Thundercat on Creativity, Positive Mindsets & Finding His Sound

26:48And I was like, I'm a boy. It was a real thing. It was a real thing. Kamasi would probably tell some stupid stories, too, of what he had seen growing up. And so, I don't know. I got called sweet cheeks all the high school at the most violent high school. The most like Locke High School. Like there was like my graduating class was like 20 people. Yeah. That's not a good thing. Even if it was well versed in many things like music and the arts and this. You know, having a graduating class of 20 people, like, you know, and just getting called Sweet Cheeks from 9th to 11th grade. And you could hear it.

27:25It was one guy that was like, I was afraid for my life. Other than joining a Crip Gang, I didn't know what I was supposed to do. I was like, I am not Sweet Cheeks. And I would turn, am I, is, do I, is my, do I look like my name should. And I was, but I was so used to that. So I was just kind of like, I knew not to let it bother me. Yeah. You know, and by that time I was already touring too. So it was a part of me that would be like, sir, you say what you may, but I am going to Germany next month. You will be hanging out behind the school at a liquor store. Like, you know, know your worth. I mean, maybe that's what.

28:01There you go. There we go.

28:03Romesh Ranganathan:We got there, didn't we? There we go. We got there. Know your worth. Yeah. Come on. This episode is brought to you by Tilda Rice, the UK's favorite rice brand. So my idea of a perfect Friday night is curry at home. aubergine, curry, big pot, loads of sauce, proper basmati rice. It's a ritual in my house, the kind of meal that brings the whole family together and turns staying in into an actual event. Some people go out on a Friday. Good for them. We've got a curry on. But here's the thing. If you're going to make it properly, the rice actually matters. And that's where Tilda comes in. They've been at this for over 50 years.

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29:54Romesh Ranganathan:Can we talk about your fashion sense a little bit? Yes. Well, I'm sure. First of all, you've seen Ben. You've seen John. You've seen myself. You guys look pretty snazzy, I might say. It's embarrassing. This is really sorry. But, you know, when you dress, what's the best way of describing how you dress? You've got your own look. It's an extroverted fashion sense, I would say. Well, I mean, your shoes have got toes. I just thought I should bring that into the photo. Really good. So when you see people that are dressed like the three of us, do you think, come on, guys? You know? There's so many ways you could express yourself.

30:38Romesh Ranganathan:what the fuck are you doing? You can be honest with me, we're unoffendable. Why'd you bring us into it? By the way, of the three of us, I'm the most, I mean, at least I've got this bit of colour, but John's in all black, like he's, you know, he's staffing a six-form drama thing.

30:57Romesh Ranganathan:What I'm saying is we're quite normcore, aren't we? You know, I think that's fair to say, isn't it? Like it's offensive to someone like you, isn't it, the way we're dressed? No, no. No, no, no, no, no. I honestly believe that. You it's a chance to express yourself. Right. I was, you know, again, like I said, the way I grew up with my parents and said things and I grew up at it like, you know, when it was when you could have an arts middle school or like, you know, programs or this. that was very encouraging to be yourself. And even when I would see like a lot of my heroes as musicians and stuff, it was very much like be who you are, you know, express, you know, and I always have this feeling like, you know, she's going to leave either way it goes.

31:43So it's just do you, man. I just genuinely believe like I think I remember some earlier moments, like, you know, I'll joke with my mom about it where, you know, like I would be in the backyard, you know with a helmet on it was a toy it wasn't oh man that was incriminating um no but like you know like i would i would always be into the aesthetic of things i think it partially comes from the illustration you know and like when you see like a lot of your favorite heroes or like when you see you know the colors in cartoons and stuff um i would always process it i wouldn't see a difference i wouldn't see like a a line between sonic the hedgehog and myself i would be like i am sonic the hedgehog yeah

32:28Romesh Ranganathan:you would so so you would happily get the same shoes as sonic the hedgehog absolutely um and i think that when i first got introduced to uh uh uh the moments of my like learning about myself was when somebody told me what to wear and i would be like no or i would like i would again here we go this is why i say it's important to learn chuck jones bugs bunny and daffy because growing up as a musician or, you know, growing up in, growing up in church and playing jazz, you know, there's always like this notion of like, you know, the aesthetic that comes with it. So at every formal event, somebody wants you to dress formal, like from that to like put a suit on because, you know, like it looks respectable or like, you know, when people, you know, we want it to be like, you know, it's got to, and I remember it's, I feel like there's a video of the first and last time I ever wore a suit.

