The Auschwitz Survivor Who Chose Freedom | Dr. Edith Eger

27:03People told me for years, write a book, write a book. And I would say, I have nothing to say, I have nothing to say. But then Philip Zimbardo one morning calls me and says, you know, Edie, the people who survived and are famous, Our old man We need a female voice

27:32And that's my book, The Choice A Female Voice of Victor Frank

27:38Lewis Howes:Wow, that's beautiful You mentioned, I want to ask you about the fears again Writing down a list of your fears and then knocking them down What happens Internally when we start to knock these fears down and we overwork? You replace it with something else. See, when you're in a car and you have to switch gears, you know, it talks to you, the car. So what you need to do is switch gears and release the clutch. What are you holding on to? My definition of love is the ability to let go. Let go. Don't live in the past. You cannot change the past. That's one thing you cannot change is the past. I don't live in the past.

28:40I don't forget it or overcome it. that's why I call it my cherished wound because part of me was left in Auschwitz but not the better part not the bigger part

28:56Lewis Howes:how do you reclaim that part from that you go back to that place and you can do it in your office with a gestalt chair put them in that chair tie them up beat them up sure Yeah. Wow. How could you do this to me? I was only eight years old, you know, and you get it out, scream it out and beat them up. If we don't get that emotion out, then we're the ones that suffer, right? Yeah, because forgiveness has nothing to do with me forgiving you for what you did to me. I don't have any godly power at all, but I do have a power. to look at everything that happened into an opportunity, for an opportunity.

29:50And that was Auschwitz, the biggest classroom, the most important one I have gone to.

29:58Lewis Howes:Wow. So do we need to forgive the person that created the pain? Do we need to forgive ourselves? What is harder? I think we create a time when I give you myself permission. That's a very good word. Give myself permission to let go of the pain and replace it with self-love, which is self-care. which is not narcissistic. Love yourself is not narcissistic. Yeah. So give myself permission to let go of the pain from the past. Permission is a key word. And then replace it with self-love. You know, if I could meet Dr. Mangala now, I really wanted to meet him, and I found out where he was, but I never really ended up meeting him in person.

31:08He went to South America. Most of the Nazis went through the Roman Catholics, somehow helped them to go through them to go to South America.

31:29Lewis Howes:What would you have said to him? If you could have met him, what would you have said to him? I would probably tell him, I have no idea what I would have done if I would have been in your shoes. You must have felt very powerful sending my mother to the gas chamber because he asked me, is this your sister or is this your mother? I still want to cry. And now that stupidly I said it's my mother, Because I could not forgive myself that if I would have said my sister, she wouldn't have gone to the gas chamber. But then I had to recognize that I did what I could. You did the best. And I did the best I could.

32:30So forgiving yourself and not to judge yourself, you've got to really truly do the work.

32:41Lewis Howes:Yeah. That's powerful. I'm curious. Suffering is... make you stronger. How much... Don't ask for it. I don't want suffering. Please. You don't need to ask for it. It's not a must. No, no, no. But it makes you stronger. happens, recognize that it's temporary. Yes, yes. And you can survive it. So you become your own good parent. Yes. Are you a good parent to you? Now I am. Yeah. After a lot of the healing work, now I'm a very good parent to myself. I feel a lot of peace inside. But I didn't feel that for years. You say what you live. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. It's a constant journey, you know.

33:33Congratulations.

33:34Lewis Howes:Thank you. Thank you.

33:39Lewis Howes:Building a portfolio with Fidelity Basket Portfolios is kind of like making a sandwich. It's as simple as picking your stocks and ETFs, sort of like your meats and other topics, and managing it as one big, juicy investment.

33:55Lewis Howes:Now that's pretty good. Learn more at fidelity.com slash baskets. Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. Fidelity Broker Services, LLC. Member NYSC SIPC. It's smart to always have a few financial goals. And a really smart one you can set? Earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can. Get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year. Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. But a lot of your, you know, the first time I interviewed you, I was really inspired by how you shared so much wisdom about how to not take things personally and how to reinterpret when someone's saying something to you, just say, well, I actually, you're saying the opposite to yourself of like how you love yourself and how you're generous and kind.

