Heart-to-Heart Conversations: Zane Lowe's Approach to Unveiling Artists' Personal Stories EP 1452

0:01Calling all conscious achievers who are seeking more community and connection. I've got an invitation for you. Join me at this year's Summit of Greatness this September 7th through 9th in my hometown of Columbus, Ohio to unleash your true greatness. This is the one time a year that I gather the greatness community together in person for a powerful transformative weekend. People come from all over the world and you can expect to hear from inspiring speakers like Inky Johnson, Jaspri Singh, Vanessa Van Edwards, Jen Sincero, and many more. You'll also be able to dance your heart out to live music, get your body moving with group workouts, and connect with others at our evening socials.

0:44So if you're ready to learn, heal, and grow alongside other incredible individuals in the greatness community, then you can learn more at lewishouse.com slash summit 2023. Make sure to grab your ticket, invite your friends, and I'll see you there. True art is when the inner voice and the outer voice meet in harmony. That's what true art is. And I don't just mean singing. I mean, any form of expression, writing, you know, when you write a piece of literature, that's just like so mind blowing and moving. That's that meeting that, that or that. And it just blows. Welcome to the school of greatness.

1:21My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

1:42With all the interviews you've done, what would you say are maybe three big takeaways that you've found? Maybe not from the guest who was inspiring, but just the process. The big takeaways from the last two decades of all these conversations for you, what have you learned from this experience? Well, first of all, that as much as we hold artists and people we admire who inspire us through expression or performance of some capacity, that it's a very human experience for them. We put posters on our wall where they want our chest, sing this. In music, we sing their lyrics back at them at concerts.

2:25We are invested. I think as I've moved from being only a fan to being a fan with privileges like this, doing this kind of work, that it's a very human experience, the creation of the art. I'm quite into that idea of blurring the line between deity and humanity. Right. Because you meet all these big artists, who are kind of godlike to a lot of their fans yeah and i think we take it really far as people because we look we're always looking for something to be inspired by something to um um and give us a purpose you know or a reason to get up or a reason to work harder or do something with more emotion or be more open or even just to heal a heart sometimes it it breaks a heart sometimes it heals a heart whatever and these are very in a lot of cases through the art through the lens of art it's magical it's very spiritual experience um and so i i always try to preserve the magic of the music but recognize the human that made it so that's that's that's definitely one yeah um and i think that a knock-on from that is that uh you know um i used to go into a lot of conversations with artists with a with a we were talking about this before we were rolling with this kind of idea that I needed to know everything before I sat down.

3:46And I think it's better to not think about stuff as much as feel things. So I really come into this kind of experience now with a feeling rather than a list of questions or a roadmap. I try to take it out of the brain and put it back in the heart. As corny as that sounds, it's sort of really where I sit. And it It just means that I'm thinking and feeling with a real sort of sense of appreciation for the art and appreciation for the person rather than just the text or the information that's being presented to me. So I listen a lot more than I used to. You didn't used to in the first, what, decade or something?

4:24I was told outright. I did some work with somebody because I felt like I was getting stuck in a rut. so I went and spoke to someone um who was probably not unlike yourself you know was was had a lot of really good insight and helps people get over humps whether it's athletes or performers or anyone who has to perform to something it could be business whatever they kind of give you this sort of advice the sense of where you might be kind of um ignoring the obvious next steps to grow and um she said to me you know you don't you don't listen enough and I that was really hard for me to hear because I wasn't listening enough.

5:00It's like right there in front of me, like I immediately want to block it out. And she said, you know, a lot of times in conversation, people present you with something really interesting. It's there to go deeper on and you either scoot past it or you try to protect them from overexposing themselves. And really, you just need to let people be people. And so that was another thing which was really valuable for me was to really just acknowledge the conversation and be present enough to hear what someone is saying and have the confidence that I had the ability to move in that direction with little to no preparation, that the preparation was in me because I felt where I was.

5:35Does that make sense? Why do you think you weren't listening that well? Oh, fear. Just fear of being caught out, not having the right question, not knowing where to go. Silence terrified me in conversation with cameras and microphones. Yeah, because I'd be like, wow, it looks like I'm unprepared. It was all very ego-driven, And I think looking back on it, I need to look good. Yeah. I had it all around the wrong way. I was like, to me, it was almost like a performance. It's not a performance, you know? I only realized that now. I think at the time I was like, no, I'm just, I'm doing the work. You know, I'm as into this conversation as, as, as anyone can be.

