Netflix Says No More As Ever

0:01Meghan Markle's as ever splits from Netflix, new emails turn up the heat on Beatrice and Eugenie and the tabloid journalists who say they partied with Prince Harry. I'm Jack Royston, Newsweek's Chief Royal Correspondent, and this is Newsweek's Royal Report. Hello listeners and welcome to the show. Now, Meghan Markle wasted no time telling her fans just how big a deal it was when Netflix jumped on as a partner of her As Ever lifestyle online shop. And she said it was so huge, such a huge deal. Now, though, it has all come to an end. So we've been told the kind of briefing to the media is very much that this was a mutual decision to part ways.

0:42It's all kind of slightly complicated, though, because Netflix owned equity. They actually owned a share of Megan's business. So that is obviously a slightly more complicated uncoupling than a simple partnership. So I wanted to get the basically the best analysis in the business of what this means for Megan. And one of my favorite people to talk to on these kind of subjects is Nick Eade. He's a brand and culture expert here in the UK. And for those who don't know him already, he was actually the only voice who successfully predicted that Meghan and Harry would sign a first lick deal with Netflix back in the summer.

1:16So, Nick, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me. Good to see you. Indeed, indeed. Right. Well, look, let's start with your first impressions of all of this. Like, what do you think this means for Meghan? Is this potentially a good thing? You know, the briefing coming out is that this is going to allow her to go global. Or do you see this having a positive impact? Or is this kind of rocky territory for her? I think it's, you know, pretty rocky territory. And the fact that, you know, this deal that she's had wasn't particularly that long. So you really feel that, you know, you want, you know, look at someone like Shonda Rhimes, who has a massive deal with Netflix.

1:48That's going to last for so many years because there's lots of faith in that person. And I feel what the issue is now, the Netflix have lost faith. I feel I lost faith in Megan, lost faith in Harry, and lost faith in the brand as ever as well. And that's what the issue is here. It feels like this kind of all got a little bit sour, to be honest. And that's obviously after Spotify went sour. It ended with Bill Simmons, the Spotify executive, calling them grifters. They did one 12-part series archetypes for Spotify, and then it all fell apart. Some of Megan's other projects, The Bench, The Children's Book, there was a lot of noise about it when it came out.

2:26It didn't launch her into a career as a children's author. They remain kind of strongest on stuff connected to the royal family. And, of course, always keen to leverage connection, you know, kind of the symbolism of Princess Diana and her life. But we have this question that's been hanging over Meghan and her relationship, particularly with the American public, that will she be able to form a new bond that has nothing to do with those royal ties? I think, listen, I think Meghan has got a huge fan base. And there's a lot of people who really do like her, bought into her. I think I've always talked about this.

2:59It's about authenticity. And I still feel that she's kind of still trying to find her feet. One minute she's in Paris as a fashionista, you know, becoming one of the biggest stars during that time in Fashion Week last year. And now she's not doing anything in fashion, but actually she's seen as a bit of a fashion icon. So maybe that should be a route she goes. One minute she's a domestic goddess and everybody thinks that she's the perfect person to make some jam. and she sells it, but it doesn't sell particularly well and it doesn't really go down so well. So I think people are really not too sure exactly what she does and what she does best.

3:33And that's what's going to be the biggest problem for her. And the American people always want to embrace people. They want to embrace somebody like Meghan, you know, and they've seen what she's been through. They empathize with her, they sympathize with her, and they love this part of sort of Americana that's got this royal spin to it as well. So they want to kind of champion her, but I don't think they know what they're championing anymore. And that's the biggest problem. Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? So the fashion has always been brilliant. I think, you know, Megan's always looked great.

4:00Her style has gone through some slightly different permutations over the years. I think, you know, her big glam outfits, kind of evening do's are incredible, but she also does a great line in those kind of softer, you know, beige colours in her, you know, in with love, Megan. But like you say, it's very interesting. This whole project, as ever, was supposed to be the online shop tied to the Netflix show with Love Megan. That partnership, that first look deal is still ongoing. But I was reminded this week of something that you mentioned to me months ago, which is that ideally you would have wanted that Netflix series to really be showcasing the actual products that as ever were selling.

