Relationship Experts Debate the Hidden Causes of Cheating (5 Signs to Watch For) Matthew Hussey & Sadia Khan

0:00Hey everyone, this is Lewis Howes and I am so excited to invite you to the Summit of Greatness 2024 happening at the iconic Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles, California. This is more than just an event. It's a powerful experience designed to ignite your passion, boost your growth, and connect you with a community of other inspiring achievers. Join us Friday, September 13th, and Saturday, September 14th for two days packed with inspiration and transformation from some of the most incredible speakers on the planet. Don't miss out on this chance to elevate your life, unlock your potential, and be part of something truly special.

0:34Make sure to get your tickets right now and step into greatness with us at the Summit of Greatness 2024. Head over to lewishouse.com slash tickets and get your tickets today and I will see you there. I always ask, was there anything before marriage that signaled this person has the propensity to have two simultaneous connections? Nine times out of ten, there's always something. What are the main things? That he was in another relationship? Other simultaneous relationships or the person just never was single? It's a fairly dismal view of people. I know. you've just put forward. Welcome back, Sadia Khan, a psychologist and relationship coach, Sadia Khan.

1:10And we have dating and relationships expert and coach. The inspiring Matthew Hussey in the house, my man. But I know plenty of very strong women who have been cheated on. Yeah, when we get into relationships with people, it comes with conditions. Nobody's unconditional. Now, we sign an imaginary contract, but I've seen the needs you have, you've seen the needs I have. We naturally expect our partners to guess our needs. Human nature is flawed. Forgive me if I'm misreading. No, no, no. I'm sure you're right. But it feels like for you, the headline is, it was your fault. And for me, the headline is, this was them.

1:42And I would highly disagree with that because... I am truly shocked. When someone is wearing a mask or living a double life, meaning they have a relationship or a marriage or kids, but then they're going out and trying to seek something else somewhere else to live a different identity, to express themselves in a different way. What is that saying about them that they're either missing or that they need to work on to overcome? They're unable to have difficult conversations with the people they need to have it with. So instead, they just find a way to release the energy and mask what that need is, rather than actually confront the issue where it should be.

2:23So whoever they have fallen in love with or started a life with, they started it on more kind of on the dynamic that you were describing in your 20s. they started it on that dynamic of suppressing who they truly are, suppressing their true needs, but not having the courage to walk away and not having the courage to end it. And as a result, they've had to maintain this false identity for the rest of their life, which as they get older and they get more disgruntled and they fear like the fear of losing their family decreases. As men age, it's not like the sex drive goes up, but their willingness to cheat kind of sometimes goes up because they're like, oh, they're a bit more brave.

2:58So they end up then, you know, engaging in behaviors that they shouldn't be doing. And this all stems from if they just had a more vulnerable, honest conversation with the person they love to begin with, they wouldn't find themselves searching for themselves in other people. Wow. Could you, when you say men get older and they get more kind of brave about cheating, how do you understand? What I noticed is like in the beginning stages, because they're still in the people stages in a fearful state, they don't risk it as much as children come along and as they feel less and less appreciated. I'm not saying they deserve appreciation all the time.

3:33Some men really are difficult. But as they mentally feel like I've spent 10 years being loyal to her and they almost feel like it's a credit, like 10 years being. I deserve this or something. I deserve. Yeah. So I deserve. So they say, I've done this and I've always been a great husband. and I've always been picking up the kids and I've always, you know, kind of suppressed my sexual desires whenever she doesn't want it. Now I deserve something special. I'm not getting what I've needed for the last 10 years or what I've wanted. Yeah. And I'm not saying they're wrong or right, but that's the mental conversation they have.

4:02And because they develop this deserved entitlement, I'm not saying maybe they do deserve it, maybe they don't. They then start to think... We should probably say it's wrong. Yeah, I mean, sometimes what happens in their defense, sometimes what happens is they have clearated a really good, and they have been a good husband for many years. But in the process of being a good husband, it's been done by suppressing their needs. So they sometimes... But they haven't been courageous in expressing them either. That's the main problem. It's not that the wife is this evil wife that deprives them of sex or deprives them of intimacy.

