Mark Manson: The Psychological Skills To Master For Fulfilling Relationships, Inner Peace & Abundance

27:35And I'm sure you're doing it with others too. I'm terrible at it. And it's something that I've had to be very conscious about. And it's silly because it's the superficial stuff. When I'm in person, and you can attest to this, when we're in front of each other, it's great. I can talk all day. We can hang out. Everything's good. But it's for some reason that connection, that texting, the calling, the responding, the emails, the scheduling stuff. I'm always really bad about that. And it seems silly because it's the superficial side of it. But I don't know. Like, part of it is just, you know, being busy, quote unquote, like we all are.

28:13But part of it, too, like sometimes I wonder if it isn't a little bit of residue from like that social anxiety I was talking about. Sure. You know, of like, weekend's coming up. I want to do something with somebody, but I don't know who. What if they're busy? What if they reject me? I don't know what to invite them to. What if it's something lame? What if they don't want to come? They can say no. There's probably some really subtle residual stuff like that down there. Or maybe I just never developed the skill. Yeah, yeah. I think it's a skill. Yeah. I think it's a skill because that's something.

28:49It's interesting. I almost have the opposite feedback for myself, which in the last, and maybe we talked about this last time I hung out, but I was connected with everyone too frequently. I had built my kind of business in building relationships. Yeah. And I felt like I was spreading myself too thin. Yeah. And I felt the opposite of like, I'm just pouring in everyone else and I don't feel like people are as invested in me. Yeah. And I was starting to feel like resentful or frustrated or like I'm drained, you know. Yeah. So it's like, let me reclaim my energy. And I had to in the last year and a half say no to people, create boundaries with people.

29:27It was more the fear of hurting their feelings if I need to create a boundary or just say no to them. They wanted to spend time together. They wanted something. They wanted to come on a show, whatever it is. And I just had to say, no, I can't do this. And be okay with disappointing them, letting them down, thinking they're judging me, which was my greatest challenge. Yeah. That's another skill. That is a skill. I didn't have that skill. You probably had that skill. I have no problem saying no to people. You're like, screw you. I don't care. And that was a skill that I've had. I'm like still learning.

29:58I haven't mastered it. It's still like a, it's a muscle I'm building where I'm just like, okay, I have to learn how to be okay with not upsetting someone. Do you feel like an internal resistance when that situation comes up? Or I'm like, I need to take a deep breath or what if they react or that's how it was. I'm a lot better now. I feel like I've done it a ton this year. I've like immersed myself in like boundaries and no's everywhere in my life. friends family like not a negative way but just right you show up for me yeah and not in an aggressive way like screw you but just like doing the action of no or setting a boundary yeah removing myself from certain you know text groups or things like this that are just i feel out of alignment with certain things i need to say no so you say no so a lot of people struggle with this gosh well people please yeah yeah well so what is what is like the first step um would you i think I think the first step is what you said, which is self-awareness.

30:54Yeah. For me, because I was feeling it for years, but I was afraid of upsetting people. Yeah. Afraid of hurting the relationships. And then I would resent the relationship when they would reach out and ask for something from me, but they wouldn't just check in on me. Yeah. And I'd be like, and I would do it anyways. and then I resent myself for doing something for someone else when I was frustrated that it didn't just say hey what's going on how you doing or just texting like hey hope you're doing well yeah but it was only when they reach out when they wanted something and I would reach out just be like hey I saw you're doing something cool congratulations and not you know yeah so that would bug me because maybe I would just assume everyone does what I do which is like thinking of them we all do wishing the best of them like yeah checking in when they do something cool online and like hey congrats what can i help with yeah anyways that that's another that's actually a great self-awareness point is that we all default to assuming that people do what we do or think the way that we think right that that it's and it's it's crazy because people are completely different and it's interesting too because the say no thing it's funny because i probably have a very similar reaction that you have the other way hearing my problem because when i'm hearing you talk i'm like it's so easy yeah i'm like i'm like well yeah you just say no to everybody and then the people who are really your friends will stick around and i'm like and i'm like it's solved right the problem's up but it's you probably hear my problem you're like yeah just text everybody and like the people who want to see you will text back and i'm like so interesting but it's so hard we have like the opposite wound or something.