6:10And then I think looking back on it, I was just, um, just kind of focused on how I was coming across or all the wrong things. And it's like, dude, just be a, be a, a sponge and be a conduit, you know? So what year is this when you kind of started to reflect on it and start to get that support or coaching or feedback? Well, I always felt like I did good work. I wouldn't have continued to create more opportunities or be given more opportunities unless I didn't do the good work. And I never watched my stuff back. So I was low on the edge either. I never did either. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like a, that's not an ego thing for me.

6:42I don't go, yeah, amazing question. Like, I just. I'm the man with that question. You know, I mean, I'm just, I love the moment and then I leave it to someone else to figure out, right? and so i was never worried about that about not doing great work up to a point it's just that i felt like i was uninspired in my in my line of questioning the conversations weren't inspiring me i wasn't inspiring the subjects with the people in front of me because you were still interviewing the most inspiring artists it's all still happening at the time yeah i can tell you exactly when it was what happened it was when i launched when we launched apple music and i was trying to help build this radio model for the streaming era and help the streaming model get started and on the steepest learning curve of my professional life and trying to deal with relocating a family to LA there's just so much going on that the thing that got me there in the first place was the thing I was least focused on and so eventually that thing kicked back up and people were like well let's do the interview things like let's get you back in that in that mic uh on that mic and and I just wasn't prepared for it and that's when I was like look I need to I need to find at least an hour a week where I can not deal with all the other things going on and just find out what this is saying to me and it may it may be that i'm i don't have it i'm not good at it or i don't want to do it anymore but once you know this this person this era unlocked that aspect of it um it meant that i could actually manage all these other priorities and do this at the same time because i just had to simplify my process and just come in with a sense of trying to feel what the artist is saying and feel where they are in their life and just be as human about it as possible.

8:21It's interesting you say this. I have a similar mindset around conversations and interviews, and I think it is more of an art than anything. And I'll have a bunch of questions here that are pre-prepared that I'll glance at, or if I need to go and look at, I will, but I almost never look at the questions. It's always what's on the heart and mind of the guests as you come in. The feeling we have, you know, right away we gave each other a hug and you're like, that was a nice embrace. I go, want another one? Let's do it. And we're talking about New Zealand and other things. And, and for me, it's always about starting with a question, which I feel like is on their heart and then allowing it to evolve.

9:00Yeah. I don't even, here's the thing, right? I never even know what my first question is going to be anymore. Like I try to get to a place where it's as immediate as possible. Like whatever the last person thing somebody said or how they walked in the room or how they reacted to this or how they drank their drink or whatever. I'm just searching for where we can begin right here, right now. I saw that with the Harry Styles interview he did. I think it was about a year ago or than the last year. I think the first question was, why'd you paint your nails? Yeah, because he was sitting there and I noticed it two seconds before we started.

9:27You're like, let's start with this. I like the color. Would you get that? Yeah, let's start with this. Why'd you do this? Yeah. And so for me, it's just, you know this dude, this started when we met. so it's the pre-show is the show yeah and it's good it's good if we're analyzing a process and there are people weirdly enough that are interested in what this side of things is it always blows my mind like if someone comes up to me goes i really love your interviews i don't know what to do with that because i'm like i'm not the most like i'm just getting you the info right that's all i'm trying to do right so i take it now and i appreciate it and i've done it long enough to not be about that i'm i'm just grateful for the acknowledgement but the truth is like you want to know your subject to the point where it's respectful i can't interview someone unless I hear the music or I watch the film or read the book to some degree or know what the subject's about.

10:10But then that just has to sit there. And then I just, if I've got the knowledge in my head and I figured like, I understand what the human has achieved, then I just want to come at it from a place of feeling. It's really about the feeling. Like if I can't feel, if I'm not in a place where I'm open enough to feel what you're trying to achieve with this music right now, then I'm not prepared to sit down and talk to you about it. Yeah. And you may not be interested enough or excited enough to dive into it if you don't know that, have that feeling. Yeah. I mean, I get emotional in these conversations too, because I know when we talk about that song, what it's about, because it made me feel that way.

