Jay Shetty on Love & Money: Make Relationships Work When One Earns More | (Awkward Therapy Session)

34:58This is what we're focusing on. I'm the one who's strategizing where we're heading. So now if you look at it, we're equal. Exactly. But if you're looking at one thing. Just money. It doesn't work. Just money. It doesn't work like that. You got to be thinking about the contribution for your role and responsibility in the relationship. Yes. And again, if we come from the basis of relationships are about giving, not about receiving. 100%. If we come into that mindset, because a lot of us get into it because we want to feel something, as opposed to create and give something and contribute something.

35:26So we just have to shift our thinking around how we can serve in the relationship first. But we also don't want to be thinking, okay, I need to be serving in so many ways, and I'm not going to receive anything. And I'm going to be paying for everything, showing up emotionally. This person is emotionally unregulated constantly. I have to clean up everything around the house. This person doesn't want to do it. There's an imbalance then. And that's when you're going to have a lot of conflict. frustration stress and you'll be asking yourself why am i in this relationship yeah and that's why i think you have to look at it this broadly because if you just look at one thing like same with same with radhi if she looked at it as just who's doing the housework and making sure the fridge is stocked and everything then she would think she's doing way more than i am that you don't help around the house ever you don't pick up after yourself whatever this is what we do we just focus on the one thing we're getting right and we're measuring our partner based on that one thing yes and that is the recipe for disaster in a relationship is this do you have an assessment of these five things in your book yeah this assessment is broken down yeah like how to value each of those five things equally because we see money as more important than uh emotional and mental support well money is a big thing because money equals your time yeah and your life time is your life and so if you're say here's an example i was in a previous relationship um i won't say which one, but I was in a previous one where, uh, the person I was dating wanted me to buy them a car and we had just, you know, we hadn't been dating that long.

37:00Right. And it didn't make sense to me. This person also had their own money. So they had money to buy their own car, but they wanted me to buy their car. And it didn't make sense because we, we weren't in harmony at that time. So we were already kind of stressed out. I wasn't even sure of the future. And it was a big issue for this person. And I remember thinking, okay, let me explore this. You wonder what type of car do you want, but how much? Like, it was like, she wanted me to buy her like a 50, 60 ,000 car. I go, that's a lot of money and you can pay for this on your own. But she just had it in her mind that the man was supposed to pay for things that was in her mind.

37:33Right. Even though she had money was. And so I was like, well, I don't have peace. So why should I be paying to spend my time from the past to work hard to pay for something when there's not peace, when there's, there doesn't feel like an equal exchange of like shared values. So I think we got to understand like, what it is you want, what you're willing to provide for and pay for, you know, money is your time and your life. You know, you work hard and you go in the studio and you record things and that takes days of your life. And if you invest that money into something that isn't serving the relationship for greater purpose, then essentially you're wasting, you're, you're spending money on things that don't serve you to cause you more stress and you're wasting your life.

38:20Yeah. Wow. That's what it feels like. So money gets to be really, it is important. Yeah. It shouldn't be devalued in that. And I, and Martha also says to me, you know, she makes a great point. And so I'm going to say on the other side of things, she's like, listen, and I don't need her to financially pay the same amounts right of things it's not what i want and she said to me no i i do a lot of things around our home and i'm and phone calls with people and that is time and time is money where i'm not making money totally so i am coordinating things i'm on the phone i'm scheduling i'm making sure this is taken care of so you don't have to worry about it yeah and it is her time which is money and so it's acknowledging that for that if you're a woman and you're contributing in a lot of ways with your time you may not be spending the money to buy things but that time is money essentially it is your life so i had a friend the the woman was a doctor performing really well and he was a lawyer when they met and he was crushing it so they were like both high earners doing really well for themselves then what happened was he was going through a personal issue of depression and and challenges and you know going through his own mental health journey and at that point he could no longer function at work like he just couldn't function it wasn't even that he didn't want to it was that he just didn't find like he could function and so he stepped away and stopped making money and stopped making money and at that point I remember talking to them and asking them if she was okay with it and she goes I didn't marry him for that I was with him because he was always there to listen to me he always understood me he always valued me and I love being a doctor.

