The Unexpected Power of Self-Healing & THRIVING RELATIONSHIPS | Gary John Bishop

25:30Yes. Like that. You'll never have the breakthrough that you're really after. How did you deal with the impact at that age? Well, it was devastating because it's carnage. Yeah. It's carnage. Like, what did I do? Who did I hurt? or how do I impact people in a negative way? Right, right. And then so if you're not fully responsible in that stage of things, you'll take yourself down another rabbit hole. You've got to kind of be flat about it. So one of the ways that I did it is this whole notion of who's to blame. So it's a massive part of our makeup as human beings. So if you start with the idea that blame is the anchor to the past.

26:11So you're either blaming yourself or somebody else. And that thing, this thing about who's to blame will ruin you. Like it will ruin you. Yes. Right? And I just got like, there's nothing to blame. There's no one to blame. Everybody was doing what they were doing at the time, given their logic. And I responded in a way that I responded given my logic. I'm not making that okay. Right. I'm not making a case for any of that. I'm just getting, and that's what's so. And when I could get it that flat, like that's what's so, I noticed there was no charger on it for me. Like nothing. Even people who have done quote unquote really bad things in my life, like really bad things.

26:58That was their logic at the time. As flawed as it was, as messed up as it was. Yeah, not saying it's okay. Not saying you wish you experienced it again. Right, no. And, you know, like I went through like a similar thing in my childhood. you know, where there was sexual abuse involved, it didn't happen like a ton of times, but it happened. And I look back and it like when I could see that person's humanity, you know, I wasn't making an excuse for them. I'm not making that okay. But suddenly, like they were no longer the devil. Yeah. And I think it's, it's figuring it away. Like you said, not being emotionally charged to a thought or a memory, because when we are charged emotionally or triggered to a memory or an experience or an event, or we see something that reminds us of that, it pulls us back into fear as opposed to, you know, leading us into love.

27:46Leading us into a vision greater than the pain or the suffering or the hurt. And we have a decision every moment. Do we want to be triggered by our past experiences or do we want to be healed of the past experiences and focus on a mission greater than the past? Right. That's great. I mean, if you would sit down and write all the stuff I have, and it filled 10 pages, Yeah. There's probably only three things in it that are what happened. The rest of it is your extrapolation, your interpretation, the kind of juice that gets added to it. Most of what's got you is all that stuff. The what happened, the like that thing, that thing, that thing.

28:31The story about what happened is what kind of holds us back. Well, yeah, because, you know, you're inextricably linked to that language. So however you've captured it for yourself, Europe, and there's lots of different fields that would break this down for you. But the connection between what you say and how you feel is just there. Right. Right. And so you are tied to all of that language. Right. Like I said, it was this kid at school who bullied me. And it was relentless and it was incessant. And it was every other day and it was cruel and it was da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Right. and then I went with, well, there was this kid who used to say things.

29:09Which is just, because that's actually what happened. You can either believe what he was saying or you don't have to believe it. Right, and all the damage was in how that was kind of captured for me in language. Yes, how you held on to it. Very good. So then I got to the point where, like, I really realized how attached I'd become to the narrative. Like, attached to the narrative because it justified this. That narrative justified and explained this. And so I was no longer able to get free of this because I was so attached to that narrative. And so when I broke that down for myself, I was able to get a little bit of space about it and really bring a sense of nothingness to it.

29:53Like, you know, as cruel as it may sound, so what? Yeah, exactly. You know? Why do you think it's so hard for us to be 100 % authentic in relationships? Yeah. If you would ask somebody about your characteristics, like your personality, for instance, what your strengths might be, that's what you've come across that you feel as if is a good machinery to make it in this life. Right? So this is like, you know, maybe I'm charismatic. Maybe I'm hardworking. Maybe I'm analytical. Maybe I'm, you know, competitive. Maybe I'm these ways. somewhere along the lines of your life, you realized this would be a good thing.

30:32And this gets me a little further forward. Gets me resolved, yeah. Very good. So then there I am in life being this way. And the more successful it is, the more I'm going to be this way. So now I'm more and more and more like this to the point where there's no distinction between this thing and me. Like we're the same now. There's no line anywhere. It's just all how you would explain yourself now. What you also realize, though, was that those ways don't work everywhere. And so what people call imposter syndrome is basically just the realization that your shtick don't stick. Like you're like, my stuff don't work here.

