Stop Living for What Others Think of You | Meg Josephson

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23:05Lewis Howes:It fits right into my workflow and it keeps things moving throughout the day. Visit t-mobile.com slash home internet to check availability and get your home internet delivered today. Same day delivery for most internet eligible customers. See if it's an option during checkout. Fastest according to Oogla speed test intelligence data. Second half 2025. All rights reserved. Son's out and so is dad. this Father's Day, find what'll make his summer with Lowe's Father's Day deals. Get two free Dewalt power tools when you buy a select 5-amp hour battery kit. Plus, get a free Blackstone six-piece stainless steel griddle kit when you buy a select Blackstone griddle.

23:57Lewis Howes:Shop Lowe's Father's Day deals in-store or online. Valid through June 24th while supplies last. Selection varies by location. I'm a new parent. Yes. Six months old twins. Thank you. How can I approach parenthood to raise conscious, healthy, you know, young women into becoming their greatest self, but also being able to be resourceful and talented and skill driven and emotionally intelligent, but not please their father or their mother. or be a people pleaser, but also be a respectable human being and behave in ways that uplift society, not hurting people. Well, I think, first of all, you know more about this than I do, just by virtue of being a parent already.

24:51And also by virtue of you asking that question, you're already being a thoughtful, loving parent because you're concerned about it. I would say though, the most important skill in parenthood and in any relationship is repair. Being able to make a mistake and to go back to that moment and say, honey, I'm so sorry. I messed up. I yelled at you. That was on me. That wasn't your fault. And if you want to talk about it more, I'm here. But I just want you to know, I love you. I'm here. what ends up happening is for i think for so many of us for me a hundred percent conflict was very big very volatile and i would go to my room process it on my own and then an hour later safe to go downstairs again and my dad would say so what do you want for dinner you just sweep it under the rug no but no repair no oh never never never apologize not even oh my cat vocabulary, but there's an effect that happens when that is happening.

25:58When that happens once, it's probably going to be fine.

26:02Lewis Howes:But when that's happening every week again and again and again, and again, that is something called complex trauma, which is these micro moments of not feeling safe, not feeling loved day in and day out, day in and day out. What ends up happening for a child is we make sense of that by thinking alone in solitude, in our room, whatever, okay, I did something bad because he was upset. So I must've done something bad. And that evolves over time to, I did something bad to, I am bad. And that is that feeling of, I, I'm a bad person. Maybe I'm a bad person. Maybe I'm secretly a bad person. Maybe I'm manipulating everyone in my life into loving me.

26:44And I see this so much in my practice. It's such a secret feeling. And so repair cuts right through that. We're not saying parents won't ever mess up or won't ever yell or aren't ever dysregulated. Parents do not need to be perfect. Please don't try to be perfect. But to have the courage and the humbleness, I guess, to...

27:12Lewis Howes:Say I made a mistake. I messed up. And I'm a person and I'm so sorry. That is so healing to a child. So I would say, I would say that. Repair. Repair is the key. So would you say there's a significant link between people who have experienced some sort of trauma and then also becoming a people pleaser? Yeah. Big time. Big time. It's specifically this, what I'm speaking to, this complex trauma where if you grew up, I write about this where growing up it was like a, home was like a held breath. Like I learned my dad's moods by the sound of his footsteps on the stairs. You sound like an earthquake sometimes.

27:52A hundred percent. Like even the cadence of his breathing, I could know what mood he was in. And growing up in a home where you were on high alert, you were on edge a lot of the time, I think that's a really common scenario where people pleasing comes through because we learn, okay, what can I do? I can be good. I can be perfect. And that works sometimes. And for a child, that is very empowering is to focus on, you know, the one thing that you can do. That being said, I share a lot of different scenarios and examples of homes that kind of feed that need to please. And there are different ways that it can show up for people.

28:36But also, it's not just home. It's also people pleasing is a really big adaptive mechanism to bullying as well. It's an adaptive mechanism to living in society, whether it's your race, sex, sexuality, disability, neurodivergence, learning to be a chameleon and morph yourself to feel safe just is such a brilliant safety strategy and it can manifest in a lot of different ways.

