Tom Allen: Gardening With Celebs, Fashion Pet Peeves & The 'Mandem'

17:18Romesh Ranganathan:One time only offer. Now, this leaves us. It's a beautiful segue into your new podcast. Oh, thank you for knowing about my little podcast. Well, it's in an age of where, you know, new podcasts are being launched all the time. Almost constantly. And frequently, they're just people sat in chairs with microphones chatting. You've gone for a very different, a different vibe. A completely different idea. Well, I did think it would be something a little different to be amongst the plants and flowers. And I did that, real ones, no disrespect, but different to your ones. Yes. But I thought being in the garden for me always makes me feel calm.

17:55And in a very noisy, stressful world, I thought, well, if I could bring my guests into the garden, I might be able to commute some of that peace, serenity to them and to the listenership at home, maybe on their way to work.

18:07Romesh Ranganathan:Do you believe in this thing? like soon after waking you go and touch grass or whatever. I do like the idea of it. I think the reality is like, oh, God, I'm late. I've got to get out of the house. I've got time to go magnetically charged, whatever it is. But I do like the idea of it. I've got time to have a cup of coffee in the garden, even in winter. It's a lovely thing. I think it does just soothe the soul. So when did you first kind of get into gardening? How long have you been gardening? Well, I'm a rank amateur, and I always say I'm an enthusiastic novice. I think that's an important thing to be.

18:43And I've been into gardening since I moved into my house five years ago.

18:47Romesh Ranganathan:What's your greatest gardening triumph? Oh, great question. Thanks. We seem to do well with dahlias. And they used to be an old school, they were seen as a bit of an old lady plant. What I've realised is I basically live the life of 85. You are an old lady. You're an old lady, yeah. I love that. Do you know what I mean? An old lady just grows some nice flowers. maybe falls asleep in front of the television, does some nice cooking, slow life, write some letters. Have you always had that vibe about it? Yeah, I've always had old lady vibes. Old lady core. I think that's what that is. Yeah, that would have been a great podcast.

19:23Old lady. Old lady core. Old lady core. Yeah. Core.

19:28Romesh Ranganathan:Not core. No, old lady core. Core. I mean, there is an account already. I'm sure there is a bit. Granny. Do you, you book mainly comedians, right? Or have you? No. No, no, you don't. So one of the things, you don't mainly book comedians. So who do you book? I book whoever I want to talk to. Okay. So it's not dictated by... And they don't have to have an interest in gardening. Because you had Rob Beckett on who... Yeah, he doesn't have any interest really. Who likes to show off about his wisteria, if you'll imagine such a thing. But yeah, I was furious because I know that... Well, I am trying to grow a wisteria myself and it's not as impressive as his.

20:04But that's part of the lesson. You go, no, this is my garden. I will make it out it will be what it is it doesn't have to be the same as somebody else's and something I just wanted to do I just wanted to bring people into the garden and see how they responded yeah

20:17Romesh Ranganathan:but immediately the vibe is different isn't it it's a different vibe I only have nice people on it's a very gentle vibe yeah it's great it's great congrats thank you for saying that now you've got your debut novel Romesh Common Decency you haven't read the brief thank you so much third book how do you know so much about my career well I'm sort of going for my guide third book first novel correct Common Decency Tell me all about it Bless you for knowing the name Common Decency It is about suburbia So I'm living in suburbia I've been doing this gardening stuff And I thought actually Even in the most mundane places Suburbia The most dramatic things can happen It's not about murder though But it is about Unusual Which is unusual Because again Podcasts are about men You really are going for different angles I'm always a contrarian You're quite a unique guy I like to go against the grain I'm a salmon Swimming upstream All the time Yeah I've always been like that, though.

21:08Contrary. Yeah. If people were like, if everyone said, oh, everyone's doing gardening. It's great, isn't it? I'd be like, no, I hate it. So boring.

21:15Romesh Ranganathan:Do you have that thing where if everybody's talking about a television show, immediately watch it? Yeah. What is that? Everybody's going, this is amazing. This is amazing. No, thank you.

21:28So, suburbia. I'm a contrarian. So what happens in this book? If there's no murder. There's no murder, but it is about the secrets that exist behind closed doors, behind net curtains and the dramas that unfold in people's personal lives. The things, the secrets they've held on to for years and how that's created who they are and how that manifests in the world around them. So do you think you'd do it again? I would love to do it again. And I would love to do it more confidently now. Yeah. And relax and enjoy the process. I think I was very keen to make sure everything tied up properly on this one.

22:05And do you think it'll be suburbs again? Because you're a big suburb guy, aren't you? Well, I do like the suburbs. And again, I think that idea of quite a relaxed, tranquil life where people have time for one another and it's a bit quieter and people don't want to make a big noise. And it's like the serenity is kind of protected. I think that's an important thing. I mean, you're the same. You live in the suburbs. I'm a big fan.

22:26Romesh Ranganathan:I'm a big fan. I like the Facebook groups. I like all of that all of that whole thing and then you know when you go and walk your dog and you see the same people all the time and all that I love all of that and you only know them through their dog name yeah yeah yeah I love all of that yeah I'm a big fan yeah that's sort of I think for a long time that's sort of been kind of rubbished a bit and I think it's actually something that we should cherish a bit more I think people I remember when I was younger the idea of suburban life just seemed so naff to me yeah same And so I'd look at my parents' life and it's really lovely.

