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Podcast Summary: The School of Greatness - Hozier Opens Up: “I Was At War With Myself”
Episode Overview In this episode of *The School of Greatness*, host Lewis Howes interviews the acclaimed musician Hozier, known for his hit song “Take Me to Church.” The discussion revolves around Hozier's journey through fame, the challenges of maintaining authenticity, and the importance of personal growth. The episode highlights Hozier's reflections on creativity, mental health, and the pressures faced by artists in today's world.
Key Themes and Discussions
Navigating Fame and Success
- Initial Success and Pressure: Hozier discusses the overwhelming success of "Take Me to Church" and the pressures that accompanied it. He reflects on feelings of imposter syndrome, questioning whether he deserved the accolades.
- Maintaining Authenticity: The conversation touches on Hozier's desire to stay true to his artistry while serving his audience. He emphasizes the importance of prioritizing passion for music over commercial success.
Personal Struggles and Growth
- Battle with Self-Doubt: Hozier opens up about being in conflict with himself, describing his mental state as being "at war" with opposing thoughts.
- Mental Health Awareness: The pandemic forced Hozier to confront his mental health issues, leading him to a significant personal transformation. He emphasizes the importance of self-reflection and nurturing a healthy relationship with himself.
The Creative Process
- Techniques for Overcoming Creative Blocks: Hozier shares insights on how he navigates creative blocks and maintains enthusiasm in his work. He discusses the role of mindfulness and grounding practices.
- Connection with Audiences: Hozier describes the deep emotional connection he experiences with audiences during live performances, highlighting moments that feel spiritually significant.
Insights on Art and Responsibility
- Art as Healing: The discussion emphasizes the power of music as a tool for healing and connection. Hozier reflects on the responsibility artists carry to address societal issues through their art.
- Quality Over Quantity: Hozier advocates for focusing on the quality of work rather than commercial success, emphasizing that the value of art does not diminish based on its reception.
Key Takeaways
- Authenticity is Key: Staying true to one's values and artistry is crucial in navigating success.
- Prioritize Mental Health: Self-reflection and nurturing a positive relationship with oneself are fundamental to personal and creative growth.
- Art’s Impact: Artists have a unique power to influence and heal through their work, but they must also recognize their own limits.
- Embrace the Journey: The path to success is filled with both challenges and moments of joy; it's important to celebrate personal milestones.
Conclusion Lewis Howes and Hozier engage in a profound conversation about the complexities of fame, the importance of self-care, and the responsibility artists have in today's society. Hozier's journey serves as a reminder that true fulfillment comes not from external validation but from genuine connection to oneself and one's art.
For more insights and to listen to Hozier's album *Unreal, Unearth*, visit [Hozier's official website](https://hozier.com/).
Related Episodes
- [Rick Rubin](https://link.chtbl.com/1536-pod)
- [Zane Lowe](https://link.chtbl.com/1452-pod)
Connect with Lewis Howes
- [Website](http://lewishowes.com/)
- [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/lewishowes/)
- [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/lewishowes)
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This summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions and insights that can inspire listeners on their own journeys toward greatness.
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Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00At just 24 years old, Andrew Hosier Byrne captured the world's attention with his hit song, Take Me to Church. Today, we'll explore how he navigated the immense success and pressure that followed, and whether he experienced imposter syndrome amidst the praise. Andrew will also share his insights on balancing the desire to serve his audience while staying true to his art, and how he learned to prioritize his passion for music over chasing chart rankings. I'm Lewis Howes, and this is The School of Greatness. Now, let's dive into today's episode with Hosier. I honestly felt I was never going to write another song.
0:35Really? Yeah, sometime during the pandemic. And I hit this kind of wall where I couldn't move forward. And I felt I'd written my very last song. Your first made noise with this breakout single we were all obsessed with, Take Me to Church, earning a rare diamond certification. And since then, it has become one of the top 30 most streamed songs ever on Spotify. Please welcome singer-songwriter, Hozier. So I was absolutely at war with myself constantly. Really? Yeah, yeah. How did that look like on a daily basis? What would that be? It's like I couldn't have a thought without an opposing thought, you know?
1:06So it's like my brain was kind of split in two. I'd have a thought and then a thought to combat with that. The artist's question of, okay, like, it's knowing that art has such potential to heal, it's easier to just, once you make the conversation with yourself, well, what am I trying to make sense of within myself? Mmm. It's quite paralyzing to be confronted with. And the great, great question of, will this heal somebody? Will this fix this thing? Mmm. Maybe music is special in that you can discover a song at any time. You can discover an artist from the 80s or 70s, 50s. But you gain what you create in that moment as you discover it is something that's spontaneous and is happening now.
1:45What is the biggest thing you still struggle with today? Really great questions, but very challenging ones. But yeah, I kind of want to phone a friend. Welcome back, everyone at the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring, iconic Andrew Hosier Byrne in the house, my man. Hey, thank you so much for having me. So glad that you're here. I remember about 10, 11 years ago when Take Me to Church came out, and it was kind of the anthem for the world, I feel like. It was on repeat, on my playlist, on everyone's playlist, and it really catapulted you into another level of success, stardom, financial gain, and opportunities.
2:27You know, one of the most downloaded or one of the most streamed songs of all time on Spotify, 13 times platinum, diamond certified, Grammy nominated. I mean, every type of award you could get, you received or were nominated for at a very young age. 22, I believe, right? A little bit older. I think it was 24. 24. Okay. So 24. I'm curious. if I would have had that much fame, success, money at 24, I think I would have, my ego would have got the best of me. I would have probably, I don't know, done things that I would have been ashamed of later in life. I probably would have like, I don't know, just not been the best person with that much.
3:06Everyone tell me you're incredible. You're a gift to the world. You're successful. How did you navigate success that early and the pressure to live up to some potential at 24 when the world was watching and listening to you? Yeah. I think, thank you. I think, first of all, give yourself some credit. I think you navigated very gracefully. And when you're in that situation, it is there's something of your makeup or your ingredients just steers you, hopefully in the right way. What I will say is that I had really good, I had good friends around me, you know, I had a grounded sense around me. I had a very grounded upbringing.
3:49Some of this is maybe cultural and some of this is personal. The cultural side of it, being Irish, I was naturally suspicious of kind words being said about me or to me, you know, at a time when, especially coming to a city like this or at a time when, yeah, the song was making the rounds and it was a hit, you get a lot of attention. And I think my natural response to that oftentimes was not suspicion necessarily, but a kind of a guarded skepticism. So you didn't buy into your own hype. Yeah, that was it. That's a good way of putting it. And some of that's personal as well too. I'm not great at receiving praise, working on that as time goes on as life moves on so it never I never internalized it you know I never internalized uh the noise around the the success of the song as something that I would graft onto my person you know and that's something that I think hopefully stood to me I could maybe have done with pat myself on the back one once did you not give yourself the credit were you just kind of like, well, it's still not good enough or I should be better or I need to do it again.
