Trump's Bizarre State Visit

0:01King Charles welcomes Donald Trump. Prince Harry risks blowing reconciliation and Prince Andrew makes Prince William squirm. I'm Jack Royston, Newsweek's chief royal correspondent, and this is Newsweek's Royal Report. Hello, listeners, and welcome to the show. Now, Donald Trump touched down in Britain on Tuesday night ahead of a day in Windsor on Wednesday. It will go down, I think, as one of the most bizarre U.S. state visits on record. but Trump also, you know, as one of the most effusive and positive American presidents about Britain. I was actually on the radio discussing this on Wednesday night, which was probably towards the tail end of the state banquet, and I was asked about it, and I said, actually, you know, the UK-US special relationship, it really wasn't that long ago we used to talk about it, as something that Britain was obsessed by and America barely cared about.

0:52You know, America kind of vaguely considered Britain an ally, but, you know, had bigger fish to fry. But in the Trump era, he loves the royals so much that he's actually really happy to come to Britain and to be in Britain, despite the fact that in his view, you know, in the view at the very least of the kind of MAGA milieu, Britain has, as they would see it, a socialist prime minister. Now, socialists in Britain would give you a very different take on Keir Starmer, but that's another subject. So, yeah, I mean, you know, Trump's view of Britain, his very positive view of Britain, is in no small part down to his love of the royal family.

1:28And he certainly says that he loves the individuals who make up for the royal family on an individual basis. He describes King Charles as his friend and he says he loves King Charles. He says he loves William and William is so handsome and he clearly loves Kate. So, you know, with Trump, it really is. It's a love affair, not just with the concept of monarchy. but with the specific royals who exist and who we have. And so, you know, from the royal family's perspective as well, they were more than happy to give him the full treatment and pull out all the bells and whistles. And actually, I said, you know, it was bizarre, and I think that's true for reasons I'll explain, but that's, you know, largely that's because of this carriage procession, which was the cherry on the cake for Trump, and he was denied it the first time round for security reasons because that was in London, so they didn't want to take Trump out in these state coaches when they were going to be looked down upon from all these buildings.

2:22So this time round, to get around the security issue, they took him around Windsor, around the estate. So what the Windsor estate means is that he wasn't in the town. He wasn't going through the streets where the normal people are. He was going through parts of the Windsor estate that in the past have been open to the public, including during carriage processions. They went up the long walk. But that was part of the carriage procession. for Harry and Meghan's wedding, where, you know, thousands of people lined the route. And Windsor was absolutely heaving back then in 2018. But they actually closed off the long walk.

2:59You couldn't access it. I'd actually tried. And I was in Windsor on Monday and, you know, the cast iron gates were all locked. You couldn't get in. And instead of kind of fans or royalists or, you know, just interested people, tourists, Americans, instead of all of that lining the route of the carriage procession, they had members of the armed forces who were obviously required to be there. I mean, they may well have been fans of Trump. Who knows? I'm not necessarily saying they weren't. But they weren't there because they were fans of Trump or even because they were fans of the monarchy. And again, like I said, they may well have been fans of the monarchy, but they were there because they were ordered to be there.

3:38And that just seemed really strange to me. There was something about it that was almost like a little bit North Korea. You know, there's always those stories about how, you know, when people go out to North Korea, the grocery stores seem packed with food. But then when you go closer up, it's all plastic. It's kind of a little bit like that. It's like the plastic food in the aisles of the North Korean supermarket. Because, you know, and I have to say, before I carry on, I do want to say I do completely sympathize with the security perspective. You know, nobody wants to see even actually people who hate Trump do not want to see him assassinated on UK soil.

4:14And obviously, you know, there was the attempt on his life in America a year ago, and then there was Charlie Kirk recently, and nobody wants to see that happen on a state visit or anywhere else. So I totally get it with the security point of view, and I don't actually necessarily think they even did the wrong thing by creating this set piece, but it was in a way such a perfect symbol for another underlying point about this state visit, which is that it is theatre. and the reason it's theatre is because we know that Trump and Starmer see the world very differently from a political perspective and we know that many of Keir Starmer's cabinet, you know, many of the top politicians in Britain in Keir Starmer's government, you know, they're on record saying like really, really disparaging things about Trump in the past, saying he's racist, comparing him to the KKK and so on.