29:04Lewis Howes:Yeah. You talk about these different roles that people tend to play, the peacekeeper, the performer, the caretaker, and the chameleon. Can you break down what each one of these looks like in daily life? Yeah. And which one were you more prominently? Yeah. I think of these not as personality types, but more they're descriptive of patterns. And so, you know, you may see yourself in all of them. I certainly do. Or you might, you know, resonate with one more than the other. Also, I just want to say there's six. Six? Do you want me to go through all of them? Yeah, what are the other? Go ahead. There's a lot.

29:40Lewis Howes:Yeah, go ahead. Tell me if it becomes too redundant. No, six. Yeah, there's the peacekeeper. Peacekeeper, performer, perfectionist, chameleon, lone wolf, and caretaker are the six. Okay, cool. Awesome. So the peacekeeper is the harmonizer in the family, is really on high alert of how others are doing, wants everyone to be happy. And really the core belief of the peacekeeper is, I can't feel safe until everything is okay and everyone likes me. And that's true of the fawn response in general, but the peacekeeper is really focused on the harmony of the environment. The perfectionist is all about finding safety through being perfect for a child that's often achieving, excelling in school, excelling in sports, whatever it may look like, because a child learns, oh, if I'm really good at those things, I get like a glimpse of joy from my parents or I get a, they're proud of me maybe for a split second.

30:44Lewis Howes:It's probably also looking good too. It's like you sit the right way, you dress the right way. You're like, whatever, mommy and daddy's perfect little boy or girl and how you look and show up. Very much. It's very much image based in that way. And it can be very lonely because does anyone know me? I can't let people see me when I'm not perfect. And that's a very lonely experience. And then we have the performer. This one is a little bit specific and that finds a lot of safety in just being on. And maybe it's being funny. Maybe it's just cracking jokes to keep everyone happy. but I think of while I was writing this I thought of just comedians growing up in really dysfunctional homes and they found safety by humor keeping everyone happy in that way also very lonely because feeling like you need to always be on and putting on a show it's tiring we're not supposed to do that all the time and then the caretaker finds value in being helpful and maybe it's because you were the oldest sibling.

31:55Maybe you had parents who were immigrants and adjusting to a new culture. Or maybe you had a sibling or a caregiver who had a disability. You had to step up. You had to take on a parental role in some way. But that can also just be because your parents just, for whatever reason, weren't able to fulfill those needs. So you stepped up to fill that role. Maybe now as an adult, you feel attracted to partners that make you feel like you're the parent because it's a familiar role to you. Interesting. So you tend to mother or parent or father your romantic partners, very common. And then chameleon loses themselves with whoever they're with.

32:38They morph themselves to match the people in the room to be liked by whoever they're with. Maybe they feel this sense of, am I fake? because I just tend to adjust to be liked by whoever I'm with. Do I know who I am? And then the lone wolf, which I kind of think of as its own little category, which is I'm not allowed to have needs, so I will just disappear. I'm not going to ask for help. I'm not going to show that I need help because my needs don't matter. And you may not think of this one as people pleasing because it's quieter, but it really is people pleasing because it's others' needs matter.

33:21But when I have needs, I need to disappear. So.

33:25Lewis Howes:Okay. Yeah. Wow. Those are the archetypes. Those are the archetypes. Yeah. The things that we tend to play out in our lives. Yes. And worth noting, when those are the roles that we've had early on in our life, that's often the role unconsciously that we're going to continue playing as adults not because we want it but because what feels familiar will feel safe and what feels unfamiliar will feel dangerous so unconsciously we play out these roles because we're like i've done this before i know how to do this i'm good at this and so when we try to break it it feels quite scary simply because we don't know how to it's unfamiliar it's unfamiliar so there's a big difference between being kind and people pleasing or fawning?

34:12Lewis Howes:Yes. How can someone tell in real time if they're genuinely being generous or quietly betraying themselves? That's such a good question. I think asking, do I mean this is a really good starting point? Do I mean what I'm about to say or do? And an emotion to look out for is resentment. When we are feeling resentful in a relationship, It's usually a sign that there's a need that isn't being met or expressed. And so when we feel resentful, we can pay attention to it. And let's be clear, sometimes that's going to be inevitable. Like people pleasing with your boss, sometimes you got to do it. You got to get a paycheck.

34:54You have to, you know, that's genuine safety seeking. But people pleasing with your best friend who would totally understand, maybe not as necessary. So it's important to discern context matters. It's not so black or white, but I think regardless, if we are people pleasing with your boss or your best friend, we can still pause and look inward. What's happening? What need of mine isn't being met? What if I could say or do anything? What would I say or do? OK, now, given the reality, what can I say or do? I would start there.

