Former Secret Service Agent Reveals How to Read Anyone

26:07Why? Less guilt. Less guilt. They didn't hurt someone physically. Yes. They might have hurt them financially. Yes. I'm at home. I'm sitting behind my computer. I'm in my fuzzy slippers. Yeah. Or even if I'm doing it at the ATM, I'm not stealing from you. I'm stealing from the bank. Yeah. But it's different when I walk by you and actually put my hand in your pocket. It's different when I go into your home and I assault you. Yeah. So there's that level of guilt when it's money, and especially if you steal it from an institution, zero guilt. Those were the hardest to get. But yeah, that was my guy.

26:43I will never forget it. That's why I started laughing. Was it him or was it not him? It was him. We arrested him anyway because we had the proof. But it's always great to get, it's always helpful to have a confession because it really just kind of seals everything. You've got the evidence, you've got this, the person said it. But he never agreed to it. No, no, no. He said, it looks like me, but it's not me. No, same New York Snick hat. Yeah, I don't know. I guess he's from New York. who doesn't like the Knicks? He just nothing. And you could see his face. Looks like me. I got nothing from him.

27:11Really? Yeah. So he never actually told the truth, but it was in fact him. It was him. I mean, we had evidence, we had prints and all that stuff. But yeah, no, he, you know, to the end. Nope, not me. Could you tell like... I couldn't tell. You couldn't tell he was lying or not? I couldn't tell. No, he was so believable. But I knew going in that he was my guy right so that's why i was like i know it's him but it was just like stoic and there's a moment i'm like is it not him right these are so good you're like am i seeing this right turn the photo around i'm like no no it's him it's him it's him no no this is you so some people are that good some people are that good they will some people and i think this is look this was also somebody who committed a lot of crimes and he was used to it he's used to it so certain people who are who lie a lot usually become better at it or they don't feel bad.

28:05It becomes better at masking it. You obviously have a great conscience and so it bothered you. And so all your tells were shown. You couldn't conceal it. Yeah, it's like your heart is bumping, like your chest is tight, like your throat is clenching. It bothered you, which is a healthy thing. It's actually a healthy thing when it bothers you. We tend to see in people who have sociopathic tendencies or antisocial tendencies, those people don't tend to be bothered. And so they can lie and can be quite calm about it because they don't feel that guilt. The majority of people will feel guilt. So the majority of people will feel the way you feel because you know it's wrong, you feel it.

28:51Whereas those individuals with those tendencies, they don't care. What about a situation that you lied your way through where someone believed you? Is there a situation like that in the last three to five years where you lied about something you're not proud of maybe or that people believed you? And more than just, oh, I'm having a good day, lie. You know what I did? I could probably confess that this was just so long ago. I went and got, it was back in the day, I got a money order from Western Union, the post office. Post office. And, you know, I was like young. I was a kid. I wasn't making a lot of money.

29:32I was in college. And so I asked for a money order for like$3.99. I pay, I get it. And then as I'm leaving, I see$4.99. And I'm like, oh. A hundred bucks. A hundred bucks. And I took it. And to this day, I remember it. It bothered me. Really? Yeah. It bothered me. Did it bother that you didn't tell the truth right then and say, hey you guys no I took the money yeah I took the money it bothered you that you lied about it statute of limitations I think I'm okay I took the money it bothered me afterward because I knew it was I knew it was wrong I will tell you this one story we went did that come up in the secret service interview did you ever steal something like money when you were younger you know what I did lie about and did come up in my secret service interview I'll tell you that I when I applied for the job when I went to when I went to college, my parents, and I love my family, they weren't very supportive.

30:28They weren't very supportive of my decisions. My dad was a bit difficult. Like, they didn't really want me to go. And so when you apply for college, you need their paperwork, their tax paperwork. I needed aid. They couldn't afford it. And so my dad was so upset with me, he wouldn't give me his tax paperwork. To go to college? Yeah. Didn't agree with my decisions because I was going to private school that they could not afford. And I was like, I'll figure it out on my own. But either way. And so I lied. When I went to the school, I said, I can't get this tax paperwork. You know, the main person was there is like, well, you think you can't get aid?

