Brené Brown: How to Stop Betraying Yourself to Be Accepted

20:26Lewis Howes:Really? No, no, no, no. Like, yeah, like our family motto was literally lock and load. Like get ready, you know, family trips. You're in the car for five hours. That's all six of us. You really have to go to the bathroom, but the rest stop is on the other side of the highway. We're not pulling over. Like, suck it up. Hold it. Like, we were tough. We were tough. Like, we'd fall down and get hurt. You know, my dad would say, like, I got bigger scratches than that on my eyeball. You know, like, yeah. Like, we were tough. And so, and we were taught to outrun vulnerability. We were taught to suck it up, soldier on, get her done.

21:03Yeah. And so however hard that was for me growing up, imagine what it was like for my parents in the 50s. You know, my dad, who was the youngest of six, his dad died when he was 16.

21:17Lewis Howes:Was he able to process that or no? No, he just did the next thing you do. Played football, played college ball. My mom, who's my grandmother, who I named my daughter after, was an alcoholic. And she was drunk every other day of my mom's life. but she was the most amazing person in the world. But everyone knew she was an alcoholic, so my mom wasn't allowed to have friends at her house growing up, because it was the 50s and she was divorced. And so my mom became the head of the drill team and the valedictorian. And so however hard it was for me growing up, having to try to outrun vulnerability, it was a million times harder on my parents.

21:57And they did what they knew how to do. and they loved us as much as they could love us with the tools they had. And so I don't have, I think the hard part comes from people that I've interviewed my whole life where the parents don't grow and change. And they see anything a child trying to do differently as criticism of what they did, as opposed to my parents who lean in and say, tell me more about that. I have a funny story. We hear a funny story about my dad. Yeah, it's great. So we do a lot of choice theory with my daughter and my son. And so choice, my husband's a pediatrician. Okay. So like we know a lot about child development from our, just from school.

22:37Right. And so when Ellen was little, we used to do this thing where we would say, you know, you have two choices. Like, Lewis, you have two choices. You can either hand me the water, I'm going to have to take it from you. What is your choice? So that if you decide not to hand it to me and I have to take it, it's not my fault. That was your choice. That was your choice, right? And so one night I was talking to Ellen and we were at my dad's house in Santana and I was like, Ellie, you need to turn off Dora the Explorer. It's time to go to bed. She's like, mm-mm. And I said, Ellen, you have two choices.

23:05You can get up and turn off the TV or I'm going to get it up and turn it off for you. And if I have to get up and turn off the TV, you're going to lose privileges to watch it tomorrow.

23:13Lewis Howes:And that's your choice. Yeah, that's your choice. And I would hate that for you, but that will be your choice. and my dad was sitting in the recliner next to me. He's like, ah, damn, sis, what are you raising? A hostage negotiator? I was like, dad. And he's like, seriously, Renee? We had four of y 'all. We didn't have time for that. So the next day I come home, I'm visiting friends in San Antonio and he's watching Ellen and he's in the driveway. It's like 110 degrees in San Antonio and he's sweating. He's like, Ellen, you have two choices. You can either put the bicycle up or I'm gonna have to put it up for you.

23:45And the second one's a dumb ass choice. So I was like, wow, you're so close.

23:49Lewis Howes:You're getting there. You're getting there. My parents are amazing in that way that like they're learning and changing. So I think it's harder when parents say, I'm done. What you got was what you got. No apologies. No change. Take it or leave it. And if you do it differently with your own kids, you're a sucker. Wow. And I think we see that a lot. Yeah, we do. Go. Tax and bonus season is one of those sneaky little moments. You check your account, you see a refund or a bonus, and for about 10 seconds, you feel rich. Like, ooh, maybe I'll go buy some expensive gift for myself. Then reality kicks in.

24:31Lewis Howes:But here's the thing. That moment right there is actually kind of powerful for us. For most of us, extra money hits the account and suddenly it already has plans because something needs to be fixed. something needs paid for, or something you've wanted for forever is calling your name. There's no shame in this. Life is full. Things break. Plans pop up. But what if just for a minute you paused, like just for a second, not because you have to, but because you want to ask a better question, not what can I buy right now, but what would actually feel good about this later? And instead of the moment running you, you make an intentional move, not a big dramatic one, just a simple decision that leaves you feeling a little more steady and a little more in control, specifically with your money.

25:21Lewis Howes:And if you get a tax refund or a bonus, try asking a different question. Not what can I buy today, but how can I give my bonus a bonus? Or how can I turn my tax refund into more funds? It's a small shift, but it changes the energy. And suddenly it isn't just extra cash, it's an opportunity. One simple intentional decision can help you feel a little bit more in control, a little more steady. And honestly, that feels better than an impulse purchase you forget about in two weeks. And that's why I like how U.S. Bank approaches tax and bonus season. They know these moments matter. U.S. Bank Smart Lease Savings is designed for people who want flexibility while earning competitive promotional rates.

