Negotiate With Anyone & Master The Secret of Persuasive Communication w/ Trial Lawyer Jefferson Fisher EP 1473

31:44And, um, you know, the last year and a half, it's gone from a couple of videos here and there to over 5 million followers. Right. And people really coming to you for wisdom and advice and, you know, now your business growing, your law firm growing and opportunities coming to you. Right. What has that experience done for you and your confidence and also your personal life? And do you feel more stressed or overwhelmed or a sense of pressure now that you have this larger following and people looking to you for advice? Yes, it has helped my law firm in a big way because I don't tell people what I do, but they're interested in it.

32:23And so they go and find me. Now, sometimes I'll just get calls for people who just want to talk. Sure. Or people who will act like they're a client just so they can talk. But by and large, it's been very helpful for my business. And it's always helpful for my trials. I have several trial settings this fall. There's not a judge who hasn't seen the videos there's not a closing council that hasn't seen the videos and so that's it's good and bad because it makes me very hyper aware of my interactions with them because as soon as i say one thing that's off then oh jefferson's not who he is which is just not true but i would say absolutely it's built a lot more pressure really yeah yeah that's the i think it was one of the sources of the when i had a my first panic attack at the beginning of this year because even though you have more followers it's also very isolating in a way because I know law very well and when I had that I had a lot of people at my table so to speak I had mentors I had friends I had other people who I mean other lawyers I had my family I had studied it I knew I'd read all the things and it started out awesome the social media thing was I just just going in my car for a little bit and making a video of what was off the top of my head.

33:45And now it's gotten much more serious. And with that, there's a pressure of not wanting to give bad advice. I'm certainly never going to act like I know everything. I can, of course, I can give bad advice. I mean, it's inevitable. So you have that kind of feeling and it's a lot of eyes on you. So with anybody, it's kind of that imposter syndrome. Like, do I really know what I'm saying? And, you know, it isn't, do I really, do I really know it or I'm just fooling everybody? Wow. And so you kind of have to battle that at your head and go, no, no, I've done this. I've done this. Like, I say done, like I've lived this, I've lived that.

34:22Although this has been my life. Yes. And as long as I share my life and I'm authentic to who I am, I'm never going to be an imposter. Right. Because you started opening up recently and did some different videos about the, you know, kind of mental health panic attacks. Yeah. That you've experienced. when did you have the first panic attack? How did that make you feel? And how have you been able to manage that feeling of overwhelm or, you know, panic? It was in February where all of a sudden I had a whole bunch of videos that were taken off. Videos that I had posted like two weeks prior. Going viral.

34:57You got it. Yeah. I had like four of them all in a row. And it was me going, I don't know what's happening. Somebody at Instagram messed up. Like, you know, like the, this can't be. And as it continued to grow, then I started seeing more people with, I didn't have a blue check. All these more people with a blue check following me. And that was before you could buy it. And then I'm seeing other celebrities and I'm going, hold up here. What's happening? and then I knew I needed to get like build a website because I didn't have a website so I'm staying up super late like working on some put something together yeah just anything any anything there's no team it's just it's just this guy and it was a little after midnight wife kids were asleep and Lewis it felt like somebody had gotten that little piece of paper and just wafted it in front of my face like a very cool just rush and I said out loud in the kitchen I said what was that because i was like this is a ghost just you know jump over me and just like that it was i just all of a sudden i could hear it in my ears tightness in my chest and my whole system just started to like freak i was really convinced i was convinced that was a heart attack and i was dying holy cow because i knew it could not have been anxiety really why because you know what i mean Like, it was like, I, I, I stressed for breakfast.

36:33I'm chill. I'm cool. You know what I mean? Trials I've had, you know, stressful situations and money on the line and all this stuff. I, I, I eat stress. We can do this. I, I was, it was such an ignorant mindset. But at the moment I was like. You thought you were having a heart attack. I thought I was having a heart attack because there could be no other explanation in my mind because I don't have anxiety. I don't have panic attack. That's for people who don't have their life together. That was the very wrong mindset that I had. And what happened during that night, and how did you get through it?

