How to Secure $25 Million in Series A Funding

0:00Ben Murray: Greetings, everyone. I'm excited to welcome Lyndon Stickley, CEO of iPlissa and Rob Steele, CFO at iPlissa. Welcome to the show, guys. Nice to be here. Nice to meet you. Yeah, nice to, yeah. Great to have you here. Yeah. So, yeah, looking forward to this. We had scheduling here and there, but now we're finally here and, yeah, excited about this conversation. But first, guys, maybe Lyndon, if you want to kick off, tell us, tell me a little bit about your background. on? I've been building startups to scale ups for my entire career. First one was in the 90s in telecommunications. That went from five of us to 120.

0:34And we took it from zero income to about 12, just over 12 million pounds at the time. And we exited in the US in 98. So my first exit was then a$40 million sale. And that then turned me into effectively a sort hands-on VC and I built six other businesses since and Ipliss is the seventh of those. A career of building things from relatively small numbers to a size where it's then handed over to a more sort of scale-up growth team. Ipliss it though is the final build for me and the one that won't get handed over.

1:12Ben Murray: Okay, interesting. Yeah, so serial entrepreneur plus an investing side and then yeah Rob, tell us a little bit about your background. Yeah, very different. So I've been in accounting software my whole life or certainly my whole working life but always more through a commercial lens than a pure finance one. I co-founded a company in the UK called Exchequer Software back in the very late 80s and built that for the next 18 years. So we were a mid-market finance software product, very similar space to where Iplicit sits today and yeah we eventually merged that with iris software and then it became part of advanced offering in 2005 or 2007 i think actually and yeah i did various things after that and yeah and then i actually met linden back in the back in the 80s and our paths then crossed again when when he'd introduced me to the founder of implicit okay all right long yeah obviously long history here in tech so So let's dive into it.

2:17Ben Murray: So iPlicit, tell us, what product center services does it offer? iPlicit is core finance software, and its origin really matters to the story here because I didn't found iPlicit. Rob and I are the founding team that brought it to life. But the founding engineers of iPlicit spent 20 years implementing large-scale ERP. So they were specialist implementation consultants in SAP, Agresso, Unit 4 type propositions, Oracle as well. And after two decades of implementing bespoke setups, which took between one and three years on site, systems costing millions, they decided they could build something better.

2:59And so the founder of that original implementation consultancy spent every penny he had and then some investing over three million pounds in the build of a platform that he felt could change the world in finance software. And the premise was, we can do everything all the big guys can do, but without the disruption, without the high ticket, and without just the pain that comes in spades over years in trying to implement ERP in large scale. And he wanted to develop a mid-market proposition that could be, instead of months and years, it could be weeks, days and weeks. And he did that. And he delivered something that was almost there before he was about to go broke.

3:42And then Rob and I rocked up, identified that this was a real opportunity. And then we worked with him in being able to breathe life into that, target a specific audience in the UK, bring it to market. But his pedigree comes from the major global systems. And yet it's being applied to a mid-market, which we feel has been orphaned for a decade or more now.

4:04Ben Murray: And so finance software can be a lot of things, but would you say, are you the general ledger? Are you the accounting software, the accounting ERP? Yes, we are the core accounting software. And then ERP means different things to different people. And in the mid-market, it's really termed finance software versus ERP. ERP starts to give people nightmares. But do we have a whole bunch of additional facilities around the general ledger? We absolutely do. Whether that's from project costing, automated payables, bank rec, and so on. There's a whole bunch of things we do, but equally our philosophy is best of breed in core finance with an open API and now with MCP with AI as well, enabling best of breed, whether that will be for payroll, HR, CRM, you name it, a whole bunch of external apps to be able to let the mid-market have an ecosystem that's not locked in by one vendor.

4:56Ben Murray: And so the timeline of this company will be interesting because obviously you guys know a lot of investment has gone into general ledgers in the last couple of years. So when was it initially founded and then when did you guys hop on board? The tech started to be developed around 2016. For 2016 to 2019 was the lion's share of the original system. Rob and I got on board in 2018, 2017, 2018. And actually we facilitated the launch in 2019. So this has been in market seven and a half years. We've gone from our very first user back in January 2019 to now over 50 ,000 users a day. Also, we anticipated to start with this would be a small investment.