23:03Romesh Ranganathan:And I just think I cannot wait to live my life completely differently to this. And then for a while I was all about being in the city and I'm going out all the time and all that. And then I would say for me personally, relatively early, I was like, I don't, this is not. Well, I think for a long time I was like, yeah, I'm going to live in some cool place like Elephant and Castle. Which for some reason I thought would be very cool. It's a cool name, actually. It is a cool name. In isolation, it's very cool. For people outside of London who don't know Elephant and Carlson, it might sound really lovely.

23:36And in many ways it is. Yes. But it would be very busy to live there. And actually, I realised, yeah.

23:43Romesh Ranganathan:I dabbled with the idea, Tom, of village life. You know, like going to. Wow, that's interesting. What? Yeah, go on. Because I just thought like being like a really tiny, just a little thing where everybody knows everybody. and then somebody having a party was like a huge, that would be such a massive deal. Yeah, all of that. I did dabble with that idea. Did you ever sort of explore it? I just like shops, you know. I feel like it's too much that way, you know. Yeah. And I think as well, if you live in the countryside, I always assumed you'd be quite isolated. Yeah. You live a bit away. But actually people keep an eye on you more.

24:19Yeah. You say hello to people more. But Luther put me off slightly. Oh.

24:23Romesh Ranganathan:Because, you know, there'd be like a house in the, you know, all of those sort of horror films. People tend to get sort of. There's a lot of murdering. Yeah. And I always think to myself, how has that guy got there? Yeah. You know, there's no infrastructure to get there, really. He hasn't, yeah, just popped on a tube. I don't know how the Uber not going there. No way. So it feels like the least likely place. But all of the horror films would be like, it'd just be somebody looking out the window at a field. Yeah. And then in the field, suddenly there's a man staring. Yeah. Yeah, that sort of thing is creepy.

24:52That put me off a bit. You could scare yourself. But I think there's something quite soothing about it. Yeah. But again, like my parents always used to take us into the countryside for a day out, like go for a drive. On a Sunday afternoon, we'd just get in the car and go for a drive. It's so boring now.

25:05Romesh Ranganathan:Well, my dad used to say, do you want to have a drive into the country? At night he would do it. Oh, that's... He'd like, you know, sometimes if we were... Was he murdering someone? I think so. I mean, there was... Often we'd drive out and there were some noises in the boot that weren't there on the way back. but he would do this thing where he'd like I think if they were struggling to get us to sleep he'd put us in the car and go should we go for a drive and then he would do this thing that he thought was hilarious he'd go oh my god I'm running out of petrol like on a really dark lane what are we going to do and then we'd go I'll go to bed when we get back you know oh that's nice yeah really sweet I sometimes now look back on those times which my parents did and I think gosh that was lovely but I think that tranquility is there's something about it because cities are I love you know I love London so much and it's there's something cool about having anything you want wherever you know but it does I do think it changes the what's going on like you're just it's an overwhelm overwhelm right like you're constantly interacting with stuff there's constantly images being blasted into your you know advertising every time you can't look anywhere and then the idea of just going I'm just going to sit it's nice right yeah it's really nice but I don't know if ever you have this experience I know we're a similar age but I look back on myself in my 20s and I really am angry with myself for being so rejecting of that I know and I think oh gosh my parents were just trying to do the right thing yeah be like oh let's do something like this is a nice place to be yeah isn't it nice that we brought you up in suburbia rather than somewhere really stressful and cool I know we we used to um I used to be ahead of sixth form and we'd we'd take we'd do a trip to Exeter every year.

26:46Romesh Ranganathan:And then one of the things we do, we take the kids for a walk on the moors. And it was like, it was really cool. It was really nice. But they hated it. And the reason for doing it was to get kids to appreciate the outdoors. But what you did was you hardwired them to fucking hate it for years and years and years. The exact opposite effect. They just resent it. They just resent it. Yeah, I suppose that's kids. Kids will always probably be like that. But I also think there was a real snobbery in that time, like the early 2000s towards anything that wasn't like London. Yeah. And not even just London.

27:17It was like Angel, you know, or Islington or these cool places. If you didn't live in Islington, you'd like, forget it. South of the river. Oh, I'd rather die. I only go to Soho House. And I really think a lot of that attitude is what led to the post office scandal.

27:37Do you know what I mean? There was that attitude like, oh, I bet it's like silly post-mistress. She's got her hand in the till. Oh, yes. Oh, I'll have another margarita, please. Oh, are you going to Babington House? Do you know what I mean? Oh, let's see you in Ibiza. Oh, God, I love Joe Wiley. Like, I mean, I'm conflating quite a lot of things unfairly here. And I'm not saying Joe Wiley is responsible for the post office scandal. No, but she's not not responsible. She's not not responsible. And that's the problem. I think, I think, but do you know what I mean? There was that snobbery around sort of suburban small town living.

28:10Romesh Ranganathan:This whole idea that if you're not living in a city and in the middle of it, then you're not really living. You're not plugged in. Do you know what I mean? Yes. That was the thing. And only recently did I realise that there was nothing over the wall. Yeah, yeah. There was nothing. You know what I mean? Like, I was always convinced that, like, well, when you move to London, you've been in London, there'd be this thing. And there'd be this, you know, you'd just be hanging out with Elton John and Lulu. And, you know, it's just this kind of. Those are the two. Those are the two for everybody. Those are the two people I wanted to hang out with.