5:06Yeah. It was more that I felt maybe I had, I felt like I hadn't, because it was the first song I'd ever released. Gosh, that's crazy, man. Yeah. So it felt like, and it's a song I just like, I threw together in my, in my parents' attic. I had moved back to, I'd moved back home from living in Dublin and I realized I did not have, you know, it was like that point where I was like, okay, long-term, I can't keep paying this rent. I'm going to move back up. I'm going to be a musician. I was staying with my parents for a brief time. And then, yeah, I just threw the song together in my attic. In like, what, a day, a couple hours, a few days?
5:44To be fair, I was writing that song for, like, lyrically for over a year. Okay. So I had been sitting on this egg, this, like, lyrical thing. But it came together musically rather fast. But maybe there was some part of me that felt like, have I earned this? you know did i you know have i been doing this for 10 years you know and i i've been sitting i've been obviously stewing over writing music i've been writing songs for years at that point i wasn't sharing them with the world but i've been writing them in to myself and for myself and i had been for a couple of years doing sort of open mic stuff uh-huh working on other people's projects but it felt very quick and very early so there was a a an imposter syndrome thing really For sure.
6:28Yeah, of course. Yeah, big time. So that's probably another thing that I was like, okay, yeah, maybe I felt I had more to do. Like you had improved yourself enough and done the reps enough. I had A, yeah. But you were doing open mic for a couple of years, you said. I think I saw you were on a choir for a while, an orchestra choir for a while as well. So you had been in music. I think I learned that you picked up a guitar at 15. So at that time, about nine years at least of guitar, singing, songwriting, open mics. So it wasn't that you just started the year before. True, true. No, and as time goes on, I'm able to sort of look back and go, no, you know what?
7:11And part of that is that's a personal journey of going, no, like it happened because I worked like a dog, you know, to bring that song to where it got to. At the time, I wasn't present in that. Really? I don't think so. So in this first, I guess, six months after the song is released and you start to see this meteoric rise on the song's success, where you're getting invited to all the awards ceremonies, is you're performing on stages with other big names now, and everyone wants to talk to you or interview you. What is going through your mind? Are you thinking, I'm not deserving of this, or I'm not worthy of this?
7:54Or are you thinking I'm an imposter? I don't know. I think there's some switch in your brain as soon as somebody says, I love your song, or I love your great work on that, or whatever. There's some switch in your brain that just like a wall, like this little psychic wall goes up and the, the compliment, the, the, whatever, the noise, the glitter and the roar of that moment just hits against that wall and falls, falls away. Really? I think so. Yeah. I think, um, so it's, it's, it's a. Did that, if you had that, you know, that wall, did you feel like it helped you in managing the pressure then because you weren't believing all of it quickly?
8:34Maybe so. Maybe so. There might be a coping mechanism to it in that it's the flip side of that is that, okay, you can shrug off then the pressure to be this thing rather than internalize this being, whatever, that everyone else is experiencing around you as yourself that you don't necessarily experience. and yeah, you don't have to deal with the weight of that or the pressure of that or the duality of that. Maybe you're just like, I don't know what you're all talking about. I don't know what the hype is and maybe that makes it easier. So there might be a coping element to it. I feel like there must be such a pressure for artists on that type of a platform and stage to create meaning around life for humanity, to have the answers to society's problems, to help people heal with their pain and their problems.
9:30Do you ever felt like you were put in a position to try to, you know, answer the world's problems through your art too quickly before you actually lived life enough? It's such a broad, it's such a deep, broad question about like, about art or it's not it's necessarily its purpose you know or or it's it's potential maybe you know and and the artist's question of okay like like it's knowing that art has such potential to heal and uh to comfort and to offer a reflection or offer a new perspective or a new window into meaning especially around suffering and there's plenty of that in the world. I think that can be a challenge maybe for any artist to, even before they step into the creation of a work, and I've definitely felt this, is that you are confronted with the potential of that work and that is very difficult and I think it's it's easier to just once you make the conversation with yourself and as to okay well what am I trying to make sense of within myself what is coming up what you know if I pull on this rope what comes up from the well you know what's in that bucket and then okay to to to try and feel that get a sense of that you know it's it's I think that's maybe that's the the starting place i think it's near it's quite paralyzing to be confronted with and the the great great question of will this heal somebody will this fix this thing that's impossible and there is some part of you at some point and i think i don't know if you're in any way a sort of a somebody who's tends to you know care deeply for people and and or is in any way a people pleaser or is trying to fix people's problems around you there is this you're like, oh no, this must be all things to all people.
11:38And part of the challenge is letting go of that. So when you write that, you know, I'm assuming you'd written many songs before, take me to church, you know, growing up, you're writing songs, but that was the first one that you kind of released into the world, I guess. Right. Were you thinking ever, how is this going to impact others when you write a song and put it out in the world? Are you thinking more, this is how this impacts me and I just want to share that with others. It was a little bit of both. I think there was two things. There was one thing I wanted. I wanted the song to speak to the legacy of that institution, of the institutionalized Roman Catholic Church, specifically in Ireland.
12:21I didn't think that that song was going to have an international audience. I didn't even think that that song was going to have a broad Irish audience. I wrote this song as an unsigned, unknown artist who was just I suppose there was an anger behind it it was this is the knowing and even did not know the extent of the legacy of that institution a few years after its release we're still if you're familiar with essentially a grave site that they found in a town called Tuam in Galway where you'd been I won't go into it now but like all sorts of stuff with that legacy so what I was just trying to process was the kind of personal questions of the personal and the intimate and the romantic and the sexual and trying to take back what is divine in those things take back what we might consider sacred in those things wrestling them back from the from an institution whose legacy is so harmful.
13:31So it was more that, you know, but there was never a... There was a thought as I was writing it that there will be very, very few people who will see what I'm doing here in this song and will appreciate it. But I thought it was like... I thought it would be a great... Low polls in Ireland or something. A small audience. A pub crowd who's like, you're going to go sing an open mic floor and sing this song. Yeah, it would be... I was proud of the song, but I, I, beyond that, it was more, it was more in conversation with me. And it was a lot of those lyrics I had in a notebook that I kept with me for a year at that point.
14:08Right. Right. So yeah. I had interviewed many bestselling authors, a handful who sold five, 10 million copies of their book. I had Liz Gilbert on one time. She wrote the book, Eat, Pray, Love. And she did a famous TED talk about how, you know, how to grapple with her best work or her most known work potentially being behind her. Right. Like, cause she sold 10 million copies. It was this global movie. It was like this phenomenon that took off in the world when she wrote it and how to navigate life after potentially what could be the biggest success you could ever have. She was like, I probably won't write a book again that does another 10 million copies.
