Heal First, Love Better: The Repair Framework That Changes Everything

26:46Also me, also me. Also me, yeah. And the other partner is what she calls the acceptance partner. And this is the partner who's like, but can't we just relax? Yes, yes. Can't we just like, isn't it all good the way we are now? Like, can't things be okay the way they are? They're fighting for like presence and peace and just, well, one's fighting for growth, the other is fighting for like the calm peace. Let's just live in it. Just relax. Yeah, yeah. It's all good. Yeah. Let's not face our traumas anymore. Like, come on, let's just chill. Let's just chill. Have fun. Yeah, totally. Now, those two things polarize one another, right?

27:24When one partner is like, let's go to therapy. And the other is like, we don't need therapy. Like when those two poles stretch, that's going to be really tough. And it happens all the time. In fact, I think it was one of the most viral videos is this video. And the most scathing comments I have ever gotten are on this video Because people want to just rail the acceptance partner. They're lazy. They just want to go after them. I'm the one who's doing all the work. If it wasn't for me, we wouldn't move an inch. Nothing would get done in our relationship. And there's part that's true about that. But what needs to happen is that it's actually similar to what we were talking about earlier around the co-regulation and auto-regulation.

28:07And if you're better at co-regulating, you need to learn auto-regulating. is they both come towards the other. They both, the acceptance, if the acceptance partner starts to now engage the change partner in conversations that are growth-oriented, asking like, what was challenging for you today? I'd love for you to talk about your innermost world, right, to a change partner that's like swooning them best, right? And if the change partner says, let's get therapy this week. Why don't we just go do something fun? Let's hang out. then the exceptions partners like i want to go to therapy yeah you want to do more of it yeah they can start to um depolarize one does depolarize a word i don't know anyway um one another and and kind of relax one another right exactly but both sides need to and it's not exactly what you're talking about but it but it made me think of it because of the change change except except um um if both sides can actually come to one another and say this neither is right and i will tell you right now especially in the self-development space the change partners think they're right.

29:10I am a change partner. I think I'm right. I have to tell you, I still think I'm right. But in my, I will say there was one moment that I could process endlessly. This is my favorite game. Let's go to therapy process. It's supposed to just move on. Yeah. Yeah. And my wife is very different. And so one day she comes up to me and she was like, I have to tell you, I have hit my limit. Like I've hit capacity. I can't process anymore. I can't process anymore. And for what She had said that before, and I heard it more from her wounding. For whatever reason, I heard this actually from the relationship's wisdom speaking.

29:44I like to think about the relationship having three poles, you, your partner, and the relationship entity itself. And this comes from a friend and colleague, Annie Lala, who's fantastic. She's a love coach. But I love thinking about this relationship entity that has wisdom for you that's outside of either person and your individual personal preferences. So she says this, and in my head immediately, I'm like, I think this is the relationship talking like i think she actually has she she's on to something here maybe our relationship does need more play and fun and relax and so in that moment i don't know what happened to me but like the higher version of myself just said yeah okay let's cancel therapy for three months and see what we had a fantastic three months and you know what i i started to learn was like how to let things roll off my back more easily where I, where normally it might be hard.

30:38It was like, I learned all these things about what it would mean if we actually didn't process, we weren't sweeping things under the rug. Like we would bring little things up, but the big things just didn't seem to like, nothing seemed to matter as much. Yeah. And the interesting thing is like, I think when you, when things are good, like in the beginning of the relationship, I was, I said, I want to do therapy more out of a fear. Cause I was like, I don't want to go two years into this relationship, repeat for the sixth time now, a relationship going two years deep. The first year is great. The second year starts to have this struggle.

31:11We're trying to get back to how it was in the beginning. I see, I was the only one that would suggest therapy. I don't know any woman that's met a man that said like, I want to go to therapy. So I was always the one in the women. I was, whatever reason, the women I chose never wanted to go to therapy. And I was like, what is it? What am I attracting? You know? And it's like, I want to tell them every woman would beg for their guy to go to therapy. They're like, you don't want to. And, um, side note anyways. And so it was more of a fear. I was like, I'm only getting this relationship if we start in therapy and I always wanted to do it, but it was more like, I want to know quickly, like if we're going to work or not, like I want to know in the first six months, then I want to wait two years.

31:50And, and I was just kind of at that phase of my life. I was like, unless you're willing to do this and even her just committing to it. I was like, I could have just let it go because I'm like, oh, at least I know you're into growth, right? We did it for about a year and a half anyways. And it really helped us get alignment and agreements and values in place. And that's where we're able to actually fast forward disagreements. We learned about each other in therapy and the wounds that each one had. And so when there were disagreements, we were able to process them with a middle person, right? With someone that could guide us in our own personal healing journeys and then together with agreements.