28:36Elton John and Lulu, yeah. But you realise like, well, Elton John and Lulu, they're still living life. They're still doing, like on some level they're doing shopping. Even if they have it delivered or whatever. At some point they will be like, oh, what should we have for tea tonight? Let's just have a quiche. Yeah, and that's nice. I imagine, I don't know. But I don't suppose they're constantly living. Constantly in the hub. In the hub of show days all the time. I think we all, I suppose, I assumed it would be like AbFab all the time. I think I fell to realise that wasn't real.

29:04Romesh Ranganathan:It wasn't a documentary. Yeah, yeah. Now we've got a question from my mum Good Who I think might still think your name is Alan Well is that because of my surname or is it because I assume it's because I can't think of any other reason it would be Well unless she just assumed all gay men are the same Called Alan Alan Carr Yeah maybe I don't know what this question is Full disclosure Let's have a listen Hi Tom Ishanthi I love how smartly you dress You always look fantastic Thank you I know you wear Crocs in the garden, but do you think they are ever acceptable to wear out and about? And what's your biggest fashion regret?

29:52Cool, that's quite a nuanced question. I think Crocs, I do wear them in the garden because I keep them by the back door. I do have other sorts of slip-on shoes as well, though, I must confess. What do you mean? town and country slip-ons. They're available in garden centers. And they're quite spongy. Awful when wet. Awful when wet. They're kind of... I mean, they sort of look like you might be working in an operating theater or possibly you're doing a washing-up shift at the local harvester. That's the sort of vibe they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I keep them by the back door because they're just easy.

30:29And I make no apology about it. If I was wearing Crocs now, what would you think? I would never. But I mean, do you think that's appropriate? No, I don't think it's appropriate. But I would also worry about you walking around London with Crocs on because I think, well, it's lots of things on the floor. Dog shit, needles, glass. Yeah. Old. In the city. In the city. You know, that thing I love about the city. Oh, the hubbub showbiz hubbub. I would worry about you. And I'd also worry like, what if you had to run for a tube or something and you tripped over? No, this makes sense.

31:03Romesh Ranganathan:It makes sense. I think the problem with Crocs, I've got Crocs. I've also got the Adidas kind of fake Crocs, you know, the slides, the sort of like crocky kind of. The danger with those is I used to think they were completely unacceptable for any occasion, for anything. And then I put on a pair. About 10 minutes in, you go, how can I wear any other shoe ever again? Yeah, that's the thing. The comfort level is so addictive. I think, are they between the toe? I can't wear a between the toe. They're not between the toe. I can't wear those ones. No. But any other kind of. Between the toe is horrific.

31:37Romesh Ranganathan:No, they're like, just like a, and Crocs are so comfy. They are comfortable. In sports mode, you feel secure. Yes, I've worn them on a trampoline. Really? Yeah. Got them swimming a hell of a night. Crocs on. Sewer house. Tom Allen and his trampoline Crocs. What? It was crazy, Joe. Wiley was there. But would you go to the shops in Crocs? No. No, not even the end of the road. I'd feel a bit subconscious. So you're in the home domain? For me, I think I do have standards to maintain. I don't want to let the side down. I think people have expectations of me. How close is your local shop to your house?

32:21Romesh Ranganathan:Five minutes, four minutes. So you'd walk there? I'd walk there, yeah. And what's the lowest level of smartness you would wear to go to that local shop? I'm just interested in what your bottom rung outfit might be. Not a jogger. Not a jogger. Not a jogger. Maybe my casual linen trousers with a drawstring. You're winding me up? No. Okay. My mum also doesn't like me wearing those. Why? They're more of an indoors trousers. Oh, I'm not sure about those. Oh, there's linen ones. Well, haven't you got... No, I think you should wear some smart trousers. Okay. So linen trousers, bottom half, top half? I do sometimes wear a cashmere mix hoodie.

33:06Romesh Ranganathan:A hoodie? A hoodie? I wouldn't put the hood up.

33:14A hoodie? I'd love to see you in a hoodie. Yeah, it's quite nice. But what is the hood for on there?

33:21Romesh Ranganathan:I don't... On a cashmere hoodie? or any fabric I don't mind I sometimes this is really this is bad but I sometimes if I'm nervous I put the hood up I find it like a child yeah like a blankie oh like sort of in what context where would you be just out and about just out and about what because people recognise you no it's not even that I just sort of say if I'm can we talk about mental health for a minute oh god no but in all seriousness if I'm like if I'm feeling a bit frazzled or overly busy or something and I'm running about from thing to thing overwhelmed I'll probably put the hood up as a little bit of a comfort thing I think oh that's cute I think that's a normal thing that I would do yeah I think that's nice but it's not obviously it's fabric so it's not keeping the rain off is it?

