The Hidden Cost of Success Nobody Talks About | Rainn Wilson

21:55Rainn Wilson:Oh, I took my eye off the ball. Or, oh, I didn't go low to high. Or I got ahead of myself. You know, just keep breathing. Okay, I got this one. And then you're back. And you're ready to go. But his philosophy is... is to grieve the mistakes.

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25:05Lewis Howes:It makes a big difference. Visit t-mobile.com slash home internet to check availability today. Price guarantee exclusions like taxes and fees apply. Fastest based on Ookla speed test intelligence data. Second half of 2025. All rights reserved. Do you think you understood how to grieve when you were kind of rising into fame with the office and kind of those years with those seasons? Did you understand grief? I didn't.

25:32Rainn Wilson:I didn't understand that. And how did you process frustration, pain, anger? not very well yeah i didn't process it very well um i had a lot of uh addiction issues in my 20s and went through a drug and alcohol phase porn phase kind of anything that could kind of help me cope and help kind of medicate how discomfort and pain i used for a long period of time until i really have been, you know, in active like therapy and recovery and, and all that nonsense for a good while now. And, you know, it's so interesting because when you choose to be an actor, you're signing up for disappointment. So if you're an accountant, not much disappointment.

26:20Rainn Wilson:Every, every life comes with disappointments, but you're going to have your, you know, 27 clients or your 12 clients or whatever, and you can have a successful business for 50 years and just be a good accountant and you won't, but actor, you're constantly putting yourself out there like, Hey, I'm auditioning for this. Hey, here's the script or Hey, can we get this? Or, and then you do get to make, you know, a movie or something like that. And then it gets canceled or it bombs or, and I've been involved in plenty of those. So it's, it's been an interesting learning dance and it's took me until, Oh, I don't know, my mid late forties to kind of learn And how to live with a kind of constant disappointment and frustration.

27:04And so this lesson comes back, which is grieve the disappointment, feel disappointed, feel frustrated, be, ugh, like, you know, and then, and then, and then move on.

27:19Rainn Wilson:Like, and then how do we fix it? But you have to, you have to go through that feeling before, before you move on, I believe.

27:24Lewis Howes:What is it? I mean, what was it like not being famous and then being famous? And were you happier before or happier after?

27:36Rainn Wilson:That's so interesting. It's, um, for someone who, uh, has had, you know, um, addiction issues and alcohol issues and, um, and then kind of a messed up family situation and essentially spending most of my adult life feeling unlovable. And then you get on a TV show and then the weirdest thing happens, Lewis, all of a sudden, I'll never forget it. Like getting famous from the office, like people coming up and going, I love you. You're like, so like they're touching you and they're grabbing like, I love you. Oh, I love you. My daughter loves you. My son loves you. We love like, there's all this, but it's not really love.

28:20Rainn Wilson:They really love getting entertained by the character that I play, which is one small cog in this big machine called The Office. So that is a mind trip. I would say, um, if you were, uh, unhappy and you are wired for unhappiness and you are making life choices that kind of keep you in an unhappy mode, ungrateful mode, uncontent mode, a discontent mode. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are. You're going to be unhappy and discontent and imbalanced.

28:56Lewis Howes:Even if you're famous and have money and people want opportunities with you and you have more followers and all that stuff.

29:01Rainn Wilson:We think that that's going to solve our problems. And guess what? That kind of contentment, that kind of like true, that solidity of well-being, it can't be fixed from anything outside of yourself. So I was discontent and unhappy and a scrappy, unemployed, broke actor, you know, and trying to make my next rent. And in fact, I would say about, I don't know, nine months before I got cast on The Office, like we were so broke that I had to pay rent by putting it on my credit card. And, uh, Was this 2005, six? Yeah, four, four. That was like late 2003, early 2004. war and um uh and uh so if you're discontent you'll be happy no matter what the circumstances so then i become famous and then i have all those money and uh uh and movie opportunities and lots of doors opening for me all of a sudden for the first time in my life you know heads of movie studios are like we want to really meet with rain wilson we love his stuff and maybe there's a movie he can do like um so those doors started open but if you're in chronic discontent and feeling like i don't have enough i am not enough and i don't have enough it doesn't matter what comes at you you can all of a sudden say someone come up and say by the way you're the king of scotland uh we just found the paperwork here's the king here's your own kingdom and here's a billion dollars good luck, like you would find a way to be unhappy.

30:37Rainn Wilson:Right.

30:37Lewis Howes:So, so are you more unhappy, happier before when you were paying rent on a credit card or happier after?

30:43Rainn Wilson:I was equally unhappy. Wow. I was equally unhappy. So, um, I tell you, it was nice to pay off my student loans and it was nice to have a little money and I'm not going to lie. That's an important part of the deal is to, when you don't have to worry about when and how you're going to pay bills. And I know you've been there that's a big yeah that's nice that is a big deal um some happiness experts are kind of like oh none of that matters like no it matters yeah of course um but yeah i was i would say if you looked at me you know 2001 2003 i was pretty unhappy and dissatisfied and then i got the office and there was a big rush but if you cut cut into me in 2006 7 8 right in there nine um those were some pretty unhappy years at the same time yeah so on a scale let's call it the

31:35Lewis Howes:self-love inner peace scale yeah one to ten one being miserable and zero happiness and ten being total peace inside self-love where were you before and after i would say i was at a three

31:50Rainn Wilson:and then maybe two or four or five once i was well known and then and then it's it's been a long struggle and, and now I, you know, I'm doing much better. Yeah. Where would you say you are now? I would say it's a daily struggle and I have to do daily work, but I'm, I'm really at an eight, maybe a nine. Yeah. When do you feel the most loved and the most enough? I think in my contemplation practice, uh, my mindfulness practice, my meditation practice, I view meditation as something like when your computer is acting all funky and you have to reboot it and the apps aren't working right and the pages and then you reboot it and then all of a sudden it's moving smoothly again my meditation practice allows me that I also combine that with a prayer practice I do believe in God I believe that there is an incredible divine force out there for us to tap into.

32:56Rainn Wilson:That is the source of, of love itself. I would equate God much more to just the force of love, which is synonymous with the force of gravity than any kind of like guy or dude or deity or some old man with a beard or someone, you know, like a Marvel superhero shooting their, you know, like I'm going to give Lewis this thing and I'm going to give him this parking spot. I'm going to give her cancer. And like, um, like, so when I'm able to kind of tap into that force of love, when I'm able to, um, you know, Annie Lamont, uh, great, uh, thinker and writer humorist. Uh, she wrote a book called help.