26:11Lewis Howes:And if you are in a place where you do not need immediate access to that money, U.S. Bank CD Specials let you lock in a guaranteed rate for a set period of time. It's so simple, it's straightforward, and it's about saving your way. Growing your money without overcomplicating it, U.S. Bank can be a trusted partner when you decide to be a little more intentional with a financial boost. Visit usbank.com slash savings to get started. Savings rates vary based on the presence of an additional eligible product and combined qualifying balances. CD rates vary by term and location. Member FDIC. One of the biggest money mistakes I see people make is waiting for the perfect time to get serious about their finances.

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27:36Lewis Howes:Having someone in my corner helps me make clearer decisions and stay focused on building a future I am proud of. Find a better way to money at nm.com. The Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and Northwestern Mutual Wealth Management Company. Paid testimonial by a Northwestern Mutual Policy owner. I mean, what should parents be learning about how they can grow? I mean, how can they start to be aware? Because I think it starts with being aware. Yeah, for sure. Of what they know and what they don't know. And being receptive to learning something different, which is really hard to do.

28:10Lewis Howes:I think once you've had these habits for so long. So that's the first thing. and I want to dive into the lack of vulnerability with what's happening in Charlottesville right now as well because I know you did something on that this morning. So I guess how can parents listen to this and be aware and be willing to move forward in a different way of learning something new when they're so stuck in their ways, potentially, that it's worked for them to this point to get to where they're at?

28:40You know, I think...

28:45I believe this with my whole heart. I believe that 99.9 % of parents are truly waking up every day and doing the very best they can with what they have. I don't think there are a lot of parents who wake up and maliciously try to screw up their kids or hurt their kids or belittle or shame their kids. I think we're doing the best we can with what we have. And so I think to let go of the idea that if I have done something that I could have done better or that I could learn from, that I have to just come down. People defend their parenting like they're defending their lives because it's such a shame minefield.

29:21You know, I mean, a great example is the work you're doing around men and vulnerability. I cannot tell you the number of fathers in the hundreds, if not thousands of fathers I've interviewed that said, I shamed my son every time he was vulnerable.

29:35Lewis Howes:Yeah. Yeah. I put him down. I made fun of them. I hit him every time he was vulnerable. And now I look back and I know it's because that's the way I was raised or I was afraid he'd be soft and get hurt at school or whatever the thing is. And so I think for parents, it's about understanding, giving yourself permission to not have been... I'm not perfect. I've never not been a researcher and a parent. My husband's a pediatrician. Our kids will be in therapy. And the reason why I think that'll be so successful is there's only two kinds of kids you raise. Kids who will ask for help when they need it or kids who won't.

30:14And that's as good as it gets is to raise a kid who will ask for help. Yeah.

30:17Lewis Howes:I never asked for help. I was always suffering inside. And I always felt shameful, guilty. And I just, my way of asking was being angry, resentful, mad, hitting people in sports or outside of sports. Cause that's all I knew. I'll tell you a story about a guy that that I interviewed, one of the first men I interviewed when I went from interviewing all women to men was a guy who I said, what a shame for you. And he used the P-U-S-S-Y word, which is like just synonymous with shame in male culture, right? And he said, I'll never forget the day that changed my life. He said, I was at football practice.

30:55I was a freshman in high school. And he said, the coach yelled, get on the line. And I didn't want to get on the line, the line of scrimmage, in case people don't know. I know you know. But he asked me to make sure I walked through all the sports metaphors with him now.

31:10Lewis Howes:Exactly. And he said, I was afraid to get on the line because I know, you know, it's where people crash into each other. And so I must have had fear on my face because my coach looked at me and said, don't be a P-U-S-S-Y, get on the line. And he said, that's the day that I learned that the way you deal with that is you change that fear into rage. And he said, and I just plowed over the guy across from me. And then he said, then I spent the next 20 years plowing over my wife, my children, my colleagues, the people who worked for me. He said, that's what I did with my fear. Yeah. I mean, I can definitely relate.

31:51Lewis Howes:Yeah. I mean, I remember being picked last on a team once when it was a co-ed sport. We were playing dodgeball on the playground. I think it was third or fourth grade. And there was two captains, two guys. And they were picking one at a time, right? Oh, God, brutal. They pick all the guys. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to be the last guy chosen. Yeah. But then they go and pick all the girls. And then I'm going to pick my name. I'm just by default the last picker's team. And so as a boy trying to fit in in third, fourth grade, it was devastating. And I told myself in that moment, I was like, never again will I be picked last at any sport.

32:29I'll do whatever it takes.

