The Real Enemy of Performance Is Fear | Dr. Mark McLaughlin

23:28and I realized on that moment like I had the story all wrong I kept blaming myself for his bad outcome when in fact I did the best I could in a very difficult situation and I kept his family intact and I was calling my editor and I said you're never going to believe this story about Anthony because you know he's still alive and he's with his family and my editor said yeah well I think we should put the Anthony story and the, your spinal fracture story in the same chapter. And I said, well, that doesn't make any sense. One, one's really great outcome. One's a terrible outcome. Why would you do that?

24:06And he said, well, Mark, you've been telling me this whole time, like, you know, you take a person who's paralyzed and you help them walk again. And you say, you're lucky. And then you have a child who has a bad tumor and he has a bad outcome. And you say, it's your fault. That's an impossible standard to live up to. And on that day, I recognized like, I cannot judge myself on my outcomes. I got to show up to work, do what I was trained to do. And the chips fall where they may. And that was a great lesson.

24:37Lewis Howes:I mean, how do you, because if you judge yourself on your outcomes and you have a, let's call it a winning streak of like, you can't do anything wrong. And every surgery, it's like the best desirable outcome. And you're thinking, Oh, I'm, you know, I'm hot stuff and I'm so talented and look what I can do and look what I created or whatever it is. But then all of a sudden you go through maybe a challenging streak of like, oh, these undesirable outcomes, um, where the patients don't recover as fast or other challenges, but that could affect you also, if it's always based on the outcome. Correct.

25:12I'm so glad you asked this question because, you know, I remember a question, a couple of podcasts I've listened to on yours is, you know, why do high achievers still suffer from, you know, this feeling of inadequacy. And the fact of the matter is it's a disease called self-esteem. I don't want to have high self-esteem. I don't want to have low self-esteem. I want no esteem. Esteem is a roller coaster that I don't want to ride. It is. You might run out of steam. Yeah, exactly. It's it. Self-esteem is not helpful. Connecting with yourself is. What's the difference? Huge difference. Being who you are, accepting who you are as, as it is understanding that you're, you're enough.

25:58You know, you need to go through this training, whatever training, whatever profession you're in, whatever specialty you're, you're, and you're executing in train to be the best. I'm not saying don't do after action reports when things go wrong, look at how things could have gone better, but not in a fault or blame way. Just be responsible, responsible meaning the cause i am the cause of what's happening not in blame not in fault but i'm responsible and i'm going to continue to get better i love ryan holiday's quote you know mastery is a fluid continual never-ending process so just keep getting better and better and better and don't don't beat yourself up by saying i should have known better you know i mean that's just uh you know guilt masquerading as self-help it of course every every single thing in your life you should have done better in the past because you know more now than you do then.

26:49So I think it's a useless statement. So getting back to, I think the key to excellent performance and your best performance is connecting with yourself, not going into an operation saying, I'm a great surgeon. I'm going to do a great job because that doesn't last. The outcome that didn't go so well, that hand's going to reach up from the graveyard and pull you down later on. that week or that month, as opposed to saying, you know what? I'm a servant. I'm going to do whatever I need to, to this day, to be a good servant.

27:27Lewis Howes:I am big on simple daily habits that support how you show up. And this is about building a routine that helps you eat, sleep, thrive, repeat. Nature's Bounty is all about helping you thrive from your head to your heels. You can support your heart, bone, nerve, and muscle health with magnesium glycinate. And if you want a little extra heart support, there is Vital Heart Rapid Release Soft Gels made with magnesium and CoQ10. And for digestive and immune health, Probiotic 10 delivers 20 billion live probiotic cultures in a one pill per day formula, which makes it easy to stay consistent. And if you care about building habits that support your goals, this is one way to stay intentional with your health.

28:05Lewis Howes:Nature's Bounty, it's in your nature. Learn more at naturesbounty.com. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. As a loyal listener of this show, you're always challenging yourself to grow, to be better, to keep learning, and Southern New Hampshire University can help. Southern New Hampshire University offers over 200 career-focused degree programs online. Plus, Southern New Hampshire University has some of the lowest online tuition rates in the U.S., so balancing school, work, and life actually feels achievable and affordable, too.

28:38Lewis Howes:Find your degree at snhu.edu slash greatness. That's snhu.edu slash greatness. One thing about summer is that everything just feels easy. It's the season for comfortable, going to wear pieces that make getting dressed simple. That's what makes Quince such a great fit for the season. They focus on well-made essentials that you'll actually live in all summer long. And Martha and I have the European Linen Duvet Cover Set from Quince, and we love it. It's super soft, breathable, and in the summer, that makes such a difference. I can't deal with hot sheets, so I need cool sheets. And it keeps the room feeling cool, calm, and comfortable as well.

29:23Lewis Howes:And that's the same feeling you get with their summer wardrobe pieces. Quince's 100 % European Linen Pants and Shirts are breathable, easy to throw on, and the summer upgrade your rotation needs. Their tees are soft enough to live in all day, and the lightweight cotton sweaters are exactly what you want when summer nights cool down. Make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com slash lewis for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com slash lewis for free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash lewis. But it sounds like with Anthony, with the individual that didn't recover as well as you would have liked in your mind, it weighed you down for many years, 15, 16 years, I think you said, right?

30:14Lewis Howes:Yes. So when did you learn to not let the trauma of the past or an undesirable outcome of your performance of the past to not rob you of your joy or your ability to show up as your full self in the present or in the future? I mean, I think that lands squarely in the concept of acceptance. You know, healing is acceptance. You know, in the book, I talk about this concept called terrible knowledge. And terrible knowledge is a term that was described by a psychologist in Chicago by the name of Jeffrey J. and what a terrible knowledge is is um these horrific experiences that we all have in our lives that um that make us realize that wow the world can be so incredibly capricious and so harsh yeah and yet you you have to go on and live your life when i was thinking all all these times sad times about anthony i was looking around seeing people who are happy and going how can they be happy?