31:13And so people are like, oh, I feel like I'm an imposter. Well, you are in many ways, but not in the way you might think. You are an imposter. There's a you there doing another you. But behind that you really is you. So how do we get behind that you? How do we break down the thing that's been working for so long, but maybe won't continue to work in the next evolution? If I'm, for instance, competitive, right? And it's a trait of mine, and it's stood me in good stead, and I've created a life from that, and maybe some success from that, or in my case, hardworking, right? But it could be other things.

31:49It could be analytical. And this is obviously a kind of—these are ways of being. This is an ontological element, right, or the element of being a human being. So if I'm competitive, I can point to all the places where that's really done me well, right? Sports. Maybe, or maybe I'm in sales, right? Or maybe I'm, you know, like I'm building my own business, right? I mean, these are, this is a strength here, right? Yeah, try taking that home. In relationships, it doesn't work. It's a crap show, right? Like, it's like, this is not going to work for me. You know, it's fascinating. I would say I defined my identity, a piece of my identity, most of my life as a competitor.

32:29Yeah. Right. Being in sports. Yeah. And using sports as a tool to make myself feel better, to prove the bullies wrong from childhood, all those things and say, I'm going to make something of myself. I'm going to win at all costs and sports and things like that. I started early in my 20s to translate that into business. And it worked in a sense. Yes. But it left me feeling more, I don't know, against people than it was with people. All right. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Right. So there you are. And you were having an experience that this competitiveness actually wasn't working for you. Right.

33:09It wasn't. Right. It was getting results in some way, but not results in the other way. Right. So you're starting to see something there, though, that's really interesting. than you mean that is, here you are being yourself, but hold on a minute. Is this myself? And why am I suffering inside? And why am I going through these challenges? Right. So I want to know is what's the thing that's suffering then? Like, what's that? Yeah. I guess it was the identity that this isn't working. Like who I am or the way I'm being isn't working fully. It's working partially to get certain results, but it's not creating peace inside.

33:45All right, so I would flip it the other way. I would flip it the other way, look at it from the other direction. That is, it's fine for this competitive expression, but not okay for you. Absolutely. And it's the you, that you, that I'm interested in. I'm interested in that. Because that thing right there, what matters to that thing? And so you actually pioneered to it. So the thing that mattered to you then was people. Absolutely. But you see how like that competitiveness was now the barrier between you and people. And when I learned the word collaboration and fully like was like, oh, you can thrive and accomplish and improve and make an impact through collaboration.

34:32Yeah. More than through competition. Yeah. And you can feel more connected through collaboration and you can experience more love and support as opposed to it's me versus the world type of feeling. I really just got you there. I just really got you. Like your trajectory, I really got it. Like that was what a burden you've had to carry. It was a wait for so long because it was working in a sense of it was getting results. But then at the inside, I was like, why am I still suffering or feeling pain or feeling stress or anxiety? Why can't I sleep at night? So it wasn't until I hit about 30 when I learned the idea of collaboration.

35:11And shifted from I need to be number one and the best and grow the fastest and the biggest to I want everyone else to shine with me. How can we all rise together? And that's when I started this show. And I said, I'm going to put the light on everyone else. Right. What's interesting about what you're saying, though, is what what's now driving you is who you really are. Yeah. Service. Which always comes down to that. Absolutely. I don't care who you are, what you're doing. Everyone's purpose is to be of use. Can I be of use? Yes. Right. Like, can I. Well, I die and say I made a difference. Absolutely.

35:47Right. And I don't care what you're doing, how you're doing it. If you can't take all the layers away and get to that, and you need to get to it, because it shapes everything you're doing. And to use a well-used term, the rest is kind of like the ego. Ego wants what it wants and what it needs. And you might get some success with that, but you will never be happy with that. You'll never be settled with that. And it's your job as a human being to actually disappear. and I really mean it like that, like to disappear your addiction to that and to get grounded in you. Where's your true north? Like, where are you?