5:09And so we know that they're laying all of this on in order to appeal to Trump because they want the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, which is concessions on tariffs, trade, economics, maybe a bit of Ukraine, maybe a bit of Gaza, who knows. But that's what it's all about. This whole thing was all geared towards trying to get a specific pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. And that is what makes the carriage procession itself, which, you know, the whole point of a carriage procession is supposed to be that the king or the prince leaves the palace to see the people. And it's from that kind of playbook.

5:50You know, the queen used to say she had to be seen to be believed, and it's very much from that playbook. You know, you've got to go out and give the public a chance to see you in the flesh so that they can know that you're real and not just kind of a symbolic idea that's disconnected from their lives. Now, up to a point, I did expect the carriage procession to be like that because we were always told, oh, well, it will be around the Windsor estate. And so as soon as you see that, you know, well, they're not going through the town, that's obviously going to be to avoid the public. And then you're told, you know, armed forces personnel will line the route.

6:22So obviously, OK, well, that's going to be in place of the public lining the route. But I have to admit, even on the day when I was travelling down to Windsor, I did think there would be maybe like a couple of places where the public could go and try and watch a bit. Like, you know, maybe they wouldn't open the whole thing up, but maybe they wouldn't advertise that it was going to be possible, but that there might just be like a couple of places on the long walk or something that were accessible. Because they also put up these kind of security barriers, hoardings kind of things to also block off the public.

6:57So they could have, you know, had a lot of it blocked off, but still had a point at which it was going to be possible to see something. And they didn't. So it did almost feel a little bit like, you know, Charles, they had a kind of a make-believe fake audience of soldiers for Charles to kind of take Trump out to, you know, have the feel of being a, you know, somebody who's having a carriage procession without the kind of core reality of what it's supposed to be about. kind of like at Legoland, they have this thing where the kids can like drive a car and get a fake driving license. It's almost a bit like that.

7:31But, you know, like I said, maybe it's worth it. I don't know. It just feels very weird. I'm not even necessarily saying they shouldn't have done it. It just feels so bizarre. And that's the other thing as well. So we know Trump kind of upset the royals as well in the past several times. So the first one was actually, you know, he made comments not long after Princess Diana died, saying that he could have slept with her on the Howard Stern show. And Howard Stern was, you know, being Howard Stern, was obviously egging him on, and Stern probably said some of the worst stuff then. But it wasn't the only time.

8:05You know, Trump then later in 2012, actually, bizarrely, on September the 17th, the same date as the state banquet. So what's that? 13 years ago to the day from the state banquet, Trump went on Twitter and basically blamed Kate for the fact that Kate had been photographed sunbathing topless by a French magazine. Now, we know how upsetting Kate found that experience because Kate and William sued the magazine and took it all the way to court. I think that might even be their only ever actual civil lawsuit they've ever filed. William obviously took on Murdoch when he reported phone hacking allegations, but that's a different story.

8:42So, you know, it's a difficult thing that Kate went through. Trump kind of mocked her for it and said, you know, why are you doing, of course, someone's going to try and photograph you if you do the nude sunbathing thing. Come on, Kate. So I kind of goaded her over it a little bit and suggested it was her fault for doing it to begin with. And then she was sat down next to Trump at the state banquet. And there was actually this kind of awkward moment when, you know, they're all sitting down and there's these kind of footmen behind them who are getting ready, who are there, you know, their specific job is to help each person push the chair in.

9:14So there was a guy there whose job it was to help Kate push her chair him, but Trump had to reach over and kind of tuck Kate in under the table at the state banquet because she was sat next to him, which was not done specifically for Trump. They did the same thing when Macron visited and when the Korean delegation visited previously. So it wasn't done just for Trump that they wheeled Kate out to be the kind of icing on the cake for him. It is the protocol and the choreography for state visits. is, you know, the Princess of Wales sits next to the visiting head of state. But I did wonder what was going through Kate's mind.

9:48And there was this other photo as well of Trump. And he's kind of, he's kind of, you know, they have that thing about the body language where they draw a line up the kind of center of gravity of the person. And Kate is sitting straight upright and Trump is leaning kind of all the way over towards her. And there's a moment of eye contact between them that the photographer perfectly captured. And actually, you know, Kate almost does look like she's looking slightly adoringly at Trump. Trump's certainly looking adoringly at her. But I would love to know what was actually going through her mind during that whole banquet.