31:21Like this poor family, their life got turned upside down. All these people are naive. They don't realize how harsh the world is. So we're all carriers of some terrible knowledge. It's just a fact of life. I love the quote by a philosopher, life fires at you point blank. It just fires at you. And so we have these experiences. We weren't trained for them. We weren't ready for them. Nobody asked if you were prepared for them. They just happen. And even if you think about them, I talked to state troopers in New Jersey about these experiences. Even if you train for them, they don't really play out the way you expect them to.

32:05And they're never going to be desirable or good experiences where they're going to be awful experiences. So how do you carry your terrible knowledge? Well, you can let it you know, pull you by the string, the puppet strings and feel terrible, or you can turn it into useful knowledge. And the only way to turn it into useful knowledge is to share it with others in a way that it's useful for them. And what I say about that is then, then that knowledge, the knowledge, terrible knowledge of Anthony, not going back to be the normal eight year old boy that he was, that knowledge doesn't use me anymore.

32:46I use it. And that's, you put a frame around it, put it on your wall and you say, that was a time I experienced the sadness. You may be going through another experience, questioning yourself, holding yourself to an impossible standard. Maybe my story will give you a different perspective and you realize that it is what it is and it's not what it's not. That's acceptance.

33:11Lewis Howes:And it sounds like the more you reflect on it and put self-blame or anger, resentment, frustration, questions around it, it's only going to hurt you emotionally and mentally instead of transforming that wisdom into how can I serve? How can I improve? And you hear this with widows or people have been through divorce or other challenges like that or lost someone close to them. It seems devastating for a period of time until they meet someone else who's been through a similar experience and they can share that information and kind of create community and connection and support through how did you get over this and how did I overcome this?

33:51Lewis Howes:And it's when you use it to serve another person, that's when it's really helpful, I think. Of course. And you mentioned You have to express it. Self-expression is extremely healing. If I hadn't shared my story of Anthony with his parents and with my editor, the worst case of my career wouldn't have turned out to be the best case of my career. Absolutely. I wouldn't trade taking care of Anthony for anything now because I shared it. And when I shared it, I got different perspectives from other people. And that changed my worldview. That's why I love about transformation. Transformation happens when you see something from a different perspective and you're transformed.

34:34The world's exactly the same, but you are totally different.

34:39Lewis Howes:You've been inside a thousand brains through surgery and operation. What has being a neurosurgeon working on a thousand brains, but also studying the body and human dynamics taught you about thoughts, feelings, and actions? I think it all stems from language. I think that we underestimate how powerful our language is and our choice of words. So I used to think I would worry about something bad happening in operation. And I changed that word to prudent. I want to be prudent. I want to know where this vessel is and what happens if there's a tear in it and how I'm going to repair it. Am I lucky or grateful?

35:25I say to the West Point cadets, I say, some people, you'd say, I'm lucky to be here. I would say that denigrates everything you did to get here. Okay? Yes, there's some luck involved. We were born in the genetic lottery to live in the United States, be born in the United States. But it takes a lot to get into West Point. And I think a better word be grateful. Grateful. How about, you know, is something hard or challenging? Nobody likes to do something hard, but challenging? I love doing challenging things. So I think that our words, our language, not only reveals what we're thinking, it creates our reality.

36:05And we see that. I mean, look at Muhammad Ali talking about affirmations and how affirmations repeated over and over become beliefs and beliefs become action and become reality. So I think that our brain has neuroplasticity. It has the ability to rewire itself. And unfortunately, we're all steeped in a culture that has some things wrong about it. All the things we learned as kids aren't helpful to us. You know, I talk about in this another book I'm working on with Joe DeSena, Why We Quit. You know, one of the things our parents used to say is if you start something, you got to finish it. Well, that's not great advice.

36:47Like not everything you start, you should finish. There's plenty of things you should stop immediately. So I think that we get steeped in a culture that talks about, you know, you want to have high self-esteem. You want to go into this, you know, event as I'm the best and nobody's going to beat me. no, I want to go into the event as I'm me and I am going to be the best me I can possibly be. And I'm in a competition where a competition, if you really look at the Latin root of competition, it is to bring out the best in each other. It's not about winning or losing. It's a non-zero-sum concept. Competere means to bring out the best in each other.

37:28So you're competing with someone else who loves what they do and you're bringing the best out in each other. So it's a, it's a part, partly language, language affects our thoughts. And again, like I said, thoughts, um, your, your, your brain is a thought generator, continuously generating thoughts. It's like, uh, you know, the, the ticker tape on the old, uh, Times Square newsreel, but not all of those thoughts are real and not all the sauce are facts. Some of them are. Some of them are extremely valuable. Some of them are just garbage and you need to get rid of them. So it's slowing it down. I think slowing it down so that we really have a menu of choices when we're challenged.

38:13We want to go with a menu of choices. I say like as a doctor, I hit the reflex hammer in a knee jerk. We don't want our brains to be like that when we're challenged by something. We want to have a menu of options to choose and then choose the one that's most fitting and serves the most people.

38:30Lewis Howes:As a neurosurgeon that's done over a thousand brain surgeries, what is the greatest skill that you've developed to master your own mind? Focus. It truly is focusing on what is the most important matter at hand. I had one terrible Christmas morning where I took care of a young boy who was hit by a car and um and he we lost him on the table and it was just it's just still to this day i'm very i'm sad about it um and i thought like what can i do like in and i call these all is lost moments and in in our life which we all have where we we have something objectively that's terrible and something that's subjectively that's terrible and i thought what can i do i can go and deliver this news to the family as the best, in the best possible way that I can, in the best setting with the right people around them, with their clergy, with nurses, in the right area, delivered the right way.

39:39And that's the only thing I can do today to move up a little bit on the subjective scale of what do I do? And by doing that, that's how you live your life it's a constant challenge you sometimes we're in flow sometimes we're in something i call calm before the storm where something good happens to us but there's also something subjectively not good about it we get a job promotion but our new boss is toxic okay i call that the calm before the storm all is lost that's where you know you get a diagnosis of cancer and you have to stop your job and focus on your health and then there's the birthing a new skillset where you lose your job, but you get an opportunity to write the book you always wanted to write.