39:59I love the work I do. And if it means that I'm going to be the breadwinner forever, I'm good with that. And to me, that was just this really healthy look at what a long-term relationship is, because you don't have any idea of the highs and lows that are going to come on either side. And one of the things you just mentioned to me, this I love, this I got shown years ago. And I bring it up because it's the point you're making that I think so many people are undervalued. So there was a survey done of 6 ,000 moms. And they estimated that a stay at home mom's work, an average of 94 hours a week. And it would collect a mom's salary of$113 ,586 a year when you trade that time for money.

40:47That's true. And obviously, I'm sure that number is totally inaccurate because i think we'd all say that moms are priceless yes valueless like you can't even even if you're saying okay if you're gonna work somewhere and get a certain hourly range yeah this is what are you you've received yeah the fact that if if people and whether that's a stay-at-home mom or a stay-at-home dad if we can't see that as a massive role if we can't see a homemaker yeah as a massive role if we can't see the person who's making sure that there's food in the fridge and that there's food on the table all aspects of the role if we can't see that then we're missing the point absolutely right we're completely missing the point and i think too many of us are overvaluing and undervaluing and not looking at the complete picture of what that takes i think this is where it gets awkward you know in the awkward therapy because um well i again i just feel like it's knowing what role do you want to play in your life What is that role?

41:47Do you want to be a stay-at-home mom and that's the role you want to live? Or do you want to have kids but then go back to work three months later and be a high earner and find babysitter and daycare and find other support and try to do both? I'm not saying there's a right or wrong. You just got to know what you want and what you're best at. What is your strength? What is the role you want to play? And what consequence is this role going to have now and in the future? Could be a good consequence. But you being at work all day for 18 years of your kids' lives and then coming home at night and being there on the weekends and showing up in that way, what consequence will that have?

42:28Maybe it's a good consequence where it's like, wow, my mom did it all. She was like the boss. She was this. And she showed up for us. She was super mom. She provided. And then she was at home. She was giving and she was caring. But that's time. That's a lot of time and energy. and maybe you're not going to be as connected to your partner, your husband. Maybe you're not going to be as present in things. Maybe you're not going to be able to take care of your health as well. So there might be a consequence to whatever decision that we make. Absolutely. And I think it's knowing what we want, what our role is.

42:56And we don't always have the luxury of choosing these things. It's not like, oh, if we're struggling with money, both people might have to work, right? We may not always have this luxury of like, well, I just want to be a stay-at-home mom all day because that's what I want. You may need to work weekends and nights and things like that. So yeah sound advice and it comes back to what i think we both i think both of our philosophy is what brings the most harmony and peace in a relationship and knowing that and trying to to live into that as frequently as possible so absolutely absolutely all right so we're going to dive into this as a follow-up and going a bit deeper to push the awkward button so how do you feel about dividing up rent who should take on the responsibility and how would you feel if your partner was covering more rent than you it's all situational so there's one situation where is what if someone already owns the home okay would you feel emasculated if your partner pays for more pay for money when i feel emasculated personally yes i want to feel emasculated i feel like i'm not doing my role to the best of my ability yeah i would feel awkward personally because of my makeup and my personality and my my beliefs and my values and i would feel like there would be a dynamic that i wouldn't enjoy so it doesn't mean it couldn't work that's not what the end game would want to be and so maybe i would have less at that time and i'd be like okay this is where i'm at and it would drive me to get out of the place that i'm in it would give me a reason to kind of like overcome what i'm going through yeah um so for me that's that's how i would feel based on my just my values and my my beliefs i guess but again i don't know what do you think so i think it depends on like again it comes down to was this a place that was previously rented in someone's moving in yeah because if it's my place and i'm already renting it and then i'm inviting someone to move in with me then i've got to have that conversation up front whether they're now going to join in sure right because i'm already paying that rent yeah now is it are we actually separately renting and we want to get a place together now we're going to set that budget together and have that conversation then i think it's a great 50 50 moment yes if that's if that's where you are in your relationship and i think so much of this is defined by how confident we feel in a relationship, but I would encourage people that I think we've made love feel like if someone loves me, then they'll pay a hundred percent.

