Rick Rubin: The Secret to Your Most Authentic Expression (Creativity Will Flow Like CRAZY!)

30:08I can't say I've done it continually, but I go through phases of five years on, two years off, or something might replace it that's another kind of a meditation. Like I may go from a TM sitting meditation to learning Tai Chi and Tai Chi will be, will fill the slot of my TM time. Right. Transcendental meditation. Yeah. Um, and I also read that you really never been into drugs or alcohol. Is that correct? I've never been drunk or high in my life. Wow. And, um, you know, as an athlete playing football, college football and professional football, it was kind of shocking when people would hear that from me because the stereotype is, you know, the dumb jock that just drinks into the cake stands.

30:54But I learned early on, I was telling you before that my brother went to prison when I was eight. And when you go to a prison, the visiting room every single weekend, um, and you realize quickly, you don't want to go there. And a lot of, a lot of guys were in there for drugs or, you know, doing bad things. And for me, I was just like, Oh, I don't even want to try some of this stuff because I don't know where this might lead. So let me just eliminate this from my life. Now I've had sips here and there, but I've never been drunk. How has cleansing your mind of drugs and alcohol of not really diving into it supported you as an artist?

31:34And do you think drugs and alcohol can make artists be great? I can tell you that when I was going to high school, most of the kids that I knew would come home from school and get high. And the main reason was out of boredom and just trying to fill time. and I never, I always feel like there's not enough time. Like there's so much I want to learn. There's so much I want to read. There's so much I want to try that I'm not trying to turn off time. I'm interested in something different. Now the idea of a hallucinatory experience sounds interesting to me, but I've not done it. You've never done psychedelics or anything.

32:21I've never done that either. I've always been, you know, I have a lot of friends that do it. I'm sure you do as well. Uh, and I don't know, for whatever reason, it's never excited me to try. Yeah. Maybe in the future. Yeah. Same. I feel like someday I, I will probably do it. Right. Um, so have you been drunk or high? I got drunk one time as part of a school assignment. School assignment. Well, what school is this? Um, I went to Harvard for a summer between my junior and senior year of high school to start getting college credits and i took a logic class in a design class and they had a harvard bartending class that i thought that's really funny even as someone who doesn't drink the idea of like having a degree in bartending from harvard was funny so i did it and i thought of it like chemistry the idea of mixing things is interesting interesting it's only one time yeah we the final exam was you to mix like 30 different drinks and then taste them to know what they taste like and i got really drunk and it was terrible experience so you've never been drunk since then no you've been high or no i i went on my 40th birthday in kawaii um i prayed all day and i did a ceremony where i smoked some marijuana the only time in my life and um and i would say it had almost no effect yeah almost no so you might have felt a little buzz or something but nothing i didn't feel a buzz i would say that when i looked down into uh the landscape there was more clarity between the foreground and background that was one and i remember we drove to dinner and i drove and driving felt more fun than usual like playing a video sure sure sure but you weren't really high or whatever that's fascinating so never really drunk or high except for a social experiment or you know a one-time trial thing um i don't think i've met many people who's never been drunk or high like me so that's pretty interesting maybe that's the pisces in us you know maybe maybe and you know pisces have a tendency to go the other way of everything we are addictive people yes historically yes i see that's why one of the things is i don't think if i would have gotten into alcohol or or some type of drug i think i would have become a dick i would have been extreme with it yeah so i've tried to be extreme and more healthier ways, I think, for myself.

34:45Now, the stereotype is, or the generalization is, that a lot of artists smoke weed or do drugs or experiment with alcohol or do these different things, and they talk, maybe this is my own perception of it, they talk about it in their creative process, right? I was high when I did this, and it gave me all these creative ideas. How do you view that of when artists are working with you, are they smoking are they drinking you know when they're with you or do you try to help them eliminate that to clear their mind um i want people to do what they want to do i have no um no if if i see someone doing something that's interfering with their work i'll talk about it but if it's not interfering with their work that's their business have you ever seen an artist that you knew had a history of alcohol or smoking marijuana or some type of drug

35:43that when they worked with you, they were clear of all drugs and substances, and they were actually able to create something beautiful and magical? Well, I saw the Chili Peppers go from a band that were very dysfunctional on a lot of drugs, which I didn't really know. I just knew that when I met them, the feeling in the room was when I didn't want to be around. and then I met them years later and they had gotten clean and I felt like it was a different group of people and then we ended up making Blood Sugar Sex Magic which ended up being a very successful album for them and then I produced most of their albums since.

