How To Build An Indestructible Mindset That Will Allow You To Achieve Anything

30:08And she, you know, she said that at her university, people started calling her TED Girl and, like, sort of talking down to her. Even though it was a popular, well-respected TED Talk. Well, because it was popular, right? Like it's like if it had been, if it had not really hit the radar, it would have been okay. Really? But because you had some success. Yeah. So people had to sort of diminish her in a way, you know, and I experienced a lot of the same stuff. So what became hard for me was talking to colleagues, right? Like standing up for myself. And you, you know, the truth is we need to stand up for each other, right?

30:45When people are in an acute bullying situation, they really can't stand up for themselves. But I'm still figuring out how to engage with other people in academia who weren't necessarily bullies but might have been bystanders who didn't do anything. But to be able to say, I still deserve to be having this conversation. I deserve to have the beliefs that I have. I deserve to defend this massive area of research on body-mind feedback, of which I contribute a tiny bit to. Just because these people don't like it doesn't mean I can't say, well, here's why I do believe it. That's really hard for me. That is the thing that I would approach with the most dread, I think.

31:34Were you able to implement and integrate some of your own practices and teachings when those things happened to you? when you were getting, whether it be criticism or bullying or any of the stuff you were facing, were you able to actually integrate the body language for yourself? I mean, for me, the thing that works the best is, I mean, certainly, I do, like, I walk expansively. Like, long strides before this kind of stressful thing. I won't sit down with my hands in my lap. Like, even putting your hands behind your chair. Like, this is a thing. Kind of opens you up a little bit. But it forces you to open up just doing that.

32:14But the thing that works the best for me is breathing. And I know there is so much on breath work now, and I don't want to, you know, I'm not an expert. But the relaxation response that's triggered by certain breathing patterns is incredibly effective for me. And so basically it sends your nervous system into this rest and digest state, which is the opposite of fight, flee, or faint. And so the one that I like best is called four, seven, eight breathing. And we can do it right now. Yes, do it. So basically for four counts, you inhale. For seven, you hold your breath. And for eight, you exhale.

32:51Okay. So I'm going to count and you do it. Okay. Four, inhale. Seven, hold it. Eight, exhale. Okay, cool. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. And you repeat that a few times? Three times. Like one time you feel it. Yeah. It will put me to sleep at night. You know, if I'm relaxed, it makes me sleepy. But if I'm anxious, it calms me down. So that just, I mean, there's just so much research on the relaxation response and breathing. And, but what I think is interesting about it is that that kind of breathing is expansive. Just like what I talk about, you know, like expansive posture, that's expansive.

33:42You're breathing deeply and slowly. You're taking up more temporal space. You're expanding your, you know, like your physical body more. And when we expand, we tend to feel more confident, more powerful, more calm. Should we always, not always, should we be frequently be in an expansive postural state when we're, you know, kind of nine to five-ish out in the world, doing our activities. What we should be in is having good neutral posture. So before stressful events, that's when I say find a private space. I think I said in the TED Talk, find a bathroom stall, which I honestly think just like I thought of at the moment, but I can't tell you how many emails I get from people who are like, I was in a bathroom.

34:26Or like people who see somebody in a bathroom with their arms up in the air, like, are you power posing in there? I think Ted Lasso is saying she goes to the bathroom and does that, right? I know. I loved it so much. You can't imagine. Like, I love that show, and I had no idea that was going to happen. You had no idea it was coming. I was, like, sobbing. I was like, oh, my God. Well, it's so cool that you, Brene Brown, and Esther Perel, who I've had both of them on as well, were all featured in there. And I'm just like, that's amazing. I know. And I think all of us were absolutely beyond thrilled.

34:56I mean, to have that. And I know I was telling Brene this, but the first time I saw that show, at the end of the first episode, I turned to my husband and I said, I love Ted Lasso. And he goes, that's because you are Ted Lasso. And I was like, well, I guess I had good self-esteem then. But I am Ted Lasso. And so are you. Yes, exactly. It's funny because Brene says that she's Roy Kent. Yeah. She's Roy Kent. You can see a little bit. But anyway, yeah. So before these stressful situations, the ones that you approach with dread, that's when you find some space and really make yourself big. Expansive.