4:43So you would want to switch on the TV, watch an episode, see the jam, see the kind of limited edition honey, see all of that stuff. And beyond the flower sprinkles, we didn't actually get that many of her products into the show. And I suspect that the reason why that happened is because of the timings. Basically, the Netflix deal was due to run out last year. They knew it was going to run out last year. They did two seasons and the holiday special filmed entirely within 2024 and As Ever was not actually ready at the point that they filmed all that content. So by the time As Ever was then rushed out in 2025, I mean, clearly it wasn't ready because they didn't have enough stock.

5:22So she probably missed out on a load of sales purely because she didn't actually have the produce in store. But also, you know, we didn't get that branding on screen. Do you agree? Like, is that a timings issue, do you think? Or was that just a swing and a miss? I think it's a timings issue. But I think that a lot of things were missed in that because, you know, obviously now she's bought out chocolate. She's also bought out wine. And there was a missed opportunity there to really engage in the viewers on Netflix to understand a little bit about the history of why Megan likes her wine. Maybe going to see her actually go and choose the grapes.

5:54You know, all of that kind of stuff that you'd expect when someone was building a brand, we just never got to see. so like you say we got to see sort of a home cooking show which is okay with some sort of i'd say b-list celebrity friends who some of them weren't even her friends coming to chat to her and none of it felt like it was cohesive at all you know one thing that she did do on her social media was actually use instagram to kind of they shared shopify for some of the clothes that she wore and that actually did well for her at the time but again that wasn't consistent you know people who buy into influencers or buy into somebody they want to have the shopify for every week they want every outfit she wears they want to be able to emulate and buy you know whether they want to buy a steal or they want to buy the actual item that costs a lot of money it doesn't matter they want to feel that they're part of that person's life and that's one of the biggest problems here is that you know one minute you're you're sending a wine next minute you're sending a chocolate next minute's fat flower sprinkles but there's nothing behind it to really give it that's a gravitas and i think they wanted the show to be like that they wanted the show to say this is the new martha stewart this is somebody who's a great homemaker but you can't be martha stewart and also do it in not even your own home and it's kind of it just felt very disingenuous and i think that's why maybe it didn't really um you know people haven't bought into the brand as much they should have done or could have done let's talk about some of the pr framing here so So the way it was presented was a mutual parting of ways.

7:23You know, Megan's quite happy because she has full control of the business at a time when this now means she can take it global. She felt that the Netflix team were too cautious and that they were holding her back. But she's still great friends with Ted Sarandos, the chief executive. So two things arising there. First of all, what do you think of this very slight, slightly veiled criticism that they're holding her back? And then also, how do you uncouple two businesses when one owns equity and the other? Well, I think first of all, to say that Netflix is holding you back is, like you say, is a thinly veiled criticism in the fact that actually they know exactly what they're doing.

8:05and they've built this billion pound business, which understands exactly how they're going to drive their brands. And they know exactly which brands are going to do well. And they're doing extremely well by making Stranger Things shows. They're doing Netflix house. They're doing, you know, some brilliant experiential stuff. I think to say that they're holding her back, maybe that she didn't feel that they were giving her enough publicity. They were maybe obviously didn't give her another show, which meant that she couldn't really push the products. And that's probably where it was for her. But I do think potentially that's quite damaging because obviously they're a much bigger monster than she is and they've got so much more power in doing so.

8:43I think, you know, for where she goes now, I mean, I can imagine that she probably did want to do more products. You know, it's kind of interesting to see that they bring out a tiny little bookmark when you think actually there could be some really great things you create, whether that's fashion items. You know, when I first heard about the actual products, I was told that it was going to be a whole raft of kind of household products. And I think we all saw that because they're all patented and trademarks, but none of that's happened. And maybe that's what she's saying, that actually she did want to release those, but they have thought there was no demand for it.