33:21I was like, it's like Catalina's Bar and Grill with the Kamasi and the, you know, there's the one video of me wearing a blazer. That's it. That's the one. But it was, it started with my music teacher in high school, Reggie Andrews. And he would always be like, okay, this is a formal leave, you know, something. And I hate it whenever somebody would tell me what to wear. You know, it's one thing when your mom and dad do it, you know, pull your pants up, you know, sure. But it would be like, you can't tell me what to wear. And it was one of those things where I can hear you. I can hear what's supposed to happen.

33:53I don't want to do it. You know, I was like, you know, no, no. And even when it comes to how I would approach playing bass, it was kind of like everybody would always want me to play upright all the time. You know, it's like, don't get me wrong. Absolutely. Practice play upright. But I feel like that's not where my road was supposed to stop or end, you know, with these restraints that people will put on stuff. so sometimes things would um left alone in my own vices i would show up in a fucking cape so mr andrews every now and again would be like why are you wearing a leotard but at least it was

34:28Romesh Ranganathan:black yeah you thought you're getting in that but then would you would you ever be too too shy to wear something like is there anything now that you wouldn't like are there things that you think i would wear that if i had more courage to wear something like that no i've always lived in it Really? I've always lived in express yourself with this. Because I get shit scared. I'll buy something and then I'll try it and I'll think, I can't wear that out. Well, I mean, in a way, I think that in a way, the funny way that it exists, the world has a way of meeting you in these places. So whoever you are and how you show up with it sometimes is like, I think sometimes when people make me aware of it, like you said, it takes me out of the flow state of it.

35:12Right, right, right. Got you. But at the same time, no, I've never cared. I've always been like, you know, formal is relative. You know, it's, you know. And not when you got guys like Yoji Yamamoto walking around. Yeah, yeah. You know, and Rick Owens and stuff like that. It's like, it's relative. It's what you make it. You know, it's, I've been a great appreciator of these things forever. And I think it was instilled in me by my mom and dad.

35:42Romesh Ranganathan:It's great, man. I mean, it's worked out great for you. And I just hope we don't make you too angry the way we look. You've just put out two new songs, right? Is there a new album coming? Yeah. And the way you said yeah makes it seem like there's a loose timescale on that. Well, I think that things always change. And even like the, I mean, to be honest, yes, there's clearly music coming. At some point. Yeah. at some point there will be there has to be right yeah it doesn't have to be you could it doesn't right no you could just go rock climbing yeah and you could just whenever you feel like touring the stuff you've already done you can do that and then well i or you know i um i have been working on music i think it it takes a moment you have it it takes its own time you know and a lot of the time i think especially in the world we live in with the streaming and everything and how give it to me now or like i shut up bro where's the album it's like that's a like it's an interesting way to like but it's a good it's a good uh necessary thing at the same time because it just reminds you to stay on your you know stay focused or like keep i appreciate it you know but also like life has a way of like informing you how to move and um i think that uh It's taking the time it's taking.

37:10Romesh Ranganathan:Do you, because I just recently interviewed Jill Scott, and she's putting an album out after 10 years, right? And she was saying that she just had to go and live her life and stuff like that, and that whenever she was ready to put out music, she had faith that people were going to come to it. Yeah. Does time exert any pressure on you to put music out, or do you really feel like whenever it happens, it happens? Is that kind of... I've always looked at time as a construct. Like, I never did good with tests. Because I don't really do good in car crashes either, because I can see clearly because everything slows down.

37:51Romesh Ranganathan:Right. Nobody does great in car crashes, does it?

38:02I'm sorry if I made it seem like anybody. Like, good job, bro.

38:09Romesh Ranganathan:Listen, honestly, most of life I'm a fucking nightmare. But you know where I'm absolutely top of the game? Car crashes. That's when I'm coming to my own. I guess a good better explanation of that is like things slow down for me. When I whenever there seems to be trauma or pressure or things or stuff like that, things slow down in a way where if I had to compare it to a car crash, I can see clearly. Like I don't tense up. I don't really, my reflexes are really relative to what my brain considers fight or flight. It's relative in a sense of like, you know, like, oh, wow, you didn't duck that at all.