35:34Like whatever feels comfortable to you, expand. You know, in front of other people, it comes across as really aggressive and domineering and off-putting. But if you're in, you know, the privacy of your own bathroom stall or office or whatever, you can do whatever you want. You don't have to worry about cultural norms or putting people off. In our everyday lives, we spend so much time like this with our phones. And that is really bad. First, it's bad for us, just our posture. And it's creating this sort of fixed thoracic stoop. But physiotherapists used to only see in elderly people. And now they're seeing it in 15-year-old boys from gaming and things like that.

36:20And that's something, like, you can't just be like, oh, I'm going to sit up straight. You have to, like, work that out. For years working it out. Exactly. And align your body. Totally. But so it's not only hurting our posture, but I believe that it is affecting our mood. And so, you know, even just set up your workspace so that you can be more expansive. Yes. But we neglect our body language when we're alone because it's language. And if we're alone, we're not talking to anyone. We're talking to ourselves, though. But we're talking to ourselves, right? So it's really important, I think, for us to be minding our posture.

36:57Also, there have been a couple of meta-analyses recently, which basically are just studies that look at all of the studies on a topic and come up with a sort of an average effect size. Like they say, yes, this is a real effect, and this is how big the effect is, right? So studies that have looked at power, meta-analyses of power-opposing studies show really clearly that it affects the way we feel. So expansive - By shrinking our body. Shrinking versus expanding. Affects the way, whether in a positive or - More expansive, more confident, more powerful, psychologically, shrinking, less powerful, less confident.

37:42But what's interesting is that there are two meta-analyses. One of them shows that more of the effect is driven by the difference between neutral and expansive. The other one shows that more of the effect is driven by the difference between, you know, contractive and neutral. So I'm not, we still, in short, there's evidence that both of those things matter. But certainly neutral is better than contractive. Shrinking, yeah, yeah, contracting. Exactly, exactly. And it's probably, you know, even if you were doing a meditative breathing technique, if you're closing your body off and breathing, you're still probably limiting yourself.

38:24Yeah. So you can be breathing and trying to relax the nervous system, but you're closing your body off. It's hard to feel like more alive and confident and calm, I'm assuming. Absolutely. Yeah. It's funny. I once, this woman wrote to me. She said, I teach people public speaking. And I had this student who was really stressed out, this man. And so I got him to power pose for a minute and he said it made him feel worse. Really? And she said, but then I watched, we watched the video. She said, I videotaped him and we watched the video and I was like, were you breathing? He said, no, I didn't breathe.

38:59I held my breath the whole time. Oh my gosh. He's like, well, that's not going to work. Yeah, you're going to pass out. Exactly. So he had been like completely still in this power pose and she, I mean, she was laughing about it, but yeah. How long should we be in an expansive postural state for? You know, it's funny. I really emphasize two minutes in the TED Talk because that's what we had done in those first studies. I think actually less is more. Like we've gone out to five minutes. I think that it just gets awkward. It's that silly. You feel weird, but also like your body gets sort of stiff.

39:36So, you know, I just think it's, I don't even think you have to be still. I think you can be moving in an expansive way. You know, I think there's, it's the whole, I sometimes wish that I hadn't called this power posing because it was so, it's such a sticky idea, right? It's got alliteration. It's like, you know, exactly. Exactly. But at the same time, people got fixed on like standing like Wonder Woman or in the victory pose. And it's not, it's being expansive is more expansive than this. Yes. You know, it's in whatever way works for you. Yeah, the tighter you are, the probably less likely that you're going to perform relaxed.

40:20Right. And football training before games and in practices, they would always tell us to be loose. You know, to move our body, to be flexible, to be expansive, but in a loose state of mind and a loose body, not like rigid or you can't catch the ball if you're like too tight. So it's how can you be expansive, confident, and relaxed at the same time. Yeah. and practicing that in life with the power poses, I think is great. And Ted Lasso, she did it great. She was like, ah, right? It seemed like a monster pose or something. It was awesome. I think she was like. It's amazing, yeah. She made this facial expression that I thought was great.

40:52She's a great actor as well. I wonder if that was like, so if they were like, just do a power pose and she made it up. Off the cuff, yeah, she probably did. I just feel like. She was great. She was so good. When, was there ever a time where you didn't implement this strategy and you realized, oh, I could have done better had I done this, but I just thought I'd had it figured out? So I really love public speaking, and it's like my favorite professional thing to do. It doesn't make me nervous. That's good. So for me, I think a lot of people assume that speaking is the thing that makes everyone nervous.

