Elizabeth Gilbert: How To Stop Manifesting TOXIC Love & ATTRACT Healthy Relationships

27:02And I was like, and none of them were my husband. Like none of them were the people I was married to. That was like between my marriages that I was bringing, you know, and he was like, yeah, I don't think I have ever had anybody bring in three different relationships and say, please make this work for me. And he said, I have to hand it to you though, Liz, they were all so different, the people. You were the same. Yeah. He's like, I really admired the fact that like, and I was like, yeah, because I was trying to find what is the formula, who do I have to connect with that this is going to work, that this great echoing God-sized hole within me, this deep unsolvable problem of never feeling like there's enough love.

27:43Is it you? Is it you? Is it you? Do I need someone older? Do I need someone younger? Do I need a man? Do I need a woman? Do I need someone who loves me more than I love them? Do I need someone who I love more than I... Do I need two people? Do I need an open marriage? Like I want to... And I say this with all love. I'm so proud of myself that I spent 35 uninterrupted years trying to solve that. Like trying to solve that and being like, why can't I make this work? very similar to an alcoholic who's like, well, maybe if I just don't drink hard liquor, maybe if I just have wine, maybe if I just have beer, maybe if I just drink on the weekends, maybe if I, you know, it's like, I'm trying to figure out how to have this thing not do what it always does, which is blow up in my face and leave me like flat on the bathroom floor wrecked.

28:28Depressed and sad and lonely. Suicidal, if not homicidal, right? And so it wasn't until So you're looking for people to be the solution, but it wasn't. What was the solution? The solution is befriending myself and finding a source, finding what I have always needed, which is a source of infinite, inexhaustible love. And that cannot come from another person. Because sometimes people have to get up and get a sandwich and go to work and like go to the DMV and like do other things besides pour love into me. You know what I mean? Like they have other things they need to be doing. They can't, even if they love me, they can't, like a person can't do that or they might die, you know, which happened or they, or like they might change or they might have another crisis in their life that they have to attend to.

29:25Right. And then I'm howling on the outside, like a seven-year-old, like who's got me, who's got me, where did mommy go? Where I safe? Why am I on this tundra of loneliness again? Right? So for me, it's about finding, finding a source that can keep up with my need and pour infinitely into me. That seems impossible on another person. It is impossible on another person. And listen, I'll save you all the trouble. I did the research. Like I went out there and found a lot of people to try to get that from, you know? It didn't work. And it works for a while, like all drugs. Six months or something. Yeah, it works till it doesn't.

30:05Like every other substance, every other drug, it works till it doesn't. And then you wake up on Tuesday morning and you're still you, you know, and you're still you and you're still lonely and you're still overwhelmed and you're still confused and you're still hungry, you know, because this thing can't be filled. So, and I also needed to find a community of people who understood me. and the first time well actually the second time because i went to a sex and love addicts room once because a friend 13th stepped me there like sent me there 12th stepped me there um and and was like i think you need this and i went in and i was like yeah these people are really sick and it's depressing and i feel bad for them and i'm going to be a spectator and then i'm going to leave and then i went out and found another person to blow my life up with and then i was like maybe I should go back.

30:53From the group? No, no, no. But it's just from the general population. And then I went back humbled. And the first time I really showed up in that room and said, hi, my name is Lizzie. I'm a sex and love addict, was the beginning of the end of a 50-year attempt to find somebody, anybody who would take that pain away. Oh, my gosh. And to have a whole bunch of people in the room who don't look like me, who aren't my age, who aren't from my background, be like, yeah, we super get it. You know, and to hear my story being told again and again and again through other people's mouths. I remember hearing this woman say, I took one look at that guy from across the bar and I was like, I would follow that man to hell.

31:38And then I did. You know, and I was like, okay, I know that story. Like I've been in that story. I've been in that story. I've been on all the sides of these stories. and sort of find a community of people who are like, we understand why you're like this, you know, and we'll be your family as you move through this. What are the main symptoms of a sex addict or a love addict then? There's different programs for sex addiction. There's different programs for love addiction. I identify as a sex and love addict. A lot of women don't want to use the word sex addict because it sounds gnarly and shameful.

32:09And it is gnarly, super gnarly. because you're sort of pimping yourself out to get to trade whatever you have to trade physically to try to get that love connection, right? It's like it's not pretty, but it's what I've done. It also means constantly objectifying yourself, objectifying other people. But if you just Google 12 characteristics of sex and love addicts, you know, when I heard those, I was like, oh, that's a 12 for 12. That's a hard identification with each and every one of these. Like I've done every single one of these things on the regular. But it essentially comes down to this idea that somebody else is going to be able to fix this on the inside of me.

32:53And returning to unhealthy relationships again and again. Abandoning your care by attaching to people who are unavailable. There's a whole list to them. Sure, sure. how do you then let's say you go through you you accept that you're a love addict right and maybe someone watching and listening is like maybe i have some of these tendencies right and i've heard you talk about in the beginning of this conversation about how you know there's this love that you're connecting with every single day and asking it what would you want of me what's what would you have me know what you have me know today yeah and you have this new relationship with love, but a lot of people feel undeserving of receiving love.

33:38So if you don't feel like you're deserving of having love or being loved or receiving it, how do you have a new relationship with it where you can let it into your life? For me, it's been about in the same way that those inner children and inner teenagers that we spoke about needed to gradually learn to trust me and needed to gradually learn to see that I do have them and I am prioritizing them and I'm not going to abandon them and I am here and I am going to say no and I am going to risk not pleasing people in order to make sure that they're okay. It's almost like I've had to develop, I'll just speak for myself because I think it's probably different for other people, and I now am going to introduce the word God.

34:24um i've had to have that same relationship build very slowly with the god of my own understanding of believing that i am being loved and not judged believing that i'm not in trouble um i've spent my entire life terrified of being in trouble like what did i do wrong i'm in trouble I'm dead now. Believing that I haven't done anything that has caused God to not love me and believing that I can turn to that source and be fed and be held and be guided. And I always say this, I always loved God. And I didn't even grow up in a religious family. Maybe That's why. Because I had my own independent feeling of a God presence when I was a kid that was very organic and natural.

35:21Like I loved the word God. I loved the whole idea. I loved everything about it. I didn't really know what it meant, but I loved it. I've always believed in God. I've always loved God. I have never trusted God. Really? Because that's a whole other layer. It's like, wait, I have to trust you? Because I mean, like many of us, because of things that happened to us when we were kids, we don't trust anybody. Or you just see bad things in the world and you say, how could this be? If God is all love, how do these bad things happen? You'll question that. Right. Exactly. Why do bad things happen to good people?