38:48And that's what I mean, walking through doors backwards sometimes. But I think that just also as in said processing, so does my music exist. So it is what it is where it shows up. And a lot of the time, as I've always understood, things like time, when it comes to nothing makes up for time spent, it's almost like it creates its own current. And learning to be okay with that. Because a lot of the time it's like, oh, now drop the album. It's like my best friend just died in front of everybody. And it's also like that was traumatic as hell. So it was like, cool. Let me, you know, I was like, I couldn't, there wouldn't, life had a way of telling me to sit down and be okay sitting down.

39:39It doesn't matter if there's money. It doesn't matter if there's an album. It doesn't matter if, you know, you know, like the tour, oh, we need to get this together. It's like, I had to sit with that. And from, I mean, it's like, not to make it so dark, but it's like, you know, it, that has nothing to do with an album that has everything to do with like life and learning. And from that to like the, the decisions, everything was, everything is not a point of, of, uh, exploitation or selling or like, even though it may seem that way. Um, and again, like we don't, again, knowing that we really are us as a whole are bad about letting, uh, letting artists grow old and like, or letting them change and grow or like process and learn.

40:29Cause you want, you want that microwave burrito real quick. Yeah. You know, like here's the, but it, it, it could be the undoing. It could be, again, being made aware of these things can be like insanity for somebody. And, um, to try to keep up with yourself when it comes to this, as compared to, uh, being able to sit and think and process it. That's how you got to where you are anyway.

40:57Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. We've got a little game for you that I think, I hope you like. We play it every week. It's called Misquoted. Okay. I'm going to give you three real quotes from you and two fabricated. And it hopefully leads itself to some discussion. Now, full disclosure, when we started doing this, how long ago did we start doing this podcast? Since September. Since September. So in September, I was very opposed to this. Yeah. Now I'm kind of on board with it. Okay. Is that because I, because, oh man. No, no, no. Listen, it's not, I'm not saying, you're not going to get cancelled off the back of this. Are you sure?

41:33Romesh Ranganathan:If anything, we'll both get cancelled for the Bugs Bunny stuff. It's been a great ride, hasn't it? Yeah, hasn't it just?

41:45Romesh Ranganathan:It's misquoted. So here, here's your first quote. And you've just got to tell me if it's true or false, if you said it or not. in your belief. Uh-oh. I don't give a fuck about TikTok. I'm pretty sure I probably have said that. The Times, 2024, you said that. 2024? Yeah. TikTok was around then? Yeah, and you were already angry with it. You weren't angry with it. It's even different about it. You didn't give a fuck about it. Oh, you know. What's your... Do you not like social media? Was it just TikTok in particular? Well, social media overall, it's just like everything is a... You know, everything is something on social media.

42:24Everything. It's like it's so encompassing where it's like and it's also like nowadays they're putting a modified cornstarch. What's that one thing that keep multidextrin? It's like the ingredients they're using to do it. You can't even turn it off in your brain. It's like it's, you know, it's like it's meant to be this just you can't even blink anymore.

42:47Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. And it's getting to that. And even, you know, even though that has its pluses, it's also some negatives to it. Yeah. So, you know. Are you on socials personally? Like, will you do them scroll? Oh, I think it's the inevitable. Like, my feed has got to be the most gnarliest feed. Anytime I send somebody a video, they don't send me anything else like this. It makes it think that I like stuff like this. It's like I can ruin my friend's feeds. Yeah, no, no, it's good. Fucking up their algorithm, I get it. I'm very selective how I pick and choose my battles of what stuff is but I've always felt like if it isn't fun it's the worst thing ever you know but I could own that probably 2004?

43:29no 24 2024 what year is it?

