The WEALTH Expert: How I Built an $80 MILLION Business in a Weekend | Noah Kagan

23:11And I don't know, was that from your, one of your, the founder of FedEx, the founder of Kinkos, Kinkos, Kinkos. Yeah. So do you remember what that, what that was or what that question was? I don't know if that was the exact question or what he said, but do you remember that? Yeah. I remember him. The other person I think of, when I think of success, I asked the founder of Strava, you know, Strava, it's a cycling tracking app. It's like social network for cyclists. Yeah. And this is the most unique one. I don't know. I don't think he's a billionaire, which is totally great. Right. It's still doing really well.

23:37It's an amazing app, big business. And I asked him, I was like, what's success? He's like, not waking up to an alarm. That one's I never forgot because it's such a, it means you have freedom of your time. You're a time millionaire. And the fact that you're like, I can wake up whenever I want and do the things I really want in my day. That is, to me, I like, okay, I like that level of success. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. And the other guy was the founder of Kinko's or? His founder of Kinko's. And yeah, I mean, what was shocking about his story, he sold his company 2.4 billion, became a billionaire.

24:05and the disappointing part he was awesome i really admire him um mr ophelia uh but he said he was stressed for 34 years he's like every day i'm stressed building back business yeah he's like is it gonna work am i on a payroll do i have to do this thing i have to fly that stuff and i remember just being like i don't want that and that's the coolest part about life i can look at lewis i can look at noah i can check him out i can be like whose haircut do i want to try and guess what you create your own you take all these different ones and you get a piece together the haircut you want to actually wear yeah so I like seeing that I was like I don't want to live that life I'm happy making less money but doing it the way I want yeah but for 20 years you lived a certain level of life building your business making money and there was anxiety and stress around that for a long time right when did you realize like okay this level of stress and you know, emotional overwhelm and just like always needed to get bigger and bigger and bigger.

25:05When did you realize that no longer works for you and that you wanted to shift it? Yeah. Maybe you knew from the beginning it doesn't work, but you were still doing it. But when did you realize, okay, this is not how I want to live the rest of my life? Yeah. What I, for me, I'm 41 and I think you have to be stressed in your twenties. If you, there, there's a part of stress that's good. It's not always a bad thing. I think you see the book out there, upside of stress. So in 20s, you're figuring out your life and you're just working yourself. You don't know really what's happening. And in your 30s, you're kind of a little more clear.

25:35You're like, okay, I like maybe YouTube. I like promoting products. And then your 40s, for me, I find it calm. And that just takes time to find out who we really are and be patient with some process that eventually we will figure it out. And for me, COVID, I would say, is when I finally found more peace. Really? Yeah. When most people found more stress, you found peace. Why did COVID bring you peace? because I recognized that but how I was approaching business I had a plan I was like here's what we're gonna be doing here's our budget here's our business and I have a plan that I can follow so I was part one and part two is I didn't really like how I was living I was engaged and it didn't work out yeah you know I had my business partner had a line he was recommend he said to me he's like are you getting what you're getting or you're getting what you want from a relationship yeah not not for business partner right shout out Chad he's amazing So you were engaged, maybe there were some ups and downs and you weren't fully clear.

26:27Yeah. And he asked you that question. Yeah. Are you getting what you're getting? Are you getting what you want? And what was the answer? I'm not getting what I want. And that's hard, right? I think most of us, this is the thing I've noticed about advice, especially watching interviews and interviewing people. Most of us know the truth. We know our truth. It's just hard. And we don't want to accept it. Yeah. And everyone has courage. I did this ayahuasca thing, which I know is more common now, but I did it years ago. and courage to me was I was afraid of it uh-huh but I did it anyways and then I was still scared and there was a whole crazy story about this but coming out of it I was like oh I realize I can do hard things and all of us can do hard things but we have to face the hard thing yes and we all have it in us and so for me with breaking up with the fiancee which was tough and I knew what was that like that was probably one of the more bigger regrets in my life uh that I didn't do it sooner because I wasted her time wasted my time uh yeah that's tricky it was two years of just like back and everyone's gone through this it's not unique for me but it was two years of um okay let's try to make it work but i know i'm not really good for you and i don't feel good about myself and so it was like eventually when when covid happened that was that was kind of our um we had some some issues i went down and i was like i can't do this like i i can't spend it was this was everything i thought i was like do i want 40 more years of this oh man yeah that was it was tough and it's interesting i asked myself uh a question in the in in a previous relationship before, I think Esther Perel said something like, can you see yourself having 10 ,000 meals with this person?

27:58Like, if you're going to have 10 ,000 meals with a person, do you see yourself enjoying those meals, having fun, or is it more stressful? Yeah. And I mean, all that added up. I mean, even doing like this book, Million Dollar Weekend or YouTube and stuff, nothing was wrong, but she is not, with our relationship, she did not get excited. Like, I want to go to YouTube. I like attention. And my partner now with Moffat, she's like, go on YouTube, have fun with Louis. And for me, that worked. My ex will find a partner that's better. And so with COVID, it was like having a plan of business, breaking up with the fiance.

28:28And then I think the other part that was kind of interesting was experimenting with life. There's a scene with business. It's an experiment. It's all an experiment. It's a game. And I experimented just different ways of living. I experimented finally living kind of rich. Like I had money, but I never enjoyed it. Really? Yeah, I think we're all taught that money can't buy happiness and that you're like, you know, how do you shouldn't be buying these things and don't live this way? and most of the ones who are showing that stuff are actually probably not that don't have the money for my own poor but like they probably don't have the money right most poor people don't most rich people don't need to be posting about it right and so I started I rented a Malibu beach house I rented a lake house in Austin I started doing these things I got like an RV for a month and I just kind of like drove around and like hung out the RV and I was like wow having some nicer space to live it makes me feel a lot better and so those kind of things led me in a direction where single for a while, started doing dating coaches, had a business plan that I was executing for AppSumo, so I felt in control of the business.