33:40Rainn Wilson:Thanks. Wow. And those are the three prayers help. Thanks. And wow. I think it's so brilliant. I love that book so much. So simple, but when you're connecting with that great spirit, like help, like, Hey, I could really use help with this. I'm struggling with this perfectly. Okay. And thank you. Thank you for what I have. Thank you for the gratitude. And then just, wow. Like the miracle of being alive, the miracle of everything. Wow.

34:08Lewis Howes:What do you wish people knew about money, fame and success and also how to create and feel enough and happy with all three of those as well. Well, if I knew the answer to that, I would write my own bestselling book, Lewis. Do you feel like you've, so that's a constant journey for you to figure out how to manage those things and also find that peace and happiness and self-acceptance for yourself. And also I'm curious, do you feel like there are anyone in Hollywood or any celebrities with, you know, fame and money and success who have mastered this and also finding like true deep sense of I am enough.

34:52Lewis Howes:I don't need to compare myself to others and one up everyone else in Hollywood or in the success world. I have enough. I am enough. I'm becoming more, but I don't need it to feel more enough.

35:03Rainn Wilson:Yeah. Some of the most unhappy people I've met have been multimillionaires in Hollywood and, um, on both sides of the cameras, like directors, writers, actors, big stars, agents. A friend of mine told me like, if you're ever in an airport and you're just looking for the gate of, uh, people flying to LA and you didn't look up on the board, just look for the gate with the most beautiful people who also look the most miserable. It's kind of true. Wow. Yeah. There's so much to talk about to unpack around that. I mean, gosh, I think that number one, it's really important to understand for people to understand that there is a lot of struggle going on and people might really present well on social media and on talk shows and in their books and whatnot, but people are struggling and, you know, big, I'm not saying I'm a big star, but like big stars that I know that are, you know, very successful.

36:05Rainn Wilson:They really have struggles. They've struggled in interpersonal relationships and, and in doubt and self-esteem. And, um, I feel like the, the road to self-love is just a road through struggles. You know, this brings me to this Buddhist idea. and I talk a lot about this in Soul Boom. I reference Buddhism a lot because I've learned so much from studying it. But the Buddha has, as you know, the Four Noble Truths, which are kind of the foundation of Buddhist thought and the elimination of suffering. So one of the key, not the only thing the Buddha came for, but the Buddha came to help relieve suffering.

36:47Rainn Wilson:So life is suffering. That's the number one truth. Life is suffering. It's interesting because in Sanskrit, the word is actually dukkha. I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, but dukkha means dissatisfaction. It means struggle, conflict, overwhelm, light pain. It's just the pain of being alive. So I would interpret it as saying like life is about the pain of being alive. And when you know that, I find that very helpful to me. When I come back to that, I'm like, I'm struggling. I'm disappointed here. I wish this outcome had been different. Oh, I didn't get that job. And then, but when I can come back to like, oh, but that's what life's all about.

37:31Rainn Wilson:So what do I do now? Like, oh, am I clutching? Am I grasping? Am I wanting to control outcomes? And I'm, am I wanting people to like me? Am I wanting all this stuff outside of me? And I'm desperately grasping at all that stuff. Oh, that's the source of my suffering because when you're in that kind of zen mode you can be like oh life is suffering and guess what all these things didn't happen and i get to feel disappointment it's like a breath you know it's like in the tennis game it's like oh disappointment breath and then a new breath and next play and then the next exactly and then you're on you're on to the next play but you don't carry that disappointment with you but you don't stuff it down somewhere and stick it in the closet

38:15Lewis Howes:you don't acknowledge it you acknowledge it and then you move on exactly you refocus your attention.

38:19Rainn Wilson:You breathe it, you experience it, and then you move on and you heal in the doing.

38:24Lewis Howes:What do you think you, if you could have told yourself three things about what you're about to go through with the office and all the things that came with it, all the amazing things, and maybe the more amplified, challenging things that you face as well, what do you wish you could have told yourself the day before, you know, getting that role or the day before the first, you know, of time on set to be able to manage it all and love yourself deeper? Or did you just need more time to kind of...

38:55Rainn Wilson:So I'm going to get a little mystical. It might be a little mystical for your audience. I'm in. Okay. So I'm a member of the Baha 'i faith. So the son of the founder of the Baha 'i faith is a man named Abdul Baha. And his name means servant of glory. Anyways, Abdul Baha about 100 years ago, came to the United States. And a reporter wanted to interview this famous prophet and was like, hey, do Baha 'is believe in Satan? And, and Abdu 'l-Baha said, yes, we do. Satan is the insistent self. And I, I just love that. So as opposed to like a red guy with a pitchfork

39:39Lewis Howes:who's underneath the ground, under the ground,

39:41Rainn Wilson:Like whispering in your ears and causing you temptation. And he's like the forces of darkness. He's got his demon army or whatever. Like it's in here, it's in here. The insistent self, what does that mean? Well, it's the ego, you know? So, and that goes back again to Buddhist thought. It goes back to the most ancient spiritual writings in the world, the Vedas and Upanishads and the Vedantic practice and Tibetan Buddhism, where your struggle is the ego. right? And in Islam, jihad, the greater jihad is the struggle within yourself. The lesser jihad is like, if there's enemies that are attacking you, you fight those enemies.

40:20Rainn Wilson:But the jihad that everyone is fighting is that struggle within ourselves against our own ego. So this idea of struggling against, because the ego, what does the ego get? And again, ego's tough because we want a healthy self-esteem. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about that, that part of yourself that is like envious and competitive to a fault and, uh, wants to put your, to, it's a narcissistic part of yourself. Wants to put yourself above someone else. It compares yourself to others that wants to like obtain and get and try and satisfy itself like a dragon with its horde. And so I would have maybe shown myself some, some writings about the struggle with the ego.

41:08Rainn Wilson:If I'm cutting back to 2005, 2006 and those, those years, um, I had a lot of, I had a lot of ego struggles. And even though I had done a lot of thinking and meditating and reading about spiritual practices and, and, and mindfulness and whatnot, I was not able to put that in play so it just became uh life after the office became you know like a pachinko you know pachinko machine you know the little ball goes you know like that like my life and my ego became like a pachinko really you know where it's like this success and here's a bunch of money and you get this movie oh the movie bomb but oh you get a different one and this one this and all they want to do and you won this award and oh you lost the emmy to jeremy piven and oh this is it so it's all of this stuff outside of yourself, but where is that, where's that garden, um, that we can, that we can nurture and grow within ourselves.