32:28So it created this sense of shared individual safety and then relationship safety that we were willing to invest in agreements early on. And when there were breakdowns, which there were, how do we process and navigate this conflict where we feel both safe and the relationship feels safe? So it took about a year and a half of like doing that consistently where I felt great. And then maybe we would go once every like whatever, three or six months. and it still felt great. And in the last year, it's funny you say this because she said something yesterday or two days ago to me. She was like, I feel like we should do a session together.

33:02And I actually said, no, I don't think we need a session. I was like, we haven't done a session together in like a year probably, maybe a year and a half. And I was like, I don't think we need a session. I think we're exactly where we need to be. And I have processed so much on my own. And I'm like, I'm willing to sit with you at any moment and talk about anything. And we can go over anything and we can talk about it. we have the tools to do this as well. If we are in a breakdown together, then I think we should. But life's been amazing. We haven't had the greatest year. And I don't want you to fall back into fear of needing therapy to feel good.

33:39We can feel safe having whatever conversation we need. And so if you want to schedule time for us to talk and do something together, I'm here whenever you want. She was like, okay. And I go, and if you want to do something solo on your own, great, go do it. But I'm like, I don't feel like I need more. It's like, I need just more play. And so it's interesting that your wife said the same thing. But I was like, I'm here to talk at any moment about any fear or concern you have. Because again, she's a few weeks away from having birth. And so I know there's a lot of emotions coming up. And I'm like, I'm here any moment to talk.

34:15I'm here to create a safe space. I'm here to engage in any fear or conversation you want to have. Because I know you're going to have concerns about the future. I understand. I can't fully understand, but I can appreciate what you're experiencing. And I'm here for you. And let's talk. Right now, later, tomorrow, I'm here. As much as you want, I'm here. But I don't want to go schedule and go somewhere to do that. Let's just do it. And I think it's knowing how to create that space as well for me, which has been helpful. Because that's also creating a boundary for yourself of like, I'm doing an interview with you today.

34:48This is therapy. You know what I mean? And it's like, I'm doing four of these a week in these conversations. It can be emotionally draining if you're processing constantly and imagining these things. Absolutely. If you're doing it all the time. Absolutely. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. And as a change partner and as a change partner myself, it's also a way to control your environment. This is the kind of shadow side. There's, of course, the benefit of being the change partner. But part of the shadow side of it is if I continue to need change in this relationship, what I'm not actually addressing is what might not be working if I don't control the situation.

35:29There's a phase in relationship that I think is important to note that it's called disillusionment. And every relationship will go through it. What is disillusionment in relationship? relationship it's this time and i think and i say this now because oftentimes the change partner wants to keep changing wants to keep changing because they don't actually because accepting where they are is it can actually be too painful for some people it's it's you realize like the relationship like you're saying it doesn't need as much work as you might think it does for other people though it's it's actually sitting with wait a second this is not what i signed up for.

36:06And if I keep committing to change and the work, if I keep going into the work, I don't actually have to sit with, this isn't it. Or I don't have to sit with accepting exactly where we are. Disillusionment is the process of moving from hope that things will be different to acceptance that things are the way they are. And it may not change. That's exactly right. And do I want to be in this relationship? Is this the envision? As is. Is this the Disney fairyland romantic story that I envisioned living myself in? Well, let's hope that it's not because those don't exist. Exactly. Those don't exist.

36:44But if there is a way that you're holding on to hope that your partner is going to show up differently, do something differently, and you've done, you've asked the questions, you've gone to therapy, and they're not doing it. And you have to accept. First, you grieve. Oh, yeah. You're like loss. That this is not where I thought we'd be. This is not the relationship. I thought, oh, it is so tough. And can I stay in this relationship? Now that I've invested years of my life, and if I get out of this, I want to redate someone, and then what if that doesn't work out? The whole thing. The process of moving from hope to disillusionment, which is, I actually have to release hope in order to see what's truly here.

