Jada Pinkett Smith Reveals All: Family, Relationships, Loss & Light

0:00My friend, I am such a big believer that your mindset is everything. It can really dictate if your life has meaning, has value, and you feel fulfilled, or if you feel exhausted, or if you feel exhausted, or if you feel exhausted, or if you feel feel fulfilled. results from the lessons in the book. If you haven't got a copy yet, you'll learn how to build a plan for greatness through powerful exercises and toolkits designed to propel your life forward. This is the book I wish I had when I was 20, struggling, trying to figure out life, 10 years ago at 30, trying to figure out transitions in my life, and the book I'm glad I have today for myself.

0:48Make sure to get a copy at lewishouse.com slash 2023 mindset to get your copy today. Again, lewishouse.com slash 2023 mindset to get a copy today. Also, the book is on Audible now, so you can get it on audiobook as well. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. When it came to those suicidal thoughts, yes, something needed to die, but it wasn't me physically. What was it? It was the thoughts around myself, how I felt about myself that I had to rehabilitate. Wow. That I'm still rehabilitating. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.

1:37And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

1:53Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Jada Pinkett Smith in the house. You are an Emmy Award winning host, Red Table Talk, executive producer, actress, and Time Magazine, 100 Most Influential People in the World. and you have had an incredible life story, specifically even more that has come up in the last year, year and a half with you that we were just talking about. And your book is so empowering and inspiring because you open up about everything. You go in there and in the first opening of the book, you captivated me. You caught my attention because you talk about the success, the fame, the accolades, but also a story about looking over a cliff, asking yourself, you know, am I going to be able to survive if I actually drove off this cliff?

2:48Right. Talking about decades of depression, stress, anxiety, but on the outside, everything looks like you've got it put together and things are perfect and you're succeeding at at the highest level. But on the inside, you were facing a lot of depression and what sounds to be a lot of darkness. I'm curious, how can someone with that much success, fame, money, and what seems like the perfect marriage and family dynamic struggle so much internally? How does it get to that place? Yeah. And I think one of the biggest false perceptions is that all of those exterior things can heal, you know, your traumas, you know, can heal what's happening on the inside.

3:38I thought the same thing. I asked myself the same question. How can you have all this going on for yourself and feel like this? Right. And I felt so much shame about it, which compacted what was happening to me. And everybody else around me was asking the same question. What is wrong with you? You have everything. Right. And so I tell a story when I'm 21 and how I basically have a nervous breakdown. That was the first time where I was so overwhelmed by these dark emotions that came over me that those suicidal thoughts just flooded in. And I thought that I remember having to call my mother and said, mommy, get out here now or I'm going to kill myself.

4:28Wow. You know, and my mother at that time was fresh in her. She was fresh in her recovery. Right. And so she had to figure out a couple of things, you know, as far as work, because, you know, she's just getting on her feet. She's nursing, what have you. So then I called my girlfriend, MC Light, and I said, Light, I need you right now. I don't feel safe with myself. You're 21 at this point. I'm 21 at this point. And Light came out immediately just to hold me down until my mother could get there. and I from that point on never really you know during that time no one was really talking about first of all suicide surely not in a black community that is like sue what it's like toughen up and yeah like get it together and it just wasn't heard of it's like oh you you then you really belong in the cuckoo house you know what I mean depression was not depression was not talked about, you know, and it's it's so funny how it shows up in our community.

5:38Like I always tell people like, you know, that angry black woman syndrome that people talk about. I said, no, that's a lot of despair. That's a lot of despair. That anger basically comes into the picture because it's the anger that keeps you going. Right. Because you can't go into the despair because the despair will take you out. Right. We don't have that luxury because we got to put food on the table. We got to keep it moving. Right. And so, you know, for a lot of us who are single moms or what have you. And so I'm not a single mother, so I shouldn't say a lot of us. I'm thinking about my mother and my experience of being raised by a single mother.