31:03And so I went back to the school later on and I said, I'm not living at home. I'm alone. Can I get aid? I can't get access to this tax paperwork. And then I got aid. So I flat out, I, yep, I lied. And I spilled the beans in my polygraph. I was like, You told them, this is what happened. I said, I lied to get financial aid. Because I couldn't qualify for aid. And so I was like, you know, they didn't care that. I was like, look, my dad, my mom, they won't give me their tax paperwork. They're so upset with me. They don't agree with my decision to go to this school, to do this. And they're like, no, unless you don't have your parents in your life.

31:42I was just like, I was like, I'm going to college. Yeah. And I lied. But in my polygraph, I was like, I have to tell you something. Actually, I said it before they hooked me up. And I said, look, I did, I lied about this. I did this, you know, like, why did you do it? I was like, I wanted to go to college. I couldn't get money to go to school. So I was okay. I got the job. Wow. How many things did you tell, did you confess to before you took the polygraph? That was my biggest thing. Yeah. That was my thing. Drugs, like I didn't, I never had, I, despite growing up in New York, I never had any issues.

32:12I, I always stayed away from it. I think because I saw so much around it, of that around me. and the more people kind of put it in my face, the more I was kind of like, I'm not doing that. But probably it would have been the opposite. If nobody did it, I'd be the one to be like, oh, I'm going to try this. I think that was the biggest thing. It weighed the heaviest with me because I was like, I did this bad thing. I lied on my financial aid paperwork to get aid. I'm hoping the statute of limitations has expired on that as well. I paid back all my loans. I'm sure it's fine, yeah. I paid back all my loans.

32:44When you're in an interrogation or an interview, or you're on a first date, or you're at a job interview in your career, or any type of first interview with any situation, what's the best way to build command, authority, and credibility? Yeah. So, you can do very simple things like when you greet someone, hi, how are you? Come on in. Why don't you use the bathroom before we get started? So I'm not asking you, would you like to use the bathroom? I'm telling you, why don't you go use the bathroom? Why don't you have something to drink? What can I bring you? Right? So I'm in this subtle way. I'm telling you to go to the bathroom and you're going to go.

33:27Because of the way I said, why don't you go to the bathroom? No, no, go before we get started. You just said authority. Why don't you have something to drink? Oh, no, I'm good. No, have something to drink. We're going to be here for a little bit. Have something to drink. So now I'm planting these little seeds telling you I'm in control. I'm not telling you, but I'm doing it subtly. Have a seat there. You know, you can show me where to sit. Or on the flip side, you could also practice something called autonomy, where you let somebody choose their own seat. And that's a different tactic. So there's two tactics here.

34:01Where would you like to sit? Yeah. Where would you like to sit? so you may use that on me if you want to talk about a topic that i don't want to talk about and so autonomy makes me feel like i have a choice you let me choose where i'm gonna sit because you're gonna let me have it later you're gonna try to push me on something later so i gave you something now the law of reciprocity means you give me something later exactly but also autonomy though it's not it's actually also not reciprocity it's actually more of i feel in control because we don't like to feel like we're not in control so if you want to talk about something where i'm really uncomfortable i don't feel like i'm in control i will give you control elsewhere so i will give you control in picking where you want to meet i will give you control in what time i will give you control in where you want to sit little things like that you can do where that person has autonomy to choose we can do it we can do it here we can talk about this we can talk about this which would would you prefer that's um nobody likes to feel like they don't have control so a way that you can deal with a resistant person is by giving them some level of control when you're going on a first date how is and you've been maybe in an abusive relationship in the past where you were a doormat you were walked on you had no control no authority the person that you were in a relationship with, walked over your boundaries, took advantage of all that, and you've had time to heal, and now you're getting back out there.

35:34Yeah. How can that person create a great dating experience in that first date to put themselves more in the driver's seat with some authority and not a doormat mentality? All right. So there's two things. I think the first thing is don't take out on that person what was done to you by somebody else. That's the worst. Because we've all been victims of things to some degree, right? And let's say even if it was abuse, if it was horrible, it was that. It is also not fair to take that out on an innocent person, like to take your trauma out to someone else. And sometimes we can feel trauma elsewhere and then project it onto someone else who didn't cause that to us.

36:17So I would say that's the most important thing because it will allow you to connect. The other thing I will say is the majority of people tend to trust. When we have relationships with people, we tend to go and trust people. So when someone says something to you, you tend to believe it. We believe it. We're just engineered that way. And I don't even know why that is, but we tend to sway towards trusting the person. In law enforcement, actually, it's the opposite. it. Law enforcement officials are notorious for thinking people are deceitful. So the average person believes people are honest. Law enforcement believes people are deceitful because they deal with more people who lie.