37:31Grieve that and then understand if I am okay staying in this relationship as it is today if nothing changed or reckon with the fact that this isn't the thing that I signed up for. And then do whatever work you need to do about that, which is often boundary setting and taking care of yourself. And if you take care of yourself, it brings me back to something you were talking about where you were saying you did this three-month period with this girlfriend, just continuing to show up the way that was in your work. You're focused on your work over and over again. As long as that's what you're doing, as long as you're sort of minding your own business and your work, and you're setting boundaries, and you're doing it more lovingly, and you're being open, and you're bringing the things that are yours to bring to the table, and you're using I language, and you're taking responsibility, and you're doing your part, and nothing changes, then you're out of the power struggle because the power struggle is the thing that keeps you in the hope that something will be different.

38:32And then you have a choice to make. That's exactly right. Do I accept this life or do I move on? Exactly. Can I accept the relationship and the person I've chosen to be with if nothing's going to change? Maybe there's a little bit in the future, but I can only hope, but there's not a guarantee. But every relationship goes through disillusionment at one point or another. Maybe it happens year one. Maybe it happens year 10. And it's confusing because it feels like the end because it is. It is the end of a chapter. My supervisor Esther Pharrell talks about this, how she's been in multiple marriages but all to the same person.

39:08I think that's a beautiful thought. And I have friends who that's the same for them as well. Like they have been in relationship long enough that they have gone through multiple iterations of the relationship but they have had to let the previous version of their relationship die. I would say I'm in that phase right now in terms of like, you know, before Martha, you know, before we were married, it was a version of a relationship. It was like, we're traveling everywhere and doing these things. And the thing, you know, after married, she got pregnant very quickly. So we're still traveling and doing certain things, but it's preparing for a different future with children in mind.

39:43We have twins on the way. So it's preparing for, you know, a eight, well, really an eight month process of pregnancy, but then probably six to a year long process of a, not a, you know, to a full recovery, I guess, of like body shifting and changing for two years, essentially from, you know, growing human life to then recovering from that. And then your whole identity shifts from the moment you get pregnant to the moment you have kids that do different identity to getting back into day-to-day life as a mom and as apparent like in a relationship your identity is shifting constantly right and you have to grieve a past absolutely even if you're okay with it not being there anymore and you're excited about the future you still have to let go of it and grieve it and choose to accept what you have and be okay with it maybe you're not okay with it but you have to choose if you want to make the most out of your life otherwise you're going to struggle absolutely and then you you stay in that for as long, for as long as you grip, you will stay in that contraction.

40:46And I mean, I just hear about this all the time with people. They won't change. What do I do? They don't, they keep doing this. What do I do? They, they, they, they, they. And that makes sense because they're on the other side of your pain. But as long as we're looking over there, and this is my work too, this is for so many of us, as long as we're, we're putting our hands in the honeypot over there, we're not actually able to see what's needed to be done over here in our world. And this is the, as much as I hate to say it, it's the only thing we can control. We have no control over another human being.

41:24And the more that we try to control somebody, we learn very quickly, nobody likes to be controlled. No. Unless you're like a weak person that just says, control me. Or you're doing BDSM in the bedroom. In that case, it's agreed upon anyway. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no one likes to be forced to change from someone else. And that's why I was like, the only time I'm going to get angry, upset, or frustrated is if you try to change me. Because that was what most of my life was in relationships, not being accepted for who I was. And for the person who wants their partner to change, it's the part of them that so...

42:00I just learned this over and over again. the part of them that so desperately wants to be met and seen and understood that you changing could allow that feeling for them. That if you were just a little more, just like a dash more of this and a dash less of this, then I would feel X. I would feel happy, settled, safe, all of those things. But it's an illusion. It's an illusion. It's an illusion. You have to create peace and safety within you no matter what someone else is doing outside of you. You have to. Again, hard thing to do. Probably the hardest thing for me in my 20s and my early 30s and mid-30s actually until I really just like, I was like, I had to reflect on all my relationships.

42:44I was like, man, I keep attracting based on a psychological wound. It's not about any person I've been with. It's about me and my responsibility and choosing and then lacking the courage to really speak speak my boundaries and stick to boundaries or choosing the courage to say gosh you're a fascinating person I want the best for you but we can't be together and being okay with the reaction of that because I was never okay when someone was like I can't believe you don't want to be like i couldn't deal it was like uh i never wanted to upset anyone or learn that you will survive even if you don't feel okay exactly yeah that there's going to be tension of course no matter no matter what i like that i like that courage and the ability to emotionally regulate when someone was like freaking out it's so hard to do when we haven't learned that that's the thing we need to practice it was everything we there i'm just gonna say it again there is no getting around it it is the practice is facing that tension so i'm curious then maybe this is too personal but you how many like long-term male relationships were you in oh boy like more than more than six months what would you say um like a handful five ten five to seven five to seven okay since you were like 18 not like 13 year old like yeah yeah i mean i had five to seven yeah yeah like five to Over six months, maybe a couple of years or something.