4:30Some men have gone months, years without getting that fundamental need met. But they never voiced it enough. They might say it in a jokey way or in a drunken night out that I don't get enough sex. but they don't say it in a constructive way. Why do you think men are more willing to cheat than have a courageous conversation and say to their wife or their partner, here's what I really want sexually? Because what they truly desire sexually is going to be met with some resistance with the partner they selected. And they understand that - Or they think it will. They think it will. And they think that it's almost uncomfortable.

5:01Whatever they're desiring, they almost, when you have a wife and you've seen her breastfeed your children and you've gone through that kind of experience with her, It almost feels unfair to tell her your fantasy about what you want done. So they have these two kind of compartments when it comes to sex. And then that one almost feels unaligned to the woman they married. That's interesting. But why are we talking about this just in the vein of men and not women saying that I've put in all of this work. I've raised these kids. I've been here 20 years. I quite feel entitled to a younger, hotter man now.

5:34Why are we talking about this just in the context of men? In just my experience of it, what happens in my experience of women that love their husband and have this connected lifestyle, their desire for sex decreases as they feel more connected. As they have the kids, as they're stable, they feel like, oh, we had the adventurous sex in the first 10 years. Like, I don't need to do this at 45 years old. Like, I've done my time. Aren't there stats, though? I don't know the stats on this, but aren't there stats actually more damning sometimes for women than men in how many women cheat in long-term relationships?

6:03I would imagine they are so, but I would still say it might be because they had a people-pleaser kind of husband that they couldn't get that masculinity out of her. They couldn't get those courageous conversations out of her. They couldn't get that confrontational nature out of him. And they found it in a man that would just say, I want this from you. I want that from you. And that meant that make them feel a bit more alive than the guy that's kind of suppressing himself. But again, this is just, like I said, I have a skewed version of male version of events. so what i have in my experience if they think they've done 10 years of loyalty they deserve 10 years of like enjoying their life or even one year or even one year they're like okay i can just have a few escorts every now and then particularly if they've been deprived of sex they can always compromise with any other deprivation but when they feel deprived of sex they feel like they've earned the right to free sex with as they get older wow but if but what can men do in that position let's say there's a man who's been in a five to 15 year marriage they've got a family that you have kids and they've tried to do their best as a husband and a leader and a father.

7:07But they are just craving some type of sexual adventure. And they, deep down, don't think that their wife can give them that. Or maybe they can't get out of their head what they've seen the last 15 years of their wife breastfeeding and being a motherly figure and not a sexual figure, whatever it is. Yeah, something's, the switch has turned off. Yeah, maybe the switch has turned off because they're now like motherly as opposed to sexual being, whatever it might be. What can a man do to communicate what they want sexually without hurting the woman they're with? I think the first thing is to watch your habits.

7:38If you are constantly stimulating yourself with too much pornography and too much social media and stuff, that's not going to help your situation by looking at novel situations again and again. So watch what you consume. The second conversation is you've just got to remember what means more to you. Does the thrill of sex mean more to you than the safety of a marriage and kids. Now, if you recognize that marriage means more, but it doesn't mean I don't want the thrill. I still want that. I still deserve that. Then what it moves on to is having conversations with your wife to understand how you can ignite that sex appeal in her.

8:10Perhaps there's something you're doing that's making you not feel like you are not tapping into that femininity in her. It's sometimes a dynamic. So ask her, is there something that I used to do or I can do that would make you feel more connected to me. And they say, oh, in the beginning, she was so wild. But maybe in the beginning, you were taking her out more. Or maybe in the beginning, you were texting her a lot more. Or maybe in the beginning, you weren't turning to pornography on nights when you were. So maybe there was behaviors in you in the beginning that ignited a part of her that made her more.

8:40That you stopped giving her that. Yeah. So have those conversations. And sometimes some women are just plain difficult. And I understand those circumstances. But until you've tried what you did in the beginning, you can't completely complain that that's gone. Yeah. And before I jump to you, Matthew, do you think from the men that you're working with that you hear conversations with, are you hearing that more men cheat or more women cheat? From my experience, it's more women. Yeah, from my experiences. And a couple of reasons for that is women are naturally, in my experience and being a woman myself, is we're a bit more aware of a man's propensity to cheat.

