3 Keys to Becoming the Parent You Always Needed

25:59Like I literally was not built to tolerate this. And then it ends up looking awful, but really, it's really vulnerable. Right? Super vulnerable. Super vulnerable. So I want to give you one more example of resilience. There's three lines I think every parent needs to know. And I honestly can almost reframe that saying I think every person in a relationship needs to know. Whether you're in a romantic relationship, a work relationship, it's the same stuff. Because another resilience building moment I can imagine is kind of like what I said to you earlier. Let's say your kid's a little older. I'm the only kid who doesn't know how to read chapter books.

26:30Or I'm the only one of my friends who didn't get into honors math. So teenagers. Yeah, let's say that. I'm the only kid who didn't get into honors math. I tried out for the lacrosse team. All my kids, my friends made it. And I didn't make it, yeah. Everyone, me included. Okay, my first instinct is to, quote, make my kid feel better. Oh, you're going to make it next year. Or you made varsity soccer and none of them made soccer, right? Whatever the thing is. Or we say, you're going to see it's not a big deal. Okay, so here's the image. I'm big on images. Now this is going to matter in 20 years or whatever year.

27:01We say, right? The truth is we kind of say it because we're uncomfortable and we're just kind of making a kid a pawn in our game. But if you picture your kid on a bench and if you picture them kind of in a garden, that's what I like to say. That's like the parable for life, the garden. And there's a bench. And essentially when your kid says, I'm the only one who didn't make the lacrosse team, let's say they're sitting on the bench of, what is it? Disappointment or maybe it's embarrassment or both or feeling surprised and let down. I don't know, it's something like that. That's the bench. and as parents we tend to have two instincts when our kid is on the bench kind of some type of distress we either want to tell them that their bench isn't their bench that's not a big deal even though they're like but i'm but that's how i feel but i'm on it yeah like i'm or we kind of see a sunnier bench and we're like just come with me right but like you're the best at you know at soccer.

27:55And so we're like, right. And both of those reduced resilience because resilience is kind of like your ability in that garden of life to like whatever bench you find yourself on, you're able to sit in it, not drown in it, but sit in it. Like, cause when you're there, you inevitably will be like, you're not terrified. You're not spending all your energy, like running away from a bench. Like if you saw that, you'd be like, dude, like what, just, just a bench, you know? And so how do we help our kid feel like essentially like it's okay to be them no matter what bench they're on. Or it's really, it's okay to be you even when you don't make the lacrosse team.

28:29Because that's really the essence. That's the core thing that resilience is about. So how long should they sit on that bench of emotion? Great. So to me, these three lines will play that out. So to me, as soon as your kid says something distressing to you, we have those two urges. We have to recognize them. We're not bad people. I always say, say hi to them. Hello, urge to make it better. And here to me is the first line every parent needs in their toolbox. I'm so glad you're talking to me about this. to the child say that to the child right away when they're stressed out when they're angry upset shameful any any unsettling emotion that you don't enjoy yourself say back to them so glad you're telling me this right now that's right i'm so glad we're talking about this that because and again if we think about an adult context if i was like i'm so mad at my husband he never whatever whatever it is he never is home for bedtime and he he forgot the one thing i said And if I was like, hey, like, you're never, you're never doing anything around the house.

29:21And I am really frustrated. If he said to me, you know what, Becky, well, you're upset, but like, I'm so glad you're telling me about this. Like, you know, relationships, I'd be like, I think we're good now. Like, I don't, I don't even know what was I upset about. Because what someone's really saying to you when they say that is this feeling in you that you're feeling is real. And I still want to be in a relationship with you when you're feeling that way. Yeah, I still love and accept you. That's right. And so our kids need to absorb from us, from a resilience perspective, my parent can tolerate this part of me before I learn to tolerate this part of me.

30:04For me, the thing that really sort of pulled the finger out of the dike, if you will, or broke the seal was kids. Really? Yeah, 100%. How old were you when you had your first kid? I started late. I was 42. too. Yeah. I'm 41 and I'm, I'm starting the process of, you know, just getting on it, getting started with thinking about when in the next year or two, there's no perfect time. Let me, I'm very good at running other people's lives. Just do it. It's, it's, it's really tough. Yeah. The first few, there's just no good, there's never a good time to have kids is what I found. What was the, uh, the biggest thing you learned about yourself after having kids?