34:09no is it something to do with boxing is that why they've got

34:12Romesh Ranganathan:it's an athletic thing isn't it but it doesn't serve any purpose I just realised no no but I have got a sort of uni pocket at the front it's good isn't it hold hands yeah yeah that's nice i like to do that yeah i wouldn't put anything in that pocket though because it could so easily yeah i don't i think it's useless useless it's useless it's an aesthetic thing um now one of the things i want to talk to you about is i i don't know i don't know if i'm putting a narrative on you that doesn't exist project away but you i remember when i first started doing stand-up you have always i think your career has had like a you kind of you had a a a very um quick trajectory initially and then you were you were doing very well but probably not doing what you deserve to do and then and then you had like a it feels like you had a second wind is wind is that is that a fair thing to say or not yes i think because i remember people talking about all that you everybody said about you he's absolutely brilliant he should be he should be so much bigger than he is and that wasn't a slight on how big you were but it's just like you've always been excellent but it almost felt like everybody discovered you sort of almost kind of later does that make sense like you do well i did sort of have a sort of 12 years in the wilderness i think i described it as when i didn't really know myself and i'm sort of flailing around not knowing how to approach things yeah um and um i Yeah, so I won some newcomer competitions, I think is your initial.

35:45But actually that was a blessing and a curse because then I think people had an expectation of me being at a certain level and I just wasn't. I didn't know myself and I didn't know what I was doing.

35:54Romesh Ranganathan:Do you really feel that? Yeah. And again, I suppose it's one of those things when you look back on yourself and I suppose I shouldn't be too harsh because that's just the way of life, isn't it? But I regret not being more, I wish I'd known myself better. I wish I'd sort of had more clarity on myself. I think it took me about 12, 13 years of just sort of like trying to work out what I was doing, trying to, you know, then knuckle down and actually have some sort of, I don't know. I always worked hard, but I think I just had, I just kind of just got on with it without overthinking it. That was the best thing I did.

36:24Romesh Ranganathan:I sometimes think that we forget what we liked when we're watching Stan. Because, you know, my journey into Stan was watching people that made me like really piss myself laughing. Yeah, of course. Then why would you try and do anything else? I think like, oh, that really serious person over there who seems to have done the sort of... Did you have a moment where you suddenly went, I've discovered who I am on stage? Well, I discovered, I just got quite impatient with... Sounds very kind now. I got very impatient with audiences because in Edinburgh, I would do it year after year and I had some people who came back who were so lovely that often I would walk out there in front of 12 people and they'd be like...

37:02For an hour. and whatever I did I'd be like and then this happened and then this happened and I went laughing and I just got really irritated and I said that's when I started going are you here for a good time or not?

37:18Because I was like you know because there are people who you realise go and see something like well I'm not going to laugh oh it's supposed to be funny I didn't laugh once but if you go in with that attitude you are going to have a shit time there's nothing I can do so I go in and go welcome to the And I started in Edinburgh, I would give people biscuits in a sort of bribe, but in a way to go like, have a biscuit. How are you? Nice to see you. They'd sit at the back as well, get left to their own devices. So the front few rows would be empty. I was like, no, sit at the front, sit at the front.

37:46And actually the more kind of school barmish I became. I realised that's you. That's who I am. That's like your clown, right? Well, I think probably, yeah. I'm sort of an elderly dinner lady.

38:04who's just horrible

38:08I mean yeah and when I realised that and stopped apologising for it and I was like no I don't like it when you do no I don't like it don't fold your arms or don't do that or don't and I thought well when I started being honest that was the moment that I felt most at home yeah never tell you about when I did Just for Laughs no did the gala you've done it there

38:28Romesh Ranganathan:no I've not done it I got asked to do Just for Last but they asked me to do the this is the reason I've not done it I was going to do it and then it went bust I think it was the year after I did it but every time they invited me it was to do the Browns show yeah it was it was like to do the the ethnic show I don't know what it's called Brown and Bad or something like that do you know what I mean it had some It had some name like that.

39:01I was a terrible booking player.

39:04Romesh Ranganathan:So God tell me, you did just a laugh.

39:10I did the British show. Right, right, right. From Britain or from somewhere near Britain that spoke English. Right. Yeah, which, namely Ireland. but I don't think again I don't know if Ireland famously doesn't like tea yeah yeah I don't think we're just going to put you in there yeah well okay fine but I got booked to do the gala and they're very specific about the gala and you have to do a set that you've not performed anywhere else in the world that you've you've done that you know works you have to type out send them a copy of make sure you do it I don't know you have to transcribe the whole set yeah sir then you have to go there perform it at a gig in a shopping centre where their vetters come along and watch along with the script to make sure you're doing exactly what you said you'll do.

39:57I got to the gala. The only bit I could do that hadn't been like on YouTube or on a show that would be, was a story I told about trying to buy a mattress.

40:11And very polite people, Montreal. It was so strict. They were like, you will come here, you will stand here. The red light will shine after seven minutes. I was like, so I've got seven minutes. Anyway, I walked out there, did my first joke. No one laughed at all. And then I was about to go in. I was like, I can't. I cannot do this story about buying a mattress.

40:35So if they're just going to stare at me and be like, wow, this is a British guy. A British guy. And then I just thought, I can't do this. And so I just stopped and I went, I can't do this in front of like 1 ,500 people. and they were all like and I could feel like the vetters coming out of the side and just going this is not part of what he sent us and then I just went and I just started talking to someone in the front row I said look I've come a long way I don't know what you guys want and I just started went back into my school matron bit what's your name right what do you do great so this is all this is like within abandon the script abandon the script in front of 1500 people television cameras everywhere and then they started flashing the red light to go you've done your 7 minutes get off And I was like, you can show me that red light.