36:29What's your expression? If you take away all the fear, if you take away all the armor that you've built and realize that what needs to get out is way more powerful than anything you've put up to protect yourself. Right. What needs to get out Meaning what? You. Right. The you that you started with. See, look, when you started this life, like all human beings like me, like everybody watching or listening to this right now, if you go around a two-year-old or a three-year-old or a five-year-old, they're tremendously robust. Yes. Like robust. Like they get upset by things, but then they're like, okay, next thing, right?

37:08Like when you get to 30, you're like wounded. You're like, oh, for the love of God. You know what I mean? But when you're little like that, like if you've ever been around kids that are like two, ontologically that is their self-expression, their ways of being are vast. Yes. And they can be lots of different ways. Like, and it's crazy. You watch them like flip from one and you're like, oh my God, that's manic, you know? But you used to be that way. You used to be that like fully there. Over time, one decision after another, it's getting narrower and narrower and narrower, such that by the time you reach your late teens, you're pretty much just heading there now.

37:48And a lot of what I've done with people is to get them back to that spot of like unabashed aliveness. You know, like I'm just here to be alive, which is what the philosopher Alan Watts said, you know, the meaning of life is to be alive. there's nothing else it's just to go and run with this meat bag you know and make it do some wild things and then it's over you know and you know people have got their views about the rest of that stuff but sure but really for me that's it it's like to realize first the constraint what am i constrained by what am i locked in by and it's not people it's not circumstances not that is you.

38:30What about you? And then beyond that is a life of wonder. And it's not like it's all like, oh, you know, this is amazing and I'm amazing and you're amazing. No, there's still trials and tribulations and all that other stuff and problems. And yeah, that's all part of the deal. But what's different is who's now doing it. Right. Who's doing it? Right. How are you showing up differently? Very good. How am I showing up? Which part of you is showing up? Right. Is it the junk or something else. Yeah, exactly. You've been in a, you know, you've been in this marriage and relationship for 26 years, right?

39:02How long were you dating before? No, I literally asked my wife to marry me after just a matter of weeks. Wow. Yeah. Then you got married that year. Yeah. Year later, we waited a year, but. I'm curious then, you've been in the relationship for a long time, obviously 27 years total now. I'm assuming you've met a lot of people who've been married and who've been divorced. And I'm also assuming you probably have some friends who've been married for 20, 30, 40 years that you're in contact with. What do you see is the difference maker for healthy, long-lasting love for decades versus those that stay married a long time but aren't happy and those that eventually get divorced?

39:44I think the statistics are something like 50%, right? So 50 % of all marriages end in divorce. The illusion is that the 50 % that are left are happy. No, they're not. No, they're not, right? Maybe 15 % or something. Maybe, right? And we don't really know. I mean, like, if you went and polled everybody, you might be even shocked. It's 5 % or... Maybe, right? Gosh, why are they so challenging to be healthy and happy long term for so many people? Well, I think part of the deal is the bar's very low. So the bar's something like we get along. Right. Like, that's it? I've got T-shirts I get along with.

40:19So what's it really all about? If that's the struggle, if the struggle is to get along, like I said, that's a very low bar. You get along with lots of people. Right, right. I mean, I get along with the person who makes my coffee at Starbucks. But really what I've found to be the case, and I'm not looking at particular people for examples, right? But I'm going to look at what keeps a human being involved in anything. Right. So like, why does somebody like, so I love to play guitar. Why? Right. Why? Because I engage with that thing. I'm curious about that thing. I want to get better at that thing.

40:56I like how it feels when I accomplish something in that thing. If you take that in any aspect of your life, the same thing holds true. So my relationship with my wife is a function of who I am in it. And I need to keep bringing that to it. There's no time when this is a done deal. You know, I have to keep showing up here, not for like for longevity, which is I think where a lot of people get messed up. People look at the relationship, well, I can't do this for the rest of your life, the rest of my life. And I'm like, well, you don't have to. Just do it today. Right. It's like being on a diet. I don't need to be on a diet for three months.

41:31I just need to be on it right now. Yeah. And it is moment to moment to moment to moment to moment because that's really all you have. But so what I do notice is that the areas of life where you are flourishing most, there is some profound relationship you have between what you say and what you do. There's a profundity at play. So if you look at any area you're successful, you are literally doing what you said you would do. even when what? I don't feel like it. Yeah. Right? Marriage is the same. Marriage is the same. Marriage, and I talk about this in the book, I say, especially in the Western world, but you look at, and I'm using marriage as kind of a model, but it applies to all relationships.