37:05But that causes a problem elsewhere because when you do have innocent people... Or tell the truth. They're telling you the truth. And then you get false confessions. You get problems. You're looking at the wrong person because you're confirmation bias. That's a whole other animal over there. But knowing that we tend to give people, we tend to believe people automatically, just hold a little bit of that back. Don't - Believe less? Just be more reserved in how much you trust. Discerning about it. Yes. Just don't put it all out on the table. Oh my God, this guy's great. Or gal's great. I just connected with them.

37:40And then when we do, we go nose in. And so you don't want to give unconditional trust. So unconditional trust is like I give you now trust across the board. I trust you in everything. When you start dating someone or any new relationship, even in business, always conditional trust. I'm not going to trust you all the way. I'm going to trust you part of the way. So now here's the thing. We love to trust unconditionally, which is probably why we tend to just want to give people trust. It's less work. I could just turn my brain off I can trust you Louis. It's a great story, yeah. Louis, ask me anything you want because you asked me in the beginning, is there anything off the table?

38:20I'm like, no, Louis, go ahead and ask. But you give that person unconditional trust and I don't have to think so hard. I don't have to worry if you're going to manipulate me. I don't have to be on my guard. It's easy. It's easier that relationship. Conditional trust means I have to be a bit more careful. So it's like me going to buy a car. I know I'm dealing with a car salesman. I know I should be careful. it's just understood that they try to get you to buy certain things they use certain language so when i go in i go in with conditional trust and so i'm better protected that's why there you're less likely to get hurt in those situations where you understand i can't fully give everything to this person i can't fully trust them conditionally i can um so i excuse me unconditionally So I have to just be careful.

39:07The thing is, that's work. It's a lot of work. We get tired. We access a specific part of the brain when we do that, a more complex part of the brain. So that's why unconditional trust, you don't want to give it right away. And that is why when we get betrayed by people close to us, that's why it hurts more. It's usually by people who betrayed us on who we give unconditional trust to. That's my advice for dating. That's when it stings. Would you use the same approach if, let's say you're, you know, I haven't been on a first date in forever, but let's say you're on a date, your first date with someone.

39:45Would you say, hey, why don't you have some water? Why don't you use the restroom first? Where would you like to sit? Would you do the same approach there? I would not because I don't want to establish authority there. That's not, if you're looking to have a relationship, I would not do that. That's not, that's, that's creepy. That's a controlling unhealthy relationship. What should you establish? Trust? I think rapport and trust. And I think probably the best thing you can do is just not talk about yourself and listen to that other person. Just ask about them. What would be the... You did that to me when I walked in.

40:18Yeah. It was like heavy, boom, boom, boom, boom. I was like, ah. What would be the three questions, three most fascinating questions someone could ask on a first date that would not be interrogational, but be connecting questions? Ted, tell me. Tell me about yourself. Explain to me what your dreams are. Describe to me what your, you know, what your hopes are. Don't create a question because you may ask a question that you think is fascinating and they're going to look at you like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You don't, right? Because you don't know what they think like, what their aspirations are.

40:54We're on a hypothetical first date. What would you say to me? Tell me about your podcast. I'd love to hear all about it. Explain to me how you got into that. Describe to me what it's like when you interview all these different people. I'm going to shut up and I'm going to let you go, Louis. Because now I get to hear you. I get to see what you're like, your values, your beliefs. What excites you, what doesn't excite you. You're going to tell me about why you started it. You're going to tell me about your background, what got you into it, any growing pains or heartaches or how this happened. You're going to tell me about your favorite guests.

41:27You're not favorite guests. You're going to tell me about the amazing things you learned or maybe some of the things that you were like, I can't believe I brought this guest on. And so now you just opened up this world and I had to do no work and I can just listen. These are more indirect questions, is that right? Open-ended questions. So don't ask a direct question. Who is your favorite guest? Don't say that. I would tell me about, tell me about your guests. And then I would allow you to naturally tell me on your own because you feel like you're in control. And it's more likely that you will tell me on your own.

41:59But if I ask you directly, and if you want to protect the integrity of the people you interview, because you don't want to say, this is my favorite guest to make it public because then it's going to hurt the people that come on the show, right? Your clientele, so to speak, your guests. So I would, you're not going to answer it. You're going to be reluctant. Oh, I love everybody. It's like my kids. You know, you can't say you have a favorite kid. It's all your kids. You're going to say that. It's like when people ask me, who's your favorite president? I always say, I love them all. I love protecting all of them.