29:22And then I felt like I'm actually going to start taking care of myself. And then I also felt like I could take care of others then too as I was feeling better about myself. And I think the past three years I've felt much better, just been much calmer. What has money and relationships taught you about when you've been in a relationship that you weren't fully sure of was going to work out? what was your views around money during that time? Were you more anxious and stressed? Were you more abundant thinking? Like where were you at with money? It's easy to be abundant when you have money. I'll tell you that it's hard when you do it.

29:54And that's what most people they're struggling with money. That's why I'm like, let's talk about entrepreneurship. Cause that's a way of you can changing your situation, which everyone can do. And I had a friend who said, no, you're here and you're here where you want to be. And it's actually closer than you think. I was like, really? He's like, yeah, it's much closer than you think. And you thought it was a bigger gap. I thought it's a gap. I thought there's something I don't know. I thought there's something outside. And it's something I think we're both, as we've gotten older, it's all inside.

30:17Just being kind of like, hey, it's okay. Yeah, of course. It's okay. Now, with my ex, it was not that there was a good or bad thing about money. It was just how we treated each other with it. I didn't really spend a lot of money on myself. So what did you do with your money? Because you were making money every year. Was it just compounding in a bank account? Was it in stocks? What were you doing? Yeah. My father built his own business and then lost it to drugs and alcohol. And it was a sad, like, that's definitely for me. I think a lot of men, we want our fathers to recognize us. And I was fortunate I have a great mom and a great stepfather.

30:46But for me, that father attachment. and I think with growing up with Jewish parents candidly like we're taught to be very frugal we're taught to be very practical and it's just like go make money and that that's a thing versus like all right how do you enjoy life and I think with my ex it wasn't she kind of made me feel bad about it like why don't you spend money or we go to the airport it's like five dollars for a bottle of water I'm like I'm gonna go to the bathroom and drink from the faucet like right right or like I'm just like five bucks it's fine I don't care and I'm there's still times but over time you start spending in different things like i bought a fancy jaguar i had so much regret on it yes you did oh yeah i hated it i hated it i dude i oh man it was the worst because i don't care about nice cars i have a 2004 miata uh-huh i just got a new vespa there you go that's the second i do i do have a i have a model y but it was not important to me and i think that was interesting where she wasn't and for both of us she wasn't like hey she was like you're being cheap i was like okay you know it kind of like felt deflated versus i was like hey why don't we you know do Do you want to try spending these things?

31:44Can we rent it for a day? Right, right, right. So I think there was ways of actually being more positive to each other with money. Right. Wow. Do you believe in practicing gratitude and manifesting and the law of attraction? And if so, has that helped you attract more in the life you want? I'll tell you the part that's counterintuitive for me. So every day I write down something I'm grateful. And almost everything I'm grateful for is silly. Like to me, it's like I'm grateful for electricity. I'm grateful for water. Yeah. Hot water. I don't think that's silly, man. Yeah, those are the ones I really love because it's available and it's not realizing how great life really is for all of us.

32:21I mean, if you're able to watch this, life's probably pretty good. Yes. It doesn't make me feel good in this moment or you don't have the money, but that's also something you could change. In terms of having, candidly, I don't think I always felt worthy. Of what? Of having certain things, like having a wife or having a partner or having a kid. and even with Facebook and stuff like that, I felt like, well, Zuck fired me. I'm not worthy of having a business. Really? Yeah, I felt like, oh, this guy knows something better than I don't. And I think a lot of us feel that way. Like, oh, these other people have these things.

32:51Am I actually worthy of this stuff? And how do we, you know, you talk about gratitude and vision. I think everyone can spend more time just being grateful for themselves. And how do we just actually give more kindness to ourselves? So one thing that I work on, anytime I'm kind of criticizing myself, it's like, all right, let's say one nice thing. And it kind of, what's crazy is you do that enough times, I was like, criticize, nice thing. Criticize. And we are literally the meanest people in the world to ourselves. Like, you know, your worst friend is yourself. And so how do you change that relationship over time?

33:17And now it's just kind of like, throughout my day, I'm like, dude, good job. Like, hey, you hung out with Lewis. Great job. And the more that we start doing those things, I think that's a way that, yes, you can manifest other things. But it's just really, how do we work on being nice to ourselves? And that's really helped over time. So it sounds like you were pretty self-critical and you didn't feel like you had self-worth or feel like you were worthy for a long time building AppSumo. Yeah. But you still built an$85 million business, feeling unworthy, feeling underqualified, and not fully loving and accepting yourself.

33:47Is that right? Yeah. On a scale of one to 10 of self-worth, where would you say you were for most of those years, the first 10 years of building AppSumo? Yeah. One being you have very little self-worth and don't believe you're deserving of any of it, the money, the success, the love, and 10 being you're deserving of all of it. Where were you for most of those years? Literally until probably the past year is just very low. Like, it's still, let's talk about the book. No, no, no, this is good. Man, probably until literally like two years ago. Maybe fours, threes, fours. Threes and fours. Yeah, like I was getting partners that liked me just because that's what I got.

34:30And then with AppSumo, I think I had this fear I'm going to ruin this business. So I try to pass it off and not do it. And even with this book, I had to go through my own journey of, okay, I'm going to hire Tal Ra, one of the best business writers in the world, and I don't have to face myself. And when all of us face these hard things in life, whether it's writing a book, whether it's a relationship, whether it's starting putting yourself out there a little bit, and you face some of the fears, and you start just even small, the smallest thing. And you're like, maybe I am worthy. Maybe I can do these things.

35:00and with AppSumo, when the previous CEO quit and I came back to work, I definitely was like, I'm ruining this business. I'm messing. And I did make a lot of mistakes, but I just stayed with it and I had great people around me. And so over time now, I'm like, and I get feedback. One of the easiest things that anyone can do to improve right now, really literally right now is text someone, how can I get better? Whether it's in your relationship, just ask your partner, whether it's at work as an employee or as a founder. And so it was just through working with people, getting feedback over time. Now I'm like, pretty good at this.