6:19Right. Right. And so, you know, and for me, I think that I had a lot of that and I have a lot of that, which is why even to this day, it's very difficult. I was talking to somebody the other day and they were like, you, you know, you have a lot of PTSD and a lot of trauma. And I said, you know, it's still very difficult for me to, like, embrace that as true. You know what I mean? And so I just was in so much denial. And I felt like how you felt and how many people feel, which is like, get it together. You have everything. How dare you? And not only that, look at all these people who are still in the struggle.

7:15They don't feel like this. And they don't have what you have. They don't have what you have. How dare you? Right. So it's almost more shame. It's more shame. Right? And so, and it took me years to realize that doesn't have anything to do with it. Wow. You know? But I struggled and beat myself up for a long time to the place that I just got to, like, I want out. Out of what? Out of life. Wow. I don't want to be here anymore. You know? How old were you then? 40. My 40th year. 40? So I just turned 40 this year. Yes. So your 40th was like essentially two decades of stress, anxiety, depression, shame, overwhelm, guilt.

8:02But also on the outside, looking like you had it all together. You know, all the success and the relationship and the fame and the movies and TV and all these different things, right? Yes. So 40 was a time where you felt like, I want out of all of it. all of it again because i had been struggling with suicidal thoughts for a long time and um but you never thought about actually attempting it well i think at 40 i was just like okay i got my plan you know i started looking at like where i could because i didn't want my kids to think that i had taken my life so i was like how do i how do i plan an accident that's crazy You know, and I was like just looking for like cliffs.

8:45Wow. You know, looking for places that I could just drive my car off of. And I was like, all right, it's got to be high enough that I don't survive, you know. And so once I devised my plan, I was like, okay. And as morbid as that sounds, having a plan gives you like, okay, let me see what tomorrow looks like. Because I got my plan. Wow. You know? And when I turned 40, it was like I never imagined reaching 40. Really? Never imagined reaching 40. So not only was I dealing with all this depression, what have you, but I didn't see a vision for my life past 40. It was just blank. Interesting. I had no drive.

9:34I had no desire. or I had... And I was just like... And when I tell you, like, I would look down that road of like, okay, what is life for you now? When I tell you I saw nothing. And that was scary too. Wow. Why do you think you didn't have a vision after 40? I never thought that I would make it. This is a really unfortunate thing. Make it in your career, make it in your relationship, make it in life. like survive life survive life wow you know what i mean like there had been so many people that i loved that didn't make it right you know and i was just like okay my day was like and as crazy it sounds you're thinking you live hot you live fast and then life's done you know what i mean It's like something's going to happen.

10:30And I was like, yo, you made it to 40? What the f***? What? You know what I mean? It's like you made it to 40. And I didn't see anything. Wow. What was that like on your 40th birthday when you were celebrating or reflecting on your life for the last decade? Usually we reflect on the last year. It's a decade we're reflecting on. But it sounds like you're reflecting on your life. It was really hard. That was a really, really difficult time. I mean, I remember Will had, he had like put together this huge party, you know, because yeah, he loves to advertise everything. He's just, you know, he loves building memories.

11:12And I remember having to tell him, I just, I can't. I just, I didn't have it. I didn't have it in me to pretend. And I didn't have it in me to be around people that I didn't have it. You know, and I was in really bad shape. I was in really bad shape. What were the thoughts that were on repeat during that time? What would you think to yourself or say internally or out loud about you to you? I would. It was really, you know what? But it was really just having the energy to every day waking up was doomsday. It was like I, you know, it was just like, it was like having to get, it was the worst part of my day.

12:07Waking up. Waking up. Holy cow. And getting out of the bed, you know, it was like having like three Mack trucks and chains to my shoulders, just like. you know it's like and just like how am i gonna get through this day right because your kids were what probably they're almost teenagers or something around then or early teens were like pre-teens yeah yeah so they had challenges that they're dealing with and adolescence and figuring out life and you're but they were pretty easy thank god you know i mean like they were like easy you know and at that time. Sure, sure. You know, and... So your biggest enemy sounds like it was you.

12:51My biggest enemy was me. You know, and just really just... And people around me knew something was wrong, but they just couldn't put their finger on it. Like, they couldn't understand, like, what the f*** is going on with you? But it was clear that I was not happy. You know, and it wasn't just like, I'm not happy. It was like, I wasn't happy. Like I couldn't, you know, but people just didn't have any understanding. We weren't talking about mental health issues at that point. When you were 40, no one was talking about it publicly. Oprah wasn't even talking about it. It's like, if Oprah's not talking about it, it's like.