42:06Rainn Wilson:Cause that, that garden you can take with you anywhere. Yeah.

42:10Lewis Howes:When did you feel like you actually got into that space of practicing it? You know, how many years did it take for you to finally be like, okay, you know, this, this pinball machine is going everywhere, ups and downs and success and ego and fame and losses. when you start to say, oh, this is all happening outside of me. Yeah. But let me start to nurture and tend to this garden inside of me for more peace and inner prosperity, not outer prosperity.

42:37Rainn Wilson:I'm going to be really honest with you. I know I don't look it. I'm 57 years old. Great, man. 48, 49. Okay. Is when that started. When I was really able to put into practice some of the spiritual guidance that I had been studying, some of the therapeutic and positive psychology studies that I'd been studying. And for those, and I want to say for those watching at home that might have a problem with spirituality or God or religion. And first of all, spirituality and religion are totally separate thing. Not totally separate, but they are separate things. then that's fine. Put that aside. And there's a wonderful, uh, reservoir of information that you have drawn on, on all 1400 of your episodes from the positive psychology movement.

43:30Rainn Wilson:And so positive psychology always arrives at the same data points that ancient wisdom from faith traditions arrives at, goes through a different way. But one, you can learn a great deal from following, um, uh, what, you know, great teachers, you know, like, you know, Jonathan height has a, the happiness hypothesis and so many great books on happiness and podcasts on happiness and wellbeing and Arthur Brooks and, um, David Brooks and all the Brooks. Um, there's you, those it's the same wisdom. It's just kind of packaged a little. Sure. Sure.

44:14Lewis Howes:Wow. So about eight, nine years ago is when you kind of started to tend to your inner garden. Isn't that pathetic? It's not pathetic. I should have had it at 33. Okay, Jesus. Yeah. I think, you know, I wish I got to learn these things a lot sooner as well, but it wasn't really until two years ago when I felt a sense of peace in my heart that I haven't never felt. Wow. And when I hit 38, I just turned 40. What happened there? I only felt peace when I was single. But when I was in relationships, I felt trapped and I felt a sense of not enoughness and never going to be able to live up to someone's standards and people pleasing and all these things that you mentioned as well, similar things.

44:57Lewis Howes:And I never - Sounds like a little codependence going on there too. Yeah. And it was, you know, I was afraid because my parents were trapped. And so I grew up watching a model of them not really accepting or loving one another. And I didn't know which night, if it was going to be like peaceful or chaotic. You know, every night you just didn't know how they were going to be screaming or reacting or cold shoulders. So I just didn't have a healthy model. I don't blame them. It all, it all developed me in a certain way to, to be a curious learner of this and try to like support others going through the same challenge.

45:30Lewis Howes:It's one of the reasons why I left home at 13 because I was like, get me out of here. It was just very up and down, chaotic at home. Um, my brother was also in prison for four and a half years when I was eight, 12, 12. So it was just like a lot of sadness, grief, loss, pain, uh, within the family dynamic. And I, and I know lots of families go through their own unique family dynamic of dysfunction. So this was just my own perspective. And, um, I just went after a feeling as opposed to being the feeling I went after wanting something and desiring people and then needing to make sure that it worked out and going all in on it, even when I had to change who I was to try to make them quote-unquote happy, the partners I chose were never happy with me.

46:19Lewis Howes:They didn't accept me for who I was. And I don't blame them. I chose them for a reason. I needed to learn the lessons. And it wasn't until I became fully peaceful and happy and on a healing journey of who I was and everything about my past, really grieving all the different parts of me, that's when I felt peace. It's going back to the first thing you talked about, which was grieving. I did about, I don't know, nine months of inner child healing and therapy. And, you know, I'm sorry to interrupt.

46:44Rainn Wilson:I want to please go ahead, pick it up from there. But I just want to say like, see, I think this is super important that you're, you can share with your audience, your struggle. And to say, here I am not really kind of figuring out how to be at peace in a relationship until my late thirties. I don't have it all figured out. I struggle. I think that's so great that you're willing to share that.

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48:58Lewis Howes:And this one stays noticeably cool and breathable throughout the night. And what I love is that if you are like I was and you don't really know which pillow is best for you, Coop has a sleep quiz you can take to find the perfect pillow for you. Let Coop help you show up feeling rejuvenated and ready to go. Get 20 % off your first order and try Coop risk-free with a 100 night sleep better guarantee at coop sleep goods.com slash greatness. That's C O O P sleep goods.com slash greatness. I share, I share out of here all the time about all my struggles. I kind of am like the guinea pig of breakdowns, you know, here's what I'm, how I'm suffering and struggling and what I'm, you know, working out with my health relationships, money, spirituality.

49:40Lewis Howes:So you talk about the inner child work. Did you do some therapy? Yeah. Nine years, uh, nine months. I was like, I had a screen, screensaver on my phone of my five-year-old self, you know, not from a narcissistic point of view, like, Oh, look at me as a kid, but more of like, Oh, look how sad I was. And look how much I was suffering and unsure of myself. I wasn't always asking, why am I even here? What's the point of this? And, and just getting into trouble a lot. And so having compassion for my five, six, you know, seven, eight-year-old self and putting myself in the mystical situations spiritually where I'm there having a conversation and comforting my five-year-old self as a 38-year-old adult with the wisdom and experience that I have now.

50:25Those experiences reunited me with a broken

50:30Lewis Howes:memory, a memory of mine that was broken, bruised, and hurt psychologically, emotionally, spiritually. and this allowed me to create harmony and congruency with the parts of myself that I was most ashamed of. This was also the time when I was sexually abused by a man that I didn't know, five years old. My second memory is of being sexually abused in a bathroom by a man that I didn't know. And I never grieved that, like you said, going back to grieving. I never even acknowledged it for 25 years. It wasn't until 10 years ago when I started to open up and talk about that and process it with support, that released a pressure valve within me that had been building up for 25 years, which drove me to be, to excel in athletics and business and getting results.

51:19Lewis Howes:I was like, I'm going to prove them wrong. No one's going to hurt me ever again. But by not acknowledging or grieving the pain and the sadness of the five-year-old, the nine-year-old, the 13 year old, the 27 year old, you know, and all these different breakdowns I had and always going to the next point without grieving the loss. It caused, um, many breakdowns in my life, physically, relationally, financially, when on the outside things look good, but on the inside it was a one, two or three. Wow. That's powerful. And so 10 years ago, right when I started this show was a part of that journey of healing and finding people that could share their stories so I could try to learn from them and apply some of these lessons.

