Triggernometry Hosts Try to Hide Their Shock at Sam Harris' Charlie Kirk Claim

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1:55All right, everybody. It is Friday, November 21st in the year 2025. I'm Dave Rubin. This is the Rubin Report's time for another Friday roundtable extravaganza. And joining me is PragerU commentator, first time Rubin Report guest, Franklin Andres Camargo. And repeat, Rubin Report panelist, host of Family Matters, CJ Pearson. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Good to see you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. CJ, you've been on many times, so I'm going to give Franklin 30 seconds to explain who he is to the crowd. Franklin, go. Yes, I'm a political commentator. I work for PragerU, and the reason why I have this accent is because I was born and raised in Venezuela.

2:36I'm a socialism survivor. I had to escape my country after being accused of being a terrorist. And the reason why I started to do politics is because as a kid, I had the opportunity to come to the U.S. and see the results of a free and successful society. So I fell in love with this country. And when I needed freedom the most, this country opened its doors for me. It wasn't my right to be here. It was a privilege. It was a blessing. So now I dedicate my time to try to keep this country the greatest on earth. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the type of immigrant we want here in this great country.

3:13CJ, for anyone that doesn't know you, I'll give you 30 seconds in your fancy suit over there somewhere in D.C. Who the hell is CJ Pearson? Yeah, of course. Well, Dave, thank you so much for having me and good to see you as well, Franklin. So, yeah, 23 years old and fighting the conservative movement since I was 12 years old, making YouTube videos, tweeting, causing trouble and actually worked for PragerU as well, which was an incredible time, you know, fighting the belly of the beast over in L.A. But this past cycle was served as the national chair of the RNC Youth Advisory Council. So we're closely with the campaign leadership in the RNC on how to reach young people where they are.

3:47And that was a critical, critical thing that we did. I also am the creator of the Cruel Kids Party that New York magazine famously derided. And we've been taking that show on the road. And each party gets bigger and bigger. We've done it with Soulja Boy, Rick Ross, Waka Flocka. Up next, maybe Nicki Minaj is looking like. Who knows? Oh, fancy, fancy. And for people that don't remember that, we'll throw up the image of the cover of the magazine. And they based, I mean, the basic implication was that you guys are a white supremacist group. I don't know if it's the coloring on my TV here, but you appear to be black to me.

4:20And they literally cropped out the black people from the image. And then you posted the further images, which we'll show as well. So just crazy stuff. But I did want to have you guys on together, not only because of the PragerU connection, but also there's just seemingly a lot going on on the right right now as it relates to young people. So we'll hit on that and a bunch more. But I want to just kind of get us caught up on some of the stuff of the week. So I want to start with a guy who I would say is an old friend of mine who we've sort of Gonnard separate ways politically. And we're going to play two videos right now of Sam Harris, one of them on sort of the ways we've parted politically.

4:56And then the second one will be in ways that we've kind of, I would say, come together politically. Here is Sam Harris on the Trigonometry podcast talking a bit about the reaction post Charlie Kirk's death. There's no party left of center, real party for political assassination. And yet right of center, very prominent people from the president and Elon on down treated it like the first shot fired in the Civil War. Totally irresponsible, totally dishonest. I mean, these people were arsonists pretending to be firefighters. I mean, he is just flinging matches into a landscape that has been just soaked in gasoline.

5:38lane. And the soaking has been done mostly by Trump and Trumpism and just what, you know, the grifters. Okay. So look, as I said, Sam was a friend of mine, so I don't want to make this, I at least don't want to make this personal, but I thought there was something interesting there because, you know, right after Charlie was killed and CJ, you definitely knew Charlie. Franklin, did you ever get to meet Charlie? Yes. I actually met him in 2019 in a TPUSA event. Okay, great. So we all knew Charlie, but right after he died, it wasn't that I, from my position, it wasn't that people were suddenly all blaming the left blanket-wise for it.

6:17It was more, oh, the rhetoric that you guys have used against us, we're Nazis, we're racists, we're white supremacists, we hate trans people, whatever, all that stuff, that at some point it would escalate to a situation like this. So, CJ, first up, do you think that that's a fair diagnosis? And how deep do you think the rot is when it comes to political violence on the left? Because there's a lot of data showing that particularly young people, they are OK with it. Yeah, you even, you know, had an article that recently came out from The Atlantic where it actually acknowledges the fact that the left has a political violence problem.

6:50You know, when the left is losing The Atlantic, I think that's pretty indicative of where these bullets are coming from. And they're coming almost exclusively from the left to the right. And so, you know, you talk about the rhetoric that oftentimes the left is used to describe conservatives and Republicans, whether it's fascists, Nazis, Hitler, whatever. They continue to use that rhetoric. They continue to double down. You see Gavin Newsom from his official account on X calling President Trump a fascist. The very thing that was on a shell casing in the gun that was used to assassinate Charlie Kirk.