13:31It doesn't exist. Yeah, exactly. You know. That's interesting. So did you feel like people were there for you though, like in your relationships or or will? Did you feel like I had supportive friends and family members who were showing up for me, but I just wasn't able to get out of my depression or sadness? I don't know if people really knew how to. I'd have girlfriends go, hey, what's wrong? You're not yourself. You can talk to me. I didn't know how to talk. So you weren't communicating. I didn't know how to communicate. you know what I mean and so even like when people are dealing with people who are depressed or you have people who've attempted suicide or unfortunately people who actually do succeed like I didn't know and I'm like I get it because a lot of times you don't know what's going on with you you don't know how to communicate and you have so much shame and fear and fear you know and you just don't know how.

14:37And I was a high-functioning, you know, person suffering from depression. Nobody was, listen, and that was also confusing. Because I'm succeeding here. I'm crushing you. I'm getting up. I'm not in a corner balled up. Like, people think depression is just, you know, you're in a corner, balled up, you can't get up, you don't want to get out of bed. Of course, I had those feelings, but I got out of bed. What drove you to get up and get out of bed? My kids. So they at least gave you the purpose and vision daily. My kids gave me purpose. They kept me going. If you didn't have your kids, where did you?

15:19I didn't have my kids. If I didn't have my kids, I don't think I would have made it through those dark times. Wow. Yeah, no. I can honestly say that wow they kept me going in your book again it's amazing how much you open up the whole thesis is about worthiness becoming worthy owning your worthiness you talked about I think it was like you met with all the shamans all the nuns all the priests any spiritual leader you could find any practice, any philosophy you tried it. Anything. Anything. From all those, you know, workshops and exercises and one-on-one conversations. And moon ceremonies. Yes.

16:07And howling at the moon, whatever it is you're doing, you know, what was the biggest awakening for you with all those experiences? What was the, the reoccurring theme that kept kind of whispering or speaking to you as a reminder of what you needed to know or hear? So I knew, I knew that there was a higher power. I knew that. I didn't have the, I was like, I just needed to figure out how to get access to it. I know it's there. You know, studied the Bible for three. I'm talking about backwards and forwards. I studied it from a historical point of view. I studied from as a theologian. I studied, I tried defining those like the mysticism of Christianity, which I'm still into.

17:01Sure. And I was like, but I don't know God. Wow. I don't have a personal relationship with God. Like I'm not God. I'm not feeling you. You didn't feel a connection. I didn't feel the connection. I understood how where Islam was created, Judaism, Christianity, Sufism, Sikhism, you name it. All it because I love religion anyway. But I was like that that knowledge wasn't giving me the connection. There's a difference in the intellect, understanding the theories, understanding how things are developed versus being immersed and absorbed in that spiritual energy that you feel held and you feel that you know God is with you.

17:57Wow. Right? You feel a sense of peace. You feel peace and you feel like I don't have to do this alone. I don't have to do this alone. And on top of that, there's so much more going on here than I could even imagine. You know what I mean? And, okay, God, I'm going to put my trust and my faith in you, right? It took me until I was 40. Wow. To start that process. No, I had been going through that whole process before 40. And it's when I hit 40 that my son Jaden came into the kitchen and he said, Mom, you got to come in the living room. Moises and Mateo are talking about an experience their dad had in Peru.

18:49And I said, okay, because my kids know I'm a seeker. You know, I'm all trying all kinds of things, you know what I mean? And so they tell me about this experience that their dad had. with a medicinal plant called ayahuasca, right? And I'm like, whoa. I'm like, is your dad in town? They're like, yeah. I was like, call your dad, see when he can come over here and talk to me. Now, I'd known their father for a while, and when I saw Caesar... Oh, Caesar Milan. No, no, no. No, not Caesar Milan. That's not Caesar Milan. I know two Caesars. Got you, got you. Their dad, his name is Caesar as well. Got it, got it.

