Witness Reveals His Chilling Warning to Charlie Kirk Before His Death | Frank Turek

0:00When we were coming into the venue, maybe a half hour out, Charlie got footage on his cell phone. And I originally thought it was drone footage, but in retrospect, there was a bridge above us, a building above us, that someone could have just put their phone, people could walk up there, put their phone out there and get an aerial shot. And he got this aerial shot of this amazing crowd with all these buildings around it. And I literally said to him, I said, Charlie, I don't like this place. There are too many buildings. And he just kind of shrugged it off because he was brave and we had a security team there.

0:31And he knew that in order to reach people, you can't completely wall yourself off. You've got to make yourself somewhat vulnerable. So he went through with the whole thing.

0:48I'm Dave Rubin. This is The Rubin Report. And joining me today is a Christian apologist, friend and mentor to the great Charlie Kirk and author of the newly released book this week, actually, The War on Reality, Recovering Truth in a World That Celebrates Lies. Dr. Frank Turek. Frank, it's good to see you. Dave, last time I saw you, I think, was at the memorial service. We happened to run into one another. 100 ,000 people. And I see you. and that still seems surreal to me that we're even talking about this now. Yeah, well, that was about a year ago, minus a week, but since we are airing this, we're taping this on September 9th, we're airing this on September 10th, the one-year anniversary of Charlie's death, I thought maybe we could just spend just a few minutes up top.

1:37I really mostly want to focus on Charlie, his ideas, and your relationship with him, which was very rich and deep and all of that. If we could just flash back to that day for a moment, because obviously you were with Charlie in Utah, you were in the car. I think a lot of people have heard the story, but for those who haven't, if you just want to share a little bit about that and then we'll go from there. Well, let's start a couple of days prior to that on September 8th, which was a Monday. Charlie and I were meeting because we're trying to sharpen one another to answer questions on a college campus and he wanted me to help him do that.

2:11But to tell you the truth, David, I probably learned more from him than he learned from me. And I was twice his age. But anyway, on September 8th at night, he would sometimes say, let's go out after I put the kids down and just go on a walk and talk. And the three issues he brought up that night, Dave, he brought up the government and particularly Islam. He was concerned that Islam, rightfully so, is not compatible with the United States Constitution nor the freedoms we experience here, so he was concerned about that. Secondly, he was concerned about the family, because so many young people in his generation were not getting married and having kids.

2:50And then the third thing he was interested in was what I tend to do on college campuses, is providing evidence that God exists and Jesus rose from the dead and Christianity is true. And I didn't think about this until after the murder, I said Charlie was talking about the three institutions God created, The government, the family and the church. And the very next day, a year ago today, we were in a meeting, Dave, that Charlie called via Zoom with two Israeli officials in Israel, one here in America. and then it was myself, Charlie, Blake Neff, and Mikey McCoy in this meeting. And the entire premise of the meeting was Charlie asking them questions.

3:37Tell me your perspective as to what's going on with the current Israeli-Hamas conflict. Translation, Charlie was not giving up on Israel. He was doing his homework. He wanted to be better informed so he could better answer questions, hostile questions on the college campus. So when you add all this up, the four things Charlie was concerned about in the final day of his life was the government, the family, the church, and Israel. And he was such a big picture strategic thinker. He was concerned about the big issues, the right issues to be concerned about. And so when he was murdered that day, I just reflected back on it all and said, this man was a once-in-a-generation leader who I had the privilege to know, you had the privilege to know.

4:29And as you know, Dave, Charlie had so many mentors around him. It wasn't just me, Dennis Prager, who you just had on, a mentor to him. You probably had influence over him too. He had people in government that mentored him. He had people in the church that mentored him. He had people who were further down the road than him because he knew in order to be effective, he needed to learn from other people. And he did that. He was amazing. You know, in that we have a way of, you know, sort of lionizing people once they're gone. Do you, did you realize, I know we all realize it now. I get it now. I realize it now.

5:11When I was at diners with him, I never realized it, but I realize it now. But in that you were so close with him, Did you feel there was something else about him? Like when you took that walk a day or two before he left, did you think, boy, he's really on the right mark about what life is? Or is that just something that you realized in retrospect? No, from the beginning. In fact, I told him many times, I said, Charlie, I've been waiting for you for 30 years. Because I've been looking for somebody who was politically engaged, and as a Christian, I wanted somebody politically engaged that wasn't shy about his Christianity.

5:51Because so many of the Christian politicians will talk about God in generic terms. They won't talk about him in specific terms. They'll talk about a creator, you know, that kind of thing. But they won't really get into the nitty-gritty of Jesus or the details of the Scripture. Charlie, in fact, Charlie used to say this. He would sometimes get donors come to him and say, hey, Charlie, we really like all your conservative principles, but can you kind of keep the religion, Christianity thing out of it? And Charlie would tell them, without Jesus, we've got nothing. Please give your money to somebody else.

