If This Isn't Stopped, UK's Fall Is Irreversible | Andrew Gold

0:00Latest thing that they're doing is really North Korean. They want to force the platforms to prioritize state-adjacent media, although in their legislation they're calling it trustworthy media, which is really scary. It's Orwellian. The BBC is a channel called Channel 4 and there are several others that might come under that umbrella that aren't necessarily state-adjacent. Basically they are rallying against independent creators like you and me. That could absolutely screw, you know, me, Winston Marshall, Trigonometry, all the other guys in the UK who the last few years have been making waves by exposing a lot of this stuff.

0:32I've spoken to one guy in particular who came on Heretics. He and his wife were locked up. What had he been doing? He had been in a school, high school WhatsApp group with all the other parents, and he was criticising the school. And the police, someone there, was like, you know what's a good use of our time right now? There's people being stabbed all over London, there's terrorists running amok, but this guy was criticising the school, let's go and get him, and they arrested him. The UK is kind of, this is what can happen to a bigger country in the US in just a few years' time. That's why people need to take stock.

1:04That's why they need to watch what's going on here. And then we have a smaller version that we can look to, which is Sweden. These are countries with tiny populations, you know, 5, 10 million people. You bring in a million or 2 million over a few years. So Sweden went from being one of the safest places in Europe, in the world, they have turned overnight to the point that it is now one of the highest for, you know, stabbing. And even the people on the left there in Sweden and the right, everywhere, they are going nuts. There will be any re-immigration or a further closing of borders? Or is it just that every six months, Tommy Robinson will pull on a rally, it'll be called right wing, and then nothing will happen?

1:49Hey guys, I'm still off the grid, but I hope you've been enjoying everything we've put up for you in August. And this is officially the last interview that we pre-taped before I disappeared. And I will be back next week. I promise you that. I'm still Dave Rubin. This is still The Rubin Report. And joining me today is the host of Heretics and the author of The Psychology of Secrets, Andrew Gold. Welcome to my off-the-grid adventure. What a pleasure to be here. Again, I'm back on The Rubin Show. This is great. You are back on The Rubin Show. So as we are taping this, it is Tuesday, July 28th. I am about to disappear for a month.

2:27This is the last interview we're going to air in August. I've done shows on health and on happiness, how to eat right, stay fit, spirituality. And then I thought we'd end the month with you because, well, you know about cults and you know about craziness and you interview crazy people. And I feel like that's partly what I'm trying to escape in August. So it felt kind of right to me. Yeah, well, that's right. I mean, with the cults and stuff, I started seeing that in politics. And that's what got me into it. I mean, it's the same kind of thing. The way that the mind works, the way that they push out the other side and don't understand the other side.

3:07So I think that's a good little link. Yeah. All right. So let's start with that generally. Because really, when I started this off the grid thing, it was partly because, you know, I was getting hate online. I was getting love online. I was getting everything in between. but I was like, boy, this is just kind of nuts. Like even when it's all great, ego-wise, that's not great for you endlessly, or you just focus on the negative stuff or whatever. So talk to me a little bit about how do you feel about the general temperature and tone of the internet at the moment, this crazy thing that we are all caught in?

3:40Yeah, we're screwed. We're absolutely screwed. I don't know what the answer is. I don't know what we do. It's a good thing I'm off the grid. Yeah, you are. I mean, we've got this authoritarian kind of all seeing all knowing internet, which was such a wonderful idea. Now, from what I can gather, the likes of China, the likes of India, probably Israel, Qatar, all of these guys are now quite involved. They're pushing little buttons and pushing things and making things go certain ways. And all that happens is you end up with one side who is only seeing one thing, the other side is only seeing the other thing.