42:17Yes. But in a marriage, there's this ceremony. There's this coming together. Or you make an agreement, a commitment. Very good. And you use words. And it's a vow. Yes. Right? And I talk about the bankruptcy of the vow in a marriage because nobody vows anything anymore. Or they vow it, but they don't live up to the... Well, because they don't have a relationship to a vow. So we're not going around in life going, I'll vow to meet you at three o 'clock. Right, right. Right, nobody's saying that. But 200 years ago, when you vowed something, the American Declaration of Independence is just people vowing.

42:48They brought something into existence on the strength of what they said. Yes. There was no fighting. Well, there was some fighting. but they created a nation from words. Right. Right. I mean, that's what that is. That's like a declaration, right? We're declaring we're independent. What do you mean you're independent? Well, we just declared it. So we are. And we vow our lives in our sacred honor. And most of those people literally gave their life for that. They literally gave their life to that promise. I bet they were scared. Absolutely. I bet they were intimidated. but their word was greater than that experience of themselves.

43:28That's the same in any area of your life. You have to start realizing that what you say is a big deal and what you say to yourself is a big deal. A lifetime of constantly bending, shaping, and breaking your word to yourself will leave you with a diminished relationship to you. You'll never do great things because somewhere in there you think you're full of it because you've broken your word to yourself so many times. You're out of integrity with yourself. Very good. There's no power to those words anymore. What happens when we are out of integrity so consistently with ourself or even one time with ourself?

44:03What happens to ourselves? Well, I mean, you got to start relating to what you say like it's important. Just like it's important. Start there. I said I was going to, and this is important, not because the thing's important, but what I said to myself and my relationship to that thing. is what's important. So any area in life, like I said earlier, where you're powerful or successful, you'll see you have a very strong relationship to what you said. Very strong one. Sometimes you're committed to that thing. There's just no question for you. Like it's on like Donkey Kong, you know, you're just doing it.

44:41Why is it easier in some areas of life than it is in others to be consistent with what you say and what you want to do? Right. And that's eventually, it's great that you kind of put it that way because that's the path you'll follow. But the real strength of you is when you can say something, like for instance, when I was in my mid-40s, I said, I'm going to produce authentic wealth. What's the difference between authentic and inauthentic? Yeah, I'm doing it for that, not for anything about me, which was wild for me because everything up to that point about money was all about fixing something about me or my life.

45:18And I was just doing it to see if I could do it, which I'd never done before. And I'd never fully given it that attention, like just for that. And so I put a number on it, which was a crazy number for that time in my life, like crazy number. For your 40s of what? How much you wanted to make? I was 45, yeah. And I said, I'm going to do it. I'm going to use my 50s for that. And I'm going to produce it, right? I produced it by the time I was 52. And I only really started when I was 48. so I did it really fast the amount of money that you wanted to make but it was wild because I had no attachment to it there was no emotion in it for me there was no desperation I gotta do it, no burning it was just like I said I was gonna do it and I'm doing it so I ended up with this really flat relationship between my words and my actions it was flat there were days when I felt like doing it and there were days when I didn't feel like doing it but the interesting thing for me was when I declared it, when I said I was going to do it, like the Declaration of Independence, I had no idea how I was going to do something like that.

46:26Like I don't know how you even, I'm not a money guy. You know, I'm not, but now it's game on because I created the top of the mountain in my speaking. So I spoke the top of the mountain and the existence. And then you figured out how along the way. But that's now the game. The game, people say, well, you know, how do you even do such a thing? Well, that's the first question. How do you do such a thing? And you might have to engage with that question for two years or three years or four years. But you've got to be actively resolving some of that stuff for yourself. Well, it's the same in love. Like I'm committed to the most loving, passionate and adventurous relationship that's possible.

47:07That's the top of the mountain. The top of the mountain speaks to me every day. I can tell whether I'm walking that path or not. that influences this. It's not even necessarily about that. It's more about what that does with this. Well, how does that shape me today? How does that, am I lining up with what I said or not? And if I'm not, I might have a lot of reasons, excuses and justifications for that. But at the same time, am I going to treat that like it matters to me? Or am I going to just be like, well, you know, so far so good, or it's been a tough week, or, you know, there's a lot in my mind.