35:55Why did all these terrible things happen to me? Why is there injustice? I mean, we can get trapped forever in that. But I have found when I communicate with God, I've said this many times and I find it to be true. why is not a spiritual question and it does not bring a spiritual answer ever like i can shout why into the cosmos and i'm never gonna get an answer no one is but i can ask other questions like what do you want me to do and i will get an answer who do you want me to become i will get an answer who do you want me to be around like who are the people who you want me to be around what do you want me to do next how do you want me to comport myself through this i'll get answers to that if I ask God, but I won't get answers to why.

36:37I mean, I think that's just the general humility of knowing that my mind can't know. We're not allowed to know why. Sometimes you kind of get a glimpse later where you're like, oh, I see why. I see why that might've happened. I see why we couldn't have gotten here without that. But I even try to stay away from that. I try to stay out of the why. I have surrendered the why. That's funny. I still ask my mom why questions and she says she stopped answering why questions. Yeah. So I'm like, why'd you do this, mom? And she goes, I stopped answering your why questions. I'm not accepting your question.

37:12Ask me a different question. Yeah. Come back with a better question. Exactly. Sometimes God will say that to me. Come back with a better question. Interesting. What is the best thing you've heard from God over the last four years? There's a couple of things. One thing is, I love this. I hear this from God a lot. when I'm sort of unsure about what I'm supposed to do, because that's a thing that I can get really panicky about, like, what am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do? I will often hear God say, when I've got something for you to do, you'll be notified. Don't try to rush it or try to know right now.

37:51Like, for instance, I had a couple of years there where I didn't have any ideas for a book or creativity or anything to write. And every day in my journal, I would say, am I supposed to be writing something, you know? Am I supposed to be working on something? And that universal cosmic voice would say, when we've got something for you to do, you'll be notified. And then I would say, well, what am I supposed to do in the meantime? And the answer would come, hang out. Just be. Hang out. And I'm like, well, that's extremely uncomfortable. I would rather that you gave me an assignment. I'm a border collie.

38:19I do better with an assignment. Yeah. Like, I mean, but we'll let you know. That's one of my favorites. The other thing I've heard is actually very similar when I've said to God, am I supposed to be dating anybody? Am I supposed to be – now that I've gotten well, now that I've gotten emotional sobriety, now that I've been in 12-step recovery for sex and love addiction, now that I've learned how to take care of myself and been celibate for five years, which is the greatest gift I've ever given myself. Wow. And the first time since like way too young an age that somebody hasn't been like on me, you know, like it's been so important for me to like reclaim this body and just be like mine.

39:04Wow. Right? Yes. My body. This isn't like a tool for anyone else. This isn't a tool for manipulation. This is like hours, like to find that and to learn how to self-comfort, to learn how to regulate my own nervous system. Like so now that I've done all that, I'm like, am I supposed to be looking for somebody to be with? And my favorite thing that God has ever said to me is the response to that, which is LOL, no. Wow. Hard no, absolutely not. Like absolutely not. And I love that answer. and I trust that answer. And then God says, if I want you with somebody, I will let you know, the idea won't be yours.

39:46It'll be mine. I will let you know. I will let you know who it is. You don't have to go hunting. You don't have to go searching. I don't want you chasing anything. Again, I mean, to me, so much of what all sobriety is, is the end of chasing. Like you're not chasing a feeling anymore. You're not chasing a high. You're not chasing an escape. you're not chasing a person, you're not trying to replicate the way you felt once. Like that's a big thing for sex and love addicts. Like stop chasing a feeling. A feeling, right. It's a feeling you want to have. And all that feeling, if I can get it, I can get it met, but it just leads to craving because then I want more of it.

40:24Yeah, and sadness. And then I'm like, okay, now what do I have to do to get that, right? So God has been really clear with me. Like I don't want you chasing anybody. I don't want you chasing anything. You're so good right now. what's the big hurry to like why are you out there looking for ways to make your life unmanageable again like i can sleep through the night without medication i don't need to be on antidepressants anymore i'm not on anti-anxiety pills anymore my body is healthier my work i've like written three books in the last six years my friendships have bloomed all of my family relationships have changed due to these new radical boundaries like i'm prospering and god's like what's the hurry to tip the apple cart over again.

41:08That's fascinating. I, you know, when I decided, because it was a choice to get into a relationship with Martha, my fiance, and when we got into a relationship, I told her kind of like a lot of these things that we're talking about, where I was just like, listen, I've never made good decisions in previous relationships, and then I didn't have the courage to get out of them because I was afraid, and I didn't want to hurt someone, so I stayed in things that weren't good for me, and you know it was just never good and it doesn't mean they were bad people we just weren't the right people together and so i told her like i want to take our time if we're going to do this we're not going to sleep together you know which is not something i'd done in the past it was like kind of quick to rush to that and that was one of the best things i did for like the kids in me yeah was not sleeping with someone that i was dating but trying my best to get to know all the parts of her, her family life, her when she's happy, her when she's going through a challenge, you know, traveling together, all these different things as opposed to rushing into chemical bonding.

42:10Right. Because once the internal pharmacy gets activated, it's like, it's like in Midsummer Night's Dream when they, when they put like, you know, magic powder on the person who then falls in love with a donkey. It's like those hormones will make me fall in love with like a kitchen cabinet. Anything. I know. And as somebody with a really dysregulated nervous system, you know, with a process addiction, like, I mean, I experienced those hormones. It's estimated that people like us who have that experience those hormones at like 10 times the rate of other people. So like someone else might feel pleasant experiences with romance and love and connection and sex.

42:49I get wasted. You know, I get wasted and I shouldn't be operating heavy machinery. I shouldn't be making decisions about my bank account. I shouldn't be moved. Like I'm, I go insane. Right. So it's really important. Like what you've done is a really gracious thing for both of you actually. Yeah, of course. To slow that entire process down and try not to go chemical before you find intimacy. Exactly. And I remember like, you know, unless we're only three and a half years into this. So it's like, we've got a long time ahead with our relationship with hopefully it's all good and it's all like smooth, but there's going to be challenge.