5:45It would be a small gig because Rob mentioned in his background, he actually was the founder of a company called Exchequer Software that had put 3 ,000 systems into the UK market. We knew those systems were getting along in the tooth. We knew that the vendor that bought them didn't have a cloud strategy. And therefore, our logic back in 2019 was we can lift this software. We can target the Exchequer base. We knew who they were. We could go to them and say, hey, guys, remember us? We put in your original system 15 years ago. We're back. Back was Windows in a DOS world. Now it's cloud in an on-premises world.

6:19And our whole thesis was we were going to build a proposition that was just cloud first. It was a cloud first proposition to be the exchequer savior. We thought we'd build up a relatively small business, build it up to 50 or so people, and then that would be something we'd package up and move on. What we realized very quickly was the salvation for the exchequer user was also the salvation for the Sage 50, the Sage 100, the Sage 200 user, the Great Plains, Navision, SAP Business One, Pegasus, Access, PS Financials. And suddenly our minds were blown apart with our investment thesis and our approach because in our first year of launch, we started getting a lot of inquiries from target audiences that we weren't targeting, from narrow target audiences.

7:04And so we revisited and our first investment was a million pounds. And we felt that was a good starter fund. Very quickly, we changed that to$4 million. And then very quickly, that grew into bootstrapping to$18.5 million of our own money. About$25 million of our own money went into this before we sought for a Series A, which again, goes to the level of opportunity we think we've got here.

7:28Ben Murray: And we'll talk about the Series A in just a sec, but I'm curious with, there's been a bit of a rebirth in accounting software, and I've run my tech stack for a while now where you have different verticals and different companies target different verticals in the SaaS software space. They're the major players there. Then all of a sudden, new players coming in. So who are you? Do you, are you horizontal or are you targeting specific industries for your software? Because our system is so configurable and all, one of the primary pillars of the way this was built was all the configuration is in the data, not in the code.

8:01So rather than you go in with these large scale ERP systems and you have engineers running on bespoke code for months at a time. And then if it breaks down the line, you need engineers back in. The very basis of this was it's got to be all configurable within the data. And so it means that the system is very applicable to multiple verticals. Now, from a GTM perspective, we do pick on verticals to get traction, to get a fan base and to be able to go in and fly the flag in certain areas. But actually right now, you'll find that we're very strong in nonprofits, in education, in tech, in care homes, in housing associations, property management, recruitment, and so on.

8:38Because the essence of the core financials that are required in those industries are all the same. And the thing that typically differentiates them is the ecosystem around it. Whereas if you're not trying to be a vendor that tries to lock these people into one specific system, if you've got an open API and an ability to be able to plug into industry-specific vertical systems, whether it's fund raising systems, donor systems, care home management, and so on, it means that we've got the flexibility of moving horizontally across the whole Sage 50 base. And if you just to picture the market we're in just in the UK and Ireland, the 15, 18, no, 20 years ago now, NetSuite came in and it really took away the top tier of all the Sage base and the Microsoft base.

9:20It came in and put everyone on notice with Trueplow Solution. and then 15 years ago, zero came and it took the legs away. It really put QuickBooks on notice, mind your own business and Sage 50. So you had this proliferation of high-end cloud, true cloud, and this low-end true cloud. And it left this orphaned mid-market. And in the UK and Ireland, what we see is when you're too big for zero, but you can't stomach the disruption or the cost for NetSuite, you're in this orphaned Sage 50, the sort of access dimensions type of space. And get this, that space is about 100 ,000 sites in the UK and Ireland alone, which ACV for our system is about 21K in pounds, Sterling.

10:01So you're talking about a 2.1 billion pound recurring market that's left orphaned on tech that's really 10 years out of date. Okay.

10:11Ben Murray: Interesting. Yeah. That's a great landscape because, yeah, a lot of change and players going after different segments, whether it's SMB, mid-market, enterprise. But you mentioned, let's talk fundraising for a little bit here. You mentioned a lot of your own capital going in, but then you said you had a Series A. So Series A was about 25 million pounds? Yeah. Okay. Right. And that was, yeah, a couple of years ago? 18 months ago now. 18 months. 18 months ago. Yeah. And we could have followed our money further. We're a very successful leadership team. We've all done this before, several times. And we got to the point where we looked at it and we said, it's now not about money.

10:48It's actually about connections. It's about scale-up. It's about doors opening. We looked at the 18 and a half million mark and we said, do you know what? Now's the time to open up to a growth fund that can really start to assist us with the networks, the access to the tech advancement, and then just a general community awareness of this sort of fast growth scale-up. And I think I mentioned earlier before we were recording, we've got 165 growth funds that now track us with interest. At the time we raised, it was about a hundred. And so I just put a small note out and said, we're thinking of raising 10 million.