4:13And that really is a bit like a cult. I mean, I spent a lot of time talking to people who were in Scientology and people who had left Scientology and talking to them about Lord Xenu. Now, that's always kind of the gold star for me. If you can talk to someone who seems intelligent and who very seriously tells you, yeah, yeah, all the Lord Xenu stuff, that's fine, that's true. And he came from another planet and put millions of souls into the volcano. It's utterly mental. half of them don't even know the full story but all they're seeing inside their cult is other you know pro lord xenu stuff so i mean i was talking to someone yesterday who's a british celebrity you won't know her over there uh so it's not even worth saying her name but she's this famous kind of person very tv person and i like interviewing them because they've never heard sometimes you see people go on bill maher and it's similar and probably on your show as well you know you see these guys like mainstream people they've never ever heard an alternative so this woman said yesterday we're halfway through the show and she just went well you know some people don't think a man can become a woman and i just said well hang on no a man can't become what do you mean and she'd never heard like a reasonable she thought only crazy right-wing zealots would ever suggest that a man can't become a woman i said well you know obviously they can't i mean i don't and then she got so angry so quickly it really got very uh aggressive in this in this interview and she was screaming and shouting and basically it was exactly what i had seen from people in Scientology.

5:38So the internet is pushing people further. Wait, before you continue though, so were you able to deescalate it at all? Because you've been through a lot of these conversations and you're pretty calm and even tempered. We have a similar temperament, I think. So sometimes there's some tricks you can use to get somebody out of that frenetic thing. It's really difficult. I mean, the person I was talking to, this woman is incredibly smart. She's like a daytime TV presenter, kind of an Oprah Winfrey or something. But she's - I think say her name. She was on your show. I think you can say her name. Yeah, okay.

6:10Well, Vanessa Feltz is her name. It's just that you won't know it. It's irrelevant to American audiences. But - A couple of British people watch this show, you know. Oh, they'll know Vanessa Feltz. We've got a couple of Brits. They'll all know her. She's very, very famous over here. And I was absolutely just in awe of her intelligence, the vocabulary she has. You don't expect it from a kind of daytime TV presenter. She's smart. and yet this is the kind of thing that she seems to believe. I don't know if she's given it too much thought. So I personally don't think there's all that much you can do to pull someone out of it in one hour.

6:43Now I've done that with friends. I'm sure you have. I'm sure viewers watching this have done and usually it takes months and months. But the key is that nobody leaves Scientology just because like a friend says, hey, you should leave that thing. They leave because Scientology treats them so badly that they have no alternative but to leave. It gets to that point where it's so bad. so an example of this would be loads of jews loads of jews it's just loads of jews and the jews on student campuses right a lot of them were woke i mean probably a higher percentage i don't want to sort of feed into the right-wing rhetoric but probably a higher percentage in jews than maybe the rest of the population loads of woke jews i knew loads of woke jews then october the 7th happened so from that moment suddenly they are being treated so so badly and they're being told things they know are not true they're being told this is an apartheid well they've been to israel They know this is not South Africa 19-whatever year that was.

7:36They know that it's actually a multicultural haven of sorts. So they're being told so many lies. They're being treated so badly that they, little by little, leave that progressive cult. And then you go, and what do you think about men turning into women? They still believe that stuff. They still believe some of it, just like Scientologists still believe. But gradually, that fades away as well. So it's a process. And the more progressives keep eating themselves, hopefully more of them will start to leave but i'm not gonna be able to do it with a woman a bright intelligent woman in a one-hour conversation what have you found about the type of personalities the type of people is there a gender version of it i think a lot of people think there is jordan peterson's talked about a little bit that seemed to fall for the type of stuff that you're talking about so with the gender i don't know what jordan peterson said but i could i've my theory is that more women fall into it i mean nixxiom is a good example that cult that was Alison Mack and Keith Ranieri.

8:32It was a lot of women and they were being sort of pushed into his sex cult, which is strange. But it was loads of women who maybe lacked purpose and status. We are in a world, look, I'm not really a proper conservative, but I do recognize that there are issues around kind of, you know, the family unit disappearing and all of those kinds of things, if it happens on a kind of large scale. And it used to be the case that a woman had more purpose. if the family meant something. But even if it does, after the kids grow up, everyone's told their whole lives nowadays, oh, you need to have purpose. Who are you?