45:38I don't think that's a healthy way of measuring love. I think love - A guy could say, well, if they love me, they'd have sex with me every time I want it. They would do what I want anytime I want it. Anytime I want it. They'd cook me a meal every day. They'd have sex with me. That's what love is for me. So they need to do what I want. And it gets so messy when you have that standard. And so to me, it's having that healthy conversation of saying we want to get a place together we're going to split it or you're moving in with me hey if if if this works out if this is going in the right direction maybe we can have that conversation down the line of how we split rent like and i know these are the unsexy uncomfortable conversations but they're real like you need to have those like me and riley have those conversations right now where we're like all right well this is our mortgage payment like how are we splitting that how are we figuring that out we've got this payment how are we figuring that out there was two people that i lived with before in previous relationships that i didn't have these questions these conversations with.

46:29They were just assumed like we would figure it out because we care, we like each other, we love each other, whatever. That's the... And they ended poorly, right? It was stressful, it was exhausting, it wasn't fun and exciting, right? Yeah. And I think you've got to really ask the unsexy, boring, not fun questions before you get into living together. Yeah. Don't just casually rent together. Yeah. Don't just casually move in. Yeah. Don't just casually be like, okay, we're going to play house. before marriage unless you have these conversations this is something mar this is fresh for me because this happened yeah you know a year and a half ago i guess with with martha and myself we were dating for a few months and before we became i guess exclusively committed and we had all these questions before we got exclusively committed then we were dating for a while longer we we decided to rent an apartment together.

47:26She had a place that she owned. And I said, I'm not moving in there. There was like an option, but I was like, I don't want to move into a place that you own. It just felt weird. It felt awkward to me. What am I going to pay all the rent? Am I going to pay half the rent? Am I going to, you know, it didn't feel right. I go, let's, if we're going to do this, let's go into a new place and I will pay for all the rent. I'm pretty sure that's what we did. She, I think she paid for like utilities and other things and food. And like, we made an agreement. I was like, I feel comfortable paying for this, but I want to have support.

48:00How would you like to support? And she was like, I'm happy to pay for these things and this and take care of this and make sure all this is handled. I go, that feels great to me. This agreement around money feels really good. Then we entered the apartment that we lived in with that agreement. There was never a time where I was like, oh, I'm paying for more things and resentful and frustrated. you know what i mean so i think you got to have these conversations about what feels good for you your strengths and your roles yeah and make sure you're in agreement before entering this well i think what we're getting at here is there are these hidden expectations in relationships and when you're on the other side of a hidden expectation it breeds resentment and now it comes out in that argument at night about the tv show you're watching when that isn't the issue The issue is you feel like that person is living off of your hard work.

48:54They don't value you. But you don't want to say it to them because you want it to be the nice guy too. And so there's this whole people pleasing thing that comes into it or the hidden expectation. And I think I've been the same. It's what's always worked for me and Radhi. It's like from day one, we had these conversations. We've continued to have these conversations, even as things have changed. Because I think if you're not having these uncomfortable, difficult conversations, then I promise you, you're feeling awkward and uncomfortable. in your mind you're frustrated resentful and now that's causing way more issues so yeah how do i think the rent should be split i don't like and i think we're both this way i'm not giving people like it should be 50 50 i think numbers are a stupid thing to give people because everyone's situation is so unique yes but you've got to be having this conversation and finding out a split that you're genuinely both comfortable with and by the way if you're not comfortable say it but if you have a silly expectation for the other person hidden that oh if they love me they'll take care of everything that's not gonna work no that's that's not love yeah i mean again martha could pay for half yeah of everything yeah and she'd be fine yeah because she makes good money and she's saved her money and invested her money she's been smart for 20 years working like she's got a history of being smart with her money but that's not what i want yeah i don't want that And she's happy to receive in that way too.