9:15So we're not particularly naive when it comes to when he's gone for too long and he hasn't answered too many calls and he hasn't been available. We're a bit more attuned to these signs. What's happening? Yeah. We ask him, hey, where were you? And you weren't saying what was happening or vague. We've had friends that have been cheated on that tell us all about it and they tell us all the signs. Our mums might tell us all the signs and stuff. Whereas for men that conversation is so sacred, they don't really have that with each other. So they're also missing, so they go in with a little bit of naivety that women just don't cheat whatsoever.

9:43They just think my wife would never. That's their common thing, that she would never. And the other thing is they're not attuned to the signs. They're not attuned to the signals. So when she is depriving him of affection or depriving of attention or when she starts taking care of herself and going out a little bit more or making more of an effort to go to work. They just see that as normal feminine behavior. They just see that as girls getting dressed up. They don't necessarily see the signs that it's a change in dynamic. They don't pick up the signals as much. They become a little bit curious, but they don't become accusatory the same way that...

10:13Really? Were you saying why do women cheat more? I was saying who cheats more based on your experience of conversations you're having and what you're noticing. What are you thinking about why women cheat more? If that's true. In my personal experience with the women that do cheat, it's not that all women cheat, but the women that do cheat, it's very little to do with the woman itself. It's more to do with the man she selects. Really? Yeah. In my experience, I can look at a couple and tell by the man if she's going to cheat, where the men in her have a very strong dynamic, where it's very clear that they know each other inside out and where they can be themselves completely.

10:49And more so than anything, I can tell she feels safe in his company. It's unlikely she cheats. But where I feel like she's kind of the boss or she feels like she doesn't respect his opinion, and it's not necessarily she's just like he's kind of allowed himself to take that backseat. Where she can disrespect him openly, where she feels like she can tell him anything and he just instantly believes it and follows her commands, it sets him in a position where she doesn't have a fear of losing him. And as a result of no fear of losing him, there's an openness to try alternatives because she knows if worst case scenario, he finds out he's still going to stay.

11:22and that's it's a fairly dismal view of people i know you've just put forward unless they don't have values within right yeah the thing that's missing from this conversation is values on the men's and the women's side is that it's kind of the you know the idea there with women is that they're if they if they don't respect their man they'll cheat as opposed to they'll cheat if they lack the values that prevent someone but i would imagine their values determines what they select in the process. When you have those values that open you up to sex, you tend to select people who have a kind of agreeableness that allows for that.

12:00And I would say the same for men. Men who know they have a propensity to cheat are probably not going to select a very strong-minded woman who will say, absolutely not. I will walk away if this happens. They tend to cheat, select. I think their values combine, it affects their selection process. And so they select a more agreeable and less secure individual to begin with. I know plenty of very strong women who have been cheated on. Yeah, I do. I do know plenty of strong women who have been cheated on. But in the process of being cheated on, at the time of selection, they weren't strong. I would say that there's something in this.

12:34Most people who've been severely hurt, that cheating is not something that makes you an evil person. I have to put it out there. I personally have never cheated, but I'm not saying this as a moral how. I don't see it as an evil trait. I just see it as a misbehavior. Some people are cheaters and have terrible other traits. It's just an addition. Some people are driven in a desperate state or whatever it is. But when you've been severely hurt by somebody, you have to look at the day you selected them. Chances are if you select somebody who's very difficult and treats you badly and then on top of that cheats, the day you selected them, you were not in a secure place.

13:06I don't know if I can buy that. That may be true for some. Or maybe you didn't ask all the right questions. You didn't get all the information you needed. But I think there is a kind of, you know, there are plenty of people who wind up with people who end up treating them very poorly. Yeah. Where there was just the, you know, they just could not have foreseen that this person was. I always argue the opposite. I say humans, nobody lies. And the reason I say. Nobody lies. Nobody lies. And the reason I say that is verbally we can all lie. I can sit here and tell you I'm a blonde, but you can, you as a human being are responsible for assessing whether my words and behaviors align.

13:50Right. But I don't know if you're going to cheat on me in five years. I personally. I can't. I can't go into a relationship going, I know for sure you won't cheat on me in five years. And if by the, by the rationale that you said men cheat in relationships, which is that they essentially feel like they've put in their service, like they're in the army and they've done their time. And you know, at that point they feel like, God, you know what? I really feel entitled to an escort or to this stage. By that rationale, you couldn't have seen it with that guy because back when he was putting in his service, he was a totally committed man.