43:35Romesh Ranganathan:26? two years ago it was like fuck TikTok sure fuck TikTok man unless you're watching this on TikTok stop scrolling and check out the Thundercut episode. Okay, you're one for one. Congratulations. Here's your next one. The reason we love guys like Dave Chappelle and Jim Carrey is because they bear their soul. It's the same principle with music, especially with jazz. You're putting yourself out there. Oh, I definitely said that. You did say that. I did say that. It's even to a fault, no matter what the case is. I would think that that's something that even in comedy is a real principle where it's like if you're not being the honest who you are with it and are willing to take the tomato in the face for it you're not doing it right anyway right no i think that's true you said that in the guardian in 2020 i i think being honest is like the big it sounds so easy but it actually isn't that easy at all no yeah it's really it's really hard i do you know you know obviously i'm i'm a mac miller fan i think that that's one of the things that's so magnetic about about his music as well is just that that the the level of honesty about how he was feeling and stuff like that is is pretty it's pretty incredible you don't need me to tell you but but like you know I've seen some moments with Mac you know even when it came to interviews and stuff where like you know you see the way that the questions will be poised or like these moments and it was like even though those things were open books for him and I could see moments where it would be like good lord the world and how it would be complicated you know talking to him about drug addiction and I'll be like this good lord you know it's like he hasn't even gotten a 30 yet yeah you know and I hated to see it but at the same time it's like he poured his soul out while he was here and that's that's a complicated thing for anybody you know you you know a lot of the time of like learning to be honest about how you feel and the reality realizing like somebody said to me at one point the truth is nuanced because what the truth is to you is it is not the same truth as somebody else yeah and um navigating those things will always be complicated i think but um and everything from get you in trouble to you know but at the same time i think even my mom will probably say where it's like i would rather you tell me the truth you know and uh but it took a lot probably to ask too yeah see what i'm saying it's like it's a double-edged sword it's like it takes somebody a lot to ask so consider that with said truth when it comes to this stuff yeah yeah and i think that like again with mediums that we use like comedy and music your truth is nuanced yeah it is and And the other thing I think is, you know, sometimes when you're creating something, I always feel if you feel slightly uncomfortable about sharing it, you're probably in a good place.

46:37Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, yeah. Or if you can laugh. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Here's the next one. You're two for two. Congratulations. There is no prize, I should say. Well. Oh, there you go. I got my ramen hat. Yeah. My mom wouldn't buy me the toys because she thought I'd fucking destroy them. not destroy

47:00worship them

47:02Romesh Ranganathan:you've nailed this you have nailed this yeah so we took a quote that you said and we adapted it so the real quote is my mom wouldn't buy me the toys because she thought I'd fucking worship them yeah and I grew up in church and you know idol worship is not acceptable no and at the same time you know you know in a very interesting and truthful way that's understandable you know based on history and but that's not the again like uh that was like it's hard to see the line with i guess like a kid of a very obsessive nature you know um you know that stops breathing for a second you know like it doesn't really scream at pain or like you know yes terrifying fun shots bring up many moments my mom would have like i think she always reminds me of this story of like where uh we lived in detroit for a small period of time and it snows in detroit and uh you know i guess i would just kind of wander off and you wouldn't have to go catch me from walking in the street but there's one instance my mom always reminds me of that i'm clearly like not old enough to remember where I'm sitting out on the porch in my underwear while it's snowing and they couldn't find me for a minute but I'm just sitting on the porch and I was playing with a truck and when they came when they found me I was just still sitting but the truck is moving way slower they're like panicked like oh my god he's about to die freezing but I didn't make any noise I didn't I just sat there and was like that's handy this is fine for a parent um uh probably concerned about my hyper fixations you are you're you are obviously are thundercut how big a thundercuts fan were slash are you i mean they're seeing the original cartoon yeah there's knowing that the two reboots of it and then you know what do you think of the reboots i'm gonna say this across the board about cats in space that's uh that's not i don't think these kids are interested in cats in space.

49:07They're more interested in, you know, WAP and like, you know,

49:15Romesh Ranganathan:BBLs and depression. But you were a Thundercuts fan. Absolutely. Who's your favorite Thundercut? Favorite? Yeah. See, like, everybody always goes Panthro because he's black. I'm just like, dad off the Cosby show. My favorite... My favorite my favorite Thundercat was Jaga because he was already dead on arrival yeah he couldn't disappoint he was a ghost yeah he's like I could help you but only so much yeah and it was like he was cool I like the color it was like this weird translucent blue you know with still with said you know it was like glowing but like you know and then learning of like he was Lionel's dad's best friend later it was just kind of like crazy work so uncle Uncle Jagger.