32:30Lewis Howes:I am going to be a machine. I'm going to train for six hours a night. I'm going to take no prisoners mentality. I mean, I dominated on that dodgeball game that day. I was just like throwing the ball, just diving everywhere. I was like, never again. And did you ever get picked last again? Never got picked last again. Right. But, and it helped me achieve, you know, was all state in multiple sports, was all American in two sports, I broke world records, I played professional football, I play on the USA handball team now. And it guided me towards achieving these things, but it left me feeling very unfulfilled every time I'd achieved them.

33:03Lewis Howes:Or any time we lose, it was like an attack on my life. Every loss we ever had on a sport, it was like my life was at stake. And I felt like I was worthless. Because if I didn't win... Yeah. that meant no one was going to accept me or I wasn't good enough or I was going to be picked last or something. So I would take it so personally when I wouldn't win. And then I would take it out of my family, my girlfriends, my friends, everything. And I didn't know how to communicate. And I'm still learning. I'm still imperfect every day. But it's like I wasn't even aware. There was never information about how to connect or how to communicate and feel like it was okay or you're allowed to.

33:42Lewis Howes:Because anytime you try to talk about any vulnerabilities as a guy growing up for me, it was like you're P-U-S-S-Y. Yeah. Don't be a little girl. Yeah. Don't be a B-I-T-C-H. You know, all these things. And so I think it's very hard for me and especially for a lot of men who grew up to stand alone and feel like they belong in an isolated world. If they're not going to join a group, that's going to make fun of them or put other people down. So how do we stand alone when we're not introverted or we want to be around other people? How can men communicate better or feel like it's okay to be vulnerable?

34:16Lewis Howes:Because we were talking before about how most men that I know played sports with would never watch The Power of Vulnerability, TED Talk, or they would never read books from you or Oprah that I'm aware of. Because they would talk bad about female leaders trying to talk about vulnerability. They would say, that's soft. That's weak. I don't watch that stuff. I don't read that stuff. When really, that's the stuff we need the most, in my opinion. And I think it's changing. I think I told you earlier that I think 50 % of the readers of Daring Greatly are men and the vast majority of leaders who bring me into organizations are men.

34:50And I'll tell you why. Wise men. I can flip it for you on a dime. So it used to take me when men would say, this is how the call would go. Hey, we'd love for you to come in and work with our leadership team. shame. We saw your TED talk. We thought it was great. Are you available? And I'd say, sure. What do you want me to talk about? And they'd say, anything but vulnerability and shame. And I would say - Why? So what do you want me to talk about if I don't talk about vulnerability? And they'd say courage. And then I would say, okay. Then I would try to spend like a half an hour explaining the relationship between vulnerability and courage.

35:27Because all men want to be brave. Isn't vulnerability courage? Vulnerability is courage. So I only have to ask - Isn't vulnerability power? Yes, I have to ask one question to flip the whole thing. It's this. Vulnerability is defined as uncertainty, risk, and emotional exposure. Can you name one act of courage that you've ever been involved in or that you've ever even witnessed that did not involve uncertainty, risk, and emotional exposure? And it's a loaded question because I know the answer is no, because I've asked it thousands and thousands. I've stood in front of Navy SEALs and Special Forces military personnel and said, give me an example.

36:06I want you to try hard to give me an example of courage that didn't require vulnerability. And in 10 years, I've never had a single person be able to come up. I've even had two guys come up to me who were in the military that said, we're going to think about it and get with you. And I said, oh, my God. I said, do it. I would love it. Give me an example of courage, even on the field that doesn't involve vulnerability. If you think you're being brave and it doesn't involve risk or uncertainty, you're not being that brave. If you know how it's going to turn out, it's not courage. And so in that moment, people go, but I want to be brave and I don't want to be vulnerable.

36:49and I'm like, therein lies the great dilemma of our time. Yeah. No one wants to be uncomfortable. No one wants to be vulnerable and everyone wants to be brave. And it just doesn't work like that.

37:02Lewis Howes:Right. And anytime we try something new, we've got to be uncomfortable. Yeah, it's vulnerable. I mean, when I ask people, what is vulnerability? People would say, initiating sex with my wife, sending my child out the door who thinks he's going to make the first chair in orchestra and knowing he's probably not going to make the orchestra at all. Getting fired. Starting my own business. Saying I love you first in a relationship. Trying to get pregnant after my first miscarriage. I mean, like, vulnerability is, it's uncertainty. It's not knowing, but doing it anyway because it's the brave thing to do.

37:38And so the problem is, I think, that the greatest shame trigger for men is do not be perceived as weak. And in our culture, we believe that vulnerability is weakness. So you don't have to skip too many steps before you go, hey, it's shaming to be vulnerable. And so men do two things in the face of shame, pissed off or shut down.

38:09Lewis Howes:Put on a mask. Put on a mask. And so what we're learning and what people are starting to see very quickly is you cannot be a courageous leader if you're not vulnerable, if you're not willing to have hard, uncomfortable conversations, give hard feedback, receive hard feedback, excavate issues like Charlottesville that no one wants to talk about. Like discomfort is the great enemy of courage. Like my motto is, we say it here all the time, choose courage over comfort because you can't have both. And if you think you're being brave and you're super comfortable, you're not being that brave. Is there an area of your life right now where you don't feel you're courageous enough?