42:30But if somebody says, tell me about the people you protected or tell me about the presidents you protected. Now, I feel comfortable. I'm in control. I'm talking. The more we talk, the more we leak. I'm less guarded. It's less direct. I don't even know you're trying to find that. And I may naturally on my own get them. Tell me about a characteristic of a president that wowed you the most. You like that opener? You like that opener? Oh, you used Ted on me. A characteristic from one of the presidents that you were just like, obviously they're all inspiring in some way, I'm assuming, for you. But tell me about a characteristic or a belief, a mindset, an approach, a strategy that one of them used that wowed you?

43:18I liked, there's a couple, there's like little things. I'll tell you, President, former President George Bush, Senior, he used to write note cards to everybody. He had a little, he wrote note cards, thank you so much. He would just send little note cards to people. And I saw what an impact that made to people to receive a handwritten note. He hand wrote it from someone saying, thank you, I appreciate you. And to this day, I do that. And I took that from President George Bush. Because I saw that and I was like, what a wonderful thing. And I saw how much of an impact that did. It was a very little thing, but I took that from him.

44:00So whenever I meet someone or there's an exchange or something, I will write a handwritten note card. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. And it does a lot. Did he write you a card? He did not write me a card. He wasn't my full-time protectee, but I watched. Yeah, you watched him actually write it for other people? Yeah. Or you saw other people get it? Both. You would see them when they would work, and you would know what they did or didn't do. But that's what he did. And other characteristics, I think, I liked President Obama. I liked the way he spoke. And for me, that was very, I appreciated that because I, although I was an agent and an interviewer, I didn't know how to speak for myself.

44:46It's weird, right? I could speak on behalf of the government and the law and all that, but I never paid attention to the way I spoke to people. And what I loved, you could hear him. You could hear him. Usually you call renegade. I could say it. It's public. It's in his book. Renegade on the move, right? You could hear the agents say that, but you could hear him. You could hear him. I love the way he echoed his voice and projected his voice and didn't hold it back. And how he took his time to speak. Where a lot of people speak very fast because we feel that we're not worthy of somebody's time. I don't want to take up too much of your time, so I'm going to speak fast.

45:29We do that. We feel like, let me just hurry up and say this. This person is probably busy. They have things to do. And then he really projected his voice. Like it boomed through the hallways. And that was a person who was not shy of being present, of taking a space and letting you know I'm here and my voice is relevant. I like that. That's powerful. Yes. Any other characteristics from anyone else? Hmm. There's so many. The ones that wowed you, that stood out? They all did. They were all great. George Washington, oh my God. All right. How old are you?

46:12GW, President George Bush. He, like, I love going to the ranch with him. I'm from New York City. I go to Texas. And I was just like, what? You know, it was like we were out in the wild. He's like, we're going, we're going to make trails. I was like, why are we going to make trails? There's a road right there. You know, we'd cut trails and hike. And he was very authentic. who he was on camera was who he was off camera and vice versa he was very just real and so you'd see these qualities with different people and you know it's kind of interesting i just thought of it i was almost like in my own school of greatness by being in the white house and then over all the years of about you're around all these people these influential leaders despite forget politics it still takes a person of some...

47:04To get there. Yes, to get there. And so you watch them. And they're not just them. They've got cabinet members, other individuals who, you know, you watch and you listen to, you see how they problem solve. And I was in my own school of greatness where I just got to be front row and you're doing your job. At the same time, you're like, you're listening, you're watching, you're absorbing. I loved it. Were there any strategies you witnessed or watched or observed from them telling you or not telling you on how they commanded respect and authority in just their way of being, tonality, was it touching people, you know, in their hand?

47:45Is it, you know, whatever it is. Eye contact. What were the things that they did or that some of them did that really stood out to you? So I'll tell you this. They didn't have to work as hard. Because they're already the authority. Because they're already the authority. So you don't, so I want to say that. Like they don't, a president can look at you and be like, hey, how you doing? And then like blow you off and you're like, oh my God, I got like a whole solid second. Whereas when they're talking to me or you, it's just like, he only gave me a second. Right? So they don't have to work as hard.