10:42And maybe you're bringing up things to me, which some people may think is a bit indulgent, but I love a two-way conversation. I don't, I'm not a Q and A guy. I don't, I'm not like a, thank you. Next question. My next question is like, if I can't have it so that we're sharing and opening up together, at least, and I try to get the line right. And sometimes I overstep it and I overshare a bit too much and my editors are a bit generous with my take on things but man I'm you know been doing this a long time like I did that junket thing it's not it's not fun yeah you got to be able to share a two-way street I'm curious about how uh you know a kid from New Zealand was able to eventually go to London and then come to Apple Music and be the go-to guy for the biggest musicians in the world to essentially come to first before they do any other interviews.

11:33How does that even happen? Why you? What makes you and your story unique that has allowed this to occur? Because it didn't happen by accident. It's not like someone just plucked you out because they're like, oh, this guy could be good. There was a path that you followed, whether it was deliberate or undeliberate, and you just kept showing up. But how did that happen? I mean you know what it's like it's still happening so it's hard to know when you're still kind of like enjoying the experience and you're still in your life maybe there'll be a time when you sort of look back and reflect on it a little bit um I you know I because it's been what eight years in Apple Music now yeah yeah we're coming up nine and then before that it was like nearly 13 at the BBC and before that it was in TV and then it was so that so yeah I mean I could put it in a nutshell and it could seem like a really quick short journey from Auckland to here but there's so many moments of just luck and realizing there's a moment that you should that you should take like live in that moment and make the most of it and and work i mean it's true you know the you know the hours and hours you spend doing what you love it's not work but it's still effort and the effort pays off so you know that equation is is is well documented and and you know this i mean you deal in greatness you've spoken to great people i'm sure that you know everyone kind of lives by the same principles to some degree which is find something that you love be solely focused on it to the point where it's obsessive take your opportunities graciously and with real gratitude work be good to people right learn to say no make sure that the yes is the right yes all these things are kind of the roadmaps there for people to use now what's unique for everybody is you know how you put those pieces together how it shapes your picture and the only thing i know that's been a constant in my life is that i really am just a real fan like of the music of the artist i'm just a fan really like the fan like everyone's you are the super fan i'm in my mind i'm like i am a massive fan of music i'm not going to put myself above anybody else but i really love it and it really moves me and it really generates an enormous amount of energy in me like if energy is tangible it comes out of me when music is playing that i love like emotion like i was driving here listening to this playlist i made yesterday for queens from the queens the stone age from their back catalog but it's not hits like there's not one single in there it's all just album songs they're just driving music right it's just like mexicola and turning on the screw and just like someone's in the wolf and just all this stuff that's just so heavy and it's like when i'm driving listening to that like i'm in the band really yeah it's like it's very very sort of tangible for me and so i think if you believe in the laws of attraction which i certainly do um if you love something that much and when you listen to it you feel like you're inside it or a part of it then you maybe eventually become a part of the process wow i mean i've seen it over and over again i mean you know it was i want to get it right i'm sure it was janelle mona who told me a story about walking into a room to play a show that stevie wonder was also playing and he was sound checking her song when she walked in and we talked about the law of attraction from being a young person a fan of stevie to that moment of realizing that stevie was playing her song this is this happens all the time all over the world in lots of different ways right how else do you end up playing football on the same team as your heroes just that's how it goes inspiration breeds this kind of attraction so um she had this really cool take on it, which was that if someone inspires you enough that they end up altering the course of your life in their direction, then it goes without saying that at some point you will come face to face with that person.

15:46And what may happen in the case of Stevie and Janelle is that that person is then reflecting your version of them upon themselves. So Stevie hears in Janelle's music what Stevie knows about himself. Oh, man. I get the chills thinking about this. Why he's drawn to that song to play it because it's a mirror image in many respects. That is beautiful. That's the beauty of connection. That's the beauty of why we, as young people, find people that make us want to go and train harder and learn instruments and make beats for 12 hours a day or learn to rap or whatever. Who was the first inspiration for you or the first couple in music when you were kind of growing up and you heard something like, oh, I want to learn this instrument or I want to get into this or I want to be the DJ because of this person.

