Harry and Meghan's Photogate

0:01Kim Kardashian breaks her silence over the Harry and Meghan photo gate drama, what Prince Harry can do about his stalker crisis and Meghan gets a standing ovation at Sundance. I'm Jack Royston, Newsweek's Chief Royal Correspondent, and this is Newsweek's Royal Report. Hello listeners and welcome to the show. Now, Kim Kardashian has said that she hated the way that a particular drama or crisis with Harry and Meghan played out in the public domain back in November. So what happened was Harry and Meghan got invited to Kris Jenner's 70th birthday party in California. It was at Jeff Bezos's mansion.

0:39It was a massive James Bond themed party, like huge names there, your Mark Zuckerbergs and all these tech people. And obviously some stars from the entertainment industry too. It was kind of a big moment for Harry and Meghan, I think, that they got the invite to such an A-list party. And then the Kardashians started putting pictures all over Instagram and somebody, the penny dropped that it was Remembrance Weekend in Britain. and so all of a sudden the pictures disappeared, the ones that contained Harry and Meghan, and it turns out they'd been deleted, and then it turns into this big hoo-ha because there was a suggestion from a briefing to the media that the Sussexes had not actually given authorization for the pictures to go online and hadn't signed a kind of release form, and then the Kardashians started saying, you know, briefings came out from their camp saying there were no release forms, and it turned into this big drama.

1:33So now Kim and Khloe Kardashian have actually been talking about this on Khloe's podcast. This is the first time that they've actually been on camera talking about this whole thing and how it unfolded, which is quite interesting in and of itself. You know, this is what happens when the royals suddenly come into contact with the Kardashians. Stuff that would normally never get spoken about on camera suddenly is being spoken about on camera. So it was the Khloe in Wonderland podcast. for those who don't know it it was chris jenner's 70th birthday she looked fabulous by the way if you haven't seen the pictures um and this is what they said um so chloe they were talking about something else and then chloe just said megan markle which is quite funny as well that they used the name that megan doesn't like she prefers being the duchess of sussex or she sometimes calls herself megan sussex um and then kim said oh the photogate from mum's 70th so she's calling it photogate.

2:29So they obviously do have some difficult feelings wrapped up with this whole experience. Kim said it was really innocent, which is so crazy. Mupp and Megan have been friends for some years now and they have a really sweet relationship. We took a photo and then I think we were all going through them. We're all on, you know, communicating about like what we're going to post. We're never ones to post without permission. That's not who we are. So they say that, you know, very respectful. And Kim says we have the craziest, funnest photos from that night and we're just posting fun photos. Chloe makes the point of saying that they were dignified photos.

3:04So there's a little bit of defensiveness. They're kind of light and breezy with how they discuss it, but there clearly is defensiveness in certain places, which is quite interesting. And so Kim says, we were told that it was totally cool to post. And then after it was posted, I think they realised it was Remembrance Day and they didn't want to be seen at a party, even though it's already up. you know, and then taken, the photos were taken down. And I think they realized like this was so silly. So basically, yeah, I mean, I think that is the reason. The reason is because there was obvious, it was a really obvious clash between the kind of tone and atmosphere in Britain at the time on remembrance weekend.

3:46I mean, remembrance actually like the November just passed was a week long thing really, because Harry did some remembrance stuff midweek. he visited Canada even and went to Remembrance stuff there and he did this like essay that was I think it was called something like it was basically a love letter to Britain basically he did this big essay saying how much he loved Britain and how great Britain was and how brilliant the banter is and that's who he is and he's not going to apologise for it and so he did this big like love bomb charm offensive on Britain and then the actual Remembrance Weekend came around this party was on the Saturday and then the pictures were everywhere of them kind of partying on the Sunday, I believe.

4:28And so Kim said, or Chloe said rather, they did go to Baby to Baby, which is a charity, a gala that they did in LA, where there were obviously like accredited photographers there who were very clearly going to photograph them. And Kim points out, well, that's a charity event, so it's a little bit different. And so she said, we took them down to respect Remembrance Day. And then you just got to laugh at the situation sometimes and just lighten it up. And she kind of suggested that they should have made a joke out of it and done like a skims campaign and then pulled the photos and then made a bit of a joke.