41:33So for me, it's not that. What makes you nervous? Um, you know, interpersonal conflict, like one-on-one, or I get nervous in like smaller groups. I don't. Isn't that interesting? Like five or 10 people. I feel the same way. Like talking to three people I find much more stressful than talking to, you know, 3 ,000 people. So I don't like to sit in a room for a long time before I'm going to get up and talk to people. I don't want to sit there in a cold room. These rooms are often cold. And, you know, you're going like this and you're totally sort of stiff. And then you get up and you're like, oh.

42:13So I've had that experience enough times to learn I need to be moving around. I need to be warm, not cold. And come in sort of, you know, right before I get up to present or to discuss. So, yes, I've had the experience of being still and kind of, you know, hunched up for too long. Final question is what's your definition of greatness? I think people might think of it as sort of about being the most, sort of the best, the most confident. I think it's a combination of being, yes, your most sort of effective self, but also your most generous self. So greatness has to combine those two qualities.

42:56Why is it so hard for us to get started once we know, okay, now it's time to make the change, but it's still hard to actually get started in doing that. What holds us back from that starting step? Yeah well our motivation to make change is actually just like our motivation to do anything by the way tends to be sort of you know it ebbs and flows. There are times when we are in a more reflective action oriented change oriented mode and times when we're more pessimistic or just sort of going with the flow because we're you know in the middle of things and so actually I've done some research on something I call the fresh start effect this is with um hengchen dai who's down the street at ucla my former student and jason reese uh senior fellow at warden and what we have have shown in our work is that there are certain moments that feel like a new beginning in life like when so one that you know about already and new years or yes exactly right like you didn't need me to come here and tell you about any fancy science you're like yeah i know about new birthday new years yeah yeah there are moments that feel like like okay I'm turning a page an anniversary a graduation move to a new community right job city yeah you got it those are all fresh start moments actually there's trivial ones too but they can matter like the start of a new week can feel like a fresh start that's true you sort of sit down you go into work maybe for the first time in a couple days you feel fresh at your desk ready to sit and think about what are my priorities and whether you wouldn't in the middle of a week start of a month following celebration of certain holidays particularly the kind that we associate with fresh starts so those are all moments when we feel like we've opened a new chapter and we we have a couple things that go on at those moments one is that we feel like okay this is a moment when i want to step back and think big picture about things because you recognize that there's that break point you think actually about your life like you're a character in a book that the way we organize our memories and structure them it's not linear completely Instead, it's like, you know, the college years, you know, the years playing sports, the years living in Boston, whatever they are.

45:02That's how you structure your memories. And that means there's actually implications for the way you live your life. Because when you get to one of those chapter breaks, that's when you do this big picture thinking. And you also tend to feel like your identity is shifting, right? So you like step into a new role as you, you know, I'm turning 40 in the year ahead. And that feels like a big break to me. Like I will be in a different age category. When I became a professor, I vividly remember, like that was a huge shift in my identity. I felt like a different, okay, I have a different set of expectations and roles and ways I should sort of dress and talk.

45:38And that identity shift that can come, even if it's something as small as, you know, you're stepping into a new year and you feel like the new year, new you, you can look back and say, well, you know, last year, my old job, when I was a graduate student, I didn't manage to eat right. But that was the old me and this is the new me. And so you feel the sense of optimism and disconnect from those past failures. Right. It's easy to procrastinate or kind of feel lazy, which is part of your process as well. It's easy to feel that when things are okay. And when things are like good, but they're not like, it's not a big enough pain for you to be like, I need the motive.

46:12Now I have motivation to make a change. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree with that. Do we need a bigger pain or is it possible to create exponential change or transformation when things are okay or really good in your thought? It's so interesting. You know, I do think that even when things are good, we can have these kinds of fresh start experiences that shape us in positive ways. I'll give you an example. I had a phone call. I was driving here from Santa Barbara this morning. I had a phone call with a friend who just got tenure, and he is thinking big. His life is great. Tenure is a great event. For those that don't know, what does that mean?

46:49For those who don't know. Oh, yeah, fair enough. Not everyone is part of my weird world. Academic world, yes. Okay, so in academia, if you're a professor, this is like the be-all and end-all of your career. You're working really hard. You get your PhD. You get your assistant professor job. You work really hard. You write a bunch of papers. You teach a bunch of classes. And if your university says, you know, you're doing great, if you're good enough, they bestow upon you tenure, which means permanent job. Job security basically can't be fired unless you do something illegal. And they're saying, like, you have now total academic freedom.