37:07Oh, well, I went to the ER because I thought I was dying. Wow. Did you drive yourself? Did your wife drive you? Did you call 911? I called 911, yeah. Ambulance came to pick you up, the whole thing. The lights, sirens. The whole thing, dude. They bring out the... Oh, yeah. I was shaking so badly, like uncontrollable shaking. I don't know what was going on. all i knew was like all i could tell my wife is something is not right like that's all i could get out of my mouth something is not right it's true something was not right my body's like no your body was convulsing yeah my body was like yeah you're not right right now it's like shutting down yeah system powered down yeah all of that holy cow yeah at 34 is the first time i've ever had that kind of experience it was very real i mean as physical intangible as as heart pounding Oh yeah.

37:54Yeah. Yeah. And so sweating, dizziness, all of it. I couldn't tell if I was going to throw it. I like, I was, I was like, Lord, anytime, please. Because I hated the whole thing. It just felt like it was days while you're just shaking. So I get down to the hospital. They were my blood work. By that time I'm having like what you would call, I guess, aftershocks. Like I'd, I'd be good. And then I'd have another, just like onset and then it'd go flat. And then I just like, everything, in my body while I clench up. And that happened for, I don't know, two hours. And then they just said, well, you just, no heart attack, your heart's good.

38:32Yeah, your blood works fine. Everything was fine. Healthy, healthy as can be. But you just, you had a panic attack. And I was like, excuse me, what? And like you had a panic attack. I was like. No, I'm sure my heart had an attack. Yeah, I was like, are you sure? You just, it's okay. I'll get a heart monitor. It's okay. But yeah, so that. Panic attack. And when they said that, how did they make you feel? It made me feel very normal and messed up. It made me feel like something was wrong with me. It made me feel like, oh no, now I'm one of them. Now I'm somebody who can't control my thoughts. Now I'm somebody who now I am going.

39:11Then the panic of the thoughts. So some of those thoughts in my mind. The panic of the panic attack. You got it, yeah. Because in that moment, yeah, I can tell myself, of course, no you you're perfectly normal yes you're supposed to have your body is this is all natural i could say that now in that moment it was well what's what's what's happening and as my brain is falling apart because you would have these rapid thoughts that would come these crazy thoughts that i could not stop like i'm like what thoughts oh you uh for whatever reason they would revolve around like for whatever reason death was a trigger like any thought of dying or the topic of it would just like send my whole body into a fritz and that's so bizarre coming from never in my life has this happened ever and here i am the guy who is at the time is going it was the night that my fallen hit a million is what happened wow the night you hit a million the night the night in a million and but But it was the thought of here's this guy who gives all this communication advice about blah, blah.

40:16And I'm just rippling and I'm just melting. I had another panic attack for the next eight days. Every day? Every day. Did you call the ER every time or no? No, no, no. You knew this was happening. Yeah. The second time was at the office and I was like, oh no. I said, I was like, oh no. But at that point I knew I wasn't dying and that's a very big relief. How long did the second one last? Just as long. The flowers. Yeah. So you're sitting in the office for a couple hours, like laying down on the couch. Breathing. I'm straight just like pulling out the Headspace app. I'm working on my breathing.

40:49I'm like, yeah. And so. And the next days after that, it was the same. They got a little bit shorter, but it would happen at terrible times. Wow, man. Yeah, it was terrible. It was a horrible time. And then I was like, man, I got to see what this is. I got to see what this is about. So I spent like a full day marked off my calendar of like, I am researching everything I want to know. about this topic because never in my life that I had been on my radar. What'd you find out about? What'd you, what'd you discover? So I discovered several things. One was part of that response that your body is going through, your body is telling you things that something is not right.

41:27You're, because I have a great mental game and I can tell myself just about anything. Like, no, I'm not nervous. I'm excited. I, I'm, I am very happy to be here or. I'm prepared. I'm there someday. Yeah. Yeah, I have to have this mindset of calm, cool, and collected when I walk in that door. When I walk through those courtroom doors, I need to look like I've already won. I just need to show them why. And here in this mindset was me saying, actually, your body knows better than you do. You can't outthink this. You got it. Yeah. Can't outthink this. You got to feel it and move through it. Yeah. There's that book, I can't remember the author, Body Keeps the Score.

42:10Incredible book. Yeah, so I ordered that book right away. What did you learn about yourself, your body, and your memories of the past that were causing this? There was a sense of, and this is going to sound weird, but it was a sense of immediate isolation. Okay, I have the million on my phone. Between me and you, it's just a digit from a number on my phone. That's it. No different than if I just press one on a keypad on my calculator on my phone. But that number meant much more significance. And of course, there are a lot of creators that have way more than that. But for somebody who's just been in his car, who doesn't see any of these people, I'm in a small town.

