Alex Honnold: THIS Is The MINDSET That Allowed Me To Achieve What NO ONE Ever Has (+ What’s NEXT!)

48:26and so in a way to sort of offset that in a way to keep it feeling more normal for myself I tried to just keep my Yosemite season as like one of many things throughout the year so so the season that I free sell at Al Cap I also had an expedition planned to Antarctica that winter it was like my first trip to Antarctica and it was the North Face expedition with the whole team and you know I was just going with people and I didn't even necessarily want to go because I thought it would be too cold. As it turns out. It is too cold. No, actually, it turns out it was one of the best expeditions of my life.

48:59And it was amazing. But at the time, I was like, that sounds crazy. I don't want to go. But that's a different story. But so because I knew I'd be going to Antarctica, I also planned this expedition to Alaska with some other people. Again, it was like someone else's trip. And I was going to go with them because it's a good way to practice the skills for Antarctica. And I'd been there with them before. And we had some unfinished business. We didn't do this thing. But so basically, I had my Yosemite season where I was hoping to freestyle El Cap, but I already had these other trips lined up and these other climbing goals and these partners and like plans because I wanted Yosemite to feel like, oh, I'm using Yosemite to get fit for Alaska and Alaska is getting me fit for Antarctica and it's all just part of the normal cycle of being a professional climber where you go from like one thing to another.

49:40And yes, of course, my goal in Yosemite is way more important than any of those other things, but it makes it feel like it's more normal. Right. And that keeps it from feeling too crazy for me. Too intense, too stressful. Yeah. And so when I did El Cap, like a week later, I went to Alaska and went on a sex position. And as it turns out, it actually was kind of a perfect come down because we had terrible weather. So I spent a bunch of time in my tent. I read a bunch. And after, you know, years of training for El Cap and like several months of intense physical effort. You reflected more. Yeah. Yeah.

50:08Then I was actually, you know, just because of the Alaskan weather, I just got to spend a couple weeks in my tent reading, being like, oh, like chill, you know. but so your question though of like was there a big come down kind of like yeah there was a little bit but there was kind of this natural order of other trips and plans and goals and like you know i mean as a climber you just always have something that you're interested in sure but then it was complicated because then the next year the film came out and then the free solo film i called it my deployment to hollywood sort of like a military deployment yeah because it was basically six months of like non-stop traveling events press interviews promotion non-stop everything and so and i knew it was a once in a lifetime thing so i totally embraced i was like i'm i'm going all in i'm doing everything they tell me to do i'm just i'm i'm here for the experience you know like oh there's bradley cooper again i met him at the last six things too you're like cool because he was touring with a star is born or whatever and you're just like oh bradley you're so handsome it's like like every time you bump into him you're like you're still so handsome you know but i knew that it was like a once in a lifetime thing so every you know the events are fun like i mean yeah like but but it's cool you know it's like crazy stories and you know it's the only time you'll do it so you're just like that's that's fine but then again then you have a crazy come down afterward because you've just spent six months basically living this like insane hollywood lifestyle yeah well it's like high but also kind of low because you're basically just going from airport to venue to hotel to airport to venue to hotel like for months which for me especially as a professional climber is like a complete change for normal lifestyle Yeah, you want to be outdoors.

51:40Yeah, normally I hike to the cliff. I spend the whole day working on some random thing with my partner. And then we hike back and it's all super chill. And then during the Free Solo Film Tour, we're having days where you wake up in New York City. You fly to SF. You drive for an hour. You do an event. You drive back to the airport. You fly again to LA. And then you do another event that night. And you're just like, I'm literally a piece of meat that's being shipped in a can around the country. You're like, this is crazy. But you're also like, what an unusual life experience. I think I had two different days.