14:51It's very rare. to do that have you ever thought about that of like just how to navigate a long career with such a big hit early on and not let needing to chase downloads or streams or charts yeah be the driver for you like your first single yeah yeah um it's a it's a tricky one and and then and if it doesn't do that well like am i a failure or is there something wrong you know Do you ever think about that? Yeah. You know what? It's something that you gain. And it's like a relationship thing as time goes on. I'm kind of laughing to myself, a member of my label team, who's been with me since the very beginning.
15:33Betsy is next door, so she's going to hear me talk now about it. Yeah, I don't care about strength. No, no, no.
15:41Of course, you would love that the work is seen or heard by as many ears as possible if they connect with it. I think there is, and there is one part of you maybe that would love that. I think that as time goes on and even then, even 10 years ago, I recognize that this, and this is maybe what's most important to me, is that the music that I want to make and the music that I feel moved to make does not necessarily belong in the spaces of the top 10. You know, music that is geared towards social spaces and hearty atmospheres. Music that is like oftentimes points towards like an aspirational sort of whatever it is.
16:32A lot of the time it's club life or it's music that celebrates or engages in like a kind of a conspicuous consuming of life and its pleasures, etc. You know, but one that isn't. But I can't, it would be a bit silly of me to be all what was me and want to write songs about, you know, whatever, the Roman Catholic Church or songs that, you know, the legacy of colonialism or occupation or something like that. and go, why isn't this in the clubs? So it's just that I don't necessarily feel aligned, and I'm okay with that. And what I am, but this is why I feel so lucky. So I'm very much at peace with it not being, those are, as well, oftentimes those are external, that's external validation.
17:36Again, it's a thing of like, when I was in that, I also wasn't fulfilled in any sort of like by that external validation in a very, in a personal way. Yes, there's all of these, you know, it's great and there's wonderful opportunities, but I wasn't getting from that external validation. I wasn't getting a voice in my head saying, oh, yeah, now I've arrived and now I feel good about myself. No, this would be the same for anybody. I'm sure you're probably the very same. And so reminding myself of that, you know, helps. But then also just to know that and this is where I feel incredibly fortunate.
18:19I feel like I want for nothing is that I can write. I write songs. I feel on my own terms with stuff that does. I do, you know, move me or I feel moved to write. It's not exactly subject material all the time that says, come on in, this is easy going, like listening, you know, and playing around with like literary influences like from centuries ago. And yes, I still see that I'm selling more tickets now than I was when taking the church was a hit. Yeah. Like I'm sending far more tickets for shows, right? Go, man. It's cool. Why do you think you're selling more a decade later after, you know, your first big hit?
18:59I think part of it is time. Part of it is there's a whole new generation of people now that are exploring the work who are maybe 10 years, 11 years old when my first songs came out. And they were listening to it then. And they were listening to it. And what's, it's like, it's like cool they were listening to it when they were 10 or 11 in the car as they were being driven to school. What's nuts to me is that they're buying tickets to come to the shows now. That's amazing. It's really, it's, yeah. And I feel really fortunate. I feel incredibly blessed at that. And I think part of it is that maybe it's just the nature of song is that it's hopefully that the work is lasting and people have had 10 years to gain a relationship with the music and it has been part of their lives for 10 years.
19:42And in that way, yeah, it's, you know, and maybe music is special in that you can discover a song at any time. You know, you can discover an artist from the 80s or 70s, 50s, but you gain what you create in that moment as you discover it is something that's spontaneous and it's happening now. You create a memory, you create a relationship with that work, and that's of the moment. And if you could buy tickets to go and see that artist now, you would, you know, it doesn't mean... That's so true. Yeah. It's interesting, as you're saying this, I'm reflecting on my childhood. Like, my parents would play.
20:19When we'd go on, like, a trip or something, like driving through to go skiing or whatever, camping or something, they would play the Beatles a lot. A season of time where they'd play the Beatles and I was like, oh, I didn't even know who the Beatles were until I did know who they were because they started playing it. And then I got to hear all these songs and I was like, wow, this is so fascinating. And whatever, 40 years later, then these songs were hits. I discover them. Totally. Totally. And probably have a relationship with those songs in the same way that somebody did in the sixties in some regards.
20:52Isn't that interesting? You know, yeah, I think, I found that when I was rediscovering a lot of music that my dad would have played in the house that I was unaware of. When I was in my teens listening to 12-bar blueses, I had a feeling of like, oh, this is what home, listening to this music, this feels like home to me. but there was there was something that was nearly like i had been listening to um like classic rock and roll like blues music 12 and eight bar blues is he was in a blues band he was in like he was covering blues music there was always tapes he'd like these tapes of the material that his that his band was working on and stuff like from before i was born um but i i did notice that that the music that, that just was always playing in the house.
21:43I had no conscious awareness of it when it was being played. But then when I was a teenager. It was just in the background. It was in the background. Yeah. And, but I was able to, I had, I forged this relationship with it that, that I just felt very comfortable with at home with. And, and, uh, I dunno. Yeah. I think that's, that can be powerful too. You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's, um, yeah, I think the relationship you form, they say that, you know, when we evolved into the beings that we are, that our auditory senses evolved long before our visual. So I think there's something about hearing things, about listening to things, there's something quite deep in it.
22:22We hear our parents' voices long before we see them. So in some regards, I mean, we hear music before we engage in any other type of artistic medium. We're listening to music in the womb. Even before we understand it, we're hearing it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious, in the last decade, what has been the biggest transformation you've seen within yourself through this journey of success and experience and making all this art? And what is the biggest thing you still struggle with today? Really great questions, but like very challenging ones. and so the biggest thing you've learned about yourself and and the biggest challenge or struggle you have today do you have even with the the success that you've created it's a school of greatness Andrew no yeah totally and so yeah um yeah got to expect those great those great questions you know um But yeah, I kind of want to phone a friend.
23:24I think stuff I've learned about myself is... I mean, I've done a lot of personal work. I used to think that realizing that creating... Maybe this is one thing I can offer. Being creative and creating. and my relationship with myself was also, you know, my relationship with the work is very often dependent on my relationship with myself. What do you mean by that? That it's a thing, it's like whether it's self-doubt or it's self-criticism and an internal monologue that is largely negative. Something I took for granted my whole life It didn't catch up with me until a couple of years ago when I realized I honestly felt I was never going to write another song.
24:23Really? Yeah, sometime during the pandemic. And I hit this kind of wall where I couldn't move forward anymore. And I felt I'd written my very last song. And I had to come around to, okay, no, this is just, it's the same voices, but they're just louder now. because there's nothing to distract me, you know? So I think that was, you know, in the pandemic, that was part of it. You weren't able to tour, you weren't able to go out and distract yourself. Not that tour is a distraction, but you weren't able to, you had to sit still now. Yeah. And hear everything coming in. Yeah, and in some ways tour is a magnificent distraction.