35:27I used to always, this is i haven't really talked about this it sounds small i used to always call myself chief sumo because i never wanted to be a ceo i never thought i was the right leader and in the past 18 months two years now i'm the ceo and so maybe for others out there how are we labeling ourselves yes and what are maybe small steps not that i've been big like i have to go some dramatic thing that i can just do that makes me feel good about myself yeah that moves me in that direction same with the relationship where i didn't i went i worked with stephanie rig she's a woman out of Australia great on Instagram really great content and a lot of what we talked about was like what are you doing that makes you feel good about yourself like you drank last night how did that make you feel like you're doing this type of activity like you're going on this date with a girl you don't want how that make you feel like you're showing up now with my partner mafe it's like how am I showing up for her am I actually aligning my priority to my behavior and every time I do that I'm like like I cooked her some food two weeks ago I was like I'm proud of myself I'm glad I could take care of you yeah I'm really proud of myself.

36:25And all of us feel these different ways. It's not like some exclusive club where everyone's always feeling happy. But it's doing things that make us feel good about ourselves that, frankly, it's all within our control. I think over years, you realize it's not external validation. It's like, how do we get more of the internal validation? That internal person that's like, hey, I'm doing pretty damn good myself, and that's okay. Man, this is beautiful. I'm so glad you're talking about this. Have you seen the movie Creed 3? I've seen one or two. I don't know if I've seen three. Creed III was the most recent one.

36:56Anyway, long story short about it, Adonis Creed, he's that world champion in all these things. Has all the money. He's in the Hollywood Hills, like living the dream, you know, most famous guy in sports or whatever it is. And he's kind of depressed. He's like not boxing anymore. He's not like just kind of sitting around depressed.

37:20and someone from his past comes into his life out of prison, right? Someone from his past comes. And there was some darkness that they both went through, which caused this person to go to prison that Adonis, the main character, never faced. And he was kind of always running from his pain, his past. You talked about facing yourself. I'm curious, what was the thing that you had to face that was the hardest thing in the last couple of years that allowed you to have more peace and more freedom in yourself and around money, love, and relationships? Different things, man. It doesn't happen all at once.

37:55Like even taking Million Dollar Weekend as an example, you know, I've worked for Zuckerberg. I helped start Mint.com. Like I've started so many different businesses that have made millions of dollars and I still felt afraid. Like, can I put a book out there that people actually want? And can I actually even help them? And so I thought by hiring someone who's like the best around the world, I cold emailed him. Like, can you work on me with this book? He's like, sure. And so I paid him money. And I was like, okay, good. At least I don't have to do it. I don't have to face myself to see if I can actually write a book.

38:21And then as the book got closer to having to submit the manuscript, as you know, it goes, I was like, this is not, I have to face myself with this book. I have to see if I can really do it. What did you not face? Actually writing a lot. We wrote the book together, but it was like, is this the book that I want to put my name on? Is this a book that I can say, Hey, if you're trying to start a business, there's some things about starting, building and growing that I can help you with. and so I had to face the book I had to face myself and actually writing the book and yes I worked on it you know lightly but at a distance and I think a lot of us do that it's like okay well let me avoid that thing let me avoid the relationship let me maybe avoid the work and so then I basically like I don't know if I call it hermit mode but basically like sat in my room and more or less for about a month just like heads down worked with beta readers and then I was like working on the scripts and all these things and I was like slowly and then I was going with people so every week and we have five people going through the book.

39:12I had a guy living at my house about a month ago. And through doing it, I was like, oh, I can do this. I can do this. This works. And we all feel that. We all feel that in a lot of different ways, maybe in a relationship, maybe it's with work, maybe it's with ourselves. And so kind of this concept lately I've been really embracing is like, what's the hard thing I'm avoiding and how do I go into that? So I voted the book for a while of it. And then I was like, no, I'm going to go full in. Same with Absinthe CEO. I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to do it. I wanted someone else to do it and same thing when he quit when I was on a bike ride I was biking across America and he quit and uh I didn't want to come back and one of my best friends was like well who's paying for the bike trip I was like absolutely no he's like well you should probably and the guy who's running it doesn't want to be there so I came back and had to face that and you know the same experience like it's surprising how much we're afraid of things and when you finally do it and like it wasn't as hard as I thought right and I'm much more capable than I realized and that's true for everyone Right.

40:10And it's just thinking about what these things are. Wow. What's been scarier? Recommitting to owning your CEO role in a business that you helped build, coming back to that and taking ownership? Or getting out of a relationship that wasn't working to enter a new relationship and now have a baby on the way? They're both insanely hard. Both insanely hard. Yeah. Yeah, AppSumo is definitely some of the hardest work I've ever done. And I would say by being an entrepreneur, though, I feel lucky. I feel like it's the hardest thing, but this is the part that I think I'm assuming you can resonate with. The things that are the hardest for us are also on the other side of that, the things we're most proud of.

40:53We're never not proud of ourselves when we do something hard for ourselves. And I'm really proud of my work at AppSumo where I'm like, damn, I'm showing up. And so for everyone out there, whether you're doing YouTube, whether it's religion, whether it's sports, whether it's a business, Like, how are you showing up or in your partner? And the same thing with my partner where it's been a challenge. You know, I'm flying to Spain. I'm staying up till 10, 11 PM to work Spain hours so that I can be with her. And now that she's pregnant, it's like, okay, am I really showing up in the relationship for what she needs?

41:21And that's lately, it's been awesome. It's been, I'm happy to show up for those things, but it's been, it's been a journey to get to that point. What's the biggest thing that's shifted inside of you since knowing you have a kid on the way?