52:08like that there were double days where it's like you wake up in chicago you fly to new york you do an event and then you fly to la and you do another event that night and you're like how can you even do that many of you know like you did two premieres on one day yeah not different years necessarily but like screenings or stress things or whatever yeah yeah yeah but like stuff so that was six months yeah it was like six months touring around speaking showing up taking photos maybe maybe it was like five but it was really really long it was like you weren't able to really climb during then i mean i was training in the gym a lot wow quite a bit lifting or you were more like at a rock climbing so any gym you could find in the country you would just go yeah yeah every climbing gym in the country basically you went to yeah yeah wow man so would you ever do that experience again where you're hanging out with i mean for the right thing you know it is fun like it's a crazy experience it's it's cool what was the crazy story that that came out of that in those five there's so many i mean in some ways my wife and i now have a lot of the fun little couple stories like one of the Oscars after party things Mahershala Ali whatever you know the guy I think Green Book I think I don't know I forget if he'd won something or not but he was obviously like nominated and he's a great actor and very handsome and all dapper in this amazing suit with this entourage anyway he was like walking by and he like just shook my hand or something because we had just you know it was just anyway my wife was like holding a bunch of hors d 'oeuvres because we were pillaging all the free snacks and she literally just threw her snacks on the floor so she could be like hello and shake hands with him and she was like so delighted to meet him but it's just like the fun story if she like just dumps all her food so she can be like hello you know it's her one chance to shake hands with Ursula that's fun I don't know just things like that you know random stories you saw Bradley Cooper what six times I mean a bunch because everyone's on the same circuit it's like the directors go to the war the screen actors go to the war the whatever is the the Oscars the BAFTAs the I like presented an award at like the Audio Guild the Academy thing you know just like it's all part of the campaign it's I don't know so you just do what everybody tells you just felt like a piece of meat though huh just being shipped around everywhere basically but i mean it's fine you're just doing what you're told i mean it's like having a job sure but you're like what a weird job did you get paid for that no but they pay for your flights and hotels yeah of course it's all expenses covered and then you know i make some percentage of what free solo made and then free solo was shockingly successful and so then you know so you get a cut of that yeah so it's not it's disingenuous to say i'm can pay because obviously it's all good for me you're helping promote something that could pay you yeah exactly wow and then when you think how well the film wound up doing and then you know i wind up getting corporate speaking offers and things like that like obviously the film doing well has been very good for me and my family and that's all great but the actual day-to-day you're not getting paid you're just like this is a lot like it's crazy well i mean you're not getting paid to climb a mountain either day-to-day i guess well that's true that's true i mean my friends and i often joke that if you if you broke out your pay as a climber by hours of hard labor you know you're getting paid like petty yeah two bucks an hour to carry like a 50 pound backpack of a mountain and you're kind of like this is pretty hard work for not that much money right but it's because you love doing it it's so fun of course yeah i'm curious you've um you mentioned this in free solo but how many people that you've either climbed with or know as climbers have lost their life no i don't know i mean it depends on how wide of a net you cast you between close friends versus uh casual acquaintances and things but you know in the broader community like dozens probably but close friends you know a handful really yeah was there ever a time where there was like did anyone ever lose their life on a climb that you were on ever or an expedition no i don't think so nothing like too too close i mean i've seen a couple terrible accidents like cliffs really where somebody yeah like you hear screaming you run around the corner and they broke their leg or something or uh well a couple things like that no i mean people dying though really like you were there yeah yeah you were i mean it wasn't in your group or was just another group or um different group like some random kids at this climbing yeah yeah oh man what's that like kid fell and uh some of the protection ripped out and he landed on the ground and his head collapsed basically and he died what's that like when you're on a climb and you see and you experience that I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, it's terrible, but, you know, you're also, you're always sort of rationally aware of the risks involved.

56:29And so, I mean, and this might be one of the things that separates me from some of my friends or family, let's say, because I don't know if my wife feels the same way necessarily. But, you know, I feel like I'm rationally aware of all the risks involved. And so seeing them firsthand is sobering for sure. And very sad. And like seeing his friends is very, you know, like they were, they were all very inexperienced. And so like nobody had any idea how the accident happened or what had happened or why he's dying. And like, it was all terrible. It's terrible for the partners. And, you know, so that's like hard to watch.

57:00But you are sort of like, this is what you've signed up to do. You're like, you know that this is a possibility. Seeing it doesn't make it any less of a possibility. you know like it basically is always on you to mitigate risk as much as possible right man it's just yeah i mean yeah it's pretty intense yeah does something change in your brain or in your heart when you're i guess seeing either a bad accident or seeing someone you know lose their life is something shifting inside of you or are you just saying it's more of like a blessing and a gratitude of like okay this is i have to really make sure i prepare it's another reminder of how difficult and challenging this is well that's the thing i think you can go either way i mean i think you can either deal with those kinds of things by sort of shutting yourself off to it and like inner yourself like numb yourself to it and be like doesn't matter that happens like whatever don't care or you can sort of let it in and be like this is really really sad and there are high consequences in this sport but i love doing this sport anyway and it's still worth it to me you know but i will do my best to avoid things like that happening right yeah i mean in some ways i think that that second option is the slightly more responsible and and sort of the more seasoned response maybe and i think that that's kind of where i probably am now whereas uh i think as a as a younger you know as a early 20s man it's easier to just either shut it out or just be like well they made a mistake and that won't happen to me which is like a little is not really the right call.

58:31What's the biggest loss you've had? Whether it be like an emotional loss or a physical loss? You mean like loss like blow in life or loss like somebody dying? It could just be like a grieving of anything. You know, it could be a physical grieving of someone or it could be an emotional grieving of something. I don't know. I mean, there are the obvious things that come to mind. Like my father died when I was 19 and, you know, like grandparents have all died and like family members have died. But those are kind of like normal grieving in a way where like in some ways that's the natural course of life.

59:05Like my father obviously died much younger than he should have. But it's still sort of natural in a way. You're like, you know, at some point your parents are going to die before you hopefully. And you kind of want them to because it's better for them to die before you than for you to die before them. And so, you know, now as a parent, I'm like, well, I hope I die before my daughter or daughters soon. uh-huh um so i mean that that to me is sort of like natural grieving in some ways i think accidents and climbing accidents are almost harder well even though they're you know in some ways more fair it's like people are taking risks of their lives occasionally they die you're like well that you know they made choices and i mean that's kind of the callous way to look at it but it's still really sad and it's sad for their families and i don't know i've only had a couple like truly close friend climbing partners who have died in accidents really none of them were with me um but but those are sad because you see the impact on the families and you know you're just like you're close to their friends their families you know their circles yeah and you still think about them you're like oh it'd be nice to hang out with that person right now and wow but but i don't know i mean that's kind of the thing with climbing though is that it is harder than you know like i assume that you haven't had a lot of fellow handball athletes die playing handball.