36:26When they were clean and you know, that's interesting. Do you think that people overall make better work as artists when they are clear-minded without substances? I think over the long term, that's probably the case, but there are many great artists who use something like marijuana as a. Some people have told me that they can hear music in a different way. Again, I haven't experienced it, so I can't say, but some people have told me that they hear music in a different way when they smoke and they can access their creativity. so I think you have to do your own testing. Do you think it's better to make, I don't know about better is the right word, but do you think it's more impactful to make your art from a place of pain, anger, or sadness, or from a place of love, peace, and harmony?

37:24I don't think it matters. I think it's true to your experience. And so if you're feeling anger and sadness, a sad, angry song would probably be good. And if you're feeling love and peace, then you're in the right frequency to create that kind of song. You can also sometimes if you're in a real pain, you can write a yearning song for love that can be very deep. But one of the things about when you're in pain, you tap into things, you're looking for, you're not satisfied in your condition, so you're yearning for change. And sometimes the energy of yearning for change can lead to really beautiful music.

38:15Right. Wow. Is there someone that you're able to talk about or share that spoke and created from a place of yearning when they worked with you that later said it was extremely healing process for them working with you for a few weeks on an album and expressing their diary in that way and allowed them to heal and have lightness on the other side? uh the most recent one was um i made an album the last album of kesha and her she had gone through very difficult experience yeah and she told me that it was a very healing experience working on the album and different than any experience she'd had previously where it was much more about commerce before what's the most painful thing you've been through that you've had to heal and overcome probably the biggest one was um you know i was overweight most of my life and it was just it was i was not comfortable in my body and i always felt like an outsider and felt like it limited what i could do really yeah so i think probably weight was my biggest issue what was the the root behind that you think i think it was mostly bad information.

39:36Although my mom was obese, so I thought it's just genetic. And I tried everything. I tried every type of diet, nothing worked. And then eventually I found the correct balance. I was a vegan for 23 years and I weighed 318 pounds as a vegan. Wow. Yeah, you can be a sick vegan. or you can be able, yeah. I was very sick as a vegan and I wasn't getting what I needed. Right. And it's basically a carbohydrate diet. Yeah, and you can have all the sugar you want being a vegan, but that doesn't mean it's healthy for you as well. Exactly. So it's like, what do you think was, you know, it sounded like you tried a lot of different things for 20 years, but it didn't work.

40:23But you found the right combination, but was there something you needed to mend or heal emotionally that allowed you to shift internally? It was just information. I was always willing to do it. I would say probably the biggest, maybe there is an aspect, which is I thought I knew what was best. So there was a sense of turning over control to someone else. That was a surrender. I saw a doctor at UCLA who a friend of mine recommended I go to. I knew it wasn't going to work because I had done everything and nothing worked and um he put me on a particular diet and i remember thinking it sounds terrible but i and it's not going to work but i'll you know i'll do what you say that no belief and uh but i put my faith in him or i i gave up faith i gave up but listened and uh and committed to the process and committed to the process and the weight fell off really how long did it take was like a six month year process 14 months and i lost 135 pounds man that's awesome congrats on that thank you very much wow and when was this 12 years ago something like 12 years ago you look really healthy right now maybe that uh that suntan you know wherever you're at i spent a lot of time in the sun yeah i'm i'm a sun worshiper now do you feel like um when you were able to i guess get that support see the changes physically do something transform inside of you spiritually to be a better artist once that transformation started to happen or did you think you were still making great art you know when you were 100 pounds overweight would you say i think we were making great art the whole time the differences between losing weight and then and meeting Laird and starting to train and get into my body because I was sedentary my whole life.

42:26Just sitting all day. Sitting all day or laying down all day. I liked laying down more than sitting. This is the longest I've been in a chair since I've been on an airplane. With Laird, when I showed up to Laird's the first time, I couldn't do one push-up. Come on. I swear to you, could not do one push-up. And with his support, I worked up to being able to do 100 consecutive pushups, which was mind-blowing. So what changed between the weight loss and meeting Laird was I now see anything is possible and that you could train for anything. There's nothing you can't do. you can't be the best in the world at something but you can be a lot better than you are at anything you want to put the time into learning whatever it is you could do anything and that's a great inspiring feeling and i feel like i bring that into the art where i already had great confidence but even more so i now know anything is possible at any time wow just if you have to do the work.