9:17So why should we do that? Yeah, indeed. I mean, maybe she will still do some more fashion stuff. I mean, the bookmark I did think was also like it's a beautiful bookmark. It's actually available cheaper in Britain. I just, everything is priced so high that I struggle to see what I would be a regular shopper for, what I'd be a regular customer for. I could well believe that if I was living in America, or let's say when she goes global in Britain, I will buy something off her. But right now I think she's got these kind of almost hampers where you get like a couple of boxes of tea, a jar of honey, a candle and a bookmark.

10:00And it costs you something like$170. And to me, that's just such a huge amount of money for something that is predominantly really a curiosity purchase. Yeah, exactly. And also, you know, although it's got the kind of a bit of a heritage, you know, you'd much rather go and buy something from Dutch Originals or go to Fortnum & Mason or Harrods to have that kind of feeling of grandeur. And that's the difference between this brand. And I think the other thing is interesting too, is that she's gone into wine and wine obviously is extremely lucrative. If you look at somebody who's done extremely well is Kylie Minogue.

10:32She sold 25 million bottles in six years of her wine. She's understood that the assignment is all about being passionate about it, being somebody who's actually, you know, Kylie Minogue, for instance, will actually put in her handbag bottles of wine and take them to various different restaurants and get people to stock them. She's so passionate about her business and it really shows with that amazing amount of sales. And that's what you think about Megan. You feel there's the idea that I'll do it, but actually she doesn't really follow through. And when you're a really strong entrepreneur, you want people to be having your sources.

11:09You want them to be having your jams. You look at Eva Longoria. She's another great example of a woman who's entrepreneurial, but she has this tequila and she literally will take the tequila everywhere. because she wants people to buy it and know about it. And I feel with Megan, it's all held back and kind of contrived. Yeah, so basically she's got to get it out there because Kylie Minogue, you know, the wine is stocked in supermarkets. And Megan, you basically, you have to buy through her. And obviously also just selling in America at the moment. So I want to read you some numbers, Nick, which come from SimilarWeb.

11:46So SimilarWeb, they can't tell you sales data. We don't know the sales data for Megan's business. But what they can tell you is footfall, like online footfall on the website. So this is for as ever. February, she had a bit of a dip. Her traffic went down by about 20%, but she did 213 ,000 visits, which is up from what she was doing in the autumn. but you know america represents quite a small portion of that under 40 percent um the united kingdom is uh it seems to be about 12 percent and canada 10 australia 10 so i can definitely see looking at those numbers why is she wants to go global but what do you think you know you must know more about these kind of things than i do is that going to give her the kind of audience base that she needs to make this business a success?

12:37Well, that's the thing, you know, I think obviously in the UK, she's extremely polarizing person. So, you know, you don't know whether that's going to be a really big demand. And if you're going to be opening up to a territory like here, it might be that for, you know, a few months, there's that sort of, I don't know, the idea there's a little bit fun, a bit of a, you know, spend your money on it because it's something you can collect, et cetera. But it's all about repeat purchasing. And that's one of the big issues here is like, yes it's still a bit of a a fun project and a fun product but is it something you're going to buy regularly is it worth it etc so i think that's what she has to think about you know i think obviously going to australia what she's going to be doing is a great way of sort of opening up potentially to that market but again she's got to gauge whether these people are just going to buy once and then that's it um yeah i think that's that's the biggest issue here is that you know we look at products as kind of gifts, but there's only so many gifts you can buy.

14:00and is earned on funds swept to program banks, boosted up to$150 ,000. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC member FINRA SIPC, not a bank. Yeah, totally. And it's then going to be presumably heavily seasoned or in the run-up to kind of Christmas and so on. The other thing here is, so Netflix are leaving, presumably, you know, trying to see through what is probably a fairly legitimate attempt to spin this as a positive moment. You know, everyone does PR. I'm not going to get sanctimonious about that. But Netflix presumably are pulling out here because they didn't think that they were going to be making money.