7:19These people, you know, I think I used to think it was a, you know, a little bit of a hyperbole when people would say, oh, the left wants us dead. They have shown that they actually do really want us dead in many such cases. And so I've got to say, you know, it's unfortunate to see him trying to just gloss over this and act like we created this problem for ourselves as if conservatives want to get shot, want to have security everywhere we go. No, that's not the case. It's actually shameful that when you go to a college campus where you're supposed to have the free and fair exchange of ideas, that you have to have a security guard now because you don't know if some deranged transgender will try to kill you for saying basic biological facts.

7:58Like, that is reality that we currently live in. And it's not progressives. You know, I was on Jubilee, like, this past week. And I was asking, you know, Parker. I was like, hey, like, do you have to have, like, security when you go to places? He's like, why would I have to do that? Why don't I have to do that? Because conservatives are not killing these people. They're not Toronto. Right. The simple truth that everyone knows is that any far left wackadoodle could show up at any college in America and conservatives aren't going to try to burn the place down or pull fire alarms or threaten them or anything else.

8:29And we know it doesn't go the other way. And by the way, all of our friend, the great Dennis Prager, as he always says, the right thinks that the left is wrong. The left thinks that the right is evil. That's a fundamental difference. But Franklin, what do you make of this? Yeah, actually, let me quote Dennis Prager because he said something that is really interesting. He said, I used to mention that the moral compass of the left is broken. No, it's not that it's broken. It's that it doesn't even exist anymore. They don't have a moral compass right now. There was a poll that was made by YouGov that revealed that 62 % of young people who identify themselves as very liberal are okay with political violence to achieve a political or objective goal, which is, of course, a disgrace.

9:15The fact that that amount of young people are willing to use force to try to stop ideas, to actually try to stop facts. And here's the difference between the left and the right. On the right, we can disagree. We even disagree among ourselves, but we understand that free speech is a fundamental value. It is an American value. When you disagree with someone, you debate. You engage in an exchange of ideas. But the left, they actually think that if they disagree with you, they should use force to stop you. They think it's justified. And when they call you Hitler, when they call you Nazi, when they call you a fascist, that is such a dangerous act.

9:56Why? Because let's just ask a very basic question. What is justified to stop someone like Hitler? Anything. Of course, because he would kill you. He would go after you. He would destroy you. So you should use force to stop him because that would be self-defense. So when you try to call someone Hitler just because he has a different view, you are doing something that is very dangerous. And let's not forget something. Charlie Kirk, which I fully agree, I agree with him on almost everything, but even for the people who disagree with him, the thing that he would do if you disagree with him was to provide a microphone.

10:34Let's debate. Let's have a conversation. And that is the American way. Around the world, you are not allowed to do that. In many countries, in many places, even in the UK, even in so many Western nations. So we need to stop the left because we cannot normalize this type of violence. Right. And there's also a fundamental difference between them calling us, say Nazis and fascists, where we call them socialists and communists, because that's what they call themselves, right? Like that's a fundamental, fundamental difference. But okay, so I want to show you one other clip because here now is Sam, also on trigonometry.

11:07And this is someone who has had complete and utter Trump derangement syndrome and cut a lot of people out of his life who ended up supporting Trump, which is kind of unfortunate. But here he is acknowledging, I mean, this is wild, actually acknowledging that Trump has not only done good, but maybe he deserves the Nobel Prize for it. I think he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for having brought the hostages back, right? I mean, I think that's, I have no problem saying that, right? So readily admit that that was a massive achievement. Whatever happens next, I mean, there's not gonna be peace in the Middle East as a result of this ceasefire.

11:39So I'm not, I'm very skeptical and pessimistic about the outcome, but just that peace, getting all the living hostages back was massive. There was no Democrat who was gonna do it. President Kamala Harris wasn't going to do it. Biden wouldn't have done it. Many of his weaknesses as a president, as a person, translated in that specific area into strengths. Right. His unpredictability, his his his unprincipledness, his his the fact that he he could just throw over the chessboard and walk away for another year. So, CJ, you can see I'm trying to give the guy credit here. But what he does there at the end, you know, he's basically poking the guy who is who he's also saying did the unthinkable and got the hostages back and everything else.