16:29Yeah, I wanted to be in all kinds of bands. I mean, I literally would create a fantasy world when I would be at home as a young kid. I'd set up these drum kits made of old thick phone books and I'd turn the edges of the cardboard off and that would be my hi-hat with chopsticks and I'd make these crazy drum kits and I'd just play Led Zeppelin for like two hours or I'd pretend I was in Depeche mode. Like, I mean, the imagination was my refuge because my reality was at best pretty quiet, Auckland, 80s. Chill, chill. Not much going on. Not much going on, sports and school. And then I also came from this kind of pretty difficult divorce background in terms of like my parents had a rough end to their relationship at a time when divorce wasn't common.

17:15And so at an age when I was very, I was open to that trauma. I was in the moment of trying to establish my identity. And it was a really classic sort of divorce story, which has gone on hundreds of millions of times. Who knows? Billions of times around the world where something happens in your life and it attaches itself to you. And so my way through that was music. I would just be in the band. your own band like in your imagination then like you know i am in those minutes sure like you know that was your escape yeah it's my escape it was my way of just imagining what life would be like if i was in that band and how wonderful it would be and that's really where the idea of wanting to be more than just a music listener and i guess i began this kind of journey of wanting to get as close to the music as I can.

18:10This is fascinating because there's so many great musicians and artists out there. And I feel like, you know this way better than I do, but I feel like a lot of the music is created from a place of yearning to want something, yearning for love or something they wanted or escaping pain. Do you think it's possible for great artists to produce and create amazing music that is connected around the world without some type of trauma or lack? Well, I think the question is, does anyone go through life without some kind of trauma? I mean, I think that I've never met anyone who could literally sit there and go, my life was perfect from start to finish.

19:04I think that the desire to express yourself through the arts often comes from not feeling like you have a sort of natural pathway to explaining those things or figuring those things out. and often it's just a way to communicate and to express yourself in ways that conventional communication just doesn't work for you or the environment isn't there for you. So yeah, I think that a lot of the arts, a lot of people who make art or express themselves and it's across the board, not just in music. I mean, I know a few people who work in canvas, work in sculpting, work in more sort of tactile arts, it's absolutely their way of seeing the world.

19:49Why do you think it's easier to create art and express yourself than it is to sit across someone, open your heart, be vulnerable and have a conversation eye to eye? Oh, that's a great question. I mean, I can only speak from my experience. I didn't have the tools. I think you have to know yourself really well to be able to express yourself really well. It's scary. And I think that the fear kicks in because you're like, well, what if it doesn't come out the way I mean it? Or what if I don't really understand what I'm trying to achieve here? I mean, I'm still figuring out. I mean, that's the beauty of life, right?

20:17We're all still figuring it out. and I think we're so results obsessed that we forget that actually it's the learning as we established here this is about learning from each other and I'm not prepared I'm prepared to learn from you so it's like I think we have to really be kinder to ourselves on that level I think very quickly at a young age it's like competitive sports this is all healthy by the way but competitive sports education grades results results, results, results, results. And I think maybe part of where we're going in the future, hopefully, is that we can actually start to tandem that with this idea of what the inner voice is saying.

20:58Because true art is when the inner voice and the outer voice meet in harmony. That's what true art is. And I don't just mean singing, I mean any form of expression. Writing. You know, when you write a piece of literature that's just like so mind-blowing and moving, that's that meeting that, that, or that, and it just flows. And that's when people talk about the magic is that's the intangible that's the magic place where great art gets created is is when um we you know somehow for some reason the stuff that gets in the way gets switched off you know and i think when we're young and we don't we don't know how to do that not even when we're young when we don't know how to do that or ignore it it's never off and if it's not off how do you express yourself in other means sure right how do you open the lanes for the art to flow for the music the inspiration and things to flow it's all just channels right and when you were going through this kind of period of time with the divorce and your parents, that's when you started to lean into the music and lean into this world.