43:23that we have to face. But I wanted to set myself up for the most harmony possible. Knowing that life is going to throw challenges at us individually and together, how can we create a relationship of harmony and peace where we both have nervous systems that are calm? Right. Nervous systems that are okay, independent of each other, and stronger together, hopefully. But I'm not reliant on her for my happiness, which I think I never had before. Yeah. I was always reliant on the other people to like me or accept me and people pleasing them. and it feels so freeing to experience for the first time after 20 years of painful relationships, um, peace and freedom in a relationship.

44:03Like I didn't even, I didn't think it was possible. I didn't know it was possible. And it feels amazing to, at least up in this point, have experienced this for a number of years. So I'm very grateful for that. I'm so happy for you. Thank you. Thank you. But I remember thinking to myself, I don't need to be in a relationship. Like I'm not going to jump in a relationship until I feel that consistently from a dating phase without sexual intimacy. And that was hard. I mean, I'm like, you know, my young guy, it's like, it's hard to say no to those things. But by creating that boundary for me, it's like I built respect for myself and about trust within my nervous system and the parts of me.

44:41And it has allowed me to trust myself in the relationship more than ever before. Oh, it's wonderful. And I feel like it sounds like that's what you've been doing the last five years is reclaiming trust within yourself that you're not going to abandon yourself. And when you do get into another relationship, you're not going to abandon or people-please who you are. And it doesn't mean you're going to be avoidant either. You're going to be securely connected to the person because you're securely connected to you, is what it sounds like you're building. That's the thing. And also, for me, as somebody who's now become God-centered instead of self-centered, and And my wants, my wants have driven me over cliffs many times.

45:21My wants, my needs, my desires, my ideas. Your feelings, yeah, yeah. My big ideas. Like I get some big ideas and then it's like cut to six months later and it's like, oh my God, what did you just do to your life? You just drove to another brick wall. So for me, I think you mentioned the word manifesting very early in this conversation and I'm a good manifester. You're a good manifester too. Like we, you know, we're like, we're disciplined, we're resolved. Yes. You know, we vision board our way into like, you know, we're like, I'm going to get this. I'm going to make this. I'm going to get this many, you know, like I'm less in the realm of romantic and intimate connection.

45:58I've manifested, like I've gotten what I wanted. I've gotten who I wanted at times. And it's almost killed me. Yeah, it didn't work. Right? So it's not, I'm not that interested anymore in the question of what do I want? but I'm really interested in the question of like what's God's will for my life. Man, I love this. And how can I live in alignment with that? I love this. And so I don't even worry about like will I ever be with someone again. It's not up to me. I don't really care. Like I trust when God says you'll be notified if that's supposed to happen. Like great, I don't have to think about it.

46:33Wow. When did you bring God in your life? Really, I mean, really seriously when I came into 12-step recovery. Which was five years ago, five and a half years ago. Is God in 12-step recovery or is it more? Oh, yeah. I mean, higher power is. It's a spiritual program because addiction is a spiritual sickness. And it's a deep spiritual emptiness. and addicts like me are people who have such a profound emptiness that we will use anything or anybody to fill it. And you don't have God in your life as like the faith or the trust or the knowingness of it, then you find everything else to be your God, I guess, or to fill that void.

47:18I've heard addiction referred to as false worship. It's like, I'm going to worship this thing. I'm going to worship this substance. I'm going to worship this person. I'm going to worship money. I'm going to worship success. I'm going to worship food. I'm going to worship cigarettes. You know, like it's, it's, it's, there's this line in the, I mean, there's a line in the Bible about false idols, about not worshiping false idols. And it says that people who worship false idols and they describe them as like, you know, wooden, like kind of wooden creatures with lifeless eyes. It's like what sort of what an idol is.

47:52Like you worship that and then you become that. You become sort of wooden and lifeless. And I mean, I'm not a fundamentalist Bible reader, but I think that's a really accurate description of what addicts become. You become sort of wooden and lifeless. And the God-sized hole is what it's referred to can only be filled with God. Wow. Do you feel a lot more peace now with God in your life? And yeah, I mean, it is my life, you know. And I had this great experience in step three, which is made a decision to turn our will and our life over to the God of our own understanding. The beautiful, generous thing about that language is the God of your own understanding.

48:39You know, it doesn't necessarily mean the God that you were raised with or threatened with. and I had a sponsor who said to me, write down what you're looking for in a God. Nobody will ever surrender their life over to a God who is forced upon them. So write down the qualities that a deity would have to have for you to surrender your life completely, happily over to them. And I was like, you get to do that? And she's like, of course you get to do that because why would a loving God not appear in whatever form you need? Right? Like, of course. And it was such a fun assignment because I was like, the very first thing was like, my God has to have a sense of humor.

49:23My God has to have a sense of humor and think that I'm adorable and funny and that my failures are adorable and funny. I can't have a judgmental God. I can't have a punishing God. I have to have an incredibly patient God. I have to have a God who doesn't have anywhere better to be than sitting with me in the middle of the night, present and comforting. Like I need a God who doesn't have office hours. I need a God who doesn't stand on ceremony and need me to prostate in a certain particular way. I don't want, I can't have an insecure God. Like I can't have a God who's like, if you don't like pray to me in this certain way, I'm not going to feel right.

50:00You know, like I need to have like an abundant God, a generous God. a loving God who knows me and who likes me. I wish I could remember who said this, but somebody said that the true feeling of being one with God is relaxing completely in the presence of somebody who you know is deeply fond of you. And if people had been taught that in childhood, that that's what God presence feels like, relaxing completely in the presence of somebody who you know is very fond of you yeah not being afraid constantly oh my god instead of what james joyce called the hangman god you know um the judge the executioner you know this is like like of course i created you i love you you know like i made you the way you are this is fascinating how many how many relationships do you feel like you've been in in the past like intimate relationships whether it be like dating or sexual or oh like 40 40 okay you know like how many 45 maybe 45 i'm trying to remember because i had to inventory it when i was it's part of like the sex and love addict recovery so 40 45 intimate loving relationships sure sexual relationship 45 deeply intimate relationships how many how many of these relationships i love myself that's good yeah no judgment here i mean no i don't feel it how um how many of the relationships you've been in had god at the core of the center none how many are we gonna in the future do you feel like god will be in the relationship in some way?

51:43If God's not in the relationship, it's not a relationship. Wow. You know, and I heard a prayer recently in one of the 12-step rooms, and this is about every relationship, you know, not just sexual and intimate, but somebody said, Dear God, please only bring me relationships where you can be first and I can be me. Oh, man, that's good. Say that one more time. Dear God, please only bring me relationships where you can be first and I can be me. Man, that gives me the chills. I know. Isn't that beautiful? Imagine every relationship in your life like that. Friends, family, intimate relationships. Yeah.