12:24That unpredictability and throwing the chessboard up and all that. That's the stuff that causes enemies to be like, oh, we better not F around with this guy. Yeah, exactly right. It's what keeps nothing negotiation table. It's exactly why he was able to go and bring Kim Jong-un to the table when no other president had been able to do that. People forget about that. You know, he was calling him Rocketman, all these things. And he was threatening to basically nuke North Korea if they didn't, you know, you know, do what we wanted them to do. And that type of, you know, kind of unpredictability that the president often displays is one of his biggest bargaining tools, whether it's, you know, economic policy via his tariff policy or whether it's just just general foreign policy issues.

13:02And so, no, it's definitely a great thing that he utilizes and he is utilized it to win. Like my entire thing is that you can question someone's strategies, tactics, whatever. You can't question results. And the guy gets results like that's my thing to be mad, but he gets results. So, Franklin, to that point, what is what have you learned? I mean, even just in your time in America about what we call Trump derangement syndrome, because it seems to me that although, yes, I get it. They don't like the tweets and they don't like some of the behavior and this and that and whatever. We've all been through that forever.

13:33But because he directionally is right on almost everything, even his biggest haters like Sam there end up crediting the guy. And then, of course, he's needling him at the end. But it tells you something about the psychology around all this. Yeah. Actually, I'm going to give him credit for that. Many leftists wouldn't even recognize something that is objectively positive about Donald J. Trump. I mean, would actually someone deny the fact that releasing and freeing the hostages is a positive thing? Well, of course, those who support Hamas and who reject and hate Western civilization would argue that is not necessarily positive.

14:08But yeah, I see it. I see it every day. Many of the things that the left right now promotes is not even based on values or ideas, but it's just a reaction to whatever Trump does or says. If Trump says something that is objectively good, it doesn't matter because Trump said it. Therefore, the left is going to try to reject it or is going to try to oppose it. And actually, we see it with the Epstein files. They didn't care about that during four years when they thought they could use it as a political weapon. They tried to show some interest, but they don't really care about that. Yeah, I mean, I brought that point up several times this week.

14:44It's like you guys had all the opportunity to go anywhere with this. You did nothing. So clearly you think this has some stank that you can attach to Trump on all that. Let's talk about Blue Chew for a minute and then we'll get to something on the sort of young Republican side that I think I know I'd love to hear your opinions on. Blue Chew is basically the upgrade button for your sex life. These chewable tablets are designed to deliver stronger, harder and longer lasting erections without the hoops. No waiting rooms, no pharmacy lines and no awkward doctor visits. Just a quick online consultation, and once you're approved by a licensed medical professional, BlueChew sends your tablets straight to your door in discreet packaging.

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15:52All right, so I want to show you this video of Naylan Haley. This is Nikki Haley's son. I've met him a couple times over the years. Seems like a kind of bright young guy. I'm guessing that you guys maybe have crossed paths with him. He was on Tucker Carlson talking about sort of what young conservatives want right now. Growing up here is a big part of understanding the country. We need to stop and limit the amount of foreign students that are coming into our universities. Some of them are spies, by the way, for foreign governments. But it's also just we should put our kids first. Yes. And we should also not allow dual citizenship because that's the stupidest idea.

16:30You're either American or you're not. And everyone wants to make it so complicated. That's the thing that I don't like about the past generation is they're always about the rules, the process, and regulation. No, it's really simple. You're just America first. People should have their loyalty to America first. And if they can't do that, then this ain't the country for you. That's totally right. What about serving in a foreign military? Oh, gosh, no, forget about it. You can't do that. Of course not, right? It's ridiculous. You're not describing the priorities of the modern Republican Party at all here.

17:01No, but hopefully one day it will be. So, CJ, what do you make of this? I mean, there's obviously a lot of talk right now on what's happening, particularly with young men on the right, Tucker and the Fuentes thing, and there's obviously just a lot going on in that ecosystem right now. I'm completely with him on the foreign students thing. The dual citizenship thing, I'm not totally sure about that because if you were a perfectly decent person who grew up in Canada and you want to become an American, do you have to renounce your Canadian citizenship just because you move here? I mean, there's something that seems a little too, that could be talked through a little bit more, but what do you think?

17:36I would say definitely for elected officials. There's no reason you should be a dual citizen of any other country. You know, your priority should. All right. I think that would be a fair distinction. Would be America, you know, as far as, you know, everyday citizens. You know, I think like you said, I think there's a robust discussion we had about that issue. I think right now, you know, young men are definitely disillusioned. And I think that it's in large part because of the fact that we have had this, you know, I think we've been in so much foreign turmoil as of late. And I think there is an affordability crisis in America.