21:54I was always moved by it and I was always motivated by it. I think every kid is. I think rhythm is a very natural place for us to land. When we're figuring out what the world is, it's a pretty good place to start. Dancing, things like that, it's a natural form of expression and joy. So I think if it takes hold, it's because it's serving a purpose it became a purpose for me it became a purpose to get up it became a purpose to leave the house and walk to school put my headphones on my intention that day was not to hurry to school my intention was to be able to listen to music on the way to school wow what year is this through school and listen to music on the way sure what years was it was it i don't know in the 80s i mean you know probably like you know i'm whenever i got my first walkman you know probably 10 11 or something like that i'm figuring out like what do i need in order to um just go somewhere that's mine just my place um i still get an enormous amount of emotional satisfaction out of putting headphones on on a plane or on a walk or something um because i know i'm the only one having that experience it's entirely me and you know that thing sometimes when you listen to music and it's so it's so immersive that in your head everyone can hear what you hear and then every now and then just for fun you'll pause and you'll hear the birds or the cars or everyone's just going about their life talking like i love that because there's something very comforting about knowing that life is just moving on around it's a really good reminder that everyone's just doing the best they can and getting on with life right and you know music just helps me do that it's just it continues to be this amazing place that allows me to feel things that um are intangible i don't know how to i don't know how to access those things sometimes without the help of music yeah was there ever an aha moment for you when you were playing you know growing up or when you started interviewing people where you were like i cannot believe i'm playing with or interviewing this individual that i've been a fan of for so long oh there was so many i mean from a really early age because when i was working in new zealand you know there wasn't a huge amount of outlet for artists to kind of do press or whatever but eventually that kind of all come through um so yeah i mean before i even went to london i had this kind of show tape of like you know i mean i talked about it within the other day i mean we're on our 20th plus interview now nearly 30 almost 30 years i've been talking to billy corbin and i remember in 1994 sitting on a grassy bank in oakland yeah the big the first ever big day out where the band were playing just after Siamese Dream came out that came out they were on like 4 30 in the afternoon and I'll never forget it and like I knew that album but I didn't really but I sort of I kind of fell in love with him before I really got the band and that was a big thing for me like I interviewed him and just thought this guy is something about this guy is like he's just really um got some crazy vibe about him or about him and then I heard the music and I made the connection between the two and then that album has been my companion my whole life so that was crucial i mean being at radio one and getting that first jay-z conversation was a game changer what was that like just changed everything for me what year was that um well it actually was the second well the first one happened around blueprint three but the one that that really was the game changer was the second or third one which was around magma carter holy grail at abbey road and just yeah i it was the i reckon he was just so

25:49generous and thoughtful and unafraid of the questions and really willing to go there and just like he he'd made the decision to do it and so he came in without any armor on he didn't have some pr responses and yeah it fell away immediately it felt immediately like we could talk for hours and hours and hours and hours and we did we took like two hours and um i remember after that day like i was like okay yeah you can do this like you can right he was probably the biggest in the world at the time right and you can still and you can go into the room with him and um he just made me feel in that moment like it was a worth it was a worthwhile experience and you know it's different for you because you've built this amazing experience where people want to come into this room with you um you've established through really thoughtful great conversation and very smart kind of um sort of complementary branding and everything else so it's like oh i want to go on that like i was excited to be asked you know yeah i knew would be a great use of time for the for me at least um but most people start at least back in the day before podcasts were really the avenue you really came in on everybody else's sort of priority list and what you know you're a tool like you got to promote this record you got to you know ask these questions do this job it's so i was very i never felt like i really had much of a a role to play beyond kind of doing my job and the jay-z one was a big one for me where i felt like you know what beyond what the label needs what the bbc needs what the audience expects just that experience of me and this person i admire with like to such a degree it's a huge degree that was enough, it made me feel like you can do this.

27:38You can be of value to people in this environment. Did you ever have doubts before that or did you have insecurities when these artists would come in like, okay, I've got to deliver and what if they don't like me? Not just that, man. I mean, I think a lot of that was what drove some of my techniques was the fear that I had to prove myself, right? I had to leave and make an impression. All these things, it's just, dude, we just spend so much time focused on what if we fail that you forget that actually the reason you're there in the first place is because something inside of you believes that you can be of value, that you can succeed in whatever capacity others think is success.

28:15So we forget that and we bury that deep down within and that's why execution is so hard. That's why people make and don't execute. That's true. But it sounds like that gave you a big confidence boost and gave you more belief in yourself after that Jay-Z interview. Yeah, it's huge. And then everything kind of kicked off from there and it was like Kanye and then Eminem all within a sort of six month period. Really? I feel like that was sort of the moment when a chain of events sort of unfolded that ended up positioning me at Apple and moving to Los Angeles. Yeah. Was that, how much earlier was that before you moved to LA?