43:41So this was 12 years ago when this started to happen, right? And so if I've got my wrath right, are you 60 right now? Yeah, I just turned 60. Just turned 60 in March. I just turned 40. If you could go back to your 40-year-old self, what would the number one piece of advice be for you at 40? If you can think about where you were then, who you were working with, the projects you were working on, the people in your life, knowing what you went through the last 20 years what would you tell yourself then i would always say just have as much fun as possible because we um i'm a workaholic by nature and i love making things and i love making good things and a great deal of time and effort goes into that and uh and i'm hard on myself in that way in that I have high expectations.

44:35And I think we can have fun too. Yeah, of course, yeah. What brings you the most joy? I think probably quality time in nature with my family. That's probably the best. Being in a beautiful place, being close to my family, breathing fresh air, walking on the beach, um laughing together reading together watching movies together you know watching wrestling you know i like pro wrestling yeah of course pro wrestling with my son it's fun that's great are you more of a wrestling fan or ufc now always been pro wrestling yeah ufc feels like they might hurt each other they do that's why i like wrestling it's like it's more uh everybody's on the same side for it to be the best show.

45:23They want it to be a win-win. It's a win-win. You talked about that in this documentary series about I love the video of you being the ultimate promoter with the BC Boys in a commercial, just being this hype man promoter. How much has pro wrestling influenced you as an artist? A lot. Because it's it's a world where you never really know what's true. It's a world of mystery. And great skill is involved in what they're doing. And there's a story. And it's a story sometimes of people who seem to hate each other. Do they hate each other? They might be best friends. You know, it's like we don't know.

46:10But sometimes they really do hate each other. And then the matches are different when they really hate each other. But you never know when it is. So there's this, there's a sense of a, and I think it's more honest than any other form of any other sport or any other form of entertainment. See, it's funny. I say it's the only legitimate sport is pro wrestling because it's the most like the world. In the world, we don't really know what's true. Everybody has a facade. People put on a, you know, airs or a performance. A mask. Yeah. or the politician talks and we don't really know who they are. They say these things that are often written for them.

46:51We don't know. So there's this like performative aspect of the world that wrestling, that's what the world's really like. We say that the, you know, wrestling is fake. It's like the world is fake and wrestling is real. That's what it is. I wanted to go back into what you talked about with, you know, you mentioned transcendence. And I think you mentioned, you know, the universe having your back when you asked for an answer, uh, with this, you know, particular song with system of down. What's your thoughts on manifesting and manifesting something you want and alchemizing it into the world? Do you believe in manifesting?

47:36Do you believe in a, uh, you know, artists should be thinking in that way or what's your thoughts on it i believe in it a million percent it's something that i've experienced before i knew what it was so i so when i say it's like uh i feel like it has to do with the purity of the intention behind what you're doing if your intention is pure and you're doing it for the right reasons, it seems like things tend to work out. And that ends up being a manifestation mindset. But it didn't start for me that way. It just was like, I really believe in what I'm doing. I really care about it. I want it to be the best it could be for me.

48:27And I'm excited to share it. and the results have shown me that you can manifest things. It happens. But I'll say when I do it, it's never based on the outcome. Ooh, what do you mean? I'm never asking for a result. What are you asking for? I'm asking to rise to the occasion to make the best thing that I can, for the thing that I make to be great. great is a vague word. I don't know what great means. I came to realize recently what great means, but I didn't know most of my life I was aiming for great, but I didn't know what that was. And I've come to realize that great means it's a devotional, it's a devotional kind of greatness.

49:16It's a gift to the universe. It's a gift to God. Wow. If you're making a gift to God, there's no greater, you can't put more into it than that. You can't, what about the single? What about what someone's going to say? Who has anything to say if we're making a gift for God? You're putting all of your purest intention into this thing for the universe. Wow. That's where it's at. I didn't know that. I came to realize that recently. Again, my word was greatness. Greatness. That was the word of what I was shooting for. But I've come to realize what it is. Wow. You have a whole section about greatness and success in the creative act, a way of being, which I loved your explanation there.

50:09That is fascinating. So greatness for you, what I'm hearing you say, is a pure gift of yours to God. Yes. And it's a gift of yourself to God. It's like, this is the best I can do. This is my offering. This is what I have to offer. If you think of a formula for manifesting as an artist, what would that formula be? I don't think there's a formula. Is there an art to manifesting? I don't know. I think it sounds like a shortcut, and I don't think there are shortcuts. I think it's always a version of doing the work, of finding your way into what it is that the universe wants you to do, and then really dedicating yourself.