41:19I don't care. I've come a long way to do this. And just did this. And then talked to them. And then just was in the moment with them. And then they relaxed. And then I relaxed. And then I did my bit about mattresses, which they kind of liked. But I thought it was a good lesson that I thought, well, you know, even in a stressful circumstance, I should stick to being.

41:38Romesh Ranganathan:Well, because when you do Extra Slice. Oh, yes. You have found. And by the way, I think you're, I mean, you know that I think this, I think you're excellent in everything you do. When I first watched you on Extra Slice, you are so good in that role that I can't imagine anybody else doing it. It's so, you've made that your own. And what's really good, and I think that, and this is kind of where the question is going, is you are sometimes so cutting to the people that come on, right? To the people that brought their cakes in. But they never ever, I mean, they might do and they might edit it out.

42:18Romesh Ranganathan:But you walk that line of kind of really taking somebody apart. But also it's affectionate. It's so, so good. I mean, what you're talking about there with like being school marmish, that kind of is what you're doing on Extra Slice, right? I suppose so. Well, again, I suppose I just sort of thought, well, the world of Bake Off is so nice and like living in a tent and doing a nice baking competition. And so it's quite fun to contrast that with being like, what's this? What have you brought? What is it? Well, that's interesting. And then, you know, and I think, well, I hope that they always see that I'm doing it in a way that's silly.

42:57Romesh Ranganathan:But that's quite, did you tell them that you were going to do that? Because there is a version of that role that goes without comment, really. You know, you could go, what have you brought? And, you know, make a couple of light jokes or whatever. Yeah. And it would be fine and they'd still be happy with you. But, you know, there's clips from that of you doing that that have gone like viral. And you've you've made what I mean is you've accelerated it beyond what it could have been. You know, I mean, it's pretty amazing. Oh, that's very generous of you to say. Thank you. I'm glad we're recording it so beautifully with this audio.

43:31but I well I yeah I just sort of I do it as well because I do like the people and I do like the fact they bring something along I think there's something quite charming very very endearing about them enthusiastically bringing a cake along sometimes on the train for hours they sat with it on their lap and brought it on the tube and they don't live in London so they don't know how crowded the tube is and you don't always get to see it and you have to just hold this Tupperware and I think there's something quite fun about well I do really love meeting them because I think there's something very sweet about them but of course yeah I could be quite like oh how wonderful but I think there's a I don't know if it's completely unique to Britain but there's something about in Britain we show that we care about people by being horrible to them like you show that you can have that sort of banter my mum's so British like that she's one of those British people I've met well she she often calls me by a different name for example so I know she loves me but I think yeah that's something that we do.

44:30You do it very well as well. You're always kind of having a very deadpan interaction with people. Yeah, you hope people realise you don't hate them. You don't hate them.

44:38Romesh Ranganathan:Otherwise. Ideally. Now, we're going to play a little game with you now that we play with everybody. How posh are you, Tom, before we get into this game? I know you've talked about this a bit, but like... Not as posh as I seem. Could you feed me these grapes?

44:58his grapes don't seem to come with a feeder um no i'm not as posh as i seem um my parents from from my parents from south london yeah and um and i went to a comprehensive school in bromley yeah with rob beckett yeah he's a few years younger than me yeah and so but i always had

45:19Romesh Ranganathan:this posh voice from being a kid really yeah did you watch something that made you want to sound Posh. I don't know. I know. Sorry, for the audio listeners. Yeah. Do you do this as audio as well? Yes, yeah. Yeah, we do the visuals and the audio. Yeah, we do the same. Sure, I get it. I know the words. It's a visualized. Visualized, auditory experience. Experience. And one of the things that everybody knows about podcasts is when people eat on them, you don't ever get any complaints. No, people love that. They love it. They love it. They can't get enough of it. I can't wait to eat a strawberry. We did an episode where we ate some Marmite.

45:57Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, yeah. And I might as well have said I endorse child slavery.

46:09Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, really? Oh, yeah. It was... Why don't they have some fucking consideration? For the people that are listening to this. Yeah. So my My family are all quite normal London, I suppose. They tell me off for saying that they're call-bliming, but they aren't far off being call-bliming. Yeah. So you don't know. It wasn't a deliberate thing. You don't remember as a kid going, do you know what, I'm going to lose how I talk. No, not consciously. I don't know if it's a gay thing. Maybe it's I lay everything at the feet of being gay. Yeah. Why were you late today? I'm gay.

46:46Why did your hair fall out? Because I'm gay.

46:55Yeah, that sort of, you know, I get to use it a lot as an excuse, but I don't know if it's a gay thing or being different. I did always like Kenneth Williams growing up, so I suppose he had very London parents who did not understand why they had a plummy-voiced kid. But I think it happens a lot. There's a few of us, I think, that are. I think that I get messages from people all the time who say that they're the same. or they have someone in their family. It's not as unusual as people might think. I mean, yeah. People compare me to Stewie Griffin. I'm not quite as malevolent.