35:29Lewis Howes:Yeah. There's certain people that for whatever reason, I don't know if it's culturally, tend to say, I'm sorry after everything. Like if they're just walking through the store, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Like they didn't say something the right way. I'm sorry for not saying this or I'm sorry I'm late. Or it's just like a constant, I'm sorry. Is that a similar symptom, I guess, of people pleasing or where does that come from? Yeah, absolutely. Apologizing for, well, there's a self-blame element to that of me existing is an inconvenience. And I'm so sorry for that. It's definitely a tendency of the fawn response and that I need to show you that I'm small.

36:17Of course, there's a difference between genuine apologizing and taking accountability. But just, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. When we're doing that all the time, it actually asks a lot of the other person because the other person then needs to say, you're fine. It's okay. It's okay. No big deal. They need to make soothe your discomfort of feeling guilty. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. And so that's why I would say people pleasing isn't really pleasing many people. It's tiring for you. it's tiring for the other person because it requires the other person to give a lot of reassurance and there's a difference between validation and reassurance which i can certainly

36:59Lewis Howes:get into but what is the difference between validation and reassurance well reassurance seeking as a behavior is very common for people pleasers uh it can sound like are you mad at me do you still love me do you think i look pretty in this are we okay it's it's a lot of uh yes or no questions. And the other person might say, no, I'm not mad at you. Yes, I still love you. Yes, I think you're beautiful. And temporarily it feels like, okay, we're good then. But then it comes right back. Every day or every week. It's like, why? It comes right back. Why do people need that reassurance constantly? Because we're not getting to the root emotion beneath it, the anxiety, the insecurity, the feeling of deficiency versus seeking validation.

37:43Might say to the other person, well, we're first, we're slowing down. We're saying, I'm feeling insecure right now. Hmm. What triggered this? Okay. Let me think about this. Like what's happening here? We're looking inward first, but we're having a conversation. So that might sound like, hey, I've been feeling kind of distant from you and our relationship. And I just wanted to check in about it. I want to see if you were feeling it too. And it's a conversation. You're not asking the other person to diminish the anxiety for you. You're letting both people share their emotions. Of course, the other person might say, might give some reassurance.

38:21Oh my gosh, I had, no, I'm not mad at you at all. I'm so sorry you thought that, but it's a slowing down with the emotion. But it's really what we were talking about, being able to tolerate discomfort, being able to, you know, be with our own discomfort when that anxiety gets triggered and let it pass a little bit before acting on it.

38:42Lewis Howes:How does someone create their own self-reassurance and own self - validation without seeking it from their partner, friends, or family constantly? Yeah. And it's a balance because it's okay to need people at the same time. It's okay to want to hear nice things from the people we love. But I think it's the steps that we're taking. I think it's first pausing, put the phone down, don't analyze the texts or wonder, oh my gosh, where did I go wrong here? Allow yourself to be in some quiet. Identify what does feel soothing to you. Is it deep breaths? Is it taking a walk? Is it taking a bath? Is it cooking yourself a nice meal?

39:25Identifying what does feel regulating for your nervous system. And reflecting. What's triggered this? What's happening here? Is this a pattern? Is this a one-off thing? Spending some time with it. Maybe it's journaling out what happened or maybe it's recording a voice memo as if you were talking to someone about it. And then, yeah, of course, we can have a conversation with the person. But I think it requires some reflection for us. Yeah.

39:53Lewis Howes:What would you say is the most powerful emotion that most of us are ignoring? Shame.

40:02shame and distinguishing that from guilt as emotions I think is so important for people

40:09Lewis Howes:pleasers so you think most people are ignoring a shame that they feel I think people pleasers are ignoring resentment and anger and I think people pleasers feel a lot of shame where do you want me to go you tell me why do people pleasers feel so much shame we feel a lot of shame because there's an inherent belief that everything we do is wrong and not enough because remember the following response finds safety in doing more and so if we were to believe that we are doing more i mean sorry if we were to believe we are doing enough that would kind of feel a little scary to this part of ourselves that has learned i need to always try more and try harder.