42:58I'm a growing law firm. I'm just doing all I can. And then all of a sudden I felt like a lot of eyes were on me and I had nobody to help. Like there was nobody, I couldn't, if I called my best friend, he'd be like, yeah, man. He doesn't understand. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, oh, that's, that's a, that's a bummer. You know, I, I just, they couldn't, they couldn't, I could tell, hey, we do, what are you thinking? I don't know. I'm glad I reached out to you then. Yeah. Yeah. Good timing. It really was. I'm telling you, I, that's why I, I thank you immensely because that, that was just to have that, that presence is, um, to know that I, if I need to, I can call or somebody who's kind of been through that, that change.

43:38And so now there's probably only four, maybe five people that I can share everything with that will actually not judge me, that will relate to it in some way that maybe has already had some type of experience like that, that will, you know, have compassion for me where if I said these things to other people or publicly or whatever it might be, people just won't understand or wouldn't get it. And I'm not saying that - Or take it wrong. Or they might take it wrong. And I'm not saying that I have like some unique experience that's greater or better than others. It's just a different unique experience from a different position of life.

44:18And it's not a better, worse than good, bad. It's just a different perspective. That's right. Yeah. And it's, um, yeah, there's, there's only a few people that I can really fully just let loose with. Yeah. But that's, that's, that's smart. I mean, that's biblical. The, the, keep your friends very close and few and your, your true ones that love you no matter what. Yeah. I mean, where I can say all this stuff, the messy, the nasty, the. The unfiltered. The unfiltered stuff. The hurt. The raw. Yeah. All of that. And it's, human beings need that at every stage of life. Yeah. You know, whether you're 14 and dealing with stuff in your mind or some weird stuff or you're 40.

44:59Yeah. You know, we all need those people that we can have those conversations with. Yeah. Yeah. Every, at every stage, at every level, if you don't have that outlet, your body's going to carry it for you. Absolutely. Until it can't anymore. It's going to release in some way. Until it can. And that's what happened with me was just that feeling of big time isolation. There were more brands and like people email you and call you and you need to go with this. Want something from you. Yes. And oh, we see this and you ought to do it. And so you're going, wait, man, look, I just, I got to get chicken nuggets in the oven right now.

45:37You know what I mean? Like, can you please? Yeah. My kid's crying over here. Let me just deal with this. Right, right. Like, yeah. Like I get home, it's, it's mayhem, it's bath time. It's, you know, you just, yeah, there's no, there's no team of anything beyond the guy in the car yet, but it was definitely that feeling of, I felt like my life was just like starting to just expand in a, in a very surreal way that my body felt despite what my brain was telling it. What did you realize about yourself from those eight days of panic attacks that you were holding on to, that you were resisting, or that you were not ready for yet?

46:18It was a sense of, don't let them down. What, the number? The number of people watching or following? Yeah, because they'll comment, they message, they say incredibly nice, arts out things. I still get to read them. And they're just the kindest, kindest things that you go. I do not deserve to read what I just said. You just feel like an immediate sense of humility. Like an imposter or something? Not so much an imposter of don't let these people down because they really do depend on that advice for whatever reason. That daily message you give them. They've chosen the guy in the driver's seat. They want to hear what his thoughts are on X, Y, and Z, which I love.

47:04I truly do love it. and I hope I do it for the rest of my life. But it is in that moment, in the very first beginning of me saying, okay, this is happening. Like this is, I guess this is happening. That was an immediate sense of settling into that expectation. I also learned that I was getting a bad habit of holding my breath when I was working or doing things. So you weren't breathing as your body was like. Yeah. And so I was - I know that feeling, man. Yeah. So I was reading in that part of that panic attack is the same sensation you get when your body's drowning. It's because I'm holding my breath, priving myself of oxygen and my body is like kicking in.

47:52It's like - Yeah, you got it. It needs more oxygen. You got it. And so without me just thinking in the day, I was catching myself more and more holding my breath. Or shallow breathing. Yes. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Barely breathing. Of course I'm alive, but it's like I'm holding it more than I'm letting it out. And I'm not fully utilizing my body, which tells me that there's that tension, that like tightness. Yeah. So once I realized that I was holding my breath, that's what taught me of like, okay, let's, let's fix that. Right. Because once I started fixing that, much, much, much better.