38:59Lewis Howes:Something you've been wanting to say to people that you haven't said fully or holding I think the Charlottesville Facebook Live today was hard. Was it? Yeah. Oh, yes. My voice was shaking. I was shaking. In fact, we got here today and we knew we were going to film us together, but we were going to film some other stuff first. I said, I just need to do the Facebook Live because I don't want to lose my courage. And I think that's hard because when you talk about race and privilege and power, first of all, I'm going to get death threats and people are going to say all that stuff. You're wrong. either way.

39:34But the ability that I have to opt out of speaking out about it because it doesn't supposedly affect me is the definition of privilege. So I don't believe we can opt out of it. And I know that I'm white, upper middle class, really educated, Judeo-Christian, straight. I know that I've got blinders on that no matter how hard I work, I will say something that is not right. And people will come back and they will fire off against me around it and it will hurt, but I'd rather take the chance and it hurting and learning. But it's scary to talk about this stuff today. Do you think? I think.

40:17Lewis Howes:It's really hard. And I try to come from a place of like super authentic and loving of all humanity all the time. I was raised by, I had two great parents, but my mom and two older sisters were really the ones who came back to me after they would go on a date with a guy, they'd be like, Lewis, never do this on a date. Always treat women this way. So I've always tried my best. I'm imperfect in so many ways and constantly make mistakes with people. Yeah, me too. But most of my team, I was telling you before, most of my team is women. I think 80 % of my team is women. And they get paid more than the men on my team, not because they're women, but because they produce better results.

40:56Lewis Howes:And my business is based on results. I've got people of different ethnicities, I've got people of different sexual orientations. And I had someone tell me last week, they said, you know, white male privilege is a thing. And I think you need to incorporate more values into your organization so that you're not living from this white male privilege place. And I was thinking to my, I was hurt by this because I get it. I'm white. I can't, there's nothing I can do based on the way I was born. There's nothing I can do. I can't change the way and how I was born, but I can choose to determine how I want to live and how I want to show up on the world.

41:31Lewis Howes:So I'm constantly trying to be mindful of speaking out more. Because I think that's what a lot of my friends are saying about Charlottesville. If white men aren't opening up and talking about this more, it's not going to come across to the people that are, I guess, marching with torches, which just blows my mind that this is happening still. It blows me away that this is happening. I don't even understand it. I'm like, I'm blown away. I don't know. And I'm just like, how can I be a better, more impactful in this place? And how can we get rid of this? How can we end it? Do you have the answer? I don't know.

42:08It just blows my mind. No. And I think we need to do a lot more listening and hear from the people who've been affected by this the longest. I think we do need to speak out. I think white silence around these issues is death. I mean, I just think it's terrible. I don't think we can come in and save the day. I think we need to come in with humility and curiosity and say, this is what I think, and I want to learn, and if I make mistakes, let me know, and I'll try to make them better. And I think we need to take responsibility. And I think it's easier sometimes for me in my life

42:52to just keep asking questions, just keep reading, just keep talking about it. And when I am so uncomfortable that I don't want to do it anymore just to keep doing it because to remember that my discomfort is, you know, that's my privilege. Yeah. And so I don't know that there's an answer other than discussions. And I'm not, I wasn't surprised about Charlottesville really. You weren't. No.

43:15Lewis Howes:I just really, it just blows my mind. Maybe I'm just ignorant to that. I don't think it's about being ignorant to it. It doesn't... You know, I've studied shame for 15 years and fear. Like, that's what it looks like. Yeah. What do you think these individuals marching like this are most shameful of in their own life? Why are they so protective? I would never mention to guess. I don't know. But I do think it's about powerlessness. They feel powerless. Yeah. And I think that people go, oh, my God. Okay, so the white guy in the khakis and the fancy polo shirt feels powerless and cry me a river. I think we don't give a shit about that at our own peril.

44:02Not caring about it and not trying to understand it. I'm not taking it on my load for sure. I'm not going to add it to my back. I've got other stuff to do. But I am going to try to understand it because I can't imagine a way through what needs to happen over the next decade that does not involve understanding pain. There's this incredible James Baldwin quote that says, now I understand why people hold onto their hate so stubbornly because once they let it go, there's nothing but pain. And I think we dismiss and don't care about that pain at our own peril because pain will make itself known. It will not be dismissed.

44:57It's not an affect or an emotion that dissipates when it's ignored.