40:55It's challenging that core belief a little bit. So shame is really important because, well, we've learned to use self-blame as a coping mechanism. And we need to always make ourselves smaller. We need to always make ourselves disappear. We have this, like I said that that sort of chronic feeling of I'm bad or I'm doing something wrong people don't like me there's just this constant critical voice that's happening for people pleasers um and I think recognizing that that voice is there but it's not always true it's rarely true our inner voice is a tape recorder it's a tape recorder of all the things we've heard growing up from society and And so to have awareness of that voice without immediately believing it is the most powerful tool.

41:49Lewis Howes:Yeah. What is one sentence someone can say to set a boundary without feeling guilty? Oh. Whether it be an email, whether it be in person, whether it be like, how can you say something to set a boundary? Yeah. To not feel resentful by pleasing and giving in. Yeah. But also without feeling guilty. Well, I'm going to give you an annoying answer. which is that you might feel guilty simply because you're doing something new. And so if people-pleasing has been our baseline, saying no will feel aggressive just because we've never said no before. You'll feel like you're a bad person. Yes. When you say no, you're going to feel like I'm a bad person.

42:31Let's define what is guilt, and then I promise I will give a direct answer. Guilt says I've done something wrong. I've done something that is out of alignment with my values and my morals And so I think knowing what guilt even is is so important because when you feel guilty, let's say Hmm, let's say you were Out with friends and you don't feel like drinking that night And so you're like, no, i'm not gonna drink and then your friends like come on have some fun You're so lame. So then you feel guilty for saying i'm not drinking Well pause are you doing something bad? Are you doing something morally wrong in this moment?

43:13Absolutely not. You are just choosing to make your own decision and your friends disagree, but you're not doing something morally wrong. What ends up happening with people pleasers, we take other people's discomfort and we absorb that as guilt, but it's not guilt. It's just hypervigilance to other people's dissatisfaction. And so I think being able to actually discern when is it, when am I doing something wrong and when is it actually just a fleeting moment of discomfort that I need to sit with?

43:51Lewis Howes:Yeah. It takes practice. It takes a lot of practice. It does. Should I answer your question? Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. I guess I can do that. I think it's super important to start. You mentioned earlier that when you first started saying no to people, it didn't go well. I thought that was really interesting. Or that like people, because people were so used to you being the yes man. It's so important to start with people that feel safe. It's so important. With anything trauma related and in trauma healing, we have to start small and safe. Otherwise, we're going to shock our nervous system. For example, if you were to set a boundary with your like.

44:33Lewis Howes:Your parents or something. Your parent that you have a very rocky relationship with, they're not going to have a good reaction. You may not be in their lives anymore. You know what I mean? It might be destructive. And so what would happen is you would set that boundary, they would have a huge reaction. And then your nervous system would be like, this is why people please. What are we doing? Go back to what I know. So it's really important to identify relationships that feel safe, like your best friend or your loving partner, or if you have a close sibling relationship. And it can even be a shared practice.

45:07You can let them in on what you're working on. I like that.

45:11Lewis Howes:Yeah. I've been working on something. I'm really trying to be more honest in my relationships because I feel like I kind of, I'm not letting people in. I'm not show, I'm not being authentic. And I end up saying yes when I don't mean it. And then I feel upset with myself. And I just want you to know that that's something I'm working on. Um, and then with the right person, they're going to be really proud of you for saying no or for expressing a need with the right person, but it's really important to start with the right person. And I think the way it context is everything. Instead of just saying to your best friend who maybe you've had some resentments because you say yes too much or whatever, and just saying, you know what, I'm going to start saying no to you when you want me to do this.

45:54Lewis Howes:You can't start with that context. It's got to be like, you know, I've really been discovering that I've been feeling this kind of frustration when I do this in life with people. And I want to be more in tune with myself in all my relationships and I love to practice this together. Like, I don't want you to say yes to me on something you don't want to do also. I love that. Like, I want you to feel like you can say no if you don't want to go out to the bar and drink with me. It goes both ways. You know, it's like, is this something you'd be open to practicing with me? Yes. Yes. So that I can improve in my life and this and that.

46:26Yeah.

46:27Lewis Howes:It's the context. It's definitely context. And I don't know about you, but in relationships that I can be really honest and the other person can honest with me, I feel the closest to those friends because I'm never wondering, are they saying something they don't mean? I'm always trusting that if they're upset, they'll tell me. And that's a big practice for people pleasers as well as to not mind read so much because we often are like, well, maybe they meant this by this or in there, they had kind of, they didn't laugh that hard at my joke. So maybe, and, and so we end up creating these scenarios that don't exist.