47:31Romesh Ranganathan:So this game's called Misquoted. Who's she? We've got five quotes. Can I just draw me? Yeah, please do. The D 'Urbervilles. Did you do that book at school? No. Oh, now this is a podcast to discuss Thomas Hardy.

47:50I've always thought that I thought that the Romesh, Rank and Nathan show the visualized podcast with the phallic mics they are gonna love discussions of late Victorian so this is very Tess of the Deverfields is it? well no there's a bit where Tess ventures into the local manor house and the lord of the manor it's a sort of it's a sort of pseudo-sexual scene where he eats Strawberry in front of her And she I think she eats it as well Anyway Long story short She ends up pregnant And it's a sad story What can you say That's Thomas Hardy for you That's Thomas Woman much missed How you call to me Call to me Did you do it?

48:29No Did you do tracks As part of your GCSE English? No we did Of Mice and Men Oh no tracks was the collection of poetry No No Oh you did Of Mice and Men Yeah We did Pride and Prejudice And there In Explains a lot Yes

48:45Romesh Ranganathan:My English teacher I do think was slightly prejudiced. OK, so let's play misquoted. So we've got five quotes. Yes, yes, you're just checking on my drips.

49:02Romesh Ranganathan:It's misquoted. Sorry, you wanted to do your little quote game. Five quotes. Some of them you said, some of them you didn't. Your first quote. Did you say this or did you not? I was always very snooty and snobby which is strange in a four year old I think it was in my first book well okay do you think you said it? yeah it sounds like that sort of thing you did say it, it might have been in your first book but you said it to Attitude magazine in 2020 when I was promoting my first book oh there you go, makes sense have you got less or more snobby do you think? oh more but not about snobby things, do you know what I mean I'll be kind of what's a good example I like to I'm trying to think in what ways I'm snobby I'm not snobby no no I just like to cherish nice things yeah you actually you're not judgmental with it are you no I don't think so I hope not no I like the idea of afternoon tea but I don't like it because of how we can all trip each other up with getting it wrong I just like the idea afternoon tea is good isn't it I say that actually I think yeah of course afternoon tea afternoon tea I've actually never had an afternoon tea oh right like I've never been to I'm sure there'll be members of our audience for the second it might be helpful to you know for their benefit not mine obviously I know what it is you want us to explain on afternoon tea that'd be great yeah as I understand that is real podcast producing isn't it for the audience yeah for your macho audience the last thing they were like oh yeah we got given a voucher for afternoon tea I gave it I said to my wife take your sister I don't want to go I'll tell you what we won't have to explain on this podcast a line am I right so afternoon tea and I have been I've been playing with my nose but that's only because I've trimmed my beard today and a bit it's tickling do you think you don't think I came in here on doing cocaine I hope no I didn't think that but now I do it was such it was such an elaborate explanation and of course I was doing this and being very hyper because I was trimming my nose hairs it wasn't my nose hairs it was my facial hair oh your facial hair right okay do you clip or scissor on the face yeah uh clip okay I use well no yeah no I just use a bit I've realised how I pronounce your moustache is these days I'm doing this play of course so I have to have this for this what do you think honestly well I thought it really suits you okay my children are calling me Apu

51:31Romesh Ranganathan:they keep asking me when I'm going to open the quickie mark

51:39Romesh Ranganathan:so that's what I'm dealing with but I was going to and also you've had your hair done yeah this is also play oh right is it gelled it's it's actually a hair cream miss those days you used to slick it back right yeah when I used to be like Noel Coward I used to think I was like Noel Coward what did you use for that actual broil cream yeah yeah nice broil cream It's actually disgusting though. I used to use, did you ever come across black and white hair wax? I think I'm, yeah, I think I have seen it. I remember like going to her hairdressers and the barbers and the guy said, please, go on, with this crap, hairdressers, salad.

52:17Romesh Ranganathan:There's a fucking legend going to a hairdresser, I don't think so. I was at a barbers, he's using shears, rusty. Most people there not even like needed a haircut, just there to talk. He said to him, I don't have a spray, just spat into my hair.

52:36Romesh Ranganathan:But he said to, he goes to me, I use black and white. It'll ultimate control. He goes, but you will have to wash it out with fairy liquid because normal shampoo won't get it out. And he was right. Who was your hairdresser? Annette Newman.

52:52Romesh Ranganathan:So there you go. Okay, here's your second quote. You're one for one currently. I first went to the Chelsea Flower Show in 2021. And since then, I've discovered the dark side of horticulture.

53:05Romesh Ranganathan:I think the first bit I said, the second bit I don't think I said. That's absolutely correct. You did say the first bit. You said it to the Westland Garden, Spring, Summer 2025. That newspaper, before me, Imelda Staunton had been on the front cover. Really? And then it was me. And hundreds of thousands of copies they make. It's a great thing to do. You should do it. Okay, I'll think about it. You're looking for some promo. I haven't got a quote of that standard, though. The actual quote was, I first went to the Chelsea Flower Show in 2021 and since then, the gardening world has been so welcoming, so happy.

53:37Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, you have to be upbeat, don't you, in these interviews? No, they have been very welcoming. Okay, well done, you two for two. Garden, Chelsea Flower Show, for a non-gardener like me, is it worth a visit? I've never been. It's fabulous, but I would say also the other RHS gardens and their garden shows that they do around the country are equally lovely. Well worth going to any of them. Yeah, well worth it. And I think it's just nice because they, a bit like I say about gardening, it's just an excuse to stop and slow down. Okay. Here's your next one. You're two for two. You can't be afraid. You just have to be vulnerable and show yourself as you really are.