45:02Lewis Howes:Yeah. Well, I think this is fascinating. you're saying this because I never wanted to feel the emotional pain. It was so hard to go through. I got a breakup with a girlfriend. I didn't know how to deal with the emotional loss of any type of pain or suffering as a man. And I remember being in the fetal position my freshman year of college for days, sobbing in my dorm room, just curled up on a ball because a relationship ended and I was so sad to be alone and I didn't have this person in my life anymore. And I would take it out on the football field. I was like, I don't want to feel this type of emotional pain.

45:39Lewis Howes:So how can I inflict as much physical pain on myself and other people to get it out? And it's hard to switch that off and just be like this loving, vulnerable man after you're on the football field, like inflicting pain on other people because you're supposed to. No. And I think whether we play football or not, we're much better at causing pain than we are feeling pain. You don't want to feel it. No, you don't. And so we cause it and we hurt other people. Yeah, we do. And if you look at leadership, whether you're in an organization leading a country, leading a family, as a parent, one of the cheapest, easiest ways to lead is to give people someone to hate and blame for your misery.

46:21And so we have to really watch that in our country right now. So all you have to do when people are in uncertainty and fear is give them someone to blame and give them a reason to blame them and then step back and watch everything just fall apart. And so I think that's happening right now in our country. And so we have to push away the rhetoric. We have to own our pain. And let me tell you, it's not like you tell that story about the football field and it's so prophetic because every crisis we're up against right now, almost without exception, is about our inability, our unwillingness to deal with pain.

47:10If you look at the opioid addiction right now, somewhere, beginning with physicians, sent the message, there's no reason for you to hurt at all.

47:21Lewis Howes:Here's a pain reliever. Here's a pain reliever. And things are not going well in your life. Well, here's a way to discharge hate and pain that'll make you feel better. Like we - By drinking or by drinking or sex or drugs, whatever. Yeah. Medicated, addicted, in debt, and obese Americans in history. Our tolerance for discomfort is zero. Soft. Yeah. So here's the irony. Soft. So our tolerance - What we're taught in football. Don't be soft. Don't be soft. So it's actually our inability to be vulnerable that makes us weak. Yeah, I agree. One of the things I talk about and try to express to as many people as possible is to actually put yourself through pain and discomfort every single day.

48:07Lewis Howes:I try to do this physically through working out to try to push myself farther than I want to where I'm like emotionally want to cry. Yeah. Because I just know by conditioning myself to feel pain every single day that when a lot of stuff comes my way, I'm capable of taking it on and processing the emotions as opposed to being like, I just need a drink. I need this. I need that. I've never been drunk in my life, so I don't even know what that feels like. But it's hard, especially as for myself. I'll speak for myself as a man. It's hard growing up, learning how to deal with those type of emotions.

48:41Lewis Howes:It's really challenging. There's no class in school that says, okay, when you're feeling this way, Louis, here's how you're supposed to act. It's vulnerability. Yeah. Here's how you're supposed to act. Here's the step-by-step process. There's no process that we're taught unless it's our parents or we seek it out. And it's not modeled because I think parents fear kind of soft boys turning into soft men. I remember interviewing this guy who was in his 70s and I said, what is shame to you? And he's like, shame is being the kid you can shove up against the lockers. Yeah. Yeah. Shame is being the kid that you shove up?

49:18Yeah. Being the kid that you can shove up against the lockers. Yeah.

49:22Lewis Howes:Tax and bonus season is one of those sneaky little moments. You check your account, you see a refund or a bonus, and for about 10 seconds, you feel rich. Like, ooh, maybe I'll go buy some expensive gift for myself. Then reality kicks in. But here is the thing. That moment right there is actually kind of powerful for us. For most of us, extra money hits the account and suddenly it already has plans because something needs to be fixed, something needs paid for, or something you've wanted for forever is calling your name. There's no shame in this. Life is full. Things break. Plans pop up. But what if just for a minute you paused, like just for a second, not because you have to, but because you want to ask a better question.

50:09Lewis Howes:Not what can I buy right now, but what would actually feel good about this later? And instead of the moment running you, you make an intentional move, not a big dramatic one, just a simple decision that leaves you feeling a little more steady and a little more in control, specifically with your money. And if you get a tax refund or a bonus, try asking a different question. Not what can I buy today, but how can I give my bonus a bonus? Or how can I turn my tax refund into more funds? It's a small shift, but it changes the energy. And suddenly it isn't just extra cash. It's an opportunity. One simple intentional decision can help you feel a little bit more in control, a little more steady.

50:59Lewis Howes:And honestly, that feels better than an impulse purchase you forget about in two weeks. And that's why I like how U.S. Bank approaches tax and bonus season. They know these moments matter. U.S. Bank Smart Lease Savings is designed for people who want flexibility while earning competitive promotional rates. And if you are in a place where you do not need immediate access to that money, U.S. Bank CD Specials let you lock in a guaranteed rate for a set period of time. It's so simple, it's straightforward, and it's about saving your way. Growing your money without overcomplicating it, U.S. Bank can be a trusted partner when you decide to be a little more intentional with a financial boost.