1:00:22Not what I know, yeah. I mean, football's more intense and people get injured every season. Yeah, but still very rare. But yeah, rare. Like almost never die. Yeah, it's rare. No, with climbing, I mean, there is a lot more risk. But then that also gives you more from the sport in some ways. Like I think some of the life lessons you can take from climbing, you can't necessarily get from handball. I mean, with all respect for handball. Because obviously all the lessons around like training and perseverance, like those are all kind of the same. but some of the like managing fear and like the different different levels yeah it's just different things yeah of course yeah you're not like managing mortal peril in the same way it's different and like grieving friends and and like being actually afraid for your life though it's funny because being afraid of failure or being afraid of like pressure of competition feels the same as being afraid for your life in a lot of ways in some ways you know and depending on the person and depending on how neurotic they are and like how stressed they are it can be worse so what about the biggest emotional loss you've had or thing you've had to grieve i don't know i mean obviously relationships you know like failed relationships and things and particularly when you're younger and it just all seems like it matters more but um but in the grand scheme of the thing none of those are that big deal do you feel like you have a bigger heart because of the things you've been able to overcome?

1:01:43Do you have like an expansion of giving and receiving love? I think I started from a very stunted place. Really? And with steady nurturing through my wife and now having a family and good community and good relationships now my stunted cold heart has grown to like a below average size. Really? Yeah, for sure. Do you think it's hard for you to feel loved? Yeah. Why do you think that is? Partially because I think they're you know, billions of people on earth and it's all slightly arbitrary. You know, it's like if I didn't exist, then the people around me would love other people and they would be fine.

1:02:20You know, like life would go on. Wow. I mean, it's a slightly callous approach to it. But I also think a very true approach. But when your wife is trying to, you know, show appreciation or love on you, are you able to receive that? Or do you feel like it's kind of distant? We joke sometimes that she's just shoveling dirt into a bottomless hole for her whole life. Or shoveling love into a deep, dark hole. But the thing is, she's an incredibly caring person. And she's, you know, she's accepted a challenge in life. Oh, my God. Yeah. And, I mean, it might not be quite that bad. Yeah, yeah, of course.

1:02:54especially now like with having kids and you know having more you're growing a little bit that's the thing i think the stunted darkness is growing a little why do you think it's hard for you to receive love i don't know i mean it doesn't matter to receive love yeah doesn't it feels great to receive love doesn't it well i wouldn't know the bottomless dark holes like you know i don't know i mean i guess but do you really believe it even if somebody you know man like even if someone's very genuine and they're like oh but i really love you like but do you really because you know if or when i disappear obviously yeah okay if someone disappeared doesn't i guess it doesn't matter they can still love you if you're not around you know if if you died your wife can still love you for the rest of her life your kids can still love you but i actually kind of think that she wouldn't because i think she'll basically just forget because that's that's human and i don't think people forget if they have a great relationship with them no but even still you lose the details I mean, that's physiology, you know, it's like you just, it gets fuzzy.

1:03:51You have memories, you have photos, you have videos, you have memories. I know, but actually that's the interesting thing with memories. I mean, this is kind of a whole aside, but I mean, so I've kind of noticed this being a professional climber. So a lot of my life is on video and in photo and whatever. And there are a lot of climbs that I don't even really remember that well now, you know, 15 years later or something. and so your memory starts to be supplanted by the video or by the photo or by whatever the the uh the external memory is you know like the thing that you're supposed to remember and you're like i don't actually remember the experience like i don't know what i was feeling i mean i know what the article said or what the book says or you know what the video shows or whatever but i'm like i don't remember you don't remember the feeling yeah i mean it's been a long freaking time so i yeah all that to say though i think that a lot of memories what people think of as a memory is actually just the story that they've told themselves about it over and over.

1:04:41I agree to that. Or the story that they've told to others about it over and over. Sure. And so it's not like they actually remember it. They just keep reminding themselves of like this terrible thing that happened to them or this thing that they lost or whatever. But if they stop reminding themselves, they'll just forget. Yeah. For better or for worse. You know, like in a lot of cases, that's probably better if it's something you've lost. So when do you feel the most loved? When you're doing what? Or experiencing what? When do you feel that? I don't know if you've ever talked about love before.

1:05:10Yeah, totally. No, no, it was fine. Well, okay, so like last night I was at a good friend's birthday party. It was like kind of a nice little sort of family affair, like maybe four couples all hanging out, all like very close friends, all part of the climbing community. And not that I felt loved per se, but everybody was having a very nice time and it's like everyone's genuinely laughing and like having a great connection. And I was like, oh, this is nice. Like this is real community. Like this feels good, you know? So you felt loved? Yeah, you feel like the, you feel the community, the niceness in the air, you know, where you're like, oh, this is a true group.

1:05:42Like, that's nice. It's a good moment. It's a good feeling. Yeah, totally. Did you feel loved as a kid? Did you feel like you had good community and connections and friends and family that you felt loved? I mean, I objectively did have good community and good family and, you know, I was like raised in a comfortable, safe environment. Like, basically, it all should have been fine, but I don't know if I necessarily felt loved. Really? You know. who influenced you more mom or dad it's hard to say in um i mean it's hard to say because my dad died when i was 19 and so you know it's it's like hard to remember a lot of ways i'd say like in terms of worldview and things now it's like it seems clear that i'm more like my mother maybe but it's also because i don't know my father as well because you know i've never got to know him as an adult but um but in some of the very obvious ways my father had a bigger influence because he was the one who actually took me to the climbing gym all the time and and like drove me to youth competitions and he wasn't a climber but he just you know it's kind of like being a little little league dad or something he was just supportive so he was really supportive he showed up to your he took you to all the events yeah yeah he was encouraged he was really uh what are what are love languages and things you know he was really good with time like he was happy to like give quality times but not even necessarily quality because quality time would be like oh you're really having a moment together but i just mean like the showing up and like doing the thing for you like maybe acts of service service yeah yeah yeah yeah so he was like good at that kind of thing which i think as a kid you kind of take for granted because like well somebody has to take me to the gym but now as an adult i'm like man he took me to the gym a lot a lot of time yeah that's a lot of time at the climbing gym you know and especially for i mean he was like a middle-aged professor who's like belaying me.