54:13Romesh Ranganathan:Though I always keep my clothes on. I think that's the sort of thing I'd probably say. Tried to say something profound and then thought I should put a little punchline in it. It's horrible that, isn't it? As a comedian, you sort of go, profound, profound, profound. I'm going to undercut it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you don't want to be boring. No, absolutely. On the mic 2014. I beg your pardon? On the mic. What is that? What is that? Something you did in 2014. Okay. It sounds like it's a podcast, but it wouldn't have been, would it? It's an interview you did on the mic.co.uk. In 2010, Attitude magazine called Tom Allen a gay role model.

54:49Oh, yeah.

54:52Romesh Ranganathan:It must be the name of the feature. Oh, maybe. Tom Allen's on the mic. Probably a lapel Knowing how fussy you are Okay I don't like those face ones I never have success with this Have you ever tried Because Susie Ruffles Is using that Yeah Susie's using one And apparently she loves it She says she loves it She's got a joke about it It allows you to be Yeah you can be A bit more of this Which I I've always wanted to That's one of the things That's one of the things That's held me back What's the deal with that

55:25Yeah we'd really see

55:27Romesh Ranganathan:I just like they always crackle whenever I'm just always too conscious about them. Yeah, I feel like anything, whenever they offer a radio mic, I get nervous. Yes. Anything that involves an extra layer of complication, no thank you. I panic about it. You're doing very well at this. Thanks. Here's your next one. It's basically a quiz about me. Yeah, that's true. But not many people do as well as you have. Oh, really? Gosh, I should have listened to some other episodes. I was quite a peculiar teenager. I was obsessed with UK Garage and hanging out with the Mandem. I think It's a tough one Let me think about that The UK garage scene Was very big Where I grew up In Bromley Yeah Of course Bromley Elton Yeah Bromley's a garage hub Is that really?

56:11Romesh Ranganathan:He's looking at Nathan Said I can imagine you doing that For the mend him For the gild him It was always And I always said about like You'd be in the back of the car And you'd pull up to a roundabout And there'd be like A fluorescent sign About a garage rave Happening that weekend and you have to phone someone's mobile. I used to love that. Did you ever go to anything like that? Oh, I did go to a couple of those, yeah. Oh, really? Yeah, they were always like, it was really, I mean, I did enjoy the music, but also I was quite nervous. So I'd go in there going, you know, it feels like there's too many people in here for a venue of this size.

56:50Romesh Ranganathan:I don't know what the health and safety is on an illegal rave. Yeah, where would they be in a sort of warehouse? Yeah, often a warehouse. And I often found Whilst I'd be tuning the radio Between radio 2 and radio 3 And sometimes radio 4 The book at bedtime Or the shipping forecast Sailing by Between those The frequencies would sometimes Be interrupted by Pirate radio stations Which would always sound Like they were in someone's Make sure you get in touch 0771 68333 If you want to pull up on that one A lot of people feeling that tune Shout out to Bez Nice one man Rolling past in this Astra Okay.

57:27Romesh Ranganathan:The actual quote was... It was lovely, wasn't it? The FM dial? I actually had a show on a pirate radio station. Did you really? Yeah. It was like Ranger's Hip Hop Hour. We operated out of Serviton. Above. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I did it for about a year. Never got caught? Never got caught. No. We did it. Actually, we stayed. I think famously, if you want a pirate radio station, you have to move around. Oh, yes. We couldn't be bothered, so we just stayed above the blue India in Surbiton for about 12 months. Had about seven, eight listeners. Okay, here's the actual quote. I think I said the first bit, but I didn't say the last bit.

58:07Romesh Ranganathan:Yes. I was quite a peculiar teenager, obsessed with Victorian and Edwardian people, and thought of myself as more suited to that era. Yes. Mandem. Guardian 2023. What? Not that long ago. What does Mandem mean? Just like people. Just people? Yeah, yeah. The people. The mandem The mandem Yeah I always think you should I think you should try And fold it into your Into your vernacular I would like to fold it Into my vernacular And not make any reference to it Well the thing is Like try it in a sentence now Um Oh gosh Like something like I don't know I'm going to the Chelsea Flower Show With the mandem Gosh I went to the Saturday Of Chelsea Flower Show There were so many mandem It's good I think it worked It's fun I think it worked Yeah Gosh Oh you should have seen The queue for the you should have seen the queue to look at the RHS shop the mandem, absolutely love it

59:06Romesh Ranganathan:it's great, it works it does work doesn't it yeah, I think you might be my favourite person I've ever heard say it really? yeah, yeah, yeah I'm trying to think now, another thing I could say about the mandem Radio 4 it'd be a nice show on Radio 4 wouldn't it yeah, the mandem Yeah. The shipping mandem. The shipping mandem. The mandem forecast. Yeah, yeah, there you go. There you go. Okay, here's your final one. I've tried to fit in with heterosexual society. Like once I went to a football match, but someone called me mate and I thought, no, thanks. I did say that because that did happen. That happened.