32:35I don't know. That's so interesting. Yeah. With our powers combined, we would be the perfect friend. That's so interesting. Well, I think a lot of people struggle with these social skills. And I think it is either emotional or psychological wounds that we're just a lack of self-awareness on how to develop this skill. And that's why I think this is what sets people free. I have so much more peace in the last year and a half. Now, the first six months of this, I didn't feel peace. I felt like, ah, this is hard. But now on the other side of developing this skill, let's say I'm level three or four out of 10 maybe of this skill, I feel so much more peace and freedom being able to create a boundary, say no, or just not go to someone's party or event and be okay with them being upset with me.

33:26Yeah. Did you have any fallout? Did you have any people get - Yeah, yes. I had to say no to people and I had to literally, there's a few people that I had to create a boundary with over text. Then I've been on a phone call and just being like, here's why you're not a good friend. Wow. And that was like trembling inside. Holy. It was like, I had to have the ultimate courage to be like, you haven't made a good friend. Yeah. This is why this doesn't feel good to me. I don't appreciate the way you're treating me like and that was the hardest thing wow because i didn't want to upset anyone ever yeah and i did that over and over again yeah in the last year and a half but then you get to the other side and i just feel like yeah peace and i've also realized like the skill of not meeting lots of friends yeah like you know all this you're like yeah i have like what are four friends and i don't need everyone to like me yeah i'm always trying to get people to hate me you know whatever it's like That's how you built your business, right?

34:26It's like pissing off 90 % of people and being friends with the other 10. It's funny because you said you grew up kind of feeling bullied and not having a lot of friends. I felt the same way and I went into, well, let me be friends with everyone. Right. Let me try to get that approval in my 20s and have everyone like me and be the nice guy and over deliver of value so that people see my worth. Well, this is the weird thing about childhood wounds, right? Because there's kind of, you can go one of two directions. You can either try to compensate for it for the rest of your life or you can just own it and live in it for the rest of your life.

35:00Like identify with it. And I actually think I tend to be, I've mellowed quite a bit as I've gotten older, but like I tend to be unnecessarily contrarian with people. Yes. Like my first instinct, like anytime, if I'm with a group of people and everybody agrees on something, my first instinct is like they're all wrong. Oh my God. And let me figure out how they're wrong. We call it the angle where they're missing something. Exactly. But it's funny because it's been my superpower, right? It is that skill and that willingness has resulted in a lot of my personal success. But... Gosh, that's interesting.

35:38There's been a lot of social situations, relationships, family situations where people are like, Mark, stop being an asshole, dude. Right. You know, like back off, relax. That's interesting. Yeah. Now, I've noticed though, the more boundaries I've created, the more I've developed the skill of boundaries or just saying no and being okay with if there's a consequence. And usually there's not a consequence of saying no, it's just my interpretation of like, oh, am I going to upset them? By doing this, I've gotten to the place where you are, which is, okay, you have a handful of key friends and then the rest of the time I'm with my fiance and I'm happy.

36:16I don't need people to like me. I don't need all these friends to be happy. You know, if I have more friends at a season of life, cool. If it's less or whatever, it's like, I'm okay. Do you think the quantity of social relationships was compensating for the lack of depth, maybe? I was also always trying to go deep with people, though, too. I always wanted to go intimate and deep right away, which people are always like, oh, you're asking these deep questions. We just met each other, right? That's kind of what I do on the show. It's like, it's your darkest secret. You know, it's like, and, but I just think I, I, I, I just care deeply about humans also.

36:58Yeah. So there's like a desire to care about humanity and help everyone. Yeah. But also maybe there was a wound of like, no one liked me as a kid. So. Sure. So it was kind of a combination of both maybe. I used to do that as well. And I've actually, I, I've noticed that that is, it's a mistake that I've noticed a lot of young people make or younger people make. And I think it's very well-intentioned. Yes. Because I hate small talk. I've hated small talk my entire life. And so when I was younger, I kind of had this naive view of like, I should never have to do small talk. I should just go deep with everybody I meet from day one, first step.