5:00Like, you know, this is us pulling photos again. And then she ran wrapped up by saying, I hated how that was received for everyone. So obviously she hates how it was received for Harry and Meghan too. And she says that sucks. It was just made into something that was so crazy and ridiculous that it just didn't have to be. And that is ultimately what I think of it is that it's crazy to kind of, I mean, you know, the whole royal reporting world and the way that things happen with the royals and palace is bonkers. but when it's the actual palace making slightly unreasonable requests it's a little bit different for celebrities because you know they get called by like a royal aid from you know kensington palace or buckingham palace and they kind of know the deal that this is an institution that's steeped in tradition that has rigid ways of doing things and they know that you know if you you either want to be caught up in the kind of glow the warm glow of monarchy and its reputation or you don't and if you do, then you do have to jump through some hoops.

6:00But if you quit the palace and it's just you and your kind of, you know, uh, your advisor, your PR person, like you're not being treated in that way anymore. You're being read as another celebrity. And I just don't think any other celebrity would do that, would try and take back photos that were already in public domain that didn't show anything particularly scandalous anyway. All it actually showed was Harry and Meghan, you know, kind of going over and hugging Chris, Jenna, and just doing what, like, you know, you go to a party to party, right? Like nobody goes to a party to sit in the corner, you know, praying for the soldiers who died in war, like that, you know, you either go to the party or you don't.

6:41It's a binary thing. And if you're going to go, then obviously you're going to be partying. What else would people imagine you were doing at a celebrity party? So when this all broke originally obviously like i said there were briefings to both sides and um you know people were one of the organization or one of the news organizations that um ran stories basically saying the sussage camp um didn't agree to have photos of them taken uh inside the party and shared like that is just a crazy thing to say because it's the kardashians the one thing they are famous for is living their entire lives in the public domain and having you know having no filter basically like they yeah invited reality crews into their lives so just don't go like if you don't want that then don't go but if you're gonna go you have to meet them where they are and um you have to embrace who they are so obviously back when all of this unfolded back in november um the people were one of the news organizations that ran these kind of brief background briefings saying uh you know no agreement had ever been signed or whatever to have photos taken and released.

7:50And they actually said that they had checked, that the Sussex team had ticked no on a photo consent form. And then that went down kind of weirdly because a counter briefing came out of the Kardashian camp saying that there were no consent forms, like there weren't waivers that were given to people. So therefore that couldn't have been right. So that definitely felt like it was a conflict and not just a confusion. and then yeah like obviously silence for a while and then now the Kardashians have gone on the record to talk about it but you know one interesting thing about this is that it's such a burning of a bridge like and it's such a way to burn a bridge in such a visible kind of context where other celebrities will be looking at what happened and thinking gosh you know I wouldn't want to be in the middle of something like that I mean you know Kim said she hated it.

8:44She hated it for them as well as for herself. But it's still like a yucky feeling that you don't want to come away from inviting somebody to your mum's 70th birthday and come away with like a yuck, icky feeling about them being there. And so it's such a way to burn bridges in America and burn bridges in California. And it's really interesting to me because it's this really binary choice. Like what is more important to you? Landing the right tone for Remembrance Sunday in Britain or landing mixing with A-listers in California and they chose Britain. And it's so illuminating to me, not just because it was a binary choice, Britain versus America, but also because it was in the context of like a real conscious, planned out, thought out PR campaign to land like Harry's relationship with Britain and with the, you know, his record as a veteran and all of these things.

9:37So what you have is Harry was denied his police protection, you know, or he lost his police protection lawsuit in May. He, you know, hired a new UK-based PR man to replace a previous UK-based PR man, Liam, who, you know, took a new approach to things, was like really, you know, switched on, came out of the blocks fighting for Harry's reputation, particularly in Britain, engagement with newspapers in Britain that Harry and Meghan traditionally blacklisted, like the Sun and the Mail and those people. Harry visits the United Kingdom in September, and visits all his old charities who he worked with when he was a working royal, when he was back at the palace.

10:16And then November comes round, and he goes to Canada to land the fact that he shows up for remembrance. He goes to Canadian remembrance events, and then he writes this big love letter to Britain. And it feels like it's all part of one big campaign for harry to get his uk reputation back and then this kardashian party kind of you know poisons the well and say they're forced to choose like who who do you know which path do you want to pick and they picked harry rebuilding his relationship with britain versus like a-list exposure among the some of the biggest names in america like it's not just that the kardashian family is a really famous name and that they've got a really strong kind of like celebrity brand but like some of those big names from social media were there like obviously harry doesn't necessarily like these people like mark zuckerberg probably hates them um because of you know his concerns about online harms which are valid in my opinion but it's just such an interesting thing see another example of harry choosing britain over america like where he's hosting next year's victor's games is another one the two the shortlist was between washington dc and birmingham which is the second biggest city in England.