18:05There are a lot of people who've gone to college. They've done all the things that, you know, they've checked all the boxes, but yet they're struggling to find a job. They're struggling to afford, you know, to live here in the country. And, you know, we've seen, you know, of course, the prioritization of things like HB, you know, H1B visas and all that stuff, which, you know, made a lot of people very, very angsty in terms of that. So I get where he's coming from. And I think that it's a discussion that's definitely being had a lot among young conservatives. Remains to be seen whether or not that'll be adopted by the broader Republican Party.

18:36But it's definitely a conversation being had. Yeah. Franklin, what do you make of that? It seems that there's now a growing movement on the right for the government to be more involved in their lives, that the government should be fixing all of these things, which obviously is more of a leftist idea. You grew up in Venezuela, as you pointed out. I understand the inclination, but perhaps they should be careful what they wish for. Yes, 100%. And it is actually a problem. It is a problem that I think is a result of our institutions. It is a result of education, indoctrination. The left has been infiltrating itself in so many places and has been promoting anti-American ideas.

19:16Of course, there is an affordability issue. And we need to talk to young people about that. Housing, being able to afford a house as someone who is young is very tough. It's very hard. The question is why? And the reason or my answer would be, well, statism, big government, zoning regulations, government spending, actually a huge welfare state. The federal government spends around 60 percent of the federal budget just on entitlements. So we have a big government that has left behind free markets ideas, free capitalism. So it's making the lives of young people harder, more difficult. And the solution that some people are promoting, not just on the left, sometimes even on the right, is more government.

20:02But this would be a horrible mistake to make. But we also need to pay attention to what is happening in our culture and to what is happening in our education system. Because when young kids go to a school, they are taught to hate America. They are taught to hate our values. They are taught to hate the greatest nation on earth. I like to say that the reason why young people right now do not feel passionate about capitalism, the reason why, in fact, they hate capitalism is because they hate America, not the other way around. Free markets, as an idea, is a result of the American foundation. The fact that the government should be limited, should only exist to protect individual rights.

20:43And if we left that behind, we're going to be in trouble. So if we are on the right, we should be the ones promoting individual freedom. And I see some people on the right who want to embrace actually big government. They want to embrace some of them, sadly, identity politics. And that would be a huge mistake. But again, I think it's a result of what we are witnessing on our universities and institutions. I think those people on the right who have some of them more in common with the left, in my opinion, like Nick Fuentes, they're useful to the left. That's why you see the New York Times, for instance, showing Nick Fuentes as the future or the replacement of Charlie Kirk, which, of course, he's not, but the left wants it to be.

21:28Right. CJ, real quick on that point. I mean, is this really what the horseshoe theory is in some sense? To me, although Trump's been president now for 10 months, he's done a freaking incredible job so far, but you can't solve everything at once. And there's a certain kind of impatience with people that then may push them towards wanting more government involvement. But you got to get it. To me, you got to give the guy a chance to make things happen, which is what he's doing. Yeah, I think the problem here is like there's a fundamental misunderstanding of politics with a lot of these people. Congress is not meant to be a fast moving institution.

22:03They don't even show up to work most at all, really. I think they just got back from a very lengthy recess during the government shutdown. And so, yeah, I think the president can only work with a team that he has. And at the end of the day, it's like if we really want to shepherd his agenda through faster, we need better leaders in Congress to help that happen. And we don't just need to elect Republicans. We need to elect conservatives. And, you know, unfortunately, there's a lot to be desired in that category, unfortunately. Or most of them could just go home and we could see how we do without them.

22:33That might be interesting. Speaking of one of them going home, here she goes. Nancy Pelosi, she's retiring. This is your first interview since you've announced that you'll be retiring at the end of your term. Why go now? Why did I retire? Yeah. Well, I've been eager to sort of go into another phase of life for a while. I thought Hillary Clinton was going to win in 2016 and the Affordable Care Act would be intact and our country would be in great hands. She was so qualified. And then that didn't happen. So we had to stay to make the fight. And now we're making the fight again. Franklin, she stayed around after 2016, another nine years.

23:17I'm not sure what she accomplished, although she got pretty damn rich. That lady trades above the market like you would not believe. She will not be very missed. Let me paraphrase Lord Acton. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely anyone. The fact that a politician can have an entire career in Washington, D.C. for 30, 40, 50 years is simply disgusting. And I think that the founding fathers, when they thought about, you know, serving the public and being a public official, they didn't think about people being in Washington, these were being in politics, actually, in Congress for so many decades.

23:55It is a huge mistake. In politics, I want to see individuals, I want to see productive minds from different sectors who have been successful in the private industry, and then they can add some value to our lives. But how do we have people in Congress who haven't ever earned money from the private sector, but they only know how to survive through the government, through the state, through promising free stuff to people? And that is a huge mistake because actually that's when corruption starts, when you find politicians, when you find individuals representing the same district for decades. It is horrible.