34:51Lewis Howes:So I really appreciate that. You know, just a very simple question. Whatever you're doing now, you ask, how is it working for you? Yeah. Is it empowering you or depleting you? Mm-hmm. And I'm curious about potential. You know, the potential that each one of us has as human beings. Yes. How much of our potential is limited or blocked or shut down if we do not learn to heal the different traumatic moments of our life? can we still reach our potential if we don't face trauma, or is it going to be limited? I think we're going to be chronic victims, and every time you are a victim, you're going to find a victimizer.

35:39Or you fluctuate between victim, becoming victimizer, and it's very important to think about what you're going to say before you say it, whether it's important, whether it's necessary, and whether it's kind. If it's not kind...

36:06Lewis Howes:Is it important? Is it necessary? Is it kind? It's kind. Yeah. If it's not kind, you're just not going to say it. Don't say it. How do we... create a life where we don't become victims, where we are empowered no matter what happens. Even if there is something that occurs in life, an event that feels like we are a victim, how do we turn it so that we aren't a victim? Because I feel like being a victim is disempowering. You cannot be a victim without a victimizer. If you're a victim, you're always going to find a victimizer or you fluctuate between victims because victims are weak and victimizers are strong so part of the psyche will identify with the aggressor that's what we call a Stockholm syndrome.

37:06Lewis Howes:Is there moments in life where we should be victims or is it never a good time to be a victim? I think

37:18I never see myself that my identity would be being a victim. I have no room for that in my life. I'm not a victim. I was victimized. It's not who I am. It's what was done to me. Very different. Very different. that I'm innocent

37:50because yesterday's victims can easily become today's victimizers I'm sure you know a great deal about that tell me

38:05Lewis Howes:I don't know if you know this but I was sexually abused when I was 5 years old by a man that I didn't know a babysitter's son and he was probably 16 17 and I've talked about this many times on my show but for 25 years I was angry about it I held on to the anger the frustration you know and I wanted to get back at people and I wanted to I always felt like there was an abuse happening to me like people were abusing me in life that was kind of the wound that i didn't heal and when i started the healing journey 10 years ago i really allowed myself to let that go and forgive myself and forgive go through the rage all of it yeah i mean it was a process you cannot forgive without going through the rage i went through it yeah and um and when i thought about it i was like okay, well, maybe this child, maybe this.

39:04If you go to therapy, ask your therapist to sit on you.

39:08Lewis Howes:To sit on me? Yeah, and don't let you get up. You have to fight your way up and give it to him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But good, yeah. Get that thing. Get it out, yeah. There is a difference between revenge and forgiveness. Revenge gives you a satisfaction. Momentarily. Very momentarily, beautifully said. Forgiveness gives you freedom. So I had to go back to Auschwitz, to that lion's den, and look at the lion in her face to reclaim my innocence, to assign the shame and guilt to the perpetrator. Not on yourself. No. Yeah. No more. I'm free. Did you feel free from that moment forward or did you have to go back a few times and really let it out more?

40:18I think it's a lifelong process. Yeah. Really, I didn't have to go back to Auschwitz. No, not at all. One of the things I was asked by physicians, which was interesting, have I ever saw birds in Auschwitz?

40:40Lewis Howes:Ever saw birds? I never saw birds in Auschwitz. Why is that? I guess the smell. Birds are probably pick up the terrible smell. Wow. How long were you there for again? Do you remember? I was there from May until December. That's a long time. Yes. You know, my daughter called me from Auschwitz, and she said, I'm wearing a fur coat, I'm wearing boots, and I'm freezing. What did you do, Mom? Oh, my gosh. I said, I didn't have any boots. I didn't have any fur coat. But I had a little flimsy little something. And I did what I needed to do. How did you keep your spirit strong enough to survive that? That it's temporary.

41:37Lewis Howes:You told yourself this is temporary? I don't like it. It's inconvenient. And don't say but. And it's temporary. Because after all, it is temporary. Yeah. I don't know where we're going from here. Wow. Maybe I'm going to meet my mom. You see what I miss? That I never had a mother-daughter talk.