44:15You're engaged once.

44:20Do you feel like you've healed from those relationships with men? I don't know. My last relationship, which wasn't the engagement, I entered into that on really probably the least confident I had ever been because I was just leaving. It was a year or so after the engagement. and you were you were feeling i was kind of wounded weaker i didn't and i insecure a little bit yeah like i had i just had lost a lot of my confidence yeah coming out of that it's yeah it's normal i mean yeah anyone would it was like i had i started to question my own reality and how i you know so anyhow i was and i and you got into another relationship yeah when you were at a lower point Yes.

45:09And I chose someone who was very strong willed. And I, I bent to them over and over and over again. And the truth that's not like I'm not proud to admit this. My wife has been the first person and it might be because she's a woman that I've been able to stand up in a way that I had never been able to. I mean, I was a pleaser through and through. I appeased. I was so scared of causing tension and conflict. Like I was very terrified of someone getting mad at me. Yeah. And my wife is the first person who I've really been able to, I mean, we've done the deepest work I've ever done relationally in this relationship.

45:50And part, I have to wonder if part of that is because she's a woman. And so I feel less threat. And I don't know the answer to that. I don't actually know the answer to that. um and i don't know if i'll hopefully i'll not find out because i'm this she's my you know i hope we're together forever but i i don't feel anger towards men like i don't i i and some of my male patients are my favorite patients so it's not like i have a i just i you're also not an intimate relationship with them where that wound totally 100 that's you're totally right you're totally right. You're distanced and you're able to give advice.

46:31Yeah. It's a safe environment. But I don't know that I would be able to work or maybe because I'm in this relationship that I will have had enough practice that if I ever needed, I could really face the, you know, whatever tension I might need to with a male, but I don't have that practice right now because I'm practicing with a woman. Yeah. And so, yeah. And I haven't, I haven't thought actually a lot about that. Uh, so I don't have a great answer. Where do you think your life would be in the future, if you allowed yourself to reflect and see if you still needed healing and allowed yourself to heal from all the male relationship energy that you've experienced or the lack of healthy relationship with men that you've experienced, where do you think your relationship with yourself would be in the future if you're able to do that, your relationship with your wife would be, and your relationship with the world would be?

47:23it's hard for me to know how much of my relationship dynamic with emmy is because she's a woman and because she sort of represents both to me like she has a lot of masculinity in her and so i can project maleness onto her but i guess irrelevant of her if you were able to you know maybe maybe don't need healing from it but if you if it comes to you in the future that you do and you're able to dive in deeper and integrate the healing with the past relationships, maybe you'll never be able to fully do that because you're not going to get in a relationship with a man again. But if you're able to do it in a way that allowed you to fully heal from those previous relationships, where do you think you would be personally for the future?

48:10Irrelevant of your partner. I mean, it's tricky to say irrelevant for my partner because I think the truth is I am healing those parts. I think that's kind of what we were talking about before, which is the parts of me that I brought that have been unhealed, irrespective of gender, are showing up here. My trust, perfect examples. I did not have the same trust issues before my fiance for my ex-fiance i was a pretty maybe even naively trusting person before that yeah you trusted people i i i that was my blanket i believe it that was sort of blanket and i think i grew out of being naive into more discernment from that so that's one benefit that came out of it but i have i have watched my nervous system react to things with emmy that they would have never reacted to like what like one that has honestly really surprised me at the beginning of our relationship was she's way more extroverted i can play an extrovert on tv but i'm i'm i do well like your space yeah yeah and she wants to stay at the party until the very end i'm like 10 o 'clock feels good after a saturday night let's go you know and and and at the beginning it was really really hard for me when she would stay at a party later and I would go home I would room and I would be like is she is something gonna happen and it wasn't it was it was the fear that she was going to come home and tell me something that was gonna knock me because that's what happened what like someone hit on me or someone did this like she like she made out with somebody and was so sorry about it and she would never do it again but she just did and like something like that that i think because my ex-fiance like that that knocked me i mean i was i couldn't work after like it really rocked me in a way that nothing had rocked me before that relationally and i i think i was so scared of being rocked like that again like that something could just so quickly like that come out of the blue and hit me and take me down that it was like my fear of that yeah and and it took me it took me honestly it took over and over again her coming home later and me and her not not saying anything about doing any breaking a boundary or breaking an agreement do you guys have an open relationship no no no but you're just like if she cheated on me if she yeah it was like break my life it would yeah like something if she broke a boundary or or really what it was is if she the question that I have had since that relationship is when I get triggered I say I ask myself what am I missing so I get vigilant I get sort of like super hyper so I'm I'm sort of like scanning my environment for what am I missing so if I feel off about something then I start to be like okay what am I missing now what I have learned that is that I learned this again from a friend of mine Annie Lala who I mentioned earlier I know Annie she's fantastic and she talks about this and I think it's really important, which is the difference between signal and story.