1:07:23He would climb a little bit mostly just because I would need to rest every once in a while. So then he would like climb something because he's there. So he dedicated a lot of time actually. Yeah. Yeah. He would belay me like on four or five routes and then he would do one and then I would do like four or five and he would do one and you know. It's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's exactly. And that's the kind of thing that now as an adult, I can see that like that's, that's a big thing on his part. He committed. Yeah. He had a lot of commitment. What was the biggest lesson that your dad taught you?

1:07:48Well, I don't know. I mean, I think it's that, I think it's like the showing up is the most important thing in some ways. Wow. Which, I mean, if we're really going deep on relationship stuff, I mean, this is a common point of contention in my marriage is that to me, actions are the most important thing. You know, my wife like wants more words of appreciation. Words of affirmation. Yeah, words of affirmation. Yeah, yeah, whatever. So, I mean. That physical touch. Yeah, yeah. I think we both are fine with that. But like, I think she wants a little more like telling and I think that doing is more important.

1:08:19the action yeah i'm gonna show up because i'm like anybody can say the right things but doing the right things i think i think the same thing man i think it's like who's gonna commit and take the actions you know yeah well that's that's the cynic in me because i'm like anyone can say you know like a good actor you know since we're in la it's like you see all the billboards like any good actor could convince you that they just absolutely adore you but it doesn't mean anything unless they actually show up and and do the things yeah do what they say they're gonna do yeah like for years right consistently yeah what do you wish you got to say to your dad that you never got to say is there anything oh it's hard to say i mean if we're really getting into it i mean my parents got divorced the year before he died basically like when i graduated high school and they'd sort of been like staying together for the kids which in retrospect was a terrible idea and they should have gotten divorced when we were like seven i know that and so it's kind of it's unfortunate because i felt like i never got to know him as a as his own like thriving adult because he was in this relationship like basically their whole situation like didn't seem that healthy and so now you know i'm like oh they should have just gotten divorced when we were kids and both been happy yeah and then both been like happy independent adults and we could have actually gotten to know them as real people instead of having this kind of like dour you know like non-person yeah because in the year that after he got divorced he was sort of starting to thrive in his own you know he was like kind of psyched on his own stuff and like doing his thing but then he died and so you know it's hard to really know him because right yeah because the things i hear from all my family members on his side of the family you know things like before i was born so we're like oh it's really different than the person that i knew is there anything you wish you could have said to him that you didn't get to or no no man last night like since we're gonna last night uh one of my wife's really good friends we listened to a really long audio message from her that uh she had just had a family member die but she left this long audio message that was basically this very heartwarming story about how she had just crafted this long message to to the family member telling him how much they meant to them and blah blah and then basically the person was like dying the next day oh man and uh and his his daughter had the opportunity to like read this message to him before he died and so so this this friend you know was incredibly it was all like i was like man this is a lot it was like a straight up hallmark cards sort of yeah it was deep i was like wow but i also was like wow that's kind of incredible because she was so much more at peace with the death knowing that anything she ever possibly could have wanted to say she managed to say to the person before they died and they died knowing everything that wow everything that they meant to to this person you know i was like oh that was my takeaway was like man if you know if you have any friends like you should just say the thing before and that's why your wife wants words of affirmations yeah exactly but at least when she does she'll know that i was always there for her i didn't tell you how i felt but i showed you yeah but that's exactly exactly i didn't tell you enough but i did try to show you but you just said right there you should say to the people you care about i know i know but it's you know yeah it's hard harder to do do you feel like that's one of your greatest mountains to climb right now is to actually step into that or is that just maybe i mean that's probably a big part of being a good dad so but we're not quite there yet thankfully at this point they're not old enough yet for the yeah communicate that way yeah right now the big challenge this morning the diaper change had poop going all the way up the back through multiple layers of clothing no and destroyed everything not destroyed but right right so it was everywhere yeah but then trying to take off the dirty shirts you know usually you get poop in the hair, you get poop in everywhere.

1:11:57I was like, this is, this is, yeah. Wow, man. Parenting is at a different phase right now. It's like poop everywhere. I'm not, I'm sure you'll look back at the memory and it'll be better than the moment. But, um, we were talking about before we started rolling about, um, your biggest challenge. And you were kind of mentioning like right now, and you were kind of mentioning what to do when you were underperforming. And you said, you feel like you're failing a lot or not living up to an expectation. Yeah, not necessarily failing, but yeah, just not performing at the level that you think you should.

1:12:30So why do you think that's happening in your life right now? It's hard to say. I mean, you know. And your failure is still like the greatest in the world at what you're doing. No, not the greatest in the world, but I'd say my sucking is still, you know, pretty good, but it's way worse than what I think it should be. Mm-hmm. You know, it's hard to not. Why do you think that's happening? I don't know. No. I mean, it's a long, long sordid tale, you know. Like, I did an expedition this summer where a partner and I bicycled 2 ,000 miles to Alaska and then climbed some mountains. But it was basically a two-month trip.