42:11Lewis Howes:You mean after that? Well, when you get married, you talk to your mother about sex, about money, about in-laws. You didn't have any of those conversations. Any of those conversations I didn't have. What do you wish your mom would have told you? It's just for me not to fake anything, to be my true self. You know, my mother told me that, I'm glad you have brains because you have no looks. You know that. And so I became a very erudite person. I had my own book club. I read the Interpretation of Dreams by Freud when I was 14. Very different. that nowadays children are not really as curious. I was always very curious.

43:23What's going to happen next? Where I'm going to go from here? You're very curious. and I think the curiosity helped me to survive.

43:35Lewis Howes:Wow, the curiosity. The curiosity. Well, I'm glad I'm a curious person then. I'm always asking questions and very curious. Yeah. Sometimes you're Jewish. You ask a question and you answer it with a question. How are you? How do you think I am? I like that. So something happened this weekend and you were contemplating whether you wanted to come here. Yes. And we got a message yesterday that you weren't going to come, but then you did want to come. Yes. And I'm so sorry for your loss about your sister. Thank you. From this weekend. Thank you. And I want to know why you wanted to come here after your sister's passing this weekend.

44:26to bring you my true self that I'm grieving and feeling and healing my sister is with me the spirit never dies and I hope I'll be happy in my dead bed and I'm not going to ask what the world has given me but you and I are going to probably ask how can I contribute to the world that makes us human beings getting together and see how we can empower each other with our differences you can be you and I can be I and just empower each other You do it your way, I do it my way. When we think about the perspective

45:30Lewis Howes:of what will the world give me versus what can I bring to the world and to humanity? Why do some people think what will the world give me? And what is the trap behind thinking that way versus how can I be of service to the world? Well, there are givers and takers, and hopefully I am a giver, and I will do less blaming and pushing myself for more and more and more. You know, I just do the best I can, and that's good enough. Yeah. Good enough is good enough. Have you been blaming for a while? I have been maybe rough on myself that I could do more than I'm doing. But I am forgiving myself that I give and do the best I can do.

46:38I do get up in the morning and I look at life as one day. The morning sunshine will not come back. And I'm very comfortable at 95, hoping maybe that I do what's humanly possible and then hand it over to God.

47:00Lewis Howes:Wow, that's beautiful. I've got a few more questions I want to ask you. but I wanted to ask the biggest lessons that your sister taught you because you both experienced a very tragic event for many months together. You both, you know, learned to heal and you came together and you've, you know, you've had a great experience with her. What have been the biggest lessons that she taught you? Because she was your older sister, correct? My older sister. Yeah. I was the youngest in the family. The most charming, right, in the family?

47:44I think my parents really wanted a son after two girls, and I came along, and that was not what they wanted. And I felt it. Magda was a very good survivor. She was full of jokes. We always talked about food. That's all we talked about, food. I think she stopped really living. and it's been now perhaps many many months or maybe years that she gave up her piano she gave up her piano lessons and she gave up bridge She was a bridge player. I think she played with Omar Sharif, but I cannot guarantee you. But Magda has been extremely brilliant with numbers. So what she did in school, she did your homework, but she didn't want your money.

49:22she wants you to bring her food. A roast beef sandwich, God knows, fried chicken. Fried chicken was always very good. My mother bought little chickens and it was so delicious. Or Hungarian salami. Have you been to Hungary?

49:50Lewis Howes:I haven't been. I've been to Poland and other places in Europe, but no, not Hungary. I'll have to go. Yeah. I think the Hungarians are good survivors as a rule.

50:10Lewis Howes:What's the thing you'll hold? There is a song in Hungary that the woman is best when she's beaten up. Wow. It's not very kind. Yeah, it's not kind. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, well, Hungarian women learned how to deal with men and give them compliments, even when they don't deserve it. Wow. So women are wise, not smart, but wise how to go through the man's stomach and make him the food that he likes. Like a certain roast beef that you make in Hungarian style. Or the chicken with a lot of paprika on it and garlic on it. I make a very good garlic chicken. You do right now. I make it today. Next time I'm in San Diego, I'm going to get some of your chicken.