48:13So even the little attention they give you lands on you. However, though, eye contact is huge. When you talk to someone and you want to convey, you want to convey, hey, trust me. And rapport, this is huge. In fact, if you go to the supermarket and you look at cereal boxes, they have the characters on the cereal boxes. They're looking at you. You know where a lot of them look down? They're looking down. You know where they're looking down? You'll see cereal boxes where the character looks down. At the cereal. No. I'm a cereal box, right? I'm the Trix rabbit or whatever, right? Now, you go shopping.

48:50I'm not looking at you. I'm looking down. Why am I looking down? The rabbit's looking down. Right. The rabbit's looking down. Thank you. Wow. Because the kid's the consumer. Yeah, not the adult. No, the kid's going to say, Mom, come grab me. Mom, buy that for me. Oh my gosh. So they design them to actually look down and they also put them at a certain level. And so maybe an adult serial, they'll have the person looking at higher up because they're looking at the adult. Eye contact is huge. It conveys, trust me, talk to me. I'm here, I'm connected with you. Even when you want to listen to people.

49:26Normally we do break eye contact, but good communicators will lock in. They're not uncomfortable. They're there. I'm with you. I'm connected with you. That is huge. You touched on literally touching people and you would see a tactic. I don't want to say a tactic, but no, it's a tactic. It's a strategy. It's a strategy. It's, you know, hey, you know, Lewis, and, you know, maybe I like to touch your forearm. Yeah. You can do that. But I will say today. You can't do that. Today is very different. Yeah. You know, they would teach us that. They're like, hey, you can touch the top of a person's knee and just be like, hey.

50:01And I could be like, whoa, unwanted touch. So now I would actually go against that. I would actually encourage people not to do that just simply because you don't know how it's going to be received. And now today it's, you got to be a little bit, less is more with that. Yeah, I mean, shaking your hand maybe and that's it for a second hand on the top, like a genuine heartfelt for two seconds and then let it go. Yeah, I think so. I think so. So you want to respect people's space. It's a little bit different. I think we have more, well, we do have more social space now. And it's interesting how that's going to change the dynamics of how we interact in the future.

50:36Interesting. How do you build that trust without being present and more connected and touching? Right. And you have a mask. You can't even see the lower portion of a person's face, which conceals their expressions, their gestures. So it's even harder to read them. So how do we read people like that? Is it more body language then of like shoulders down as opposed to? The tone, the inflection of the voice. Does it change? Does it not? The body posture. Again, sometimes it's just as simple as how they say something, you know, the way they deliver a story. For example, when I worked cases, sometimes I did interviews and interrogations, and I would be asked to help local police departments sometimes.

51:17And they'd say, look, we have this case, and we've got three suspects, but we can't figure out who it is. And I would, you know, I'd always want to interview the person I thought it was. And so I would say, send me, do you have statements? And they say, yes. And I'd say, send me the statements that they wrote. Written statements. Written statements. About what they said, their story is. Their story is, correct. Because these are people typically that had been already interviewed by local police. They got nothing. They have no proof. So they would reach out and they say, look, you guys are polygraph examiners.

51:54You have a bit more expertise in this. Will you help us out? It's an important case. And so I say, send me their statements. And so I'd look at their statements and based on their statements, I would be able sometimes, most of the time to tell who likely did it. And it was those statements that, and this also happens when we tell a story, when we speak, when you ask somebody, what did you do yesterday? When they deliver a beautiful story to you that has a beginning every two minutes yeah and an end it's an arc when it's a story it's an arc it's typically manufactured that's a lie usually yes because we don't typically talk about our stuff like that and so when I would read a store with I would read a statement and if I read like a story because the person's like the liar is like oh I got to write a story I got to tell them what I did here then that here they're they're manufacturing it a truthful person is gonna write how their day went and a truthful person also makes spontaneous corrections.

52:56So it contradicts what a lot of people think in that if I correct myself as I'm telling you something. Then it looks like I'm hiding something. Then I'm, it looks like I'm, yes, I'm correcting myself because I'm hiding something. I can't remember my lie. And it's actually not true. Those are the honest ones. Yes. Actually, that was a mistake. It's a spontaneous correction. When it's unsolicited and somebody you're speaking to, or even in writing, you'll see a scribble. It's okay. If it's a spontaneous correction, meaning they're correcting themselves as they're speaking to you, it indicates truthfulness.