10:23And then in his speech, Trump called her beautiful and, you know, radiant and all of these things. Trump said, His Majesty has also raised a remarkable son and His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales. Really amazing. I've gotten to know you and you will have unbelievable success in the future. Melania and I are delighted to visit again with Prince William and to see Her Royal Highness Princess Catherine so radiant and so healthy, so beautiful. It's really a great honour. Thank you. So that was his speech. But yeah, you know, it's like it does kind of, you know, this is the thing is you just know how Trump talks about women.

11:02Like he, there was, you know, you might remember Caroline Leavitt, and he started talking about how great she was and then he got into saying something about her mouth or her lips or something like that and it all got a bit creepy. And yeah, the whole thing, at certain points, it was just a tiny bit creepy, I do think. And I felt sorry for Kate. And I have to point out, like I said, she wasn't wheeled out for Trump. It's really easy when you see these things to think, oh gosh, they've sat Kate next to Trump because it's Trump. But that's not the case. They do always sit there. You know, they sat her next to Macron.

11:39They sat her next to the Korean visiting head of state back in 2023 or four. 2023, I think. So it is it's the standard way of doing it. But obviously it does look like she's the eye candy. and you know the whole thing is kind of the emperor's new clothes trump even said on sunday and then again on monday that it was the first time it had happened at windsor castle and buckingham palace is great but they say windsor castle is the ultimate um but you know they uh the privilege those buildings are historic buildings and the reason they're so important yeah sure it's partly because of the incredible artwork and all of the kind of gold in them and all of these huge state rooms, but it's also the history that makes them special and that makes it a privilege to be hosted at these buildings.

12:28And both of them have an incredible history. And the reason they didn't do it at Buckingham Palace, they couldn't do it at Buckingham Palace, is because of the building works there, which is actually like a really mundane reason for Trump to be hosted in Windsor instead of London. But so they didn't move it to shine Trump's ego. And actually, Trump isn't the first person to stay overnight at Windsor Castle either. That was Ronald Reagan in 1982. Trump is kind of technically right because 1982 wasn't a state visit and this one is um but it's kind of like yeah it's weird two things happening at once one is trump makes everything about his own specialness and he inflates his ego at every possible opportunity um but then also this is a point you know a moment in which britain is actively trying to inflate his ego so you have in tandem these two things where trump is like overblowing minor details like whether it happened at windsor or buckingham palace um while at the same time like they really were trying to lay it on as thick as humanly possible in order to please him so it kind of is actually like it really was about his ego so that then begs the question you know will there be the payoff you know if you're going to put on this big theatrical performance all in order to tell the emperor how amazing his closer, then you're doing it for a reason.

13:45And that means you have to get something out of it. And so my big question going into this was, you know, is there a risk they're taking here? Like, if they don't get the payoff of Charles and Starmer, and if they don't get the payoff from this, and there isn't a tangible win for Britain, what does it do to their reputations in a country that really doesn't like Trump very much? Trump polls very, very badly in Britain. So was it worth it? You know, we're on Thursday now and it's early days, but just as I've pretty much started recording this, they have actually announced a deal. It's not, it doesn't look like a change to the tariff deal that was already signed, but it is 150 billion pounds potentially of tech investment into Britain from American technology companies.

14:28So like I said, it's only just happened. It might take time for the dust to settle and people to work out how good they think the deal really is. but if it is as good as they're making it out to be, I literally just watched them sign the pieces of paper, then yeah, maybe they did. Maybe they got their payoff and maybe everybody will go home, including the king, thinking that this was worth it. I have to say, though, I think Starmer will still pay domestically for this because we're living in an age where people pay so much more attention to what they can see than they do to what they read. And the way in which 150 billion pounds of investment from US technology firms benefits ordinary people's lives is slightly indirect, number one.

15:08You know, they won't necessarily immediately realise that it's come from this as it benefits them, but it also won't benefit them right away. It will take time for it to kick in. So in the short term, I do actually think there is still potential that Starmer's slight fakeness during this period will blow up in his face. And that's because it chimes with a problem that British people already have with Keir Starmer, which is that they think he's a political robot and not a real human being. And they don't feel like they can connect with a real person. They just, you know, they think he's kind of too polished and not natural enough.