30:38And what was the biggest thing you learned about money after having kids? Well, it's sort of relaxing to, I mean, up until the point I had kids, my general thought every day was how can I be more awesome and be around more awesome people and experiences? And I want more money. All right. That was a big focus of mine. I didn't grow up with a lot of money. I was very focused on economic security. I didn't want to change the world. I didn't have any desire to be a good person. I don't want to be a bad person. I wanted a lot of money. It was really important to me. And growing up, in a household that was financially strained kind of created those embers or that fire um the what did i what did i learn about myself having kids um it's relaxing to all of a sudden not be thinking about yourself it's so much sort of cathartic because on this is friday on fridays when i was single it was like how can i hang out with more fabulous people how can i meet more people where I can make more money?

31:37How can I be at a cooler place? How can I be at a cooler place with hotter people making more money? And it was just sort of never enough. That was like conscious or unconscious thinking? Just lizard brain. And we're a competitive species. The reason that we're all smarter, stronger, faster than our ancestors is we're competitive. Some of it's built into us. Some of it is healthy. When you have kids, it's like, I'm not worried about how fabulous the place I'm having brunch on Sunday is and who's going to be there. It's like, okay, I know I'm going to soccer practice. And the first few years, it's tough because I'm a selfish person and that didn't foot well to being a new father.

32:12And also, I think there's a bit of a myth that having kids like, you know, bright lights and angels singing. I really didn't enjoy having babies. I thought babies were awful. And I'm like, what is everyone? Everyone's lying. This is awful. Wow. And then about two or three, when they start recognizing you, they become less awful. and then it kind of flips and they actually become fun. And then before you know it, it's just sort of, for the first time in your life, you care about something other than you or for me more. And that's cathartic and wonderful. And it gives you a sense of purpose that once you're gone, maybe if you've treated this child better than you were treated and you provided surplus love, it kind of checks an instinctual box.

32:54And there's, I've never felt sated across anything. You said off mic before I got here, you're everywhere. I'm like pissed off. I'm not more everywhere. So I've never been sated and something's broken in me. Fine. The only time I ever feel satisfied, there's a few moments that happen randomly. I'll be on the couch watching premier league football or something. My kids, my boys will roll in. They sit down and they automatically throw their legs over mine. The dogs come in, they jump on us. And I'm like, okay, this is it. I can't imagine. I can't imagine more kids. I can't imagine more. I just like, this is it.

33:34It's the only time I ever feel that way. Only time. And I'm an atheist. I think a lot about the end. And I believe that I'll look into my son's eyes and know our relationship is coming to an end. I do not believe there's an afterlife, but I also know I'm going to just feel more comfort. Like I actually did something. Like I checked a really big cosmic box because I've tried to be a great father, but I know I'm a good father. What did I learn or what did I feel? The first thought I had is I need more money. The U.S. becomes more like itself every day. It is a loving, kind place for people with money.

34:12It's a rapacious, violent place for people without money. Low-income homes, the kids have higher resting blood pressure than the kids in middle or upper-income homes. It's a this is a this is a violent, ugly place for poor people and for the kids. And one in five kids live in a household that is food insecure. So my I didn't have these romantic visions of self-worth and happiness. When my first son came marching out of my girlfriend, I was like, I need more money. Do you feel like when you sounds awful? I mean, it's not awful. Do you feel like it's I think it's your instinct saying, OK, this is going to be more of an expense.

34:51is going to take more time and you know i'm going to invest in this how do i go find more resources to support and provide for this family that i'm building yeah um when you do you think something unlocks in men when they have a child to support them in becoming more financially abundant 100 i always made enough money to have the perception of wealth uh you know i was made and i'm talented and i'm hard working and i always made enough money to have a nice place to live nice clothes head to St. Bart's for the holidays. But once I had a kid, and it was kind of a strange time in my life economically, as referenced before, I'm like, okay, it's no longer about me.

35:30And there's no faking it when you have kids. When you're young and you're single, you can crash on a friend's couch. You can move to Houston and do crazy work on a whatever, an oil platform or what have you, and make a bunch of money. Once you have dogs and kids, there's just certain expenses and responsibilities you have. And I do think it's important. I'm writing a book on masculinity now. I think a decent place to start for a man is to take economic responsibility for your household. And sometimes that means getting out of the way of your partner who's better at this whole money thing and being more supportive of her career.

36:01That's also part of taking economic responsibility. It's about having honest conversations with your partner about what economic weight class you expect to be in and who's responsible for it and what's your approach to spending. Young people almost never have those conversations. So, but I think that, you know, that stuff is incredibly important. And what I say to young people is they can have it all. They just can't have it all at once. I made huge trade-offs when I was younger and even in your age. I didn't see my kids much before the age of five because I got very motivated. But having kids really focused me on doubling down or really knuckling down, bearing down whatever the term is so i could have economic security because i felt a very healthy sense of obligation to be a provider and a protector i think that's a good thing i think men should feel that way and i embraced that and i said okay i'm gonna start i'm gonna stop drinking as much i'm gonna drink less i'm gonna get very focused on work i'm gonna be smarter i'm gonna start saving money i moved to florida to avoid to lower my burn so we could start saving more money And then the typhoon-like winds of an unprecedented bull market just literally launched me into space.