47:03Of course, if we've actively harmed someone, we should be the one to initiate that interaction. But allow them and trust that they will come to you if there's something to be spoken about.

47:17Lewis Howes:That's a hard one. It's hard. That's a hard one.

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49:23Lewis Howes:Now available in Canada too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash lewis for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash lewis. In your New York Times bestselling book, Are You Mad at Me?, you say on page 159 that pain travels through families until someone is ready to face it. How does trauma pass through our DNA, through our families? Is this DNA or is this more just learned behavior in the environment? It's actually both. It's actually both. It's actually passed down in our DNA through these genetic markers and through these genetic codes. And of course, it's also how we are raised is going to be unconsciously how we will raise our children if we decide to have them.

50:16Until someone becomes conscious of the patterns that have been happening and goes through the emotional labor of breaking that pattern.

50:26Lewis Howes:One person has to say, I'm going to break generational trauma. I'm going to be the one to go through hell for however long it takes to regulate my nervous system, to heal, to have conscious conversations, to have the courage to speak up and use my voice, and to pass down a new language and new environment to the people in my life. And it takes a lot of work. And it won't be perfect. And I think that is what I see a lot as well, is this pressure to, oh, well, if I'm a cycle breaker, I need to be perfect at breaking them. It's going to be messy. No. Messy. That's a high standard to hold yourself to.

51:11And it's not human. We're going to mess up. I'm sure my future kids will go to therapy for something that I did. I'm sure. And you're a therapist.

51:20Lewis Howes:Yeah. Of course. I'm a person and I'm sure that what I always like to say is I think a parent's weakness becomes a child's strength. Like there are things about my parents that I'm actively wanting to break. I want to be practice being a non-reactive parent. I want to practice taking accountability and owning up to my mistakes. And I'm sure there will be areas where I miss the mark and my future children will, you know, break that pattern. So we can't be perfect. being perfect is damaging does that mean you're never being upset you're never showing sadness that's really damaging as well so striving to be the perfect person is not it's not the goal just doing our best exactly just doing our best what's the one thing you've learned through all the research in therapy and your studies and practices that you realize that you still need work on as a person?

52:14Oh, so much. A lot. I would say my inner critic could use some softening. Really? A hundred percent. I still, I have such, I've always had very, very critical thoughts. As I've said, inner voice is a tape recorder. I picked up on that, but I think the practice that I'm working on and continue to work on is it's not about erasing that voice, but changing my relationship to it. That voice is still there because that little girl inside of me is still there. And so if I were to say, what's wrong with me? Why don't I have a softer inner dialogue? I'm really saying, what's wrong with this little girl?

52:57She shouldn't be here. And so to have acceptance that this voice is here, but to just not believe it so much. But I can get very very hard on myself i can hold myself to a very perfectionistic standard that's i know consciously is unfair um but just to give some space between that voice and myself and recognize that voice is just trying to protect me because if i'm perfect maybe i won't be criticized or judged or misunderstood it's such a self-protective voice so creating just some distance between that voice there you are again hello yeah when the wounded girl in you um is feeling criticized or overwhelmed what is she saying to you i think just like stop taking life so seriously really it's not that deep uh yeah i think zoom out a little bit uh anytime i then like i'll meditate for 10 minutes or I'll go for a walk in nature.

54:00I'm like, what was I worried about again? It's just thoughts are very all consuming when they're loud and they're very believable. And that's why the practice of awareness is everything because we, we're going to believe the fearful thoughts way more than the loving thoughts in our mind. Why is that? Because we're hardwired for safety. And so we're going to pay more attention to those thoughts because we think there's a threat of some sort. And so the loving thoughts feel very hard to believe, especially if our history is rooted in, you know, if we have a trauma history. So it's just, it's just human.

54:48just makes sense.

54:49Lewis Howes:How can we learn to have more loving thoughts and believe them versus critical thoughts and believe those? There's two types of thoughts in my mind. There's like that unconscious voice, that subconscious voice that just chatters. It's that background noise that we hear all day. And those are often our critical thoughts. It's just there versus the, there's a more conscious voice, a more intuitive voice. Do you know what I mean? Sure. Of when we're like actually consciously speaking to ourselves. If I'm like, okay, I'm hearing this voice and I'm saying to it, I'm safe. It's okay. It's everything's okay right now.