51:08How do you know what the universe wants you to do and when to do it? The right timing. Because you could be like, I have this idea for this thing. Maybe it's the right time now. Maybe it's five, 10 years away from now. How do we really tap into that knowing? I think it's situational. And I think, again, if you're tapped into the universe, it tells you. It directs you. An example, I may have three different ideas that I'm excited about. And I kind of get them all going. And then one of them just seems to take off on its own. And one of them, no matter how hard I work on it, it never seems to come together.

51:48Can't find the right collaborators, some obstacles in the way. When that happens, I feel like it's the universe saying now is not the time. Interesting. because you know i i love this and i also hear the other side of the i guess the coin where you know i don't know if you know ryan holiday which i do the obstacle is the way is his kind of stoic philosophy of like when the obstacle is there it presents itself and you also feel like this is something you want to do like you've got to kind of go through that pain and you know to overcome it. That is part of it. I'm not saying to turn away from the obstacle, but I'm saying when the obstacles become insurmountable consistently and there's another path that's going smoothly and you feel the same about both of them.

52:42Go for the effortless way. Yeah. Well, pay attention. See when is the universe giving you a push? When is the wind hitting your sails the right way? There's something to it. I would never suggest not fighting through the work. It's grueling no matter what. It's grueling no matter what. That said, sometimes it feels like now's not the time. It's like everything you throw at it gets deflected. Right. But this other thing is guiding you. Taking on its own life. Earlier you asked about what I perceive to be a shortcut. And a shortcut is how little can I get away with doing? And I think that the real question is how much more can I give to the thing I'm making?

53:44What else can I give to it? And thinking in terms of how much more can we do? Not how much less can we do? It's not about shortcuts. It's not about getting it done. It's not about a four-hour work week. I loved it. I loved it, but that's not... It's like whatever it takes for it to be all it could be,

54:11commitment and total commitment and dedicating your life to making the best things you can, whatever it is. Yeah. That's beautiful, man. Um, so do you, so you think that as artists, we should be thinking about manifesting, but not in the terms of doing less, but putting the maximum into making it great. Doing anything that's within our power. If it, it doesn't have to make sense. Nothing has to make sense. You know, it could be what I wear these purple socks. I can write a better song. Great. Doesn't matter. Don't question it. Just do whatever works, do it. Is it really art if you're making money off of it?

55:05Absolutely. It doesn't matter. It's not about the outcome. That's what I'm saying. If you don't make money or if you do make money, that has nothing to do with the art. Art is the art. And If you make something that you love, I know if I make something I love, if more people like it, that's only a good thing. Now, I wouldn't change a word of it for someone else to like it. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like I make the thing I love and then present it to the world. And then if the world likes it, great. And if more people like it than less, better. Why not? was sharing something we love, something we think is beautiful.

55:50So the more people who embrace it, but again, I would never change it for anyone else because that's not what it's about. It's not about that. With the artists you've worked with that you knew before they were global successes or their art, their music was known by many, what did you see became their biggest challenge once they became extremely successful? because a lot of artists, I would think, want their art to be liked and listened to by people. They want to make a living and more people like it. Typically, that's a good thing, typically. But sometimes we see artists who have this incredible rise of success and then seem to struggle with whatever, depression, anxiety, maybe the pressure.

56:42Can I do this again? Will I be able to have these many hits again. What is the biggest challenge you see with artists becoming successful? Probably the biggest one is nobody prepares you for success and you may have a dream of what it's like and you may think the success is going to fill some hole you have in your soul and you work your whole life for this success that's going to fill the hole. And finally, you get the success and the whole is the same. And it creates hopelessness. Wow. Because you always, you're working towards this goal that's going to fix the problem. But the goal doesn't fix the problem.

57:37I would say, I can't say never, but I would say almost never fixes the problem. What fixes the problem for people? It's something else. It's something inside themselves. It's something inside themselves. So do you think success can almost hurt someone more than before they have it, after they have it? It just depends on the person's temperament. For some people, being famous is the greatest thing, it's all they ever wanted. And for some people, they become famous and it's the worst nightmare. That's not what they wanted. They miss their privacy. They miss their anonymity. They miss being able to go and do whatever they want and not be singled out or pointed to or talked to.