52:25That's a beautiful life. Isn't it? With every relationship like that. Because then you're not feeling judged or you don't have to people please. You don't have to impress. Obviously, you've got to create boundaries and you have to communicate and you have to stand up for yourself, but you don't have to worry about what happens when God is at the center. God is going to have your back no matter what. And their back. Yeah. Right? I mean, to know that they also have their own higher power. Of course. Right? I mean, I got super high off of becoming other people's higher power as much as I got super high off making somebody my higher power.

52:57Yes. Right? It's like, oh, let me be the thing you worship. Right? Like that's a rush. Big rush. Right? Until you crash. until you get de-pedestalized and then you don't even want to be in the room when that happens i mean like that's that's such a terrible crash for everybody the terrible disappointment of that like i like i say this to my sponsees a lot like if they idealize me at all you know i'm like okay i just want to point out that like that language sounds a little bit idealizing please don't do that to me or you. Because when you inevitably discover that I am not this ideal, I don't even want to be in the room when that statue comes crashing.

53:40Right? Like that's going to be really bad for both of us. So like, just don't, don't do that. Like, let's not do that. Wow. This is fascinating. So, I mean, can you share what it was like being in a relationship with someone that then you're, you're so deeply in love with or you, or whatever you feel like is love at that time. I don't know if you look back and if you feel like that's real love or it's love addiction, we can get into that later. But you're deep in a relationship. You've poured your heart into someone, your life into someone that then passes away. Can you share what that experience was like?

54:14Because I can't even imagine. But how did you navigate that? And what was the lesson that opened up for you once you got to reflect on it? So yeah, you knew Raya. And so Rhea was my best friend for many, many years while I was married to somebody else. And while I was married to somebody else, I fell in love with my best friend. And slowly, over many, many, many years, and I won't get into the reasons why. Actually, I will. I mean, the primary reason was over time, she became the only person in the world who, when I was with her, I felt completely safe. and I had never felt safe in the world. And she was so good and strong at handling people and dealing like...

55:00I had this deep fear of people's insanity and Raya could just handle it. She kind of protected you. Yeah. I kind of walked into every room behind her because I was like, whatever goes down, like she's got it. Like she's got it. She's not afraid of anybody. She'll say the thing that needs to be said. She'll set the boundary that needs to be set. So I was like a little kid kind of behind her. And that feeling that she could provide for me of security was so beautiful. Then she was diagnosed with terminal pancreatic and liver cancer and given six months to live. And at that point, it was no longer possible for me to continue to pretend that I wasn't in love with her.

55:40And I came to my then husband and said, I'm in love with Ray. And he was like, we've always been in love with Ray. I mean, he knew me so well. He was like, you've been in love with Ray for so long, honey. And how long were you guys married for? 12 years. 12 years, yeah. He was like, you need to go be with her. Wow. So he kind of gave you that blessing. Yeah. He wasn't upset. He wasn't mad. He wasn't... She was very upset, you know, but like, and hurt, you know, but like... And hurt, but not you? No, and hurt, you know, but also he was a wise soul. And, you know, he wasn't in an argument against reality.

56:17And it was true. I had to go and be with her. Were you not upset that he wasn't like fighting for you guys or saying like, this is not okay? No, I was deeply moved by his compassion and his courage. It's also hard if someone's like essentially saying, I don't love you this way anymore. I love this other person. It's hard for someone to be like, please love me. You know, he probably had some self-respect to say he had way too much self-respect that's painful and hurtful yeah he had way too much dignity to get in a begging contest you to love me back that's not gonna work no so he was like he yeah he let it go yeah and i'm so grateful for that and um i have great respect for him and and then i went to go be with her and we had six months to be together and she really only had six months she ended up having a year and a half okay yeah but they had told her she would have six months.

57:12And we both knew that our time together was going to be very short. There was something incredibly intoxicating about that. Every day is a rush. I mean, if you live at the extreme levels of emotion that I've always lived, I mean, this is high. It's like, okay, there are no consequences. There are no tomorrows. Let's do whatever we want. Let's spend all our money. I always say Raya was the one who had been given six months to live, but I acted like I also had been given six months to live. I was like, I don't give a shit about anything that happens in the future. Like ride or die. Let's just like blaze out right to the end.

57:49There's no reason to hold back on anything. I mean, it was incredibly exciting in a way and, and sort of thrilling. We're like, let's make art. Let's go on all these bucket, like bucket list trips. Let's eat everything we want to eat. Let's blow off everybody we don't about. Like let's, you know, like there was something that was really wild about it. And that wildness was pretty out of control and very exciting and wasn't... How can I word this? Because I mean, it was perfect how it turned out because it had to go that way. But Rhea was a recovered heroin and cocaine addict who had been in recovery for 12 years and then had decided much to her own danger and detriment that she wasn't an addict anymore and left the rooms of recovery.

58:44She was like, I'm cured. And we know that addiction can't be cured. Lifelong journey. And that addiction never ends. It only waits. Waits till you give in. It just waits. It just waits for its moment. It just waits. And so she just got kind of full of herself and was like, you know, I beat this thing. I'm going to start drinking again. I'm going to do other kinds of drugs. And then once she got really deep in the pain of the cancer and the fear of the cancer, she went fully back to being an opioid and cocaine addict. Oh, man. That's tough. And as one of her relatives said, I wish Rhea was a nicer drug addict.

59:25Oh, man. She was not a particularly nice drug addict. Wow. She mean to you too? vicious um and then just the darkness arose and so our sort of like let's just ride or die into the sunset love story was not turned into sit and nancy and i mean it was just ugly it just got very ugly and and very destructive and and i was lost in my codependency and my love addiction and my people pleasing and like here i'll go take tens of thousands of dollars out of my bank account so you can buy all the cocaine you need because I love you. Like just so degraded. Like whatever love we had became very degraded. But what I want to make clear and what I learned from that, we did that together.

1:00:09Yeah. You know, and that's what codependency does. It's like this isn't a story about how like somebody did a bad thing to me. This is a story about how two people who were unhealed addicts came together and lost their minds. Wow. And God let her live long enough for that to happen. Because if she had died right away during the hot, blazing, beautiful, exotic, erotic, like let's like burn out together in like a comet shooting through earth, I'd be like, that was the greatest love story ever told. And God was like, I'm going to let her live another year and I'm going to let you guys go on this other journey that you were not expecting.