47:18and we're no longer going to be evaluating you. We trust you. We trust you. And it's like this bizarre institution that's created to help people take risks. But it is a big moment in the life of an academic when they get to that milestone. It's like there's nowhere else to go. You've climbed to the top of the mountain. And so it's really exciting. It often happens to people around their 40s, sort of like midlife when you might already be having some introspection going on about like, why am I here? What's my purpose? So a lot of academics step back at that moment and think, what do I want to do now?

47:49What do I want to do next? I've been climbing and climbing to this point. And I was having this conversation with a friend on the drive here who had reached that point and was having that exact, okay, what's next? And wanted to talk about writing a book, since I'd written a book. And like, what is that? Like, he thinks that might be the next big adventure for him. But nothing is wrong. Everything is right. It's just that he reached a moment, he reached an achievement, he got to the top of a mountain and looked around and realized, okay, I have climbed to my goal, and it's time to figure out what the next one is.

48:19And I think that can be a fresh start, too, even though it's positive. Identity is something that is interesting to me. How important is the way we shape our own identity or view our identity in terms of where we are to where we will be? Like, if we stay stuck in old identities, how do we shed identities? You know, how do we create a new identity even though we've never actually lived it? Will that help us get there? Can you share more just about identity in general on how it hurts us or helps us? It's a fantastic question. I'm going to give you a somewhat, first I'm going to give you a somewhat frustrating answer.

48:54It frustrates me. I don't feel like academic research has wrapped its arms around identity the way I would like it to. Because I think it is unquestionably so important, right? The labels we put on ourselves obviously matter. But I feel like we don't know nearly as much as we should. but it's one of the things I'm most interested to study. It's a nice book. Maybe. We know a little. One of the things I think is most relevant to the way I think about identity is mindset, which is it's different than identity, but a mindset can come with or can be triggered by an identity. And one of the barriers we haven't talked about yet to change that I think is really important is whether you believe you can change.

49:37And identity and mindset are a big part of that. So we know a lot about mindset from work for instance by Carol Dweck at Stanford who's done this incredible mindset versus fixed mindset Exactly, and that's sort of an identity right you you identify with being someone who can grow or you identify as someone who is X right like you know I'm only this smart I'm only this capable So in a sense there's an identity that comes with believing you can grow or an identity that comes with believing you can't There's also wonderful research on the placebo effect and how that extends beyond just medicine. We know about it in medicine that if you believe a sugar pill is going to make you healthier, you actually experience physiological benefits.

50:19But there's some really interesting research showing it's beyond...we think of it in this medical context, and that's where it was first studied. Actually, I learned from a children's book, like Ben Franklin studied this, and I don't know if you know, mesmerizing. Interesting. That term comes from Dr. Mesmer, who was the original sort of charlatan in France, who was giving people fake medicine. Interesting. Anyway, and Ben Franklin figured it all out. Sounds like a freaking Amish show. It does. And it's also a wonderful children's book. So I wish I'd known that before I wrote my book. It would have been in there.

50:50Anyway, there's a lot more, though, than just the medical component to placebo effects, right? When we believe that we will achieve something that also can improve our achievement, right? when we believe we're going to get an outcome. One of my favorite studies that I describe in the book that I think is sort of related to mindset and identity is work by Allie Crum, who's a psychologist at Stanford. She did this really interesting work with Ellen Langer of Harvard where they randomly assigned housekeepers to one of two groups. And those housekeepers were either told every day when you go and do your job in a hotel, you are getting exercise at the level that's recommended by the CDC.

51:30So you're getting a great workout when you do your job. You're burning a thousand calories or you're getting whatever, like you're... Right. I don't know if a thousand calories is the definition. You're getting a great workout. Oh, good workout. Yeah, maybe it's more like 300. Okay. Just not to get too overboard. And then another group just wasn't told that information. And the question actually was, are there differences in the outcomes those two groups experience a month later in terms of health? So does a group that believes they're, you know, doing a job that comes with health benefits actually end up losing more weight, having more controlled blood pressure?