48:28Yeah. There's something I've learned over the years about, and I'm curious how you approach this. And I don't always get it right. And it doesn't always work for me, but a psychological strategy. When someone is, quote unquote, attacking me or saying nasty things about me that I don't believe are true, or maybe it's just, I don't like the way they're saying it and I don't want it to penetrate my heart and my soul and be reactive and defensive and frustrated and all these things. When the brow goes like that. Yeah, exactly. One of the psychological or therapeutic strategies that I've learned is to imagine either a field, an energetic field around me that I can see it, but then it bounces off.

49:20Okay. The words, the intention, the energy. It comes and then blink, it just goes around me and like water off and duck. I feel like there's a Star Wars reference, but yes, that's exactly right. Or what I'll do is I will separate the ego from the self and I'll have the ego over here next to me psychologically. Yeah. And an image of it, the ego of me here. Yeah. I'll just say, oh, they're just speaking to the ego. Yeah, the detachment. They're just, oh, they're speaking over here. Right. They're not actually speaking to me. Yeah. They might be looking at me, but it's just redirecting right here.

49:55Right. And, oh, this doesn't affect me. Yeah, they're talking to that guy. Yeah. And I saw, I think I saw, I think it was Salma Hayek one time talk about this. Um, as she was giving the example somewhere, a line about how, you know, if someone spoke to you really poorly in Spanish and you don't speak Spanish, you're not going to get defensive. Right. You're just going to be like, okay, I have no clue what this crazy person is saying to me. Um, okay. So just act like it's a different language. Right. It's just different ways of like separating yourself from the hurt or the potential pain. Yes. What have you learned to support yourself psychologically and emotionally and spiritually when this feeling of panic, stress comes your way or when potential attacks come your way emotionally?

50:47So very similar to yours. I, in my mind, I visually have a trash can. Oh, okay. All right. And I can see it. It's one of those big, huge gallon ones. It's just the black. Sure. Shiny. It's, yeah, you got it. Yeah. and I see what they're saying is just a shoot. So I can see the words coming and I'm sipped because the issue they're telling me is not the real issue. And so if I hear something that's offensive, that's not nice, I just, okay, that's trash. In my mind, I grab it with my right hand, lift up and throw it. That's what I'll do with my thoughts. and I'm sifting to where if they might have led with something that was snarky, which our inclination is to grab onto that and send it back to it.

51:40Yeah, send it back and go, oh, I just, I got a good one coming. Instead, yeah, you got it. Instead, if I throw that one away, it might just trash it. And then I found the one word that they said at the very end, towards the end, and that was the one word. And then if I focus on that word, then it all starts to kind of crumble. But that's, I just imagine a trash can. Wow. It's interesting. Now, how do you not, how do you communicate your worth when someone is being offensive or adding a little digs underneath their language? Maybe they're trying to get a message across and they're frustrated. So they're saying a few things that would be offensive to you potentially, or maybe hurt you, or maybe kind of put you beneath.

52:29How do you create a boundary consciously with them so that they don't keep doing that in the future where it's letting them know, hey, this type of communication doesn't really work for me. It's not okay. And owning your worth. Yeah. While also being able to throw it away at the same time and not let it get to you. Like, how do you navigate that so that that doesn't continue to happen in friendships or relationships or in career where that doesn't continue? Like, I understand we can do it once or twice or three times, but if someone's always doing that to us, how do we create that boundary and consciously communicate our worth?

53:09Depending on the context of who that person is, who they are in your life. Some people you just can't get away from, or family members, what have you. But it's a balance of your value and then what we're going to just call as what I'm interested in. So if somebody were going to say something that's offensive in a way, and they are pushing me, it's a much more powerful move, a very dominant, assertive move to say i'm not interested in returning what you just gave oh wow that's a it's a power move yeah oh yeah and see it's so if i say jefferson you know it was pretty idiotic what you did the other day to me and i just didn't you know yeah you just looked like an idiot but i what i really want to do is because i'm moving forward i want us to go and do this thing instead right whenever i'm just yeah yeah i'm with you yeah i'm with you how would you respond to something like like that so if somebody well what you kind of did was you you like hit it into something else that they did so what i i would first do is call that out i hear two points yeah and so i'm like i'm not going to skip that so i'll say so you want to you want to just throw the trash away right away you got it you address it well because Because they're trying to hide the trash and the good.