9:05You're the center of your story. And I think that's really difficult for a lot of women. So women go into these cults. I got another theory, which is that, it's just my theories, Andrew's theories. That's wrong, that's wrong. I have time in August to think about these things. So maybe we can talk again in September. I'll see if I can work them out for you. I always remember this scene in The Pianist where uh adrian brody sort of he was he's in hiding as a jew and he goes out and he's in this woman sees him and he's hiding he's not supposed to be there and she looks at him and there's a split second of like oh what's going on and then she just screams jew at him because she's scared and she's and i think women are very very uh likely to sign up to the popular idea of the day because women are usually the victims quicker than men when they don't agree with something.

9:56So if, you know, the witch hunts, as an example, you know, if women don't go along with the thing, men kill them. So women very quickly jump aboard and then start pushing their kind of status about it because it's a survival mechanism. So are you hopeful that using the analogy of, say, Scientology, and then eventually it treats them so badly or they've lost so much that people bounce out so that after these last, let's say, 10 years or even five years, you know, COVID-ish to now of people getting misinformation, clearly being misled by influencers, politicians, algorithms, all this stuff, that there will be some return to normalcy?

10:37Like, can you paint a picture that actually brings people back towards the truth? I think that would have happened if not for the way that the internet's working, if not for the bad actors in governments around the world that are trying to sow division. I mean, Russia and China don't really care if someone's trans or not, but what they want is weakness in this country. They want to sow division. So they're just going to push more and more on the left. They're just going to see more and more stuff about the right. So unfortunately, it's not actually working the way a cult might. In the cult, if you're in Scientology, all you are getting is the Scientology stuff.

11:08They're treating you terribly. Your life is miserable. You leave. If you're in this political cult, it's different because you're on the left, let's say, and all you're seeing is right-wing people online, videos of them saying horrible things about you all the time. So I think it's a little bit more complicated this time. I'm not sure we can get out of it. At the same time, it's undoubtable that in the States and in the UK, in recent years, people have stopped saying that men can be women. I mean, that's a start, right? It's starting to get there. There's still a number of people, as the person I spoke to yesterday proves, particularly in those kind of cultural institutions.

11:42And that's where you and I have a big job to do. That's where the Daily Wire has a job. That's where the trigonometry, we all have this job to try and normalize our platforms, interview other people. Rogan does this well. He interviews lots of other people who are not necessarily politicians. So you get in more audience and you make it like the culture is, it's normal to discuss these things. I think that's, that's how we win this. You know, it's interesting if you think about the internet, the internet is borderless, meaning when you post something, you could get responses, you know, you might be an American, but half your responses could be from Pakistan or 50 different other countries.

12:17We don't know how many of them are human or whatever. So the internet is borderless, but countries obviously have borders, much to the chagrin of a lot of the lefties. But you probably could make some argument around some sort of bordered internet, but you would want it by choice of the individual, meaning I could go on, say, X, toggle something that would just keep me in America and America replies. It doesn't have to be just American stories, but just interacting with Americans. Because one of the things that I notice all the time is that you'll see someone post something completely insane. It gets 500 ,000 likes.

12:50And then politicians literally quote it as if it has some sort of meaning in a country of almost 350 million people. It still seems like a lot, 500 ,000 likes. But then if you were to really figure, oh, well, actually a third of them are bots and a third of them are from countries across the world, it has no meaning. So it's basically turned a mirror into a funhouse mirror. Yeah, it's a tough one because as soon as you start introducing that, it's like, well, how will the governments actually implement it once they have that kind of, I mean, they have the power, but once the precedent is there.

13:22I would want private companies to do it. Like that would be something I would trust Elon more to maybe put a function in that would allow you to do it. I wouldn't want the government to do it because, yeah, then you have no idea what's on the other side of the wall. Exactly. Yeah. Well, look, Elon, it's a lot of power in one man's hands. I like Elon Musk, but I wouldn't want that power in my hands or your hands or Elon's. But I get the idea. I mean, other people are saying another way around that would be you have to give your ID and then you get a tick or something. So you can take that bot seriously if you choose to, but it's not going to have a tick.