50:16I want other things from her than her contributing her money 50-50. That's not what I want in a relationship. Other people might want that. I don't want that. And that's okay if they want that. That's great. Yeah. It's figuring out what brings you the most peace and harmony and less stress. Because stress is the thing that causes the most pain physically for us, mentally, emotionally. And it causes relationships to die. Yes. Stress. Constant stress causes them to die. Maybe you stay together forever, but the relationship is dead. And it's not thriving. It's not growing or flourishing. And so be very honest with the person you're dating before you get into a living arrangement about how you want to show up and provide, the role you want to play, and what will make you feel good if the other person provides in a certain way.

51:07And you may be off. Definitely. And that just may mean you need to get clear on, And, okay, do we even want to be together? This could be a big red flag. If we can't figure out how to live together, can we be together forever? Totally. Just because we love each other, we like each other, we've had good times for the last year doesn't mean you should be together. Totally. And I don't think you have to have your financial situation match your emotional state. No. Like those are two separate conversations. Yeah. Because your financial situation doesn't necessarily align with what you're feeling emotionally.

51:42like someone could be all in emotionally but they may not have the finances to align the same way as that but showing up emotionally and contributing to that way is a big value add massive and there are a lot of people that can have money but be jerks yeah and be and the other side too where i think a lot of people feel like you could be with a great person but if they can't if they don't want to work and they don't want to put in the time and have these conversations that's unhealthy too you gotta be resentful of that too yeah exactly so So love's not going to make up for either of those things.

52:13Love is not enough. Yeah, this is your - Love is not enough, man. And that's why I say I've seen relationships where women are in the - They're higher earners than the men they're with. But they're like, man, this guy shows up and he's a good guy and he shows up for my kids or this and that. But if the man is not willing in my mind to figure out a way to contribute also financially, I just think it's hard long term. I just haven't seen it work long term. Unless there's an agreement where the woman's like, I want to make all the money and I just want you to be the stay at home dad. And I want you to show up and contribute in other ways around the homes and make me feel like I just haven't seen many situations.

52:55Now, maybe that'll change. I don't know. But I have a feeling, I mean, this is awkward, but I have a feeling that women in general want a man to be able to provide in some ways financially. and if there's if they can't provide in any way financially i don't think that's what a lot of women want i think there has to be some financial contribution beyond i'm just going to show up and be a good guy and love you i just i don't know that might be the most awkward thing i said but i know i i i get what you're saying it's it's it's definitely like it will it will push some buttons for some people but i think i think what you're saying is that that's why it's so important that people reflect and really are clear about what they expect because i think a lot of people go no i don't expect i don't want that but then do you really want it right like it's and and there's a lot of things that get lost in those hidden expectations yeah and it all depends on situations i mean if you're a man that's if you're like okay i'm not going to make any money because that's not what i want but my role i can build a home i can go hunt i can do every i can provide in every other way it's all value exactly it's all value it's like how much value are you bringing this one's interesting should you share a bank account and when oh man so i remember that and this may be an indian culture thing but i remember when me and ravi got married that was really important to her and it comes from a family expectation around around this is the time when you need full transparency and full openness.