53:34That's an interesting little... Yes. And also too, like a little one, when somebody uses quotes, when they talk to you, they'll say, oh, he said... And quote, you know, they'll tell you something somebody said in quotes. Like he said, you know, this in quotes. That's also truthful. The air quotes. The air quotes. When someone uses that, not on the written paper quotes, but the air quotes. Even in both, yes. Someone uses quotes. Yes. And I repeat, they said this. That means they're telling more likely the truth. Yes. Why is that? Because they're being very specific. We also know, based on the research, people who lie, lie vaguely.

54:10Remember I said, it's work. It's hard work. It's you're trying to create a lie. Tell a lie. Remember the lie. Listen to the person speaking to you. Think about what you want to say. There's so much going on. And so what they do is they lie vaguely because it's too hard for me to remember all these details, create all these details. It's just too much. It's a heavy cognitive load. What would you say is the way to overcome self-doubt and build confidence? Some things they could do. Stop doing things that you're only comfortable with. Take risks. Make decisions. I think I've noticed that with people who lack confidence, they're quite indecisive.

54:54Indecisiveness is a big thing. And what they will do is they will go take a survey and ask everybody around them, what do you think I should do? What do you think I should do? And you're asking a person who has no ability to, you're asking someone with no expertise about something. It'd be like, love mom. But it'd be like me asking my mom, hey mom, do you think I should do this TV show? And she'd be like, what did you say? What TV show? Oh, you're going to be on TV? You know, like I can't ask my mom about a TV business decision. She doesn't have the experience. I can ask her about something else, you know, that she does have experience in.

55:33But indecisiveness is key. How does someone build decisiveness? You got to stop asking people what to do and just do it. And then when you make a mistake, own it. Fall on your face. The more you fail, the more confident you become. You can't fear failure. I failed, Louis, I don't even know. I feel so much. And I look at it like, all right. And once that happens, once the worst thing that could happen to you happens, and you are still standing, you are still there, you are still breathing, like, ah. That builds resilience. Indecisiveness, knock that out. The minute you're like, let me ask people, stop, choose.

56:13Don't worry about it whether you're right or wrong. Just do it. So we got to take risks, make decisions, fail often, choose. Anything else in overcoming self-doubt that you've seen? The way you talk to yourself in your head. Watch the language you use. Watch your mouth with yourself. So for example, I work out. And so there are moments where it happens where I'm sitting on the sofa and I'm just like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to go run outside. I don't want to go to jujitsu. I'm tired. I want to sit. I want to eat popcorn. I don't want to do anything. I want to watch Netflix. I will never say to myself, don't be lazy.

56:53Get up. I'm not lazy. There's nothing about me that is lazy. Why would I ever say that to me? But I will say, if you move, get up, go. And I may be bitching as I'm putting on my sneakers. I don't want to do this. I hate this, whatever. But I will be putting them on and doing it and then go. But I will never call myself names. and that's something i had to learn over time man this is my entire childhood was calling myself names you're never going to mount anything you're stupid you suck why did you do that idiot you know all these things even something as simple as like oh i'm such an idiot what did i do why did i put that there and i catch myself i'm like don't say that about yourself you're not an idiot i wouldn't want another human i wouldn't want somebody else to call me an idiot why would i call myself an idiot.

57:36We get pissed at other people when they call us that stuff, but we don't know. We should get mad at ourselves for calling us that stuff. Yeah. What would you say are the three greatest skills that you have as an interrogator? As an interrogator? I can listen. I can listen and have a person completely shred me and not say a word. What does that mean, shred you? Like you can have somebody be like, I hate you, you're this, you're that, you know. You don't react. In the interview room, especially with the job, I would sit and take it because it wasn't my ego. It's less personal too. It was less personal.

58:14But I've been able to, not always successfully, but even in my personal life, maybe not with my husband so much. He's probably like, yeah, that's bullshit. But he's an interrogator too, so it's all right. but typically with friendships relationships i'm better at not like i can i you know i can have people say hurtful or cruel things and not respond i'm not saying it hurt it doesn't hurt and there's moments you know you have those moments where maybe a business relationship doesn't go well or you have a friend or even a distant family member and like they send you a horrible email that you know soul crushing and you just want to point out like just the the you know the lies or the inadequacies and what they wrote and i have learned to not respond or to try not to respond i have my moments too but i really think to myself is this person worth responding to sometimes it's hard because it's like i hear what this person's saying i see what they're doing and you want to respond.