41:34around your habits around your business around time allocation yeah and everything okay this is this is the one that's going to be the that's not what you're expecting it's how much respect to have for moms uh-huh shout out to all the moms dude the mom's like wow dude it is tough it is tough uh that's been one of the biggest holy because we have now we have four or five moms at absumo that are moms already and they're pregnant moms i know and what they go through that's been i have a you know i think in life you have to understand or go through things to have more empathy for that yes and so i have so and you know it's been so hard on mafe and i admire how strong she is i don't think i can handle what you're going through so i definitely have a lot more admiration for working moms or even stay-at-home moms like staying on mom is probably one of the most underappreciated jobs in the world and that's been probably one of the the bigger shifts i think a lot of the things i mean probably the other side of that maybe from a professional side is also like okay what's really my priority right what's really my priority am i saying is absolutely my priority is my book already is youtube and it's like no my family and that honestly i didn't know i was supposed i was allowed to have a family wow what do you mean you weren't allowed to have a family i don't know dude did you just think you're supposed to have kids i just thought like you know kind of even business like am i allowed to be rich am i allowed to have a great family and you talk about manifesting envisioning i just didn't know that i was allowed to have these things did you not have a good family growing up?

42:57Yeah, pretty good. Yeah. But you didn't think you could create a family. Yeah. I thought I was supposed to have it by 30. And when it didn't happen at 30, I was like, I guess it's not supposed to happen. And that was tough. And it comes back to feeling worthy of ourselves. And so I worked with Stephanie Rigg. I go to therapy. And over time, I'm like, oh, maybe I can actually be with a great partner. And I would say, professionally now, it's just how do I really prioritize? Because I've started a business, I have the opportunity now to say I can control my schedule to really be there for my family.

43:25and that's that's different it's like okay I need to finish work at six and I need a if she needs me to call or whatever it is she needs to take care of like I need to be prioritized to be available for that I mean I'm assuming you were very similar to me that we there was no off switch when running our businesses for a long time it was all day all night all night or sometimes it was you know you're at dinner but you're checking your email sometimes it's you know your business is life You know, it's like, I'm assuming that was for many years. Until I started to create more healthy boundaries in the last few years, and really like, okay, I'm still working at night sometimes, I'm checking, but it's not this obsession, I'm having more boundaries.

44:06Where do you see yourself now with a child on the way, allocating time and energy? If you have an 80 plus million dollar business that you're the CEO of, that you've got 70 something employees or more, that you wanted to keep being at the same level, if not grow, year after year. Yeah. How do you see yourself creating a healthy lifestyle, being a great partner, being a great father, being a great CEO, and in 20, 30, 40 years, saying the same response of, you know, I hope my kids respect and love me when they're adults and want to spend time with me. Yeah. What's your views on how you're going to map that out?

44:50I don't know how it's going to play out. I think all I can do is show up. Yeah. Right. All I can do is show up. And right now my priority is, is Mafé and the baby. And so just showing up for her and whatever she needs. The other part of that is if that's my priority, then you have to deprioritize other things. Interesting. And so how am I deprioritizing the book and YouTube and not say I want to give it up? Cause I, I think one of the comments I would say is I get, I love my work. Yes. I love it. I like, I'm up late because I get to and not have to. And I think that's available for everyone. and right now though it's do I have the right team in place do we have the right budgets kind of boundaries in place do they have the right scorecards each person has a scorecard of three things so they know what they need to be doing yes and then I can back off right like you know my youtube channel fly to Monaco or we fly to Switzerland or go into the streets of New York or we go to houses in California and knock on the doors I don't want to do that because I want to be there for my family okay doesn't mean I have to give up youtube just means I have to change the kind of videos I do.

45:48So it's also just adjusting that I'm available to prioritize what's my priority. The thing that, a simple thing that Moffat is like, we're going to bed at 9 p.m. You need to always be there. And I want to have dinner. I want to hang out with you before that. And so now it's basically six o 'clock. It's done and been in bed by 9 p.m. Really? How's that like?

46:08You know, she says I'm sometimes on American time. I'm like, 15 minutes. I'm just finishing up 15 minutes, you know. Two hours later. Yeah. you know i've been people are like i wake up and i do all these morning routines like i've had i've been as just successful with with those morning routines as non-success as as successful without them right i think sometimes there's an over-optimization of how we're living it's figuring out what works for you and i will say though um it's made me like take more time more intentionality about how i'm actually spending my day like do i really want to spend like if i can only do so many things today like what is the real few things that matter.

46:43And being okay that like, I have a painting I haven't put up, there's scratches all over the house, pool of stuff is broken. And it's like, well, I have to get my work done and I want to spend time with my family. And being okay that there's other things that are going to go by the wayside for the time being. Yeah. Wow. Someone on your team is here, your videographer, and he was saying that one of the questions he would really like to ask is, he's seen you mature emotionally over the last couple of years in a big way. and he was curious about, you know, how you've emotionally matured around money and how therapy has supported you in this growth.

47:19Yeah. Curious what your thoughts are on that. Biggest lessons you've learned that have made you more emotionally mature. I feel like both of us have had emotional maturity over the last few years. I still remember our times in New York that were, you know, 20-year-old times. And now we're 40-year-old times and it's adjusted. Yeah. I, you know, I go to therapy every month, Dr. Resnick. And I think one of the, I would say the biggest change for me is stop chasing externally and stop looking externally when all the things are internal. That's the only real difference where I have enough. You know, I was talking to an entrepreneur, oh, Ali.

47:59And he said, someone gave him advice. Oh, you need to get to$10 million in sales. You need to get to a million subs. You need to get, you need to be doing these things in life. And it's like, no, I don't. I don't need more money. I don't need more subs. I have, I actually, one of my counterintuitive things, I want less ambitious goals. I'm not trying to race. I used to try to race. Right. And when you race, guess what happens? You get tired and you burn out. Wow. So create less ambitious goals, but stick with them longer. And so I think that's just created a lot more peace in my life because I'm not rushing to compete with other people.