37:19But if I hadn't had some of that maturity that I think was forced on me by having a kid, I wouldn't have recognized the same prosperity. So for me, it was very, very focusing. Interesting. So you feel like for most men that you've connected with who have kids, they get focused when they have a kid on their career or their finances or saving or investing. and they just get a little bit smarter on that? I mean, a lot of it is specific or individual. And the key question is, what's your relationship? As it relates to kids, what's the relationship you have with a partner? So I have a very competent partner who makes good money and has really thoughtful, like I'm the spender.

37:59She's much more frugal. Yeah, she was born in Poland, so she was waiting in line for fish when she was a kid. So she's, if we're up to her, we'd have just Krugerrands buried in the backyard and maybe take a huge risk and buy like Deutsche Bonds. I'm the more risk aggressive one. I'm the one that likes to spend. I'm more of the YOLO. The best households are households that bring together, and both of those things are good, a mix of personality traits. But having a competent partner who can help you with the kids and the immense responsibilities you can partner with around not only the family, partner with romantically, partner with financially.

38:40I think that's important. So I wouldn't just tell everyone have kids. What I would suggest is if you got a great partner and a lot of people, specifically women, are deciding now that they don't need a partner. And I think that's actually quite liberating, good for them. But do they have people in their life that can help? Because it's a lot. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of financial responsibility. But I would tell almost anyone that is making a decent living on up that having kids is incredibly rewarding, incredibly rewarding. And for me, it was focusing. Yes. We're talking about the algebra of wealth, a simple formula for financial security.

39:19on page 49 in your book, you say that the most important economic decision you'll make in your life is not what you major in, where you work, what stock you buy or where you live. It's who you partner with. And when someone is wanting to choose the right partner, a lot of people, my past was choosing based on chemical bonding, sexual attraction, chemical bonding, feeling good and not really asking those courageous questions about the future, about financial decisions, about spending, saving, all these different things. What would you say are three questions that young people should be asking each other when they're entering a relationship to see if the potential for a healthy and happy long-term relationship is even possible, knowing that money challenges cite for 37 % of the problems in divorce is around money challenges.

40:18Yeah, well, you sort of got to one of the answers. So the first is, and young people are very good at asking this question over and over, is sex and affection. That basically says I choose you. It's really important. And young people are very good at determining whether that works or not. The second is values. Weird stuff like where do you expect to be living in five years? Or do you know my ex-wife expected to be or wanted to be living very close to her parents. I had not considered that. I did not think about that. Do you want to live in a city? Right. What's your approach to religion? You know there's just a lot of questions around values.

40:57And then the third one you referenced that people talk about is money. 70 % of divorce filings are filed by women. We have a tendency to stereotype women as being these doughy victims that have no agency. And men is like dopey predators, right? It's Marge Simpson, incredibly high character, never makes a mistake. And it's Homer Simpson, who is an idiot, but deep down an okay guy. And the whole, all life is Homer coming over his idiocy while Marge is just this incredibly high character person. And I can statistically prove that there's a lot of good women and there's a lot of good men and there's some bad women and some bad men.

41:35But women, I believe, and we don't like to talk about this openly and honestly, value economic security more in a mate than men do. 75 % of women say that economic viability is a key criteria in a mate. For men, it's only 25%. Wanting the woman to make money or have security. Or that it's important. In the relationship. Yeah. In some women are much more attracted to a man because of his financial security than a man would be to a woman because of her financial security. And then it gets speedball and online dating, which is where everyone is meeting now. And the problem is that people don't give each other enough chance, especially, quite frankly, women who if you talk to married couples, 75 percent of them will say that initially one was less attracted or interested in the other.

42:22And it's almost always that the woman was less attracted to the man. Women have a much finer filter than men because the downside of sex is much greater for women. And they have a much stronger instinct to find someone who can protect their young. And so they are much choosier than men. So guys are driven by aesthetics initially online, but they're less choosy. Oh, she looks cute. Or she looks nice. Or she looks like she works out. Swipe right, swipe right, swipe right. Women are choosier. In addition, we have this unfortunate trend in society where young men are falling further faster than in any time in history.

42:56And women, generally speaking, mate socioeconomically horizontally and up. I'm sorry. Women mate horizontally and up socioeconomically, men horizontally and down. And the pool of men horizontal and up is shrinking. Meanwhile, and this is wonderful, no group of people has ascended faster globally than women. There are more women seeking tertiary education now than men globally. And when you look at some nations don't like women going to college, that's a remarkable stat. The number of women elected to parliament globally, the elected body, has doubled in the last 30 years. There are more women, single women in the U.S.