14:23I would say that even with men, I would say there's a couple of things. I would say that it's not that I can, even with my own husband, it's not that I know for sure he's going to cheat or not cheat. But you know when somebody has a propensity and how you know they have a propensity is chances are most cheaters have cheated in the past and they've told you something. They've told you something. They won't tell you directly, but they might give you hints where they might say, oh, and we weren't working out. And so towards the end, I met somebody and towards... They'll use that common phrase towards the end.

14:51Or they might say... Or you might just notice that they are a hypersexual. They need that as a form of connection all the time. So if you deprive them of that, they might... The key thing is you've got to know what people are like in terms of what they do when they're at their worst. If you've noticed that they're worse, they can be emotionally abusive. At their worst, they can be cheeses. they kind of show you that in the courting stage before marriage sure but someone can be hypersexual and just be great sex in a relationship how are you to know that hypersexual means they're going to have an inability to be monogamous versus they've just got very high sex drive that's going to make for a great sex life if i deprive them of that that hypersexuality is not going to go anywhere so i know that if i am dealing with somebody hypersexual no problem but i have to understand with their hypersexuality means when if and when i deprive them of that i open a door Similarly, I might be hyper I'm hyper emotional I'm hyper clingy All those things Luckily, my partner's very kind of responsive If he deprives me of that thing That is very clear to him from day one Chances are, God forbid Who knows?

15:52Something might happen It's when you deprive people What they should do You're letting people off the hook so easily Really? Yeah, because if your husband wasn't giving you Attention or time or whatever I would assume That there would be 200 conversations That would happen Prior to you deciding I'm going to go off and get with a bloke on the side Yeah The same is true the other way around You may not cheat, you might just end it I'm personally not a cheat, yeah, so I understand If we're taking the guy you're talking about That's hypersexual And the woman who hasn't had sex with him For a period of time Yeah There's nothing that excuses The inability to have the 100 conversations that need to happen That's what most people don't do I would love if that was true That's what you're saying I would love that What I take issue with is not calling out.

16:41It's almost like a calling out of the person who's not had sex with the person. Yeah. As opposed to calling out the person who's not having the conversation. Yeah, I understand what you mean. But here's the thing. When we get into relationships with people, it comes with conditions. Nobody's unconditional. Now, we sign an imaginary contract that I've seen the needs you have. You've seen the needs I have. We naturally expect our partners to guess our needs. If people are naturally, we're in a very, all praise be to God, privileged position where we understand the importance of communication The average person who's never done any self-help, who's never done anything, will interpret My wife doesn't have sex with me, she doesn't love me They're not thinking I need to vocalize this Similarly, a woman saying my man's never complimented me Do I tell him I want more compliments or do I go with the guy at work who would naturally compliment me?

17:25Human nature is flawed So instead, I get it's totally wrong It's not a justification it's more just understanding that ideally we should have these conversations ideally we should be emotionally articulate and realistically it doesn't happen so the best thing we can do is select people who are values naturally align with us and people show us our values quite early on but based on what you've just said i would say the best thing we can do is is partner with a good communicator yeah not partner with someone that we just hope to god we always meet their values because they can't communicate and if we ever don't meet them they're going to be running i would agree that's why some people break up is because they get into relationship without communicating their true values yeah they truly are and they get together based on attraction or based on common likes and interests my my greatest fear early on in meeting someone would always be if we can't have conversations because the you know if you take it if you take you know a version of what you're talking about that I think shows up in early dating it's ghosting right what is ghosting I've decided I don't want you anymore or I'm not getting my needs met in some way or whatever yeah and I do the ultimate in not communicating I just disappear um and when that happens it's what you know we what we have is someone in front of us who cannot communicate Right.

18:49So the answer to that to me isn't how, you know, how do I figure out how to make sure I do everything right next time so that I don't get ghosted? The answer is, how do I make sure that I pre-select for the kind of person that when things get difficult or when they don't get their needs met, has a conversation with me instead of just disappears off the face of the earth? Yeah. But have you not seen in your practice, sometimes some people have never done, like never cheated or anything like that, but something in this relationship or something has triggered them and they become a person they don't recognize.