48:28I'm just competing with myself and I can be proud of what I actually get to do. Yes. So that's made me more calm overall. and just like you know kind of what you said like taking a step back zooming out be like if you look at most of our lives like it's pretty freaking awesome yeah and just actually being acknowledging that and i think so many times we're looking at and we're like oh i don't have this it's like what do you have and it's like so many of these other things it's awesome not comparing to other people it's hard not to compare i think jealousy is great i think i know but i think jealousy envy is great, at least from a directional standpoint, because you're like, do I really want this?

49:05I haven't shared this. I used to be jealous of Ramit, one of our good friends. Oh man, he's like doing that. And then jealousy is a great mirror for yourself to then recognize like, okay, what is it about that that maybe I want or don't want? And then just get to that conclusion for yourself and make that decision for what you want. Actually, do you want that life or not? And that's okay. Um, Joe, you know, Joe Hudson sounds familiar. Oh, Joe Hudson's fire. He's fire he has a thing called connection course highly recommend sure I've done it with my brother to connect better I've done it with Moffat to connect better and one of the things he says about life and something that as you're talking with other people just say and that's okay and I love it I lie sir and that hey you want to be more famous by what you really want and that's okay you're okay where you're at great and that's okay yes and it just kind of is like almost relieving just relieving and that's okay we're not trying so hard for other people we're just trying hard for ourselves.

49:58Yeah. I love that, man. What has therapy taught you about money? Remember how much time, how long is the episode? I mean, I literally went to therapy for two years to buy my house. To buy your house? Why? I didn't feel worthy of having my house. Really? Yeah. So how much money did you have? How much net worth did you have? Yeah. And you still didn't feel worthy with that much money? Probably liquid 10 mil. Uh-huh. And then Absumo's worth, nine figures like 100 200 million so you had 10 million liquid you got a hundred million dollars you know in terms of equity in a business yeah you know you didn't feel a few hundred million and you didn't feel worthy of owning a home i'm trying to buy nice things yeah i mean but i'm trying to relate to the audience because i don't want them oh boohoo you poor rich like you know that's not but we all feel you know insecure in different ways and if you don't fix the insecurity when you don't have money having the money is not going to fix that you are it might have some added benefits you can pay more bills you can take care of health challenges easier you can speed up conveniences things like that but it's not gonna make you worthy you know I tell you fix the worthiness insecurity inside of us so and so therapy is like I remember with Facebook I got fired and then I went to therapist and I was like I'm so sad I'm not gonna get rich and it's also kind of a kind of crazy concept because it's like there's you can get rich in other ways like this is not the only way and um well she said okay let's let's do an experiment so let's write down all the things you really want if you got rich i was like okay i want an m3 this is like years ago when m3s are cool right i was like i want an m3 okay right how much is m3 50k okay i love a house this is in california and houses were like a million okay a million okay what else first class yeah first class school okay okay let's put that down all right so how much is that one and a half million do you think you're gonna be able to make that kind of money in next few years yeah ten years next year a few years yeah maybe you're doing okay right and so it's just kind of actually having that list of things we actually won life like one of the things that was important for me was my freedom number what's your freedom number my freedom number and everyone has one is what's the number you need to actually live a life you want and it's always less than people think and so after that experience I realized I just want to get to three thousand bucks a month if I can actually get 3 ,000 bucks a month I don't need these house any m3 but I don't have to work for anyone ever again and never have to have a boss which I don't want to be anyone's boss and I never wanted anyone be my boss and it was three dozen bucks so it's like I'm just gonna keep swinging I'm gonna keep experimenting year after year after year until finally 2010 I mean six years after living college that I was finally able to get a business I was like oh I can I can do this it finally can work then you were a boss I was I wouldn't say I'm anyone's boss most of you were an employer I'm an employer at a company but most of the people don't listen to me.

52:54Most of the people at AppSumo, and even at Facebook, I would say the best teammates and people at Facebook and at AppSumo, the best people are the ones that don't listen. I know that's kind of - If they don't listen and they're getting results, they'll be like, great, that's awesome. If you're not listening, then you're screwing everything up, but we're like, okay, you know. No, and when I say not listening, what I mean by that is like with YouTube, with Jeremy or with AppSumo, we have Sean, Alona and other people, as well as with TallRawz. The best ideas are forged. and so Tal Raz fought me on everything in this book I mean we fought for the best that's great to finally and then we had that's great yeah and that's what I'm encouraging people yes where it was like these people just don't listen in a good way shouldn't be about your idea should be the best idea winning but we all think we're we all think we're smart right we all do of course everyone thinks we're smart and then it's nice to be around people that are challenging your ideas right yeah challenge it then show me you know a game plan and take action and get results yeah or it fails and you try something else.

53:49And so coming back in therapy, I still go, you know, should everyone go to therapy? Yeah. I think it's great to have some outlet that's a non-biased person that doesn't give kind of a crap about you for a hundred bucks. Right. For a hundred bucks, they'll like to listen to you and then provide like some reflections. So when did you realize that you actually were worthy of love, of being rich, of having nice things or buying a house with the money you've earned? When did you realize you were worthy? I was in Barcelona and I was just recognizing my own life I was working with this woman Stephanie and I was just kind of I was outside there's Arc de Triomphe in Barcelona and I remember being outside journaling on this iPad feeling like wow like what a cool life I created actually finally recognizing my own life and ever it's like thing back in the last 20 years and all the different things ups and downs the sadness of what I've done to the the ex-fiance how I've created this company that I finally get to live, actually live my dream and just kind of, you know, being able to reflect on all of that, um, help me accept it and just enjoy it.