37:37What's your life's biggest dream? If you only had a year to live, what would you do with it? All these questions that I used to ask in my 20s. And I think as I've gotten older, I've appreciated that depth, like you can't force depth and intimacy. And vulnerability right away. Yeah. Absolutely. You can't force it. And then also a huge component of intimacy is simply time. Right? It's like it's simply spending time together. You actually, in many cases, you can develop more trust and comfort and intimacy hanging out with a friend, watching football games every week for a few years than you can having these super deep, profound conversations and trying to force in all these personal topics.

38:20Some of it is just being present with someone. Yes. I'm the opposite of you, whereas you're like, how can I push everyone's buttons and almost push everyone away, but build this massive audience because I'm bringing in people who believe in the same type of thought. Yeah. Where I built my, and you kind of built your business that way, your blog and your books that way. Yeah. I built my business through relationships. Yeah. I started hosting networking events in 2008, 9, 10. And I was like, oh, I'm building an audience and making money through relationships, networking, creating experiences, creating groups.

38:55Like that was kind of how I built it. So I felt like I had to keep doing that. Yeah. And I think I can only do that so much. Yeah. Of personal time invested in all these different people. It just became too much. Yeah, and I think there's probably like a prioritization. I don't want to call it a ranking or like a tier system, but, you know, there probably needs to be clarity in your own life of like, okay. Friend circles, right? This is my friend circle. These are people I really care about. And then these are like acquaintances, people I like, but like, you know, I see them for work-related stuff or I talk to them for work-related stuff.

39:29But like we're not besties. And then there's like colleagues and then there's like, okay, people you just do partnerships with or something. Yeah, totally, totally. Not everyone needs to be your friend. Yeah. Yeah. But I used to want to make everyone my friend. You know what I mean? But I didn't understand not everyone needs to be your friend. Yeah, yeah. You can be friendly with everyone. Yeah. But. There's a difference. I mean, it's almost, you actually don't want everybody to be your friend because then you don't really stand for anything, right? Ooh, that's interesting. Like you. Gosh. it's unrealistic to expect that you're going to connect or see eye to eye with every single person that you ever meet you actually the fact that you don't connect or meet see eye to eye with some people you meet is significant because it means that you have some degree of identity and uniqueness and values and prioritizations that differ from others and like that's fine That's totally fine.

40:30Yeah. That's cool. Okay. So we got self-awareness. We got feedback. What would be another skill that you think, from all the research you've been doing lately, that if people can learn to develop or master this psychological or emotional skill, it would improve the quality of their life?

40:50Feedback. I'd say communication. Communicating effectively with people. I think. what's the key to having powerful communication i think the most important thing in communicating within relationships is distinguishing between and this ties into the feedback thing and the criticism and the judgment and everything is like distinguishing your comments about a person's thoughts or actions versus the person themselves I think many people's, it's instinctual for us. Like, let's say you say something that I completely disagree with, right? It is a human instinct for me to be like, Lewis, you're wrong.

41:33You're an idiot. You're all this and that. And we have to teach ourselves to separate the idea from the person, right? The behavior that you're doing. Or the behavior from the person. and instead say, hey, Lewis, I disagree with that idea and I don't really like it and this is why. And maintaining respect for the person while disagreeing about the idea. So when someone has like a belief or a statement, instead of saying you're a horrible person for thinking that. Yes, exactly. Don't say like how despicable are you for having this opinion. Exactly. Instead say something like, that opinion doesn't resonate with me.

42:12Yeah. Or why do you think that? I disagree, but why do you think that? Right? Like lead into it with curiosity and understanding that it's okay to disagree about things, even like relatively important or even ethical things, without necessarily hating or disrespecting the person. And I think this is particularly important in romantic relationships, right? Like my wife and I, we have extremely different standards when it comes to cleanliness. Are you the clean one or is she the clean one? Oh, she is definitely the clean one. It probably drives her nuts if you don't live up to some standard, right?