19:21But I do agree, it's down to poor communication, because every need can be communicated. But do you think it is just a character flaw or do you think it's a flaw in the dynamic of the relationship? Or have you been in relationships where that person I could have cheated on, this person I can never think of doing? Do you think it's a dynamic for me personally i would say it's more of a character thing because i've got religious beliefs and blah blah but i do think most people it's a dynamic thing rather than a character thing i mean i don't think the rest of the world needs religious beliefs to have that character thing yeah i think that's a you know the golden rule is enough yeah but do you think everybody has that or do you think it's a dynamic in the relationship that can ignite a different character i think people are look i think people are capable of all sorts of things and we have to you know there's of course there's a place for real life and i'm not someone who says you know if someone cheats that's an unforgivable sin that's up to the person who's in a relationship with them whether they want to forgive that or not and certainly the person who cheats is going to have to learn how to forgive themselves otherwise they're going to have a miserable life afterwards yeah um so i but i do i do think what protects us in relationships is the values that we have the character that we have um and do you think it's on us to select people with that right character or just expect them to have that character once we select them up to 100 up to us to select people with that character to to look for you know beyond attraction and say how does this person show up on difficult days how how do they show up when they're not getting what they want whenever they want how do they show up when you know i'm i happen to be the one today who needs more than i can give yeah um how do they show up when their needs are deprived for a while 100 and those and that ability to communicate is that's where trust comes from and i think the reason i'm pointing this out is because i think that it would be a it would be a frightening fate to be with someone where your trust is based on making sure you're always meeting their needs no matter what not in their ability to communicate if they're not needs aren't being met i agree you know trust has to come from you will communicate with me if your needs aren't being met yes and of course there will be there's going to be consequences at some point if you keep communicating with me that your needs aren't being met and I don't take that seriously there are going to be of course consequences to the relationship if nothing else you might leave and what do we do because look I have this very candid conversations with men about this you know sexual deprivation which tends to be a driving force and a lot of people's cheating and even me being on the therapeutic end of it even I'm surprised at how important it is to them and even I'm uncomfortable with the information and it's not directly at me what advice would you give to women in receiving this very brutal kind of conversations that men may be secretly wanting to have but they know it's not socially acceptable they know it's not going to be the nicest way to tell a woman i'm saying this as somebody where it's not even about me and even i leave going like oh god is this what men really say it's not acceptable about communicating what you want sexually yeah or like the frequency i would look at that and i would argue that that's a guy who's not been himself for a long time or maybe ever right because why is a why would a person find out 10 years into a marriage you're a freak seriously because someone's ashamed of it that's my point that's not on her yeah that's on the that's on her to ask the right questions though maybe but it's it's we have to take just as we wouldn't say if we were talking about it the other way around we wouldn't say it's his job to ask every right question to understand everything about her it's not his job to be a mind reader it's her job to make sure that she communicates the blueprint for what really turns her on what makes her excited what makes her happy that no one should be asked to be a mind reader in a relationship and also if you don't just communicate verbally how do you end how does someone know within six months of dating you that you are a very like you've got a lot of kinks sexually you try them you start like you You start to bring some of them in and you see if you have an active, you know, a willing audience.

23:40But that's something someone should find out at that point. We've not been being ourselves for a long time. If we're saying years into a marriage, God, how do I communicate these things that I really want to do to my partner? We've got to communicate early on. And to answer your question, I think that the woman in that situation or the man in that situation, frankly, because I hear from a lot of women who say, God, I want to do things with my man that he's unable to talk about. um you know i think that's that's true on both sides the number of women who get disillusioned in their sex life because they're like god my man won't show up in the adventurous ways that i want i i'm enjoying it happens both ways oh my god the number of women that are like i really want to do this kinky thing over here and he's just not into it or i'm afraid because i feel he'll judge me for it that's huge i i think we have to have a partner that if we're the partner on the receiving end of that information what we have to be is brave yeah because what we receive as is a threat it's i'm not good enough for you i'm not you're you want something you're not attracted to me yeah you want something else that i can't give you yeah you know you're having all of these fantasies away from me you're watching porn how dare you you're thinking about other women and it's like missing the headline the headline is your partner trusted you and the relationship enough to bring this to you and to have this conversation with you and be and it takes some bravery it's not easy but it takes some bravery to say well they're trusting me with this information and it's interesting information it's actually if i can get past my ego this is valuable information yeah yeah and this if i if i can start to be brave which will require me to break my own patterns because if they really want to they want me to show up like this in the bedroom i'm gonna have to get a little uncomfortable because i've been showing up in my comfort zone for the last 10 years yeah i have to i'm gonna have to grow here i'm gonna have to like bring a different energy that takes bravery and it takes a growth mindset it really does and if we don't have those two things then when someone brings something to us we're going to get defensive or shame them or judge them for it and then of course you're creating that then you're really hurting the relationship but you know in my personal experience when clients do come to me when they have had some level of betrayal.