58:30Or even if people are nice, like it's a different, it's different. Um, and no one teaches you how to do that. Or you want to, you know, go do something with your family and then there are photographers there and it's, it's very, uh, awkward. What, uh, what advice do you have for people that want to be famous? You know, success is one thing, but fame is another thing and they don't always happen together for someone that wants to be famous. What advice would you have for them? I don't know. I would say I would look at why that is. I would maybe consider therapy. Have you ever done therapy yourself?

59:08I've done all kinds of therapy. What has been the biggest lesson you learned through therapy for you? I learned how to express my feelings clearly. The first time I went to therapy, I didn't even know how to talk. I didn't know how I felt about anything. How old were you then? Maybe 26. So you learned how to express your feelings then. Yes. And to not only, yes, express them, but also to actually feel them in myself, to understand, not just feel like blocked off or frustrated or like what's beneath it, what's actually going on. And what is the biggest lessons that meditation or meditation practices has provided for you?

59:50It provides a quiet space where the chatter, you realize that your thoughts are not you and that left to your own devices, there'll be a lot of voices in your head just going all the time. and they're not you and they don't mean anything and they're really repetitious and they're not working in your best interest. So if your thoughts aren't you, then what are you? I suppose you are the unchanging part of yourself that's always there from probably from the time you're born until the time you die and maybe before and after.

1:00:46It's what's really inside. It's not changeable. It's what you came with. It's not the thinking mind. it's almost being the observer of the thoughts. The one who sees the thoughts. That sounds right. Yeah. Observing the thoughts. Thank you. Yeah. That's what I was hearing you say. When do you feel the most loved, Rick? I would say in general, I feel loved. It's a good feeling. I feel spiritually connected. And that gives me a great feeling of peace. Where do you think you'd be in your life if you weren't a meditator? And where do you think you'd be if you allowed yourself to play with drugs and alcohol?

1:01:49Yeah, I can't really predict. I would say meditation. Without meditation, I don't know who I would be. It's such a big part of who I am. informed so many, everything. My understanding of the world is based on learning to meditate when I was young. So I don't know who I would be without that. Do you think you would have as much internal harmony and peace and external success without meditation? No, certainly not internal peace. I don't know about success. I wanted to ask you a question about comparison. You mentioned the NBA basketball player needing to post more on social media based on what their team or the coaches, or maybe not the coaches, but maybe the general managers wanted them to do.

1:02:41With artists, I see a lot of people competing and being in comparison versus just sharing their truths in an authentic way. And sometimes on social media, people are vulnerable because it gets attention and then they're over vulnerable and then that becomes a game in itself. But in a world where everything is oversaturated seeming and there is a lot of competition for attention, how can an artist stay true to their inner voice and not be in comparison, but be willing to collaborate and also see success in others and be okay with it? Yeah, I think staying out of it, not participating in that game, that's someone else's game.

1:03:31That's someone else's game. I would suggest play your own game. I can remember having a conversation with one of the biggest artists in the world who described an album that they were going to make. And I had just seen them play in a stadium full of people screaming and crying. And it was not Paul McCartney. And the album that they were describing was one that none of those 70 ,000 people screaming and crying wanted to hear. It was clear to me. and and I remember saying that's not your hand like you play when you're playing poker it's not you can't just play any cards you play the you play your hand based on the cards you've been dealt so depending on the artist you are like um it'd be like there was a time I think when Metallica felt like, we don't really want to be a heavy metal band.

1:04:35We want to be a pop band because pop bands were what's popular. And we have reached a ceiling being a heavy metal band. That did not go well. That was a bad idea. They weren't playing their hand. They weren't embracing Metallica. And I think if you embrace your part, it's your best chance being true to yourself, Not seeing, oh, well, those people over there are getting popular doing this other thing. I don't really like it, but it's really working for them. Maybe I could try that. Recipe for disaster. So don't chase something that's not your hand. No. But it sounds like, correct me if I'm wrong, you know, the example I'm thinking of is like Lady Gaga came onto the scene doing, I guess, pop music and became very popular.