25:03And it's a job in which you're constantly putting out fires, you know, and every day is another little crisis, you know? And, you know, I'd still get, I wouldn't say, would you call it stage fright? but like i'm still having to regulate my body constantly i'm terrible you know what i mean every day is like really oh yeah 10 minutes before stage yeah i'm like i can't do this yeah yeah come on yeah yeah there's an element of like nerves and and like i am not able i you know i'm not able to to to do this it's so funny i was joking with some of the band and this is maybe a magician thing we're two week we had a few weeks break i was a month into a couple of weeks after break and i was i was trying to think now this is maybe because a lot of playing is muscle memory you don't think about when it's automatic.
25:44But I was trying to think to myself, like, how do I play that song on guitar? I couldn't visualize a fretboard. I couldn't visualize finger movement. But yeah, no, there is always this creeping voice that's, you know, and it's, look, it's immaterial. You find your way around it, you find your step over it, you know, and you ground yourself and stuff but then yeah but in in so but creatively i think when you are exactly as you described there was no distractions like in during the pandemic so but tour is there's plenty there's always something to do whether it's press promo you know meetings i'm oftentimes releasing music at the same time so it's looking at artwork video edits mixes mastering and i'm constantly i'll be honest like constantly a little bit overweight like just a little bit under overwhelmed you know and like i'm just the nose is like you know you're on the lot it's a nostril you know barely breathe but um yeah yeah and part of me you know it's also realizing okay is this is this by design am i trying to keep myself up here interesting and because because you didn't want to face yourself maybe yeah you just yeah you operate operate well in that space or at least you function in that way, but yeah.
27:06Maybe it's not well, but you're like, you're operating. Yeah, you're operating or you're, yeah, you're operating. You're getting everything that needs to be done, done. So pandemic hits and that all stops and you have to face yourself. I guess so, yeah. What was the biggest fear that came to you when you weren't able to go on tour, you weren't seeing people and you had to turn around and face the parts of you that maybe you weren't aware of yet? I can't recall exactly if it was a feeling of fear. There was a feeling of maybe sorrow that came with it and sort of, it's just a lowness, you know what I mean?
27:44Just a sort of a very, like, you know, and I think anybody who's maybe prone to sort of depressive episodes or is, you know, will be familiar with it, but it's this kind of, I just slowed down in all forms and I just felt no root. I saw no ability to write. And any attempt to make it seemed impossible. I also fully believe, and this is a funny thing about when you're in that mindset, I fully believe that I could not, I did not know how to write a song. Despite all evidence against it, I was like, oh no, I actually don't know how to do this. and so How many songs have you written at this point?
28:33Oh like you know probably you know over a hundred or you know obviously ones that don't get released but like yeah but like there's something I do all the time but there's something that enters into the mind and then I realize it's like oh no this has nothing to do with this this is something else so again it's about relationship with self you know so that was something I learned What was your relationship with yourself like? I think I didn't have much of one, you know, so, and it was more just realizing, okay, I'm going to have to cultivate a very positive relationship with myself, you know, and actually kind of put, you know, begin to address the root of some of this stuff and put an arm around myself.
29:16Wow. And actually, so that was the beginning of one of the more significant changes in my life, I would say is is tending to actually you know by the time I was 30 actually like tending to let's say mental health and a relationship with self which I had I had just avoided doing you know because I could sort of I felt maybe I could work my way around it or I could you know but once you can't run anymore you know it's I'd sometimes describe it as the hamster wheel had to stop spinning you know what I mean and so then you're forced to sit in your little cage. You know what I mean? So, and kind of look around and take it in and go, okay, I made something not right about this.
29:59What is the thing that you realized about your identity with yourself or your relationship to yourself when you no longer were chasing or on tour or distracted by facing yourself? I think it was, I'd say you could say it was defined by a large, I had a very largely a combative relationship with myself. So I was absolutely at war with myself constantly. How did that look like on a daily basis? What would that be? It's like I couldn't have a thought without an opposing thought. So it's like my brain was kind of split in two, that I'd have a thought and then a thought to combat with that. No, that's not real.
30:37That's not true. This is the truth. This is real. Yeah. Back and forth. Yeah. But at times, I guess like your state, you know you're not always sometimes you're a seven some days are three some days are nine some days are you know and creatively it's like that could really slow me down because it's like i think this is a nice idea i think this is beautiful no it's not you know so you i couldn't hold i couldn't hold with one thought um at the same time oftentimes so it was it was challenging i won't go into the nitty and the gritty of of like my whole experience but um yeah that's probably for another, you know, but, uh, but no, it definitely put roadblocks up, you know?
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31:25And, and so that was a big change when I started to address that. How did you navigate the process? And I'm assuming there wasn't, I mean, I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know if in Ireland growing up, there was a lot of talk around mental health and having a good relationship with yourself and a healthy identity. And, you know, I don't know if there was or not, but how did you learn to develop that then, during that time, without having any of those skills or tools for the first 30 years of your life? There wasn't. There wasn't really. And especially, it's not something even...
31:57I mean, more so my parents' generation would have had any sort of... Not really.
32:05Not in a kind of a, this is something we can talk about. It's a day-to-day thing. Can I suck it up and let's not talk about it and keep moving forward and just, everything's good? Very 1970s. Yeah, yeah. You know, the 70s. But I'm very grateful to sort of, to have access to more, to be more present in the day to day with my actual lived experiences as opposed to just, yeah, just having this kind of... Wow, man. Yeah. So you're allowed, I mean, I'm really grateful you're talking about this because I wrote a whole book called The Mask of Masculinity. Okay. Um, seven years ago now. Yeah. Where, cause growing up, I felt like I had to be, you know, this strong man.
32:50I could never cry. I can never show my emotions in school, sports. Um, and it tormented me inside, you know, it tormented me emotionally feeling like I had to wear a mask to fit in and belong, but it wasn't my truest authentic self. And when I hit about 30, that's when I started to unwind and start to navigate the therapy myself and reflect and heal. And it's, it's, it was extremely challenging. It's probably the hardest thing I've ever done is to let go of those masks and open myself up to myself, turn around and look at all the parts of me that I was ashamed of or afraid of or scared of or insecure of, and actually acknowledge them and look at them and start to heal the little boy inside of me that still had a lot of guards up and fears and insecurities and doubts and shame and angers and resentments and all these different things that I was not proud of and started to integrate my current self with my younger self and mend the wounds, the emotional or psychological wounds that were stored in the body and the nervous system.
34:07Yeah. Yeah. To create alignment with the present and the now. And it was the most challenging thing I've ever done in my life, but it set me free. And as I'm sure you're in right now, healing is a journey and I'm 10 years deep in the healing work and I've never felt more free also knowing that you can't just stop doing the work. Yeah. Yeah. Like I still go to therapy every month. I still show up and allow myself to talk about it and process things in a healthy, conscious way in a safe way. And I think it's really inspiring to hear you talking about this because I can only imagine the amount of pressures that artists feel to create art.