40:22And we're constantly in this circle of flow and all the way around. And that's the heroic journey of life. So that's really how I would say what I've learned from operations is focusing on where you are and what's the next step to serve what your goal in your life is. I learned very early that I'm a servant. And so when I have an awful experience, I say, what can I do to make the world a little bit of a better place?

40:53Lewis Howes:Yeah. How much of your studies did you study the mind versus studying the matter inside of the brain? Wow. Nobody's ever asked me that question. Very little of the didactic training that you get the neurosurgery is of the mind. Because it's not neuroscience, right? It's neurosurgery, right? It's different. Neuroscience would be more of the study of the mind. Is that correct? Exactly. Yeah. Like our thoughts and... Exactly. But as a reader and as a philosopher, I very much enjoy studying the science of the mind. And one of my idols is Ian McGilchrist. Ian McGilchrist is an amazing author and he wrote a book called The Matter With Things.

41:34And he wrote another book, which is fantastic, called The Master and His Emissary. And he talks about the right and hemisphere differences and how the left hemisphere wants to apprehend things in the world and the right hemisphere wants to comprehend things in the world. And it really is like, I think to live a full life, you need to understand, you need both of that. You need to apprehend some things and you need to comprehend things.

41:58Lewis Howes:Yes. How much of the brain influences the mind versus the mind influencing the brain? The brain has machinery to, um, to do, I think whatever the mind asks it to really. Yes. Uh, so the brain has a machinery to develop habits. Okay. The brain has a machinery to, uh, experience emotions. The brain has a machinery to sense danger in ways you don't even know. Like you can smell danger actually. Most people don't realize that, but there's a smell of danger when the pheromones of a nefarious character who's walking down the street near you, there is something there that we're not even aware of. Your brain creates that mechanism for you to feel it.

42:49Lewis Howes:Exactly. You smell it and then it triggers like fear, danger, something's off. Exactly. And now you interpret it through feeling. Yes. And what sends a signal through your immune system, nervous system? What is this? Well, your limbic system, which is your amygdala and your hippocampus and the areas of your brain, which are your alarm system. Sometimes that like goes to your stomach or like makes you like clenched in the chest or like gets other feelings and sensations, right? Yes. There's a whole neuroadrenergic or chemical storm that happens in your body that gets you ready for fight, flight, or freeze.

43:22Now we have to understand that many times that's not helpful in terms of when we're in the boardroom or when we're being challenged by somebody. But somebody says, even if people say like, well, fear is good if like a bear is chasing you. And my answer is no, fear is not good. You got to remember like if it's brown lay down, if it's black fight back, you've got to be thinking. The more fear you have, the less you're going to think. You need to focus more. Exactly. So I think that the brain has the machinery for the mind to do really whatever it wants. And I think that we're just starting to scratch the surface on the capabilities of the mind.

44:01And we're seeing, we used to think the brain doesn't really grow as we get older and we lose cells, but the number of connections can increase and increase and increase based upon what we're doing, what we're thinking. Really? Yes. And even learning new skills creates new proteins within the brain and the way the neurotransmitters. So there clearly is the mind's ability to kind of guide the brain's growth. There's definitely like some hard wiring there, but the mind can generate brain growth. Have you ever studied your own brain?

44:34Lewis Howes:I haven't. Have you ever scanned your own brain or like - I've never, never. That's interesting. I wonder if like there's a documentation of a brain surgeon who's like scanned it every five years and seen like their own development. I wonder what that'd be like, but. That's a great question. But you know, interestingly, Einstein's brain was small, smaller than average. Really? Yes. Yeah. Then how was he so smart? He probably just had amazing connections. Huh. He's probably, well, he's always constantly learning too. So it doesn't have to be the bigger size for you to be smarter. it just needs to be the amount of usage you use.

45:08Lewis Howes:Is that what it is? Yeah. And connections and the connection. So we talked about there's 90 billion neurons in your brain, but there's a hundred trillion connections and you can increase those. What's the difference between a neuron and a connection in the brain? Oh, so a neuron is basically like a cell that fires impulses and they communicate to the other cell. So those connections are the things that can increase. Wow. So say it again, 90 billion neurons. neurons and a hundred trillion connections. Oh my gosh. So the brain, you know, we probably have a 1 % knowledge of what the brain actually is.

45:45Lewis Howes:I'm assuming there's probably so much information about the brain that we don't know. I'm assuming unless correct me if I'm wrong. Um, with all the, all those neurons and connections, it just seems like you could study the brain forever and still not understand it fully. It's the most complex organ in the universe. And I get to operate on it and operate on the place where fear lives. And that's why I like to dismantle it. Has there ever been a time where you worked on a brain in surgery where you're just like, you know, I'm following every protocol. I'm following everything they've taught me from school and all my knowledge from the last 25 years of operations.

46:27Lewis Howes:But this just seems like I'm not sure what to do, if this is going to work or not. And has instinct taken over or what, you know, just like, well, this is the next step that would make sense taken over or has anything like that happened for you? Yes, actually. Um, I had a transformational moment, um, um, about maybe four years into my career where I was operating on a gentleman who presented to the hospital with some confusion and some sleepiness. And the scan that we got showed that he had a small cyst in the center of his brain that was clogging the fluid pathways. So I took him to the operating room and I got the microscope in and I've got my, these things are like retractors.

47:15They're like basically metallic tongue depressors that are separating the brain tissue to get down to where this cyst is and i bring the microscope in and i come down i'm coming right down where this cyst is and there's no cyst no way there's no cyst come on and on the scan the scan you see the cyst but when you open it there's no cyst there's no cyst i take a step back am i operating on the right patient oh no am i operating on the right side oh no and you don't want to like just dig around inside the brain no that's not good that's frowned upon oh my gosh no so uh i took a step back i looked at the scan could this system disappear no the scan was done two days ago um we're we're on we're with the we're operating on the right patient we're operating on the right side of the head um okay so i i call one of my senior partners i say can you come in and help me he says i i can't i'm not available no so you're like uh i'm not 20 years in i'm four years in still it's like yeah so i um i said all right we're gonna take this slow and actually it's funny i shared this with sanjay gupta and he said he does this a lot uh i said i i took the retractor blades out i took a step back and said all right we're gonna go very slowly here This is Ed who has a cyst in his brain.