13:56But the problem is, I'm sure firstly, the bots are going to get around this some way. And secondly, now we're suddenly giving all of our IDs to people. I don't think anyone likes that. And it disincentivizes whistleblowers, which is so important. So I don't actually think, I know people like to think in the terms of like, if we do this, this will work. I think the reality is if we do this, here are 50 problems. If we do this, here are 51 problems. Let's do the one with 50 problems, maybe, you know? Yeah. It's basically whack-a-mole. It's like, yeah, you can sort of short-term solve something and then another one pops up and another one, another one.

14:25But speaking of social media and censorship and not giving too much power to anyone, what is the deal with what's going on across the pond right now with you people in censorship? You're still not in jail as far as I can tell. Not quite in jail, but the latest thing that they're doing is really North Korean. I know people say that. We say it too easy, but there are only a few countries doing what the UK is looking to do. Among them is North Korea. They want now, and YouTube is very upset about this, but they're pushing YouTube and all the other social media platforms to, they want to force the platforms to prioritize state adjacent media.

14:59Although in their legislation, they're calling it trustworthy media, which is really scary. It's Orwellian, the trustworthy media. Yeah, I mean, that's like, yeah, that's Orwell 101, yeah. Yeah, if it were trustworthy, people would be watching it. And they're saying that the issue here is nobody's watching it. And so we need everyone to watch our trustworthy media. That's the BBC. There's a channel called Channel 4. And there are several others that might come under the umbrella that aren't necessarily state adjacent, but they have the right kind of legislation and lawyers and the teams or whatever.

15:28Basically, they are rallying against independent creators like you and me, that could absolutely screw me, Winston Marshall, Trigonometry, all the other guys in the UK who the last few years have been making waves by exposing a lot of this stuff. So it's obvious to see why they want to do this. The stupidest part of it is this is a left-wing government trying to implement it for authoritarian means. And they haven't thought about the future because what happens when the right-wing government gets in? We shouldn't have any of that kind of authoritarian measures, but it's really scary. YouTube are pushing creators to try and write to people to try and expose it because it goes against the whole meritocratic system of YouTube the whole point of it so it's really scary and that's the first time where I thought you know what if that actually gets implemented not only because it's so scary from a political point of view but from my own personal and professional point of view I won't be able to continue in this country I need a lot more America I mean I just did an America tour because I need American subscribers I can't continue heretics if we get deprioritized so that the BBC gets ahead of us every single time.

16:28So that's the scariest thing now. And by the way, my friend, I hate to tell you, but they're probably all doing that to some degree already. And I mean that even here in the United States. Like there's very few people that are jumping on YouTube to watch a CNN clip, but CNN, I don't even know their numbers exactly, but they do sort of get this like artificially boosted in the algorithm numbers. I'm not even saying that's government related here in the United States, but it's it's just like the system seems to like things of the system how about that yeah yeah and it was disgusting really because even just i mean obviously it's it's terrible because it's not right for the viewers the viewers deserve to get the news that they want to watch and uh but also from the perspective of the creators you and i and all the others many of us started with nothing we you know my first episodes of the of of heretics i was stick you know sellotaping bits and pieces and using a shoebox to put a thing on top of a thing.

17:25The good old days, the good old days. The good old days when it was minimum wage jobs I was doing. It was like trying, you know, all that stuff. Meanwhile, the BBC is just an institution that a bunch of guys who just got university degrees went and worked there and they have not been making anywhere near good enough content for anybody to watch it and they still get boosted and the CNN, the same thing. It's also incredible your BBC to me because every time I go on the BBC and I've been on dozens of times. They try so hard to sandbag you every time. You always get that little off-camera moment with the presenter and they're super nice and they're so happy to have you.

18:02And the second you get on there, they ask you 10 things that have nothing to do with what they told you they were going to ask you. They might switch the topic altogether. They try to quote something that feels like it's not a real quote. I mean, they use every... I think your BBC does that actually even worse than what our mainstream media is doing in a lot of cases. They do. They do. There's an example of this recently. There's a soccer player, we'd call it a football player or whatever, a guy called Jermaine Genas used to play for Tottenham, which is my team. And he became a TV presenter. And he got into a bit of a kerfuffle whereby he was found to have been sending embarrassing texts or unwanted texts to women there and he got fired, right?