11:25And he chose England over the center of power in America, the country that him and Meghan moved to. And it just still keeps this same idea percolating in the back of my head that Harry, I just can't get out of my head that Harry and Meghan might be planning some kind of a move back to Britain or a greater relationship with Britain or more time in Britain or something like that. And there was another example this past week, which was Trump obviously was making big noise about Greenland and saying that he wanted to annex Greenland again. And he got into a really tense situation with Keir Starmer, where he was actually, having previously described Keir Starmer as a friend, he started getting quite hostile with Starmer on a number of points.

12:10And he said this thing about NATO countries, so not just Britain, but Britain being a NATO country, were not guaranteed to pull their weight if America needed the help of NATO. And they would say that they fought in Afghanistan, but they stayed a little back from the front lines. That's what Trump said. And it caused a massive stir in Britain. Britain has kicked off about this issue before when J.D. Vance said something similar. and it was like a match lit the tinderbox. Even Reform, which is the furthest right mainstream political party, were kicking off about it and getting upset with Trump.

12:52And because Britain, the sacrifices of almost 500 British soldiers in Afghanistan during the Afghan war, it means a huge amount to Britain. And Harry, a question was asked of Harry's team whether he wanted to say anything. This is the kind of thing we ask a lot. often, you know, when there's a massive, big international news story, there's not anything the royals can do or say. But on this occasion, Harry came out swinging and he went in pretty hard. Like he didn't say the name Donald Trump, but there was obviously zero doubt in anybody's mind what was being referred to. And I'm going to read you what he said.

13:28So this was a statement, it was given to Newsweek and other news organisations from Harry. And he said, Thousands of lives were changed forever. Mothers and fathers buried sons and daughters. Children were left without a parent. Families left carrying the cost. Those sacrifices deserve to be spoken about truthfully and with respect as we all remain united and loyal to the defense of diplomacy and peace. um so that is a snippet of a longer comment but making it really clear that he thinks trump's being dishonest like which is a big thing to accuse the president of the country you live in of being um and part of the reason it's such a big deal i mean i should say that trump did backtrack and there was also a briefing that um he backtracked after trump after king charles wrote a letter to him expressing, or like conveyed via diplomatic channels, the King's concerns.

14:24Also, Keir Starmer spoke to Trump about it and made representations. So before I move on and forget, let me just quickly read you Trump's backtracking. And he said on Truth Social, the great and very brave soldiers of the United Kingdom will always be with the United States of America. In Afghanistan, 457 died. Many were badly injured, and they were among the greatest of all warriors. So Trump did, like, he didn't apologise for his comments, but he laid it on really thick that, you know, Britain is a key ally and partner for America. And he said, you know, among the greatest war warriors apart from Americans.

14:59So he basically, you know, presented it as America is number one and Britain is number two. So clearly some recognition from Trump that he should, at the very least, should not have allowed Britain to get caught up in that comment. But it's really interesting because, and this is something I've spoken about before, there was this issue back in 2024 where a lot of pressure was being put on Trump by an organization called the Heritage Foundation to review Harry's visa and his right to live in America on the basis that Harry had talked about taking drugs in his memoir, Spare. And Heritage was suing DHS at the time.

15:34This was before Trump got elected again, obviously. So this was under the Biden administration. And they were saying that there must have been favoritism in order for Harry to get into America, or Harry must have lied on his visa papers, and whichever option it is, they were kind of insinuating Harry should not have been given permission to come to America, his visa should be reviewed and should be revoked. That was very clearly the undercurrent of the whole affair, was them saying that Harry should basically be kicked out of America. And so then, in fact, I'm going to read you, Sam Dewey, Heritage's lawyer, said, if he lied, that gets you deported.

16:11People are routinely deported for lying on immigration forms. Now, you know, immigration experts told me that's actually not quite as straightforward as that. And ordinarily, DHS wouldn't deport somebody unless they had a conviction, or at least were being prosecuted for drugs offences. But this is what heritage were putting forward. So 2024, March, Trump does an interview with GB News. He's being interviewed by Nigel Farage of the Reform Party that I mentioned earlier. And Farage asks Trump about it. And Trump says, we'll have to see if they know something about the drugs. And if he lied, they'll have to take appropriate action.

16:50Farage says, does that mean Harry not staying in America? And Trump responds, oh, I don't know. You'll have to tell me. So classic Trump, kind of vague, but clearly leaving the option open that he might deport Harry. Now, this is all March before the November election. back in 2020, Harry and Meghan campaigned in a big way on, you know, well, actually, they tried to sail under the radar, but they were very clearly campaigning for Biden, basically. They would say they weren't, and they made a load of neutral comments. But, you know, Meghan did a jumped on a kind of voter registration drive for Michelle Obama's backed initiative.