52:05Lewis Howes:But two years ago specifically is when I went even deeper because I was just, I was really struggling in a previous relationship. And so I did about six months of intensive weekly therapy of healing the inner child within myself. That's great. And then doing it from the different parts of my childhood from 12 to 18 and 27, kind of marrying all those memories, creating new meaning from them into where I'm at now. That's what allowed me. There was a moment after about, I don't know, six or seven months of this therapy practice I was doing. What was it called? It was just working with a coach. Okay.

52:43Lewis Howes:Yeah. A therapist. Yeah. But it was just very intense. I was doing like seven, eight hour sessions, you know, on Saturdays. I was just like, I need to figure this out. I'll do whatever it takes. I'm sick of pain. I'm sick of the suffering. Tell me what to practice. Try, do all of whatever you want to do. I'll do it.

52:59Rainn Wilson:Okay. Let me, let me, let me tell you. Yeah. Yeah. Can I tell you a story along those same lines? People are watching. I'm probably like, when did Lewis turn into Oprah?

53:11Rainn Wilson:So when I was struggling a lot, there's a while back, I went to this therapy retreat center called PCS in Scottsdale. And I did a couple different weeks there and different kinds of sessions and different kinds of work. One of the things they have you do there, not for everyone, but they do inner child work. It's therapy 12 hours a day. You stay off site, but you're in, and it's very intense. They have you on the first day, go to the mall to the Build-A-Bear workshop and you build your inner child. Shut up. So I went and I built my inner child as a bear. I love this. And you name it. That's beautiful.

53:50Rainn Wilson:And you have conversations and you carry it with you the entire week. That is a beautiful exercise. The entire week. So it's

53:57Lewis Howes:kind of embarrassing because I was walking around with this. Yeah, I know. Here's the thing. A lot of people that are watching or listening, they've heard me talk about this stuff for a while. But if there's... I'm always trying to be a Trojan horse. You look at me, I'm this big jock-looking guy, 6 '4", former athlete, all these different things. And I try to draw... Doofus. looking, look like an IQ of 13, like farm hand kind of. My IQ was pretty low. My EQ is high, but IQ was very low. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But the goal has always been to draw people in that want success, that want greatness, that want money, all these different things, and talk about these things, but also talk about the healing modalities that allow you to feel peaceful and enough when you have the championship, when you have the money, when you have the role at the office because I was great at sports and accomplished a lot, but I'd never felt I loved myself or that I was lovable, kind of like what you talked about.

54:57Lewis Howes:Then I transitioned into making money and building a business and I built a multimillion dollar company and all these different things, but I still didn't feel lovable. So I was like, well, how do I get to this place where I can actually accept and love me? And so this process, which sounds similar, but I love the idea of having a physical representation of your inner child. That is a beautiful experience. And, and I'm assuming you had conversations and did exercises and did some weird things that left. If people were watching to be like, okay, and if you're crazy, man,

55:28Rainn Wilson:and if someone was doing it and left and left their inner child, like on the couch or even went to like, go get a cup of coffee and left it, they would, the therapist would be like, what the are you doing? You're going to leave your child there. And it was this training of like, wow, I in heart. And when I was a child, I was so vulnerable and I suffered so much trauma and pain. But guess what? I get to re-parent myself. Man, this is beautiful. I get to hold my own hand. Oh my God. And I get to see baby Rain, baby Lewis and give him the love that he didn't get when his mom took off when he's a year and a half old.

56:07Rainn Wilson:and my dysfunctional dad was stuck with this beard, big, weird looking toddler, you know? And I, I get to be part of that process. And, uh, it was, it was really powerful. This is beautiful. A lot of really intense stuff.

56:22Lewis Howes:Here's the thing. When I was 21, if I would have watched this conversation or heard this, I'd have been like, what a bunch of, you know, a bunch of wusses. Suck it up. Don't be such a baby, right? I said like, whatever. Cause I was just in more of an ego mindset. and I'd have been like, just tell me how to make money. Just tell me to be happy. Just tell me to like, just, I want to be successful. Just teach me that. Like touch with us. What are those steps? What are those skills? And, um, I hope people watching or listening, you know, specifically men, if you're watching or listening that you can just listen and hear this perspective.

56:59Lewis Howes:You don't have to listen to me, listen to you and hear this perspective of, I truly believe that the highest form of currency right now is peace. Is it, you know, because you said you can have lots of money and still be miserable and unhappy. The highest form of currency I think is peace, peace with your relationships, peace with your career choices or the business you have, peace with your health and peace with yourself. And when we don't have that, it just becomes harder. And so for me, it's figuring out how to stay in congruency and alignment with self and be in a peaceful state. It doesn't mean we're not going to experience stress and challenge and overwhelm and let down and all these things, but doing the best to stay in peace will allow us to feel better, make the people around us feel better and make better decisions in our lives.

57:54Lewis Howes:So I hope people are listening. I hope the women listening share this with their, their male friends and, and know it from two different individuals of different backgrounds, you as the career and, you know, in acting and all these different things that you've done in media, me from sports and business that it, it matters to make money. But if you're miserable and you're hurting yourself in that process, then it's just amplifying the pain that you already have. And so this is the work in my opinion. Amen. You don't have to go to build a bear and make it inner child, you know, physical representation and hold the bear around all day.

58:30Lewis Howes:But I feel like do something that works for you. Yeah. Do something that works for you. And for me, doing intensive therapy weekly for months supported me. For you, this experience, this two-week experience worked for you. And it's an ongoing journey of healing from my experience it doesn't just happen overnight and you're healed for me it's an

58:49Rainn Wilson:ongoing practice yeah yeah so yeah that's beautifully beautifully said really and so important and i love that currency of peace like if you can gain a peace in your inner garden i like to use that metaphor uh and and well-being and feel like i am enough um you know i've shared this before i actually our mutual friend justin baldoni i talked to him about this that uh when i was first starting the therapy process uh my therapist was having me say daily affirmations and gave me a list here's a list of like them and it's just you know give me a break like what were the few things just like um i'm a good father i'm worthy of love the first one on the list is i am enough wow and i picked it up and i was like i am enough nope not doing that it was so hard for me to look at or to think about saying that.