54:31And so my response is, well, I see two different things. So that first point, I don't have an interest in responding to whatever, or I'm going to say, well, maybe I did look like an idiot, but I'm not going to be, I'm not going to be holding on to whatever message you're trying to send to me. but it's a it's much more dominant move to say i have no interest in returning what you're sending right i have no interest in calling you what i saw yesterday you do or something like that you got it but if you use the phrase i have no interest i have no interest in in talking about your opinion of my performance oh interesting you know what i mean like it's obviously that's not something you want to start off with because that could sound that could sound defensive that can on the issues but the point of it is when you say i have no interest you're letting them look i don't have any it's like you're saying that as you're doing the trash can thing i really don't have an interest and you know this this kind of food it's not great for me doesn't really settle well with me but what does taste good of what you said you know about x y and z and so you kind of imagine those words as part of let's say it's kind of you know your diet sorry i'm a little light toasting talent, but let's skip the milk and talk about something else.

55:50What are the three power moves in conversations that really set you up for success in any conversation? Number one is silence. It's just nothing. So if somebody were to say something that's snarky, the best move is to say nothing. You just kind of sit back and you look around, if you look up, you look off. I'm telling you, nine times out of 10, they can't take it. Really? They can't take that silence because then it's spread out. You've just exposed. Instead of you covering it up with something else that says, excuse me, what did you say? You're just leaving it open. Can you like, that really was the best foot you're going to put out right now?

56:39Wow, I think that one. That's the one we're going to choose. and if you just let that silence sit there oftentimes and you've probably heard this they go i shouldn't have said that yeah you gotta give them that chance that's number one yeah number one is you got you gotta give them the chance of that silence number two acknowledge that it could be without acknowledging that it is and you say example of saying well maybe so maybe you're right and i say you're right no but maybe you are maybe maybe you're right But it's that piece of humility that says, yeah, well, maybe you're right. I had a guy once who said I was deposing him and all you lawyers, worst things that ever happened to America kind of talk.

57:26And I said, well, maybe you're right. But today's just going to be a conversation between us. Is it okay if you're just talking to Jefferson? And he said, yeah, I can do that. Wow. And so it's that ability to just say, well, maybe so. but I could have gotten really defensive with them. I could have chosen to take that personally instead of just dropped it. The other power move is to hold off on the timing. So when you are mad, that's generally not the best time to do it. Like when you know you've done something wrong and you want somebody to be mad at you, to like, fight me, please. Like, I know I've done something wrong.

58:08Let's have this out. we'll talk about this. You want to talk about this at noon? Right. Let's talk about it. Let's put it in the calendar for tomorrow. You got it. Oh, well, I'm, okay. And it's, I'm glad you said that. Well, then, you know, I don't really have my thoughts together on that, but why don't we kind of want to talk about that at noon tomorrow? What do you think? Now they're like, oh my God. Like I just said something that I shouldn't have said, but that's a much better way of handling of handling it because at that point you have not lost any confidence right you have not lost your credibility and you just you've maintained that you're the one in control at all times i'm telling you the key is just starting with your breath and choosing to be quiet right if you were to if you were to say something to me and i responded right away like if you were to say um i don't know do you do you um do you enjoy matcha tea i go no versus me thinking no like there's just a different connotation to it when you think about it yeah um about 14 years ago um someone gave me a a line that became one of the most powerful powerful uses of language over the last 14 years to help me get almost anything I want, or more of what I already have.

59:40And I use it all the time. When I go order a coffee, I use it. When I go to a hotel and try to get an upgrade, I use it. When I'm working with partners and collaborators. I use it. And the line is, what's the chance? What's the chance you can give me a discount on this? What's the chance you can give me an upgrade in this hotel room? What's the chance you can get me in first class? What's the chance we can collaborate in a bigger way? What's the chance you can go a little more on this? And I've used that over and over again because it continues to work. And I always use it as a game daily. Yeah.

1:00:25Like any store I go into, I'm just like, what's the chance you got 10 % off on this? Yeah. Just to see if you can make something happen. Yeah. Because if you don't ask, you're not going to get it. Right. And, um, it's just like a way to be playful. It's a way to like, see, can I enroll someone in something that I, maybe I shouldn't be getting, but I'm going to get. And it often works where the unexpected happens. Is there another line of communication that you use, maybe even unknowingly that you use consistently that seems to just help you enroll people in more of what you want? So I do, I absolutely use the, what's the chance?