1:00:51Yeah. And so it was brutal. So to answer your question, what is it like to have the person you love the most in the world die? I lost her before she died. I lost her to drug addiction, which actually made cancer look like a day at the beach. And I lost myself in that before she died. So I lost both of us. I lost me and I lost her. um and so the it's like the death was almost an afterthought to the great loss of both of us to our own unhealed trauma what's the biggest lesson you learned from that afterwards like a year or two later when you were able to reflect and have space took a little more than a year a year later i was like let me find someone else to do this with you know like because i was not rush.

1:01:46It was, you know, like, let me, who can I fill, who can I replace her with? I guess now, if you're looking back, if you could have a, you know, what's the biggest lesson now? And also two, two questions, sorry. What, if you could give wisdom to yourself before choosing to get into a relationship and just give yourself some wisdom to that younger you, what would you have said? Nothing she would have been able to hear. I understand. But if you, you know, so it's more how I would speak to myself now. Mm-hmm.

1:02:19so the way I felt at the end of that relationship was so far away from myself. and I had abandoned myself so completely into that story. And what that ends up doing only always is making you feel like you've been abandoned. So for a long time, the pain I had was an anger and a pain of like, she abandoned me. Like she chose cocaine and opioids over me. We had this very short period of time together and she chose to go back to her drug rather than being present to me. She took herself away from me and she left me in the cold. I don't see it that way now. That's good. I see somebody who was in excruciating existential and physical pain and who turned to the thing that had always taken their pain away.

1:03:16And the only thing that had ever taken her pain away at that level was opioids and cocaine. and it's like that's what she needed to do i mean i remember reya telling me back when she was sober and i always think about this with addicts she said i needed every gram of heroin i ever took or i would not have survived the world i was in so much pain like people who drink need every drop of alcohol they ever imbibed or they were not going to make it i needed every one of those 45 deeply intimate partners yeah loving partners or relationships or i wasn't i would not have made it Like I was in so much pain, I would not have made it, right?

1:03:54So I don't see somebody who abandoned me. I see somebody who is trying not to be in pain. And I also was trying not to be in pain. Of course. And I love something. I always refer to Byron Katie. I know you love her too. Yeah, she's great. But I love something she says, adults cannot be abandoned. Only children can be abandoned. Adults can only abandon themselves. helps. So anytime as an adult that I feel abandoned, I have abandoned myself. And so the lesson coming out of that, well, first of all, the lesson is I'm a love addict and I need a program and I need a fellowship and I need a higher power and I need a sponsor and I need a sisterhood in my recovery program and I need a daily spiritual practice.

1:04:40And I need that to be, they always say in other rooms of sobriety. Anything you put before your sobriety, you'll lose. So I need staying emotionally sober to be the single most important thing in my life. Like that's my job. Everything else, being a writer is a part-time job. Like staying emotionally sober within a community and a fellowship of people who help keep me emotionally sober is my full-time job. And that's going to be my full-time job for the rest of my life. That's my public service and it's my service to myself. That's interesting. I interviewed a brain surgeon who'd done a thousand brain surgeries and he also has a PhD in neuroscience.

1:05:15So he studies the mind and the matter and the brain. And I was like, what's the number one skill that every human being should learn to master that'll help them forever? He said emotional regulation. And it sounds like learning how to regulate emotions and connect it to a higher power and making that the forefront of your life will help you in almost every situation as opposed to reaching for substances or numbing addictions to help you fill a void that you might have inside of you. Yeah. Do you feel like, did Rhea have God in her life when she met you? Yeah. When I met her, she was like deep in her recovery.

1:05:56But she and I and every other addict in the world have very powerful egos. And Rhea had a particularly strong sense of her own amazingness. and it was extremely convincing because she actually was really amazing and she was really powerful and she was really charismatic and dynamic and you know the first person we fool as addicts is ourselves um and so she had this front of like mightiness and she kind of was the alpha predator in every room she walked into i mean i loved that about her and she loved that about her. But that's a kind of fragile landscape upon which to build your home is your own awesomeness.

1:06:40And God will humble you pretty quickly. Pretty quick. Pretty quick. And so she kind of replaced God with Rhea. And I replaced God with Rhea. And I needed a God in human form, and I made Rhea into my God. And she must have needed an acolyte because she took me on as her like worshiper. And for a while that worked and we both got really high off it. And then it did what, what all, what all drugs did stopped working. I'm sure you've had many, well, I don't want to assume, but I like to think that you probably had many writing sessions where you've reflected on her and your time with her. Um, maybe you've had conversations with her or not spiritually, but what if you're willing to share would you say to her now if she's listening we're so good babe we're so good you know like man we went for a ride together and and we're so good you know like that's the thing like underneath all the dysfunction there was this real friendship and this real love and martha back always says that true love always liberates the beloved it's the only thing that true love wants is for the beloved to be free for everybody to be free like our souls unhindered by ego only want one thing for ourselves and each other and that is liberation yeah it's the only thing we want you know and and if i could be said to want anything for Rhea seven years after she's dead because relationships don't end when people die.

1:08:21We've had a lot, we had a lot of healing to do after she died. Like including some conversations where I was like, you don't get to just float off into the ether and like become music. We have some to work out. I'm still suffering here. I'm still here. Like, you know, like we have some stuff to work out and like, we've worked it out. Like we've worked it out in various ways. But if I could be said to want anything for Rhea, it's that she'd be free. You know, that death actually be a liberation, that she be free, that she not have to stick around and take care of me. And that something that I've heard her say to me recently when I feel her is like, I know you want me to say that I'm always here for you, but you actually don't need me.

1:09:01And that's great news. You know, like I used to need you to need me, but she used to say to me, I'm not going to die till I see you standing on your own feet in every situation in your life. and like she wanted like her higher self really wanted that for me as much as her codependent self wanted me to worship her her her higher self wanted i just want you to be free the ego is loud very deafening i want you to be free but i also want you to worship me and i want you to not replace me and i want you to never let you know and it's all that Never leave me. Right? But like the true unfettered free soul only wants everybody to be free.

1:09:45What else could it want? Yeah. You know? What do you feel like is the biggest lesson you need to learn over the next decade of your life? How to not throw it all away. Throw what away? My life. I'm always looking, my inner addict is always looking for an opportunity to throw myself away. I want to throw away my money to somebody. I want to throw away my time. I want to throw away my creativity. I want to put somebody else at the center of my life. You know, I've heard it said in the codependent recovery rooms, you know, codependency is like the other person first, you second, God last. Wow. And recovery is God first, me second, the other person gets whatever's left over.