51:16Tell me and I will... I'm there for the chicken. I'll do the...

51:21Lewis Howes:The chicken and a dance with you. Okay. Yes, a little salsa. It's in here.

51:31Lewis Howes:Building a portfolio with Fidelity Basket portfolios is kind of like making a sandwich. It's as simple as picking your stocks and ETFs, sort of like your meats and other topics, and managing it as one big juicy investment. Now that's pretty good. Learn more at fidelity.com slash baskets. Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. Fidelity Brokerage Services, LLC. Member NYSC SIPC. It's smart to always have a few financial goals. And a really smart one you can set. earning cash back on what you buy every day. And with Discover, you can. Get this. Discover automatically matches all the cash back you've earned at the end of your first year.

52:17Lewis Howes:Seriously, all of it. And we trust you to make smart decisions. After all, you listen to this show. See terms at discover.com slash credit card. What would you say is the thing you hold in your heart dearest about your sister? The thing you'll take with you? Her humor. Her humor, yeah. Her humor.

52:38She had a lot of humor, a lot of humor about men and women. I didn't have at all and I don't have that kind of sense of humor.

52:58Lewis Howes:You've got a great sense of humor. I do what? Different. Different. I have a question about your secret to living a long, healthy life. With experiencing pain, tragedy, trauma, loss, sadness, you continue to thrive in your life. See, when you were touched inappropriately,

53:27you probably would have come to me and say Edie I don't know how to tell you that because you went to Auschwitz and my answer would be I knew the enemy you didn't don't minimize it you have the right to be angry but not to hold on to it or live quiet. You got to go through the rage. Scream it out. Yeah. But don't get addicted to it. Don't do anything in excess. Drinking, smoking.

54:10Lewis Howes:Right. Raging. Raging. Rage is fear. Yeah. Fear. And the biggest fear of a child God is the fear of abandonment. That is important.

54:34Especially in midlife. There is not a crisis but a transition. You don't have your periods anymore, but you know who wants to have babies anyway? No problem. But I work with midlife issues a lot on a daily basis. And it's a new beginning. It's a new beginning. You become older and wiser, not older and sinner. So you're gonna write another book?

55:16Lewis Howes:Yeah, working on another book which has a lot of teachings about healing in the book as well, so, and overcoming that. But that's part of the vision. But I'm curious for you though, what do you feel has been one of the keys to living a long healthy life and with challenges and trying to lie to yourself not to not to try to please other people give up the need for approval of others I think that's number one if you like me fine And if you don't, that's okay. It doesn't mean I was rejected.

56:04Rejection is an English word that people make up to express a feeling when you don't get what you want. Give up the drama. No one can reject me but me.

56:21Lewis Howes:That's true. Don't say I was rejected. nobody has any power but you can reject yourself you can and that's the biggest betrayal if you do it to yourself you better have a talk with yourself find that little boy who is still crying and looking for a good loving parent yes and be a good mommy to you Eat your spinach. Do you feel like you've been a good parent to yourself over the years? I could have been better.

57:07But the two questions are important. Number one, when did your childhood end? if you're a child of an immigrant you end up taking care of your parents

57:24Lewis Howes:you never had a childhood you never had a childhood very important the second question is would you like to be married to you? yeah that's a good one you gotta reflect ask people to ask themselves what do people say usually? no no no no

57:48It's up to you. Who do you attract?

57:52Lewis Howes:That's true. That's true. Is there anything else you'd like to share today? Anything else that's opening up for you that you want to talk about?

58:04My 95th birthday party was a couple weeks ago. Wow. I was, thank you.

58:13Lewis Howes:95. Thank you. Feeling alive, 95. Feeling young. Young. Young. Energetic, passionate. That's right. Dancing. Mm-hmm. Celebrating. So the question is, how can you turn life into a constant celebration? Mm-hmm. I love that. How do you do that? Every moment is precious.