59:43Rainn Wilson:And he was like, well, that's the one that you have to say is I had to hang in on the mirror every morning. I had to get up and brush my teeth and look in the mirror and go, I am enough. And it's, do you remember the Stuart Smalley that, that, that Saturday Night Live character is like, I'm good enough. Gosh, darn it. And I forget the, Al Franken played this character, Stuart Smalley. Insert clip. But it's, it's corny. It's It's schmaltzy, but it, it really helped me, but it also helped me to see like, wow, I really don't believe that I am enough. That's the interesting thing.

1:00:18Lewis Howes:How do you, because I think when we say a false affirmation that we haven't actually believed yet, sometimes it's like, okay, we're, we're lying to ourselves when, when you don't believe it. And yet you're looking at it and you're saying it over and over again. So I love that practice, but it's like we have our emotional state has to catch up to it and actually learn how to process, grieve, heal, and actually believe it. So how did you build yourself in overcoming the insecurities or the self-doubt in order to actually believe that you were enough, not just say the affirmation every day?

1:00:55Rainn Wilson:Well, that's a really good point. And I hadn't thought about that, but I agree with you. I think it can be dangerous to kind of say a bunch of affirmations that you don't really believe, Like you're going to manifest them, but you don't have that organic, authentic kind of kernel of belief inside your gut. But I think that what it did for me is it kind of, it's kind of like in the show Kung Fu, which I reference in the book, Soul Boom is one of my favorite television shows of all time. he's like when you can snatch the pebble from my hand then you will be ready to go and that that's a runner through the show and finally Kwai Chang Kane is able to snatch the pebble from the hand and he leaves the Shaolin Monastery and goes to the old west and fights a bunch of racist cowboys anyways another another topic but it's like when you can snatch the pebble from my hand of really believing I am enough then you're ready you know then you're really ready so for me was, I would say it and I was not getting the pebble.

1:01:53I, and I recognized, oh, I don't believe

1:01:58Rainn Wilson:that I'm enough. I really don't. And I, I've got work to do. So it was helpful for me to kind of go like, it was, oh my God. I mean, it was a good, it was a good, you know, 10 years of me saying I am enough when I didn't believe it until it started through the work that I was doing to kind of believe in in the last like eight nine ten years i've i really have come to believe that i am enough well i mean there's there's there's some beauty in this um for people watching and listening

1:02:32Lewis Howes:that i think there's a lot of people that don't believe they're enough which for me my mission is to give people the the tools the inspiration the expertise the the um knowledge the science, the research from others on how they can start to believe in themselves more. I believe self-doubt is the killer of dreams. I think it holds us back from going after what we want. You know, when we doubt ourselves, we lack the courage or even worse, when we accomplish the thing and we don't feel enough, it's like, what will make me feel enough? You know, I was accomplishing in sports, you were accomplishing in acting, and you still weren't feeling enough with like the height of your career with that show, right?

1:03:14Lewis Howes:It was like, okay, why do I still not feel enough and i believe when we can overcome that insecurity and doubt that's when we can start to really step into a beautiful way of being and it's been a process and a journey for me i'm curious What do you think it was that allowed you to start to believe that you were enough after all those years of kind of saying it and practicing it and the modalities and the training? Was there one thing that were you like, okay, now I'm starting to feel it? Like, what was that letting go or skill that you learned that supported it?

1:03:49Rainn Wilson:that's a great question. And I wish I had kind of like some, some nugget, but it just, it just was, it was a shift, you know, it was a lot of work. It was like, you know, it's like you put in the work, you can, you know, use athletics as, as a metaphor, like you practice daily. You just, you practice and you work at it and you fail and you struggle and there's ups and downs and, you know, it was finding a really good therapist and doing some retreats and doing some reading and working with my wife a lot. I learned a ton from my wife. She's much better at this stuff than I am. And it wasn't kind of like an aha thing.

1:04:32When I look back on it now, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm so much more at peace now than I was.

1:04:38Rainn Wilson:And I have been for many years, but when I look back at those years...

1:04:44Lewis Howes:Well, some people might say, Rain, well, I mean, okay, now you can have peace, more peace, because you've had, you make all this money and you have this success and you've had your career come true. But, you know, I'm a struggling actor here in LA and I'm, you know, barely scraping by and I get rejected constantly. So do I have to wait that long until I can feel enough? Yes. No.

1:05:09Rainn Wilson:Wait. No, anyone, anyone can do the work. I think that, um... uh there's there's a lot to say on that and and also sorry to cut you out there do you think

1:05:21Lewis Howes:you would have been able to accomplish what you accomplished with it with by feeling you were

1:05:26Rainn Wilson:enough before so that that is an interesting conversation because for both of us we felt like we weren't enough we worked our tails off to kind of prove to the world that we're enough and we scraped our way up and built careers, right? Me, this weird looking actor guy. And if I had felt blissed out, peaceful, and just content with who I was at 24, would I have striven the way I did? Would I have struggled and clawed my way from unemployed actor in New York City to Emmy nominated television show and lots of money? Like what I have, you know, sometimes, and you see that with so many people that are really driven, there's something kind of broken inside them that goads them on.

1:06:20Rainn Wilson:So I don't, uh, but I do think that, uh, so I, I don't, I don't know. I don't, I don't know what the answer is to that. I don't know what the answer is. Interesting to reflect on though.

1:06:30Lewis Howes:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting conversation to have. You mentioned, you mentioned your wife. How long have you been married? Oh man. Might get you in trouble here.

1:06:40Rainn Wilson:Yeah. 28 years, 27 years. Yeah. What is the thing you love the most about your wife? I, um, I love so much about my wife. I can't even, I can't even begin to describe that. She has the most beautiful heart and the most beautiful sense of wonder of anyone that I've ever known. Like it can be a poem she's reading. It can be a flower that she sees. It can be, we have all these weird pets, something with our, one of our animals, the way she loves animals. Like there's this, and to watch her kind of like interact with something. And it could be a, you know, a video on Instagram of like an otter building a castle in the kitchen or something.

1:07:31Rainn Wilson:And, and, you know, but her, her, that, that heart centered delight and wonder that she has is, um, really, uh, it's really special. And I get to witness that on a multiple times a day. And I'm, and this goes to, and I'm sure you've talked a lot about it on your show. I haven't listened to all 14. And it goes to gratitude, which is one of the most powerful forces in the universe. And I'm on a gratitude text chain. So every morning I get up my group of guys and five things we're grateful for. Wake up, five things we're grateful for. So it ships that mindset from that Buddhist idea of dukkha, of dissatisfaction, to what we're grateful for.