54:53Like, Hey, money is great. I know people say money can't buy happiness. It's definitely made me happier now. Finally being able to embrace it. Once you love and accept yourself and believe you're worthy, then money can buy you additional happiness, but it cannot buy you happiness. If you feel unlovable, you don't accept yourself and you don't face the challenges and the pain and the sadness that's within you. then it's just more sadness because i make this money yeah but i'm like still shameful about who i am yeah it's still chasing it's still this external side and so with stephanie it and and it's the simplest thing it's just day by day yeah like do something for yourself do something that you're proud of for yourself like back in the day we had this thing called gebby it's me and my buddy adam uh from my body tutor basically gratitude exercise breakfast you and if anything it's just like just how do you do one thing for yourself each day do you feel good about yourself maybe it's in a relationship.

55:43So for me, it was like, all right, I'm dating these women. I have a, I did have a goal. I was like, I'd like to have kids and I'd like to have a real partner that I'm getting what I want. When did you realize you wanted to have kids and a partner where it was like a harmonious relationship? When did that come about? It took, it took years and it took years after breaking out the fiance, it was like back and forth with her and then work with Stephanie. He was like, I really did have to close the door in the past. And there was a visualization of I I couldn't swing to my next branch holding on to my previous one.

56:11Oh my goodness. You know what I'm saying? Wow. I was holding on because I was like, I like partying. Your previous identity, the lifestyle. Yeah. Wow. It was feeling more harmonious just daily. It was honestly like a daily practice. I really enjoyed being in Barcelona. I felt like, wow, I get to work on this business. I get to meet interesting people. And then it was directionally. I didn't know, kind of faith, what you were talking about with your stuff. I'm like, I had faith there's going to be someone out there that I'd eventually now start meeting. but I was being intentional about it. And I told the ex, I sent her a message like, I can't reply to you anymore.

56:44And that was hard. I was really... You closed the chapter. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure she was mad and all these things. I was like, I want you to find someone that is good for you. So it was still kind of lingering energy. It was like, okay, we're not together, but hey, how are you? And checking in and every once in a while... Waiting for a text. Intermittently. Yeah. So you made the decision like, hey, I cannot communicate with you anymore. Yeah. you sent that message yeah did your coach or therapist come and guide you in that or was that something with it yeah so she was like you need to send this message and I was like I'm not doing it so she was and and this is kind of a weird I would say hack for others if you do have coaches or you meet with other people I'd record my conversations with their permission yeah it's not secret listen back to it or I listen to myself and I noticed I'm like huh are you proud of how you're what you did with these dates are you proud of how your work is are you proud and then just kind of an interesting moment of reflection like when you do content, when you do anything, you get a chance to actually learn.

57:39And so through that, I was listening to it. And then when I was ready, it takes time for all of us. How many times has someone given you advice? And then you read the book or you listen to something and finally, like the 18th time, you finally accept it. And I kid you not, it was probably about four weeks later when I finally sent it. And then four weeks later, I met Mafé. Isn't that fascinating? I know. I know. I hate that story. But the key part, I don't hate the story. I love that story. but one thing that I've changed my perspective on based on you know what what Isaac was asking I believe I'm more optimistic and not optimistic because yes I'm things are good all this stuff but like how do you be optimistic when things aren't good and there's a book learned optimism phenomenal book and that optimism is a choice and so okay business isn't working out business we still have problems like I told you the YouTube team most of them quit yeah yeah AppSumo we still have partners complaining or different things happening how do you stay optimistic that do you think the future is gonna be better than today or not yeah I think it's gonna be bright yeah but that's hard even when things are going down and there's challenges and there's stress I'm like this is all happening in my favor for a brighter future that's tough though when it doesn't feel good man you know it didn't feel good yeah like many months this year I was going through a lot of challenges just like man there's a challenge here in the business and this person and this is challenging and revenue is going down and you know all these different things And I was like, you know, after, you know, a period of being frustrated, you know, internally, I was like, okay, how can I look at this in a way?

59:05Because being frustrated and stressed is not going to cause me to feel better. And it's probably not going to get me into flow and creativity. Yes. And I'm probably, you know, stressing my, you know, girlfriend, now fiance out or whatever, people around me with that tense energy. It's not like I was explosive or anything, but it was more like I just wasn't my happy self all the time, right? And I started to shift that energy internally and say, this is all happening in my favor. And maybe this continues for six months or a year. And knowing that I'm going to make sure I put my attention on it, I want to align the right people towards it, we're going to be figuring it out.

59:42And eventually we'll figure it out. Hopefully it figures out today. But if not, it's going to be figuring itself out and just take care of my health, my mindset, my attitude. I think that's really the only thing we can control is who we are and how we show up. I'm curious about this. Where do you think you'd be if you didn't emotionally and physically send that text of like, okay, I need to close this chapter with this relationship. Where do you think you'd be right now if you kept that door open, whether it's with that or any type of door from a previous thing that was kind of holding on to you?

1:00:19Where do you think you'd be? Do you think you'd be in a peaceful, loving, beautiful relationship with a child on the way, or do you think something else would be happening? How many times has something bad happened that turned out to be great? For me, every time. When people see New the Work, I'm always like, what's the work? You know, you hear it and you're like, do the work. I'm like, can you tell me what it is so I can do it? And I think the work is just really trying to understand ourselves, understanding what's going on. Like, do I want to live the way I've been living? And it's like, no, this is not what I want.