17:28When all women vote. It was targeting black women. Nothing wrong with targeting black women and trying to get them to vote. But obviously they vote in greater numbers for Democrats. So the act of telling black women to go out and vote is bolstering support for the Democratic campaign. So it was thinly veiled. And Meghan said, if you're on this call, then like me, you just want to see the change we all need and deserve. So change in the context of a presidential election is evicting the incumbent and voting in somebody else. So they tried to kind of cover it as neutral, but it was very clear that they were basically backing up the Democrat campaign, the Biden campaign.

18:07So Trump got annoyed with them at the time and made some comments saying, you know, he's not a fan of Meghan. And so the anticipation was, will Harry and Meghan do the same thing again in 2024? And with the threat lingering in the background that Trump might revoke Harry's visa. So they didn't. They kept their mail shut. They didn't really campaign. They didn't kick up a fuss. And Trump did not revoke Harry's visa. And so, you know, there was never any definitive confirmation. But the received wisdom at the time was that these two facts were connected, that Harry and Meghan had kept their mail shut because they were worried that Trump might try to get his revenge, as he is known to do.

18:44and that Trump didn't start messing with Harry's visa precisely because Harry had not tried to get him to lose the election, not campaigned for Kamala Harris to win, despite Meghan being on the record as liking Kamala. So what then do we read into the fact that Harry has now come out swinging and basically piled in on Trump? Well, he has again chosen Britain and his relationship with Britain over the security of his US life. Given the option, he has chosen to take a stand alongside the veterans who he served with, including friends of his who he knows, who, you know, lost limbs in Afghanistan and who are living with lifelong consequences of the sacrifice they made and the service they gave to their country, to Britain, but also to their allies, to America.

19:35You know, it's a very personal issue for him. And that is, you know, sufficient justification on its own to want to come out and do this. But it is interesting to me, nonetheless, that actually it is another example of choosing Britain over America, risking the future of his US life in service of showing up and defending Britain. but I do want to emphasize really unambiguously that if this is very personal for Harry, he served in Afghanistan, he killed Taliban from the controls of Apache, an Apache gunship he was the co-pilot gunner he also directed in his first tour he was a forward operations controller I think it's called basically he directed planes into bomb Taliban positions, including Americans.

20:27Like he was working alongside Americans, presenting targets for Americans to bomb. He talks about it in his book Spare, if anyone wants to read it. So a hugely personal issue for him. But again, it's another example of Harry being confronted with a binary choice to choose what's the most important thing for him. Is it Britain or is it America? And he chose Britain. And because of a number now of circumstances when he's done this, I just kind of get it out of my head that Harry is betting everything on Britain and seems less interested in his US life. And I don't necessarily mean less interested in living in a wonderful mansion by a beautiful ocean, beautiful beaches in California.

21:09And I don't mean not caring about Meghan. I just mean his professional life in America doesn't seem to excite him anymore. He seems to be feeling this magnetic pull back to Britain. Right, I'm going to take a quick break, but before I do, just a reminder to follow me on X. I'm at Jack underscore Royston, and you will find all my latest stories for Newsweek. And when I'm back, Prince Harry has a big problem with a stalker.

21:39Welcome back to the show. Now, Prince Harry was obviously in court last week. He gave evidence in his trial against the mail where he's accusing them of phone hacking. But there was this whole other separate drama playing out from the public gallery, which is this woman turned up in court to watch Harry's evidence, to watch his case or tried to, who keeps popping up and is known to this bit of the Metropolitan Police Service that deals with fixated people. So she is a fixated person who is obsessed with Harry and who just tries to turn up all the time. Like when Harry visited the UK back in September, she was turning up at charity events that he was doing.

22:20She's turned up, tried to turn up two days of his court case against the mail. And this is causing significant concern for Harry and for Harry's team. And one particular event, which was back during the September visit, one of Harry's staff who was military trained had to actually like body block this woman to try to stop her from getting in close physical proximity to Harry. Now, so far, all the discussion has been around her. I mean, in the British press, that is, but it's been around her and it's been around Harry. But I cannot help thinking that another part of what's going on in Harry's mind quite probably must be, like, what does this woman think about Meghan?