51:30And the signal is whatever feels off in my nervous system. And I'm like, something's not quite right. This doesn't feel congruent. Something's not quite right. Where I get myself into trouble, where we all get ourselves into trouble, if you're anything like me, is when you believe the story about what that signal is telling you. You know, you're making it up. This happened. This is happening. Totally. So, so if I make up a story that the reason I'm getting this signal is because Emmy's out there making out with someone, right? Like that. You're making up a story. Then I'm making up a story. And then I get myself all in a tizzy.

52:02But here's what might be happening. She might be having fun with someone and maybe she's like has energy with somebody. And I can feel that. Like maybe that's something. Or maybe it's just that she's out late and she's having fun and I feel FOMO. It doesn't actually matter what it is. So I say now, trust the signal, not the story. And when you bring the signal to your partner, hey I feel crazy even saying this and I feel kind of embarrassed like this is how I would bring I feel embarrassing this by the way this is not how I brought things to her at the beginning yeah you got you got to her like were you on having fun yeah yeah yeah so I would be like uh I'm embarrassed to say this but can you just tell me if there was anything up with you and this person I feel like kind of weird about it and she would be like no but I can see what you mean like we have you know we're we're really friendly with each other yeah we have fun we have fun like yeah yeah and then i can be like okay i knew i was feeling something and because she's not telling she's not telling me i'm completely wrong i can act that part of me actually softens and i can find the truth and where my signal was but that the story was total bs yeah and that's been really important so i don't have a great answer for where would i be i think the truth is i am i have i've been i put myself in therapy when i was in junior high like I have been on the healing path my whole life and I imagine will be.

53:24It's a journey forever. It's a journey forever. Even if I feel more peaceful and more whole, I'm going to have to heal for the rest of my life. It doesn't mean I've got it all figured out. I just feel safe within myself at this season of life. And I want to continue that healing journey. And I think that's an important part for us. Again, we go back to the emotional regulation training. It is a constant training. And I'm certain that when my two daughters come out, there's going to have to be a whole new things that come out of me that I'm like, I need to learn how to regulate in a different way.

53:58Like, I might think I have like something figured out in the last couple of years where I feel good right now, but - Try being exhausted. They're both crying at the same time. You just got home from a long day of work. 100%. And I know that I lack patience when I don't sleep. I just lack patience. I'm an entrepreneur. You know, it's like, I want it now. Let's go. Yeah. So I know like my weaknesses and I know there's probably other weaknesses I don't know that'll come out. And it's going to be a constant journey of healing and learning tools and learning how to use those tools to regulate my nervous system in a new season of life with a new structure.

54:32And I'm grateful for me personally, I'm grateful that I went on this journey, I guess 12 years ago to be able to have some baseline now before having kids. because if I would have had kids 20 years ago, I would have been a mess. I didn't have the tools. I would have been a mess. You know what I mean? And so it's a journey. Well, part of the work that I do is MDMA-assisted couples therapy research. And I do it with Columbia University and MAPS and Rick Doblin and a few other people in clinics. And part of what we're doing and what MDMA does and why I think it's such an interesting compound to research is because it helps you regulate.

55:19And so for people who really struggle regulating, who have had trauma and so their nervous system is consistently in fight, flight, freeze, fawn, right? MDMA can give you an imprint of what it's like to actually feel regulated with a partner. I think this is what – to me, MDMA is sort of like the cutting edge way the couples therapy field is going. It's why I'm so involved in the research is because what it's – when our amygdala is so fired up and for many of us who come from trauma, this is our base state is just triggered and dysregulated. Like that's a lot of people walking around and something very, very little will set them off.

56:04MDMA gives this imprint because it's kind of dumping you know on a very basic level of serotonin and oxytocin and dopamine and it's dumping these chemicals that allow you to feel good and calm so you can be in a tense conversation with a partner and not feel that same tension that you feel that same dysregulation you feel all the time so it gives you an imprint of what it's actually like to be regulated in a difficult conversation. Now, you can't be on MDMA forever, so you're going to have to learn the tools. But for some of us, we've never even had the chance to understand what it's like. And so anyhow, I wanted to mention that because I think it's a - That's interesting.