48:41This is his scalp. This is his skull. This is the covering of the brain, the dura. This is the cortex. Okay, I'm going to put the blades in again. I put the blades in. Okay, I'm retracting the blades. I put the open up to the area. I come down a little bit more. And just in the upper left-hand field on the microscope, I saw this little wisp of whiteness. Oh, there it is. There it is. So I angled up a little bit more. I came up and what had happened was the cyst was like a cherry on a stem and it had moved away from where it was supposed to be. And it was smaller than my brain had thought it was.

49:17I looked at the scan and my brain thought it was a certain size, but it was actually smaller than that. Second, I saw it, a few expletives. And then I said, I got it. 30 minutes later, I took it out and it was gone and I was closed. and the thing about that day was i got back into my car and i thought wow like the surgeon today is very different than the surgeon who came in in the morning i didn't think i could get myself out of trouble i knew i could another transformation another experience where the world was the same neurosurgery was the same everything was the same but me i was different wow and so yes and And does that still happen sometimes?

50:03It can happen sometimes. And that's where I sort of go through my IRISE protocol of identify that there's a black swan happening, reject your first impulse because it's almost always self-preservation, inventory, other operatives, other things that you can do, stabilize, and then reevaluate. And so that's my sort of process that I go through when I experience a black swan. Wow.

50:27Lewis Howes:So when you're, when you're opening the skull and then going through the brain matter with metal tongs, essentially, you're kind of, you're piercing through all these neurons and connectors, correct? Yes. Like you're essentially cutting through or pushing through these neuron and correctors in the brain. And if you have to do that once, how does that affect the brain in general? Like going in and then coming out, does it like, can you? the person wake up and be fine or is it like there's a healing process the brain after that or how does that work so early days we would go through areas of the brain that we knew were more dormant or not really what we call eloquent areas of the brain or you wouldn't see a deficit when you cut through now we're getting better and better at parting these pathways and finding ways of kind of just easing through and gentle gently kind of teasing them way almost like you you take a hanging lines of a curtain and you pass them open so you can look out.

51:29We're trying, we're working more and more on these pathway sparing approaches to get down to where we need to get to. Really? Yeah. So we're getting better and better, but still there is, I mean, surgery is traumatic to the tissue that we go through. So when you see a surgery, you'll see that there is some trauma to the, to the area and we're just as gentle as we can be to get there, but you have to get the job done.

51:55Lewis Howes:You know those moments when you're ordering everything to your house? From groceries, gear, random things you didn't even realize you needed until the last minute? It just makes life a little easier. And now you can add internet to that list. Get same-day delivery for T-Mobile 5G home internet powered by DoorDash. No store visits, no waiting around for a technician. It shows up, you plug it in, and you're online in about 15 minutes with one cord. T-Mobile has the fastest 5G home internet. For me, working from home on the podcast, that simplicity matters a lot. I'm on video calls, uploading episodes, researching guests, and sending emails.

52:36Lewis Howes:And when everything just works and I don't have to think about it, I stay focused on what actually matters. It fits right into my workflow and it keeps things moving throughout the day. Visit t-mobile.com slash home internet to check availability and get your home internet delivered today. Same day delivery for most internet eligible customers. See if it's an option during checkout. Fastest according to Ookla speed test intelligence data, second half 2025. All rights reserved. So you've always wanted to have a backyard oasis. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that.

53:18Lewis Howes:With Empower, you can start making the most of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard? To have some fun with our money, like treating yourself to something special or spontaneously doing something extra for a loved one. So use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 20 million customers today at empower.com. Not an empower client paid or sponsored. So when someone goes through something like removing a cyst that is causing serious problems in them, what is the outcome, the general outcome of like a normal size cyst in the middle of the brain somewhere?

54:01Lewis Howes:Is it, you're going to see improvements, like you could have a full recovery. Is it just a minor recovery? What does the outcome typically look like if the job is done according to plan? Almost all of those people will have 100 % recovery. Really? Yes, exactly. If it's a benign cyst and it can be completely removed, yeah, the majority of people will make 100 % recovery. Wow. So what can someone do to optimize their brain with their thoughts and their actions? Is there a way to prevent trauma in the brain through how we think, act, and feel? I'll start with we can stop insulting our brains. Okay.

54:47There are many ways that we insult our brains. Alcohol, tobacco, not taking our blood pressure medicines, not having good oral hygiene, keeping a healthy exercise regimen to keep blood flowing, diet. Those are all insults to our nervous system. So also wearing a helmet when we're skiing, wearing a helmet when we're bicycle riding, avoiding sports that damage the brain, head strikes in sports, all of those things will dramatically improve brain health. So those are actions that people can take. What are some other healthy things they can do? Well, certainly exercise is great. The exercise gives bone strength, gives muscle mass, gives blood flow to the brain.

55:39Clearly, it gets us stimulated, helps us learn. Exercise helps you learn and remember what you study. So those are all actions that can be done. As far as thoughts go, I think it's really curating your thoughts and curating your language to, um, to move you to where you want to go and identify, uh, thoughts that, uh, and habits that hinder us from getting where we want to go. So I used to have this one habit after I would, if I got called in for an emergency craniotomy in the middle of the night, I'd walk out and there'd be the vending machine on the way out. And I would always be starving and be like two o 'clock, three o 'clock in the morning.

56:21And I would get myself two bags of Cheetos, the extra large bag and it tasted so good in the car. And I'm like, you know, you did a good job. You went in and go have the Cheetos. And like, and then I finally just said like, you know, you feel like crap when you wake up in the morning cause you're tired and then you feel more like crap because you're eating two bags of Cheetos and you're putting some weight on, like, just don't do that. Get a glass of water, get a cup of water and get in your car and go home and go to bed. So, so there are, you know, breaking habits, knowing that you're capable of weakening habits and then breaking them.

