What Really Happened on 'The View' & 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' | Cheryl Hines

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1:09That's wildalaskan.com slash Rubin for$35 off your first order. You might need MIDI if you ever hairsprayed your bangs into a waterfall. Layered slouch socks, tight as crunchy to the bottom corner of your t-shirt, or tried to go for a run with a CD player. If this took you down memory lane, you might need MIDI. Perimenopause can start 10 years before you actually go through menopause. So for some women, that can be as early as 35. Nobody ever told you that? Well, nobody told us either. That's why we built MIDI. If you're experiencing symptoms like night sweats, weight gain, or just generally don't feel like yourself anymore, you may be in perimenopause.

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2:26It is odd to be in the hot seat for someone else. I was in the hot seat fielding questions, sometimes just statements on behalf of Bobby. So that was strange. The left, some people are very emotional and upset. My experience with the right, They have been accepting and warm. I had been through a lot of training for improv. Otherwise, I would never have gotten that part on Curb Your Enthusiasm. Because, like you said, there was no script. But were you ever worried that you guys were going to step in it or there was going to be any blowback? Because somehow the show totally skipped cancel culture.

3:05Oh my God. He might say before the scene, you're going to tell me that your parents are coming to stay for three weeks. I would know even from that information, three weeks is a long time for anybody to stay with someone. I can only imagine that this is not going to go well with Larry. How is your relationship with him now, knowing that, you know, he is kind of, from where I sit, he's a crazy lefty.

3:40I'm Dave Rubin. This is The Rubin Report. And I am thrilled to be kind of, sort of, hopefully not doing too much politics today because joining me is award-winning actress and author of the new book, Unscripted, Cheryl Hines. Cheryl, how are you? I'm good. I'm good. How are you? I'm just fine. As I said here for the 10 seconds before we started recording, I'm thrilled to be talking to you because I actually am a fan. We have, our worlds have sort of collided over time, sort of through Bobby, also through comedy and a bunch of stuff. So I thought it would be interesting because I've played a bunch of the clips from your book tour on the show.

4:18And it's sort of interesting because the book obviously is mostly about Curb and your career and everything else. And of course you talk about the Bobby stuff in politics too. But I thought it's been interesting watching you do media now where you're thought of as political because of your husband, even though that's not a it's not really what the book is, but it's not really what you are. And I just sort of wonder now that you're a few weeks into the tour, the book tour and doing all these interviews. How do you feel about that in and of itself? Well, it is a different world because I've been married to Bobby for over 10 years.

4:55And it hasn't really been the lead off to interviews before. But now it is. And it's, you know, I just have to be ready, have to be ready for whatever comes at me, you know, regarding him. So it's a different way to do interviews, I guess. Yeah. And, you know, I saw you sitting down with our mutual friend, Bill Maher, and you said something that I thought was super interesting was that, you know, as you guys got welcome, you know, you're a Hollywood person. So now suddenly you're kind of welcomed in these right wing circles and that it was surprising for you to find that these people were kind of nice and kind.

5:40And I went through a version of that myself 10 years ago when I was kind of evolving. And are you still kind of surprised by it that these conservatives are usually pretty kind of nice and open minded and tolerant and decent and all that stuff? Yeah, I am. I mean, that being said, I don't know what I was expecting. I guess I was expecting, you know, the flip side of what I'm experiencing with maybe the left. Because the left, some people are very emotional and upset. And then my experience with the right has been, they have been accepting and warm. and sometimes they'll even say, I know that, you know, we don't agree on politics or some things, but they seem more willing to find common ground and just accept you as you are.

6:46So that's been a little surprising. I have to tell you, you know, and then I promised I started this by saying we're not going to talk politics. So we're just going to get it out. We're just getting all this nonsense out of the way And then we'll get into comedy and all the other stuff. I don't know if you were there, but, you know, before the election, there was the Restore the Rally event in D.C. that Bobby headlined. And I spoke there and a bunch of other people spoke. And it was right after the Maha and MAGA thing kind of came together. And I kid you not, that was the day I really thought something special was happening here.