43:35now that own homes than single men. There's going to be potentially nearly two to one female to male college grads in the next five years. And by the way, we don't want to do anything that gets in the way of that. That's amazing. But what we also have to acknowledge is that if we don't figure out a way to produce more economically and emotionally viable young men, we're going to have a lack of household formation. Because regardless of the Hallmark Channel movie you see, women, generally speaking, aren't interested in men who aren't socially or excuse me, aren't socioeconomically at the same level or superior to them.

44:11Interesting. Oh, there's all kinds. When the woman starts making or the wife in the relationship starts making more money than the man, the guy is three times more likely to be on erectile dysfunction drugs. Really? And a lot of that is his own issue, his own weird sense of masculinity and his own insecurity. But again, those 70 % of divorce filings filed by women, we never want to have an honest conversation about this, right? Because anything that in any way might portray one sex as not being our vision of how the sex is portrayed in media means you're anti-women. I don't think that's true at all.

44:4370 % of those divorce filings and the number one source of that divorce filing, there's really three things. He has an emotional breakdown. He loses his business or some story declares bankruptcy. That's the biggest cause for women wanting to file for a divorce. When he's no longer a viable provider. Wow. People think it's values or infidelity. It's not. It's almost always related to money. Wow. Money creates kind of opportunistic infection. It's sort of like there's just more likely and most anger, most households coming apart. Financial stress usually is creating the context of anger and the underlying like issue behind why someone's resentful or angry or stressed or overwhelmed.

45:23It lowers the immunity system of everybody around the household. Wow. So when a woman is with a man that makes less than them, can they truly be sexually turned on and feel emotionally safe as well? I think so. But the data shows it's not as easy. Guys can find and partner with, guys have no trouble being attracted to a woman who is not financially secure. Now, some men are, you know, like that. I'm making huge reductive generalizations here, but there's some data around this. women if you're on tinder and you're a guy who's making eighty thousand dollars and is five nine uh i'm sorry making 130 000 and you're five nine you're as attractive to a woman is a guy who's making eighty thousand so it's about ten thousand dollars per inch so everyone talks about height uh-huh your ability to signal women are attractive generally speaking the research shows to men based on three reasons.

46:28The third is kindness. They don't want someone who's going to be a good person. They're impressed by men who are good to their parents and kind and go out of their way to help people when there's no reciprocal expectation. The second is intelligence because the smarter you are, the more likely you are to make good decisions and protect your family's offspring. And by the way, the fastest way to communicate intelligence is humor. I've always said, if you can make a woman laugh, you can kiss her. And then the most important thing though, to women and people don't like to admit this is the man's ability to signal future resources.

47:05It's not even, he has to be rich now, but he has to have his act together such that he looks like he will be a decent provider. And the number of people, the number of men we're producing that qualify in this category is shrinking as women get tight. It's the high heels effect. Just as 50 % of women say they won't date a man shorter than them, I bet it's 80%. They're just not as drawn to men who are smaller than them because it's very instinctual. I need someone who will protect my young. Metaphorically, women are getting taller every day. They're killing it. Financially, education, intelligence, opportunities, resources.

47:41Women are killing it. And it's amazing. We shouldn't do anything that gets in the way of that. The question is, how do we lift up men? Who wants more economically and emotionally viable men? Women. Why are men not doing as well in today's society? And why versus women continue to thrive, which is a great thing. But why aren't men thriving equally or at the same pace? So I'm parroting Richard Reeves' great work of boys to men. There's a lot of reasons. Biologically, men mature later. Their prefrontal cortex is literally 18 to 24 months behind a girl's. So, two seniors applying to college, a boy and a girl, 17-year-old boy and girl, essentially the girl is competing against a 15-year-old.

48:29Oh, my gosh. So, think about school. What are the behaviors we promote in school? Be organized, be a pleaser, sit still. Basically, education is set up for girls. I couldn't do it. And there's a lot of shame when boys, you know, just… Man, it's so challenging. My 13-year-old, the idea of my 13-year-old sitting in still for an hour and a half and listening to French verbs, I think it's literally torture for him. Yeah. You also, so they're biologically inferior. They're also emotionally and mentally less strong. While boys are physically stronger, they're emotionally and mentally much weaker. So we have the second most single-family households in America as any country in the world.