1:05:25but then said, hey, I want to do this more kind of jazzy, bluesy, like Tony Bennett thing. She was being true to herself. And that's what I want to do. And I don't care if anyone likes it. Perfect. But it's what I want to do with this season of my life. True to herself. And it may lose money. But she was not doing it because I think people will like this. Right. This is working over here, so I'm going to try to catch their heat. She was not doing that. She probably knew people wouldn't like it, only a small audience. She didn't care. Yeah, she didn't care. care that was true to herself this is what she wanted to do and she did it wow were you uh in touch with her at all during that that season or i can't remember if we talked about that yeah i'm curious but that's i'm curious if she's just said hey i'm gonna do this and this is my thing and for sure that's pretty cool yeah no i love it when an artist does something unexpected whether it works or not you know it's like it's they're being true to themselves right they get to be a better artists doing that whereas the other example is someone you know whether it's metallica or whoever is like chasing a bigger audience or something now if that's true to them that music then cool there's an audience there and go for it yeah but it's also something about staying true to yourself in terms of um if you come up making a certain kind of music and you get popular making that music, a feeling of, well, this is all anybody wants from me.

1:06:51So even though I don't care about it anymore, I have to keep doing it. That's a disaster as well. Right. That doesn't work. Who has been the most musically gifted artist that you've been able to work with? Or maybe a few people that you're just like, they were so musically like talented and gifted. It was just. there have been a lot I can say the first time I was in the studio with Carlos Santana and he started playing guitar it felt like this is coming from another planet or John Fruscianti when he plays from the guitarist in the Red Hot Chili Peppers when he plays guitar it's a transcendent experience spiritual and there's a drummer named Chris Dave who's the best drummer I've ever heard and no matter what he plays Anything he plays is the greatest thing you've ever heard.

1:07:43The simplest thing. He can make anything interesting just the way he plays it. Not the parts. It doesn't have to be complicated. It doesn't have to be, look at me. Just the touch, the feel, the tone is miraculous. Something you said before is the only goal is to be the best version of ourselves. Is there anything blocking you from becoming the best version of yourself? moving forward? I don't think so. Yeah. I wouldn't say I'm there, but I'm always striving. Always. Anything I can do to get closer, I'll do. Yeah. You're willing to learn something new. You're willing to try something on. Or change anything.

1:08:27Right. What do you think is the best habits that an artist can have that maybe you have individually, but also that you see in other artists? I would say dedication to the craft, whatever their craft is, dedicating themselves to it, taking it very seriously, and being free to play in it. Taking it seriously at the time when it warrants being taken seriously, and having fun and being free in a play way to allow the thing that's worthy of being taken seriously to appear right taking it seriously and also allow yourself to play in it as well yeah you would the play always is where it starts it starts in this playful way where nothing is serious and there are no stakes and then through that something appears and then in order to get that into condition to share there's a grueling effort yeah take that seriously and sometimes it's sometimes you do a grueling effort and then you realize oh that thing that happened the first day, that's the best version of it.

1:09:33But you don't know that until you've maybe banged your head against a wall for six months working on it. And then you realize, you know what? That first five minutes was the best. That was it. You can't know that until you go past, you know, you have to work past it to see this was the one. This is the best version. How often is it the first version is usually the best for you? I'll say the first version is often, if it's not the best, it's very instructive and holds a magic in it that is to be retained no matter what else changes. You know, a big part of it is just not screwing up what's good.

1:10:13It's not messing it up. No, there are all these stories of, you know, the demos being better than the album. It's easy to not know why something is good. You make a demo and you think, okay, now when I get the professional musicians to play it, it's going to be great. It's going to be that much better. Maybe yes, maybe no. We don't know. We never know. We never know what's going to happen when we do anything. So to stay neutral and to keep every iteration along the way and be willing to look back after you just spent months refining something to then say, you know what? It was better three months ago.

1:10:50Throw that all away. Wow. The Creative Act, A Way of Being. This is a powerful book. I think it's been on the New York Times bestseller list for 42 plus weeks in a row, I believe right now. This has been a game changer for so many different creatives, artists, and also people that don't think they're artists who have been buying this and tapping into their creativity, allowing themselves to express themselves more fully, more openly, more freely, more honestly and vulnerably. And I want to recommend this to anyone watching or listening to get a copy or two and give one to a friend. Really think about who in your life do you know has great talent, great artistry, or untapped talent that they should be expressing that more and giving that gift to God and to the universe, as you say so beautifully.

1:11:41Again, think about who in your life needs this book. There's so many great... the thing I love about it is it's, you know, it's a bigger book, but every chapter is short, you know, and for me, I like short, uh, bits of wisdom that I can just open up at any time and read a few paragraphs and I've got something great. Open it randomly and read something. Let's see what comes up. This was the, uh, this is the first thing here. I don't even have this earmarked, but I've got a lot of it earmarked. This says in the end, the sum total of, of the essence of our individual works may serve as a reflection.