58:44never throw out a piece of bread

58:50only buy what you eat

58:55cook for yourself don't go to a restaurant so much because it has a lot of salt and a lot of sugar

59:06Lewis Howes:taste so good though cook cook cook for yourself and enjoy every moment in life that's beautiful don't procrastinate and get rid of perfectionism I love those yeah you're human you're gonna make mistakes that's fine Mm-hmm. You've got a couple of amazing books, The Choice and The Gift, which I'm a big fan of. And I know for years you said you didn't have anything to write about, but those books are incredible. I highly recommend people getting them. Oprah loved them as well and, you know, has shared them out and talked to you about those. It's really impacted a lot of people in life. So I really appreciate and acknowledge you for how you continue to thrive, how you continue to serve, and give back to so many of us in our lives.

1:00:08Lewis Howes:So I really appreciate and acknowledge you. Thank you. Dr. Ida, for your service and your wisdom, your joy. I want people to get your books. We'll have it all linked up for people, but you also have a course, which is really inspiring as well. Yes, we have a wonderful course, and I think we have now about 2 ,000 people who signed up. But I think it's very important, hopefully for me, to write a book for teenagers. Are you going to be doing that now? I would like to do that. I'd like to really see that teenagers can become ambassadors. That's beautiful. Ambassadors for peace. Teens of the future.

1:01:00And goodwill.

1:01:01Lewis Howes:Yeah. I think we need to take the children seriously and have conversations with them that is age appropriate. Yes, yes. I can't wait for that book. You'll have to let me know so we can have you back on for that book as well. Exactly, exactly. The course, I know you have a free course about forgiveness as well. Yes. So I want people to get the free course and we'll have it all linked up on your site, DrEditHegger.com. and forgiveness has a great deal to do with letting go letting go so my definition of love is the ability to let go yeah whatever you're holding on to let it go not going back and you're beginning So you're pregnant and you're gonna give birth to the you that was meant to be free.

1:02:09Freedom is everything. Freedom from the concentration camp that is in your own mind and the key is in your pocket.

1:02:21Lewis Howes:Wow. That's a part of your free course that people can get right now. Definitely. And then if they want even more you've got your advanced course unlocking your potential So I want people to get both of those. That's beautiful. Okay. I have two final questions Do you have time for two more questions? Sure. Okay. I believe I asked you this last time But I want to ask you again And it's called the three truths question So it's a hypothetical question. Truth is all subjective. Exactly exactly exactly so i want you to imagine a hypothetical scenario for whatever reason you uh have to take all of your books and conversations and courses and work with you somewhere we don't have access to your content right and all we have access to are these three truths these three lessons that you've learned in your life that you'd like to to share with the world.

1:03:22Lewis Howes:What would be those three truths that you could share? If you could only share three things, and we wouldn't have access to any other content you've created, what would be those three truths? Suffering makes me stronger. Become your own good parent to you.

1:03:45And find your little child in you who is crying.

1:03:52and asking for a good parent and you show up for that child, the little boy, the little girl. And how, anything you do, ask yourself, whether it's empowering you or deplete you.

1:04:16Lewis Howes:These are three powerful truths. Don't say, just this time, nobody's going to find out. I'm going to have this drink. Just no one. Yeah, is it empowering or depleting you? You need to know whether it's really important that you become your own good parent. Yeah, that's beautiful. And then whether you're going to act upon it or not. positive thinking has nothing to do with anything unless it's followed with a positive action that's beautiful well Dr. Edith I want to acknowledge you I appreciate you for how you continue to show up how you continue to serve how you continue to give your joy your generosity your attention, your time and your wisdom so I really acknowledge and appreciate you I'm so grateful for you and I can't wait to have some chicken from you soon.

1:05:17That's right.

1:05:18Lewis Howes:I'm going to come and get some chicken from you. We're going to have chicken together but most of all we're going to be colleagues and recognize that none of the academic knowledge really does any good unless you really have the knowledge of your life's work that you chose not to be a victim or the victimizer ever. Yeah, that's beautiful. My final question, what's your definition of greatness?

1:06:00It's to show up for life.

1:06:03Lewis Howes:There you go. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you. God bless. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

1:06:39Lewis Howes:I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

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