42:51Absolutely, right? And it's, you know, and then she's Brazilian. And so we have different standards when it comes to punctuality. She's three hours late. Exactly. It's like she starts getting ready when it's time to be there. And it's funny because a lot of us, we tie up things like cleanliness, organization, punctuality. Like a lot of us, we often attach these things to moral judgments. Like we, it is very natural and normal to assume if somebody's 45 minutes late. Like if I showed up 45 minutes late for this podcast, it's a total natural reaction to be like, wow, Mark's kind of an asshole. that's really disrespectful like i don't like him right right or uh if you know somebody just like leaves all their dirty dishes out everywhere it's like wow what a mess of a person like what kind of person does this you know and it we jump immediately to the judgment of the character of the person without understanding that you can have different viewpoints prioritizations or or just perceptions of what is clean, what's not clean, what is on time, what's not on time.

44:00And again, it's love the sinner, hate the sin. Separate the action from the person and try to refrain as much as possible, not letting the distaste of the behavior zip into your respect and your trust and your judgment as to be individual. Have you ever done any therapy for yourself? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. What's the biggest lesson you've learned from therapy? You know, it was funny. So I did therapy for most of my 20s. And it was really funny. I went in. So earlier I was talking about how I blew up a bunch of relationships for no good reason. And it was as soon as I had awareness around that, like I think it was after the third or fourth relationship that I ruined.

44:51I started, I'm like, huh, I think I'm the problem. and as soon as I realized that, I signed up for therapy. Wow. And I was probably 23 or something. That's like young. Yeah. Like therapy wasn't cool 17 years ago. No, no, no. For men, especially for men, yeah. That's a very self-aware thing of you at 23 to sign up for therapy. Yeah, yeah. I was really in the meditation at the time, so I was doing a lot of meditation retreats and I was really in the Buddhism and stuff. And so I think therapy just kind of seemed like a natural extension of that. But so I remember I went to therapy and I intentionally chose a male therapist and because I want to talk about girls.

45:31Right. Like that was in my head. That was my issue. It's like, oh, all these girls, they're crazy. You know, I can't keep a girlfriend around. You know, there's all this drama going on. And I remember I sat down with with him and we started talking and I was like, I have all these girl problems. I really want to like sort through them with somebody. And we spent the next two months talking about my parents. like we never like the girlfriends never even came up it was just all childhood parents the entire time and there was just so much stuff back there like down there like stuff I never thought about there were so many times where like I would describe something to him and he would just look at me and he'd be like yeah that sounds like trauma you know and I'm like really and he's like yeah that's not normal you know and it like I had no idea no idea because we all grow up assuming that our childhood is normal.

46:24We assume that it's everybody's childhood, that everybody's family operates the way our family operated. Everybody's mother is the way our mother was, right? Like, we never consider that it could be different or that the way we grew up was unusual in some way. And so coming back to the self-awareness piece, like, that's incredibly powerful when you realize, like, hey, the water I've been swimming in since I was a child is not normal water. Like, this is... this is rocky waters yeah this is this is all splashing around and messed up like i'm not seeing clearly so that that was very uh very powerful for me and um the second thing i remember this was before i started my career or anything i remember uh kind of once i got towards the end of the therapy and he and i started talking about ending it he actually told me he was like you know you'd be pretty good at this.

47:16I was like, really? He's like, yeah. If you're still thinking about careers, you should consider psychology. I was like, yeah, we'll see. Let's do it. Look at you now. I know, right? Speaking of psychology and the self-help world, what is the advice in the self-help world right now that you think people should ignore? Ignore. Like what's out there in the world that you're seeing people speaking about or content or people saying, ah, you should do this, but you actually shouldn't do that? You know, it's not so much that something should be ignored, but I do think there are a number of things that tend to get overrated or maybe overrated at the moment.

47:59I think there are certain things that get a lot of traction on social media, and so they just get spread everywhere, and then people start kind of exaggerating what they are. I'll give you one example is narcissism. I knew you were going to say that. Yeah. I knew you were going to say this because I just feel like I literally knew you were going to say this. I was going to say it before you, but I want to visit because I feel like that's all people talk about. It's everywhere. It's absolutely everywhere. I see it on a million accounts. I see like whenever I post anything about it, it gets shared a million times.