15:45And so this is kind of the perfect example of that. And I'm sure that actually, you know, Starmer might well genuinely have enjoyed hanging out with Trump at points. After all, I never particularly expected Michelle Obama to be friends with George W. Bush, and yet they are. So sometimes people who are in that statesman class do put politics aside and have genuine human connection with each other. But there are a few realists and way more idealists in the modern era on both sides of the fence, actually, on both sides of the political divide. And I can't help thinking that they will still see this as another example of Starmer being kind of spineless and too eager to grovel to Trump.

16:28and that it will blow up in his face even though he did win this big prize at the end of the rainbow that he was chasing. But I would love to know more about what the royals themselves thought of the whole experience. And I'll return, I just want to describe something else first, but I'll return in a minute to that concept of actually liking people who the public don't expect you to like. But I would love to know more than anybody, I would love to know what Kate actually thought of it all. and I actually, I felt sorry for Kate. I felt sorry for Camilla too and there was one moment that involved both of them that really took off on social media and it became massive and it was when Kate kind of sidled up to join Camilla and Melania who were mid-conversation and it was just outside Windsor Castle so long before the state banquet and Kate and Melania chatted for a bit and Camilla kind of kept looking away and she looked a little uncomfortable and wasn't saying that much and then in the end she seemed to kind of like lose her patience and kind of shoo Kate off kind of encourage her out of the conversation and just kind of ease her out of the conversation.

17:28And I felt really sorry for Kate because she then went and she looked like she was nearly about to go and join William's conversation. He was speaking with Trump and King Charles, and then she thought better of it. And so in the end, she just seemed to go and stand by herself for a bit, which was slightly heartbreaking. I mean, it's almost like school, isn't it, where somebody can't get themselves into a conversation and then just has to go and stand in the corner by themselves. And so that was heartbreaking. But then, and it's tempting to think, gosh, that was really quite cold from Camilla. But then at the banquet, while Kate was being forced to schmooze Trump, Melania was sat between Camilla and Prince William.

18:07And it was another heartbreaking moment because Camilla just did not seem like she could get into the conversation. And Melania just wanted to talk to William and Camilla got the shoulder, basically. So if you think Melania's in the middle, William's on her right, Camilla's on her left. she was just turned to her right chatting to William. And Camilla was like, you could see Camilla's mouth moving as she was trying to talk to Melania. And Melania was just still chatting to William and ignoring her. And Camilla did all this while battling acute sinusitis, which, you know, I actually had really bad sinusitis recently, which is deeply unpleasant.

18:42It actually hurt my teeth, which just seemed really weird. It's like, why does having sinusitis hurt my teeth? But apparently it does. I had like really bad toothache over the summer. So maybe there is something going around. But Camilla had it bad enough that she had to pull out of her attendance at the Duchess of Kent's funeral on the Tuesday and was still recovering by the time the Wednesday, which was the substantive day of the state visit, came around, only to then kind of be snubbed a little bit over dinner. So that was also heartbreaking, you know, for Camilla, heartbreaking for Kate. But I guess you can kind of take a step back and say, well, you know, it's all a bit of a scramble and whatever happens, neither of them are going to lose their jobs over it or anything like that.

19:24It is just like a feeling of emotional rejection. That's it. And they're both adults. You know, they're not kids. And I suppose, you know, the other thing is what it tells us actually is probably more significant than many situations they're in. Because in a way, people are most themselves and are most honest in reality when they let themselves down a little bit. And so what we can tell from all of this is that the Trumps do both really love Kate and William, including Melania. Like, you know, we're not at all a surprise to know that Trump loves Kate. And he's also been very vocal about William.

20:00but I didn't really know where Melania stood on the whole thing and so very interesting to see that she really did want to speak to Kate and was very interested in Kate and very interested in William too. And then perhaps more interesting still, Camilla clearly really wanted to get into that conversation both times, both at the state banquet and outside Winter Castle. She wanted to have that conversation with Melania and didn't want to be frozen out and just left sitting there like a lemon. while Melania, you know, forgot that she existed. And I don't think that it is purely status anxiety. I don't think it's all boredom.

20:36And I don't think it's pure competitiveness with the younger generation either. I have a sneaking suspicion, you know, I'm not claiming to have any inside information. It's just a hunch. But I have a sneaking suspicion that actually, you know, deep down, the Queen thinks the Americans are shiny and special in just the same way, actually, as the Trumps think that the monarchy is shiny and special. and I think her desire to get in on the action, Camilla's desire, was genuine. And it goes back to that thing about Michelle Obama and George W. Bush being friends despite being from opposite parties, is that sometimes you really don't expect people to be friendly because of their politics.