1:08:16Rainn Wilson:So I get to say that I am grateful for my wife and I get to feel that gratitude every day. Now, could I look at all the things that she doesn't do well and that bug me and that annoy me and that we've had a history of, yeah, of course I could. And we all struggle with that in relationships, but you know, to, to lead with gratitude, um, doors open. what advice would you give to people in relation because you were you've been with her for a while before you you know were successful right what advice would you give to people in relationships um by the way she liked being with me back when i was broke a lot better than really successful in the office because i went through a couple years there i was just kind of a rage shirts yeah Yeah.

1:09:04Lewis Howes:Interesting.

1:09:05Rainn Wilson:Yeah.

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1:10:41Lewis Howes:We spend so much of our lives at home. So having quality pieces that feel good and hold up really matters. Right now, go to quince.com slash Lewis for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will. Now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash Lewis for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash Lewis. What advice would you give to couples where, you know, maybe one or both of them are starting to like get some notoriety or, you know, followers or success or their business or career is taking off and they're getting a little ego and they're, you know, having some attention from the outside world.

1:11:22Lewis Howes:what would you share your wisdom on how to set your relationship up for more harmony?

1:11:30Rainn Wilson:And this is where I think spirituality comes into play, because if we are spiritual beings having a human experience, then we are there in a coupleship to support each other's spiritual journey. So I get to, I, you know, achieve kind of fame and success from the office, and she gets to support me on my spiritual journey of going through that, the good and the bad. Interesting. Right. And then, you know, she gets, you know, she, she's an author. She publishes a book. She, she, you know, writes something new. She struggles. I support her on her journey and her successes and her highs and lows. So marriage all too often, I think can feel, um, kind of circumstantial.

1:12:23Rainn Wilson:Um, and it needs to feel, and I think there's a reason why the faith traditions, when you get married in front of God and like till death do us part, but like your, the idea that your, your souls are wedded, you know, and beyond this world, like into eternal worlds, you're going to, there's a companionship there. So it's, it's, it's that spiritual support. and that we're each going to have times when we need more support and we're able to give more. And there's a dance, there's a yin and yang kind of back and forth.

1:12:57Lewis Howes:That's beautiful. I don't know why I'm curious about this, but who is the person or persons that you respect the most in this business? The business of Hollywood, the business show business, which is kind of like a circus, I feel like. Are there a couple people, you know, and you don't have to throw anyone under the bus who you know you don't think is is doing well or whatever but is there a couple people that whether from the office or since after them that you really respect you think they're living life in a in a great way as well as having a great career they've got solid relationships you feel like they have a strong foundation emotionally uh are

1:13:37Rainn Wilson:there a couple people you really respect or you know it's as you were asking that question i was like, oh, Steve Carell. And then I was like, well, really? No, it's more of Jenna. And then I was like, well, Angela is like, and I was like, well, you know, John Krasinski does pretty. I was like, BJ does. And so I, I really have to say shout out to my office cast members, like that entire cast, I really admire and respect, um, how they live their lives in Hollywood and the choices that they make. Steve puts family first. And he is, he's a very kind of shy and reserved guy and really cherishes his privacy, but works hard on his, on his marriage and the life of his family.

1:14:29Rainn Wilson:Jenna and Angela are the same way, but I really admire the way Jenna and Angela just give joy to people. They like, they, they, they love to just spread joy and positivity in their work. And John, you know, who's really taken off as a director and an actor and all kinds of things like, again, his family first, absolutely his, his wife and daughters. And he, the way that he kind of keeps his ego in check and is able to really focus on doing some really great and lasting work. And I admire the whole Office cast. I know, I'm not trying to cop out, like, but they all have things that I admire and that I've learned from.

1:15:13Lewis Howes:That's cool. I think when we met, I think it was six years ago, actually, is what they were saying. But I think when you walked in the studio, my other studio, one of the first things you said is, you look like John Krasinski. I think you said it six years ago. So you still pretty close with a lot of that group? Is that a family that's still close? Like everyone's kind of like still in contact?

1:15:33Rainn Wilson:Yeah, we text all the time. We have text chains and talk with each other. Supporting each other, celebrating each other's wins.

1:15:38Lewis Howes:That's amazing.

1:15:39Rainn Wilson:Absolutely. That's great.

1:15:40Lewis Howes:Because I'm assuming you could be with, on a show or on a movie set for a few months and, and, and act like you're really bonding, but then everyone goes off to their next project or thing and then you kind of lose touch, right? Yeah. But you guys have, have stayed together. We have. That's amazing. We have. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. i'm really excited about this book soul boom why we need a spiritual revolution because i feel like there's a lot of sadness and suffering like we've talked about in the world and um anytime someone wants to open up about spirituality which i think is really about having a deeper relationship with self-acceptance self-love with yourself and with the universe um i think it's exciting so i'm so glad that you're you're talking about this and that this book is out.

1:16:27Lewis Howes:I'm curious, what is the spiritual lesson? Because you mentioned you were atheist for a while and you've gone through your faith journey. What was the spiritual lesson you learned as a kid that maybe you let go over, forgot, or rejected, but have now come back to accept?

1:16:43Rainn Wilson:Well, it's so funny that you mentioned that because that's how I start the book, is comparing the spiritual journey to two of my favorite television shows from the 1970s, which I experienced as a kid. And I've done a lot of reflecting back on, which is Kung Fu, like I talked about, which is Kui Chang Kane going through the rough and tumble West as a Shaolin monk. He's half Chinese. And he experiences a lot of racism and a lot of violence and aggression. And he takes his Eastern wisdom and teaches people's lessons. And he also kicks ass when he needs to. You know, with Kung Fu, there's going to be a couple of fights per episode, which everyone waited.

1:17:29Rainn Wilson:We all waited for with bated breath. And that I compare to like our personal spiritual journey. So you, Lewis, you've talked to 1400 people. You've gained this wisdom, this insight. But then you go out in the world and you have your girlfriend and your family and you're navigating the world and trying to use your wisdom, better yourself, continue. You're doing your therapy work. You're trying to make yourself a better person, increase your positive qualities, your divine qualities, your spiritual qualities, some could say of compassion and kindness and love, right? So that's that path. My other favorite TV show from the 70s was Star Trek.

1:18:07Rainn Wilson:So Star Trek, I see as also a spiritual journey, not on an individual level, but on a collective level. Because people forget that in Star Trek, The mythology is there's been a huge World War III. And out of the ashes of that terrible conflagration, humanity has succeeded and thrived and overcome its past divisions. There is, I don't want to get anyone upset, there is a one-world government. So a lot of people are like, oh, there's one-world government. Like, well, Star Trek, pretty successful, a federation, one-world government. I'm all for it. But we've overcome racism. We've overcome sexism.