52:03And the answer was yes. Really? Which is, you know, on the one hand, you're like, is that magic? Like, what's going on? On the other hand, you can start to see how it actually would play out and how this would be applicable in other settings. So they believed their job could give them a workout. out and all of a sudden maybe they're choosing to take the stairs from floor to floor to get those extra calories or like lean in a little bit more when they're you know using the vacuum right i live in a uh a townhouse and in philadelphia and someone pointed out to me like it's so great that you live in a townhouse all that passive exercise when you run up and down the stairs and now i am the one volunteering to like you know go grab the ketchup that we forgot if we're gonna have dinner on a roof deck that's exciting i can get extra exercise so there's like different choices that you make once you start to have a different set of beliefs about your right you know what you're achieving so anyway I think of this as related to identity because if you're now you're starting to have the identity is I am someone doing a career that's physically active and now you lean into that and then you experience the benefit so I think I think the work on mindset is the the best work I have seen that's really rigorous um and that relates to identity so if belief uh supports you getting those results you want or making the transformation of the change you want, how would you suggest that we learn to believe in ourselves more from a scientific point of view?

53:24Like what's the data suggest on, okay, if you say these affirmations, if you look in the mirror and do this exercise, if you just smile at people and you create more reflection of joy, like what is the thing that you've seen in data that helps increase belief in oneself? Yeah, I think the most powerful thing is who you surround yourself with. Really? So I think the social context you create, the people around you have so much to do with whether or not you believe in yourself. And by the way, I also want to, I want to add like a really quick footnote because the academic in me can't stand not to, which is to say you can, you can have excessive confidence and that can be harmful.

54:02So this is a little bit of a dangerous like seesaw we're on here, right? You want to be confident enough and believe in yourself enough that you're going to lean into the opportunities and work towards the goals because you believe you could achieve them. But if you're like, I've got this, I'm perfect, you're not going to practice. You're not going to work hard. So there is, anyway, it's a little bit of a delicate balance. But back to how do you get to that right level of belief, everything I know from research points to the structure of the people you surround yourselves with, whether it's the people you work with, the people you train with if you're an athlete, the people you socialize with they give you a lot of those beliefs in yourself and you you can choose them um but they they will with the messages they send you about what's acceptable behavior what's normal what they're achieving and how you measure up it shapes so much about our confidence really there seems to be i think this is true and i also love the examples of some of the great athletes who've accomplished so much that were doubted over and over growing up and kind of have this chip on their shoulder like no one believed in them and they said i'm gonna go prove them wrong type of mentality which i think can get you extremely far in terms of success and results but never feeling this fulfillment inside you never choose that no right so i think what you're pointing to is like it's not a necessary condition right it's not the best environment not the only yeah yeah there are people who can thrive without it but if you get to choose and if you want to create an environment where you're gonna believe in yourself so you think surrounding yourself with the right people the right environment of people the right community what what should those people be like you know what should their attitude their energy their communication style be like with you if people were reflecting on their five to 10 people in their inner circle what should they reflect on they should have these qualities they should say these things or or here's some red flags if your best friend tells you you shouldn't do this or your best friend says I don't think you look good doing whatever it is what are those flags and what are those I guess positive signs yeah well okay here here let me pivot a little bit to another we're doing a lot of academic stuff obviously I'm an academic I'm actually going to tell you a story about a person in academia who is the most important person in my career as my dissertation advisor.

56:32His name is Max Bazerman. He's a Harvard Business School professor, great human being, and a great academic. What he's truly exceptional at is mentoring. His PhD students have gone on to be tenured professors. Now everyone knows what tenure is at every elite institution in the world. So he's good at instilling belief in other people. Unbelievably good. Confidence, belief. Unbelievably good. And he does all the other things that you need to do to help someone succeed, right? Like, you know, good coaches, you know, he you know, the training, like the actual teaching of skills, all those things are part of it.

57:05But I think he creates an environment for people to thrive. And it actually took me a while after I had graduated as one of his advisees. And I was trying to advise my own students and figure out what was the secret sauce that made him so wildly more successful as a coach and mentor than anyone else in our field had really, I mean, stratospherically more successful. and what I realized is he had all the obvious stuff all those obvious ingredients like you know you know responsive and knew his stuff and gives you gives you feedback but but there was a an unshaking belief like he treated you like family he was there for you he believed that you could do it he always was giving that positive reinforcement another thing that he did that I think is so interesting and related to research is he sort of created I'll call it like mentoring circles within the students he was coaching so that we were not always just being coached or mentored and advised by him, right, but he would put us in the position to advise more junior students.