1:10:36It doesn't mean they're last. It just means that whole paradigm of what we call romantic love, when we're obsessed and infatuated with somebody and we want to hear them say, you are the center of my life. You are my everything. It actually turns out to not actually be that healthy. Toxic. You know, it's interesting before I forget, because I'm glad you said that, because when I entered my relationship with Martha, my fiance, after a few months of us dating and not being exclusively committed to each other, she asked me a question. I've shared this before on my show, but she asked me a question.

1:11:20It's the old, what are your priorities in life question that every girl, I feel like, asks a boy at some point, like, what are your priorities in life? What do you really want? And I remember thinking, this might be our last day hanging out because I'm going to tell her the truth and she's not going to like it. Because everyone I've talked to in the past didn't like it. They either screamed or got sad or cried or emotional. And then I kind of like gave in because I wanted the people please. You're like, oh, never mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I said, are you sure you want me to tell you the truth?

1:11:49Right. Because in the beginning of the relationship, when we first started hanging out, I made a promise to myself that I'm going to tell the truth about everything. like past, visions for the future, like all the parts of me want to tell you the truth. Things I'm working on, things I'm not proud of, things I'm ashamed of, all of it, right? And if you ask me the question, I'm going to tell you the answer. And I'm not going to sugarcoat anything and you can either take it or leave it. You may not like it, but you get to either accept it or not. And so she said, what are your priorities in life?

1:12:18And I said, I don't know if we're going to be, you know, hanging out together after this. Are you sure you really want the truth she said yes i get okay because no one's been able to accept it but i'm gonna tell you and i said you'll never be my number one priority and it's just saying it even now it's like have a reaction to it because i'm like am i gonna mess it hurts someone when i say this but um i said you're gonna be my number one priority i can't even look at a woman in the face and say it i feel like i'm gonna scream that how dare you not put me first yeah yeah yeah strikes and like the gods of romantic comedies come and like kill you.

1:12:52But I was like, you'll never be number one priority for me. And no woman wants to hear that from a man they're dating. They just don't want to hear that. Most women, I should say, right? They don't want to hear that. And she's like, okay. I go, but let me finish. And I go, you'll not be my number two priority. It gets worse. And I go, number one is to be number one or number two. I said, my number one priority in life is my health, my overall health. Because if I'm not emotionally, spiritually, physically healthy, I'm not going to be good for my number two priority, which is my mission from God, is what I feel called to do on this earth for this season of life or every season of life, whatever that is.

1:13:32In this season, I feel called to impact a lot of people with my message, with my content, with what I'm creating in the world. And if I'm not able to fully pursue my mission that I feel called by God to do, that's inside of me speaking to me, I'm going to be very unhappy. I'm going to be resentful. I'm going to be frustrated. And I'm not going to be a great partner. I'm just not. I'm going to be a shell of myself, limited and really pissed off at myself, at you, at God, whatever it is, the situation. And so number two needs to be my mission and my ability to serve. That means you've got to be respecting of my time when I need to go to the gym and take care of my health or if I need to go to therapy, like whatever it is in my work, you got to be respecting of that time.

1:14:18The third priority would be my relationship with you. You know, if we're together, it'll be my relationship and then my marriage and my family relationships. And I tell you what though, if you fully accept that, where my health is my priority, and I want this for you too, but my health is my priority, number one, spiritual, physical emotional my mission by god is number two you're gonna feel like the number one priority because i'm gonna give you all of me like when i'm with you i'm present you know i'm gonna be thinking about you i'm gonna be speaking about you i'm gonna be building for us and it's not like i'm gonna neglect you and never be around like you're gonna feel my presence my energy my love because i'm gonna miss so much gratitude for you so much appreciation every night i'm gonna speak gratitude into your soul.

1:15:05And every night I tell her what I'm grateful for and it's her and other things as well. But she feels those things. And if you ask her today, do you feel like you're a third priority? She's going to say, no, I feel like he puts me at the center. And I think it took me a while to be able to say that confidently and not be worried about like losing someone, but really owning that truth. And it's not easy to say, like you would never say this in a rom-com. And the funny thing is she's, you know, done 40 romantic comedies. She's a big actress in Mexico and, you know, very famous in Mexico. She was the queen of romantic comedies.

1:15:40So she had to unlearn this herself in her own life. But it's what's allowed for peace and harmony in the relationship. And, you know, again, I say this as a caveat, we're not married, we don't have kids yet. So everyone's always like, well, wait till you have kids and you're married. But I'm like, I don't know. Why do people want to instantly knock you off? I don't know. people want to say that it's going to get worse because they're like when you have but i'm like i'm building a foundation you're building something that when you introduce the children it'll be a beautiful home hopefully yeah that's the goal and we started the relationship in therapy because i said i don't want to enter a committed relationship unless just keep a therapist on on you know 100 percent yeah and we you know not because there was something wrong because i wanted to create agreements from the beginning yeah and i want to make sure we're aligned with our values.

1:16:25Because every relationship I had before ended in therapy. When there was too much stress, it was gone. And it was too much. I want to start it and then end it quickly if we're not meant for each other. And try to create alignment and agreements. That's wonderful. And so again, it doesn't mean it's like this perfect thing, but I feel harmonious consistently. It's a very good start and it's a very good foundation. Great foundation, yes. I'm very grateful for that. And you said it took years to be able to say that, but it also took you years to find the person who could hear it who could receive it yeah and not take offense to it yeah and this is a very i think that would make me feel incredibly secure if somebody said that why so i said liz you're not gonna be my number one priority and you're not gonna be number two well if they just said that right right they give you context they were like my car is my number one priority no but if they said listen i want to be the best version of me my health i want it to be as the center right or if they said god first introduction of a higher power that would make me feel very secure.

1:17:22You know, I think like one of the questions that I've heard people say is a really good question to ask somebody when you're in relationship is like, what do you turn to when you're shattered? Like, what do you turn to? And before it used to be what people or drugs or alcohol, whatever it is. Like, what do you do to come, like, what do you do when you're, when you're broken? Where do you go? It's a really important question because you're going to get shattered. Great question. You're going to get shattered. Like life is going to, life is in session or school is happening. Like the curriculum is hard and there are going to be things that happen.