11:23We don't need more than 10 million, but we're thinking of raising 10 million. I have 58 expressions of interest within 24 hours. And everyone, it was like they'd all gone to the same playbook. Everyone said, we can't do less than 20 million. And so immediately everyone was like, we want to give you at least 20. We ended up nailing it down to about 11 seven really competitive bidders. And then there were five we identified that were all excellent potential partners. And then we nailed it down to one pig that without a doubt were the best of the bunch. And we allowed them to invest 25 million in the round.

11:54And since then, we've never looked back.

11:57Ben Murray: Okay. And so it sounds like, and I asked what was the trigger for the raise, but in this case, it sounds like maybe you had the capital, but you said, yeah, it was about that ecosystem, the network that fit with an investor and how can that help you scale? Yeah, exactly. Exactly that. Because I think they've got a portfolio of other SaaS companies, very similar stage to us. Most of them actually a bit further down the journey than we are. And so they're exposed to a whole bunch of growth challenges and they've got the answers to quite a lot of them. And I think that was the big attraction to OnePeak was just the resources they had available, whether it's on the engineering side, the product management side, get a market, they had specialists available, panel of people who could give us cheat codes just to accelerate a little bit quicker.

12:48Ben Murray: Okay, okay, so it makes sense. So it sounds like you were pretty selective just with how, and maybe that culture fit with that fund too, of how you're going to work together and not just give me a check, see ya, but yeah, this is going to be a partnership going forward. Yeah, absolutely. Exactly. I think one thing that's really at the heart of what we do is culture. We're a very people-centric and people-first business, something you may not know, but we're almost entirely remote. So there's 225 of us and we've got one small office with about 25 people in it and 200 are remote across the UK and Ireland.

13:24And so culture and culture fit is a massive driver for us because we believe if you get the right small army of passionate people that have all got the same vision, purpose, and mission to climb that mountain and displace sage in the mid-market, we can move mountains. And so one Pete, without a doubt, shared that sort of gun-ho nature and that passion for disruption.

13:49Ben Murray: And I want to see if there's kind of one lesson that stood out from this or experience, because I talked to a lot of founders where they had to knock on 100 investor doors and maybe end up with one offer. In this case, it was a little bit different. A lot of folks had interest. So what do you think is important if founders or CEOs find themselves in that situation where there is a lot of interest? Any guidance there from your experience of how to run a process or finalize that selection? Yeah. Firstly, I'd say you've got to get yourself into the position of having a lot of interest because most people have done.

14:27Most people have got to do the reverse. And the trouble is the power dynamic changes immediately that you're knocking on their door. I've never made an outbound call to an investor because we've never had to. Now, how does that come about? It's not my network because actually the thing I didn't mention is of all the businesses I've grown, none of them have been in finance software. So I was not networked in this space. And the thing that I think is at the heart of our success and which will continue to be, and it also positioned us really well in the investment community, is we have absolutely crystal clear goals of our purpose, our vision, and our mission.

15:03And therefore, we put it out there very early. This is what we're doing. This is why we're doing it. This is how we're doing it. And it meant that we generated interest and then people would call us and then we share that passion. We'd share that mission. And then they'd call us again and say, we'd like to learn a bit more about this. We'd like to see it. Can we? And so it was more around the same sort of thing as business generation, but almost inadvertently because we were just doing it with market noise and awareness to the general market. And it was then getting picked up. Then the thing, when you've got that list of people that are interested, and there's definitely something to be said as well, when you're busy and you don't always just take their calls in a heartbeat, which is again, not deliberate, wasn't contrived.

15:43But quite often I say to investors, I can't talk to you for a month. I'm too busy and I don't need you right now. So call me next month when I'll find a slot. Growth funds aren't normally used to that. They're used to the fact that, great, let's talk about money. How much could you give us? And so the paradigm is a very important one. So I say, don't be too needy. And part of not being needy is make sure you've got your exposure to them when you don't need the money. Make sure it's early. Because if you go out and you need the exposure when you need it, you don't have a timeline to be able to afford you.

16:12You can't be aloof if you need it in six months, right? Whereas I was talking to our investors two years before I ever put a note out to anyone to say we might be interested in raising some funds. So those hundred had built up over a two-year period and I was putting them on a list and I was making sure they were kept in communication. And as I mentioned to you, we do report and accounts and we share information with our investors that we don't need to, but we treat them like a community that's monitoring a publicly floated company. Coming back to your question, if you've then got a bunch of interest like we had, and you get 58 funds say we're interested, then the first thing is I was super clear on what we wanted and what was a non-negotiable.