1:13:07And over the course of the trip, I kind of got grounded to us. Like, I was kind of worked. You were worn out. Yeah, I was, like, worn out. 2 ,000 miles is a long time. Yeah, but he was doing well. And for whatever reason, though, I just wasn't really recovering and, like, was kind of, like, getting worse and worse. you know typically with a lot of exercise if you get enough rest you know you respond to it and you get better and better yeah in this case i was kind of just getting worse the whole time and then i came back and it was kind of sucking for a month or two but that was kind of understandable because i was like i'm digging back out of this hole and and the expedition was successful you know we did the things we were trying to do and it was cool and it'll be a film on for national geographic as well and so you know it's like it's fine like i don't mind having a trip like that where you get grounded dust if you do the things that you set out to do and then i don't mind spending some time recovering like that's totally understandable but i spent the time recovering and then and then since then i've just never quite you know i keep having like moments where i feel about as good as i think i should be and then it kind of disappears again i keep having really glimpses of like like physically or mentally or yeah physically but i feel like the mental side follows the physical as a professional athlete especially because if you just can't do the thing that you want to do you know i mean even doing like a podcast like this is like basically you know it's the school of greatness but what if you're not great then then what do you do should i just like walk out right now just give up yeah because for the last couple weeks i haven't been that great or like last couple months i haven't been that great so i'm like should i just go right i've had those seasons where i'm just like tired or maybe i've just worked too hard and i feel like i'm not able to be as present or at the top of my game but i was telling you before yesterday was our 11 year anniversary of the show where every week for 11 years the show has come out that is that is and i I think also, you know, you've been doing this for 20 plus years.

1:14:51It's like you're not always going to win every game or be the best every time and every climb or every interview. It's not always going to be my greatest performance. But I think the consistency over time is a level of greatness. Even if you didn't want to do it that day, even if it was a subpar performance. But so that's the whole tough thing as a self-coached climber is that. so I agree consistency and just showing up and that's normally my approach for for training and things like even on the days where you kind of suck like you just grind out the but if you're digging yourself into a hole you have to know when to put down the shovel and like get out of the hole true you know or rest yeah exactly and that's the challenge when when you're like am I sucking because I need more rest or am I sucking because I need to train harder and you just don't know which path you need to take and they're totally divergent paths that lead to totally different things.

1:15:44And so I think that recently I've been sort of on the, I've been doing a little bit of both, you know, and maybe not quite nailing either. And I'm not sure which is the right. She'll spend a couple of weeks training harder and you're like, that's not working. Let me take a week to relax, recover more. That's not working. Yeah. Like what do I do? A little bit of both. Yeah. Like, you know, we're like training more, but then the whole family got sick and like the baby's sick and you're up in the middle of the night and then you're sort of like, well, that winds up being like a week or two of rest as it turns out like quote unquote rest.

1:16:11Yeah. But like not heavy training load and then you're sort of like well now i'm doing both of them poorly like i don't know which is better i'm not really recovering and i'm not really double training and then baby number two shows up kind of soon and so then you're just i'm just going to assume that that's not going to help you're not doing either again yeah exactly but in a way i mean i'm not that stressed because i know long term like this time next year i'll probably be climbing pretty well and and or at least climbing the same like i'm not too stressed in the long term but it's just slightly frustrating when you want to when you feel like you could be doing better and you're not sure why why you're not there so in a in a year and a half two years you'll be you'll be 40 right yeah so i'm 38 so yeah in two years you'll have a you know a two-year-old and a four-year-old essentially um maybe another i don't know but you'll have at least two years yeah yeah we'll have two daughters and you will have lived 40 years of your life and you will have accomplished so many incredible things that most climbers will never accomplish ever.

1:17:13What do you feel like the next 10 years will be if you could go into the future and think about the vision you might have? What do you see your life looking like? This is, I mean, this is an interesting question. And I've been thinking about this a little bit because I think this is an, I mean, I want to keep doing things that I'm proud of and climbing. And partially because I want my daughters to know someone who's proud of the things that they're doing and not proud of the things that they did you know what I mean it's like kind of a subtle distinction interesting but I don't want my daughters growing up with somebody who's like oh I used to do all these cool things as opposed to like I want them growing up with somebody who's excited to do cool things in the future and is like working on projects and because I think that kind of motivation that excitement to like work on projects and like get up early and train and like have things that you're passionate about I mean I think that's important yeah and that's certainly something that I'd love to pass on to my kids in like a healthy way not like not like a psycho pushing them away.

1:18:04But like in a way for them to see someone who's fired up and like living their best life. And so, you know, I mean, I am very proud of all the things that I've done, but I think it's important to have just as many things that I want to do in the future, because I think that's hopefully part of parenting, you know, like within reason, like I don't need something all encompassing, like, oh, cap, let's say, because that would probably take me away from family too much. But I can have goals that I am passionate about that I try very hard for and that I can still be around my family enough for. Do you have anything on your mind of what that will look like?

1:18:36Not, I don't know, nothing big right now. I mean, this year I have a couple sort of like climbing travel, like destination goals where like my family and I will go to a place and climb for a while. They aren't like objectives in terms of performance. It's more like to go to a place together and like have a good time climbing. Yeah, yeah. Like hopefully be able to do something cool while I'm in the places, but it's not like, it's not the main goal. Not performance thing, yeah. Yeah. um but yeah so in some ways i see this as sort of an in-between year i mean and also in the big picture if i'm kind of like oh the five year the first five years of my children's life i was a little underproductive as a climber i'm like that doesn't seem crazy yeah like that's fine and as long as i think that i can come out of that again at some point like if you just told me you know you will underperform for five years while you raise your kids at the beginning i'd be like that's totally fine it'd be like going to college or something where you're like okay well I'm going through this phase of life because I know it'll set me up better for the future like because I know I want a family long term yeah but I I just want to know that I'll be okay again eventually and you could go back and do do these things again yeah like I don't mind the grinding and training and like all that stuff if I think that eventually it'll it'll pay off or like it'll it'll work you know but I think that the challenge is when you start second guessing like is this the wrong path like am I doing this all wrong this is a waste of my time tell me about Arctic Ascent because the trailer of this thing is just blew me away tell me what the expedition is was and you know what we should look forward to as we watch this series.