1:12:15The closer we get to the true essence of each work, the sooner they will somehow at some point in time provide clues as to our own. That was the first thing that opened up for me. That's cool. It's 245. So make sure you guys check that out. But there's, I love the whole section on, uh, you've got sections on greatness. You got a success. You got about listening, you know inspiration you talk about inspiration it appears in a moment um and what what defines inspiration is the quality and quantity of the download at a speed so instantaneous it seems impossible to process inspiration is the rocket fuel powering our work it is a universal conversation we yearn to be a part of and i think that's really cool because so many of us are chasing inspiration, but a lot of times it comes to us, right?

1:13:11It comes. And it's almost like getting out of the way and allowing for it to come in. That's why I love in the docuseries that you're a part of Shangri-La. It's like you have an intentional energy of your environment. You create a space for it to come. And I think that's really cool. And a lot of people aren't, I think, thinking about their environment of spatial surroundings, their environment of people surroundings, their environment of what they consume of music or visual content or what they're reading. They're not intentional with it as much as I think they could be, which you're extremely intentional to allow for inspiration to come.

1:13:50Isn't that right? Yeah. We're all, um, all we are is made up of everything we take in. so the places we're in the people were around the the media we consume that's all we are so really curate what comes in for your highest um for your highest good yeah and in the uh the shangri la the the docuseries you know in your recording studio and in your facility it's all white. You know, there's no TVs, there's no clocks. The floor is white. The walls are white. You have this space that is kind of like this void, you know, and I think of meditation. I really try to think about being no one, no thing, nowhere, no time.

1:14:41So that inspiration can come to me as opposed to having the noise constantly distracting me or influencing me to think something. And so you create a white blank canvas for people to express, uh, and develop their art. And I think it's really beautiful. I mean, you guys paint the floors, like after someone comes in and does their work, you repaint the floor so that it's not dirty from the last artists of the past. You create a blank canvas every time an artist comes in, which is just so cool to think about. And, um, I love the intentionality behind how you allow for space to be evolved for people to draw inspiration.

1:15:21It's really, really cool. I want people to watch that docu-series called The Shangri-La, but also, again, get a copy of this book, The Creative Act, A Way of Being. I've got three final questions for you, Rick. And again, I'm so grateful for your time here and for showing up and just being an inspiration to so many people, and specifically in this interview right now. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end of our conversations. It's called the three truths. So it's a hypothetical question and scenario. Imagine you get to, uh, you know, Laird and Gabby continue to keep you fit and healthy, and you get to extend your life as long as you want to be.

1:16:00Um, but eventually it's the last day you can live as long as you want, but it's the last day for you in the future. And you get to create and learn and experience all the things you want to experience from now at 60 to till that moment. But for whatever reason, it's your last day and you have to take everything with you, everything you've created, everything you've worked on, everything you've written, everything you've spoken. We don't have access to it in this world anymore. Hypothetical scenario. But you get to leave behind three lessons. And this is all we would have to remember your information by.

1:16:35And I call it the three truths. What would be those three truths for you that you would leave behind? I think it might just be one. It might just be, be true to yourself. Know yourself as best as you can to be true to who you are and allow that person to evolve and change as the conditions change and to not be inflexible. i love that i want to acknowledge you rick for i mean putting this out there i heard you talk about being kind of like a grueling process and some challenges here there's some friction some obstacles to get it out it wasn't like this effortless thing um and i'm assuming it might have been harder than an album putting an album out there um i want to acknowledge you for sharing your gift with the universe and with all of us, sharing your greatness with so many people because you have a lifetime of wisdom and information and lessons.

1:17:43And to put it together in this way so that we can understand it is really powerful. So I acknowledge you for creating this work of art, for coming on the show and talking so openly and honestly the way you have been. I've seen you on a lot of my friends' shows as well. And for being an inspiration to so many people. Uh, people value you. They appreciate you. They respect you. And, uh, I hope you feel the love from so many people. And I would just want to acknowledge you personally for that. This question, you, you kind of answered it already, but I'm going to ask you again and see what comes up for you.

1:18:20Um, what is your definition of greatness? Greatness is what you make in a devotional act for a higher power beyond any worldly ideas of success.

1:18:53listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter.

1:19:27And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.