47:46Or, you know, are you being a jerk? Why am I loving with you? Because I said I would. And that's what matters to me. That's what matters. That I said I would matters to me. Someone once told me that the key to his success in relationships was 80 % of it was who you choose. 80 % of the relationship success is, you know, how you match well with the person you're choosing. Yeah. You only spent, I guess, a year with the person that you chose. Yeah. Did you know that when you were choosing this person? Did you were like, okay, I feel like we're going to be in a great alignment with our values and our vision and our lifestyle?

48:24Or was it more of just a feeling that you felt connected to this person and you decided? I did what everybody does, right? What everybody does is they get in a relationship because they feel as if this person resolves something about themselves. That's what I did. And so there was something about this woman that I thought, wow, like being with her, everything seems right. Like I feel good about me. I didn't feel good until I met her. Right. Like there's something getting fixed here. So no, I'm not that pragmatic. And I think most people aren't that pragmatic. And I think there's an illusion there that somehow you'll find the one.

49:01And really, I feel as if the job is to explore what's possible between you and this person, whoever that person is, and their potential and your potential. And so it was less about having, like finding something that matched up with me, which I don't know if that would work for me. Might work for some people. I don't know if that would work for me. What was really captivating for me at the time was being with her had me feel a lot better about me. and I think I really fundamentally believe that that's what most people go into relationships for. Is that the right thing to look at or is it? No, that's an absolute.

49:37It's a recipe because then you're always relying on that person to make you happier. Well, because whatever that thing is that they satisfy for you is something you haven't sorted out for yourself yet. Right. So eventually you're going to have to do that. Otherwise you're always needing that from someone else. Right. So you go in there and they're the solution and you end it with the notion that they were the problem. Ah, wow. And what's consistent in all of that is you. Right. I mean, I don't know if anybody's ever noticed this, but in every crappy relationship you've ever had, it's got one common denominator.

50:12That's you. Right. It's always you. There's a big awakening I had after my previous relationship ended. I was like, man, it's been 10, 15 years of relationships that started and then that crumbled in some way or that fell apart. And the core of all those things was me. Right. Was my choices, was my getting into, attracting those relationships, was this commitment to those relationships, was the unwinding those relationships. And so why was I choosing these types of relationships? What was unresolved within me that I get to take a look at now? Or am I going to keep repeating this pattern until I address the thing inside of me?

50:52Right. Right. So what's great about your kind of pathway, if you like, you can't, first of all, you've got to be able to look at that distinct from blame, right? And I know a lot of people just heard what you said and thought, well, but what if it is them, right? I know a lot of people sitting there right now going, dang, I did say that to myself. And I say, well, if you take away, like, who's to blame? Yes. And so sometimes people say stuff like, why do I keep attracting these kinds of people? And I say, well, what if it's not attraction? What if you are literally looking for them? What if you're seeking something about that person that initially solves what you're dealing with, right, but will allow it to keep perpetuating?

51:38Like it keeps showing up and showing up. I call that an identity relationship. There's something about you, and it's the same for the other person, that when you get past all the stuff, whatever's incomplete will keep getting activated there or keep showing up. So when you start to see it like, oh, these are just two human beings doing what human beings do, then it's not personal, which is radical when you get it like that. It's not personal. It's not personally them, personally me. These are just two beings trying to work this out. And work what out? Well, essentially work themselves out. So that's why I insist with people.

52:24The greatest work you'll ever do, you'll ever do, is to get complete with your first 20 years of life. So true. First 20 years. Because everything after that is a reflection of it. I spent 26 years in Glasgow. 26 years. I've been longer here. And I still identify with that like it's me. But I've been longer here. And it's some of the colloquialisms and the traditions. Like I identify with that because it became so imprinted. You know, in my second book I talked about, you're the little magic sponge. And you're not soaking up all of life. You're soaking up the bits. and then when you hit about 20, that little sponge just hardens and whatever's in there, that's it.

53:16It's in there and that's what you use. Right. That logic and until you awaken to that and realize that all of that that's there is really only a potential you. There's so much more. If you think about it like quantum physics, right? Like multiple universes, endless universes all happening at the same time, multiple potentials. Well, that's every second of your life. Every second of your life, there's a myriad of potential yous that could be talking right now. And what you typically do is the you that you did the second before and the second before. And so it perpetuates until you get aware, until you start to be like, oh, I'm not stuck with this.