1:20:07Yes Arctic Ascent is a three-part series on National Geographic comes out kind of soon and it was an expedition to Greenland a six-week trip to Greenland to remote part of eastern Greenland and it's sort of an interesting combination of of climbing adventure we went and we climbed these two cool walls one of which was a 4 000 foot sea cliff like sticking straight out of the ocean it was kind of insane um so you have to take a boat to get the actual boat to the base you hop out of the boat and then you climb 4 000 feet straight out of the fjord it's pretty cool that's crazy yeah i'd never done anything like that either it was uh how cold is it it's pretty freaking chilly it was a north facing wall in greenland so it wasn't warm winds are just blowing up against you the waves are crashing against the wall well the waves are crashing this wall 4 000 feet below you that's crazy man yeah it's really far yes it's like bigger now cap bigger than you know it's a big big wall so no one had ever climbed it not that wall no which is yeah that's part of the the excitement for you to go try something that no one had ever tried yeah exactly i mean it's it's probably one of the biggest unclimbed rock walls in the world like that because there aren't that many 4 000 foot vertical walls, but as you can imagine.

1:21:17So, I mean, how do you prepare mentally and emotionally for something that you've never done and no one else has ever done? Well, I have done a lot of other first ascents and I have climbed a lot of other mountains and I've climbed things of similar size and scale in different places. And so, you know, it's true that it's the first ascend I've never ever climbed that rock. And as it turns out, that rock posed some unique challenges that I'd never quite encountered before. I had like this crazy swirly rock that varied in quality and it was actually, it turned out it was pretty hard. But, you know, you just draw on all your experiences having done other things that are somewhat similar.

1:21:52And in that case, you also have a team. And so you're also drawing on the experiences of the team. And the team members were also incredibly skilled professional climbers. And so, you know, between everybody, you assume that somebody has what it takes. Wow. Or at least the team has what it takes. Do you think you could do it alone without, I mean, maybe having the support of people with ropes or whatever, but without other rock climber professionals kind of coaching and working with you, could you have done it alone? Maybe, but it'd be harder and it'd be less fun. And it wouldn't be the experience that you want necessarily.

1:22:27It'd be a lot harder because sharing the psychological burden is a big part of it. Really? Because when you're looking up at a 4 ,000 foot wall and you're not sure if it goes, like every move is uncertain. You know, we're like, am I going the right way? am I? And so it's nice to be able to share that uncertainty with other people and like, let them think about it a little bit. Let them make some decisions, like trust them to take the lead for a while and just take the rope up higher. And then you can take over again. So you'll pass the lead is where you're saying. Yeah. You alternate leads. And so it allows you to relax while the other person's leading.

1:22:57And in this case, on that particular climb, I was mostly climbing with this woman, Hazel Finley, who's a British climber, who's a professional climber, very, very good at that kind of thing. and so whenever she's leading it allows me to totally relax and sort of recover and eat and drink and chill really and she's incredibly stressed because she's leading and trying to figure out how to stay safe and where we should go and like what direction but while she's stressing you can just sit down there being like ah really yeah you mean you're like you're you're you're hooked in you're just kind of dangling yeah i'm hooked in and i'm feeding the rope out to her i'm like i'm belaying i'm holding on the ropes i'm like protecting her but i'm also sort of eating drinking and relaxing and then just like watching the icebergs go by on the fjord you know it's like you're just chilling because the thing is as soon as she finishes her section of the climb and secures the rope then she brings you up and then it's your turn to lead again oh man and then when you're leading it's suddenly stressful because you're like should i go left should i go right like left looks more dangerous but right looks like it might get blank and then we'd have to backtrack and you know you're constantly like making all these route finding decisions of like which way it looks harder which way it looks easier but you're always dealing with incomplete set of information because no one's been there so nobody knows so you look up and you're like well it looks easy but what if it isn't like then you're screwed wow how long how long did that whole climb take well that particular 4 ,000 foot wall only took 10 days or so of the trip but that's partially because we were just sort of cramming it in at the end um so climbing it took 10 days no like we pushed the ropes higher up and it rained a lot and it was crazy and then the the final ascent took us two days but it's because we'd already gone halfway up the wall and so it So you were sleeping on the wall?

1:24:30Yeah, I was sleeping on the wall. So you were on the wall for 10 days? No, we were at a base camp nearby, and then we were on the wall for two. Okay, gotcha. We'd been pushing higher and higher up the wall, and then finally we did the whole thing in two days. So you'd push up, then come back down to base camp, push a little higher. And part of that's the nature of filming and everything to make a TV show is that you kind of have to do things like that to make sure that the camera people can be in position and things. Wow. But that trip, though, was a six-week expedition, and we'd climb this other wall where we also camped on the wall.

1:24:59And we ski traversed across this ice cap and we did a bunch of science. And I mean, when you're talking about, you know, purpose and things like that, I mean, in some ways, this expedition is is exactly that evolution. Because we had this scientist, Heidi Sylvester, who's amazing. She's this really passionate glaciologist. She's French. And so she was there doing a bunch of science experiments for for different universities around the world. Basically, all sort of climate science, like glaciology related. because Greenland is one of the most important places in the world for climate change. And, you know, that's the kind of thing that makes a trip like that feel a little bit more worthwhile.