16:53And so it was, if you can't jump through these hoops, let's not bother. And so it was saying our stool, which again, I meant it, it wasn't facade, but it also communicates a ton of confidence. If you're prepared to talk to funds and say, if you can't meet this minimum criteria, you're not even at the dance. And so with many of them made them more keen because the whole thing was like, what do these guys got? What are they smoking? Or what is it they've got in their product? Because they're quite firm with us. So it's not the way we normally do business. But I just went back to them and I said, take a ticket.

17:26We've got a lot of people here. We've got to get through them all. Take a ticket. I'll provide you some content. I'll do an anonymous webinar. I'll answer questions. But the bottom line is I can't see you all one-to-one right now. I've got too many things going on. And so part of it was being firm and being confident. That's easy to say, though, is coming from a place where we are very firm and confident. If you're not and you need the money, that's much harder to do. And then we start early.

17:51Ben Murray: Yeah, appreciate the insight. And then let's talk about one of CFO's favorite topic, Rob, is go-to-market motion. And I assume you guys are going after controllers, the accounting persona, CFOs. But tell us a little bit about go-to-market. at how are you reaching your prospects today? How are you getting in front of people when we're just being inundated with emails and ads? And tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, I mean, it's been a real mix. So the whole journey, obviously, we've been on the journey for a while. And probably like most SaaS companies, we started off with a direct go-to-market motion, direct sales team, 100%.

18:23And just coming back to that kind of vertical horizontal, we absolutely probably focused 100 % on our initially it would have been five vertical markets for the first 50 deals then we'd have expanded that to about 10 verticals for the next 100 but now it's very horizontal with the integrations and so on but obviously you've got to build up the customer base you've got to build up the competition and then you start getting partners knocking on your door but before we went out to partners we started building relationships with accountants because again And in our market, you have to have accountants on side.

19:00They're extremely important advocates for our software. And yeah, we got a number of mid-market accounting, kind of top 100 accounting firms on board. And then a mixture of resellers, ISVs in terms of software integrators who plug in and then expose us to their product. but in terms of go-to-market and marketing it there's actually probably more linden's bag to be fitting in terms of actually how do we generate the leads and get in front of people so it sounds

19:32Ben Murray: like several different acquisition channels what's what where do you get most of your leads from out of that is it pretty equal or there's one win out of the over the others it's true yeah by all means Yeah, right now, we've still got the echoes of seven years of a fairly heavy direct team. So right now in our direct team, there's probably about 25 resources that are focused entirely on CFOs, FDs and going direct. And therefore, a lot of the marketing has been around the lead gen, whether it's to request a demo, book a quick tour, PR related inbound stuff and so on, email campaigns. And we've got a ton of SDRs as well.

20:15So we've got 15, 16 SDRs actually. In fact, thinking about it, there's 31 in our direct sales motion right now because there's 16 of them are SDRs. And so we have a lot of outbound. But the thing about that, as everyone's seen, is it's getting more and more difficult. It's like greater levels of resistance where those emails aren't getting opened, its outbounds aren't getting answered. There's so much noise out there. And but we've doubled down on that. And we are getting still the majority of our leads coming through that direct motion. But I don't expect that to be the story next year, because for the last two years, we've been cultivating the channel.

20:51And we're seeing the accountants in the channel and the ISVs and the resellers. And bear on the resellers typically were X, Sage, Netstreet and one advanced resellers that have now defected and recognized the future is without tech and not what they've done in the past. And so we're seeing an emergence of a channel where that will absolutely overtake our direct motion and deliberately as well, because the future is without a doubt through third-party sales initiatives. The opportunity of this market is so large, we would be foolish to think we could digest it all directly. And so right now we've got about 70 accredited partners.

21:28That's still growing. But imagine the capabilities and the installed base and the numbers of 70 partners alone, all the partners being experienced ones, then none of them are new. Which means that those 70 partners alone will outstrip our capabilities of our direct team, I think, from next year onwards. But while our direct is still performing, which gives us compound growth.

21:49Ben Murray: Okay. Yeah, interesting. So a little diversified approach here, which is doing a big outbound. And tell us pricing models today, a bit under attack, right? With all the AI stuff and per seed versus consumption, outcome-based. Tell us where your pricing structure sits right now. Yeah. So right now, I would say it's moved from the traditional license of seats and entities and modules and all those sort of things you would have expected to see to a hybrid consumption. So we have just moved to expanding the number of tiers available as effectively as platforms, because I guess historically most products tend to have three tiers.