1:18:55Rainn Wilson:There's no more income inequality, right? Technology has allowed us to have, what do they call it? The little things where you can make a bowl of soup or you can, the replicator and you can like get anything out of it. So they've, technology has taken us to a point where then humanity is able to seek out new life and new civilizations and spread technology and peace and connection throughout the universe and be filled with wonder and whatnot. And I don't think Gene Roddenberry intended the show to be spiritual. I think it was about the wonders of technology from the 60s and 70s. But really, humanity has matured, right?

1:19:36Rainn Wilson:And even when you get to Star Trek The Next Generation, there's no conflict anymore. and then Roddenberry insisted when they were doing Star Trek The Next Generation like humanity at this point because that was further than the original series that they not be in conflict so you don't see Picard in number one like arguing or no we should go over there no Picard you idiot we shouldn't land there we should like the humanity has like figured out that's matured beyond even conflict so this is I get into a lot of stuff in the book I get into death, consciousness, the meaning of life. I have a whole chapter on God called the Notorious G.O.D.

1:20:17Rainn Wilson:I talk about sacredness, looking for the holy in our lives, religion, the purpose of religion, you know, is religion good or bad? Why is there religion? But a lot of it towards the tail end of the book is really about this Star Trek journey. Because when a lot of people think about spirituality. They think about cultivating serenity and finding and quelling anxiety and finding beauty and some purpose and some connection, but it's here in the heart. And that's very important. And that's where you got to start. And it's really important. But we also have a spiritual journey collectively on planet earth to try and make the world a better place.

1:20:59Rainn Wilson:And for example, you think about compassion. Like that's something we can get better at is compassion, right? Feeling for other people. You know, whenever I'm at my worst, I'm not in compassion. I'm like, oh, that's screw him. Oh, that's, that's what, you know, like can be judgmental and like, oh, those idiots, why didn't they do that? And they should just do, you know, and But when I'm able to increase my compassion, say, ah, we're all in this human struggle together. Oh, those poor people. Like, imagine just how much an increase of compassion could help us as a species move forward on the planet.

1:21:48Rainn Wilson:To just maximize, like, we're talking like Jesus-like compassion or Buddha-like compassion. It could be a powerful force. In fact, I have a little scenario in there. I was like, what if humanity could invent a compassion machine? So picture like an MRI machine or something where you put electrodes on your scalp or whatever it is. I don't know what it looks like. But then you're able to connect with someone on the other side of the world. He's a goat herder in Yemen or it's someone plowing a field in Pakistan or whatever it is, someone completely different than you. And in this compassion machine, you're able to see and feel the world through their eyes and through their heart.

1:22:32Rainn Wilson:Like, imagine if we were actively every day, everyone spent half an hour in a compassion machine. And we had just a much deeper understanding of the difficulties of what it's like to be a goat herder in Yemen or a farmer in Pakistan. and uh but these are some of like the spiritual tools that lie in the world's faith traditions that can be transformative for us as a species on the planet so my five-year-old lesson these two tv shows kind of show us the way forward well that's good that's a good answer

1:23:12Lewis Howes:i've got a couple final questions for you but i want people to get the book soul boom why we need a spiritual revolution make sure you guys check it out get a couple copies for your friends as well. Do you know about the grant study out of Harvard University? 75 year study? Yeah.

1:23:25Rainn Wilson:Yes. 75 year study, 300 men, Harvard University, searching for what makes a good life. All these data points, thousands of data points over the decades. The final

1:23:41Rainn Wilson:doctor overseeing the study, Dr. George Valant, I think there's a new one now, but he was before, He says his final culmination was the only thing that really matters in life are your relationships to other people. So wherever I went in the world and I saw people succeeding at well-being, at inspiration and happiness, contentment, they're connected to other people. It's community. It's all about community.

1:24:15Lewis Howes:now i guess gavar mate talks about i'm going to paraphrase and i think it's the relationships with others but also the relationship to ourselves and making sure we have a good relationship with self it's hard to have great relationships with others if we don't have a beautiful relationship with self if we don't accept have compassion for ourselves or the parts of ourselves that we are most ashamed of or guilty or insecure about and so i think it's a two-part thing it's like having great relationships with others, but also developing a quality relationship with self. And for me, it's inspiring to see you continue to develop a beautiful relationship with yourself so that you can be of service more in these other ways that you're doing with this book and the show that you have going on.

1:25:00Lewis Howes:So I'm excited about that. Here's a question I wanted to ask you about comparison, because you mentioned this earlier in the interview about comparison. And I'm curious, how can someone learn to not compare themselves to others in an industry? You know, whether it's acting or sports or business or podcasting or books, whatever it is, did you compare yourself a lot when you were kind of becoming famous and rising up in this space? Or were you pretty focused on your own race and you weren't thinking about what everyone else was doing? And if so, how did you overcome that comparison mentality?

1:25:43Rainn Wilson:So Theodore Roosevelt said, comparison is the thief of joy. And if you are looking for joy, if you're looking for bliss, contentment, and self-acceptance, that's a good place to start. Stop comparing yourself to others because you just don't know their circumstances. You don't know your circumstances. There were a lot of people that I was incredibly envious of early on in my career doing theater in New York. Oh, it's something I've struggled with my whole life. I mean, I've really let it go now. And, you know, they had their moment in, let's say, New York theater in the 90s. Broadway or whatever it is.

1:26:24Rainn Wilson:Yeah, exactly. And then I've had my mom. We all have our moments if you have talent. And, uh, but it's, it's a really important one of like, it's, I don't know if there's any kind of miracle to it. It's just stop it. Don't do it. Don't compare yourself. It doesn't work. It doesn't help you. Envy is like, that's in every spiritual tradition, right? The envy and the, what is it? The green, uh, what did Shakespeare call envy? The green, uh, goblin or something like that. I mean, um, so yeah, that, that has been a big struggle for me. it's especially a struggle for actors because you're like because you're going into a role

1:27:03Lewis Howes:and auditioning and there's 50 other guys or whatever there's 20 guys in a room and one of

1:27:07Rainn Wilson:you gets the part like oh he did it and then you go in again and the same guy gets the thing and you're like god him you know and so uh you know like uh nick offerman is a great example like he he and i used to audition for all the same roles and then i got on the office i actually got him introduced him to the producers of The Office, and they had his picture on the wall, and they thought of him for Parks and Recreation, which was going to be a comedy spinoff. And I'm not saying I got him the role, but I opened the door. Then he had that thing, and now he's been doing so much great work in television and having a career that was time when...