14:36And if the business was rolling in millions and millions of dollars, Netflix would not pull out at a point when they were actively making money unless there was some kind of get-out clause that Megan had built into the contract that allowed her to regain control of the business. Is that plausible? Do you think Netflix will have made money here? Do you think they'll have given this fair stake in the business back at a loss or a profit? I think Netflix would have made a lot of money when it came to the Meghan and Harry documentary. That was a huge hit for them. Back in 2022. Yeah. But as now, I think they must be making a loss.

15:17And they probably are thinking to themselves, actually, what do we do? How do we navigate this? We've got other IP, which is making us a lot of money, but we also have to give this a bit of time and we've given it as much time as we want to. So it's now time to actually part ways. I mean, I totally agree with you. If you've got equity in something that's making money, then why would you spit? Because you want to be making money and Netflix is that what it's all about. It's about content and financial gain. So I think there must have been something in it for them to decide that actually it's probably best for them to part ways and to do it in this way makes it sound quite strategic rather than basically cutting their ties with them.

15:58Yeah, indeed. So we think Megan's going to move into Australia, into the market in Australia, but she's also obviously going on a tour of Australia coming up. So what's your perspective on that? Do you think that's, you know, presumably that's a golden opportunity to actually market this business while she's overseas? Yeah, I think this tour is going to be really interesting because all eyes are going to be on them. I think all eyes will be on her. We've seen that she's going to be doing this live podcast recording. That's a great opportunity for her to talk to a captive audience all about her brand, her product, whether that's going to expand, etc.

16:32So I feel that she's probably going to be testing the waters to see whether actually there is this demand for her brand. But also, is there a demand for Megan? You know, people buy into brands because they like the person. They buy into them because they're aspirational. They buy into them because they feel that they want a little bit of their life when they're waking up in the morning and drinking their tea or whatever they're doing or wearing their clothes or spraying their fragrance. so it'd be really interesting to see whether there actually are big crowds of people whether this you know really converts into actual interest in Megan or whether this backfires we just don't know but I think for her this is a really important point for her to be standing on her own two feet and really driving her business forward yeah indeed so one question I have for you is um we've seen various kind of different versions of Megan say there was the kind of social activist this version that we were first introduced to.

17:28And then she built on that with this kind of, you know, all the Royal bombshells were still kind of within that lane because it was all about the kind of historic issues with the monarchy and race. And then the reinvention as a lifestyle influencer was obviously a total rebrand. And I guess my question is like, is there a finite number of times that she can do this? So let's say as ever doesn't work, going global doesn't work. she doesn't manage to kind of make loads of money moving into fashion and she then has to go back to the drawing board again will she be able to like it does there come a point when audiences just won't want her to reinvent herself again well i mean if you know i knew megan right at the beginning you know in the uk and i was friends with her and you know when we used to talk about stuff you know she was very much about the take it was all about kind of that lifestyle brand it was emulating the Gwyneth Paltrow group vibe.

18:23So that was very much her from when I was friendly with her. And to see now as ever and how that's sort of evolved, it feels that that's actually the most authentic part of her. But what's actually missing is when she had the TIG, that was something that was kind of written by her. So it's like a blog basically, but it had her personality. And we just don't have that with the as ever brand. You know, when you go on the website is quite contrived it feels like a copywriter's written it and you really don't get to know that person and i think that's what this there's a massive disconnect here so i think yeah you're right obviously she has sort of had all these different um iterations of megan you know we're probably on megan 2.9 now and you know and all of them have been her authentic self but none of them have really sort of gained people's real trust um so i think it's going to be really interesting to see where she goes next so those things fail then you know she can always go back and be an actress because that's what she's up to and it could be something that can be very lucrative you know where she is going to be appearing in a new movie i think that's coming out this year which is going to be quite interesting as a cameo role but you know she might decide actually i will go back because you know people would want to go and see megan markle on the stage somewhere uh and that could be a really great way of of reinventing herself i I think the other side of her is, does she, you know, you know, do another, do a hurry and write a spare and actually write her version of that story?