49:09We're second to Sweden. Wow. And when we say single-family home, single-parent home, 92 % of the time, it's a mom. What's interesting is the girl in that household has similar outcomes, college attainment, self-harm. They seem to be doing just fine with just a single mother. A boy falls off the tracks. The moment he loses a male role model, he becomes much more likely to be incarcerated, addicted, or kill himself. It's also a really, really scary stat. Two 15-year-olds sexually molested a boy and a girl. The boy is 10 times more likely to kill himself later in life. that's not to say either crime is any less heinous but what it ends up is that boys are emotionally and mentally much weaker yeah than girls and the single point of failure is uh when they lose a role model a male role model and there is an entire generation of men the dad's gone 70 to 90 percent of people in schools are women there's more female per capita fighter pilots than male kindergarten teachers.

50:12There are just very few men in primary education. So you have a whole generation of boys who are growing up with absolutely no contact with men. And so when I think about what it means to be masculine, you take care of your stuff. You're together. You have a plan. You're kind. You have surplus value. You begin to take care of your family. You're a protector. You're a provider. You start to contribute to your community. I think the ultimate expression of masculinity, it's more a call for action is for a man to get involved in the life of a, of a kid that's not his. And there's especially a huge need for young boys.

50:50And my mom was always really good at this. Her boyfriend stayed in my life. I had a guy across the hall come over one day and introduced himself to my mom. And then the next weekend he came over and said, would your son like to learn how to horseback ride? And I used to go out to a ranch in Calabasas with this guy for the better part of two years every other weekend. And he taught me how to ride a horse and he talked to me about stuff. And the thing is, you don't have to be a baller. You just have to be a guy trying to live a virtuous life. And quite frankly, Michael Jackson and Catholic church have screwed it up for these men because there's an air of suspicion when a young man wants or a man wants to get involved in a boy's life.

51:28There's a feeling, well, what's wrong with him? And here's the thing. 99.9 % of men have a feeling of paternal and fraternal love. Yes. And sometimes they don't have a place to give it yet. And what I would urge all men to do is there's an enormous cadre of young boys who need men in their life and aren't getting it.

51:53What are the clear signs that you could start reflecting and asking yourself if one of your parents were narcissistic in any way? One of the things certainly that I found is that so many people grow up under the family trance. And so the family trance, they don't understand the dysfunction of their family because it's been normalized. And I've used the term malignant normalcy. because then if I grew up abused and I'm in an abusive relationship, I've normalized the abuse as not something I like, but I will accept or it's kind of normal. But that's a malignant normalcy. That's not a normalcy you want to have.

52:44And so when people, when I think about helping people see, and really that's what my work is about, it's to help people see outside the box and to see in a broader way so much of all the dynamics that are going on within the family. And if you have a narcissistic family, or there's all kinds of other dysfunctional families too, there's some universals that go along with that. But when you say a narcissistic family, I think when you start to recognize, hey, they've always been controlling. They lack empathy. They guilt and shame. They could be abusive, but they don't have to be abusive to be narcissistic.

53:32narcissistic. They love you and they have a plan for your life. And I say love with air quotes. We used to say that in religious circles, God loves you and he has a plan for your life. Well, the narcissist loves you and they have a plan for your life and you better follow it. Wow. Or else. Or else. And the narcissist will be very self-absorbed. Everything is basically about them, that it always comes back to them. That's the whole focus. And if you have parents who have some of those type of traits, there are other traits, but some of those, people will always ask me, am I a narcissist? And I'll go, do you ever feel guilty?

54:17Oh, yeah, all the time. Then you're not. You're just dysfunctional. You're just dysfunctional. No, right. A narcissist is not going to feel that guilt. They don't feel, what have they done wrong? They're always right. So that why would I feel guilt about anything or shame? So if you felt that, you're probably less likely to be a narcissist. But a parent can be a narcissistic parent. They can abuse you. They can criticize you. But they'll never go, oh, my bad. They won't apologize. You'll do that. Why would they apologize? You made them do it. You made them do it. Or they did it for your good. So why would I ever need to say, I'm sorry?

55:10There's no need to say I'm sorry. What's the worst thing a parent could do then to their kids over and over again that will almost surely make them dysfunctional as an adult? Is it never apologizing to them when, you know, they... That's too symptomatic. That's too superficial. Uh-huh. The thing that's going to make them more dysfunctional as an adult is to not break their own cycle from their own past, bringing that cycle to their current nuclear family and not knowing it. So bringing the generational trauma onward. And the generational programming and the generational emotional Wi-Fi that's been going on and they just bring that right into here, that's going to mess them up more than ever.

56:06Now, does abuse and narcissistic meanness, do all those things affect the kid? Of course it does. Screaming and all that stuff, yeah. Exactly. Of course it's going to. But it's not the screaming that's the underlying problem. That's a symptom of something. That's a symptom of how the family has been dysfunctional and toxic. And it can come out in different ways. Narcissism, alcoholism, abuse, workaholism, sex addiction. It can come out in gambling and all kinds of symptomatic ways. But underneath all of that is an enmeshment to a family whose trance has never been broken. Wow. The origin family.