54:25I think for me, it didn't feel like a big thing. I've always been very transparent. I didn't have issues with it. I married Radhi with all the intentions of wanting to be together forever. And I saw everything we now had as ours. Granted, I did not have a lot. And so - Let's say you met Radhi now, when you had a lot of financial success in the career and the business and you just met and you know in a couple years you got married would you have that same thought if i'm completely honest and doesn't apply to radhi as a person i think it applies to meeting someone i don't think i'd be the same because i think i have so much more to lose and i have so much more not that i wouldn't if i was to marry someone i'm sure i trust them yes but i don't think that in this interaction that exchange would feel equal or accurate yeah and something you've built time we've spent together whereas you know riley was with me when i had absolutely nothing apart from myself to offer and has been with me and also never expected anything when we lived in a tiny's you know shoebox apartment in new york she was happy when we had a little place that we had in london she was happy like riley's never wanted stuff she's never asked she's never made that the way this relationship's gone so if you're meeting someone in another world and you've built the business that you have i would struggle and i see that with my i see that with friends i have like i have male friends who are far more successful than i am financially and they struggle to date because they have no idea what the person is attracted to and some of these people are public figures some of these are not public figures the ones who are not public figures can get away with it but they're also scared of like well when do do I invite the person to my house?

56:13And when do I allow them to see all this other stuff that I have? And what if they Google me and, you know, all these kinds of things. And by the way, this applies to female friends. I have too. Like I have plenty of friends who are really successful women who feel the same way about dating because they don't know as well. They're like, well, are they just trying to get friendly with the people I know? And do they just want access to my network and do, you know, are they just trying to find the person who's going to fund their next movie? Maybe they're an up and, like, where are they trying to go?

56:41So I don't think this is a gender thing. Again, I think everyone feels this, but I would say yes, that when I met Radhi, again, this does not apply to Radhi. I would have done that with anyone I married at the time because I would only marry someone I trust. I think now - But you had nothing. But I had nothing. So it wouldn't even be a thought. Yes. Because I had nothing to lose. But now you have something. Would you share a bank account? I wouldn't now. Yeah. I don't think it would be. I don't think I'd - I think there'd be parts of it, but not all of it. Right, right. Yeah. I think it's all situational.

57:11i mean yeah i'm intrigued i mean we're i mean we're in this situation right now where we i probably wouldn't have we're not married yet right so we're engaged we're not married yet but we have a home together you know we do a lot together yeah and we are intending to be married this is our vision we want to have a family all these things both also equally like people who she's got her businesses she's got her stuff and you know she's got her money i've got mine etc And so we're kind of navigating this right now because we're both older and trying to figure this out. And we created a joint account for the home.

57:50That makes perfect sense. Right? It's part of getting the loan and all these different things. Because it's a joint decision. Yes. So we created that. Now, there are certain amounts that we put in for the home that were different, but we had agreements on what we're going to do. So we have a joint account there, right? and that feels fine but we don't touch that money it's just sitting there to be able to pay the house or whatever but i i'm not going to give her my business accounts you know it's like i have a business i've been running for a long time and i don't need her i don't need access to her business accounts now when we get married i'm assuming maybe it'll make sense to create a joint account where there's a certain amount of money for certain logistics or whatever but i don't know i think i still have to figure all this out and that's the right answer because it's like same with me i'm i'm supposing that if i was i wouldn't know but you've meant a lot of words right now so we're talking about a joint business account you're talking about joint decision making no you do want a joint home like that's what i'm saying like if there's joint decision making it makes sense yes if there's joint uh purchases it makes sense like i think that's the point that how much here's my account you have access to it spend whatever you want that doesn't work for me that doesn't work for anyone right like it's so unhealthy and and i think again we look at that and go but that's not love like love would mean don't you trust me don't you want to share everything that you've built yeah and it's like well yes i do trust you that's why we're in this world together but we're talking here about decades of work yes that you don't just give away and share in a moment because of love because of love yeah and i think a lot of people look at that like well that's not love you don't love someone and i'm like i can't obviously i'm looking at it hypothetically i mean just because you love someone doesn't mean you're supposed to be married also because lots of people fall in love get married and they get divorced does that mean they didn't love each other or does it just mean they didn't align on how to make a relationship work living together with their lives together and these things can get messy that way and that's what i think you're protecting that knowing the reality of relationships and knowing that breakups divorces all these things happening all the time when you have money tied up in it it gets very messy yeah and i think that's why you know i don't know if we're gonna be talking about prenups because i i interviewed someone recently a woman who um i asked her about like she's made a lot of money later in her life right and i said is it important for women to have a prenup who make a lot of money and she said before i was making this money and i was with the guy he was making more now i'm making more and she was like it's really important for me to have a prenup now since the the financial dynamic has shifted right now she said it in a way that was like for both of us like it's for him and for me um but her thoughts on like prenups are like i think if you're making a lot of money as a woman you should have it yeah yeah now there's more to that that we unpacked but i don't want to just blanket statement this but um and for me i think it's about agreements it's about clarity and agreements.