34:51Um, and I think a lot of artists tend to create from pain or suffering. It seems like rather than peace and joy. Um, but it's probably challenging cause you're sharing it with the world, but you're also still need to deal with it yourself and just a, a probably a messy process. Yeah. I, the whole sharing from, or writing from, also, let me just, I just want to address, it's like, thank you. Thank you for, for, for sharing that. And it's, it's, uh, it's, It's beautiful. It's very similar to what you describe. And I think I was 30 also. It took me 30 years of living in a way where I realized, oh, I can't do this anymore.
35:38I can't live like this anymore. And I've waited too long to feel like I can cope. You know what I mean? and then it isn't interesting that no amount of success or money or frick fame will give you that peace or freedom that you're looking for yeah 100 % is that interesting yeah but I think a lot of people I don't think that's what you were doing I don't think you were chasing that um you were being an artist and it took off yeah but I think a lot of people in society in the world are looking to accelerate their career to have more status to make more money to have you know flashier things or success to fulfill a part of them that is insecure or afraid or doubting something.
36:22And the more I did that and the more others do that, it doesn't solve the problem. You still have to turn around and look at yourself at some point. Totally. And I think it's largely unconscious and this driving, you know what I mean? But that sort of thing of dry. And I do think about this a lot of whether would I be driven to be, you know, cause surely the work, it's his question, surely the work is enough. Like if I just, if I just loved songs and I just wanted to write them, do I need everybody to hear them? You know, what's the part of - Why go on tour? Why do this? Why do that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
37:00You know, why did I, why did I need it? So there is, I sometimes wonder, you know, what part of me needed to be witnessed, you know, or what, what, um, you know, and I think a lot of people who are driven towards work in the public view, um, I'm not saying everybody, I'm just saying generally there is, I think you, you might be correct in that there were, there is a, there, all, all of us are driven in some way from maybe some, some unobserved place that, that in some way that all of us think, okay, if I get this thing or I do this thing, all my problems will be solved. We all imagine this picture in our heads of that arrival point that just never comes.
37:43Or you get there, you'll see the picture and it'll align with the picture in your mind, but the feeling is not there. Or it's still not enough. You still want more. Are you still comparing to what your peer might be doing? Oh, they're getting this opportunity, right? Yeah, totally. And it's something you shared about that thing. It's kind of that self-parenting thing of like a getting relationship with yourself as a child and a friend of mine once described described it quite quite beautifully i have to say of like getting to this point in that process of then looking out from some moment of their life and just reminding pausing to remind themselves to invite their child to watch it with them cool and to to stand in space either whether through the the window of their of their home or at some event that they were at and to imagine in their mind's eye that their child was there to say hey look you know look where we are you did this you know and i i'm quite moved by that just to just to bring your child into that and go like because there's some there's some sometimes there's a there's this sort of switch that happens where we think no i took i took myself away from these circumstances and i did all of this on my own but to turn around to your kid and say, hey, you know, I want you to see this.
39:02Wow. And how, how great you did, you know, and how you, you did this, you know, and we did this together. Isn't this cool? And just to, to let your kid sort of smile at that. That's beautiful. And him, yeah. And I think it's that one, I think that's a, that is a life-changing relationship thing, you know, I think with yourself, if you can do that. and but again yeah i i mean i i had no language for this until i was after a few years ago yeah until a couple years ago so i'm still why my reluctance also to speak too much on it is because i'm so early in it you know yeah wow man this is beautiful i'm so happy you're talking about this though yeah uh and don't feel and you know don't feel like you need to open up about things here or anywhere until you feel you've processed things enough and you may never need to do that publicly either.
39:51It's just... I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. It's not a pressure here for that in any way. But it sounds like you are in a journey of creating a healthy relationship with self. It's what I'm hearing you say. Yeah, I think so. I think so. I'm realizing that it's also imperative for the work I want to make. And it's also, it's like to not do it. I think when you start on that, by the time you're ready to sort of do your own little, work on yourself, you're ready to realize that not doing this isn't an option, you know, or not, you know, or it's an option, but you've done that, you know what I mean?
40:29Or for what's ahead of you and what it is that you want for your life and you feel the experience of living that you would like to get to. It's like you realize, okay, I just kind of have to do this. What do you think, Andrew, is available for you emotionally, internally, and externally in the world as you continue to navigate this healing journey for yourself? What do you feel like is available for you or your mission? I think this is maybe not just necessary for the work as well too, for being creative. I just want to walk in step with myself in a way that feels aligned with myself and aligned with the work.
41:10And to, I guess, to feel at peace in whatever the work is that needs to be made. Have you ever been out of alignment with yourself in this last decade with anything you've created or opportunities you've said yes to where you fall afterwards? That's not really what I wanted to do or, but I did it for ego or because whatever reason. It happens. I won't give examples. It happens. Or you catch yourself. You catch yourself on a thought of like, yeah, there's always this sort of one more stone to turn. It's like, I always approached things with like, leave no stone unturned. It's like - Do everything.
41:51Yeah. Every opportunity. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. That can be draining and exhausting. It can be draining. Yeah. And learning to say no to stuff is something that I'm still cultivating a relationship with or a habit of. I think, yeah. Or I'm a real, and I think this is an I'm proud of this trade in myself but that extra hour that I'll put in or that extra 30 minutes or that extra hour and I can I can focus hyper focus on something in that in those last few you know but but what happens is sometimes I'll agree to to do something I'll be fully in my mind of like I do want to do this it's like will you do a little bit extra here and add more rather than take this break will I use this time to work and it's like yeah I'll do that I'll do that.
42:38And then afterwards I realized, okay, why am I feeling exhausted? Why am I burnt down? And now I can't function. I can't work as I want to work. So I do want to address, hopefully get better at that. This has been a powerful section, so I'm grateful we're talking about this, but I have a question about a couple of other things around your performance experience. I feel like I hope they get to come watch you perform live sometime because I feel like it's a spiritual experience for the audience to watch what you do um I'm curious for you what has been the most spiritual experience you've had while performing on stage where you felt like something is different here I'm feeling something different uh there's an energy that is elevated at a different level that I've ever been to, or maybe I'm seeing myself from a different place or I'm forgetting the words, but I'm singing the word.
43:40Like, was there ever a spiritual experience for you that was so big and awe-inspiring while performing? There's definitely moving experiences. I was going to joke that I think the spiritual experiences for it to be in the crowd. I've been in shows and I've been in such elation. I've been like so ecstatic and kind of lifted by being in crowd energy and all enjoying the same thing. And maybe I was going to make a joke. It's like, it's a, the preacher is the least spiritual of all people, you know, at the person at the top, it's everyone else is engaging in a spiritual experience. The preacher is, I'm just kidding.
44:22But I think when I'm on stage, there's a kind of a flow state you know that you hope to to come into and that's another thing where it's like calming my mind and this is all connected it's all connected with mental health it's all connected with like wellness but then also like and mindfulness as well too and mindfulness was a big change for me was realizing how many conversations were going on how un-present my mind was you know even sometimes when i was on stage and wanting to just yeah it would it would it can happen it can happen and realizing I, you know, remaining grounded on stage, remaining present on stage.