1:01:08Really? Yeah. So I will use that when it feels like a surface, like a stalemate between the other attorney and look, what's the chance that your client's going to be able to do X, Y, and Z. Also, I will try to separate the attorney from the client. Same way I do with like the reception clerk versus the hotel. So I make sure that I acknowledge them as the person because I acknowledge their struggle of what they're going through. Right. And so if I talk to the attorney of, look, I can only imagine all the updates you're having to do or all the work you're putting through. I know that this is how you're doing the best thing you can for your client.

1:01:52I mean, between me and you, what's the chance that we can do X, Y, and Z? or if I were to do, or if I were to say, or if my client were, if I were to encourage my client to do this, is that something that I should do? And it gives them something to think about. Right. The same way like at a, let's say at a hotel or something like that, I can only imagine you just been, how long's your shift? Yeah. Yeah, seven hours. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's going to be. And so you just, yeah, you kind of create that connection with them that says I'm talking to you individually as a person rather than seeing you as the whole, then because that's who they are.

1:02:29Yeah, exactly. That's powerful. I wanted to go back to the panic attacks for a moment. Does it sound like you really studied your research a lot on how you could manage and have a better relationship with the anxiety or the stress that you were having for those eight days? Have you had more panic attacks since the moment? They've gotten less and less and less. Less and less. They've had like five, 10 minutes at a time or something. Yeah. So, uh, well I haven't had, I probably haven't had a panic attack. I've gotten very close probably in the last like three weeks, but what it is, is like a sense of boiling water.

1:03:06Like I can feel the water boiling and then I have my, and I can feel it in my body. Like I can feel it in my fingers of. Like tingly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or I'm typically never somebody to shake my leg, but if all of a sudden my leg is shaking, then I'm like, okay, something's up. and that all like that'll tell me right away uh all right what are we doing what's going on be able to kind of check in with myself and and how that's been but it's it's progress much better yeah it really has therapy helps yeah and in the that was really the source was not feeling alone in this kind of ecosystem that i didn't ask for like that this is never my goal of like, if I can only get so many followers.

1:03:53Yeah. I was like, uh, let's just go. I don't know. I got a few minutes. Let's go talk to my phone. Yeah. What is the, what has the relationship been like with your wife and your kids since experiencing the rise of your audience, but also the stress and panic that you've experienced over the last six months? How has your wife shown up for you? And how has it made you relate to your family differently? Well, having kids has made me much more just empathetic as a person. And I'll tell you that it is a way that we relate to each other is when I see them start to get really emotional, I can see myself in it.

1:04:40My son looks a lot like me. And so like I can, it's very much this kind of weird inner child, like dialogue. Like I'm telling them things that I wish I could have, I would have been told at, you know, Hey man, it's okay to cry. Just let it out, let it out. I was never told that, but I'm not going to make that mistake. And so my son is extremely waterworks all the time and i love it i mean he's emotional in movies i love it you know i was and so i to to see that where i go no no i've i've i've had that mistake of trying to put on this jefferson's got it all together mask yeah yeah just i got it all i got it all together it's it's you were just let it out man well it's all good it's all good and he will he'll just cries that i can't help it i'll say you don't need to he's good man you're good he's he's very both of my kids are extremely um empathetic with with movies um i i shared something before of this was like not that long ago and my son says how your day was that it was good buddy It was good.

1:05:57And he was like, what did you do? I was like, well, it was just good. It was a good day. It was fine. Truthfully, it was not good. It was a really horrible, it was a rough day. It was a rough day. I was tired. And later on that evening, he came up to me again. He said, so why did you tell me your day was good when it wasn't? Wow. I said, what? He said, you said it was good, but you didn't say it like it was good. I was like how did you how did you know he's like you said it like it wasn't good you said it like it was bad I feel everything yes and I was like how are you this young and like he had already sensed that he told me he was good he wasn't wow and so that that kind of aspect of it when you say how's my wife showing up for me she's allowed me to have the time to kind of explore hey you need make sure you're taking care of yourself and she's awesome at supporting anything that i'm after and we support both of our careers she has a full-time career as her doing her thing in in in school and school law and i have my my legal career and in terms of the social media stuff it doesn't affect anything like you could you could call it finstagram like nobody at my house it doesn't exist at my house.