22:29I think we have six, which just allow for different volumes of transactions because that feels like the sensible consumption metric. Yeah, you could be fairly small in terms of entities and users, but you could be processing a million transactions a month and vice versa. right you could be quite heavy on the users and not be pummeling the system too heavily so we do it mostly on consumption which also falls into the ai tokens as well right so we have embedded we we charge for consumption of ai tokens as well that's something that's just about coming through the product this year so it's fairly new and obviously having that cost cost income margin balance to monitor and measure and bill appropriately.

23:14Yeah, early days on that front.

23:16Ben Murray: So with hybrid, you mentioned hybrid, so is there a base subscription fee plus then some activity-based consumption fee? There's, yeah, so there's a base kind of platform fee. So that's the license for what tier we think you sit well on in terms of your transaction volumes, your users, your entities, and all the things that you need. That's the right platform for you. And then there's a little extra consumption add-on if you're heavily using the A or it's like AP automation, for example. We have our own built-in AP automation in a lot of systems that's a third party add-on, but we can scan invoices and translate them and process them automatically.

23:58But again, it's quite a heavy cost in the back end to process that. So that's if someone's processing a million of those a month, then that can, that's where the hybrid comes in. So it just adds to that base platform license.

24:13Ben Murray: Yeah. Interesting. And so we've got AI infused into the platform now and right, you've seen a lot of investment go into, you could say AI native platforms on the accounting side. So where do you see AI in the back office and accounting? Do you see this as doing the debits of credits, facilitating debits of credits? What's your perspective on AI and how it's going to help accounting close? I think this is a really interesting topic and you can't have a conversation these days without AI dominating it. But in the finance team and in core accounting, I think it's much more nuanced, which is there's a lot of noise about AI native and we consider ourselves AI first.

24:54And we think there's a technical differentiation that's really important. And if you think about it, we've spent over the last 10 years now building a cloud core. And that cloud core is deterministic, guaranteed every time, penetration tested on a daily basis, cyber secure and SOC2 and all the things that needs to give security and peace of mind to a finance director that the system that they are using is not going to be able to compromise them. Equally, it's also completely regulated and compliance when it comes to audit and everything that needs to be shown to make sure your books are in order.

25:33So then AI comes along. And the issue is this, which is finance teams want to use AI. Obviously, depending on what sector you're in, depends on how receptive you are. But we see that there's a split in the market really, which is the legacy vendors can't move fast enough. So they're sticking AI on top of legacy tech, and they're not dealing with a whole bunch of debt that they're going to have to deal with down the line. And then you've got, so you've got the legacy one sticking it on the old stuff. And then you've got the AI native saying AI everywhere, right? It's AI is just the essence. AI is the software.

26:04And look at how sexy and quick we can build front ends and workflows. Iplicit operates the space in between, which is we're not going to be first to market and we're not going to be bleeding edge with every new sexy, fancy thing. But what we've got with AI first is we've got AI embedded into the domain knowledge of the cloud core. So also with a semantic layer, which we use that gives the intelligence of when to use AI and also more importantly, or as importantly, when not to use AI. And therefore we think right now that the mid market in particular, they need handholding into cloud. We're talking about customers who've used on-premises for the last 18 years and say, yeah, but can I trust that?

26:47And what if it goes down? And what about this? And you're talking about risk averse in many sectors. So when you come in with AI natives saying, we can just do it all, just talk to it and make it happen. And by the way, you can talk to our system. But there's a difference between human in the loop delegation and AI doing the lifting for you in areas that really assist versus abdication. And there's a really big difference on getting an answer in your books that says, and when my auditors come in and I've got a proven trail that they can stand on and they can sign off versus you can't explain where these numbers have come from.

27:21We think a unified platform, which is AI first embedded within a cloud, a mature cloud core, where robust scalability, security, compliance at the very heart of what we do, we think it's a very different offering and we think it's the right offering for the finance team. And just to finish off on that, the AI native offerings that we see in the market that really aren't getting any traction in the UK and Ireland right now. And I know they're getting a ton of traction and fundraising and it's getting everyone's excitement. But the reality is they're doing the easy bit first. They're doing the front end.