7:15Because to see all of these kind of like old hippies that loved Bobby, suddenly with the MAGA people with the red hat, I was like, man, this thing actually is unstoppable. So it's just, to me, it's just very cool adventure that you guys have been on. That's not even a question. No, but you're right. I mean, that's what I have liked about Bobby connecting with people is that the ideas that he's talking about, about being healthier, really hits with everybody. And it crosses party lines, which is nice. I mean, that's what, that's what we should be doing is listening and, and seeing, you know, issue by issue, what we respond to and what we connect to.

8:02And, and he has a way of doing that with people, which I think is admirable. Right. So I promise we're almost there. So is that a little, I can't, I can't stop myself, but. By the way, that's not, that's been child's play. No, I know, I know. But I could talk Curb with you for like 17 hours. So I just want to get this stuff out of late. You know, because also I watched you on The View and I was thinking, boy, you know, if Cheryl was on The View five years ago, you know, Curb's on the air and you just went on five years ago to talk about Curb and Larry and comedy and all that. They would have been fawning all over you and Joy would have been sitting in your lap and all the rest of it.

8:39And then I watched you on there and it's like, I'm not a huge fan of Sonny Hostin. Everyone knows that. It's just like the need to go after you because of your husband. It just feels so thin. Like, what is that like sitting there? It is, you know, different, like you're talking about, because I had been on The View a lot of times in the past. But I know that people and the ladies on The View are very passionate about their views. Their one view. Through one view. So it is odd to be in the hot seat for someone else. I was in the hot seat fielding questions, sometimes just statements on behalf of Bobby.

9:37So that was strange, kind of. But, you know, I'm used to it now. I get it. I understand it. That's what they want to talk about. That's what's on their mind. That's what's, you know, they had a lot of questions. So it's different. So now watch how I can then turn this towards career stuff. So while you're sitting there on some of these shows in that in a slightly combative or whatever you want, you know, having to answer for your husband or whatever it is, which I thought on The View, you did a great job at one point when they were like, you know, his extremist views. And you were like, well, which extremist views?

10:14And then they all get quiet at the same time. But, so watch how we'll shift this. Were you consciously like kind of using some of the skills that you learned through Curb and working with Larry and all those guys where it was just like, you have to play through. There's no script here. I would imagine some of that must've come through. Absolutely. Right. So I titled my book Unscripted because Curb Your Enthusiasm was unscripted. It was all improvised. And it is a very helpful tool, especially when you're being interviewed, when you're talking to people, because you have to listen because there's no script.

10:53You can't be thinking about what you're going to say ahead of time because you don't know what the question is going to be or what someone's going to say to you. So I think those improv skills do help me stay present and stay focused on the person that's talking to me. So when you guys shot the original Curb, which was most people don't know, it wasn't the half hour show. It was like it was sort of a mockumentary. What year was that? Do you even remember? It got to be early, like 2004, maybe something like that. You know what? You're going to be embarrassed when I say it. I'm even embarrassed when I say it.

11:28we shot that in 1999. Oh my God. I mean, that's. I don't know if it aired in 99 or if it aired in 2000, but that was, that's when it was all happening. Wow. That is wild. So you shoot that hour show, which at that point they didn't know was going to turn into the sitcom. And I remember watching that, even though I knew Larry through Seinfeld, really not through, you know, there wasn't a ton of him on camera before that. But I remember watching that not fully getting whether it was real or not. And that's how good you guys were. I mean, really, that's true. Well, thank you for that. And that's, you know, all credited to Larry because, you know, he wanted it to seem real.