19:29And he came and he spoke to me, And he said, and I saw, like, people, when they have, you know, it's like, when people are immersed, they don't have to talk about it. You feel it. You see it. It's all over them. And I was like, I'm looking in his eyes. I'm looking at him. I'm like, he's different. His energy. His energy. His way of being, his presence. His way of being, his presence. I like, I need that. I want that. I want that. right i need that light yeah it was clarity and it was light interesting right and i was like i want that and i asked for the universe to give me that and within a month the universe opened a door for me to have my own ceremony and that's where the book at the beginning when i'm like okay i'm gonna go and do the ceremony you know what i mean what was your experience what opened up for you during that ceremony?

20:31I got to see, first of all, and I'm not saying that this is a cure for anyone who's suffering what I was suffering, because I will say this, I don't believe that the plant ayahuasca is for everyone, right? I just don't believe that, Right. It has to be a real calling. And I went through a night of hell where I was confronted with the shadow of my own mind. I was confronted with those thoughts to the point that I thought I was possessed. Holy cow. Right. So the thoughts are like, kill yourself. Do it. Right now. Nobody needs you. You're not needed. You're not wanted. Kill yourself. Right. And I mean, this is like bombarding me like and I can't escape these dark voices.

21:34Right. I will come to find out that. I was confronting my internal voice of my lack of self-worth. Wow. Right? Deep, right? And yes, those voices can have energetic fields, right? But that it was me. And I had to surrender the next night because that was supposed to be my last night. Right. I was supposed to do three nights. And that was my last night. And I remember looking at the medicine woman that I was working with. And I said, I can't go home like this to my children. Whatever is on me, whatever this, you know, energy, this demon. You got to get off. It's got to get off. Yeah. Right. And not realizing, no, that's you, boo.

22:35Right. But that next night when I went back in, I got to see that. That's when the light came in. You know, I had to just sit in that stillness. I had to sit in that trust. And it was the first time that I got to feel God. Wow. Really? Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, I will preface with this. I mean, I love that you said, you know, the plant medicine isn't for everyone and it's not a healing solution for everyone. That's right. I think it's an opener. to see certain things. That's right. And I think it's really important to be mindful of who you're doing it with and make sure you don't go home without clearing the energy and all those things.

23:15I've never done it personally, but I know a lot of people have and some people have not recovered from it fully. Absolutely. So I just want to put that out there as a point to say, but it sounds like you had the wisdom, the clarity to say, I need to finish this to make sure that there is light within me. And I'm not trying to have these thoughts of like, you need to kill yourself. You're not worthy. You're, you know, you don't belong here. Yeah. And what - I just knew I was in the middle of a passage. Yes, of course. Yeah, of course. And there's darkness in that passage. It was, I was in the valley of the shadow of death, right?

23:48Wow. Big time. What opened up for you when you started to see your own light within you? What was the focal point that stayed with you today? Because it sounds like you didn't have that light within you for decades. No, decades. Maybe since you were a little girl. I got to see that we're all made of light. Mm-hmm. You know? And that I got to see that the mind,

24:19you got to be careful with the mind, and that it's the spirit to cultivate, and the mind should follow the spirit. The spirit is not, the mind is not the leader. you know, and so it was readjusting, right? Making the spirit in you the leader? Make it like really learn, like I was like, oh, I've been depending on a level of intelligence, like, oh, if I know about this, if I know about Christ, if I know about the, you know, Muhammad, you know, the prophet, you know, blessings and peace upon his soul. it's like if I know all of these things then I'm going to be good because I'm smart

25:13knowing is not fully believing and owning right and so it was like cool I know these things but I'm still not doing it I know these things great now you got to cultivate spirit and heart you had to cultivate that how did you learn to cultivate that oh now that's a whole nother process right i'm still learning you never arrive right so throughout the book i'm talking about the process it's like it more so in like the um you know i really get into it in uh the chapter surrender. You know, I've been, I've been on this journey. Listen, I've been on this journey since day one, right? It's just that along the way, you know, different gates opened up, you know, and we learn along the way what to get out of the way in order to get closer to that, which is more true.