59:19And I think it takes so much discipline to not be mean to someone who's being mean to you or hurtful to you. Yeah, that's tough. Because we all go through that. Each one of us has people in our lives who give us hate. And you're like, how's this happening? Why is this happening? And you want to give it back, especially when you've trusted them unconditionally. You feel betrayed. You believed everything they say. You believed, you accessed the primitive part of your brain and you gave them all that trust. You didn't give them conditional, you know, trust. You gave it all up. And then that relationship goes south and you're, you're just, you can be distraught.

1:00:00That's, that's hard. How do we learn, how did you learn to respond in an empowering way or not respond at all when someone attacks you? That, to be fair, I learned that in the interrogation room, in the interview room. When we were. Were you always like that? So you weren't always like that. No. He's like, screw you. I was bad. I was bad. I was pretty bad. Yeah, I took after my father in that part, you know. And look, I give my dad kudos in that. Like even, you know, I talked about the cursing thing. And I realized where I got it when I go home as a kid sometimes. And I'm like, dad, this person picked on me and this, that.

1:00:34This is his advice. Did you say, fuck you? He never taught me to be a victim. and so sometimes being able to like say hey F you gives you power back to say like I'm not going to take this I'm not going to do this the three greatest skills you have as an interrogator listen I think being able to take it when people are cruel and I think we touched on that it takes more self control and more self discipline to be able to not say something and say something there's this great quote I'm going to butcher it. Aristotle said it, I believe. And it's like, to get angry is an easy thing, but to be angry with the right person for the right reason and in the right way and for the right situation is not easy and not within everybody's power.

1:01:28And so for me, I work on that just because I naturally gravitate to that. If you have a victim mentality a lot, maybe step it up and defend yourself a little more. Yeah, or put yourself in uncomfortable places. And when people say things to you, you can't let it crush you. You got to have a little bit of that. Who are you? Yeah, some thick skin. Yeah. But not even thick skin, but the ability to say like, you're wrong. I know you're wrong. I don't even need to tell you you're wrong. And I think the third thing would be what I learned is when you try to say something to someone and when you're going to explain something to someone, you have to ask yourself, does this person sitting across from me have the ability to understand the perspective I'm about to share with them?

1:02:14Right. They may not. And if they don't, just sit there and just be like, okay, okay. Oh my God, look at that. Look at the time I got to go. And so I think not wasting your time banging down a door that it's not even a door. It's like letting that go. I've got a couple of final questions for you. Yes. This is called the three truths. It's a hypothetical question. Oh, I'm nervous. Imagine your last day on earth many years away from now. Okay. And you've got to accomplish everything you want to accomplish. All your dreams come true. Everything you want to do, it happens. Okay. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you.

1:02:53Your written work, your books, your audio, this interview, it's all going to go with you to the next place, wherever you go. You've got to take everything with you. So no one has access to your content anymore. or a recording of you anymore or your information. Okay. But you get a piece of paper and a pen and you get to write down three lessons you've learned from your life that you'd want to share with the world. I call it the three truths. What would you say would be your three truths that you would share with everyone? Do the right thing even when it's not the most popular thing to do. That would be huge because sometimes you're doing the right thing and everybody around you is telling you, you're wrong, you're this, you're that.

1:03:36And it's like, if you know it to be the right thing, do it. That's not easy.

1:03:44Three things that I would leave behind, right? Number two. Say it again. I want to hear it again. This is all you have to leave behind. Lessons that you've learned from your life. Lessons. I call them three truths. Do the right thing, even when it's not popular. Make your own decisions.

1:04:10Fail as much as possible. Because the more you fail, it means the more you're doing and the more you're putting yourself out there. When you don't fail, it means you're not doing anything. That's true. Yeah. Oh, that was deep, Louis. That's good. I like this. I want to acknowledge you for a moment. The fact that you've gone through these different stages of your life and done the right thing even when it's not popular. Try. You try to. I don't want to put on. You try to. I might have had a little bit of Lewis and me too growing up. I'm not going to. I'm far from perfect. I will say that. Well, I acknowledge you for being in the industry and the level of service that you've had for trying to do the right thing, trying to help people make better decisions, having justice where justice is needed and being a force for good.

1:04:59You've shown as a force for good for many, many years in your level of service. So I really acknowledge you for showing up and then also moving into the next stage of your life and showing up in a different way to serve people with this type of information to help people, to spread the knowledge that you've learned in these different environments. So I really acknowledge you for the gift that you are, for showing up, for learning, for failing, for growing and all the stuff you're doing. It's really inspiring. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

1:05:29Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

1:06:08And now it's time to go out there and do something great.