56:55I love that Epictetus quote, you know, for habits must first be weakened before they can be destroyed. And then as far as thoughts to give it, have a healthy brain. I think that you talked about judgmental, being judgmental of yourself. One of the things I found, especially with Anthony, I was being judgmental of myself. I was saying I wasn't good enough. I was saying I should have picked something up sooner. I should have operated more slickly. I could have retracted on his brain loss. Whatever, whatever caused him to have his bad outcome must have been my fault. When I became less judgmental of myself, 16 years later, I became less judgmental of others.

57:33And I became a much more effective leader because I, I just, I eliminated now I'm not, I haven't eliminated all judgmental from this. When somebody cuts me off on the highway, I'm still want to judgment is important. Judgment is good. You know, knowing not to cross the street during rush hour, that's judgment. That's important. But judgmentalness, when you have an assessment of somebody where your affinity, your respect, your admiration for them diminishes, that's not healthy for you and that's not healthy for your brain.

58:08Lewis Howes:Really? What is that when you're judgmental of someone else? How does that affect you and your brain? Well, it reflects that you are judgmental of yourself too. And that's going to interfere with your performance. Wow. Yeah. Because judgmental is what would other people think? What would other people say? That's what judgment is. Yeah. So it's going to get in the way of your performance. You want to be a better performer, eliminate judgmentalness as much as you can. What if someone in your life or in your work or wherever around your sphere of influence is doing things out of alignment, out of integrity, illegal, harmful, acting in a way that is just not good?

58:52Lewis Howes:How can you take action without being judgmental when there's a lot to judge? And you gave me a gift. You gave me your favorite quotes. Albert Einstein that says, the world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything. So how do we make sure we're taking action and having the courage to say what this person is doing is they're a bully, they're doing something illegal, harmful, wrong, hurtful, without judging them, but making sure you don't watch without doing anything. Well, I'm certainly not advocating, uh, not taking action when you see something going wrong, but I think giving them the benefit of the doubt and, and understanding and telling yourself like they're, they're doing the best they can.

59:40They're doing this for some reason. Nobody intentionally does wrong for some reason they think it's right. And so to intervene and to show them what, what your perspective of what is going wrong and how it's going wrong, not in a way of criticism, but in a way of, Hey, let me show you what's really the right way to do it. And I would lead you to the Marcus Aurelius quote below it. And this, what if someone despises me? Well, let them despise me. I will still be kind and gentle to them and show them where they've done wrong. not in a way that's condescending, not in a way to look good, but in a way to say, hey, we're all part of the same universe here.

1:00:23And let me explain to you where this is coming from. And people still have to be accountable for their actions if they're doing something, harming someone. But there's no need for judgmentalness for it.

1:00:38Lewis Howes:Yeah. One of the things we've talked about a few different times is fear. in your book, you talk about this as well. You map fear into four types using something you call the fear framework. Can you break down what those four quadrants are and how we can understand it so someone can know how to overcome fear as well? Sure. So one of the things we're steeped in in this universe is that our current experience is less desirable than our future experience. We're all on a path of going from presently less desirable to future more desirable. And along on that path, what happens is events happen in our lives.

1:01:16And I call those events fears, P-H-E-R-E-S. And what that means is these are events that come in and they're unexpected. So I give an example of I'm a medical student and I want to become a doctor. And along the way, something drops into my life. a teacher becomes very critical of what I'm doing. And I immediately see this person as an obstacle to my attainment of my final medical degree and graduation, or I have a stroke of good luck. And this event is a tool for me to get to where I am. So we're looking at all these events that come into our lives, either as obstacles or tools. When they come in, they generate this experience of, oh my gosh, am I going to be able to succeed in this?

1:02:04And so we need to dissect that event out because many times that event can happen and it can really impede our performance. It can cause us to have what I call in the book, a fear freak out where you're like, oh my gosh, what am I going to do here? What am I, what am I, I can't, I don't see the cyst. What am I going to do? Everybody's going to think I'm a bad surgeon. What am I going to do? What is the patient going to say? What is the family going to say? What is the hospital going to say? So we're immediately, this drops into our life. Okay. I've, I've, I've gone to an operation and now I've, the thing I was looking for is not here.

1:02:35Okay. That's my fear event that's dropped in. Okay. I need to dissect this. All right. So what I say is we dissect it by what are the objective components of it and what are the subjective components of it? And you can literally put it on an X, Y axis, like a a Cartesian or Descartes formula. Okay. So on the X axis is the material objective. Is it objectively positive? Is it objectively negative on the Y axis? It's subjective subjective. Is it materially good for towards what my goal is in life? Is it materially bad for what I'm doing and what I want to be in my life? And the X axis is kind of like your left brain.

1:03:15It's the, It's the acquisition and the y-axis is kind of like your right brain. It's the subjective comprehend. So when we have an event that drops in our life, we have to ask ourselves, is it a tool or an obstacle? Is it positive and negative, subjectively and objectively? Okay, I got a raise. That monetarily is good. Okay, my boss is a real problem. I don't think I can work here. That's subjectively negative. That puts me in the bottom quadrant of the Descartes XY. Okay, that's the calm before the storm. something's going to happen. Okay. Or I talk about an experience when I had a person that had this facial pain and they came in and it was one of the first times I did the entire operation myself during my training where we had to make an incision behind their ear, drill a hole about the size of a 50 cent piece, retract the brain and come down to the nerve that causes the pain and move a blood vessel away from the nerve and put some padding between it.

1:04:13It's called the microvascular decompression and it relieves the pain. It cures them. And in my training, I did the whole operation myself with my teacher just watching. And it was a flow experience because objectively I was materially having my boss see me, knowing that I was competent and subjectively it was getting me towards my goal. That's the flow quadrant. So flow and then below that is the calm before the storm. And then if something is objectively negative and subjectively negative. Then you're in the negative, negative quadrant of the big hearts. And that's the all is lost situation. And then birthing a new skillset is when objectively on the X axis, you, you, you had something that's monetarily or acquisitionally bad, like you lose your job.