1:27:51Rainn Wilson:Because we're similar actors in a lot of ways were different in a lot of ways as well. But, you know, he's, uh, and I just remember those early years of me and Gofferman being in the audition, like, oh, you again, you know, and we never had that with each other and we're, we're able to really support each other. And then he's written a bunch of books. I've written a bunch of books and that's cool. We support each other there as well, but yeah, it's, it's been a struggle.

1:28:14Lewis Howes:I guess if you want to stay miserable, compare yourself to everyone, right? You want to be miserable? Yeah. Yeah. If you,

1:28:21Rainn Wilson:If you, it's a great place to start. You know, if you want to start, like I'm going to, you're talking about like school of greatness, right? Like these action items that you can make your life better. Number one, stop comparing yourself to others. I love that. Okay. Love it. Rain. You're just as good a podcast host as Rich Roll.

1:28:42Lewis Howes:Okay. All right. For me, the thing that I've learned that helped me, because I used to, I don't know if I used to compare, but I used to compete until 10 years ago. And I'm still competitive in certain life, but it's more like towards games. It's not about, I don't know, my business. It's like, okay, I want to be the best I can be, but I'm not trying to necessarily beat others. Yeah. Because I feel like that's a scarcity business and a scarcity world where I've really shifted into collaboration as much as possible. Like, okay, here's someone, me and Rich have been friends for 11 years. And so we just support each other.

1:29:20Lewis Howes:How can I help you in succeeding and you can help me in succeeding and let's just collaborate more. And there's abundance, there's room for both.

1:29:27Rainn Wilson:I love those words, scarcity and abundance, because if you've undergone some kind of child trauma and you feel less than, you feel scarcity and you feel like I'm never going to get what I need and there's not going to be enough for me, right? It's like someone who grows up in an orphanage, even when they're adult and they can have a million dollars in the bank, they'll hide cookies under the mattress, afraid that they're going to be hungry, you know? And to just know there is enough for everyone. We can all have some success and we can kind of live our lives in abundance.

1:30:03Lewis Howes:It probably wasn't until four years ago where I stopped sleeping on people's couches, like when I would travel. Like I used to like travel and be like, who do I know in this city that I can crash on? Right. As opposed to like just paying for the hotel room because I was like, this is money I could save and, you know, not be broke again and just make sure I can stack my account or something. Maybe it was like 60 or 70 years ago, but it felt like it was more recent where it was like, okay, I can afford a hotel. I don't need to crash on someone's couch, all these different things. I wanted to acknowledge you, Rain, for this beautiful conversation, for being open, vulnerable, real, authentic, just like we talked about before we started.

1:30:41Lewis Howes:I appreciate your realness. And I always, you know, see your content from time to time. And, you know, for me, I appreciate when someone who is extremely successful in their craft can open up about the different challenges and struggles and things that they've had to overcome. So I really appreciate that about you. I want people to get the book Soul Boom, Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution, and also make sure to check out the new show that's coming out Geography of Bliss. And if they go to your Instagram and your website, they can see more updates about all this stuff and find out where to watch and how to get the book and all these different things.

1:31:21Lewis Howes:Links. Links. Handles. Everything. We'll have it all up. Hashtags. Everything. Soulboom.com. Rainn Wilson everywhere as well. We'll have it all linked up for you guys. Is there anything else we should send people to directly for you? And that's all good. That's it. Yeah. I asked you these two questions in the previous episode. You probably won't remember your answers. I have them up in front of me. So I'm going to cheat. Oh my God. And see if you match these two responses. It's been six years now. So there might be a different response to these two questions. The first one is called the three truths.

1:31:55Lewis Howes:So imagine hypothetical scenario. You get to live as long as you want, but eventually it's your last day on this earth. and you get to create, accomplish, be, do all the things you want to do from this moment until then. But for whatever reason in this hypothetical scenario, you've got to take all of your work with you. So no one has access to this book or any podcast you've ever done or any interview. It's all goes somewhere else, hypothetical. But you get to leave behind three truths that you've learned throughout your life, three lessons that you'd share with the world. What would be those three truths for you that you'd share?

1:32:34Rainn Wilson:Well, one is the one we started with, which is, you know, what's something that I know for sure. I know for sure that I'm a spiritual being, having a human experience. I would say another truth is that storytelling is one of the most powerful forces on planet earth. Humans need to storytell. We thrive when we tell stories. And by this, I mean, write poems, make movies, tell our stories, share our personal details, connect with people, talk. You can do it professionally. You can be a professional storyteller, you know, in film and television and theater or in fiction. and you can do it in your daily life.

1:33:28Rainn Wilson:But that is one of the most powerful and important forces. And I would say, too, the other thing is we need more joy and hope in the world. And one of the greatest services that we can ever give to people is to bring them joy and bring them hope. And that's where the work lies. Beautiful.

1:33:55Lewis Howes:Well, if people want to know what the previous three truths are, make sure you check out the other episode. We'll link it up so you can see.

1:34:01Rainn Wilson:You're not going to tell them?

1:34:02Lewis Howes:We can see where they differ or where they're the same. This is the final question for you. What is your definition of greatness?

1:34:12Rainn Wilson:I believe in God. So I believe that God has given me talents, certain talents and faculties. And greatness is me maximizing my God-given talents and faculties. so I learned a lot about this when I realized like oh I have the ability to make people laugh I'm kind of goofy I'm kind of weird looking a good sense of humor good timing I can use language let me use all of those skills to try and make people laugh and that worked out pretty well it worked out pretty well for me but we all have to find what that skill set is that gives us the most deepest, richest satisfaction and, uh, and apply it.

1:34:56Lewis Howes:I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple podcasts, Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

1:35:33Lewis Howes:And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

1:35:51Rainn Wilson:Hey, everyone. It's me, Morgan Stewart, and I have a new podcast called The Morgan Stewart Show. Join me each week as I talk about pop culture, fashion, my personal life, and just a warning, I'm going to be giving my opinion on everything. I'll also have some really fun guests to join in on the fun. The Morgan Stewart Show is out now. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts or watch full video on YouTube.

1:36:11Lewis Howes:Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster?

1:36:15Rainn Wilson:I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet nibbles after his untimely end.

1:36:21Lewis Howes:This is very strange. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects at Angie.com.