59:41You know, and sometimes the thing with football is it's all very chummy, isn't it? You have to get along with it. You can't dip your toes in the water. No. You know, if somebody who didn't go to musicals very often went along to a musical, they would have a good time. They would be welcomed in the audience. But if somebody who doesn't go to football very often goes to football, it can be quite uphill.

1:00:02Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, I would say there are gatekeepers. Very gatekeeper-y. If you're having a conversation about musicals. Thomas Hardy. Yeah, or Thomas Hardy. If you don't know a lot about it, people are excited to tell you. Yes, exactly. And recommend, you know, what you might want to go and see and what you might want to read. If you go to the football and you are not, you know, couldn't name the first 11, you're in trouble really, aren't you? You really are in trouble. You know. The first 11 mandate. Yeah. I'm going too far. I'm using it too much. But I think you're absolutely right. But are you slightly into football now?

1:00:38Well, I quite like it, yes. I've been to some matches and people have been inclusive and kind to me. Although my friend Mark, it was a few years ago, asked me to go along with him to cover football matches for Sky Sports.

1:00:51Romesh Ranganathan:Yes, I remember this. Well, I didn't know how many people watch, how many man do, and watch Soccer Saturday. Yeah. I think it's, I just thought it was like. It's a lot. It's millions. Yeah. Like seven million people have it on. Something like that, yeah. And also very chilled. As I found out. Because I just thought this will be fun. Yeah. You know, like you and Rob doing Rob and Romish versus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. you might go and do a role in a theatre show. And that's very entertaining and very endearing, very amusing. People love to watch that. Me, doing it the other way around, stepping into the football world, just having a go at commentating.

1:01:24For example, describing when somebody fell over and everybody booed. And I said how unkind I thought that was. Because he might have hurt himself.

1:01:34What was the response? I didn't think many people watched it. I opened my phone. and I was like oh because it was the days when I would check social media a bit more and I was like oh oh you know have you ever had you know when it'd like break like you can't give up with the numbers and it was a lot of very kind words and people had enjoyed the sort of irony of me being there the light you know mickey taking the skewering the light skewering but so many people were like I can't get back I can't get back Like, well, I thought they were trying to get gays into football. Why are they trying to get this one?

1:02:11Why are they trying to get somebody who knows something about football to do it? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, just put me off gays. I didn't even mention being gay. It wasn't time.

1:02:28It's horrible, isn't it? It was extraordinary. It was a very interesting experience. but seeing how many people love football in such a sort of simplistic way, the irony was lost.

1:02:42Romesh Ranganathan:No, I do love football, but I do think there is something about, you know, heterosexual men in particular who use it as like, as a proxy for sort of, you know, emotion. You know, like you can get angry about this. You can make friends through this. You know, you can talk passionately about this. And it feels like it's something that you can be really enthusiastic about without being called a fanny, you know? Absolutely. I do think that's part of it. That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's the same thing like with belts. Belts and a waistcoat. It's the same people. I don't know. I'm generalizing.

1:03:19But I do feel like it is that. It's like, yeah, I can care about this one thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I can cry about this and it's fine. Oh, I'm getting tearful and can't, you know, can't bear the success of a neighbouring team. Yeah. Can't bear it, can they? No. What is it? I mean, they've got, what's the difference? I mean, you don't know an Arsenal works in Woolwich Arsenal. Because what, they're not, do you know what I mean? Isn't that how they all set up those teams? They're like different workforces. Yeah. That hated, obviously hated each other for some reason. Yeah. But it's not like that, is it?

1:03:49It's just not fun.

1:03:50Romesh Ranganathan:No, it's all, I mean, it's now it's all fake. It's all fake. Yeah. Yeah. It's all a bit of fun. Yeah, you're holding on to a legacy of some hatred gone by. And I do think we should hold on to that. What is that Sam Fender lyric? Hate begs to linger. Something like that. Yeah. 17 going under. I love that song. I don't really know. I'm not really across Sam Fender. Well, I just listened to him recently. Okay. Don't be into him. He'll go far. Final question for you. What do you think of these microphones? I think they're okay. I think if they pick up this out, then they're doing their job. and it's all any of us can ask.

1:04:26That is all any of us can ask. They're a little bit in the fucking way.

1:04:31Romesh Ranganathan:Give it up for Tom Allen, everybody! What a lovely time. Thank you so much for watching this episode of the Romesh Ranganathan Show. I've been told that some of you are watching this, enjoying it, wallowing in it, but you still haven't subscribed. That's mad behaviour. You're going to miss episodes. Very silly. So follow and subscribe to the Romesh Ranganathan Show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. We drop new episodes every Monday and Thursday. On Monday, I'm here with amazing guests talking about their career, what they're up to, having a laugh with them. And then on Thursdays, I'm joined by my mum, widely regarded as the audience's favourite Ranganathan.

1:05:06Romesh Ranganathan:And we answer your questions, your stories and your family dilemmas. So I'll see you on Thursday when I'm back here with my mum, Shandy. Send your questions and stories to podcast at rangabee.com. Voice note or text on 07731 623 354. We genuinely love hearing from you, and there's a good chance you'll hear yourself on the show. See you next time. Oh, shut up, Romesh. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster Zero Ultra. That's the OG. It kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian, Sunrise, and Vice Guava.

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