1:07:12It's just your dad, mom, kids, man. That's all it is. Now, she's very supportive of it, and they know that every once in a while, dad will make a video. Sure. Because they want to make videos. I'm curious, with your upbringing, which sounds like you had a great upbringing, but also things that maybe you wish you would have had or experienced in certain ways from parents or life and with what you're experiencing now from, you know, building your career, getting married at a young age in today's society, and now having this kind of following and presence, what are three lessons, if you could only teach three lessons to your kids right now, what would those three lessons be that you wish you would have known growing up or that you did now and you want them to know.

1:08:04One would be always be authentic to who you are personally. Don't ever try to be anybody else than who you are. I can tell you that anytime I felt like I've needed to be somebody else, it was the wrong call every time that I try to be either more or less than just exactly who I am. You know, I see it as just a floor in an elevator. Doesn't mean it's a better floor or not. It's just, you need to be exactly where you're meant to be. Two is it's okay to feel like there are, it's okay to make mistakes. I grew up in a house where it was very, it was a lot of, I'll admit, let's put on myself, expectations of being the best at everything you could be, whatever it was.

1:08:55I just enjoyed it. and but the understanding that they don't have to put that pressure on on on themselves and number three is be kind to everybody kindness kindness never it never changes people value it now they always they always have we could talk for hours man but i want to wrap things up here in a few minutes um jefferson underscore fisher on instagram yeah uh all over social media you can find you. I'll have everything linked up there. Oh, cool. Thank you. You've got a, you've got a book you're working on that we'll probably have you back on in the future when that comes out, but I want people to follow you on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, all the places.

1:09:37Hopefully we'll get you on YouTube soon. Yeah. And, um, you do a daily video, man. You're a video. I mean, almost every day it seems like it's like every day you're given wisdom, you're given inspiration from daily lessons and law and your experience in life. And it's really inspiring to see you create from a place of generosity, from a place of service. So I want to acknowledge you for the consistency. And I also want to acknowledge you for opening up about the panics that you've expressed. Yeah, that was hard. And being vulnerable with your community and saying, hey, listen, guys, this is something I've never experienced.

1:10:13And I love having this community, but also I feel this sense of pressure and this overwhelm that I've never experienced in my life. And I think it's powerful to be talking about it because what we keep hidden and we hide continues to manifest and hurt us. You got it. And stress us. So the fact that you're talking about it is probably allowing you to release some. It really is. And relax some. I'm not saying it's going to solve every issue you have mentally or emotionally, but it's allowing you to set yourself free. So I acknowledge you for not having it all put together, not saying the perfect thing every time and allowing yourself to express how you feel, which sounds like is what your body needs.

1:10:54Yeah. Thank you very much. That's very well put. I acknowledge you, man, for doing the work and for continually doing it because healing is a journey. Yeah. And so I'm glad you're on that journey. And feel free to reach out anytime you want some support or just a chat. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. No, it's meant so much that you've been here. For sure. That means a lot to me. For sure, man. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end called the three truths. So imagine you get to live as long as you want, but it's your last day on earth. you get to accomplish all the dreams and experiences you want to have but for whatever reason all of your material your content your videos the books you make all these things they have to go to the next place with you or they're no longer in this world yeah this conversation is gone but it's your last day on earth and you get to leave behind three truths three lessons you would share with the world and this is all we have to remember your wisdom by what would be those three truths or lessons for you?

1:11:50Number one is the best piece of advice I received from my grandfather, who was an old East Texas attorney. He said, boy, you can't look back and plow a straight row. That's always stuck with me. Meaning encouraging people to be in the moment, in the present. If you look at what you're doing rather than looking for the next worry, your head's always going to be in the right place. Number two is you treat people however you want to be treated just that that very basic golden rule that we've all heard but sometimes it's the things we've heard the most that we really have soaked up the least and too many times that i've you know we skip over it and number three would be that at any time that you can show person kindness because you you'll never regret it there's so many things that i feel like generation generationally in our existence that we just got wrong it wasn't our fault we just weren't ready like we thought medicine was something different versus what we think medicine is now or you look at how we handled punishment or entertainment i mean versus now but kindness is it's not affected from inflation or recession or right it doesn't depreciate the kindness low kindness can invaluable.

1:13:17I love it. That was a great truce, man. Final question, Jefferson, what's your definition of greatness? Greatness is being able to show up for who you are in every level and every stage that you're meant to be in a way that spreads joy to everybody that you touch. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me, as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast.

1:13:51If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend, leave us a review over on Apple Podcast, and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you, and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

1:14:26And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

1:14:36Thank you.