45:05So you're not, so meditating before shows, I find really, really helpful. How would you get distracted on stage before? It can happen where, again, if I'm releasing music, there's a lot of emails that I haven't unanswered. I swear to God. Right before you're like, oh, thinking about it. Yeah. Yeah, but you could be on stage in the middle of a song playing a chord and singing lyrics. And in your mind, I'm not present in that. I'm thinking it's happened where I'm like, I didn't email back. Come on. Really? Yeah, yeah. Holy cow. Yeah. Oh, no, you're doing laundry lists in your head while you're in the middle of like singing a song and the crowd are doing their thing.
45:44How is that even possible? How do you stay? I mean, how can you create a performance while thinking about the email you got to send to Larry? Yeah. And management or something? it's not great it's like and I don't I think the show potentially my worry is at the show I think because it's muscle memory that you just can do it but it's it doesn't you don't feel great about the about the show you don't because you weren't present to it you know so it's been a while now since I would there's also that's kind of before that's when my mind was totally just like haywire so mindfulness you know meditation and stuff.
46:23And I'm super happy. That helps you keep you present now on stage. On stage, yeah. So as for spiritual experience, definitely, I mean, I was in Mexico recently. We just did a show in Mexico. Where? Which city? Mexico City. Oh man, I've been going back, my fiance's Mexican, so I've been going back and forth a lot, yeah. Yes, yeah. Congratulations. Thanks, man. Thanks. I mean, Mexico's beautiful. I love it, man. Mexico City's incredible, right? Yes, yeah. I love it. It's beautiful. And the people are just so wonderful. know, and I have never, you know, no disrespect to any other audience, but I like, there is something special about a Mexican audience like that.
47:00Now we have a tour, I've never toured South America here that Central and South America are incredible audiences. I mean, you know, but then - We have a, we have a YouTube channel in Spanish. Yes. With over a million subscribers in Spanish that this will be dubbed in Spanish as well. Oh really? Okay. And Portuguese. Oh wow. So the Spanish channel watching or listening right now, I'm sure they're like all typing in the chat. This is incredible. They're going to love you saying Mexico's amazing. I'm delighted. And it's absolutely true. I think I said it on, there's something special. There is a passion.
47:36There is an energy. There is. but to be in a city or a country that is not primarily English speaking and to hear your words to be so far from home and hear your words sang back to you my first gig in Mexico City was very very same in that songs were being sang to me louder than had ever been sang in other primarily English speaking territories yeah and I was stunned by it I was absolutely staggered by it and it's not their first language and yeah yeah and so when i'm for when i my first gig in mexico i was like this is nuts this is i've never heard a crowd singing this song i can't remember which song it was but songs that just crowds some some songs crowds will sing it to some they're not you know some not so much um i was staggered by it and then so this time around it was just a few days ago like last week man i should have but i know it i would have gone to oh my god not at all Not at all.
48:33But performing a song called Cherry Wine and the crowd had like done something really sweet. They'd handed out these red pieces of paper to put in front of their phone lights. So songs called Cherry Wine. So they had all these kind of cherry red kind of cards that they lit the auditorium with and then with their phones and just, they were just singing the song back like louder than really I'd ever heard it. And I just had one of those moments where I was absolutely present and I sort of at the same time was just like, this is nuts. Like I wrote this song. I think I brought myself back to, I was maybe 22 when I wrote that song.
49:11And, and I just kind of reminding myself, it's like, I wrote this once and I played it like to, you know, a little barn. Do I remember the first time playing this live? Like, like I just was brought back to, you know, I, I was present in two moments of like, of the beginning of that song and writing it first and performing it first and just now. And, and, uh, and I was just, I was really moved by it. I kind of had to, you know, I was, I was quite touched, um, by that support and that love. And, and, uh, so yeah, there's moments where, I don't know if I'd call it spiritual necessarily, but, um, just overwhelmingly fulfilling, you know, overwhelmingly, um, good feeling.
49:54That's beautiful. That's, that seems like a spiritual experience for me man you almost like leaped in time 14 years i guess thinking about when you were writing this in your parents attic or wherever you were at the time playing it in a pub for 17 people yeah and now people screaming it across the world back at you yeah i i was grateful also after the fact that i still i still could be that that that feeling was still fresh for me you know that and and then i i was i could allow myself into going you know what this is really sweet and i'm really enjoying this and how do you keep it fresh when you're you know doing 100 200 tour nights a year singing the same songs over and over for over a decade how do you stay present when it's not new for you even though it might be new for someone else yeah I think the challenge is staying present.
50:50And honestly, if you can stay present, it's like the same where your morning, all of us have to get up out of bed. All of us probably get up, brush our teeth, we'll make coffee, we'll whatever, get in the car and go to work, whatever. You know what I mean? Or like go about our day. You know, I don't commute necessarily, but like we all have that little, you know, We all have that thing where it's like those parts of the day which are so commonplace to us that we do them in auto mode. And if you can steer the brain into presence and your experience of that drive to work, wherever your appointment, your errands, is going to be so much more engaging.
51:40It's going to be an experience in and of itself. You'll actually experience the world around you. This is so easy. It's so much easier said than done, you know, when you're talking about mindfulness. But I think on stage, if I can be present in a song, it doesn't matter if I, and I'm truly present in that moment and I'm letting the energy kind of of the crowd kind of come through to me and through me and the energy of the song and whatever, if I'm kind of allowing a flow of that and I'm present in it, it doesn't really matter if I've sang that, you know, a hundred times or a thousand times or whatever, five times.
52:19It's like, I'm just present in it. And I think that's, it's a challenge. Wow. We had Rick Rubin on recently, who is a big producer. He's Rick Rubin. Yeah. Wrote a big book on creativity. And... I listened to the episode as well, by the way. Yeah, he's inspiring. I mean, Rick Rubin is... Have you met him? I have never met Rick Rubin. He's an aspiring man. What a force. Yeah. He was mentioning something about, you know, an artist should really be thinking about writing art for themselves as if it was their own diary, their own journal, and not writing art or making art for an audience, but making it for themselves and being willing to reveal it to the audience without the insecurity or concern of their own intimate thoughts and feelings around their piece of art, which is probably one of the hardest things to do is like putting out your soul that you're really making for you, but wanting others to experience it without being worried about criticism.