1:00:52And again, I'm still kind of figuring this out in this process right now with myself. But I think when you have clarity of like, okay, the intention is to be together and to be together forever is when people get married, right? That's kind of the intention. It's not, let's be together for 10 years and see what happens. But I think it's also clear to say, if this, when this, how this, what will be next? And that's, you're actually protecting and honoring each other by having these conversations as opposed to just expecting again that this is what love means and i think that's where we make the biggest mistakes where we're like love to me means everything that is yours is mine everything that mine is yours okay if we both agree on that do it that's beautiful like i'm not by the way i don't think me and louis here are saying you have to have a prenup if you don't want one that's beautiful i respect that i don't have one right like we never needed one we never did one it's beautiful i'm not saying you have to have one i'm saying please have that conversation have the conversation and don't feel uncomfortable bringing it up because if someone really honors you and values you all you're doing is honoring something by the way people are prenups for like when their parents want to give them gifts 100 % yeah like let's say you're with someone and their parents are like hey when we pass on i'm going to give this gift to my child they want their the partner to sign a prenup because they're like this belongs to my son or whatever, maybe a daughter.

1:02:13I think, what do you call it a prenup or an agreement? I think an agreement creates more clarity and peace agreements all the way. And it creates freedom. You can call it a great, a prenup. You can call it a, we just want to have an agreement, whatever it is. I think people have this weird thing around a prenup. Like it's this bad thing. The word carries baggage. As opposed to, can we create an agreement that if you cheat on me and you want to leave, you don't get to take everything. Yeah. Can we just make that agreement? Like that's not fair. Yeah. Whereas if we don't have an agreement, the state has their agreements.

1:02:43Yes. I like this. I like this. The state has already made an agreement for you based on your marriage. Each state has different agreements. Do we value those agreements? Does that feel fair and right for me? And if it does, cool, we don't need a prenup. We like that they can do this, and they'll divvy it up how they want, 50-50, and they'll give us custody how they want. if we agree with their thoughts on our lives and our relationship that's a great then we'll give them power that's a great if we want to take back our power for our relationship let's create an agreement and if you turn that into a prenuptial agreement great i love that creates clarity so you're giving the state power over your relationship breakup or you create that power that's the win that's the win i love it it's just getting clear one thing i was thinking of and we don't need to go into this but it was an honest thought i think what i said about the prenup about success and prenup i actually said it for wanting people to be more thoughtful i think i'm a i've got to a place in my life and and i've always been this way is that if someone's going to take and steal from me i'm like have it i actually don't even care i might on a person if you actually asked me we've had i mean this this bar i wouldn't put live but like we've had employees steal from us of course me too man we've had like you know right of course and i've never tried to get it back cool if that's you bro take it fired take it get lost i don't care like i'm good like i'm not that guy like i'm not someone who's but if you got a hundred million in the bank and you have a partner that's like i'm gonna take everything because you hurt me yeah that's a different thing i think karmically though i'm like i know that karma will take care of that yeah i think that's how i genuinely live that's also like okay you spent 20 30 years building a business totally 100 yeah yeah yeah that's why i said it's just like you hurt me you lied to me you didn't give me what I wanted.