12:13And there were real people on the show. Richard Lewis, Jerry Seinfeld was on that one hour special. And so you had real people. And when they cast me, I had heard that they were looking for an unknown actress. So that worked in my favor. But somebody that they, you know, could blur the line with that, you know, if somebody famous came on the screen, they'd say, oh, that's the actress from, you know. whatever. But because it was me, and nobody had really seen me unless you saw Swamp Thing. I did see Swamp Thing, actually. I am a child of the 80s. Wait, but honestly, I don't remember that you were in it.

13:03Well, no, because you probably saw the movie. Yeah, the movie. No, and then they did a TV show based on the movie that was shot in Orlando, and I had a really great part in one episode. Oh, wow. So you were a big star before all of this. Huge. The movie was actually pretty great. All right, I'm going to hunt that episode down and see what's what. So you get the gig as Larry's wife, but you were an actress and you are an actress, used to be reading lines. So how did you even, did you want to do it that way? Did you like it? How crazy was that learning curve? Well, I was already performing at a theater called The Groundlings in Los Angeles, which is all improv and sketch comedy.

13:53So I had been through a lot of training for improv. Otherwise, I would never have gotten that part on Curb Your Enthusiasm because, like you said, there was no script. And even when I went in to audition, there's no script. They didn't tell me anything about the show, what I was auditioning for. So I actually really like working that way. It's really different, you know, as an actor, because all of my training before that was the answer is in the script. Right. Everything you need to know about your performance is in the script. Every, you know, comma, everything that other characters say about you, all the answers are there.

14:38And then once you learn to disconnect from all of that, and then you start, you learn that all the answers are in the person that you're doing the scene with. So I've. And it's a really fun way to work. Yeah. So to that point, I've seen Larry talk about this on a couple interviews. But basically, he would just give you like, he'd be like, OK, we're in the bedroom. And you would sort of just know where it kind of has to end. And then you were pretty much like playing around the whole time. Well, no, sometimes we wouldn't even know where it has to end. But Larry would write a story outline. So we might, you know, he might say before the scene, you're going to tell me that your parents are coming to stay for three weeks.

15:21That's it. That's all he would say. But I would know even from that information, three weeks is a long time for anybody to stay with someone. I can only imagine that this is not going to go well with Larry. but um so i would i would kind of you know that's all the information i would get and that's the information i would use so so we would do the scene there would be no rehearsal and um as a matter of fact i'll tell you that this made me laugh at the time um there was no rehearsal which as an actor you usually have rehearsal for performance and for a camera but we had two cameras rolling all the time.

16:05And they were handheld. And it was just, you know, grabbing whoever was speaking. But this one actress, great actress, was guest starring. And we were about to do a scene about looking at a house. You guys did move a lot, which I remember. I remember hearing Larry. I saw Larry speak at the 92nd Street Y once. And one time he said one season we moved just because they lost the lease on the house, the film company. Yeah, we always had a different house and we never even said why. But the actress, before the scene, we don't talk about the scene. We don't rehearse it. If anything, we do gibberish just to let the camera crew know where I might walk over here, blah, blah, blah.

16:50I might say something to Larry. Then I might sit down. That would be as much as we'd rehearse. so before the scene started this actress comes over and she says to me and larry how long have you two been looking at houses and i said oh i you know not that not that long and larry said what are we doing i said oh this is you know an actor's previous moment where the scene starts And he's like, we don't do that. And I felt so sorry for this great actress that's just trying to, you know, commit to the craft. So to that point, did you find that some of the cast of characters enjoyed that more than others?

17:35Like, to me, it always seemed like Susie, like, really must have freaking loved dropping those F-bombs. And you know who I think was like the unsung hero of the show, actually, was Super Dave Osborne. I mean, he was, it was almost insane how funny he was actually, because it was so straight and dry and he was just unbelievable. He was so crazy and funny, like you said. And then sometimes we'd be doing a scene and in the middle of the scene, he'd say to Larry, well, remember when Cheryl and I went away together for a week? And Larry's like, what are you doing? He's just, what are you talking about?