53:25How do you navigate putting art out there and being like oh I hope people like this and they don't give me negative feedback versus people are going to like it or hate it or whatever they're going to respond to it how do you navigate you feeling good about it no matter what happens to it in the world I will say before releasing it's not so much a fear but there's this sort of there's this maybe I don't experience actually where the fear is coming from but there's a terrible on ease and I think usually before releasing an album there's this awful purge of cortisol that happens and I've talked to a lot of artists about this where you're in tears before it happens and you're exhausted and the catharsis that you'd hoped you would get from it never arrives you know so there is that I think there has to be maybe there's just there is some resource that you pull from that brings you to a place where you are in absolute commitment to the fact that the work needs to exist that it is, it doesn't matter what anybody has to say something the song wants to be written the song has in some ways and i sometimes think of it like this when an idea comes through the song is asking to be written it feels ready to be to be worked on um and to deny it that is is kind of it's it's it's it going against your nature what you know you kind of have to do what you have decided you're here to do and so there's something that is willing to be made it's willing itself to be made through you and it's like you either do it don't.
55:20But don't, sorry, excuse me, don't get annoyed when somebody else has the idea. Because there's a lot of parallel thinking in the world as well too. And someone else is going to put something similar out. Exactly. Yeah. And that actually happens. I mean, artists talk about this. I've certainly experienced it. You have an idea for a song and six months later you hear it on the radio and somebody else has played with the themes that you were thinking of. And we're all living in the same, similar societies. So a lot of parallel thinking comes in because we're all have very similar simuluses whatever it is um but you have to there has to i don't know there is a there's a resource that you pull from that that is just you know this needs to be made and like what was it like you know when you came out with your first song um that was a mega hit what was the feeling before that launched versus you know the most recent unreal on earth you know is the feeling still the same, you know, 12 years later, is there a different feeling at this season of life of an artist, um, you know, before you launched the recent album?
56:22And the feeling on the first song, I was so like, I was such an unknown and that I just was watching it's, it's uptake slowly, but surely there was these moments where, okay, it was reaching another audience. So it's like, Oh my God, it's like, that's a video has been seen by 10 ,000 people. oh my god that was a huge deal for me at the time um i think it was like it got it was like on the first page of reddit or something which at the time was like you know huge it was huge you know and then it was then it was starting to be played i think some of the earliest i think the first one of the first radio stations i played in the states was like alabama mountain radio and um like it was being shazam and we were watching like somebody was telling me oh yeah it's just been shazam in like parts of the world, parts of the states that I had never been to the states.
57:08I'd never thought that I would be where the music would be heard. At this point, people in Ireland didn't know that I was an Irish artist, you know? Oh, really? Yeah, honestly. I think the song had started to be played on Irish radio, but they assumed that I was like an American import, you know, that I wasn't. They didn't know that I was from Ireland because I hadn't been releasing music all that long. And then there was this kind of dark sort of gospel rock sound, you know, in that song, this kind of swampy sort of vibe. And then, yeah, so it's different. You know, I think there's sometimes you miss being the underdog a little bit.
57:46You know, there's a lot to be said for having... Something to that feeling, right? Yeah, having nothing to lose. The naive, like, oh, this is really exciting. It just... Yeah, yeah, exactly. and feeling like every inch you gain is a huge deal and is a big win and you've nothing to lose and you can prove everything, but also if nothing happens, it's like, it's okay. Go away, come back when you're ready. You know what I mean? So it's trying to maintain that. Maybe there's something to be, you can still maintain that sort of mindset a little bit of like, I think when you, and this is also maybe something that you can it's good to practice or to investigate or think about is when the stakes seem higher or you've like on your second or third release you feel like if it doesn't do something for you that it's somehow you know it could be a success by the metrics of what you would think beforehand or anyone else's but you create this idea I don't know you just you want more from it or you know so that's how do you navigate that like when you launch you know an album and it doesn't do the numbers in your mind like well I hope it does this many downloads are strange in the first month or year yeah if it doesn't do that or if it does do that how do you navigate that expectation I think it's always just about I try to just bring myself right back to because you do and you look you work with you partner up with business like labels and stuff like that.
59:20And they wanted to win. You know, yeah. And they're competitive by nature. And it's great that you have a team that thinks like that, that wants to bring your work to a large audience. And there's a lot of different ways that different artists will think about this, independent artists maybe, you know. And what I have settled on is that if I believe in the work, I want to give it every chance that it can reach as many years as possible and let those ears decide and I just try to bring it back to the work do I believe in it if I believe in it and I love it enough that I feel it's worth releasing it's worth being out in the world I'm at peace with it whether somebody listens to it or it doesn't I'm at peace with it if nobody listens to it there's some songs that I'm quite proud of such that if they were heard by a hundred people I would say that song is still of the quality and that I wanted it to be on the quality of the work doesn't change whether it's listened to listened by a million people or a billion billion times or it's listened by a thousand thousand people or a hundred people or ten people the quality of the work doesn't change wow so I just try to bring it down to am I happy with the with its quality that's beautiful I think that's a good uh lesson for any artist yeah author or anyone it's like are you happy with the quality Yes, if you have a career or a business around it, sure, you want to figure out a way to make money and survive.
1:00:50But I think you have to be proud of the quality of work, no matter if it sells millions of copies or one copy. Totally. Totally. Does it represent you? That's beautiful. Yeah. Man, Andrew, there's a lot I would love to talk more about with you. We'll have to have you back on another time. But I want people to check out your new album, Unreal on Earth. I want them to come to watch you live on tour man which I'm going to do one of these days they can go to hosier.com for your tour dates and everything like that is right? Yes, yeah unfortunately not many shows left they can get notified but you do do more exactly but they can listen to music you're on YouTube, Instagram social media everywhere hosier everywhere um how else can we be of service to you and support you today oh my goodness and i think you've been of great you've given me a huge amount to think about and um offered offered wonderful space for reflection um but not not at all no like you've just been been your wonderful self and thanks thank you for yeah thank you for inviting me in of course leading always with a very very open heart you know of course man we're doing it together man um i've got two final questions for you but i want people to go to your website where where where's the best place to listen to your music is it spotify is on your website is it um where do you recommend people listen i mean they can you can listen on spotify you listen on title and you know uh where's your preferred place um does it matter i mean it's i mean the sound quality on title is better i'm sorry spotify look it just is and uh and you know like vinyl is obviously going to be the the the best.
1:02:34I mean, honestly, I don't really mind, I think, anywhere that people want to listen to it. If they enjoy it, if they're vibing with it, I'm thrilled. Anyway, yeah, yeah. Share with your friends, listen to it, share with your kids. Before I ask these final two questions, Andrew, I want to acknowledge you because I know it's hard for you to receive compliments, but I want to acknowledge you for the journey you're on. I think artists have a big opportunity to inspire and impact, but I also think there's a lot of pressure for artists to be the perfect role model and say all the perfect things all the time, especially at younger ages.
1:03:07So I want to acknowledge you for your journey of being true to yourself and sharing your art with the world, having the courage to make art and put it out there, even if it's nervous for you, even if you get scared before you go on stage and you keep showing up for the little Andrew in you, the current Andrew in you, and for the audiences that love the art that you've created for yourself. So I want to acknowledge you for your journey and being willing to reflect and look within over these last few years for yourself and allowing yourself to heal or navigate whatever emotions you're feeling. So hopefully you can continue to serve in a bigger way to humanity and yourself and your friends for many years to come.