1:04:30Now I'm going to take everything. No, everything. That's the way people think sometimes. Or I'm going to make your life miserable to get everything that I want. Interesting side note here. There's a famous couple, I'll just say in the last few years, so I won't give it away. But there's a famous couple that I've heard, they had a prenup. and um it's a and i'm hearing that it's a very clean divorce process because they've gone through because they had the prenup and i think it was the woman's decision because she had a lot of money right so um as opposed to it's already hard enough to go through a breakup just a a romantic relationship i can only imagine how much harder it is to go through a divorce the pain the sadness the the loss of memories and the identity and the you have to split friendships now all these things if you have kids like the pain of a divorce must be tremendous yeah 100 so you know we've talked about so many things today and i feel like we've covered some really good ground and by the way me and lewis are not sitting here as experts in this space we're talking about our reflections our thoughts like our personal experiences just being vulnerable because we think we want to encourage more vulnerable conversations.

1:05:48And I'm hoping that, we're hoping that this conversation is going to make you talk to your partner, make you talk to your friends about these things and create agreements. But we want to end on this last one. And it's this idea, or even like a summarizing thought around whether we feel if we took these traditional gender roles that have been established over time away from our minds, would that actually improve our relationships or would it actually reduce our relationships? What do you think? My take is that I feel the conditioning of previous gender roles is what creates confusion. So the expectation that he should pay on the first date or the expectation that we should share bank accounts or the expectation that you should provide and I'll do this, it reduces the conversation that needs to happen because we make assumptions.

1:06:47And when you're making assumptions, you're no longer having agreements. If you didn't have assumptions, you get the opportunity to make agreements and say, let's talk about this. Let's discuss it. Today, we don't discuss. We don't talk. We don't conversate. We have expectations too. We have expectations because they've been made up by someone 50 years ago. Who were probably divorced. Yeah, exactly. Who were stressed out. divorce or whatever exactly weren't happy so that's yeah that's my take it's as simple as that that i think the conversation we've had today isn't about gender it's about this idea of can you communicate can you connect if that that's what love is the ability to have those awkward uncomfortable conversations yes courage is the key courage to know yourself and who you are courage to know what you want and not what you think you're supposed to have or what your parents want you to have, but what you want, encourage to own the role and responsibility you want to step in, the contribution you want to step into and communicate, this is who I am.

1:07:44This is who I want to be. This is where I want to go. Do you want to be in this partnership with me? Do you want to play this game? It's not a game of love, but do you want to play this game of life? It's like, we're doing this together. Are we going to be good teammates? Are we going to be in alignment on most things? or if we're not, are we going to be able to have conscious conflict, you know, and find ways to repair what you talk about so much on how to fight, which is one of the keys to you of figuring out how to have a healthy relationship. And if we can do that, I just think there's going to be a lot more harmony and peace and actual, you're going to appreciate the person you're with more and more when you have these awkward, courageous conversations with them.

1:08:25Absolutely. Absolutely. And they never stop. Never stop. Never stop. What's the most awkward conversation you've had with Roddy recently that you're like, man, we're still in this like dance together. We're still having these conversations because you guys continue to evolve. What's the most recent awkward conversation? It's a habit that I have of asking these four check-ins. So I believe that every relationship should have four check-ins. Don't you do this on Sundays? When do you do this or quarterly? There's different, yeah. So one's a daily check-in. And the daily check-in is what was your highlight of today?

1:08:58What did you learn today? it allows you to have a moment of connection with that person especially when you have a busy day and you don't see them all day i have one once a week which is uh what do you have coming up this week and how can i be aware of it let me just be aware of it how can i help you with it how can i assist you this week what do you have coming up then i have one every quarter that says what's your oh no this is this is the awkward one so the question every quarter is is this relationship going in the direction you want if it's not what are we willing to do for it that's interesting so that's the one that i ask every quarter because i think if you measure things yearly a year is way too long a time you can't measure it daily because that's over analyzing yes but somewhere in the middle there has to be that question of like well what's going what's happening in the right direction what are we willing to change what do we need to change how are we about this and i think that conversation is one that i never want to stop having because that's the only way if you've got to measure your business quarterly why are we not measuring our relationships quarterly yes you're looking at your numbers and your stats and you're analyzing and looking at the data but there's no relationship data your relationship data is what you felt like on your wedding day or your first date right and you're still using 20 year old data or five year old data for 2024 that's inaccurate and then the final question once a year is what are your goals this year and how can i help you that's beautiful man and so those are your four check-ins you can have a meaningful thoughtful and that's when you don't get surprises because you're checking in so often that you can tell the pattern with which the relationship's going yeah as opposed to like one day someone turns around after three years i want a divorce totally whereas what yeah whereas i'm hoping if you're with someone who's thoughtful if you're checking in wow they can at least give you signs.