18:43It's not the worst thing in the world, though. It wasn't some of the stuff the BBC did let people get away with, with the pedophilia stuff. It was just a guy who was a sports player sending messages like, that's going to happen. Okay, you got fired. Okay. And years later, he's tried to come back on and they had him on for an interview. This was actually on ITV, but it's a similar kind of thing. And they just went for him to the point that he was angry and it was good TV or whatever. But I said to his team, why didn't you get him on my show or a show like that where we don't and the difference is those it's not that those itv or bbc guys are necessarily evil people it's just that they have a lot to lose and if they seem to be you know going along with him or defending him or not going in really hard on him they will lose their jobs or they will be criticized so when you work in that kind of atmosphere dave rubin comes on the show or this guy who's been sending texts or i come on the show they've got to kill us because it's self-preservation.

19:39Yeah, it's so interesting. And what you just said there is so true. And for guys like us who see how the sausage is made, it's like I, when I'm interviewing someone, I try to get the most out of them, get the best out of them, learn from them, try if they don't know what they're talking about to give them enough room to hang themselves. But these guys, yeah, they go in like, sure. This video is sponsored by Kalshi where they know a little something about odds. Guys, it's like buying or selling a stock, except the line isn't set by some algorithm working against you, it moves based on where the money actually goes.

20:11It shows where people are putting their money, not what the media wants you to believe. So, which Hamas breeding grounds will see their rankings drop this year? I like this one. If you put$100 on, yes, Colombia, and we're talking about the university, not the country, you can earn$189 if correct. Download the Kalshi app and use code RUBENREPORT to get$10. When you trade$10, K-A-L-S-H-I, Call she, put your money where your prediction is. What do you think? I mean, the social media ban, you know, we keep seeing these videos of, you know, two young female police officers showing up at somebody's house to harass a seven-year-old for doing something on, what are they playing?

20:52Fortnite? Like what, yeah, Roblox, whatever. What is going on? I want to just say well done for that ad read because I don't think people realize that's all in one take. And most people can't do that without, you know, stuttering over their words. so i've been around the block you know you know what's going on um i think you spoke from the heart that's what it was so so yeah the it's it's hard to say because on the one hand you don't want to be you know pushing out this stuff like you know the uk's and you know you say one thing and the police come over because obviously that's not the case i'm here talking to you right now i i have this interview show where i go on about the ridiculousness of it all and i've never had an approach and it's all been okay so it's not yet at that point we do have a new prime minister called Andy Burnham, who does seem to be a little bit more to the left than the previous guy, whoever he was.

21:41And so it's worrying. Is it hard for you guys to remember? It's hard for us to remember. I mean, what, you've had, what, six prime ministers in eight years, something like that? It's nuts. Yeah. I mean, I had one of them who had the shortest time she came on the show, Liz Truss. Oh, Liz Truss. Yeah. I had her on. Yeah, Liz. Yeah, she was good. I liked her.

22:02I She's great. She's charismatic and interesting. And at least she's pushing against something. Although when they're in office, they never seem to do it. And then they come out and they say, oh, someone else stopped me from doing it. And they're all blaming each other. Because I spoke to Liz. I spoke to another politician here called Suella Braverman, who's very high up in reform. I spoke to a few of them. And each of them points the finger at the other because I say, how did you let so many people in? To give Americans in particular or non-Brits an idea, we were letting people in it was like 1.3 million i think that was net migration into the country so a lot of british people are leaving and a huge number of now 1.3 million is big in the states right in a country the size of the states in the uk where we've got 50 million people that is ridiculous that overnight that just that resets things entirely and that is year after year after year and it ends up being called the boris wave it was a wave of people who were brought in by Boris Johnson, who is a conservative who is supposed to be against this kind of stuff.