19:53Because again, you know, that will make her a lot of money and a lot of people want to read it. But again, does she want to push that narrative? I don't know. Would you, if you were advising her, would you tell her that was a good idea or? I think there's a difficulty there. Their life must, they must spend a lot of money. You know, living in Montecito is extremely expensive and living in California and just having the life that they have. They've got to make money. Now, the money isn't drying up, but the money is potentially depleting because of these deals aren't going anywhere. And if the big money deals aren't there, there's going to be a time when they have to sit and go, actually, what do we do?

20:26And then if I was chatting to her, I'd be like, well, actually, maybe it's time for you to write your book because this is your side of the story and people would like to know it. And that will be very lucrative and keep her fame alive. so um what do you think is holding her back from putting more of her personality into her work do you is it just basically the fact that everything she does just gets pummeled in the media like i don't you think that maybe has just had a kind of it's it's eroded her ability to be herself or um do you think there's something else going on i mean what yeah you obviously you know you knew her what you knew the version of her that came before so what yeah what do you think i think it's I personally think it's a real shame that her personality hasn't really come out particularly well.

21:10I think that she has got a lovely personality and she's a really good communicator and a very compassionate human being. And none of that feels like it's really come particularly out or feels like it's very contrived. And I think that might be and I think what's happened is that all the PR people who've worked with her have left. And that's because they probably haven't been able to get that out of her. um i think having the authentic voice that she needs is going to be hard for her to find but i do think there's enough people who want to actually hear it but i do think it's it's a case of just being really honest and kind of forgetting the pomposity that i feel that she's kind of um attributed and created around her and actually just be a grassroots person who goes i'm a californian girl and you know and this is my story uh because it is an amazing story and actually if you if you if you go back and think about this whole journey of megan markle it's actually fantastic and it is this kind of not cinderella story but it's wonderful and it all kind of has kind of come to criticism and you know we're criticizing her in whatever way but also we've also got to realize this is a human being who's actually done a lot of good and and can do a lot more of good but it just is to find that authenticity and find the true person that's the most important thing for her yeah no i agree 100 i mean i've had many points when i've sympathized with her hugely they're also quite frustrating people because the potential is huge and we're just going through another cycle of it just not really working out and some of their opportunities have been so incredible i kind of feel my perspective on megan is i think she just needs to get herself into a set of circumstances where she cannot help but be herself so maybe that's like filming over several weeks with a crew who just have the cameras taping the whole time or maybe it's doing some kind of you know challenge that like is so you know like i don't know like climbing a mountain or whatever something that's so physically exhausting that you can't you know you get to a point where you can't it's not possible to be contrived anymore but i think what audiences would love to see from her.

23:23My personal perspective on public figures, celebrities in the public eye, is that audiences do kind of perceive them almost like they're fictional characters. And in fictional characters, what we really want is to see them go on a journey where they change. They experience something and then are changed by it. And I would love to see Megan do something that instead of kind of trying to monetize the life she's living through the lifestyle brand, just do something that's inherently interesting inherently fascinating that's not putting all of the burden on her personality but where she can almost like louis through when he's doing one of his documentaries just go into something and come out of it changed by what she's seen and experienced i think audiences would warm to her more if they could feel like they were witnessing her go on a journey yeah completely i think you know that the issue is that we just see these tiny little glimpses of glimpses of her and her life and so we don't really understand what's really going on whether that's from her babies through to her motherhood through to you know her family life and it just feels like we don't get like you say the 24 7 the 48 hours you know and that that's it's it's interesting and i know i've done a lot of writing recently about parasocial and the way that people sort of live their lives through celebrities that they see on things like instagram etc and the problem with megan is that you know, other with a star like a Kardashian or someone like a Molly May in the UK or, or who even Moira Higgins, who just was part of the traitors, you know, you feel that you can actually live a bit of their life because you see it on their social media.