55:33I think those are two different voices. Um, so I, I really use a lot in my clinical work, um, internal family systems as an approach of viewing this...

55:45Lewis Howes:Dick Schwartz, right? Uh-huh. Viewing this voice as a part. And I talk about this in my book of this people pleaser is a part of you that has found safety through pleasing and being perfect and good. We're not trying to get rid of this voice and this part. We're trying to actually create a relationship to it so it knows you don't need to work so hard anymore. Yeah. We have Frank Anderson on here and he's, you know, kind of in partnership with Dick Schwartz or worked with him for a long time about the internal family systems. And for those who aren't aware of what this is, what is internal family systems and how does it make us feel more safe understanding that there's all these parts of us?

56:25Yes. On a broad level, it's that we are made up of a bunch of different parts that all play very important roles and functions that are all trying to keep us safe.

56:37Lewis Howes:These are like psychological parts, emotional parts. That's a good question. It's complex it's both it's all of it um it's emotional it's psychological it's biological as well but i think it's it's that these parts play a role in the system that makes up you and they're all working hard to keep you safe yeah um but what ends up happening i think is when specifically through how I view the people pleaser part in our anatomy is when we are stuck in this old way of being, this people pleaser part overcompensates and works so hard and is so exhausted because it thinks it needs to. And so the healing is as us, our true selves, the wise, grounded, regulated versions of ourselves to create a relationship with that part.

57:35Thank you so much for working so hard. I actually don't need you right now. You can sleep. I will need you again, but I don't need you in this moment. We're not erasing it, but we're creating a relationship. Yeah. Speaking of relationships, you've had a coming up will be eight years sober for you.

57:53Lewis Howes:Yes. Yeah. What is your relationship like with yourself now eight years sober versus what it was when you were drinking alcohol as a coping mechanism. Totally. It's funny. I always say I don't feel like worthy of using the word sober because I didn't consider myself to get to a point of addiction. So I almost feel like I don't deserve that word or whatever or because I don't have a distinct date. I have just like a timeframe that I stopped drinking. I'm like, am I worthy? Am I allowed to use that word? But yes, I, I, by definition, I guess I am. Yeah. Um, a lot. So you weren't, you weren't considering yourself an alcoholic before?

58:38Well, I think I just had, I hadn't been drinking long enough, I think too. Sure. But when I would drink, it would be very black or white. Like we were talking about of, I was either not drinking or I, yeah, or I was going all out even when I didn't intend to. And it's worth noting, I grew up, my dad was very much an addict with not just alcohol and my whole, like, I have very early memories of that. So that was my image of substances, even though I consciously knew I don't want to repeat that. I don't want to do that. I have this black or white tendency in me. And so a lot has changed in that I'm just, first of all, so used to not drinking at this point where I'm like, why would I want to go back to it?

59:33But I think for me, drinking was, I was so in control during the day. I struggled with eating. I struggled with overexercising. I was very perfectionistic regimented. That was just my way of coping with a lot of the unprocessed memories that I hadn't yet faced. And drinking was kind of finally I can like release and let go of control. But it was really triggering for me. Like a lot would come out. A lot of wounds would come out. All my fears, all my anxieties would just kind of pour out of me when I would drink.

1:00:14Lewis Howes:Wow. um again because i wasn't i was going hard you know like it was it wasn't just like a tasteful glass of wine with dinner it was college too which i think is also complicated it's like this context where it's fine it's fine to be doing that societally it's not even fine it's celebrated totally let's go out and party and do this or whatever and you kind of like get ripped on if you're not doing that if you're like if you're in that world so um i but i got a really bad concussion in college really yeah um and that i really feel i feel that was like a pivotal point in my spiritual process i think that was meant to happen um because it forced me to stop everything stopped I couldn't drink I had to sit there in silence in darkness and it was a it was a pretty long recovery for me really yeah um and so that was really the first point where I stopped drinking in college and then after that the drinking just tapered I never really went back to heavy drinking after that um and then yeah eventually I was just like I actually just don't even want this at all So just stopped.