54:05I could literally be somebody else. When? Right now. Right now I could be somebody else. Right now I could say something else. How many things did you realize in your first 20 years of life that you needed to deal with or face or integrate a healing journey? I think all of it. Really? I really think all of it. I think I had to come in terms with, like when I was really young, I felt as if I was too small. Built in underneath with that was I'm not strong. Right. I'm weak. I'm not enough. I'm being picked on. So there's all of that. And then I'm not lovable. And then for me, it was I'm not smart enough.

54:41That was mine too. And I'll never be smart enough. See, that's the thing with these things. At that part of your life, it's not that I'm not lovable or I'm not smart enough or I'm not strong enough. It's that I'll never be that way. Right. I'll never be that way. It seems daunting. Right, right. So all of your persona and your personality is designed for you to overcome that. But that can't go away. Because if that goes away, if you base your whole personality on that. Yeah, your identity is based on that. Now you're just facing a crisis because now it's like everything that I base myself on, what if it's not true?

55:18Then who am I? And people go nuts with that stuff. And I say, well, take a breath and think of it like who you are is a moment of time. And in any moment of time, there's the possibility of you expressing something new that you've never expressed before. Right. Something that's not based on anything other than the moment you're in. It's not based on a previous logic. It's like literally an opportunity for you to show up as something new of your own creation. Everybody has a possibility. Everybody has the opportunity for that. And it is a way of living life. And it's not like, oh, this guy's found a secret to everything.

56:03No. I'm a human being too. I'm wired a certain way. It's there now. The question is, how aware of that am I? And how responsible can I be for that playing in my life? Am I going to own that or is that going to own me? And that's the space we all want to be in. It's a space called choice. And it's a real choice. What do you wish you would have done differently in the first few years of your relationship with your wife? Would you have had different conversations? Would you have created different agreements to cause less kind of friction or pain or stress in the first decade, I guess, until you started to unwind your identity and tap more into this loving being as opposed to this hardworking being that cared for her?

56:51Well, in the first few years of my life, it was very passionate. So I was crazy about this girl. You know, like it was very passionate. And this was a time in my life when I was a musician. So, you know, I'm playing in a band and there's this beautiful woman who loves me. You know, like life is amazing. Life is good, man. You know, we've got three sons now, but the first eight years of our marriage was just my wife and I just having a brilliant time together. So this is great. And we were like the antithesis to like married couples. You know, we were like happening. You know, this is all great.

57:23But now when I look back on that, there really was no look down the road. There was no, like, what's this about? You know, it's just it was all very much riding that particular roller coaster. Living in the moment of fun and adventure. Right, but the problem was nothing was getting created. There was no, this is what we're up to. There's no vision coming to life. Right, but that was on a very personal level. Like there was no thought in my head like, so where does this go? You know, it was just like, well, let's see. You know, as there shouldn't be, by the way, when you're in your 20s and 30s.

57:59There's no like, what would it be like when I'm in my 40s or my 50s or my 60s with this woman? You know, it was all just about making my way through where I was. The brick wall that I had, like I said a little earlier, was mid to late 30s. And I'm like, I don't work anymore. Like this. How did you know you weren't working? Was it a feeling? Was it a stress? Was it a lack of mission or purpose? Was it a lack of love for yourself? How did you know, like, I'm not working? Yeah, there was this kind of very fundamental experience of dissatisfaction. Like, no matter what I did, it doesn't matter what I do.

58:35In the results, in the success, it wasn't, you weren't satisfied. It's funny because, and there was kind of earlier parts of my life, and I assert this is true for all human beings. you think the next thing is going to solve it and then you get there and the problem's still there and you might not fully have fleshed that problem yet but you know it's there like if you look back at the accomplishments of your life when you had them going for it you're like I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it and then you hit it and you're like now what, yeah right, now what, right now what and then the next thing you do six of them Like, huh, I'm not feeling what I'm supposed to be feeling.