25:57I always ask, what was your relationship like before the marriage? What happened before the relationship got serious? And 99 % of the time, the person showed them that they have the capability to have two simultaneous connections at the same time. They either stole that person from an ex, that person was either dating somebody else, they knew that person was already married. There's always some signal that is there somewhere. It's more when the childhood sweethearts and they turn out together and that comes out of the blue or when somebody's lived a double life but majority of the time most people when i ask them what happened in before you got married they'll be able to tell you why there was a cheating when they ended because of a betrayal i always ask was there anything before marriage that signaled this person has the propensity to have two simultaneous connections nine times out of ten there's always something what are the main things that he was in another relationship other simultaneous relationships or the person just never was single.

26:52They went from one person to another person to another person. Then they were using you as a numbing cream to get over the last person. Or there was inconsistencies in the truth. They weren't telling you the truth. And a lot of times you caught them in a lot of lies and you forgave every lie. You forgave a lot of cheating in the past. You thought that is done and dusted before marriage. So the reason why I put all the accountability on the person rather than the actual cheat is I always say this. The person who was cheated on you. Yeah. I always put myself included. And the reason I put even my own accountability on there is because I'm very aware that there's thieves everywhere, but I lock my doors.

27:25I do it on purpose If I leave my doors unlocked I can't be totally blindsided if something's stolen Similarly when I'm selecting a partner and they've I've seen these major flags before marriage but because I love them and because they've given a Green light because I'm so attached to them and I've chosen to ignore it Then I can't be totally the victim in the situation. I was a Voluntary participant and the reason I say this is so many times when people do have the betrayal and they're rages over they'll say oh yeah in the beginning he used to do this I should have known in the big they always refer to the beginning stages of the relationship no there was something that they knew it's not chose to lie never come or wish that they would change or maybe they're not going to be this way in the future same thing with abuse they never come to me and just say yesterday this happened emotional abuse yeah abuse and is cheating they never say yesterday they started they say they've always did this and I gave them another chance they said they would stop they promised me they would change those sentences come up so much suggesting that this person showed you something but i think that the the reason i can't when i hear this it really i struggle with it is not because anyone who knows me knows for me like i'm as close to like extreme ownership as you'll get and as a person i want to own the ability to change anything in my life so i'm not someone who i'm not a you know complainer in the world kind of person yeah that's not me but but the reality of so many relationships is that there are people who are extremely convincing there are people who are extremely um their ability to uh to brainwash you into something you never thought you would be capable of accepting the ability to have your reality distorted over time um it is it is profound and it is humbling and everyone thinks it could never happen to them right until it happens to them and then you go oh my god how how did i allow that for so long and true and it's i feel it's important because forgive me if i'm misreading No, no, no.

29:46I'm sure you're right. It feels like for you, the headline is it was your fault. And for me, the headline is this was them. At some point in the process of helping you, let's definitely get to the question of what's what was happening in you that allowed you to turn a blind eye to this for so long or ignore those signs when they came up. and let's do that work because we need to make sure that no one can ever get in in this way again but to me the headline the the only way to heal is to start from a place of what was done was wrong yes it was them it was their character it it was disgraceful and that we are someone that that was done too that doesn't mean we can't change it and it doesn't mean we can't get out it doesn't mean we can't change the way we approach these things in the future but i just worry that someone listening to this would think that the headline is it's my fault as opposed to the headline is this person revealed who they are showed their character and and did something really really wrong that you deserve compassion for i think you're both right and i'm really glad that you're saying this because i'm sure this is what people in the comments are probably reaching to say here's what i'll add in here because i can i can relate to like both things like okay here are the signs that i saw even though and this thing happened later i'm responsible because i did see signs but also they did something horrible and it is their fault so i think it's a both and and i think it's it's and what i could say now is like can both of those be true i think they i think they can both be true and what i can say like from seeing it from a different perspective now where i feel like i'm in a healthier place uh in my own relationship is that when i entered my relationship you know with martha i entered it from a place of i don't need this relationship not that like screw you i don't care if this works out or not but i don't need this i'm not anxious to make sure this happens.