22:57Like, how does she feel about Meghan if she's so fixated and obsessed with Harry? Like, could there be, you know, one theory is, could she do something horrific and unthinkable to Harry? But there's also, you know, the question of whether she could do something horrific and unthinkable to Meghan. Now, not to in any way diminish the threat, but we think that she is kind of like a Sussex fan rather than a Sussex hater. Now, I don't say that to mean she's not a threat. I just say it because a lot of the conversation around Harry's attempt to get his police team reinstated has been around the threat from the far right, from neo-Nazis, or alternatively from Taliban sympathisers who don't like the fact that he served in Afghanistan.

23:38So she doesn't fit into either of those categories, which doesn't mean she's not a threat. It just means that we're talking about something slightly different. And so what we're talking about is the unpredictability of fixated and obsessed people. They can present themselves as fans. They can think they're fans, but their emotions can be incredibly intense and can pivot off into any kind of crazy direction. And you don't know what they're going to do, basically. So, obviously, it's a big problem for Harry. It's becoming, this woman is becoming the centrepiece, basically, of this new phase of his campaign to get his police protection reinstated on trips to Britain.

24:19So, obviously, Harry sued the home office, sued the British government to try and get his police team reinstated. They had been taken away from him back in 2020 when he quit the palace for a new life in America. And then he wanted to use the courts and his lawyers to try to see if there was some way to force the government to change course. And that failed. He lost. He filed two lawsuits, lost them both, then went to appeal and lost that too in May. So we are already at the point where, you know, that avenue has been exhausted. Harry has a new attempt now, a new phase of this campaign, which I think is more about persuasion than trying to throw expensive lawyers around.

24:57And Harry wrote to the new Home Secretary, Shabana Mahmood, back in September, appealing for a new threat assessment, something called an RMB risk assessment of the threat posed to him. And we still don't know what the outcome of that is. It's been conducted over December and January. But this woman has become like a big fixture of that rhetorical PR public facing campaign to say that Harry needs a police team. particularly if Meghan and the kids are going to come to Britain. So I've been thinking about this a lot. I have a lot of sympathy for Harry. It must be scary knowing that somebody has that level of intensity about them.

25:47These things do also happen. He's not the only one. There are other people too. And sometimes there really is a limited amount that can be done about it. And that's scary. But I had a chat with a security expert whose opinion I value and who I think, you know, switched on and knows what he's talking about. He's called Alex Bomberg. He works for an organisation called Intelligent Protection International. He actually, at one stage, used to work for Kensington Palace. He was an aide to the Duke of Gloucester. But at the moment, he does private security. And so I put it to him, like, let's say, let's just war game the outcome that the Home Office say no.

26:23You know, let's say they just say, no, you can't have your police team back. Is there anything else that Harry can do? So we discussed the possibility of a restraining order. And Alex said he probably should consider getting one, but it is a difficult decision to take. He said, you know, the way they're probably looking at it is they probably don't want to inflame the situation. So what this is about is a woman who right now has not done anything crazy. She's just trying to turn up everywhere that Harry goes. But, you know, it's something he basically said. he probably should consider a restraining order.

26:59I also spoke to a source close to Harry's security operation, who we've given anonymity to, to allow them to just talk openly about this, who told me that this woman is known to the Fixated Threat Assessment Centre, which is a joint operation by the British police and also the NHS, the National Health Service, because it's a mental health situation. And that basically, yeah, she's known to them and also to royalty protection to RASP, which is the Metropolitan Police's Royalty and Specialist Protection Command. So this is my source told me, the more interesting question here is why, given she was, is known to FTAG and RASP, wasn't she removed from court by them?

27:42The answer is because there was no police presence in court. Restraining orders are an element or part of the tools they can deploy against fixated threats, but they are often not enforceable because of mental health issues. That's why FTAG is operated as a specialist joint unit between the police and the NHS. So basically what the source driving it is Harry needs his police team back so that the police officer is there to deal with these threats as they, as they arise. Um, which is, I mean, I, I simultaneously find it kind of in a way slightly frustrating, but also have a lot of sympathy. I mean, there are other celebrities who experienced this.

28:19A TV presenter in Britain called Holly Willoughby had a really awful time. I'm not aware of her actually being given, um, round the clock police protection, although there was a police intervention, someone was arrested and prosecuted for a really horrible, um, plot to, uh, to harm her. And it actually led to her quitting as a, as a celebrity, as a, as a TV host off the back of it. So, you know, this stuff does happen and it has to be taken extremely seriously. And you cannot assume just because somebody is a fan and, And, you know, a woman, like, let's be honest, that they're not going to go out and do something unthinkable.