58:08So there's this wonderful research that I write about in the book by Lauren Eskris Winkler who's a professor at the Kellogg School at Northwestern and she had this amazing insight when she was doing research for her dissertation. She noticed that she was interviewing all these people who were struggling to achieve their goals and as she asked them what they thought might help them achieve more because that's what she was interested in how do we increase achievement they all have these really deep insights you know struggling salespeople and C students when she got them to introspect they actually knew a lot they maybe just hadn't gotten there and no one had asked them they also really liked being asked like what's your advice how would you coach someone who was in your shoes and she realized most of the time when someone is struggling or when we're coaching someone, our instinct, even if it's unsolicited, is to just whip out some advice.

58:58Like, here are the seven things that I think will help you get further. And it can be really demotivating because it conveys, like, I think you're kind of, you know, you haven't gotten your stuff together. You don't have the answers. I have the answers. I'm going to give you the answers. And that's our instinct. And she thought, what if we flip the script? What if instead of putting our arm around someone and giving them advice, we said, you know, what would you do? What would you do? And do you, and actually, how would you coach someone else? And not even just how would you actually have them coach someone else?

59:27Like put you in the role of a mentor and coach to someone else who has similar goals so that you feel like you're on a pedestal. Wow, someone trusts me to give this kind of advice. I must, I must, you know, be kind of cut out for this. Maybe I'm better at this than I thought. And then you're going to start introspecting in a way you might not, if it was just your problem because you got to help someone else and you don't you know you don't want to let them down and then when you do that you actually figure out well I've got some good ideas and like maybe I do know something and then once you've told someone else to do it you're gonna feel like a hypocrite if you don't do it yourself right so this is another sort of social trick Max would put us in these sort of advice giving circles where the senior students are working with the junior and he rarely gave advice actually he more facilitated the experience for you to learn and create the answer within yourself I guess by By helping others.

1:00:16By helping others. And he's nudging along the way and like, good job, or like maybe a little redirection. And if you go to him and you're like, I need to know how to do X, he tells you. But there wasn't a lot of backseat driving, if that makes sense. And I think that also helped build confidence. It made us believe in ourselves in those roles. And I now actually have an advice club of people who are former Mac students, maybe no accident, we sort of try to keep this going even beyond that point in our lives where he was coaching us. And each of us, we're at similar career stages, all professors, similar goals.

1:00:57And we reach out to each other for solicited advice whenever we're facing a challenge, a career challenge, and aren't sure what to do. And it's just been totally amazing. So it's this peer group of people who support each other, care about each other. There's friendship. that's all built in. We see others achieving and it helps us see, oh, if they can do it, I can do it. But then also we get to give advice and we grow from that as well. What would you say are the top three or five things that a coach can do to instill belief in someone else that you witnessed from him or that you've also seen with your peer group?

1:01:35I think a lot of positive feedback is super important, that that's like the predominant sense is that this person thinks I'm doing great, even if they're also telling me ways I can improve because you don't want to only, obviously, it's really important to also get, well, like a little more like this. You need that nudging, but it needs to be with a positive. Sometimes people call it a feedback sandwich, right? You like start with the positive. Anyway, so I do think that positivity and like conveying they believe in you, I think creating social structure for you, which is one other things Max there was sort of a whole ecosystem of other students and and supporters and who were all striving towards similar goals and instead of feeling like we were in competition with one another it was very clear that we were all part of a team almost every email starts with high team right these are academics all vying for jobs and to sort of achieve and you could see it being very cutthroat and competitive we weren't on a team right we weren't playing for a team but we were a team and that was how we saw ourselves and then the structuring you know some everybody's structured to help others who are below you know below them it's sort of part of your role is working with them so those are a few of the key things I'm not sure I've hit your number positive feedback social structure supporting the team yeah putting people in the role of advice givers or supporters and mentors I think you yeah he's he said you said he believed in you he treated you like family um mentoring circles yeah yeah so maybe we have hit the number you asked for.

1:03:08That's great. I love that. Those were the keys. I love that.

1:03:15I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier. You want to make it flow. You want to feel abundant. then make sure to go to makemoneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the School of Greatness.

1:03:56I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

1:04:33And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.