1:05:00So you're not getting paid, but you have free time to create. And that's subjectually positive. And we're constantly going through this quadrant system in our lives. Um, it's the heroic journey that Joseph Campbell talks about. And ideally we're getting better and better at getting out of these things because if you learn how to dissect them and break them down, that's the first step towards dismantling fear. And when we dismantle fear, what happens? Love shows up. Some people say courage shows up. I say love shows up. If you ask a congressional medal of honor winner, why they ran up the hill to that bunker under machine gun fire to kill that guy that was firing the gun.

1:05:39He doesn't say, because I believe in freedom. He says, because he was killing my friends. That's why they do it. That's love. It's an act of love. So that's what I believe. I believe if we want to perform at our best, we dismantle fear, love shows up and we're at our best.

1:05:58Lewis Howes:And what do you think is the biggest mistake or the most common fear mistake you see in high performers? the disease of self-esteem oh um i think that if if you really talk about elite performers that day in and day out deliver what they need to they don't have esteem they have no esteem not high esteem not low esteem no esteem how does someone learn to navigate self-esteem and self-identity? Because you want to have some sort of positive self-identity that you are enough that you believe you're capable of being in the right rooms to perform, but not having this esteem, I guess, being too high.

1:06:45Lewis Howes:What's the difference between self-esteem and self-identity in your mind? Self-esteem is judgmentalness. You're either above somebody or you're below somebody. Self-identity is, you know, that's when we lose our pretend masks that we all wear and we say, this is me. I love that Brian Adams song, this is me, here I am, you know, in Spirit, the movie. I play that song when I lift weights. Here I am, this is me. When we say this is me, we're at our best. Yeah.

1:07:23Lewis Howes:This podcast is supported by Ring. Know your home is safe when you're away this summer. With Ring, it's protected. And you know those moments when you're out of town for a few days and part of your mind is still back at your house? For me, it's the little things. Did a package show up that I missed? Is everything good by the front door? And what's happening outside of my house in general? That's what I love about Ring. When I'm traveling, I can check in right from the Ring app. Battery doorbell helps you keep track of deliveries at the door so your packages are there for you when you get back.

1:07:54Lewis Howes:And Outdoor Cam Plus lets you check in on the yard and zoom in to catch every detail with clear retinal 2K video. And with Ring Alarm, you can know if unexpected motion is detected and arm your security system from anywhere right from the Ring app. Subscription required. Travel without worries this summer, knowing your home is safe. With Ring, it's protected. Shop cameras, doorbells, and more right now at ring.com. You know those moments when the right person joins a team and everything just clicks a little more? I've seen that firsthand. Not because one person does everything, but because they bring the right skills at the right time.

1:08:32Lewis Howes:It makes communication easier, the workflow smoother, and the whole team stronger. When workplace chaos hits and the right hire becomes urgent, this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Your post gets a visibility boost so it's seen by candidates who actually match what you're looking for. Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all your boxes with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Listeners of this show will get a$75 sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. How do we build our self-identity then, rather than think about building self-esteem?

1:09:17How do we accept ourselves if we're broke, broken, no relationship, no skills,

1:09:24Lewis Howes:made a lot of mistakes in our lives? How do we learn to accept and believe in ourselves if we've just been through struggle and loss and not really on a winning streak? That's a challenging question. I love the book, Paolo Coelho's The Alchemist. Great book. And the kernel of truth in that book, the main lesson is you need to find your personal legend and you need to follow it with all your heart. And when you do, the world will conspire for your success. Things that you would have never imagined happen, happen to you. So to that person that you're talking about, I would say, sounds like probably you've got some habits that need to be looked at and dismantled.

1:10:17You may have some poor coping strategies. Really sit down with a piece of paper, I would say, and write down who you are and who you're not. or who you don't want to be, and then live it. Start living it one moment at a time. I have a big cardboard thing in the back door of my office, and it's all the things I am and all the things I don't want to be. Helpful, bully, useful, arrogant. And I recognize that all those things that are not desirable, some are some small part of my personality. And I guess, I don't know if I can ever totally eliminate them, but I, it's not what I want to be. So I would focus on choosing the other things.

1:11:12Lewis Howes:Exactly. And, um, one step at a time. Um, it's not like turning a speedboat. It's like turning a steam liner. You know, you gotta, you gotta go slowly, slowly here on the school of greatness. We've talked about one of the biggest things that holds people back is the fear of other people's opinions. It's one of the reasons why people never act on their dreams or they never start their book or they never ask the person out. It's because they're afraid of what other people are going to think about them. So with the fear of other people's opinions being one of the biggest fears that most people have, what has 25 years of brain surgery taught you about letting go of the opinions of others when there's so much at stake?

1:11:53Well, my answer was, if you want to get rid of worrying about other people's opinions, get rid of your own opinions. Another Epictetus quote, what somebody else thinks of me is none of my business. So I think that as we become less judgmental of others, as we let go of our opinions of others, we let go of our opinions of ourselves. I think that's the path to greatness. It's challenging. I haven't mastered it. I'm a, hopefully an advanced student and imperfect practitioner, but I think that's the key to greatness.

1:12:32Lewis Howes:Yeah. Most people think that skills are built through repetition, but I've heard you talk about skills being built through pressure. What's the difference and why does it matter? Well, I think skills need to be learned from deliberate repetition and, um, pressure. I've learned a lot even since I've written this book. I would probably say that pressure is, again, something that we need to eliminate from our lives because pressure is what other people think. Pressure is what other people would say. I will rewrite this book. I'm working on another one now called Why We Quit, but I've learned even from this book that pressure is probably something that's not going to be the most productive thing.