59:17Right. How come I'm not feeling it? Because it never resolves whatever the thing was. And so if there was anything I wish I'd really identified, and I don't mean this from a space of regret. I really don't. But it would have been kind of neat to identify the hole that I was trying to fill. You know, it would have been neat to see what I'm doing. I'm just happy that I did identify it. People go through their whole life and never, There's no introspection. Right. There's no like, and introspection is a funny thing because you can do too much of that too. Right? You can go too deep and you don't belly button.

59:51You need to just kind of relax sometimes and live life. Right. You got to be like, well, it's kind of like, the way I've always related to it since I started to work on myself is, okay, that's a good little insight. How am I going to use this? Yeah. So I'm always using it for some thing in my life, for some good in my life or the people that I'm at the impact. because you can get, you can start to kind of get off on that. Like, oh, that's a great discovery. Oh, yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But it doesn't actually show up in the reality of your life. You got to make it show up. Yeah, I guess that's the only real thing.

1:00:23Like, what was the hole I was trying to fill? Because if you could have done that earlier, then what would you have done in those first 10 years? There's that kind of force for life that you have when you're 20. You know, there's a, which gets you by. Yes. It gets you overcome a lot of hills, you know, a lot of mountains. There's just a kind of forward trajectory that maybe I'd have used it for something else. Maybe it would have been... But then when I look back, I think the context that I choose for that time now when I look back on it is I really had to go through the darkness to realise that that wasn't the light.

1:00:58Right. Because when you're in that, you think this is the... Like, I'm going somewhere. Yeah. And then there's a point where you're like, I'm going nowhere. Exactly. I'm going nowhere. And so the context that I choose for that now is it was a brilliant learning process for me, real life learning process. What do you think is the overall key from everything you learned to having a fulfilling relationship then? It's got to be grounded in what matters. I realized that two things that mattered to me in life were love and adventure. I realized that that was now my job in my relationship to bring it, not to seek it, and to bring it because it's who I am.

1:01:34when you take away the notion that you're seeking it, it's a whole lot easier to actually be in relationship. Because a lot of people say, I'm looking for love. If they're single, I'm looking for love. I'm looking for adventure. But if you be love, if you're being love and you're being adventurous, you will be it. You won't need to find it. You are it. And you'll find, you'll attract other people who are it as well. The interesting thing about my wife and I, which was really has been brilliant since I took on this kind of perspective, is she's not always looking for what I'm expressing, what I'm expressing.

1:02:08She's expressing her expression of what it is to be in relationship, which is sometimes really different. You know, like she's got a different expression of love than I do. But I'm not sitting there like, oh, you know, feed me that. I'm more like, this is an opportunity. This is an opening in my life. This is an opening in time for me to get this up. You know, and she's given it her version, you know, And it really isn't 50-50. It's not like that because I don't, like I told her, you know, I don't need you to be anyone but yourself. You know, just be yourself. What happened when you shifted that?

1:02:43It was just like this massive release of pressure. You know, it was like, oh, we're okay. You know, we're okay. Like, you can just be you. You don't need to control something. You don't need to fix something. You don't need to change something. Nothing about this woman. Does that mean like it's all like if I look at my wiring and the way that I'm wired? No, I get hooked and I get triggered and I get like. One of the things that we did, by the way, that I think is important is we made it OK to argue. It's OK. Even if it's a stand up argument fight and she called me some and I called her some. It's OK.

1:03:22Right. This doesn't this isn't all adding up to the exit. It's not. It's like a moment in time. It's like something happened. Okay. Being forgiving is a massive part of my life and a massive part of my relationship. I don't, I'm not going to string you up for something you did or said. Like I'm not. You're a human being too. In other words, there's a lot of space that I'm continually making. I make a lot of space for my wife. I make a lot of space for my children. So whatever way they are, it's got a lot of room. I'm not like pressing on it and compressing it, and you should be in control. No, let me just back off and let that be.

1:04:04It'll dissipate. It's okay. And so there's a lot of that in our relationship. But you probably have to be okay with who you are and comfortable with your own skin in order to create the space of whatever emotions or environment happens, right? You've got to be dealing with that healing journey continuously so that you're not reactive to it. That's a critical part of it. You have to give yourself the room to be a human being. Stop holding yourself to some ideal. You're not always going to be perfect. There's got to be times in your life when you look at it like, oh, could I even? I was a real jerk there.