48:31And I've been running into it, you know, in conversations with people and fans, like people start like, well, you know, I've had all these narcissists in my life and I had to cut them out. And I'm like, whoa, okay, hold on. Time out. and like narcissism is a thing obviously it's a very bad thing it's a very difficult thing to deal with but it's not necessarily around every corner and the problem with narcissism is that it's it's you need to have extended exposure to a person to like properly diagnose it you can't just be with somebody for a month or a few months or have them do one thing mean to you or be selfish in one way and be like, oh, well, they're a narcissist and I shouldn't have to ever deal with them again.

49:15And I think it's, people are using it as an excuse to exit difficult situations and difficult relationships that in reality could probably be improved with a certain amount of patience and work. So I worry about that. I worry, there's a lot of statistics around parents or kids cutting off their parents. And I think a lot of it is, you know, the narcissistic parents is kind of becoming the just or toxic parents is the justification for it. And it really makes me uncomfortable because you can have really terrible parents, but you can manage that relationship and manage your exposure to them in a way that you don't have to eliminate them from your life permanently.

50:01Yeah, you can create a boundary. Exactly. And I feel like people are just using narcissism as an excuse to not do the hard work of boundaries. Yeah. Man, that's interesting. Okay, so that's something you feel like is getting either overblown up or overrated in terms of where it's at. Is there any other self-help or personal development advice you're seeing in the world that you feel like, I don't know if that's actually the best approach? maybe not a person who's saying something but a uh a concept yeah concept well i i've got a whole rant about manifestation uh-huh which my audience loves manifestation i know they do it's gonna trigger everyone i know they do trigger warning marks coming in on the manifestation let's hear it it's not that it's wrong like it's it is a thing right it's just i don't like the explanation for it which is you know it what's the explanation you hear that you don't like the explanation i hear is very woo and like in it and and also there's a little bit speaking of narcissism there's a little bit of kind of spiritual narcissism in it of like of like oh if you really wish for something you really focus on it the universe is going to conspire to give it to you because you know there's energy in the world and it's all going to like co and like i'm like Come on.

51:20Really? Look, as somebody, there are very well understood, well documented cognitive biases in psychology. Our minds are not 100 % accurate. We perceive things inaccurately. One way to think about it is that there's a lot of information in the world, and our minds are not fully capable of processing all the information at all given times. And so So our mind uses shortcuts to narrow in and focus on what matters. Your mind can't process everything that it's perceiving, right? So your mind takes shortcuts. And one of those shortcuts is something known as confirmation bias. And it's confirmation bias is super simple, which is basically whatever you are thinking about, your perception will look for in your environment, right?

52:11So everybody's - Kind of like a placebo or no? I mean, everybody's experienced this many times. So for example, let's say you're thinking about buying a new car. You probably go years without paying much attention to what other cars are on the highway. But as soon as you think to yourself, I'm going to buy a new car. I think I'm going to switch models. Suddenly, every day you're driving to work and you notice every single car around you. You're like, huh, I wonder what that one is. I wonder if that's expensive. That one looks nice. Maybe I'll get that. And suddenly, because you've prioritized cars in your mind, you start noticing them in your environment in a way that you never noticed before.

52:49And this has a very noticeable effect. So if I tell you that the color orange is going to be very important in your life over the next week, you probably see the color orange a million times a day, but you never care and you never think about it. But if I tell you that and you believe it, you'll start noticing orange and all these little things that you do all the time. So you can leverage cognitive bias in your favor, which is by focusing and thinking about your goals, right? It's like if I want to achieve something really important, if I focus and think about that day after day after day, I will start noticing opportunities or things that could help me achieve that in my environment, going about my day-to-day life.

53:35Now, those opportunities and things were always there. I just wasn't paying attention to them. Because I've been thinking about it regularly, now I notice them, right? So it's manifestation. There's nothing manifesting. It was already there. It was there the whole time. You just didn't prioritize it, so you never noticed. And so this is what I mean when it's like, it's not wrong. It's just described poorly, right? And I'm like, and I'm a science nerd. So I'm like, well, why can't we just call it cognitive, leveraging cognitive bias? Well, that's not very catchy and it doesn't sell a lot of books.