27:55They're doing the sexy workflows. They're doing the things that AI does really well and they're vibe coding it and you can see this stuff happening quickly. But what's not being discussed when you have these conversations is we talk to our prospects and they give us feedback and they say, so I've asked an AI native vendor, I've asked them if it's really AI native and they go, absolutely, it's AI through and through. Great. So are you using a large language model to do probabilistic outcomes when it comes to my finances for my end of quarter VAT return and my end of year at my audit? No, no, there is a cloud element to it.

28:28Okay. So let's talk about that because you just said it with AI native. And what they unravel quite quickly is these AI native startups have got some amazing, exciting workflow in tech and front ends and so on, but very immature cloud cores. And the thing that we think is the thing that you can't bake quickly in this oven is you can't bake a cloud core quickly. You've got to build it over tens of thousands of tests, and you've got to build it over thousands of customers, millions of transactions, and you build it over years. That's what we've done. So our bet, and the reason we're so excited, is we actually think the AI noise is forcing all the legacy users to say, I think I really need to look at a change.

29:12And now they're starting to realize they've got to look at a change. And we're the safest and most dynamic option as a rounded package, which rather than, let's say, a reckless option to many FDs that say, I'm sorry, I can't explain these numbers. I'm not prepared to go with that.

29:29Ben Murray: Yeah, no, it's interesting times. It's never been more exciting in the back office, but also maybe a little bit more confusing now with what's happening. So really interesting. Now, I want to get two more questions in before we run out of time today. But the company's been around for 10 years, maybe in the market, six, seven years. So at this stage of the business, guys, do you have a favorite number or metric or metrics that you use to guide the business right now? You taught me everything there is to know about metrics, Ben, as one of your alumni. But I'm not sure I have one favorite, but I'd say probably if I can only have three, then it would probably be burn rate, CAC payback period, and kind of GRR as a pen.

30:10Because I think with those three, I know where I am. It's a good balance of, are my customers happy? Have we got enough cash? Are we burning too fast? And is our marketing and sales and marketing efficient, right?

30:22Ben Murray: Yeah. So core metrics, yeah, the top ones there, Rob. And then, Lyndon, from a CEO perspective, what's on your mind metrics-wise? I've got one metric. I was going to say mine goes to one every single time, and it's the be all and end all, which is one of the things we're doing in the market is we disrupt. So we're not providing the proposition in the way everyone else does. We don't do lock-in contracts. You can leave when you want. We don't do right-to-use licenses. So if you want to go, we'll help you take your data. And why do I start with that? Because any of our customers can leave whenever they want.

30:52Our GRR is over 98%. So no one leaves. We've been in the market seven and a half years.

30:58Ben Murray: One final question here before we wrap up to give a sense of scale to our listeners here. What's anything you want to share around revenue ranges or ARR ranges? Yeah, for the first seven years of our growth up to last year, our average year-on-year growth was still over 100%. So that's coming off now because you can only fold a bit of paper in half so many times. It gets harder and harder to keep doubling. and last year we grew 73 % and we're tailing off now while we evolve through the startup to scale up. So end of this year, we should be coming in around 17 to 18 million ARR mark with aggressive growth, continued consistent growth.

31:37And we've yet to really light up on the channel. And the question I'm sure you'll ask, because I've heard it on a couple of other podcasts you've done, but when are we going to be at Unicorn? People like to hear that and know about it. But the Becoming unicorn is not a goal for us. It's like a stock along the way. We see this as much, much bigger. The market opportunity for us, if we take a 25 % market share, which we feel we should, that's 500 million pounds a year recurring. So we've got a plan that stretches the next 15, 20 years. But I think we should hit unicorn status in the next five to six.

32:14Ben Murray: Okay, that's great. We'll watch and we'll have you back on, or maybe we'll have you back on, on the journey to unicorn status. So guys, really appreciate you coming on today. And if listeners would like to learn more about iPlicit, where should we send them online? iPlicit.com. That would be the first place. But the other thing is I'm happy to chat with people, put them in the right direction, put them in touch with the right people or put them in the right direction. So I'm Lyndon at iPlicit.com as well, if anyone wanted to get in touch. But first thing for the product, take a quick tour, see the software.

32:46We're very transparent as a business. we don't make you jump through hoops to go on discovery calls to see stuff we show you straight out of the box on the website you can see stuff happening so iplissit.com would be the place to start yeah likewise rob robert iplissit.com if they want to talk to a cfa all right perfect yeah

33:04Ben Murray: i think all those yeah definitely fds will want to guys appreciate you sharing your journey and long journey in tech so far a lot of experience love that we'll put that link in the show notes and guys thanks for being on the show today great to see you thanks for having us Thanks. Thanks very much.