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52:23Lewis Howes:and built-in intelligence that makes updates around your schedule, not in the middle of it. Find technology built for the way you work at dell.com slash PCs. Built for you.

52:38You know, and it's like, but really,

52:46we've got to shift it and we've got to shift it. I think it starts parenting, school, Athletics is huge.

52:52Lewis Howes:Huge. I mean, it's a really – I mean, let me do this. Okay, let's do this sports thing. Let's do it. Okay, ready? Okay. Two football teams. You're going to place a bet. Okay. Both of them have hurt quarterbacks. Both of them are playing – well, both of them have hurt quarterbacks. This team over here recognizes its vulnerability, and it's going to put in a second-stream quarterback. This team ignores its vulnerability and pretends like it doesn't exist. Who are you betting on? Hmm. Depends on the injury. Oh, Jesus. Hey, because I played hurt my whole life, you know. Yeah, I would say that most of us would say you are less likely to win if you do not acknowledge your vulnerabilities.

53:37Right, right, right. So even if you play your quarterback, you've got to make sure your line is ready.

53:42Lewis Howes:Exactly. And you've got to switch the plays up. Right. If his arms hurt, you're going to pass it off. You're going to pass it off. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, give them more time in the hole, whatever you're going to do. The team that acknowledges their vulnerabilities. Is going to be more successful. And is adaptable to change. Right. Is going to be more successful. Right. Yes. Right. So why do we think, as men, to pretend like you're not vulnerable makes you the most vulnerable? Yeah. Makes you the most susceptible? I mean, we just have data. I mean, just like I could fill this whole room with data about you don't get to opt out.

54:16Let me ask you this. Do you know a guy in the world, and you know a lot of guys, right, who can say, I've existed at this point in my life without being uncertain, at risk, or emotionally exposed? No. Right. You can't not do vulnerability, but you can pretend like you don't. Then you're not making choices over the behaviors you engage in when you're vulnerable. Yeah. Then you don't know when you're vulnerable, and then you're acting nutty.

54:42Lewis Howes:And I think you pay major prices. Oh, yeah. When you don't, when you aren't aware or when you're not acting like you're aware. Yeah. You just act like everything's fine or you don't need help, you don't need support, you don't need to address a situation or grieve or whatever it is. That's when you get hurt the most. It's when you get hurt the most. You suffer the most. And I think that's when the most anger, frustration, rage, and I guess divergent happens. And I was watching this video last night where they were documenting the whole process of the Charlottesville thing. I think Vice was doing this.

55:16Lewis Howes:And the person interviewing the leader, one of the guys who was the leader of the marches or whatever, was saying about how this is our land and our forefathers were whites and it belongs to us. It's like this whole thing that it belongs to a certain race or something. I can't, it just blows my mind. It's like - Forgetting clearly about the Native Americans who were here before we took it. Right, exactly. But I mean, it just blows my mind that all this comes back to feeling like we need to belong, I guess, and protect what was ours or what's our right, something. It all comes back to identity and belonging.

55:50Lewis Howes:Belonging, yeah. But underneath identity and belonging, there's something that we don't talk about, and it comes down to power. It comes down to power. I mean, I think what we're witnessing is power over his last stand. And that's what I love. You write about how I think most men who come from this place feel like power is only one person and one group can have the power as opposed to we can spread the power throughout the world. Like it's a pepperoni pizza. Right. Like if I give Lewis a little power, I'm going to have less. So make sure I'm comfortable giving it to you when it's not. Don't give any slices away.

56:25Don't give slices away. Hold all the... And so what we see around the world right now, not just with this administration, but globally is we see the concept of power over making a last stand. And it is not going to work. What is going to work moving forward with the completely devastatingly difficult problems we have at hand is power with and power to. Power with each other. Collective power. The things that are killing us right now, we're not going to solve by ourselves as a nation. They're global issues. We need global solutions. We need everyone at the table for them. But that is a really, I mean, we are at a huge turning point in history.

57:08that should not be minimized or misunderstood. I mean, for the first time ever, the problems that challenge us the most are problems that will not be solved with national solutions. They are global problems that require global solutions and collaboration. And for a lot of people, that's really scary. Hard. Hard, hard. What about us? What about me? you know um and last stands you know about last stands last stands are violent yeah last last

57:43Lewis Howes:stands are fueled by desperation whatever it takes and beer and whatever it takes and risking it all risking it all and so what you're seeing right now are people risking it all showing up at these marches with freaking tiki torches i mean like it's not even started around the polynesian how Polynesian people feel about their tiki torches. But I mean, like with tiki torches, basically, basically mimicking the Ku Klux Klan. It's so great. But without cheats, this is power over his last stand. And these folks are nostalgic for a time that never existed. Where they thought they had the power. Yeah.