26:16You know what I mean? And so that night of Aya was the beginning of the next gate of like, okay, great. You've got intelligence about all these religions. Bravo. Now you got to integrate. Now you have to apply and now you have to learn how to cultivate a relationship with the great Supreme. Yeah. And it's almost unlearning the last 40 years of your life that has been so familiarized in your book where you talk about, you know, this familiarity of trauma and chaos in life. You mentioned the word chaos and trauma in relationships, in life, in family dynamics. It's like this familiarity. Just because it's familiar doesn't mean it's healthy or the best thing for you.

27:04Right. And that's the thing. It's like people go, I hear it all the time. Didn't you see the signs? And it's like, pause. Let's talk about signs for a minute. You don't know a red sign. If that red sign is familiar. If it's all you know. If it's all you know. Right. So now you got to unlearn some things to go. Oh, right. That is a red flag. Right. You know, it's like, OK. Right. It's like, but so it's such a process of peeling back, trusting, peeling back, trusting, wanting to step out of that which you see as familiar. You know what I mean? So challenging. And challenging. Oh, it is like, oh, it is excruciatingly challenging, like, to have to leave all that you trust.

28:06Look, that's what you call your quintessential extreme midlife crisis. Wow. Yeah. OK, I went into an extreme because it felt like I've been in crisis. Your whole life. Right. So 40K was like, chick, we're going hard. Wow. We're going hard. Wow. I'm going to have to, you know, the great Supreme was like, all right, I'm just going to crack your head wide open. You know, because the thing that I realized, too, is like when it came to those suicidal thoughts, yes, something needed to die, but it wasn't me physically. What was it? It was the thoughts around myself, how I felt about myself that I had to rehabilitate.

29:03Wow. Right? That I'm still rehabilitating. Well, you're not perfect yet, Jaina? No. Wow. I'm trying, though. It's a journey. I'm trying. I don't even know if we should be trying to be perfect. No, and you can't. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah. In this human form, we're not meant to be perfect. When we get to perfect status, guess what? We don't need to do this. We're gone. We're gone. We're gone. We're gone. You know, you mentioned something before. You're on this journey, this process. And for me, I've been in a healing journey for the last few years. and my coach therapist said, you know, healing is always going to be a journey.

29:38You know, it's always going to be a different level of letting go and surrendering of something that was of allowing something in your ego to die of transforming it again, of forgiveness, of peace, of grace, of yourself and those around you or society, the world politics. Like there's always going to be an ego death. We're going to have to need to go through and keep healing. Right. It's Right? We think we've got to figure it out. It's like, oh, the university. Oh my God, something for you. So I think it's, you know, I love that you're on this journey. And I'm curious, when you turned 40 and all this went down, if there was a scale, a self-worthiness scale that you could reflect on and think of where you were at at that time, 10 being the highest level of worthiness and one being, you know, not at all, where were you on that scale of self-worthiness at 40?

30:31After Aya? before when you had your 40th birthday oh I was I was below zero below negative I was negative even though you were able to create and have a you know all this success on the outside looking great yep money and fame and all these different things you are negative in the worthiness category so I'll tell you the thing that I've learned about that is that you can have capabilities that you're really good at. Talents. Talents. But that doesn't feed the totality of your self-worth. You go, oh, I'm good at that thing. And people find value in me and that thing. Right? Oh, people think, you know, I can act and I can dance.

31:27And so you want to do more of it. okay want to do more of it right i talk about this in the book too so in my teens i'm driving i'm driven i'm good i can hustle i can you know i got talent you know i got girth i can go to la i can make something of myself get to la bus through doors skyrocketing

32:01still nothing still feeling like I could tell I'm like so you mean to tell me I gotta sing and dance for people to love me and that pissed me off they love me for my talent they love me for my talent even like a father who didn't want to raise me wanted to now be in my life and I got to see that's not true. It's not authentic. It's not authentic. So people finding value in you for your capabilities, we know within our soul, that's not us. That's not the thing we're asking to be loved for. We know it innately. Right? And so it doesn't feed that authentic place of self-worth. Right. What do you feel like has been the thing over the last decade that has allowed you to build self-worth?