56:52The origin family. It's never been broken. And now you're just living it out. Only John's living it out that way. Mary's living it out that way. But that's the underlying important dynamic. And if we don't break the trance of the family, the origin family of ours, if we don't break that trance, then we're just going to relive that pattern in our adult relationships as well. In some way. And it may not even look like the way mom and dad did it. But the pattern's still there. So people will go, well, I'm not like my parents. Oh, hold on just a second. Let me ask you, but what you're doing is the same theme and it has origins in your family of origin.

57:35You may have chosen the opposite, but 180 degrees from unhealthy is unhealthy. So people go, oh, well, I'm all the way over here. Oh, now you're just a class B unhealthy, right? And a class A unhealthy person. And you feel superior over them because you're over here. Right. You haven't broken the cycle. You're living the pendulum life. Yeah, I'm not screaming at my partner like my parents did. like they did. But I'm controlling. But I'm being controlling and I still may be self-absorbed or judgmental or any number of other kinds of things. Interesting. Here's the real question then. If we start to think about, oh, maybe my parents had some narcissistic tendencies and I'm starting to think about it and I'm starting to evaluate my childhood and realize, oh, I thought this was just normal because it's the only thing I knew.

58:31How many families did we grow up in? Yeah, right. And it wasn't as bad as that family, so I got to be grateful for this. Yeah, and we should. And my parents were loving at times, and they gave us, and they were doing the best they could. So I can't think of them as narcissistic, but we start to internalize that. What are the warning signs then that show up in adult children of narcissistic parents? Let's then take a look at that. Mom and dad, or whoever was narcissistic, hypercritical and judgmental. Now, I then grow up and say, I'm not going to be like that. But what am I to myself? Hypercritical and judgmental.

59:16So an adult child of a narcissistic family often will have unbounded guilt, shame, criticalness, hypercriticalness, very hard on themselves. So they just take the voice from here and just live it inside themselves. Really? Everything is that way. People go, oh, well, they screamed all the time. So many times I've said, so how many times have you internally screamed at yourself? I don't scream at other people. I didn't say other people. I said, you. Oh, well, yeah, I can be pretty nasty to me. You know, you stupid. And I said, you're just reliving this only in a different way. And so it's all embryonic in the family.

1:00:11So everything that's happening out here, the problem, and that's what I think, that's why I use the term, the problem is, the solution is not near the problem. Also, the problem may not be near the symptom. here I am criticizing myself and cutting myself down internally and hating myself. And narcissists, adult children narcissists can definitely hate themselves because they've been judged and criticized and, you know, emotionally hurt so many different ways, shamed. And so this is what they're doing out here. And they're now doing this as adults to themselves internally and going, well, what's the solution?

1:00:59and many will go, don't look at any of that. Let's just try to be nicer to yourself, which is not bad advice, but it's superficial advice, and it may not hold, and then you'll try it and then give it up, and you'll try it and give it up, versus, wait a minute, let's get mom and dad out of you. Wow. That's what we want to do, And do you recognize that's not you? When you are criticizing yourself that way, you're going to be under the hypnosis and the trance that this is me doing it to me. And I go, let me give you some good news. It's not you doing it to you. It's your family still doing it to you through you.

1:01:50There's a difference. And that's a huge difference. And so as adult children, what should we be thinking about if we felt like we had a dysfunctional childhood? Should we be thinking about how do I get myself to be self-differentiated from my parents and my family? How do I block my family completely? How do I heal the past? Like what should we be thinking about as we come into awareness as adult children of dysfunctional childhoods or narcissistic parents? And I think it's a great question. But your question also has within it a certain paradigm, as all questions do. Every question has the answer in it.

1:02:34Every question that someone asks, the answer is in their question. And so you were asking about, so do I separate myself from my family? Do I, you know, and certainly if someone, if families are abusive and toxic and have no interest in changing, well, then we have to look at some no contact or, you know, we may need to go that far. But self-differentiation, what I tend to think when someone has a family that's narcissistic, does the person that I'm working with or talking to or the adult child of the narcissist need greater self-differentiation, which is an emotional state and a maturity state?