1:10:50People would want to know in the last 10 years, I won't make it recent, but in the last 10 years of your relationship, what was a surprising response that Roddy gave you where you thought everything is fine. We're a great place or I'm just living my life and everything's smooth. Where she said, actually, this is an area that I'd like to improve for us to take a different action on. Was there something in the last 10 years where she said in that awkward question, where you're like i'm crushing in this relationship she loves me everything's great like i'm doing my thing i think it was more a change it wasn't even in the conversation we because of visas and other things ended up spending more time than we ever anticipated apart a couple of years ago and radi was stuck in london i was stuck in the u.s and we didn't see each other for nearly six months probably and that was a surprise because we didn't anticipate that like it wasn't intentional it happened because of rules and all that kind of stuff and it wasn't something we wanted at the time like we weren't like oh yeah we're busy we'll take some you know it wasn't that and spending that time apart was just a massive shock and surprise because we were at like our best before we ended up in this position and i felt like that distance made us have to work so much harder because six months is a long time and this is what i mean by the regular check-ins it's what i mean by the constant communication it's what we mean by these agreements like that was not that was a surprise to any of our agreements that we would never have agreed to spend six months apart from each other and sometimes things happen that you can't you know get around and i think that that's when i said like when we come back we need to make a it was more me saying it where i was like we need to really make an effort to reconnect because you can't just assume that things are the same and that takes work so yeah man i love having these conversations i know where i know oh, this was about love and money.

1:12:57And we're going to be doing another episode on the different rules that women should be living by. Based on an old book. Based on an old book. Not mine. And we're going to check and see if we think these rules live up to what women should be doing in modern dating and modern relationships. So I'm excited about that. But I love it. I get nervous having these conversations. So do I, man. So do I. What are people going to think? That's what I'm thinking. Now everyone's going to be like, Jay would never, he would make me sound a prenatal. I know, right? I'm like one of the most romantic love-in-love people that exists.

1:13:33I've just become more realistic as I've coached people, as I've worked with people, as I've seen challenges. You start to see things. That's the interesting thing, too. I've heard, I mean, yeah, you start to see things. And when you see a lot of people go through pain, and like years of pain. That's what it is. When there's a divorce and there's years of pain and there's kids involved and there's money involved. And then there's just sadness and hatred. And it's like, you almost see people beaten down. Yeah. And you're like, how can we have awkward conversations beforehand to set ourselves up for more harmony and peace?

1:14:09Totally. Even if it doesn't work out, how can we make a conscious uncoupling the best possible way to do that? Totally. And I think you've got to have - Maybe that's another Awkward Therapy episode. We're doing conscious uncoupling. Conscious uncoupling. Yeah, we'll take a look at that. Yeah, take a look at the book. I think there's - It's the book, yeah. There's a book. I think there's conscious coupling, which people don't really talk about, and conscious uncoupling. I think we should do both. Talking about how to enter a relationship consciously and how to plan to exit a relationship consciously, which is the most unromantic thing.

1:14:36When you're 21, 24, and you're broke, and you're just like, I want to be with you forever, and I love you. It's not the sexy, romantic thing to talk about, but I think there's got to be a way to do it, which is romantic. Totally. And which is feeling elevated. And so that'll be a future conversation. I'm excited, man. I'm in. Let's do it. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast.

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1:15:50And now it's time to go out there and do something great.