21:13Camilla brought up her whole life in Britain. Most of Britain, including Conservative Britain, are very anti-Trump. But when you get to that statesman level, it is very different. and clearly, you know, she wanted to have that conversation. So, in short, the theatre of the state visit was a bit odd, the royals sucking up to Trump was a bit transparent, and the dynamics between family members were endlessly fascinating. But ultimately, it might just go down as a big win, not just for Keir Starmer, who walks away with his shiny bauble and this tech partnership, but also the royals have proven their worth to the government in King Charles' reign.

21:53So that is a big, big factor in the long-term picture from this state visit, is that the monarchy's reputation, you know, with the public, their popularity with the public is continuing to slide. We actually had some new data out about that last week, which showed just how far it's tumbled since the 1980s. Quite far is the short answer. And succession was the perfect time for a republic to mount a new kind of assault on the reputation of the monarchy. But here, Charles will feel that he's earned his money for the country and proven the importance to Britain's national interest of keeping the crown during his reign.

22:29So in that sense, if Harry got mission accomplished when he saw the king a week ago, this week it was Charles' turn. In 2025, the monarchy has been perhaps the biggest asset to the British government in its biggest international partnership. And that is not in the era of Queen Elizabeth II. It is in the era of King Charles III. And so at political level, diplomatic level, foreign office level, Whitehall level, that's the civil service at that, establishment level, do not expect anyone to even pay lip service to the idea of abolishing the monarchy anytime soon. Right, on that note, I'm going to take a quick break.

23:09But before I do, remember to rate and review The Royal Report on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your favourite shows. And when I'm back, Prince Harry has been to Ukraine.

23:23Hello and welcome back to the show. Prince Harry has doubled down on the contents of his book Spare during an interview with The Guardian just days after his meeting, his tea with King Charles, which we all said was a step in the right direction to reconciliation. Now, he didn't say anything bad about Charles. In fact, he said some things that were kind of positive about Charles, such as that he wanted to focus on his relationship with his father over the next year. but he also repeated certain lines of argument that do seem to indicate he hasn't actually necessarily moved on that much in terms of how he sees the past and how he sees his own public pronouncements over the past five years.

24:03So let's start with a little bit about what he actually said. So Harry told the Guardian, I don't believe that I aired my dirty laundry in public. It was a difficult message. This is in the book, but I did it in the best way possible. My conscience is clear. And he added, I know that speaking out annoys some people and it goes against the narrative. The book, it was a series of corrections to stories already out there. One point of view had been put out and it needed to be corrected. Well, I suppose there's there's partial truth in that, although obviously the book was more than just correcting stories in the media that Harry disagreed with.

24:43And it's more than just correcting versions of the palace perspective that had already been articulated. The book goes into detail about all kinds of things, you know, that had never really been written about at all by the media. So, you know, in that respect, it was just such a there was a huge amount of detail on all kinds of subjects and things that there was no particular reason to get stuck into from frostbite to circumcision, stuff that was purely private, quite literally. And then on the other hand, there were bits that were, you know, probably raking back over past disputes, but putting information out into the public domain that wasn't there already.

25:29And with a level of detail that maybe wasn't necessary, for example, you know, Harry could have said a lot of the stuff he wanted to say about the argument over bridesmaids' dresses and Princess Charlotte without saying that Charlotte cried because her bridesmaid dress was too big. So, you know, with all of these things, it's very difficult to just give a blanket defence of something like that. And I guess really, though, when it comes down to it, the bigger issue is, why did Harry do this? So obviously the simple explanation is he was asked. He was asked a question about it and he answered the question.

26:05And I think that probably is kind of what happened, that Harry just kind of feels like if he gets asked something, he just has to be honest about it and say whatever he really, truly feels. But that kind of means that these efforts to rebuild the relationship with his father have this time bomb sitting underneath them, which is what happens if Harry gets asked a question at some point by a journalist in an interview that he might want to do in the future, feels he has to answer honestly about it, and then just blows the whole thing up again. If he does want to hold on to his relationship with his father, then I think he can only do that so many times before Charles really will decide that he's had enough and he just can't do this anymore.