6:26In fact, in August of 2025, he was getting some pushback from some donors about what was going on with Israel. He wasn't giving up on Israel, but he said, I don't need to approve of everything Israel does. And he's right. He doesn't. None of us do. I don't approve of everything my own government does. Of course. Yeah, right. And I'd never forget this. We were getting off the elevator in his building and somebody was threatening to take a million dollar donation from him. And he said, I think I'm right. I'm not changing my position. And I looked at him. I said, Charlie, that's one reason I love you.

7:02You're not going to cave for money. And he wouldn't. He was just like you see on stage. He was the same person off stage as you know, Dave. Yeah. And it's so interesting that people, I mentioned this with Dennis as well, but it's so interesting to me that people made an issue about this, you know, what we know of as one text exchange with a donor because donors have a right to donate money and then ask of an organization what they wish. And then he, as the leader of the organization, has a right to either say no or I'm not going to take strings attached money or whatever else. It's exactly what happens in every nonprofit.

7:36So in some sense, you could actually argue that both the donor and Charlie were acting with integrity there. They both wanted a certain something. And those things perhaps didn't line up exactly right. But let's leave that there for a moment. Let's just talk about the day itself. And did you feel anything strange? You know, we've discussed this once before on camera, but did you feel anything strange that morning? And a little bit about those last moments with him. And then I really do want to focus on his ideas today. Yes, because when we were coming into the venue, maybe a half hour out, Charlie got footage on his cell phone.

8:13And I originally thought it was drone footage, but in retrospect, there was a bridge above us, a building above us that someone could have just put their phone, people could walk up there, put their phone out there and get an aerial shot. And he got this aerial shot of this amazing crowd with all these buildings around it. And I literally said to him, I said, Charlie, I don't like this place. There are too many buildings. And he just kind of shrugged it off because he was brave and we had a security team there. And he knew that in order to reach people, you can't completely wall yourself off. You've got to make yourself somewhat vulnerable.

8:46So he went through with the whole thing. And I tell the whole story in the first chapter of the war on reality, what happened. But with the first question, well, first of all, we're walking up to this breezeway under this building where the crowd is behind it, Dave. And it was like a Trump rally without Trump. All only more enthusiastic. And they're not there, Dave, to hear a speech. They're here to hear some guy answer questions. and so we we we walk in and the energy of the crowd is so palpable i i felt like they were too close to us you know because could someone just have a gun i thought like a handgun right right here right right at the barrier and uh but the security team was there and charlie starts flipping hats somebody hands me a row of hats i'm flipping hats and then charlie says okay hey, it's time to go, and he gets under the tent.

9:44And the very first question we had was about Mormonism. We knew that we'd get that question. We're in Utah. And so we answered that question. The second question was about trans-related violence. And ironically, that was the question he was answering when he was shot. And I was about 15 feet to his right, off his right elbow, and I saw him hit and go limp. And I took a step toward him, but his security team was closer than I was. They were on him right away. So I wound up just running with them to the car, to the SUV. And then, you know, we just got him in the car. I was over the back seat looking down on him, but he wasn't looking at me.

10:32He was looking right past me into eternity. His eyes were fixed. We couldn't stop the bleeding. and it was at the very end of the ride that I tried to give him CPR because I thought to myself, he's been without, he hasn't been breathing for at least like eight or nine minutes. If there's some way we could revive him, they could revive him in the emergency room, I'm going to feel awful if I didn't at least try to get air in him, you know. So I tried, nothing happened. But they did get a heartbeat when we got to the emergency room. the doctor later told us you can get a heartbeat on somebody that's already dead if they have a healthy body so we thought there was a ray of hope but about 30 minutes i'd say after we got there the surgeon walks out into the hall and we're just kind of all standing around just shut in shock and the surgeon says it like this he goes he's dead he didn't say we tried everything He didn't say, I'm sorry.

11:36He just came out and he said, he's dead. I can't unhear that. And Mikey was on the phone with J.D. Vance standing right next to me. And so he starts shaking.

11:52And he's already called to get Erica.

11:57Get a plane to get Erica there because Erica's in Phoenix. We're in Utah. And I'd say probably maybe three hours later, Erica walks into the emergency room just looking like death, as you can imagine. And it was about two hours after that. I'd say about 530. I'm the only one left in the emergency room. Erica and Mikey and others are meeting with the surgeon and Charlie's body. And they come downstairs and I have to like, I have to hit a button to let them into the emergency room. And Erica sees me and I see her for the, she sees me for the first time. And she comes up to me in tears and embraces me and says, he loved you.