28:512012, 2013. So if you think about it - Two, three years before. Yeah, but if you think about it in terms of the conversations began in 2014, It really was only about a year. Wow. Because then I did Rick Rubin, who'd never done anything really on camera and hadn't done an interview, at least to my knowledge, in a long time. And now, obviously, Rick has built a beautiful, wonderful empire of conversations and books. And I mean, he just makes the world better by sharing his knowledge. But at the time, it just didn't seem to be what he was focused on. So we had this cool Shangri-La moment, and that was big.

29:20So that couple-year period, there's a lot of big, powerful conversations you got to have with people that really didn't open up. What do you think allowed you to be able to create those iconic conversations in that short period of time and allowed you to book them and for them to want to open up vulnerably and share? Well, Jay-Z is what allowed it. I mean, he's the one who said yes in the first place and he's the one who encouraged us to put it on YouTube, which I had no presence on YouTube. In fact, I was like, well, YouTube's for like short form comedy. And he was like, nah, we should put like this hour long interview up on YouTube, see if people like it and it was he really encouraged that um so we did that and then people watched it and then and kind of gave you the credibility the stamp of approval yeah he just was like i'm gonna do one or maybe two of these things i want everyone to see it um so put it where the audience is right valuable lesson put it where the audience is right this is about visibility i want people to know my music's out i want people to know what it's about right i've chosen you to have one of these rare conversations let's put it everywhere i'm like of course but at the time I'm being like super overly curatorial in the whole experience out of fear because I'm like what if I put my stuff on YouTube and people don't care right it's all that stuff and he just cut through it and was like no one has time for that put it up so he put it up it happened and then I mean there's luck involved there's timing involved but the truth is you know when I spoke to Kanye West around the Yeezus project which was a quite a significant conversation at the time where he really did a lot of talking to camera and really addressed primarily the fashion industry and kind of outlined what he was going to do.

31:00At the time, we had been putting breadcrumbs around the place for a while. I'd spent the last couple of years trying to kind of get to him and see if he didn't want to talk. Again, he had spoken for two or three years at that time. It was a bit of media blackout for him. He was just making music and wasn't really doing many interviews. But you were putting feelers out, sending it to his team or people he knew and say, hey, I'd love to have him on. We still do that. I mean, I made a call yesterday to try to get something teed up that won't happen for another year. Really? All the time. But now you're running up Apple Music.

31:36Isn't it easier to get these artists who want to promote a new album? It's not the point though. The point isn't to wait for them to want to promote the album. The point is to get the conversation that is of most value. Amen. Right? The point is to have the conversation with someone that is really impactful. And you can have that when there's something to promote. That's where it's our job to get behind the record or behind the project and get inside the human experience. But, you know, there's someone I've wanted to talk to my entire life. Who's Robin out of conversation with. Who's an older artist who is like a ghost cat, like Walter Mitty, like waiting for the cat to come out of the, you know.

32:13And I'm three, four conversations in several years into trying to make that happen. That's part of it. It's a fun part of it. I know. A lot of it's timing. There's been guests I've been trying to get for 10 years that I have been on top of the publicist that I'm... You know. I have five relationships with their closest. Like, I'm in the mix somehow, but it just hasn't worked timing-wise. Bill's the same. You know, Bill Simmons, a good friend of mine, he's the same. We talk about it. He's like, man, you know, I've waited years to get that one. It's like, it's just, it's how it goes. Right, he's massive.

32:42Yeah. by the way it's whack to rest on your laurels and anything you've achieved is done yeah it's not worth you got to keep got to keep building it done done it belongs it exists it's there you know neil young said something really cool to me when i talked to him and and i had this awesome conversation with him and rick rubin and neil's neil young said to me um i tried to ask him about harvest and he was like yeah you know i'll give you like a minute about harvest but anything beyond that you gotta have to ask that guy and i'm like who's that guy he's like that guy who made that out and he's still back there just gotta go find him and i'm like well how do i find him he's like i don't know go back there somewhere back there he's like there's been thousands of me i don't know what that guy thinks about harvest anymore i know what i think and i'll give you a soundbite on it but i'm thinking about this today right now that's cool that's cool i'm curious about this is fascinating i love hearing this from someone who also does interviews because i don't have a lot of people that do similar things as me on here which is fascinating this might get you in a little trouble but and i know every artist you've had on has been inspiring in their own way oh it's the list it's the who's the most it's not the who's the most it's the because everyone will ask me like who's your favorite guest and it's it's actually i am obviously exactly right i tell you not because of me because i'm the one today right now yeah and it's not a favorite guest uh question because i don't think that's fair yeah uh but the three artists that really spoke to you, it may be in an emotional way.