1:02:04Lewis Howes:on LinkedIn. Spend$250 and get a$250 credit. Go to linkedin.com slash Lewis. Terms apply. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Summer can bring a lot of energy. The travel, the kids being out of school, the longer days, the plans, the adventure. And for some people, that feels exciting. For others, it can feel like a lot to carry. You're trying to help keep everyone happy, keep your schedule together, say yes to every invite, and still have something left for yourself. Whether you thrive in the summer or you're just trying to survive it, taking care of yourself matters. Therapy with BetterHelp, the world's largest online therapy platform, can help you understand what you need, feel more confident setting boundaries, and create a version of summer that actually feels good.

1:02:51Lewis Howes:Take just a short questionnaire to identify your needs and preferences. And BetterHelp handles the initial therapist matching work for you. And BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the U.S. You don't have to say yes to everything this summer. Find support and therapy. Sign up and get 10 % off at betterhelp.com slash greatness. That's betterhelp.com slash greatness. How does someone learn how to not use drugs and alcohol as a coping mechanism to release and relax and let loose and reveal themselves? but actually be loose and free without drugs and alcohol or substances to be able to express themselves throughout the day.

1:03:42It's funny. I think whether it's drugs, alcohol, shopping, any sort of behavior where you feel you lose control of yourself, binge eating, there are so many. And again, like with each of these, it gets clinically, I would view each of them differently and it would get more complicated.

1:04:02Lewis Howes:But there's probably a root wound that's underneath each one of these tendencies, correct? Right. In that we're finding safety through this control-based behavior, where if I'm honing in on this behavior, I don't need to feel the discomfort. I don't need to feel the anxiety. I don't need to face what is bubbling beneath the surface. um what ends up happening is we have this uncomfortable emotion rise up and so we immediately grab a drink or we scroll or we shop or we overeat whatever the the coping mechanism maybe porn whatever it might be yeah absolutely sex addiction it's it it's all to me and i think of it quite similarly, similarly, but different, of course.

1:04:52And so I think it's a layered clinical approach, but I would think of it as what during the day, how can you slowly increase that tolerance for feeling that discomfort throughout your day and feeling safe throughout the day so that the impulse control becomes less, you have more control over your impulses.

1:05:15Lewis Howes:How do you start to feel safe when you feel uncomfortable with that pain inside or that. Well, safety's slow. And I don't, I think we often think of, well, if I'm present, that means I'll feel good all the time. That's not true at all. I think presence often means feeling kind of shit. And am I allowed to say that on your show? Yeah, super bad word. I know it's like really rebellious. I think it's being with - Are you mad at me for saying that? Yeah, very. I know. It's being with what is. And sometimes being present means being with that inner critic. It means being with agitation in your body.

1:05:57Of course, it's really important to take in that discomfort in bite-sized pieces so that it feels safe to do so. But it don't always feel good.

1:06:07Lewis Howes:It doesn't always feel good. You said that we can't change our past, but we can shift our internal experience or interpretation of the past. And so what would you say then is the first step to shifting the internal feeling of being unsafe? I think it starts in the body. And for people pleasers, for perfectionists, it can get very intellectual. What should I be telling myself? What are the exact words that I should be saying to myself? And of course, self-talk is very powerful, but I think it's from the neck down. it's slowing down our bodies. It's even just elongating the exhale sends immediate safety signals to our body.

1:06:50If inhale for four, exhale for six, it's immediately telling the body, you're good, we're safe here. And again, that doesn't mean it feels good. It can feel kind of discouraging. Well, I took a deep breath. I still feel anxious, but good for you. You're noticing the anxiety that's there and you're allowing yourself to acknowledge it. That is such a huge step.

1:07:12Lewis Howes:It's big. Yeah. If you could give your younger self one gentle reminder, what would it be? Oof. How young are we talking? The time you feel like you needed that reminder the most. I would say you're doing enough. You're doing enough. I think I internalized the message early on. I just need to always be doing more and making, you know, achieving more and pleasing more and caretaking more. And you're doing enough. And it's something that's actually, I think, important to mention with that people pleaser voice is when we have accomplishments, when we get an accomplishment done as a people pleaser, it's really common to feel kind of relief instead of joy of like, I did it.

1:08:11I did it, but we're not actually that happy with ourselves because we always expected ourselves. It was always our obligation to have to do it. And so I think just that that message of enoughness can feel kind of cliche even. But it's so important because we remember we find safety in doing more. And so for just this to be enough is very powerful.