58:26What they're interested in is it was so much better back then. And what they're not saying is when people knew their place. And so it's going to get harder. If you had a message to give to our nation's leader, what would you say?

58:54Roosevelt said that the presidency, above all else, is a place for moral leadership. and I believe there are lines that we do not cross their morality lines etched in dignity about people's inherent worth and we should never cross those lines and they have been crossed so many times around immigration around women around building walls um and that at the very least, we can argue about policy. We can argue about whether, you know, social security lock boxes or what should we do around taxation, healthcare, those are important things. But at the very least, a person in that office should be a moral leader.

59:49And that line should never be crossed. Because when you cross it, it says so much more about your integrity than it does about the people you're attacking.

59:58Lewis Howes:Yeah, yeah. If you had a microphone and everyone had headphones on, was listening to the end of this microphone, and you got a message to share to all the men in the world within 60 seconds or less, and all the men were gonna put on headphones and hear a message from you. It's very Orwellian, I like it. And you got one chance to say something to these men from all over the world, and they could all understand English and they understood you. You're taking care of all the logistics. All the logistics, they got it on. It's not fuzzy. There's no Wi-Fi signal. Everyone's got access to hearing your voice for 60 seconds.

1:00:37Lewis Howes:All the men and all the women are actually standing by listening as well. What would you say to all the men of the world in general?

1:00:49Golly. You know, I wouldn't want to screw that up. Let me think. Go ahead. Yeah. I think I would say that vulnerability is not weakness. It's about the willingness to show up and be seen when you can't control the outcome. And it is actually our greatest measure of courage.

1:01:18so show up in an authentic way and let us see your hearts because we know how lonely you actually are wow yeah men are lonely I mean it's it's it's really men are lonely it's really hard yeah um but I I would not I think I don't think I would say anything differently to women either. Because I think there is certainly, for women, the greatest shame trigger is do it all, do it perfectly, and never let them see you sweat, look perfect, work perfect. In all areas. In all areas. The workforce, the home. Yeah, be smoking hot and brilliant and this, but don't ever look like you're putting any effort toward it.

1:02:06It's so easy, right? It is. I don't understand why my sisters have not nailed that. But I think, so it's hard for women to be vulnerable because it's less than perfect. You know?

1:02:23Lewis Howes:You mean women aren't wearing masks? Yeah. Yeah. And it's terrible because then the two collide. And you see in a lot of partnerships, I mean, I've seen it so much in my research, this contract we have where I'll stay smoking hot and awesome. and, you know, money and provider shame is such a real thing for men. And, you know, you do this and this is our contract and we're both in straight jackets till we die. Yeah. And so, like... How do we remove those jackets? We just start getting real with each other. We just start being really honest. And we see each other. You know, we really see each other.

1:03:05Lewis Howes:Yeah. Wow.

1:03:10Lewis Howes:I've got a few minutes left. I'm going to be mindful of these questions. I know. Because I could ask you. Let's go now. Let's cut it. I could ask you. I could talk to you for hours.

1:03:23Lewis Howes:Is there anything you feel ashamed of still? Oh, I have moments for sure. Like, I will have moments of... But now I know. I mean, we can't ever get rid of shame. What we can do is develop resilience to shame. So when it happens and it washes over, that warm wash that makes you feel small and not enough, when that washes over me, rather than yelling at my kids or just decimating myself with hateful language, and like you're stupid or you're not, now when it washes over me, I'm like, okay, I'm in shame. Don't talk, text, or type. What happened? So there are still, I mean, I still have triggers around it.

1:04:05I still have triggers around it. I still think it's probably the same. Motherhood, trying to do everything and balance everything and be where I'm supposed to be. And that's still hard sometimes.

1:04:16Lewis Howes:What's the process that someone should take on when they feel shame, anger, rage? Well, shame I can really help you with is, first and foremost, talk to yourself like you talk to someone you love. So if something happens and you're overwhelmed with shame, the first thing you need to do is get back on your emotional feet. Don't talk, text, or type to anyone because one of the things we want to do is push that shit out on other people. I'm good at that. Yeah. I'm guilty of that. Yeah. No, yeah. So just get into a dark, quiet place and then talk to yourself like you talked to someone you love. Just be like, dude, it's okay.

1:04:51Like you screwed this up. What you said was super hurtful. You're going to have to circle back and clean that stuff up. But give yourself a break here, just like I would talk to Ellen or Charlie if they made a mistake. Then reach out and talk to someone about what you're feeling. Shame cannot survive being spoken. So if I call you and I'm like, oh, my God, Lewis, I'm in a shame shitstorm. You're not going to believe what happened. And you listen to me and you respond empathically or empathetically with something like, oh, my God, I've been there. Or, oh, God, I get it. I'm sorry. That sucks. Shame can't hold on because shame can't survive empathy.