12:50He loved what he was doing. Please don't let his legacy die. Those were her words. And so for the past year, I'm doing everything I can. Nobody's going to ever replace Charlie, but I'm doing everything I can to go to college campuses and do what he was doing. And others are doing that as well. Yeah, have you found, well, I guess you just answered the question, but I know it is absolutely true that I have felt it more incumbent upon me in the last year to do better at what I do. I can't do it at Charlie's level. But I just feel it's important because he loomed so large. So it's interesting to hear you say that, and I've heard other people say it as well.

13:33Yes, we, you know, the we are Charlie Kirk that the left mocks is really true. From my perspective, from a Christian perspective, the Apostle Paul said, emulate me as I emulate Christ. Was Charlie perfect? No. There's only one perfect person in history, Jesus. However, as he emulated Christ, he's an example to us, so I'm trying to emulate what he was doing. And look, I've been on college campuses for a couple of decades, and that's why Charlie reached out to me. But I learned more from him than he learned from me. He was so gifted, as you know, Dave. I mean, and there's only three ways you can learn something.

14:12You can learn something through direct revelation from God. You can learn from your own experience. You can learn from other people's experience. We don't have enough time to learn from our own experience, so you have to learn from others. And that's why Charlie surrounded himself with people who were further down the road than he was. I mean, he was just totally a sponge with people. He wanted to know. He wanted to learn. And to show you what kind of humility he had, Dave, I had a guy once. Well, Charlie texted me, said, do you know this guy? he was a Christian apologist who was being a jerk to Charlie and had put out a video claiming that Charlie didn't know what he was talking about about certain arguments for God and I said yeah I know him do you want me to reach out to him he said yeah if you would that would be helpful so I did and this guy said I'll only talk to Charlie he wants me to take down the video.

15:07I'll only talk to Charlie. So I went back to Charlie. I said, Charlie, I know this guy. He's not really a big player. He's just being a jerk. Yeah, you said things, a few things that were inarticulate, but he will only talk to you. Do you want to give him your cell phone number? Do you want me to give him your cell phone number? And he said, yeah, I'll talk to him. He said, blessed are the peacemakers. And then he gets this guy on the phone and he says, look, man, I'm just getting started in this Christian apologetics thing. I agree with you. I didn't really articulate those arguments very well.

15:44But would you give me a break and take your video down? Because it's not really representative of what I'm trying to do. And we're all on the same team. And oh, by the way, I really look forward to learning from you. I mean, talk about humility, Dave. That's Charlie. That's Charlie. And so the guy agreed. And to this day, that's a lesson to me, that Charlie was following the scriptures better than I was, and I'm twice his age. Well, so what do you make of that he was following the scriptures better than you? I find that that's a tough one. But okay, he's followed the scriptures and that he also had, you know, a love for Judaism, that he would turn to you to learn the same way he would turn to Dennis Prager to learn.

16:34You know, the reason I'm asking you the question is because, you know, a year later after so much of the fighting around Charlie and, you know, people trying to take his words out of context and what did he believe, I'm interested in the fact that he loved learning from people from different walks of life. And he tried. He was obviously an evangelical Christian. And yet his last book was following the Jewish Sabbath. I don't see those things in conflict at all. I think that I think there's so much love around that. And it's something we should aspire to. So what do you make of that part of him?

17:05Well, because he, let me put it this way. Charlie got his politics from his theology, not the other way around. He doesn't get his theology from his politics. Politics didn't drive Charlie. His theology drove him to the proper view of politics. and the proper view of politics from a biblical perspective is that God has a special place for Israel. As Jesus himself said, salvation is from the Jews. He's a Jew himself. He goes to the cross and takes our punishment upon himself. And by trusting in him, we're not only forgiven, but given his righteousness. And so it comes and he has a future for Israel.

17:46The nation of Israel, even though the nation of Israel is in unbelief right now, As it was throughout most of the Old Testament as well. If you look at the Old Testament kings, all of the, I think, 19 kings of the Old Testament, Israel, were evil. And only a few from Judah, the southern kingdom, were good. All the rest were evil as well. So Israel has a history of being what we call apostate, yet Charlie knew that God has a future for Israel. And it's the only democracy surrounded, as you well know, by millions of Muslims who do not believe in democracy or the freedoms that we enjoy here in the West.

18:32It's the size of New Jersey. But out of the 50 or so Muslim countries around the world, they have far fewer freedoms than the Arab citizens of Israel. If anybody's an apartheid state, it's not Israel. so Charlie knew this. You're preaching a lot of the stuff I endlessly drone on about on the show. And I just, and I just wish people could understand the basic reality. I know we only have a few minutes left today and we're doing so much about Charlie that I hope people will just get a nice bite of this and then check out your other work and your new book and everything. I want to ask you about in that he was known as a, he was a religious figure of some sense and a political figure of some sense.