1:17:56So like, I want to know, is it me you're going to turn to? Cause then I'm probably going to get shattered with you. Right. Are you going to turn like, what do you, what do you turn to? Do you isolate? Do you go to rage? Do you, you know, do you go to God? Do you go inward? Do you try to work harder and achieve more and gather more stuff? Like what is it? Yeah, that's really interesting. And I haven't asked Martha that, but I think innately because I've seen her, the thing that makes me feel really safe with her in this relationship is something that she does really smart. I think, at least for my personality type, she doesn't bring every challenge or problem to me right away.

1:18:36She's got her mom, her sister, her girlfriends, her therapist. She's got a community of like women or her father. She's got a community of people that she'll also speak with and not put everything on me right away. Sometimes she'll come to me right away. But a lot of times if she's feeling something, she'll talk with a girlfriend first. That usually like, okay, I feel good. Or she'll talk to her sister or her mom or her therapist. And then she'll bring it to me. It's a good sign that she's a person who has a community. It's really nice. Because one of the things that love addicts get high on is meeting somebody who's got no one and becoming their everything.

1:19:12Or having them get rid of all their friends. Yeah. Or isolating them away from all that. Like, I will become your world, right? It's a really wonderful thing. I also have heard it said, and this is a thing that I think is really good for women to hear, everything that I ever thought I had to get from one man, I now know that I can only get from a community of women. You can't expect it with one person. It's what Esther Perel says. We expect our romantic relationships to give us everything a community used to give us. it's impossible how can you put that on someone or expect that from yourself from that person it's exhausting exhausting exhausting and it's going to leave you hungry and angry like angry hangry it's going to make you hangry emotionally hangry wow this has been really beautiful I'm going to ask a few more questions and we'll wrap things up what is love speaking to you right now take a break i've been working really hard i mean i i know how to work hard and i've been working hard my whole life but that's what i've been hearing is plan a really big break like a big pause um i had a chest infection recently that lasted for almost eight weeks and every year recently I've been getting like a bad chest infection and a friend of mine who's a great healer was like, did you get quiet and ask your lungs what they need?

1:20:45You know? And when I got quiet and asked my lungs what they need, they said, we need you. Like we need you. Like you've been spreading yourself a little too thin. Um, and, and so I've been learning how to ask for support and help in ways that I've never done before. Like, um, okay, this is such a dumb this is such a dumb ACA thing to be proud of, but like, I have been crowingly proud for years that I don't have a personal assistant, like crowingly proud. You know, like when people write to me and they're like, can your team get to us? I'm like, I am my team. You know, like I don't have a team.

1:21:25I don't need a team. I don't have a PA. Like I do, I do speaking events and they're like, we'll give you two business class tickets for you and your assistant. I'm I'm like, I can carry my own suitcase. I can book my own hotel room. I don't need somebody to get me coffee. I don't need any help. Like, I don't need any help. Like, this is the flip side of the codependency and the addiction to I need you to save me is I don't need anybody. Wow. Right? Like, I don't need anybody. Streams. Total extremes. Like, you know, and that comes from a way of being raised in a system where you better not need anybody.

1:22:00Like, because they're just going to tell you to take care of yourself, right? So it's like this huge pride that like I don't need anybody. And just very recently I was like, I'm 55. I think I've proven, like I've proven that I don't need anybody. Now I think I need some help. It would be nice. And like I didn't even know how to use an assist. Like I don't even know how to ask for that. But my friend Suleika Jawad who wrote Between Two Kingdoms and is so extraordinary actually helped me find somebody. and then she was like i was like i don't know how to have it like i also like what do i how do i like i don't know you know and she was like write down every single thing you have to do this week and then ask her to do those don't do it yourself and i was like like go to the go to the post office you can have somebody do that for you so it's just been this new learning of like can you go pick this thing up for me?

1:22:56It's crazy. Like I've never, I've never done that. And it's crazy for me to have been moving through the world at the level that I've been moving through the world and not have it. It's, it's insane. But like, it's such a, it's such a prideful, like I can do everything myself. I can carry it all on my own shoulders. It's ridiculous. So I'm looking for more places where I can ask other people to help me. That's good. That's good. Um, rather than proving that I'm an Olympian. How can I help you? Oh, Lewis, come on Letters from Love. I'm going to. Yes. Yeah. I'm excited. Yeah. Come on Letters from Love.

1:23:34And the reason, and it's actually not just helping me. So I do this project with my beloved friend, Margaret Cordy, and we're not going to embarrass her by telling everybody that she's in the room. But she's in the room. And Margaret and I've been friends since college and we created this whole Substack thing together. And, you know, every week we ask a special guest to come on and take the risk because it's an incredibly vulnerable thing for people to do to dare to take this like thought exercise, spiritual exercise, trauma exercise of asking unconditional love, what would you have me know? Yeah.

1:24:12And it hasn't necessarily been easy to find men who will do it. Oh, I'm in. And like that's why you're so great is because you actually – like there's been a number of men who we've asked to do it and they're like, I don't feel safe or comfortable doing it. They said no? Yeah. Or they just said, I'm not ready for this or – They said no. And one that I found really interesting was he said something – I don't want to out him. He's somebody who I love so much. But he was like, I feel like I already know what unconditional love would say to me. unconditional love would say to me like you're you're lovable just the way you are and i don't want to hear that because i'm afraid it'll take away my motivation to be better and um and and i was like who hurt you sweetie why do you think that you can't be unconditionally loved and also still strive to be better pursue things in fact maybe knowing that you are loved is the like the soft landing place that you can live in and from there like you can you can it's a place you can go back to to rest those letters that i write to myself from love are my home yes you know i go out there in the world and i strive and i try and i you know like i work so hard on myself and i work so hard on my work and i and i try to be a really good person and i try to serve the world and like i work so hard and then i come home to these letters where love says like my beloved just come come home and rest yeah you know that's interesting that that person said that to you because i think a lot of a lot of people not just men but a lot of people can understand that feeling of like well if i love and accept myself do i just give up i'm not driven anymore right and i'm not that's going to take my edge off from me i won't be as competitive or driven to succeed and then I'll get complacent.

1:26:05And I can relate to that because for most of my life I was driven to prove people wrong or to prove people that I wasn't what they thought I was when I was younger or something, to prove the bullies wrong or whatever it might be. And I'm going to get bigger, faster, stronger, more successful to prove you wrong. That did nothing good for me. It helped me achieve, but it didn't make me feel better once I did, maybe for a day, but then I was almost angrier. I was like, why am I not feeling better? I need a bigger goal to go conquer. It's like, I don't know if you can relate to that. 100%. And I think learning to, this has worked for me, learning to be on the healing journey and say, okay, I feel more peace than ever.