56:43So kind of the wave of the future in couples work. I'm curious, you triggered something in me that I remember from my past where I used to, I don't know if I was extremely jealous or just like average male jealousy when I was in previous, like, you know, teenager twenties and relationships where I'd feel like, oh, my girlfriend's going out and like, she's at a club or she's like with some older guys at some like meetup or whatever it might be. And having that jealousy or insecurity or lack of like, oh, is she not telling me something? That's something that I had for a long time. And I don't know if I had it more or less than other guys, but just, I would say normal jealousy, right?

57:22It's like normal jealousy of, of an immature, weak person, I guess that doesn't have. Which by the way, a lot of people won't say they're jealous. They just think they're angry. Continue. Yeah. I mean, I, I didn't, I didn't, I think back then I wouldn't say I was jealous, but I was just like, but I can. Angry or annoying or frustrated or defensive. Whatever it was, but I can, I can admit my weakness of being jealous for most of my life. And then something triggered in me when I was in my, how old was I? Probably 34, maybe it was, maybe that's 35 i must have been 33 34 it's almost like one day it just switched off of me i don't know how to explain it where i was jealous and then i wasn't and i was in a relationship and part of me i think part of me knew the relationship i was in wasn't going to work and i'd been trying for a couple years we were trying to make it work and going back and forth and on and off and this whole thing and it was almost like i knew i wasn't jealous anymore in this relationship i didn't have jealousy and for whatever reason like maybe it's because i knew the relationship was going to work out but i was trying and i was trying to make it work but i didn't want to fail but i also knew in my mind it wasn't going to work so i stopped like caring about if there was a guy hanging out or something flirting with her i was just like i don't care I'm not jealous anymore.

58:46Then the next relationship I was in, I was with someone who had a lot of attention from men. Let's just say that around the world, lots. Celebrities, you know, billion, I like lots of men just like this person. And I still had zero jealousy and she didn't like it. She didn't like that. I never was jealous and I haven't had jealousy since then, right? It's It's probably been, I don't know, eight years or something. And again, I'm with an amazing woman who's like admired by lots of men now and who's done like, you know, kissing scenes or whatever. And I don't get jealous. Is there something wrong with me by not having jealousy anymore?

59:26And what's your thoughts on it when people have jealousy in a relationship? What is that signaling to the other person when they are jealous of who they are or what they're doing?

59:41so I think this can be addressed twofold. It can be addressed on the personal level, whatever self-love, self-worth, you know, that's kind of how we think about jealousy. It's a wound in me that makes me react towards you. Yeah. But I don't think that's the full story. What I often actually, the more that I see this, the more that I'm tracking this and working with couples and the more that I understand jealousy or the lack of jealousy as part your work, but part your partner's energy. I believe that too. And if your partner actually has clean, clean energetic boundaries, is how I might say it, then there's nothing in you that's pointing to anything leaky.

1:00:26Like you're not, you're not getting hooked by a leak. Yes. And so I think we give a lot of credit to people who aren't jealous as they're so confident I think we give less credit to the partner of the person who's not jealous That they're actually doing a good job The other partner I had did not do a good job with that Oh really? Oh they were like But you said you didn't really want to be in that relationship After that one After the previous one before my marriage So two relationships ago That you did want to be in a relationship with her Yes I mean I was in a relationship with her I wasn't trying And she didn't do a good job Of holding her boundaries It was like the worst job Of like energetic boundaries with men And you weren't And you weren't And I still wasn't jealous Okay She was also on OnlyFans And you And I didn't have any jealousy And you knew you wanted to be with her Or are you kidding?

1:01:13I wanted to be with her I was trying to make it work Because in the first year It felt really good The second year It switched into power struggle Right? And which was the year Where you were like I'm not jealous Both years? The whole time The whole time Yeah Because then she started playing she started playing time she started playing games of like oh this guy reached out to me and i gave him my number go that's weird why would you why don't you say no she's like i was just trying to be nice with this and that and be like okay all right whatever like it for whatever reason you saw i think it was more like if this doesn't work out i know i'm gonna be okay if you're trying to if you want to be with someone else go be with someone else just do it like we don't have to be together so it was more of like i don't like i'm gonna know either way like if you're going to be with someone I'm going to find out if you're going to cheat on me I'm going to find out if you're texting someone I'm going to eventually find out so I'm not worried I'm not putting my energy on worrying if this happening it's going to come out eventually and it just didn't it's not that it didn't bother me but I wasn't being jealous what was the bothering then I wasn't I mean we were in alignment on our relationship we were in conflict a lot we were in conflict we were in alignment we didn't have values our vision a lot so you had a reaction to it it just wasn't jealousy yeah i wasn't jealous i was like frustrated like we were in conflict but it wasn't jealousy yeah yeah i and with martha as well again she's like a big movie star famous and i just never have any jealousy how are her energetic she's really great at it she doesn't allow men into her life she doesn't nothing will creep in yeah she is an energetic force field yeah so she's doing part of the work a hundred percent yeah but i still don't have you know i was in When she was like, when we were first dating and she was like, whatever, I went on a date with another guy because we weren't like exclusive or whatever.