34:11I guess they all do, obviously, but maybe it's something that was on your heart and mind that season of your life where they said something that really spoke to you. Maybe it connected to you with your family or your career or something from your past or where they said something or their energy or their presence that day was really memorable for you. And of course, every artist you've had on is amazing and talented and great, but this top three artists, moments, or memories in those interviews, if you could share. I mean, I can't do a top three because I've been doing it, like you say, 30 years.

34:51I mean, I don't have the fuel to get me back that far to remember. I'd run out around 2012. Sure, sure. You know what I mean? I've got to go back to 1997. It's a lot. but just a few moments yeah yeah yeah i mean look you know i mean dude i mean i i i had i i had to draw my eyes the other day i was having this really deep conversation with with someone in it and and they talked about bottoming out and with josh mcqueens and what it is to find the courage to carry on and that really that hit me right um but i think in terms of sort of i mean my tom york the last time your conversation i had is was one of the very few times i've ever watched anything i've I've been a part of back in full.

35:41Because I'd waited my whole life as a fan to have that kind of unobstructed, pure conversation with him.

35:52We'd had good conversations in the past and very awkward ones in the 90s and the 2000s when Radiohead were just holding on. They were just holding on, right? Because the whole world was like, what does Radiohead think? and they're like we're just holding on just trying to make the best art we can you know interviews are not our friend you know um but that was a really for me it was a it was wrapped i had very little sleep i had no sleep i had the worst jet lag ever some some reason i found myself in a total tailspin i'd flown in the day before from la to london it's not a good jet lag i um i had stayed up till like seven in the morning just spinning out about this conversation i got about two hours sleep woke up it was a morning conversation which was good it was good because I actually had a tailwind of like you just gotta do it had a couple of very strong cups of coffee had another one at the pub which was they just closed down for us sat down he sat down and he was just an amazing form that's great very generous with me and so that to me was like a a moment and other artists have talked to me about that moment that was a moment for me when um it was emotional for me because I just had been waiting to have a just this really genuine and it's all on the table we can talk about it conversation with him and he was really generous with me and very enthusiastic to be there it was beautiful and i was so scared and it turned out to be the opposite that was beautiful i i think probably when when hayley williams and i had our first real proper deep conversation about therapy and about the work that she was doing at the time and may still be i mean you never stop doing the work and um and I was getting back into my therapy and everything else there was a we had we had some really great conversations that was very they were very moving and I think it's where I kind of had to learn to let artists be emotional my job was always to I felt always to steer them away from that and I just good stuff yeah I know I know but I was scared that it was like I felt like I was emotionally mugging people you know what I mean by letting them get emotional in my space right and actually it's just not up to me to do make that decision at all it's not nothing to do with me so that was a really she was that was a great moment um and you know anytime that um anytime that sort of the parental influence in particular right now comes up um is pretty sort of deep for me because my relationship with my mother in particular was changing you know she has dementia and so i don't have the same relationship i had with her and whatever answers i needed on why our relationship was amazing but also challenging at times are gone i'm not going to get any more answers right so whatever i got to go on now i got to go on so but she's still here and it's awesome and so i'm grateful for every minute i spend with her and the times i get to kind of have these little moments of cognitive awareness and we laugh a lot and there's tears and it's it's it's a it's a brilliant human experience for all of the sadness attached to that really awful disease yeah um whenever i get into conversations and the parental thing comes up uh you know i gotta i gotta take a sharp breath on that and just stay composed because the thing is it's like when when you when when you get to a place when you're trying to get as inside the human experience as possible, right?

39:20Whether it's through music or you cover such a broad spectrum of people's interests and things that affect the world. It's hard for it to not sometimes tap into something you're going through. And so it's just knowing when you want to allow yourself to go there. And I mean, you must feel this too. Oh man. I mean, even you just sharing that story about your mom, How long has that been happening for? You know, the symptoms came on about four years ago. Maybe we started to notice. But in 2019, it became quite evident. And then we were still traveling around. I was taking her on road trips. And I flew home to New Zealand for one night to take her to U2 because she couldn't really go on her own.