1:13:22Having simulations of what needs to be done, I think is helpful. So if you're going to do a debate, going to the room where the debate is going to be and imagining the people there, all that I think is very helpful. In terms of teaching somebody a skill, if you can replicate the environment, And we see, it was interesting when we work out in the Princeton University wrestling room, sometimes the coach will have the crowd playing really loud to have the wrestlers experience what it's like to be a big crowd. Rehearsing what could happen. Exactly. I think I would say rehearsing deliberately and multiple times is very helpful.

1:14:03But thinking about pressure, probably not helpful in getting better.

1:14:06Lewis Howes:As a brain surgeon, do you feel pressure or do you feel something else when you're about to operate? it every once in a while it will creep in you know if i'm operating on a celebrity or somebody like that it will and then again you have to recognize it again yet you can't control your thoughts that it's gonna pop in there but you can be in charge of them and so i i say look i need to work on this person like they're a clock and like they're a person and integrate the two of those together. It's a person and it's a clock. Now get to work. Why operate on someone like they're a clock as well? What does that mean?

1:14:43Because, you know, this is a surgery is a mechanical alteration of some pathology that's happened in somebody's body. So you need to go in there and you need to get the job done, either dredge out a channel so that a nerve is free or remove a piece of material that's herniated and it's pressing on a nerve or take a tumor out. So there's a mechanical part of it. And our bodies are a machine. It is very much like a clock. It works in a certain way.

1:15:11Lewis Howes:If you have too much emotions tied to it of like the mom is crying to me right before, or this is a celebrity, or this is a child or whatever it might be. And their life is at stake. If you have too much of that, it sounds like you probably won't deliver your best if you're thinking of the emotions as well. Absolutely correct. Really? Yes, absolutely correct. So the, the motion is, um, and all of that comes before the incision. You know, there's a lot of that. There's a lot of chatter that can go on in your mind before an incision, but once the incision, it's step by step by step. And, um, and then you just, you just do what needs to get done.

1:15:51And you're still thinking of this person as a person, but there's no big operation. There's no small operation. It's just an operation.

1:16:00Lewis Howes:I mean, how do you compartmentalize though? That's like got to be one of the hardest things. If you've connected with this person beforehand, the family, you know, the potential good outcomes, but Hey, if something doesn't work out, this could potentially be life or death as well. How do you not allow that to consume your emotions in your heart or if like, oh, something didn't work according to plan. Like, how do you not allow that worry to consume you before finishing the operation? So you use the word compartmentalize, which I'm not a huge believer in. I'm a believer in integration. So when I'm working on, you know, let's say a young person, a 20 year old, and I know that their whole life in front is in front of them.

1:16:49And I know that, you know, your best chance at a recovery is that that first surgery that you do, that's done exactly properly. Right. Cause you don't want to try to do more afterwards. Exactly. So you want to get what's done, done. You want to create as least trauma getting there and getting out as possible. And you want to get the job done. And I believe that if it pops in your mind that, Hey, this is a young person in they're, you know, they got their whole life ahead of them. I would say it in the, I would say in the room, you know, okay, you know, we're going to retract the nerve here. This is young person.

1:17:23And this is a really important part of the operation. Just identify it, identify it. I would not try and keep that thought out. And I would focus on what's the step I need to do right now. What's the step I need to do right now. Even coming out here, I had a surgery yesterday and I had a flight to catch. Really? And I thought, you know, that's, you know, that could put some extra pressure on you, right? And I said, no, it won't. Because if it takes too long, I'll miss the flight. Right. It's the way that it is. That's what I do. So I just think trying to keep it out is too challenging. I'd rather bring it in.

1:18:03Interestingly, I started operating on my friends. Again, that was another thing. Really? It was another thing that I was taught. But I was given conventional wisdom by my grandfather, who was a surgeon, and my uncles, who are surgeons, never operate on your friends because - What if something goes wrong? What if something goes wrong? Oh my gosh. Okay. That's scary. So here's the thing though. What if something goes wrong? Well, who's the person who cares about them the most? Yeah, you. Who would do whatever needs to happen to get it done right? That's true. So I'm getting a little older now and a lot of my friends are getting degenerative spine disease and they're needing surgery.

1:18:38How many friends have you operated on? Probably about 10 or 15. Really? It's only happened recently. Oh my goodness. But my, you know, my coach helped me. I have a coach and he helped me. He asked me, he said like, wait a minute, you don't, you, you love this person. They're your friend. One of them was my, one of my coaches. He said, you love this coach. I said, yeah. He said, and you, this is an operation that you can do better than anybody else or as good as anybody else. I said, yes, absolutely. He said, then why aren't you? You're, you're, you're morally obligated to operate on them. I

1:19:07Lewis Howes:This person is going to feel more safe with your hands probably, you know, some stranger that they don't know. What I say to my friends is I say, I want you to put on your menu that I would operate on you if you want me to. Some people don't feel reciprocal. They don't want it to change the relationship. But what I found is it works just great. And a couple of times the surgery didn't go as planned, but I was there and whatever went wrong during the surgery. I mitigated, I fixed and went through it and they've done well. And yes, it's after the surgery, it's a little more emotionally taxing because I really do want them, of course, to be better.

1:19:47To recover. Yes, to recover. But during the surgery, I've trained my mind to not do it. Now, the next level, which I do not have is operating on family members. But I know some doctors who do, and they've said to me, they said, look, I care about this person more than anybody. I'm going to do a better job. So I think it's the mindset. It's your mindset.

1:20:07Lewis Howes:Wow. That's scary. It's scary. But I guess if you had 30 years of experience, you're probably like, oh yeah, it should be me doing this. And it's not scary. Exactly. Exactly. Wow. That's interesting. It comes with a higher price tag in terms of just beforehand, you know, again, because again, like I said, it's beforehand, all those thoughts creep into your head and after all those thoughts creep in your head. But during the surgery, have focused on what needs to get thought. Wow. If someone is watching or listening to this conversation right now and they only do one thing differently this week moving forward about how to optimize their life, what would you say that thing should be that they do?