1:02:58She was like, oh, I saw a guy last night or this. I still didn't have jealousy. Yeah. Listen, I was like, okay, like if this does, if that's what you want, then cool. And if that really is your stance that I'm going to find out eventually, if I, if I, if I find out, I find out I'm going to be okay on my own. It doesn't, it's okay. It doesn't mean I'm not going to like it. I may not like it. You know, it's like, it may be sad if we didn't work out, but I may have a reaction to it. Yeah, of course. but I was just, I just haven't had it for a long time. Yeah. I mean, listen, I, I, it feels amazing.

1:03:26It's, it's, it's very, I don't feel, I don't feel like, I don't feel like it's draining my soul anymore. It was a very hard one for me and it's not hard anymore. Yeah. I mean, I can, I, it shows up sometimes, but not nearly like it used to. And you're right. Like it's a very draining. It's time consuming. Yes. And your nervous system is on a high alert all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is hypervigilance. It's like a... Yeah. Yeah. And that may... Listen, I don't think this is a one-size-fits-all answer either. I think that part of it could have been that you had... You started to develop more confidence and you...

1:04:03Part of it is, I truly believe, and this is the part I just feel like we talk less about, is the other person and what they're doing. She does great. But in a... But in a relation... And part of it, like, there's a part of me that is hearing... I don't know if this is true, so I can... I'll just check this with you, but it feels like a little bit... like maybe a part of you in that other relationship was like a little bit apathetic to like, you're either going to love me for who I am or not. And like, if you don't, it's like, there's like a flavor of. Yeah. And I was also trying to like, just accept like, okay, like you can do what you want.

1:04:34It's not going to bother me. As long as you're not cheating on me, like if guys are hitting on you, then this is where it is. You know, guys were hitting on you before. As long as you're not entertaining it, then I don't have an issue because I can't control if some guy hits on you. Now you have to create the block. But you said that she wasn't great at creating the blocks. That's, I think, the thing. She wasn't. Or more, she was more like, you know, I mean, yeah, I mean, it still didn't bother me for some reason. Because I think I was just like, if this doesn't work out, I know I'm safe with me.

1:05:01Yeah. I know I'll be okay. I know I'll be in a good relationship in the future. I know, like, I have options. I'm not going to be alone forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, which is probably what I used to feel like. Like, I'm going to be alone. So I need to make sure this works. And I can't be alone. Yeah. And I think that was probably more my fear. And I think as I got into like my early 30s and started the healing journey is also after the healing journey began, I was like, I'm going to be okay. If this doesn't work out, I will, maybe it's not, I'm not going to enjoy it, but I will be okay in the future.

1:05:31That I think is a, it's a huge piece that if you know in your heart of hearts that no matter what happens, you're going to be okay. It will, you'll be better able to set boundaries. That's what I've been able to do. Yes. Yeah. That's what I'm going to do. I'm just like, no, this is my boundary. And if that doesn't work, then we don't need to be together. Like, it's not like I'm saying that nonstop, but it's like, we need to create agreements on alignment. And if there's something that's really crossing a boundary, I'm going to tell you, if that's a deal breaker for you, then maybe we can come to an agreement somehow.

1:06:06But it's like, I don't know. We just can't do this anymore. But for somebody who doesn't actually believe that they're going to be okay on their own, that their world literally will end. Or truly, some people have gotten themselves into situations where they are literally in danger if they leave. Of course. Or they're on reliance or they're in children with this person or they're financially responsible. There are so many reasons. All these things, yeah. Why people stay when they know they should leave. Yeah, of course. And when you have a hook like any of those. Oh, yeah, it's tough. It's really hard to set boundaries and to speak the things that need to be spoken, even kindly, because your safety is literally on the line.