18:24And he's like, no good. And Larry's like, how would that fit into? what's going on here? But yeah, he was always very, very funny. Did some of the guys like it more, the crazy improv stuff and some not, or some get in there and just not be able to do it the way you thought they could? No, that's a good question because a lot of people had to audition even if they were established actors because it is a different way of working. And some actors don't like it. Some actors are they, you know, like I said, they're trained with, to read from a script and get their information. Once in a while, I was, I was in the casting sessions, especially, especially probably the first five seasons or, or something.

19:19But, but an actor would come in to improvise with, you know, us, the cast members. And sometimes that would throw actors off the bat because you usually as an actor are not going in to audition with the people that are in the show and then i remember a one guy who auditioned he was a young guy this is after the show had been on for a little while and you know once again there's no script and he was doing an improv with larry and he could not stop laughing and larry said what are you what are you doing because i don't know you you make me laugh so much i cannot and larry's well you got you have to do the scene.

20:00I mean, you got to get through the scene. And they'd start the scene again, and he would laugh so much. And then, you know, Larry, everybody's laughing. But Larry's like, I can't cast you. You can't even do the scene. And the audition, he's like, I know I can't. Don't have to. I won't be able to do it. And he didn't get the gig, I take it. No, didn't get the gig. I mean, that's funny. Well, how did you feel in the, like, sort of season and a half when you were in it, you know, towards the end where you were in it much less because of the divorce and everything? Because I thought, even though, I'm blanking on her name, the black actress that was his wife at that point.

20:36Vivica Fox, thank you. Even though they were great together, they really were, like, the obvious thing was the love between you guys and the good cop, bad cop thing. And when that was gone, I do think it shifted the show a little bit. Yeah. It was hard. It was hard because I love Larry and I loved Larry and Cheryl together. And I remember, I don't know what season it was, but I remember a scene. So this must have been after we got divorced or separated or something. We were in, we were at a party. This is in the scene. I think John Legend was singing, if that makes sense. And I was dancing with the guy that I had met on the plane when I thought the plane was going down.

21:31And I called Larry to say goodbye and I love you. And the Tebow guy was there and he couldn't talk. Right, right, right. That's what sparked the divorce. But I remember I was dancing with my guy and he was dancing with Vivica. And I looked over at them dancing. And it got to me that I drove home thinking, why am I so upset about Larry dancing with Vivica? This is a TV show. I need to bring it down. It's OK. It's OK. But it did make me sad, you know. Did he sit you down and say, hey, you're not going to be in it as much, you know, for this next season and a half or whatever it was? Well, I did get a call from him saying, well, I've got, you know, I got to tell you something that you're probably not going to love it.

22:24I said, okay. And he said, we're going to do another season, but you're not going to be in it. I said, okay. And he said, I want to date on the show. I feel like I have some funny stuff to do. and uh so i'm gonna they did a season in new york yeah and i wasn't in it at all yeah and then after that i didn't know if i would if i would ever be in it you know because he because of the storyline but then the season after that i was i was in it not not as much as it was but um but it was nice to go back how was uh how was ted danson going back to that acting thing for a second because here's a guy who comes out of traditional sitcom, we're going to tell you when to laugh, laugh track stuff, and you're working with all these guys that have come out of the stand-up world, really.

23:16But he seemed pretty great to me at it. He's so great, and he's a great actor anyway because he does really listen. But the thing that he does so well is he knows what will bother Larry. so when we were shooting the seeds he knows exactly what would bother Larry you know if we if Ted and I were in a scene and we're sitting on the couch you know and Larry's in mid-sentence Ted might reach over and hold my hand and rub my leg or something just little tiny things that he knows will bother Larry but he's so great at that and he always knew what his role was on the show his role was just to drive Larry crazy yeah I love one of the episodes I loved was The Anonymous oh yeah yeah yeah I'm anonymous Yeah, we go to a fundraiser and everybody's making, and Larry had donated a lot.