1:26:50And because I have energy, it's more sustainable. It's more renewable, it doesn't burn out as quickly when I'm driven by like anger and like pride and proving people wrong. Yeah. I feel like I can serve at deeper levels and I feel like I can, because I'm doing it out of love and collaboration, not competition and proving God right versus proving others wrong. Proving God right. I love that. You know what I mean? It's like, okay, of course I have a mission to get up for today. And like, of course I'm going to go the extra model. Of course, I'm going to serve bigger and better however I can. Of course, I'm going to endure what I need to endure in this season.

1:27:29And I'm going to go home and rest. And I'm going to listen to my chest when it's telling me, you need to take two weeks off, or you need to take two years off, or two months off, whatever it is. And you need to slow down. And I think it's being able to listen at all times of what you need. It's like, is now the time to push or is now the time to like rest. Right. And it sounds like you're in that season of listening and needing to rest or do something else. Yeah. A little less. What is that? How can I support you in staying accountable for whatever that looks like for you? Oh, God. What does that look like for you to rest or to do less?

1:28:08You know what? I'm going to send you, because you're my friend, I'm going to send you the dates that I have already set aside. Perfect. In the year of our Lord, 2025, when I'm going to take a six-month sabbatical. Let's go. And I'm not going to do any teaching. I'm not going to do any speaking events. I'll keep the Letters from Love going because that's actually my spiritual space. I'm not going to write. I'm not going to start a new book. I'm going to stop. Perfect. And I'm going to send you those dates. You promise? Absolutely. Okay, good. I'm going to hold you accountable. I love that. Yes.

1:28:44That's such a great question. I love asking like, how can I serve this aspiration? Yeah, yeah. I'm going to take six months and I'm going to not produce, achieve, aspire. That's great. Yeah. That's greatness for me in this season of your life. I'm so happy that you're doing that because I'm grateful you're doing this because I know when you feel kind of stretched thin and committing to something like this last minute, I appreciate you coming on here. I think it's going to serve and help a lot of people. So hopefully this is energy giving. And not stretching you. You are a banquet of a human being.

1:29:19Thank you. And I always come away from being with you feeling fed and nourished and seen. And this did not take energy. This gave energy. I'm glad. I'm glad. We're here to serve people together. So I'm grateful for you. And I'll wrap it with this. I want to acknowledge you, Liz, for the journey you've been on. Because I think people have seen the side of you for a long time of like your success, right? of like Eat, Pray, Love and all the millions of copies of books and like Master Speaker and all the success of you. And I'm so grateful that you are starting to reveal the parts of you of what you've been struggling with at an even deeper level.

1:29:59You did this before, but you're doing it at a deeper level where I feel like it's feeding your soul. And you're not worried about what people think about you. Not that you did before, but I feel like this is what you're doing now and how you're serving with the letters that you're doing is just really valuable. And I'm grateful for you and I acknowledge you for the gift that you've been giving yourself continually over these last five years to be of support and service to you so that you can serve the way you need to at this season of your life on what God wants you to serve. So I'm really grateful that you're doing this journey.

1:30:38I'm grateful that you're allowing support in your life and you're allowing a team around you as opposed to doing it all yourself. I think that's amazing. And I'm grateful because you get to rest and you also get to inspire and empower other people and provide opportunities for other people to be with you. So I think it's amazing. And how can we follow the letters? How can we sign up for it and be a part of it? So if you go to Substack or if you just Google Elizabeth Gilbert Substack or Elizabeth Gilbert Letters from Love, it'll take you there. And for some people, it's a new technology, but it's just like, essentially you're just signing up for a newsletter.

1:31:17And come and sign up and be part of this community. I also just want to say that that community, I have a friend named Dr. Stephanie Covington who's an expert on women's addiction and recovery. She wrote A Women's Guide Through the 12 Steps. She's a very reputable expert in the psychological field. And she said, that community is the kindest corner of the internet. Wow. And the support that the people in that community are giving to one another as they share this incredible vulnerable work of daring to believe that something might love them. And listening for that voice and downloading those messages and then letting it be seen.

1:31:55There's a tenderness. I mean, it's been 13 months. we haven't had one person bring any negativity into that space, which is astonishing in this age. You know, people are showing up with truly undefended hearts and we're reversing a terrible cultural paradigm of self-hatred, perfectionism, and scarcity and turning it into self-friendliness and acceptance and community love. That's beautiful. So is there a specific website to like directs it to them or just go to Substack and Google? Substack.com.elizabethgilbert.com. I don't even know, whatever. Maybe we can put a link on the thing. We'll put a link in the description.

1:32:38I don't even know. People just find it. But if you just Google Elizabeth Gilbert Substack, it'll take you right to it. Two final questions for you. This one, I think I asked you this. When's the last time you were on? Like seven years ago, eight years ago? God, isn't that crazy? It's crazy to me. Is that long ago? I think it was. Yeah. I'm pretty sure I asked you this question last time, but it may be different now. This is a hypothetical question I ask everyone at the end of a conversation. It's called the three truths. So imagine hypothetically you get to live as long as you want, but it's your last day on this earth.

1:33:12And you get to, from this moment until then, you get to accomplish or live however you want, accomplish all your dreams. Everything comes true that you want. And for whatever reason on the last day, you have to take everything with you. All of your content, books, sub stack, letters, this conversation, everything is gone, hypothetically. But, you know, you get to leave behind three truths. And this is all we have to remember you by are these three lessons that you've learned from everything you've learned. What would be those three truths for you? It's a friendly universe.

1:33:51Transformation is possible. and this is earth school. Yeah, that's good. Okay, final question. What is your definition of greatness? Trust.

1:34:08Trusting that, going back to this is a friendly universe,

1:34:16trusting that we are not alone, that our lives are not accidents, that God doesn't make trash and that you're here because you're wanted to be here and you're wanted and loved and chosen no matter what your family of origin might have said no matter what your culture might have said no matter what the people who left you might have said no matter what your failures and your addictions might have said you are wanted here you are wanted here we want you here that's what i hear the universe say we want you here we love you here um and and we want you to know that that there is no deep cosmic silence there's just 10 000 angels saying we want you here we love you here it's important that you exist um and we want you to stay yeah this is amazing appreciate you love you thank you very much I love you.

1:35:19Amazing. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

1:35:58And I wanna remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

1:36:16Thank you.