1:05:27Lewis Howes:I 100 % agree with that. A quick example, for 25 years, I held on to the shame of being sexually abused by a man that I didn't know. And I was like, if anyone knew this about me, my life was over. That's how shameful I felt, embarrassed and abused I felt from the experience. and when I finally had the courage to share it, it took me a couple of years to share it over and over many, many times. I don't feel shameful. I can talk about it openly and freely without feeling embarrassed, without feeling weak, soft, vulnerable because I own the experience and it's not something I have to hold in and react through rage because I can just share it and I can communicate as opposed to hold into this.

1:06:15Lewis Howes:Yeah. And I think whenever I face anything I'm scared to talk about now, I just say, well, how can I talk about it? How can I journal? I like to journal first. Oh, that's huge. So no one can shame me, right? No one has to feel that. No, that's huge. Yeah. And then I start having conversations. And when we have ownership over that shame, I feel like it doesn't own us anymore. I mean, so that's a perfect example. First of all, it's devastating when that happens. It happens to boys. One in six. Yeah. And they think that's an underestimate. They think that that - No, one in six is what's known. Yeah.

1:06:49And they think it's probably double that because of our culture and inability of boys to speak safely, even to their own parents around it.

1:06:56Lewis Howes:I never told anyone. Right. My parents don't know. Right. So here's the example exactly. You talk about it now. So two choices. You own your story. You get to write the ending. You don't own the story. The story owns you. Yeah. So then you talk about it now. So shame can't hold on. But then people see and hear you talking about it, and it gives them permission to talk about it. That's why shame cannot hold on to being spoken. So your courage to talk about that deflates shame. It takes it out of the air. It's like filtering poison out of water because you've got the courage to speak up. I mean, and that's how it works.

1:07:37And that's how all of this works is that we own our story or it owns us.

1:07:44Lewis Howes:Final two questions. This is called The Three Truths. I ask everyone at the end of the interview, it's The Three Truths. You've written many books, all number one New York Times bestsellers. Let's imagine it's your last day many, many years from now. You get to write the story when it's your last day on your own terms, right? You've written every book you've ever wanted to write. You've said everything you've always wanted to say. You've done every video, interview, whatever it is, you've achieved anything you set out to do. But for whatever reason, it's all erased and gone. So no one has access to any of this information.

1:08:14Okay.

1:08:15Lewis Howes:And you're there with all the people you care about. You have a piece of paper and a pen and you get to write down three things you know to be true about everything you've experienced in life. This is all people would have of your message left behind. What would you say are the three truths for you? Steve, Ellen, and Charlie were my greatest true loves, for sure.

1:08:44After that, everything seems small.

1:08:49Love takes courage. Be brave. Let yourself be seen.

1:08:58And don't wait for the grownups to get there. That's the myth. We don't know what we're doing. We're just putting our best foot forward. So if you have an idea or an answer, go for it.

1:09:08Lewis Howes:Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. Yeah. Before I ask the final question, I want to make sure you guys go get the book. I'm scared for the final question. Cut. Let's go. Wrap it up. The final question's easy. But this is Braving the Wilderness, the Quest for True Belonging and the Courage to Stand Alone. Make sure you guys go get this book. It's going to be a game changer. Highly recommend it. I'll have it linked up everywhere on the site and below this video. Very powerful. You're an incredible writer. and I just know this is going to serve so many people who feel alone in the world of uncertainty.

1:09:43Lewis Howes:And I want to acknowledge you, Brene, for being an incredible gift to the world with all of your imperfections and the beautifulness that you have within you. I think it takes so much courage to share these things the way you've been doing them for years, decades. You've been opening up and talking about it and to bring it out to a public platform and continue to dive in deeper. I acknowledge you because the weight that it carries of listening to everyone else's pain, as I've started to open up about mine, I just feel the weight of everyone now sharing with me. I can only imagine the weight that you get to carry and are privileged to carry because of the work you're getting to do and the impact you have on so many people who are suffering, who feel like there is no hope, there is no way out, who are stuck in all areas of their life.

1:10:36Lewis Howes:You give people such inspiration and tools and education on how to transform their life. So I acknowledge you for all the work that you do. Oh, thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. This is the final question. That's amazing. You're welcome. It's my pleasure. Yeah. The final question is simple. It's what's your definition of greatness?

1:11:00to own your story and love yourself through that process. That's greatness to me.

1:11:06Lewis Howes:Appreciate you. Thank you very much. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

1:11:41Lewis Howes:I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I wanna remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

1:12:15We'll see you next time.

1:12:28Lewis Howes:years. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at Angie.com. Real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section of a resume, you might throw away the perfect hire. Skills First Hiring helps you see talent others miss, like more than 70 million stars, skilled through alternative routes. Let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage because hiring managers who start with skills are 60 % more likely to find a successful hire. Hire skills first. Learn why at tearthepaperceiling.org.

1:13:02Lewis Howes:Brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council.