1:03:20Or do they need to physically separate? if you physically separate you still need to emotionally separate right it doesn't solve the problem it doesn't solve the problem now but i i don't want you there being abused you know and have been taken and you know there's common sense to this as well but self-differentiation is is the do you have the maturity and respect for yourself that if you had grown up in a healthy family, this is the way you'd be. That's self-differentiation. And people go, well, how can I do that? I didn't grow up in a healthy family. It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

1:04:04Really? So let's start now. Wow. And are you going to take care of yourself or are you not? And adult children or narcissists don't know how to take care of themselves. They've never even been told that's a good thing to do. Many of them would say, well, my church or my whatever teaches me, I should not do that because that's selfish. And I go, no, no, that's not what they're teaching. Or I don't know, they may be teaching that's certainly possible. But that's not what that that isn't what self-care is about. Self-focus is healthy. We've grown up with no self-focus and only focused on the others in the family.

1:04:44Now we want to do self-focus, which means inner boundaries, where when you say, well, Jerry, you're such a bad son, and I just think you're worthless. And inside I go, so what? And? Because you are you, and I am me. if we are too enmeshed then what you said will drive me crazy and then I'll try to overcompensate or approval or whatever I'll be reactive I'll get mad that's the way you've always treated me why don't you stop treating me that way you've always been this way versus okay I see that's how you feel I don't feel that way about me but it's okay if you do I mean you have a right to feel that way about me if you want I don't care I hope it helps you out I don't know why is it so hard as adult children to break the family trance though of conditioning from parents guilting or you need to come visit me more why don't you call me more you're not doing this more or whatever our fantasies we're still children I want the parent to love me.

1:06:11I want them to accept me. I want them to take care of my needs. I've always wanted a parent who would care. And I'm not ready to give up that fantasy. Oh, man. And if I could help someone give up those fantasies, they'll grow like nobody's business. Really? Oh, they just go. It's the fantasy that holds us back. That's part of it, yes. The trance and what we've learned as normal. And then there's the fantasy of when you don't get it growing up, then you will always be looking for it. I want you to come to me and we work out me helping you to stop looking for it. Stop looking for what? A beautiful childhood or whatever?

1:07:03Beautiful childhood. My parents love me. They need to treat me right. Maybe someday they'll accept me. Maybe it's not. It's a fantasy. It is a fantasy. And fantasies mess up adulthood. Goals don't mess up adulthood, but fantasies do. And emotional fantasies. Sure, sure. And there's creativity in fantasies and things. But this fantasy of I'm going to have a happy childhood. I'm trying to have a happy childhood. But every time I go back at Christmas time or the holiday time, it always ends up being a mess. They just judge me. And they judge me and they do the same thing. I try to be nicer and I bring more food or I bring the kids or whatever they're trying to do to get this so that their parents will one day go, you are OK.

1:07:53So what should adult children stop trying to do with their parents? Stop needing them as parents. Really? When does parenting end? Good question. I don't know. 18? Is it supposed to end, though, at 18 for everyone? Aren't you going to be an adult? That's the goal. Adults don't need a parent. But some people live with their parents until they're 30. Adults may wish or want to have mothers and fathers. I'm not saying break up your whole family because you turned 18. I'm talking about parenting. Parenting is parent to child, not parent to adult. Of course, there are exceptions. Of course, there are people with disabilities.

1:08:42I understand there's all kinds of variations. But generally, if I tell people, I go, and what do you need your parent to do? Well, I need them to treat me. And I'm going, why do you need to treat them? Why do you need them to treat you better. Why? Well, I'll never be happy if I... There you are. You've just hooked together. You'll never be happy unless this fantasy comes true. And I can already tell you, it's not going to come true because it's been going on for 35 years. And I doubt if your parents are going to just one day go, you know, could miracles happen? Of course, miracles can happen but i'm not in the miracle business so i that if they do they do it's interesting because the people watching and listening right now if you're listening if you're watching this right now i want you to leave a comment below and say if you had a happy like if your parents loved you supported you approved of you most of the time comment below happy childhood if you feel like your parent you could never get the approval of your parents they were never satisfied with you They're always judging and critical of you.

1:09:58Type in challenging childhood in the comments below. And I'm curious, what is the pro and con of having a healthy relationship with your parents versus an unhealthy relationship with your parents, wanting them to approve and love you as adults? Right. Well, that's because then your self won't develop. you are living a pseudo self waiting on them to give you a self by them going, you're wonderful and we love you. And the thing is, the same is true with if parents have caused trauma. Once you become an adult, they can no longer fix that for you ever. They could say, I'm sorry. They could be remorseful.

1:10:52but i keep telling clients or coaching people that i tell they can't fix it this is now yours to fix whatever they did is now yours to fix not theirs to fix even if they do even if they do apologize it still may not solve the problem yeah you don't have to fix it still exactly how does that fix it right and so they always go back i'm going to confront them and tell them and you're just going to get caught up in the system even deeper. Really? You're going to go down in the quicksand even more if you go do that. And I always tell people the time to confront people is when you don't need to. If you need to, you're probably out of sync.