23:00So Lord knows what might have happened had a left-wing person been in at that time of like, bring everybody in that you can. But yeah, they all point at each other. They all say, well, we wanted to change this regulation and the legislation and we couldn't do it, but that person stopped me. And who knows what actually went on. I think the culture actually changed and people looked back and went, what the hell was that? And at the time it was like, we didn't yet have the effects of those millions of people. So it seemed like a reasonable idea. it's not helped the economy at all but as to your your question about um yeah the free speech stuff though i've spoken to one guy in particular uh who came on heretics and he was locked up for i don't know the exact number of hours but most of a day let's say so let's say it was somewhere between 12 and 20 hours he and his wife were locked up they came police there were like six or seven police officers came to his house and arrested both of them in front of their kids which is utterly traumatic.

23:51I mean, I would remember that now if that had happened to my kids when I was a kid. It's just a traumatic thing. What had he been doing? He had been in a school, high school WhatsApp group with all the other parents, and he was criticizing the school. He didn't use any swear words, bad words, cuss words, or anything like that. He didn't make any claims that were sort of really bad or whatever. It was just he was criticizing the school. The school found out about it. They told the police unfathomably. I don't know why. And the police, someone there was like, you know, what's a good use of our time right now?

24:24There's people being stabbed all over London, there's terrorists running amok. But this guy was criticizing the school, let's go and get him and they arrested him. So that's what happened to him? What happened to him? He got released. And I think he was at the last time I spoke to him, he was considering taking legal action against the police, you know, but then he's probably going to be in another WhatsApp group criticizing the police and he'll get arrested again for being in these WhatsApp groups. So that's the worst example. And the reason I didn't go for that first is because your viewers might already be familiar with it, although they may not be, is the Lucy Connolly example.

24:56Now, that's only really the worst example because people know about it. There must be many, many cases. Can you explain it a bit for some of the people that don't know? Lucy Connolly went... Okay, I'll tell what she did first. So this was after a guy called Axel Rudakabana. He was a second generation immigrant from Rwanda who the newspapers described as a Welsh choir boy. He didn't look like a Welsh choir boy, but fine. If you want to say someone who lives in the places, then fine, maybe he's Welsh. And I think some years earlier had attended a choir once, but he was this horrible, horrible guy who had an Al-Qaeda manual, among many other things, and went and stabbed a bunch of kids at a Taylor Swift themed to party uh in the uk on the on the coast somewhere um killed the kids right and the most horrific thing ever and at that point keir starmer the former prime minister who i was pretending to forget previously um he came out and blamed the far right the far right all the far right are doing it it's always their answer it's always the father and we mustn't we mustn't look back in anger they all say they use that oasis song without their permission because i doubt they'd be on board with this but don't look back in anger with we are angry we're very angry that this could happen now in that moment there were some people who took to the streets and sought it wasn't such a riot but but it was you know they held up placards and things a very small number of people who might be deemed far right it really wasn't a big number at all but suddenly it was this whole like oh the far right are going out and doing whatever they're doing and in all of that mess this woman called lucy connelly who had like no followers at all online no one knew who she was really, except she was married to a politician, but very minor.

26:35Nobody knew who these people were. She had lost a child through the NHS. So she had reason to hate the state, the NHS being the national health system. So she hates the state because she believes they made some sort of mistake that ended in the death of her own child. Then she is watching news about, because of the state bringing in so many people, one of them has killed loads of other children. Obviously, she's very emotional. She puts a post up. I think it was Facebook, although I keep hearing people talking about it being a tweet but i think i thought it was facebook a facebook post um saying something along the lines of uh i don't care anymore burn down the mosques for all i care now the for all i care is really important i think because it's saying do what you're going to do anyway for all i care it's not saying go and do it if someone were to go and burn a mosque i think it would be very very difficult to to put those two oh she he did it because he saw the facebook post.

27:23I mean, it's absurd. Anyway, she got taken to put on trial. She was pushed to plead guilty by the lawyers. She did delete it, right? If I'm not mistaken, I think she did delete it. That's a good point. I forgot to mention that. A few hours later, she deleted the post. She regretted putting the post up. And she went to, she pled guilty and she went to prison for 31 months. As you guys know, I recently banged up my shoulder and it's been a painful reminder of how quickly pain can get in the way of your everyday life. Whether it's your back, shoulders, knees, or just general muscle soreness from exercise and daily life, it can make doing the things you love a lot less enjoyable.