24:55But with Meghan, you just don't because it's all completely curated. So none of it feels authentic. So you don't feel that you empathize, sympathize or care. And that's one of the biggest problems. So I completely agree with you. It's really just stripping it back and finding out who that real person is and actually just, you know, having, have feeling that you've got a relationship with them. Nick, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you very much. And on that note, I'm going to take a quick break, but just a reminder to rate and review the Royal Report on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your favourite shows.

25:28And of course, we are now on YouTube. So if you're watching there, don't forget to like and subscribe. And when I'm back, the Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor scandal may be spreading.

25:41Hello and welcome back to the show. Now, Princess Eugenie this week had to stand down from one of her charity patronages. She's parted company with Anti-Slavery International, which she's been with for about, I think, seven years. She was the patron. She was probably that most high profile celebrity supporter, only royal supporter. and it's a huge moment really because this is the first time that either Beatrice or Eugenie has really experienced kind of concrete reputational damage from the fallout of Andrew, their father's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Obviously, we used to call him Prince Andrew.

26:18Now we call him Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor. But this has also taken place at a time when actually some of the questions being asked about Andrew are expanding beyond his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. into areas that relate to his whole wider engagement with his role as trade envoy and whether he might have been committing, I suppose, misconduct in a public office on perhaps a bigger scale than the Epstein files initially suggested. Because, of course, everything that's in the Epstein files, everything that we got in that massive trove that was just dumped on us in February, all of it was via predominantly Jeffrey Epstein's email inbox or maybe Ghislaine Maxwell's or, you know, perhaps some material that the FBI had got themselves.

27:08But either way, Epstein was the conduit into all of it. So all of Andrew's other relationships with business, you know, businessmen he met as a UK trade envoy and all of those other connections that he had, you know, none of that's going to wind up in the Epstein files unless Epstein was the go-between. And so what we had this weekend was the Mail on Sunday running a story about Andrew trying to get a very rich man called Jonathan Rowland to pay£50 ,000 to each of Beatrice and Eugenie as part of this kind of deal, a bigger deal, to pay Andrew£300 ,000. And it's not totally clear exactly what that's for.

27:50But the Mail on Sunday has been reporting that Andrew actually took Jonathan Rowland around on some of his overseas trips as trade envoy, plugged perhaps some of his business interests. They say, you know, a lot of this is based on emails that have been leaked to them that we haven't seen ourselves. So to some extent, we have to trust that they're reporting it all accurately. But it does appear that Andrew was trying to get this money paid to his daughters. And so that then begs the question, why? You know, what on earth would Jonathan Rowland want to part with£300 ,000 for? You know, he presumably must have expected something in return.

28:23So what was it? and the obvious argument that the Mail on Sunday is putting forward is that what they wanted was access and they wanted Andrew to amplify their business interests. And so that brings with it, obviously there is that allegation in and of itself which has the potential to be damaging in and of itself. But obviously it brings with it this whole wider question of where does it end? We know that Andrew had a lot of business connections. I've seen emails from the Epstein files where Andrew has made reference to sending something to Epstein, but also said, I've been passing this around my other contacts.

29:03So we kind of knew that some of the documents that he was sharing around were not just going to Epstein. And so what Thames Valley Police are actually investigating in relation to Andrew right now, it's investigation into a criminal allegation of misconduct in a public office, which arises out of a report to them from Republic, which said that Andrew was sharing confidential government documents, confidential trade envoy reports with Epstein while he was a trade envoy that he should not have been sharing. The implication being that he was leaking. He was leaking confidential documents in a manner that could even potentially have been a threat to UK national security.

29:47Now, all of this with Epstein in particular was going on at a time when Fergie owed huge amounts of money. And we know that Epstein helped her to pay some of it off. And so now we have this additional piece of the puzzle that it would seem that Andrew was also trying to broker some money being paid to his daughters. And so that has the potential for the first time to tarnish Beatrice and Eugenie's names in a really concrete way. it's very important to say at this point that we don't know whether the money was ever paid to them. A source close to them told the mail that then they don't remember these payments being made and maybe we'll go and look back over some of their banking records to see if they can work it out.