1:11:36Really? Yeah. So not that we can't confront some people. I got to confront if they're not giving me my coffee. Sure, sure. You know, I got to. But generally, I'm talking about this emotional stuff. You know what's interesting? that you say that. I was sexually abused when I was five by a man that I didn't know. And I've talked about it openly on this show many times. But for those that are here the first time, it was something that haunted me for 25 years. For 25 years, I held onto it. I felt shame. I felt sadness. I felt anger, rage, all these different things. And it was a movie that played in my mind over and over again for 25 years.

1:12:14And it drove me, without even knowing it, unconsciously to protect myself, to defend myself, to... Not trust. Yeah, not trust. If someone's trying to take advantage of me, I'm going to, you know, get big and strong and all these different things. And I need to be right and I need to win. And in some ways, it helped me accomplish certain goals, but left me feeling very empty as well. Bad things have upsides. Bad things have downsides. Good things have upsides. good things have downsides all but sorry to interrupt and I got to a point when I was 30 um so 25 years later where it it was too much it was too much and it all kind of came out right it came out at one point after about a year of just breakdowns continuing to happen where it forced me to look within and stop blaming everyone else of like why is these things happening in my life And it got to a point where I said, okay, I'm actually going to dive deeper and start working on myself.

1:13:19And start unpacking things from childhood and start really reflecting on these things. And I went to workshops, therapy, coaching, all the different things. And it got to a point where I finally opened up and talked about it in a safe environment. And then I started talking about it and letting my family know, some of my friends, and started talking about it publicly. and I don't think everyone should talk about their stuff publicly, but I had a platform I felt the need to, I felt pulled to, I felt like inspired to. And there came to a point where maybe it was a couple years after I started to process and heal that journey and self-regulate the memory and self-differentiate from that wound where I was like, do I need to confront this person?

1:14:08And I don't even know where the person is. I don't know where the person is or if they're alive or not. But I was like, what's that going to do for me? I got to a point where I was like, I don't need to, and I'm at peace with it. But what should I do about that? Yeah, but I didn't feel like I need to confront this to finish the job of my healing. I was like, this is my work to do. And no matter what this person would say, it's not going to help me. What would be the positive outcome of that? Yeah. I not you can if you want, but I'm just trying to think what's the utility of it. If it provides some something, OK, but I don't know that I would go through all that to try to find them and confront them.

1:14:51Unless it's a family member that you want to talk about something. Right. Some ongoing relationship or something. Right. Jerry, this has been powerful. And I want people to follow you over on YouTube slash Jerry Wise and everywhere else, jerrywiserelationshipsystems.com. You've got a free training on your site as well, where people can go through more of your systems and your processes for understanding how to navigate dysfunctional family relationships, how to start healing, how to start becoming more self-aware, self-regulated, differentiated, all these different things. I want people to go to your website and check this out.

1:15:27You're all over social media as well. Again, Jerry Wise. And you've got just a wealth of information on how to navigate probably one of the most challenging things, which is family dynamics and the dynamic you have with your inner child and self. and so I want to acknowledge you for the decades of service you've had towards understanding researching and helping human beings find more peace and harmony in their relationships because like you said I think the most important thing in the world is the family units and having families be healthy and happy and individualistic as well within a family so they can be authentic and not a pseudo self.

1:16:13So I want to acknowledge you for the work, the journey, and the commitment you have to helping families heal in a world where it seems like there's a lot of stress and chaos in families. And there's two final questions I have for you. This one is a hypothetical question I ask everyone at the end of our conversations. It's called the three truths. So imagine you get to live as long as you want, Jerry, but it's the last day in the future for you. And you get to accomplish everything you want and see the people in your life flourish and everything else all comes true. But on the last day for you, you have to take all of your work with you.

1:16:55So this conversation is gone. All the content you've ever put out there, no one has access to your content anymore. But on the last day, you get to leave behind three final lessons. And we would have access to this information. What would be those three lessons to the world or three truths? Remember that you can't solve the problem using the thinking and emotional dynamics that have caused it. So you cannot break out of the box by using everything you know in the box. Two, family is everything, whether you believe it or not. That truth is not going to change. You can resist it. You can do whatever you want with it.

1:17:44But because of who you are and as a human being and growing up in that social unit that has mental and emotional dynamics that go on the rest of your life. So family is everything.

1:18:07Thirdly, calmness is everything. If you want to be less enmeshed, stay more calm because reactivity will only make you enmesh more. So if you're being reactive, you're probably enmeshing more. You're not de-enmeshing. I didn't say be a doormat. I didn't say be, but calmness is everything. And if you are calm, you can think, you can regulate your emotions better, you can regulate your thoughts better, and you can see things more clearly. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links.

1:18:54And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.