1:06:52That's true. That's a whole other episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like navigating that. I know, I know. Where's the best place for us to support you, follow you, connect with you all alone? You can go to my website, beavoce.com, B-A-Y-A-V-O-C-E. and I'm at Bay of Oce on Instagram is mostly where I hang out. But on my website, I have a couple of resources. I have a free repair PDF that you can get, which has a ton of scripts for all sorts of conflicts. So that's a good one. And I also have another worksheet on the change and effort mismatch. So for people who are in that kind of change and accept dance, if they want some support there, that's also free.

1:07:32And then I'll be launching a group for repair. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Caroline on my team, she downloaded the, uh, the scripts and she goes, these are amazing. So make sure you guys download the scripts, uh, on the website for sure. And your content is great online. So make sure people follow you on Instagram and everywhere else. So, um, they, I want to ask two final questions before I ask you, I want to acknowledge you for a moment for the journey you've been on. It sounds like you've been on a heck of a journey of relationships and we're still, all of us are on the journey. It's not like you've arrived or I've arrived or something.

1:08:04We're both on the journey. But I want to acknowledge you for putting your wisdom out there because you have gone through a lot of challenges in conflict, resolution, in intimacy and relationships. And I acknowledge you for diving deeper in researching it for your own personal healing journey, but then also sharing that wisdom with the world. And I think it's allowing a lot of people to find more peace, more tools, more resources and support so that they don't think they're crazy or they don't think it's all the, you know, they're the only ones dealing with this, that there are a lot of people struggling in relationships and you're providing these tools to simplify.

1:08:39And I'm assuming these are tools you wish you had 20 years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago. And so I acknowledge you for using your pain for part of your purpose now to serve the younger version of yourself that needed this and hopefully healing that version of you and helping other people heal as well. It's been really cool to watch your stuff and, and getting to know you now for the second time. we just met recently but um this was a question i ask everyone it's called the three truths so imagine hypothetically you live you get to live for the rest of your life as long as you want but it's the last day on earth for you as many years away as you want it to be you get to live uh the exact life you want all the blessings and beautiful journey and creations you get to make and relationships you have but at the end of the last day you have you can only leave behind three truths and everything that you've ever created has to go with you to the next place.

1:09:32Or we don't have access to your content or your videos or books or anything you ever create is gone. What would those three truths, three lessons that you've learned in life that you would leave behind? Bending over backwards in relationship is not love. Contorting and pretzeling is not the thing that will get you what you hope the love that you hope that's one another is

1:10:08friendship is one of the most important investment investments you'll ever make there's one of my favorite quotes and i don't know who to attribute it to i forgot but it's something along the lines of the tragedy of getting older is there's less time to make old friends and i have friends from when i was one i have friends from when i was five i have a group of friends from elementary and junior high and high school and we still are deeply connected it's uh they bring me back to myself in a way that is um it's so powerful so those you know

1:10:48friendships are and and just to say as a caveat I think we're going to start hearing a lot more about friendship breakups and about how to navigate conflict in friendships I think it's starting boundaries and friendships yeah and it's and it's really just the same thing but but I don't think we we I don't think we are prepared for friendship breakups in the way that we're you know we oh man this is a whole another episode because I started doing this the last two years and went on as many people as I could where I was like I need to create boundaries in a conscious way and I realized okay this some people are brought stronger together some people's like oh we're just not meant for each other in this season of life and that's okay you know it's like we can move on you don't have to try to hold on to something yeah that once was where we're at right now but this is a whole other episode I I know.

1:11:40I know. I know. And I'm with you. I've done this. I've had a similar process and it's been. Yeah, it's intense. Intense. Yes. That's number two. And then that's number two. Okay. And number three is don't let anybody tell you not to go to sleep. Sleep a lot. Sleep a lot. Get your rest because you need it. And you're a way better version of yourself when you do. That's some good advice. What's the, what's the, what's that line that everyone said, You can sleep when you die. Like I think that is total BS. I do everything better when I have slept and it's the way that I have access to my creativity and love and warmth.

1:12:19And it's the way that I access my essence. And I don't have full access to my essence when I am not rested. That's good. Good wisdom. Final question. What's your definition of greatness?

1:12:34Being willing to look in the mirror at what is yours to own.

1:12:48and then admitting that to the people around you who've been hurt. By the way, you may have shown up even if it was unintentional because it probably was. And then being kind and gentle with yourself in that process. Wow. That was beautiful. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you. Wow. That's a good one. I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life, and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy.

1:13:38I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

1:14:17I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I wanna remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

1:14:41Thank you.