54:12That's interesting. No, I like this approach though, because there are certain people that will just say, oh, if you just think about it, it comes to you or whatever. It'll just, the universe is conspiring in your favor. And, you know, when you set an intention, it all floods your way, which whether you believe that or not, what you said is actually what a lot of people talk about with manifestation. These things are already out there. And when you put your intention on a goal, a vision, a dream, whatever you want to create, then you can go find that thing through daily actions. Yes. And the more clear your intention and the more active you're thinking about that thing and acting on it, the closer you're going to find it, the quicker you're going to find it.

54:55Absolutely. You call that cognitive bias, not manifestation. You can call it whatever you want. It's just, it's the explanation that drives me crazy. I hear you. You know, it's like, it's when I hear the flighty woo woo, oh, the universe is, your energy is aligned with this and that, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, whatever, man. Yeah, it works. Okay, great. You know? You call it confirmation bias. It's confirmation, it is like in psychology, we've known it for 50 years. That's great. It's a confirmation bias. It's a thing. You can totally leverage it in your favor. I love it. Whatever it is you believe, if you're taking the actions around, whether you call it confirmation bias or anything else.

55:28It's the intention and the action. That's it. That's it. There you go. Okay, perfect. So we agree on that. I agree on that, yeah. So it's the way certain people explain it when they don't add those things. That's what frustrates you. And the explanation does matter because bad explanations, people can start making poor assumptions based on bad explanations. 100%. So it's like if you, let's say you set an intention for a certain goal and it doesn't work out. You know, like it ends up being harder than you expected. or maybe you achieve it and it doesn't make you happy. Well, now you've got this cosmological conundrum of like, well, maybe the universe doesn't want me to be happy.

56:06Well, no, no, it's just you thought you wanted a thing and you got it and now you actually realize it doesn't make you happy. Very human experience, completely normal. So I just have a natural allergy to like the cosmological woo-woo explanations Because I just, I think it can get people into trouble. Sure, sure, sure. It makes sense. What is the, you know, being 40 now, what is the skill you think you're going to need to learn to master for the next four years of your life? Oh, man. Because you've created so much. You've accomplished so much. You've got, you know, probably every type of goal you want to accomplish, you've done it a million times over with the amount of books you've sold and all the other things you've created and the lives you've impacted.

56:55and being married for eight plus years now and all these different things. But for the next 40, what's the skill you need to master to feel happy or abundant or joyful or, you know? I feel happy and abundant and joyful. I don't know. It's, I don't know. Maybe you're in the same spot, but like it's actually, I was talking to a friend about this just a couple of days ago, how early in my career, you know, I was messed up. I was still working through a lot of shit, right? And so there was a certain like energy and fire to my work because it was also my therapy. Like, you know, it's like I, like my relationships are falling apart and I've got all this self doubt and insecurity in these areas of my life.

57:42And it just, it like fueled a very passionate output. And I really do feel like I've reached a point in my life where most areas of my life I'm pretty satisfied with. Like there's obviously always things I could do better. And there are some areas that I think I could get better at. But ultimately, all in all, I'm like, I'm in a really good place. And I feel like I've figured out a lot of my crap. And it's interesting being in this industry now because it's like some of that fire is gone or that edge has been taken off. Because you're peaceful and you're happy. I'm peaceful. Like I'm good, man.

58:18I don't need to get angry about stuff. Interesting. And so. So maybe it's letting go of something or yeah. I don't know. Yeah. And also it's just enjoying it all now. It's like, I, that's what I would say is, is not having to fricking prove yourself or do the next big thing. That would be the skill. That's interesting. Is, is not like being, just being, being, you know, like not feeling like I need to go conquer more stuff. And, uh, and I feel like I really, especially in the last year or two, like I, I really feel like I'm kind of arriving at that place where it's like, I've got a bunch of business goals but it's just fun like i'm just doing it because it's awesome and fun and i have goals in my personal life and my health and my relationships but it's it's really just because it's just good it's just fun it's like good for me it's good for the people around me there's nothing i'm not trying to prove anything i'm not trying to like win anything or um and it's just it's a great place to be and I just really hope I can stay here.