1:00:50I'm like excited to have a family one day. And so, okay, what is necessary for me to feel worthy to then lead to that kind of... So what was that thing that was necessary for you to feel worthy of a different life? financially, emotionally, spiritually, family, relationship? What was that thing? There's not one thing. There's not one day that I magically woke up because I meditated or something specially happened. I think it was literally like each day, can I just be a little kinder to myself? Just a little bit more generous to myself and then to others. Let's just take it piece by piece. I have noticed that when my relationship's going well, guess what else is going well everything else yeah and when one thing's going about it's like maybe these other things are going bad so let's start working on these different pieces of it but i feel like you've always been a very generous person to others like since i've known you you've always been generous giving like willing to jump on a call and say let me help with anything strategy or you need an introduction you're like that with everyone yeah so you're very generous outwardly to other people where you're not generous to yourself yeah generous with the money really yeah like i didn't really enjoy the money i told you i was like living in it i lived in an 800 square foot house that's falling down literally like cracks in the floor cracks in the walls and it's like and that's what i thought of myself this is actually kind of an interesting experience and i do want to answer your question but i'm trying to think more through it go back to your old life go back to three years ago i went to my old house uh about three months ago i was like huh wow this is what i thought of myself and your environment yeah it was a representation of what i thought i deserved and it's interesting for all of us like what we think we deserve do we deserve great families?

1:02:29Do we deserve great money? Do we deserve a great where we're living? And then you start realizing like, okay, what's really holding me back from that? And every time it's yourself. And so going through therapy, talking with therapists, talking with Stephanie, I wouldn't say it wasn't some overnight thing. It was just - It usually isn't overnight. It's usually a series of events and series of conversations, reflections, integrations, closing of chapters, practices. And then over time, it comes together. It's usually not like, oh, the first conversation I had, I learned to love and accept myself.

1:03:02It's like unwinding and unpacking things that caused us to believe we're unworthy. Yeah. And learning to finally integrate that emotionally and physically. Yes. With the present day, doing things over and over that show you that you believe you're worthy. Yeah. It's not just like, oh, I'm going to think about it and now I'm worthy. It's like, You've got to act on it. Yeah. Continuously. And usually when someone's like, okay, I'm going to let go of this old apartment or whatever, that is really serving my vision of what I want to be stepping into. So let me transition from this to the next thing.

1:03:35Let me leave a job that really isn't the vision I have. And I leave that and I don't know where I'm going to go next, but then magically something unfolds. It's when we leave a relationship. We finally say, I love you. I appreciate you, but this is not good for either of us. It's time for me to close this chapter. 100 % how hard that is emotionally especially if you've been with someone for years and you've already talked about the future and unwinding that is extremely hard but then boom something unfolds magically it seems like out of funny how that happened isn't it crazy i would also i was i was thinking how it's also experimenting yes like okay what if what would a great relationship can i go on a date and just see what a great relationship would be like maybe could i try and i told you like try nice houses see what that's like can i try first class and be like that's pretty good right and then you start feeling like okay what do I need to do so that I can feel more comfortable doing these all the time besides just the money part yeah and I think what the worthy was just day by day just doing things that I felt proud for myself yes like is my behavior making me proud like there's a lot of times where if I'm about to have a drink I'm like do you think you'll feel proud of yourself for making this decision and that's what I think a lot and sometimes it's like yeah have a drink great and other times like no let's not and I'm like good keep saying these kind things to yourself that's something that um I always think the word generous.

1:04:50And generous, I think people think of money to others, but I think of generous as words to yourself. And you can also be generous with words to other people too, with your partner or with people you admire. Generous to yourself, be like, hey man, you're doing well. Even if it's not great or you can get the success immediately, you can just keep doing it. And there's no one stopping it. It's unlimited. I know. How do you think someone can become more valuable in the marketplace, become more worthy of financial abundance, of making and earning more? What are some things they can do internally and externally to appreciate and value?

1:05:29Like to get a better salary or to start their own business? Either one. Yeah. I think the thing that I've always found the most fascinating... Or to create a great relationship or all these things, you know, just appreciating and value. Yeah. The thing that I've always come back to is how can you just go help one person? Like a lot of times on my YouTube channel or at AppSumo or with this book, Like, I don't just go help one person. I think we get, you know, when people want a business, they think about a million and they don't get the dollar. And when you actually help another person, you really realize like, oh, I have a lot more ability and capabilities really than I even realized.

1:06:03Yes. In the workplace, I think one, everyone should be an entrepreneur so that you have some control over your destiny. And you can keep your day job. We have a lot of entrepreneurs at AppSum. We have like Amy, she has a flower shop. Nick has a teeth whitening business. Olman's wife has a facial business. You know, they, and that's great. And so you can have that option. Within the company, I think it's really, this has been really fascinating. Like who gets paid more and why? Like how come an engineer makes 200 and someone in customer support makes 35? And it's within everyone's ability to recognize like what things are getting paid more for.

1:06:36And there's no limit that they can go do those other things. Like we have a lot of people in our company, like Matt Bean went from launch operations to now he's a product manager. Pretty cool. And there's all these people within our company elsewhere, it's like, well, if you want more money, there's no limit to what you can create. And so figuring out what is more valuable in a business and then how do you move up that chain? What do you think are the three most important skills for people to earn more money that they can develop? Number one is follow up. No one follows up. Just being consistent with following up.

1:07:08Bro, no one follows up. It's unbelievable. I like deleting people's emails just to see what happens. I'm like, if they reply in a week, DMs, emails, texts, just see what happens. No one follows up. If you really want something, you follow up, you persist. So I'd say that that's one of the best things. Number two, I mean, coming back on, I would say it's how are they learning? What is their learning approach? I've seen different people that are like, yeah, I'm good. This is where I want to be. And it's like, well, you'll stay where you are. And I've seen other people like, let's take Sean, for instance, he's the head of revenue app Sumo.

1:07:38He was six years ago, our junior salesperson. Now he's responsible for 80 million. And that's because Sean kept learning. Wow. Right. He has different coaches. He's taking different courses. And I'm like, ah, there's something there with that. So you're following up, you're learning. All these skills are available for everyone. There's nothing exclusive. I'd say the last one is attitude. Oh gosh, man. I know it's something obvious, but it's like, dude, who's, it's been interesting to see the attitude of people, especially we've had hundreds of people work at AppSumo, YouTube team, all these people.