32:02As we started to get to know each other, I was like, I want this to happen if we're in alignment on our values. If we're not, then I wish you the best. But I'm not going to enter something if the values are not aligned for both of us, because then we're just going to, it's going to be too much friction. It's going to be so hard work. It's not going to be enjoyable for either of us. And therefore, in the dating process with Martha, there was never an inconsistency with her words and her actions based on her values. So I was able to see words, actions, they matched. And she was able to see that with me.

32:34And that means we both had to be extremely communicative to each other. We both had to be courageous with each other on our wants, our needs, the things we don't like, and speak those things early on in risking someone, the other person not wanting to be with each other. And I think because we entered in that way, it feels healthier now it doesn't mean like everything's going to be perfect and work out for you know the rest of our lives or whatever but it feels like i can fully see who she is and if she did something sure it would be out of character that would be hurtful but i'm also okay as well yeah and also another side note here is like i just yeah i mean i love that you both shared this because i agree my headline is it's your fault and i really stand by that person who was like yeah we also see that to finish the thought here is you also hear this when women go through a divorce yeah and you ask them this question on your wedding day when you're walking down the aisle did you have a feeling that something was off most people would say something was off some people might say no everything is the happiest day yeah it was perfect and like i had no signs yeah it's like were you really also asking the tough questions maybe you were yeah but did you ask all these different questions or did you just want to be with that but and that's why i would stand by that i'm not saying it's your fault you got cheated on i'm not saying i have neither of you ever had a personal relationship a friendship or a business relationship that that really caught you off guard when someone didn't show up and you thought god that was a day where i really thought they'd show up for me and they didn't and it really caught you off that's never happened but when i was able to look back oh there might have been some signals right but that's fine but it's incredibly lack but it's so lacking in self-compassion to go straight to and therefore it's my fault it's not me it's your fault if they don't show up yeah but it's also having the wrong expectations on the wrong here's what i would say i definitely stand by it's your fault in life with everything your weight is your fault your your income is your everything is your responsibility i'm on the extreme those are different things fault and responsibility are very different things yeah but some people you know some people say it's your consequence which is like a positive it's a consequence of choices consequence of right but that and even in consequence consequence doesn't to to connect all of that with fault is a it's a strange connection to make in a lot of cases responsibility makes sense always wherever i am today me taking responsibility for making my life better always and forever makes sense but i find the the worrying spending this time worrying about where to point the finger to be a quite unproductive and also completely devoid of self-compassion and it is absolutely true that there are people who we may have Seen on a lower level Some inconsistency In their behavior or we may have seen some things That we didn't love It is Anyone who spends a lot of time In narcissistic relationships Will tell you that the ways That someone Was able to shock them On when things Really hit the fan Could There wasn't some steady trajectory To like low level grievances to i had cancer and they wouldn't drive me to the hospital yeah no one no until they're they're in that place no one knows who that person is going to be disagree with that and i would highly disagree with that because very few people who maintain promises then don't show up when you're in the hospital for cancer so when i'm my husband one of the reasons why i'm so attached and why i select is because i never experienced a canceled date I never experienced late.

36:38It was never a case where he'd say I'm coming at 3, he'd come at 5. Never. And I remember there would never be a cancelled date. So when you're dealing with that person and then I went into hospital for cancer and he didn't turn up, then I can honestly say, well, this may not be my fault or there's been such a change in his character that I haven't paid attention to. Maybe recently he has been breaking promises, but this is just the final one that I paid attention to. So I would still take onus on that. The reason why I think self compassion should be replaced with self-responsibility is being compassionate with yourself will allow you to think that you are a victim to other people who are just terrible but when you realize that selection is more important in determining your outcomes than any other factor you'll be more cautious of selection i'm truly shocked to hear you say that self-compassion isn't the answer no i don't believe that what is your definition of self-responsibility versus self-compassion I think self-compassion is forgiving yourself for your mistakes, but not ignoring you made the mistakes.