59:20I don't get like sucked, you know. Captivated by some. Chasing some rat race somewhere, you know. Yeah. So. I think that's really interesting you say that because there's a lot of people, most people don't have that skill. Yeah. And I think that is, and there's a season for that skill because I think when you're 22 and you're broke and you're trying to like. You shouldn't have it. develop you know talents and skills where you can add value to people in society you've got a well if hustle's the right word but you've got to work hard you got to overcome challenges you've got to deliver value you got to figure out what your path is um but there's a i come back to this quote that jim carrey said a few years ago um when he was like retiring although i just saw that he's got his i think his final movie is coming out right now but the interview someone interviewed to me he's like yeah i think i'm done with with like acting yeah and the interviewer was really sad and he said why you can't you're like so great and amazing and he goes i'm going to tell you something that i don't think any celebrity would ever tell you and that is that i have enough i am enough or i have enough i've done enough and i am enough yeah and he's like i don't think any celebrity will ever tell you that yeah but at jim carrey's age and success like he's got like three four decades of freaking wins, right?

1:00:43And like unlimited wealth and fame. So maybe at that level, he felt like, yes, but he didn't feel that 20 years prior, you know, but it's, it's, he felt, he looked peaceful knowing that he doesn't have to go do more to fulfill something for himself, to feel enough. And I think that's a very powerful skill. And even if you're in your twenties or thirties and you're like, well, I still want to do more. It's how can you do it from a place of I am enough no matter what the outcome is. Right. That's the key. That is power. That's the key. And it's... It's hard though because like, oh, what if you would have never sold this many copies or never been on New York Times Best Seller or never...

1:01:22Yeah. Would you still be like, oh, I got to prove something. I got to become better to like do this thing. I don't know. I... Maybe I'm naive, but I feel like a lot of older folks reach this place kind of naturally, you know? And it's, I don't know, what you just described, that feeling of enough, that like to me that feels like the best definition of success. Wow. That you could possibly have is having enough. Man. So I don't know if I'm quite there, but this is definitely the closest I've ever been in my life. And I'm definitely in a place too where I'm not wanting for anything. I'm not, you know, I've got a great relationship.

1:02:09I've got friends. I've got hobbies. My health's good. My business is great, you know. So as long as nothing deteriorates, I've won already. You've won big, man. And I think having peace with where you're at, because a lot of people, I think suffering is not being happy with what you have. Yes. And it's like there are people that we know who have a lot that aren't happy, or they still feel like they need more in order to fulfill something. And that doesn't seem like peace to me. And I don't know, even if I feel like, oh gosh, I've got all the money in the world or whatever it might be, I feel like I'm still going to want to pursue things, but not out of like proving people wrong or proving that I can do something, but just because it's going to serve people and it's going to serve me and I'm going to enjoy it.

1:02:58And I think that's where hopefully people can get there. I think the service thing is the key. It kind of flips it around, right? I think when you're young, you want to prove something, prove you're enough, have enough. And then once you feel like you have enough, you kind of just want to give it back. You kind of want to help other people up. 100%, man. Well, you're doing that in a big way with your YouTube series that you have. And you do a lot of kind of docu-style videos on psychological skills and mindsets and things like that where people can learn. I want people to follow you on YouTube.

1:03:32What's the best place we can go follow you there or your site? Check out Mark Manson on YouTube. I'm on all the social accounts. I'm on everything. Check out my podcast. I'm everywhere. You can't escape me, man. That's it, man. Every bookstore, every website, everywhere. It's great, man. Yeah, if you haven't checked out Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*** yet, check it out. If you're trying to learn how to stop people pleasing and to create boundaries, that's a great book. It's a good book for it, yeah. And so check that out, markmanson.net. You're doing a lot of long-form content in your podcast as well right now.

1:04:08You're diving deeper into subjects. People can check that out. Is it I am Mark Manson on YouTube or is it Mark Manson? Just Mark Manson. Mark Manson on YouTube. And everyone's social media. Where's your main platform? Is it Instagram or X or where do you like to share the most bite-sized content? Instagram. Instagram. Check me out on Instagram. Mark Manson over there. Yeah. Mark, appreciate you as always, man. Thanks for giving us these kind of skills. Yeah. I think will help us improve the quality of our life. Damn it, brother. Always my pleasure. I'm excited, man. Thank you. Cool. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

1:04:45Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

1:05:24And now it's time to go out there and do something great.