24:32And then this anonymous donor had donated and everybody's making a big deal about the anonymous donor. Cause wow, they didn't even want credit for it. This is amazing. And then, you know, Ted comes up and says, I'm the anonymous donor. And he's like, why are you, why are you telling us if you were anonymous? You know, and I'm like, wow, that is amazing, Kevin. I love that. And then, of course, the more we talk about it, the crazier it makes Larry. Right. And then he's getting beat up by those guys at the end and he can't get in because he's anonymous, but they don't believe it. It was just so, it was so brilliant.

25:08I mean, were there episodes that you guys would be doing and somehow, for whatever reason, he would change the end? Or was the end just kind of always basically there? The end was always there. the end was always there but you know what's interesting when i watched the finale of the series the series finale because i had not seen it until it aired i kept thinking i wonder if there's i wonder if there's an ending to this that i don't know about i because we all get on a we're all on the plane yeah and i thought for one second is the plane gonna go down I'm just going to die at the end of this episode because that seemed like something that Larry might do.

25:57But I won't spoil it for anybody that hasn't seen it. I'm pretty sure anyone watching my show has seen it or I've referenced every episode, you know, a hundred times or whatever. But how much do you think the fact that, and I thought the ending of Seinfeld was great. And I know Larry, I think, liked it more than it was received, I guess. But do you think that was really like ringing in his head that people sort of turned on it at the end of Seinfeld that then he had to do the ending a little bit differently because when you because when you guys all got on the plane at the end I actually thought they were just going to recreate it again and that the plane was going to start crashing or something like that um I think by that time in Larry's career where he did not give a flying fucker ball, what anybody thought.

26:45But that being said, you know, we did do a season with a Seinfeld reunion. And that was part of the joke in the storyline was people kept saying how bad the ending of Seinfeld was, which is, you know, was of course insulting to Larry. And he's, he's standing right there and he's, He's like, it wasn't that bad. Yeah, it was bad. It was bad. Let's do this better. So, you know, but that's, you know, Larry's gift because he can laugh at himself. It's really funny. Were you ever worried about any of the racial, obviously there was a ton of racial stuff and a ton of making fun of mentally handicapped people and Jews and Muslims and Christians, I mean, everything, everything, everything.

27:34But were you ever worried that you guys were going to step in it or there was going to be any blowback? because somehow the show totally skipped cancel culture. I don't know how. I really do not know how. But I wouldn't say I was worried, but it was pretty interesting that it seemed to skip over, I'll say us, but it was really Larry. You know what I mean? But it is surprising. But maybe by the time cancel culture rolled around, Larry had already made fun of everybody. And so people knew he wasn't targeting one group. And he makes fun of himself so much that I guess he got grandfathered in. Probably.

28:29What was it like working with Richard Lewis? because if I could just tell you for one second, truly one of the best moments of my career was I interviewed Richard Lewis when we still lived in L.A. and he came to my house and I loved, obviously, you can see how much I love the show and I've loved him since I saw him on Young Comics on HBO in like 1982 or something. And at the end of the interview, we had such a great time together and, you know, obviously he was a germaphobe, sort of, Larry's got a lot of that and I'm sure he probably didn't touch you that often but when he walked in, he gave me the fist bump, kind of the Larry David fist bump.

29:01But at the end, as he was walking out of my house, he goes, Dave, I want you to know, you know, you're a really great interviewer. And he put his hand on my face like this. And it was just like this, like, bizarrely nice moment. I was like, I can't believe it. He doesn't touch anyone. And he like this. And I was like, I'm always going to remember that. Richard Lewis touched my face. what was it like working with him well I do write about this in my book because I loved Richard and like you I was a huge fan of his before I got to work with him on Curb and when I was younger I used to have the biggest crush on Richard Lewis really oh my gosh he did a show with Jamie Lee Curtis.