1:08:36Lewis Howes:Yeah, you are enough. As a leading psychotherapist, what is your ultimate message to all people pleasers out there? Just one? Just one message? What would be your message? I would say, which is a chapter in my book, nothing is personal, nothing is permanent, and nothing is perfect. where we can remember those three pillars. I think that's a good place to start. Great message. Yeah. Your book is called Are You Mad at Me? How to Stop Focusing on What Others Think and Start Living for You. It's got a lot of different praise and a lot of great resources and tools to help people on their journey. So if you feel like you are, some of this is resonating with you and you want some more tools, make sure to get a copy of Meg's book, Are You Mad at Me?

1:09:27Lewis Howes:Um, you're also all over social media, Meg Josephson on social media, TikTok, Instagram, sub stack, which is called peace of mind, uh, at megjosephson.com. Uh, I've got two final questions for you. This has been really inspiring. Is there anything, first off, is there anything that we've missed that you feel like you would like to share? I don't think so. Okay. Covered good ground. Yeah. Really good ground. Uh, this is called the three truths. It's a hypothetical scenario. So imagine, Meg, you get to live as long as you want, but it's your last day on this earth in the future. And you live the life of your dreams from this moment until that last day.

1:10:07Lewis Howes:But for whatever reason, on the last day, you have to take all of your work with you. So this content, your books, and anything you create, it's gone. It doesn't exist on earth. It doesn't exist on earth anymore. Hypothetical. Yeah, yeah. But on the final day, you get to leave behind three lessons, three truths that you would leave behind to the world. and this is all we would have of your content. What would be those three truths for you on that last day? Oh, well, I'm sure these truths were said by so many people that came before me that taught me those truths. So mine would just be paraphrasing what I've learned from other people.

1:10:44But a huge, just my core principle is just that everything's fleeting and impermanent, whether it's an uncomfortable sensation in the body or whether things are going really well. This is impermanent. And just to acknowledging that impermanence allows us to enjoy the good stuff and move through the challenging stuff with more ease. Second one, I would say this is something that I'm saying this because it's just something I'm working on is just opening my heart. Be open. um i think it's really easy to be close off our energy for self-preservation and protection and you know prevent being seen and just practice being open these are all things i tell myself so i guess that's what i'm imparting what i'm telling myself and then perhaps the last one would be i get another uh of course uh non-attachment and of course many people before me have have expressed this but uh i just think so much of my personal suffering a lot of our suffering comes from gripping on to our expectations of what this moment should be or what we you know think we should be doing or what we should be feeling or shouldn't be feeling and just practicing letting the moment roll off of us um knowing that it will change and that it isn't permanent exactly is a constant practice that's it my therapist says high engagement

1:12:20Lewis Howes:low attachment you know be fully engaged and like yes passionate and excited about what you want to create but not attached don't get attached to it absolutely absolutely it's everything meg i want to acknowledge you for the journey you've been on and i know you have gone through a lot growing up and you talk about it in your book about your experience with your father and different challenges you faced. And I acknowledge you for using your life to heal and to study so you can help others overcome their pain and trauma because it's a lot when a child goes through uncertainties on a daily or weekly basis.

1:13:02Lewis Howes:And the fact that you have made it your life's mission to serve others is something I really acknowledge in you. Oh, you make me cry. Thank you. So I appreciate the work you're doing. I appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you. My final question is what's your definition of greatness? I've been thinking about this knowing that you would ask it to me. I think, well, I think greatness is a, it's so individually defined and it will look different for everyone. And I think that is greatness, is knowing what does greatness mean to me? But I think for me, greatness is presence and being able to be with whatever is happening through the hard stuff, through the positive stuff.

1:13:48Experiencing it because it just means I'm alive is being able to live it. So I would say that.

1:13:55Lewis Howes:Meg, thanks for being here. Appreciate you. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

1:14:31Lewis Howes:I really love hearing feedback from you, and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

1:14:55Lewis Howes:Hey, everyone. It's me, Morgan Stewart, and I have a new podcast called The Morgan Stewart Show. Join me each week as I talk about pop culture, fashion, my personal life, and just a warning, I'm going to be giving my opinion on everything. I'll also have some really fun guests to join in on the fun. The Morgan Stewart Show is out now. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts or watch full video on YouTube. Traditional home security only alerts you after a break-in. And that's too late. SimpliSafe is changing that. Stop. This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way. We don't just alert. We stop crime before it starts.

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