1:04:39Like, oh, my gosh. I wish I could take that back. And I'll initially go there, and then I'll be like, hold on a minute. I'm a human being too. And I think that's one of the things that's drawn a lot of people in my work. I'm not professing to have every answer. And I'm not floating around here like, you know, Gandhi or something. You know, I'm not like, this isn't, I'm not a perfect kind of human being on one hand. Right. Or maybe I am. Yeah, exactly. Maybe this is what it is, you know, to be a human being. It's all of it. It's all the things. I really believe you're just a vessel for experiences.

1:05:23Absolutely. And some of them are great, and some of them are kind of crappy. And it's okay. The more you try and fix it or shape it or move it, you're kind of nailing it down rather than letting it just pass through. This is powerful, man. I've got a couple of final questions for you, but I really love this conversation in your book, Love Unfair. Getting your relationship together is out. People can buy it on Amazon or wherever books are sold. We'll have it all linked up as well in the description in the show notes. But where are you on social media the most or how can we connect with you beyond the book?

1:05:58And I love the short but packed books because I can read them. So I appreciate this. No, that's good. I love that you said that too because I really feel as if the value in my books is in the thinking you're going to have to do. It's not necessarily that you're going to take something out of there linearly. Yes. But yeah, I'm everywhere, but Instagram's like a favorite of mine. Obviously, I spend a lot of time on there. I love to give people stuff that they can think about and chew on. But I'm also on Facebook. I'm on Twitter. And obviously, my website, GaryJohnBishop.com. There you go. And you've got all the information for your books there and everything else you're up to at GaryJohnBishop.com.

1:06:37Yeah. Love this, man. I've got a question for you. This is called the Three Truths question I ask everyone at the end. Yeah. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. It's your last day on Earth. many years away. You live as long as you want to live. You are the vessel that experiences life to the fullest and you accomplish what you want to accomplish. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you on the last day. The books, the content, this interview, for whatever reason, you've got to go somewhere else. So it's not left in the world. But you get to leave behind three lessons with the world, three things that you know to be true from your life experiences.

1:07:12And this is all we'd have to remember you by. What would you say are those three truths? The only truth is the one you've agreed with. The second one would be you are an unlimited potential, whether you believe that or not. And be kind. Yeah. I want to acknowledge you, Gary, for a moment because you've had an amazing journey and you've dedicated this, I guess, second phase of your life to service. to using your experiences, your thinking, your challenges, the pain, and creating work that inspires and serves and educates. And I really acknowledge you for showing up consistently with your perfect imperfections and just sharing what you know, sharing what you've learned, and putting it in ways that we can understand it that might be confusing at times.

1:08:01So I really acknowledge you for showing up big the way you have. And I think shifting a identity that you you were so stuck on from the way you grew up and being okay with letting it die and also holding on to some of it and transforming, I think, is so hard for so many people. I know it's hard for me. So I really acknowledge you for shifting that and being constantly in a reinvention phase of your life and in service to so many people. Well, thank you for that generous acknowledgement. That was really brilliant. One of the things, I'm going to acknowledge you for a second if you don't Yeah, sure.

1:08:33So I think you're a brilliant example, like a truly brilliant example of what it is to be vulnerable. Thanks, man. And it screams. Thanks, man. In a really great way. Thank you. Appreciate it. Appreciate it, man. I think, yeah, the last eight, nine years I've really opened up and allowed myself to be vulnerable at any moment. Great. I get it. It's not easy. No. You know, it's not easy. But I think the more I embody vulnerability, the more my heart is open to receiving people, to having intimate conversations, to being able to share things that are sad or scary or whatever might be coming up for me.

1:09:11So I appreciate it. And I receive it, man. Yeah. My final question for you. And again, I want to make sure people get the book. We'll have it all linked up. But my final question, Gary, is what's your definition of greatness? Oh, that's a brilliant question. Right. So it's the triumph of the human spirit. It's the opportunity for somebody to go beyond whatever that might be for you. And sometimes it's a simple thing like going beyond some old hurt or pain. But sometimes it's going beyond a situation or a circumstance. I really do believe in the possibility of people living great lives. And so it always comes down to triumph of the human spirit.

1:09:55There you go. Gary, appreciate you, man. Awesome. Thanks, brother. Thank you so much. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcasts and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes.

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