1:03:47So I acknowledge you for all of it, Andrew, and just really, really great to meet you and pleasure to have you on. You too. You too. Of course. Okay. Two final questions. This is called the three truths. It's a hypothetical scenario. Imagine you get to live as long as you want, but it's your last day on earth. Live as long as I want, but it's the last day on earth. So you're a hundred, you're 200. How old would you want to be? Okay. We're going into the future and you get to create all your dreams. They all come true. You make the art, you have the family, the lifestyle, whatever it is you want to have, you create it.
1:04:22But for whatever reason, on this final day of life, you have to take all of your work with you. So all of your music, we don't have access to it anymore. This conversation, gone. Hypothetical. Anything you create, for whatever reason, you got to take it with you to the next place when you pass on. Hypothetical scenario. But you get to leave behind on this final day three lessons, three things you know to be true, and you feel is true for you, that you would leave with the world. And this is all we have to remember you by, your content. If you can, like you went back in time when you're on stage thinking of that song that you wrote 10, 12 years prior, and you felt that time playing it in the pub for the first time on stage 12 years later, when everyone's screaming it back to you.
1:05:09If you can jump forward 70, 80, a hundred years to the final day and think about all the lessons you'll I've learned, what would be those three lessons or truths for you? I want to finish with an easy question. So easy. Oh my God. I was like, um, three lessons or three truths.
1:05:38I would say one is. is to and this is difficult for a lot of people I think in the kind of hyper real spaces or the spaces like social media and stuff like that is remembering that each human being that you are witnessing their lived experience is as authentic and as deep and as real as you're all you know, that their suffering and their internal narrative, whatever whether they've done their healing or they haven't done their healing yet that they are experiencing a lived experience that is as deep at times as dark and as frightening as you're all you know and the reality of that just to remind yourself of the reality of that I would like to say that at the same time and this is something I kind of borrow from Seamus Heaney's Nobel when he won the Nobel Prize in his speech it's a beautiful lecture it's called Crediting Poetry and he references a massacre from Northern Ireland and in this he's referencing a massacre that took place but and he talks about a poem and how what the poem knows essentially like so what in the same way that the poem can credit it bears witness to in this one instance it can bear witness to it bears witness to and knows a massacre is going to happen in its telling of this story it also must and can at the same time bear witness to and credit the gentleness in this instance of of the comforting of one person the squeeze of a hand and in this instance i encourage anybody to read this is is crediting poetry poetry lecture and this i will not abandon you and squeeze of the hand that happens between these two co-workers just before the massacre takes place.
1:08:04And so he describes this beautifully as at the same time that the work can credit, and we often do, we credit and we bear witness to and we represent and we tell the story of the horror and the hatred and the massacre. At the same time, we can, and maybe it's imperative that we credit that there is the squeeze of the hand there is the tear that is that comes from a place of love and comes from a place of compassion and empathy so it's it's it's you know i would say the actuality of love the actuality of solidarity not in any sort of wishy-washy um sort of air airy fairy type thing is that there is there we we we don't question the actuality of violence we don't question the actuality of hatred but we don't really take seriously the actuality of solidarity that we we think of it in the sort of lofty political terms but it's like the love that you have for your neighbor or your or your spouse or your child or your best friend that's showing up for people that um i won't abandon you in this you know so it's um and in the same way that it work can credit one, it can and must credit the other.
1:09:26And that's a beautiful thought that I would say that there's a truth in that. We're in a limited space, you know, we're on a limited rock here. You know, I think, I often think that the ways that we go about and look, we deal in business, we work with different people in business. and there is in this moment a kind of a perpetual and look I don't want to get too political but we sometimes think in terms of this sort of secular trance of the perpetual growth model we're in a limited space here we there is a commons that we all share in the world that it is and I think I just think it's a there is a huge amount still of investigation and really like investment into the thinking of viewing the world as a commons, as a shared space that we just have to, that we can't just extract from, that we'll have to arrive at some point to some sustainability practice, be that.
1:10:38Sustainable economics, sustainable resource management, et cetera. That's something that really and again it's in the abstract increasingly not in the abstract but i i get so sad at the idea of for what humanity is and and how far the chance of of this earth becoming what it's become like what us as human beings us evolving into this to have awareness to have meaning to have a sense and the fact that we could actually be at risk of of of potentially of um to the point where you know we consume ourselves or we into some sort of into some dark age or into an extinction event you know it's like really very sad over consumption of everything yeah yeah it just makes me very very sad that we could lose yeah the progress of you know of society as we know you know right so yeah I think that was one other thing I probably had something far more nice it's all good more artistic to say than that, but yeah, that's that.
1:11:39It's all good. That's beautiful, man. Andrew, final question for you. What is your definition of greatness? I think, and again, it's a tricky one for me, and it is a commitment to one's mode of being. That is, it's a mode of being. It's a commitment to an alignment of the heart and the mind and the spirit in either the work that you make in the ways that you deal with people in the way that you engage with your community and be you know and I think it's one that is to me I've no sheer definition but it's one that is marked with a a mode of grace and good faith, you know. But if you look, it's not always easy, but I think if you can bring that to the work that you're making or the engagements that you have in the day to day, good faith and good grace with people around you.
1:12:50Yeah. And in some form of alignment with your heart, mind and body. Great. I think that that is, if you can maintain that mode of being, I think, I think, um, well, I think we all know people who managed to do that. And there's people in our lives that we, that we witness sometimes and we're like, you know what, that's a really great person. And it may not be that they are on the way to some sort of what we imagine to be success or something like that, or some sort of global or international sense of, it's not that they're achieving some outrageous monetary or financial success, but there is in their being something that we just, we can't help but admire.
1:13:36that they are either in their community or in their family, to their friends, in their place of work, that there is something undeniably great about that person. And I think those, to me, are some of the markers of it. There you go. My man, Andrew, thanks for being here, brother. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Powerful, man. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. If you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts.
1:14:16Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.
From the publisher
Today, we're joined by the incredibly talented musician, Hozier. At just 24 years old, Andrew Hozier-Byrne captured the world's attention with his hit song 'Take Me To Church.' We'll explore how he navigated the immense success and pressure that followed, and whether he experienced imposter syndrome amidst the praise. Andrew will also share his insights on balancing the desire to serve his audience while staying true to his art, and how he learned to prioritize his passion for music over chasing chart rankings. Now, let’s dive into today’s powerful episode with Hozier!
Listen to his new album, Unreal, Unearth - OUT NOW!
In this episode you will learn
- Strategies for navigating the pressures success and maintaining authenticity in your life.
- The importance of self-reflection and personal growth in overcoming challenges and evolving over time.
- Techniques for sustaining energy and enthusiasm in demanding careers and long-term projects.
- The role of spirituality and emotional connection and how to connect with large audiences on a deeper level.
- Insights into the creative process and the mindset required for successfully releasing and promoting new work.
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