1:20:46Recognize that fear is ubiquitous in our world. And fear comes in many different forms and many different words. Saying that you're uncomfortable is fear. saying it's a low level fear, but it's a fear saying that you're anxious is a fear. We live, we have an epidemic of anxiety. What is anxiety? It's fear. Okay. Recognize that it, it, it impedes your performance and the way to diminish it is to pick it apart. Ask yourself, what am I really fearful of? Okay. And again, it comes down to you're thinking of something in the future and you're thinking that you're going to feel something you don't want to feel.

1:21:25and the thing is okay so let's say my dog is limping now and I'm I'm I'm I'm sad for her because she loves to run and um and my thoughts in my mind are like oh my dog maybe she's gonna reach in her and I'm okay Mark what are you you're thinking about something in the future there's gonna become there's gonna come a day when your dog is gonna pass you're gonna have to make a decision to put her down is that today it's not today okay when is it I don't know when it is, I'll be sad. Okay. Nobody ever died of sadness. Okay. It comes, we feel it and it passes through us and we move on. Nobody ever died of sadness.

1:22:05Don't be afraid of it. That helps me.

1:22:08Lewis Howes:Yeah. I still, I still have, you know, I still have a little worry about it because I worry about it, but, but that's what I do. I pick it apart. I ask myself, what are you feeling? Is that happening in the present moment? No, she's still, she, once he gets a little, gets moving a little bit, she's not limping. So it's clearly an arthritis kind of thing, but that's how you do it. So it's watch out for fear. Steve Pressfield calls it resistance and war of art. That's another great book. I call it fear. Fear is the most corrosive substance on earth. What is the one thing you still have not mastered that you think would make you a better human and a better brain For me, leadership, and that comes with responsibility.

1:22:51And if I want to be a better leader, I have to stop denying my responsibility. And responsibility, not in a blame or fault way, but in a on the cause way, on the cause. Some people say, and I've got kids in their 20s and 30s. Some people say, oh, I'm not responsible for my 25-year-old son. My answer is, well, I am in the way that I can be. I want to be responsible for them in the fact that I want to be a positive force in their life. And whenever I deny responsibility, I don't learn anything. Whenever I assume responsibility, I learn something and I have more power in my life and more effectiveness.

1:23:33Lewis Howes:If you could go back to your first day on the job 25 years ago, after you graduated, after residency, after all the learning was done in terms of schooling, and now you've officially become a brain surgeon and you can go back and you could face yourself before that first operation or that first surgery as a doctor, what piece of advice would you give yourself, your younger self now? It's great because I love this question and I give it to talks to neurosurgery departments because I can write a message in a bottle and send it back. It really is about outcomes. I mean, you're in a, you're in a performance based profession.

1:24:17You've chosen something very challenging that has, um, it's a, in some respects, it's a very unfriendly and learning environment. And, um, and you're going to have desirable outcomes and undesirable outcomes. do the best job that you can analyze when things go wrong and continually focus on getting better and don't judge yourself by your outcomes. That would be it.

1:24:45Lewis Howes:That's great. I've got a couple of final questions for you, but I want to make sure people check out your book. It's called cognitive dominance, a brain surgeon's quest to out think fear. Uh, I think everyone's got to get a lot of great information, a lot of great frameworks from this and some amazing stories as well from your experience. I want to make sure people get this book. If you're trying to master fear and overcome fear, a great book to jump in and dive into. You're also the co-founder and president of a nonprofit organization called Trenton Youth Wrestling and Learning Center that provides free wrestling instruction and mentoring for underserved boys and girls in third through eighth grade through your community, which is really cool.

1:25:25Lewis Howes:And if people are interested in that they can go to trentonyouthwrestling.org you're also on social media uh m mclaughlin md on instagram linkedin and x where else can we follow or support your journey if people are interested in more my website mark mclaughlin md um i have a cognitive dominance questionnaire and a questionnaire about quitting which is a new book that i'm working on and i have a newsletter that comes out monthly for anybody interested. Okay, cool. And that's all on your website, right? Yes. Okay. A couple of final questions for you, Dr. Mark. This has been really powerful. So I want to thank you again for being here and sharing your wisdom.

1:26:07Lewis Howes:And I acknowledge you for the big heart that you have. I know that working on human beings has got to be the most sacred thing that anyone can do. So the fact that you care deeply about humans healing and about sharing this knowledge is such a gift to the world. So I appreciate all that you do. Thank you. And, um, yeah. And I'm excited to, uh, get this message out there to people. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end of my conversation is called the three truths. So it's a hypothetical question. Imagine you get to live as long as you want to live and you get to create and accomplish all the things you want to do in this life.

1:26:44Lewis Howes:But on the last day far in the future, all of your work has to go with you. The books, the content, this conversation, no one else has access to it in this hypothetical scenario. But on your last day on earth, you get to leave behind three lessons. I call it the three truths. And we would have access to that. What would those three truths be for you? It would be gratitude for the past. If you like where you are now, then everything in your life has led you to where you are. So be grateful for it. It would be acceptance of the present. It is what it is. It's not what it's not. It's perfect just the way it is.

1:27:28And lastly, responsibility for the future. Not in a blame or a fault finding, but that you are the cause, the creator, and the source for all your thoughts and who you are and what you do. And if you want to be less frightened in the world, if you want to be a better leader, and you want to be more effective, stop denying responsibility.

1:27:55Lewis Howes:Good truce. And the final question, Dr. Mark, what's your definition of greatness? One authentic human connection and contribution at a time. Mark, thank you so much. Appreciate you. Powerful, man. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well.

1:28:38Lewis Howes:Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

1:29:05Confidence. It's listening to your gut. It's moving forward, even when the path ahead is

1:29:10Lewis Howes:unclear. For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional how. Pacific Life, the power of a promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska, and in New York, Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona. You've never been one to settle, stand down, or stand still. You're a lifelong learner, energized by excellence. There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. You've got competition to outrun, momentum to build on, and your own high standards to meet.

1:29:50Lewis Howes:Stop now? Not a chance. At Capella University, we help you catch what you're chasing because you've always had the drive. Now, go earn the degree. Capella University. What can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn more.