50:05Yeah.

50:06Romesh Ranganathan:Ben, who's your favorite? Chitara. Chitara. Yeah, she wasn't. Yeah. No, Chitara was pretty cool. Did you ever see the episode where she fell in love with a pharaoh that would jump through mirrors kind of gaslighting her basically and just left her alone at one point? No. I haven't seen it since I was like, what, six? But there's the part where the realization basically that the Thundercats was just like an orange cat, Lionel, basically getting his head trapped in a bag. He's always getting caught. And then pointing a red laser at the wall, the sky. And all the cats come chasing the laser. And I think I just, I think I wanted to run in traffic after somebody said that.

50:45I was like, that is the dumbest. And also, think about it. And I was like, thunder, thunder, thundercats, ho. And then there's like this big red light comes out. Yeah. And then everybody, all the cats get. They all gravitate towards. They all get really quick. Who's mom, rather? Carpusculant. And then they just like chase the laser. Who's Mumra? No, but I mean in that... Who's Mumra in the bigger scheme of things? Yeah. Of that?

51:08Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. I don't know, maybe a car? Who represents the car? Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. The street? Okay, here's your next one. You are three for three. Ha ha! Sorry, I just... No, it's good. Got lost. Everyone tells me stop calling your cat sexy, but I'm like, she's a sexy cat. did you or did you not say that yes yes yes i did say that the reality is tron is very sexy okay you are four for four we've got one more my base is my soul did you say that or did you not no i couldn't have said that that feels like that that sounds like a it sounds like a like the album cover would be me on the beach with my base looking off into the sunset.

51:56I don't think...

51:56Romesh Ranganathan:Did I say that? No. Thank you. Good Lord. You said, my base is my crutch, but the best crutch I could have. No, I didn't. You did. 2013. I said that? 2013? Yeah. What the hell was I thinking? What was I thinking? What is that supposed to mean? Like my base is a penis? No. I think it was crutch. Crutch. Crutch. Crutch! Good lord, I mistake crutch for crutch. I was like, crutch? That's two very different quotes. Like bass being a crutch versus a crotch? Yeah. Yeah, no, bass is more than a crutch, it's more, again, it's been a tool. You know? It's never, it's like, it's like I said, it's always been all encompassing for me.

52:52I write from my bass, you know, hiding behind my bass always, you know, it's like the role, like we were talking about earlier with the role of a bass versus like, you know, the role of a bass player always being somewhere between, you know, hey, that's not a bass to like, you know, real bass players play four strings or like, you know, going, you're playing too many notes. So you just go like, it's relative to the success of what that is for you. And then at the same time, those are all points of learning and things that you shouldn't be. You should be knowledgeable and concerned about and all these things about what you're doing and, you know, and all these things like this.

53:29But good Lord, how did I mix up crutch and crutch? I mean, they're very close together.

53:34Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, they're very close together. And also there's an accent issue. You know, I mean, there's a language barrier, isn't there? Right. Listen, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast, man. It's been genuinely such an honour to chat to you. Thank you for having me. You're an incredible artist. You've been great in this chat. You know, I had high expectations you've surpassed them, so thank you so much. Oh, man. Thank you for having me. Guys, please give it up for Thundercats. Thank you so much for watching this episode of the Romesh Ranganathan Show. I've been told that some of you are watching this, enjoying it, wallowing in it, but you still haven't subscribed.

54:10Romesh Ranganathan:That's mad behaviour. You're going to miss episodes. Very silly. So follow and subscribe to the Romesh Ranganathan Show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. We drop new episodes every Monday and Thursday. On Monday, I'm here with amazing guests talking about their career, what they're up to, having a laugh with them. And then on Thursdays, I'm joined by my mum, widely regarded as the audience's favourite Ranganathan. And we answer your questions, your stories, and your family dilemmas. So I'll see you on Thursday when I'm back here with my mum, Shandy. Send your questions and stories to podcast at rangaby.com.

54:42Romesh Ranganathan:voice note or text on 07731 623 355. We genuinely love hearing from you and there's a good chance you'll hear yourself on the show. See you next time. Oh, shut up, Romesh.