1:25:37It's not just you going after some adventure, but it's you working on research that you care about. Yeah, and working on something that actually matters for the world. You know, it's like I can make a show where it's like, oh, we're just climbing this extreme rock. and you're like, that's cool. But realistically, I'd rather just do that by myself and not make a show about it. You know, it's like, if you're going to put something on television, it may as well be somewhat useful and it may as well, you know, highlight important parts of the world and bring knowledge around things that matter. And so, you know, the Greenland ice sheet is melting.

1:26:09The ice sheet is the big part in the middle. Like when you look at a map of Greenland, it's like the whole center of Greenland is ice. And if the Greenland ice sheet melts, you know, raises sea levels by something like 20 feet, which affects hundreds of million people around the world. It's like, you know, half the major cities in the world are on the coast. It's like, you know, New York and London and Tokyo, like all these places, you know, underwater, Buenos Aires, I don't know. And so, but nobody thinks about Greenland. You know, like nobody thinks about the Greenland ice sheet. Not many people live there too.

1:26:38Yeah, nobody lives there. I mean, in Greenland, some people live on the... Yeah, but even Greenland, like so few people live in Greenland. And so, you know, I think that in some ways that makes a trip like that feel a lot more worthwhile. Wow, that's cool. And that's part of your foundation too, right? Well, the work my foundation is doing is unrelated to something like this expedition. But yeah, I have a foundation that supports solar projects around the world and has been doing so for the last decade or so. Wow, that's cool. What made you want to get into that? Same idea, just trying to do something useful.

1:27:11Yeah. You know, just feeling like, like climbing is fun and I love doing it, but ultimately climbing is just for you or, you know, just for me. It's like, it's like a selfish endeavor in some sense. Yeah. Yeah. Or it's a person like, yeah, people always say climbing is selfish. Like climbers like to say, oh, like climbing is selfish. And I don't, I don't really love that because like any human activity is sort of selfish. Sure. Sure. Or most human activities are. But yeah, climbing is generally a self-driven pursuit. and it's nice to do something slightly more useful in the world yeah with the foundation it kind of came about because you know and i'm sure you can relate to being given all kinds of interesting opportunities that are fun and you don't want to turn them down but you also don't totally need them because your livelihood is already made i was living in a van i'm totally comfortable i'm doing the things i want to do i'm having a great time i'm living my best life and if somebody offers you like a tv commercial thing and you're like i'd like to do it it's fun it's crazy money for like doing almost no work but you're kind of like why do that if you don't need to and the foundation was a nice way to say yes to the fun opportunities but then use that for something useful in the world that's cool and so um how long were you living in the van for uh like 15 years or something 15 years later i lived in this really small ford conline for uh like a van you can't stand up in for nine years i think and then i lived in a dodge pro master for another five-ish or six-ish.

1:28:35How much was the, those two, uh, cars? How much did they cost? Yeah. The first one I think was, uh, I think it was 10 grand. 10 grand. You lived in that for nine years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. That's crazy. And then the first one, uh, I went through three different build outs in it. And the first build out my uncle and I did with random wood, he had around a shop that was just leftover. So literally the van costs, you know, yeah, 10 grand. And then I lived in it for several years. And then I redid the interior a couple of times as I got a little more wow yeah you got a couple dollars here and there exactly yeah so i spent another like five grand redoing the interior oh yeah yeah it was big big money and then the second time i splurged buying a new pro master a van that i could stand in like nice with like a little like faucet or like a bathroom well yeah so the van was just new and nice and that was like 30k or something and then the build that was probably i don't know another 10 or 20.

1:29:25so how long did you live in that one another five six years wow and then that one i would have kept living in but i actually crashed it um sadly i rolled it which is a total botch and then um but then coincidentally we found out the mom was pregnant right after that so we were kind of like well we need something different anyway because it doesn't have any seats so what did you get a bus no now we know we have a longer van a longer van yeah still still like a van that you can camp in but um with your daughter yeah yeah we've camped with her several months you live in the van still or do you no we live in a house but now we go to yosemite for a month or two every year with the with the family yeah with babies wow so you've upgraded to a house yeah i live in a house and then and also we've upgraded the van and yeah both yeah now it has kids seats so 15 years man in a van almost yeah yeah for by choice because you were like i want to be able to travel on a remote i don't want to have a lot of possessions yeah maybe it was like 12 or 13 really like in the van because we bought the house that one it's been a steady transition where we're in the house more i mean especially with kids now we're in the house a little more wow though i wouldn't be surprised if as the kids grow up a little bit we can be in the van more again that's cool man but having infants it's like it's just having the routine and nap time it's just easier with the house yeah what's the greatest lesson you learned living in a van for 12 years that you just don't need that much stuff i mean i think that's the main thing it's like you just don't need stuff i mean you want to do whatever you want to do in your life.

1:30:56Just focus on doing that thing and you don't need any of the extra stuff. I mean, I still have that problem with my wife all the time. She has decorations and things. I'm like, why does this exist? What is this? You know, like a throw pillow. We don't need it. It's called a throw pillow because you throw it in the trash. You don't use it for anything. Decorative pillows drive me insane. Stuff that doesn't have any function. No value. Not even as value, but if you don't use it all the time. I just don't want to be a slave to my stuff. like you don't want to be like moving your stuff around you know the thing about living in a van is that you have very few things and it's all the stuff that you need like it's only in the van because you use it all the time you spend your time on the things you want to do and not i guess managing things and stuff yeah you know it's just like a simpler lifestyle that's devoted entirely to the thing that you want to do i mean the thing with being in a van is that it is fundamentally uncomfortable you know like you don't have a shower you don't have a bathroom you don't have whatever and so it is harder living it's like colder you're more exposed the elements it's like you're living in a box parked on the side of the road a lot of the time so it's not that comfortable but it means that you're totally focused on whatever you're in the van for you know it's like either you're there to go hiking or they go back right you know in my case i'm always there to go climbing but it's like you're there to climb so you climb you know like on rest days you go scrambling because it's like there's not that much to do in your van right right it's like you just wind up being totally focused on the thing that you're doing.