19:16One of the things that I was most impressed by is that he was able to take both of those and blend them and make that something that more people could come into the fold with. So for example, he would go to college campuses and there's a great, there's several of these, but there's one that particularly rings out to me where a student comes up to him, he's probably, I don't know, 19 year old kid, 18 year old kid and says that he's gay but he loves freedom and he loves America and all the stuff that any sane person should love. And Charlie talks about his own personal religious belief, but then also talks about why this kid should want limited government and freedom and all of these things.

19:57And they may have a sort of religious disagreement. He doesn't even phrase it that way. It's even softer than that, but why they're on the same team. And to me, that's the best of what this all can be. well as charlie was the only person a year ago who could keep ben shapiro and tucker carlson in the same room right he would say to them do you want to get 80 of what you want or zero percent of what you want right now that that's gone um and tucker's going off into la la land uh there's nobody really to do that uh for the record i as you know i have tried and it has not worked So I don't have that magic, apparently, that Charlie had.

20:37And that is what it is. Well, Dave, you can only do what you can do. People make their own decisions, right? And even Charlie, you know, couldn't get everything he wanted either. So he was just a gifted individual all around. And it was a tragic day a year ago. But the only thing Tyler Robinson did was change Charlie's address. Yes. Charlie is with the Lord now, and it's up to the rest of us now to pick up where Charlie was leading. And he was, in my view, following the scriptures and doing what was right, good, and true. People didn't always like it. You notice that when people start speaking too much truth, there's a demonic element that says, we don't want to hear this anymore.

21:23Um, Charlie was somebody that the left, uh, obviously thought was worth stopping. And, uh, that's what they tried to do. Let me ask you one other question, which is sort of about the timing of all this. And I'm curious if maybe you think there's a divine reason around this. Obviously, uh, Charlie was murdered the day before the anniversary of September 11th. We are now rolling into the 25th anniversary. We have someone who's the mayor of New York City who is completely at odds with virtually every political belief and theological belief that Charlie had. It feels important to me that these two events are back to back and will be etched in the American mind back to back.

22:08There seems to be something deep there. When I went to New York City last year, I was going to New York City last year to do events for September 11th, and then the entire trip got changed because of Charlie's assassination. And in a weird way, this is going to sound crazy, but it's just how I felt on that day. In a weird way, September 11th felt small compared to what happened to Charlie. I'm not comparing or contrasting or anything else. But the fact that these two days will be hopefully honored in this country going forward and they are back to back, I think there's something there. You know, Dave, in 2016, Charlie Kirk put out a tweet that said, you can tell a lot about somebody by how they react when someone dies.

22:57And when Charlie was murdered, there was a memorial service and a worship service that reached millions of people online. yet tragically people on the other side of the political aisle many of them celebrated his death and still celebrate and mock his death that says a lot more about them and the darkness in their hearts whether there is some sort of divine connection between 910 and 911 I don't know It may have just been coincidence that Tyler Robinson had an opportunity on 9-10.

23:43But these two days are days of mourning, but also hope, because we know the story doesn't end with the death of someone. There is an afterlife. There is a provision to get to the afterlife with the Lord. And we're going to actually celebrate that tonight. This is going to be aired on 910. Well, tonight, we're going back to UVU, Dave, and in the basketball arena. I'll be there. Glenn Beck will be there. Mikey McCoy will be there. There'll be several other speakers and a worship band. we're going to celebrate Charlie's life again. And people can get details on that if they go to charliekirklegacy.com, charliekirklegacy.com.

24:29But if you're not near Utah, I believe it will be streamed on the TPUSA YouTube channel. So I hope people will remember Charlie and pick up the cross that he was bearing. He really felt a real deep passion for those four things I mentioned at the top, for the government, politics, for the family, for the church, and for Israel. And in 31 years, he did more, Dave, than any 10 ,000 people I know do in 80. So it was a life well lived, let's put it that way. Indeed it was. And Frank and everyone watching this, our work is cut out for us. Frank, I thank you for your time. I'll have you on again soon to talk more about your book and some of your other ideas.

25:22And I hope that, well, I have no doubt, actually, that the event you guys are about to put on is going to be as impactful as the memorial that we last saw each other at. So I thank you a lot, Frank. Can I say one more thing, Dave? Sure, of course, of course. It's just in support of Erica. She wrote the foreword for this book, but you don't need to buy the book to read the foreword. Just go to Amazon and look under editorial comments, and you'll see her entire two-page foreword. I cried when I read this because – well, you'll see. Just go there and read. It's two and a half pages. Charlie did not just marry that woman for her beauty.

26:04She is an amazing woman. And that forward, when you see that, you'll go, yeah, this woman has not deserved the slander she's gotten over the past year. She's a beacon for Jesus. She's a beacon for decency. She's just an amazing woman. Just read the forward. We're going to link down to the Amazon link as well. And as you know, the book is on the way to my house right now. So thank you, Frank. Thank you, brother. Thank you.