1:32:19Wow. That's cool, man. It's a cool lifestyle. It's a very intentional lifestyle. Very intentional. And I think that that kind of intention can be brought to normal life. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, we can watch the show. It's Nat Geo launching February 4th on Disney Plus, right? Arctic Ascent with Alex Honnold. And I'm excited for this, man. The trailer, again, looks incredible. So congrats on this. It's going to be a lot of fun. How else can we support you or follow you besides checking out the show and checking out your foundation? Yeah, I mean, you can go to honnoldfoundation.org, see the work that my foundation is doing with solar projects around the world.

1:32:56I mean, anybody can follow me on any social platform, just Alex Honnold. I've got a couple final questions for you, but this has been inspiring, so I appreciate your time, Alex. This is a question I ask everyone at the end of my interview is called the three truths. It's a hypothetical question. Imagine you get to live as long as you want to live, but it's the last day you've accomplished everything. You've experienced life. You've learned to, um, you know, share words of affirmation with your wife eventually, you know, all these seven hundred and fifty. Exactly. It's taken a while. Everything you want to create, you know, you, you've lived a great life from this moment until the end of time, but it's the last day for you and for whatever reason you have to take everything you've ever created with you so this interview is gone books you write the movies you've been in anything all the social media posts that you love putting out there they're gone however you do get to leave behind three things three lessons that you leave to the world i like to call it three truths what would those three truths be for you do you think man this is all we would have to remember you by i just don't i think i think if i was at the end of my life and i was content i would just go i don't know if i'd have any truths so i think if you wipe the rest of the slate clean it's just like i just don't think that i mean to me i think that the whole but if people had they wanted to remember you by something and they could only remember three things that you learned and experienced and you were able to share those things what would those three things be do you just go big with an exclamation i use that as a i sign things that way whenever you when you have to like sign things at events but it's kind of also one of my favorite things now just go big and just like go for it you know you can sort of take whatever lesson you want from it but it's like do the thing you know like try but i think that also that's that just sums up so much of i've seen just go big go big one truth yeah that's my one truth go big okay i kind of think so because I just think to get into other truths requires too much nuance and subtlety and like, you know, the richness of a life.

1:35:04And I just don't know if you can distill that down to it. Just be like, if everything else is being wiped, you just step away and you're just gone. That's fine. But this goes back to everyone's replaceable. You know, I'm like, if my whole life gets erased, like there'll be somebody else leading an awesome life. You know, like all the things that I've learn from climbing somebody else could learn from unicycling or whatever other activity you know it's like i think that human lives in many ways are sort of interchangeable you know like we can all learn how to lead good lives in different ways you know like somebody can devote their entire life to their garden and still learn all the same things that i have in my life about like experiencing hardship and trying hard and like overcoming and persevering like anybody can learn that however yeah sort of like i don't know what would be one extra thing you leave behind for your for your daughters if you could share a truth with them daddy loves you it's my my i don't know i think that's probably the i mean if you're gonna leave your child one thing that's probably the most important thing like you are loved i guess that's beautiful man that's a good one honestly that's beautiful man we'll see if i can manage that when uh when the time comes oh man that's beautiful um before i ask the final question i was i want to acknowledge you, man, for what a life you have lived and an intentional life on the things that you wanted to pursue and are still pursuing.

1:36:29But again, living a life in a van essentially for 12, 13 years, very intentional to pursue something you care about the most. I just want to acknowledge you for going big, like going for it and consistently going for it. But I also want to acknowledge you for allowing yourself to evolve at this new season of life. You know, having kids, raising a family, being in a relationship, and allowing yourself to also evolve. Like, you've been going big, but you're also evolving with it as well. And I think it's really inspiring that people can have both love in their lives, relationships, but also be pursuing their dreams at the highest level, even if no one else has done that.

1:37:10So, it's really cool what you've done, and I just want to acknowledge you for that uh for this moment yeah of course that's something actually that my wife has always pushed you know she's this this false contrast between like doing rad things and being in a good relationship which i think you're often portrayed that way in in media is like you can either be alone doing something rad or you can be in a happy relationship my wife is always like why don't you do the rad thing in a happy relationship yeah and uh and like basically from the very beginning of our relationship she's always kind of been steadfast and like Like, why don't you just do something hard while being well-adjusted in a good relationship?

1:37:44And it's funny because until we got together, I was like, is that an option? I kind of thought you needed the angst and the turmoil and the like... Suffering. Yeah, exactly. The loneliness. Yeah, the dark artist. And now being with her, I'm like, oh, yeah, okay. I guess you can actually just have a really nice life and still do hard things, but just do it with a big smile. I'm like, it is kind of a better way to go. It's a way better way to go. And support and friendship and collaboration and all that stuff. Final question, Alex, what's your definition of greatness? I mean, I think I'd just go with this sort of standard definition of like doing hard things, like achieving things I haven't done before.

1:38:22And I mean, I know that I should take a more inclusive, you know, just like living a good life and all that. But I'm like, no, I think of greatness as doing something challenging that hasn't been done before. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend.

1:38:55Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I wanna remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.