1:08:06I've seen a lot of different friends at companies. that's like, who's people, who's attitude? And I like people that have a solution attitude. Like, oh, this didn't work. What else can we do? That's huge. And it's not exclusive. Everyone can work on their attitude, no matter what, if you're starting your business, if you're as an employee at a company or whatever it is, in a relationship, whatever that is. Half my team is virtual and half my team is here. And Alexandra and Sammy who are in the office here, every day I walk in and they just have a good attitude. And for me, you have no idea how far that goes.

1:08:45Especially as someone who's got challenges. If you're the business owner, you've got challenges, fires you're putting out all day, and just different people you're dealing with throughout the day, decisions to make. So when someone is just consistently following up with a good attitude, even when they got challenges, they don't have to be perfect every day, but just like a consistency of a positive attitude, a solution oriented attitude. You have no idea how valuable that is. Yeah. How, how much people appreciate that. There has been so many times that I've played sports on teams where there was some incredibly freakish athlete, just like so talented, like just way better than everyone else, but had the worst negative attitude and it ruins the entire dynamics of the team.

1:09:30but you're like oh but they're so good but they're just bringing everyone down with their attitude yeah and the moment you remove that person or they remove themselves it's like wow there's this flow and this is like connection and there's this collaboration and there's just this you know progress that's more effortless when you remove one person with a negative attitude or they remove themselves for whatever reason yeah it's incredible i'd rather have a team of people who would just have solution-oriented attitude than like the superstar, talented, technical engineer or like graphic designer or video editor with a negative attitude.

1:10:08All day long. You can do so much more with positive attitude. I always talk about like the three things we look for are attitude, energy, and effort. It's like if you can be consistent with those three things, you've got a place here. You know, and those are all things in your control. 100%. They're all in your control. And if you have a learning mindset as well and you keep growing, then the earning potential just keeps going up more and more. So faster. Yeah. Man, I love this, man. This is powerful stuff. I don't know if this is what you were thinking about. No, this is the opposite of literally of what I was thinking we were going to talk about, which is, it's good.

1:10:39It's like, I like getting outside of the, like our auto narrative. Yes, yes. But I don't think it's unique in the sense that we're all going through our own different challenge. Like everyone, you have your own personal life going on. Everyone watching has their own, like I've got a family and I'm struggling and maybe I'd like to be an entrepreneur or I've got a day job and it sucks or I want to get a job. and you know we're all going through it exactly we're all frankly the real answer is we're all figuring it out we are man and so it's been it's been a journey that I'm happy to share and I've been fortunate to be able to figure it out at 40 where I'm at then figure it out at 60 or 70 figure it out we're still figuring out when we are once you have your kid and you know the relationship dynamic that's gonna be like I don't do anything what do I do now right yeah but I think one of the things that's cool is there's so many other people that have figured these things out or at least have gone through what we're going through.

1:11:25So it's been super cool having the baby that I call up friends. I'm like, well, what outfit should I buy? Well, for my baby mom, I was like, yo, what's cool clothing for her? So this week I was buying cool clothes for her or I'm talking to my business partner and he has a baby and I'm like, what apps do you use? And he's like, oh, Wonder Weeks. You got to check out Wonder Weeks and The Bump. And so I have these apps now. I got to check these out. Oh, Wonder Weeks. I mean, I'm not. Yeah, let's get you there, dude. Now I'm like team baby. Let's go, everyone. Once I'm ready, I'm going to be hitting you up.

1:11:52Dude, please. You'll have like a year of experience by that time. Oh, I'd love if people have kids out there, they babysat kids and they have comments or feedback. I'd love, I'd love suggestions. Give your parenting tips below. Yeah, man. So that's been, but there's people out there that have gone through it and like, same as AppSumo, who's these coaches that have already gone through it. And so there's been a lot of people that we've asked for, for help. I've got a few more questions I want to ask you, but I want people to get the book Million Dollar Weekend. I don't know if anything we talked about here is related to the book, but get the book Million weekend, the surprisingly simple way to launch seven bigger business in 48 hours, um, packed with battle tested entrepreneurial strategies.

1:12:32You know, I think it's interesting because probably when you wrote this book, you were thinking about, okay, what are all the tactical things that I did and other people have done that they can actually launch with strategy and game plan and goal setting and team and delegation and optimization and all these different strategies, which are time tested and backed. But a lot of these entrepreneurs, they are successful in that, but then they forget how to love themselves, love other people, have a healthy relationship with self, feel worthy and deserving of the success they're having, manage the success without overwhelm and stress.

1:13:06Like there's all these other emotional things that we need to learn once we create that, if we don't learn them before. And I'm glad you're talking a lot about those things right now. Now, speaking of having kids and billionaires, you've interviewed a lot of mega millionaires, billionaires who do have kids. And I'm assuming some of them have regrets around not being there for their kids as much as they would like to or not being as emotionally available, focusing more on the business than them. And then there's others that maybe did it really great and they showed up for their kids in a beautiful way and they built their business in a big way.

1:13:44How do, without being a parent yourself yet, but interviewing a lot of parents with a lot of money, what have you learned from rich people with kids on how to not ruin their kids with access to a private jet, with access to unlimited money, with access to the best private teachers and everything, and, you know, just without spoiling their kids? How do you raise conscious, loving, generous, healthy, kind humans when you are mega rich? Yeah. I'll find out. I'll tell you. What have you learned from people you've interviewed? Yeah. I mean, I'd say the number one thing is how are you leading by example in all aspects?

1:14:24Yeah. So how are you showing up yourself? Are you... And I heard a story where these rich people hired a nanny and then the kids never even saw the parents. Wow. Are you doing the dirty work? Are you doing the dishes? Are you showing up for it? Are you just outsourcing everything and not showing up for your responsibility? And how are the parents treating money? Because I think if you earn money, which I think everyone should have a chance to do it, which they do, and you have access to be able to have help, to get groceries, to buy whatever things you want, and you shouldn't do that. You should definitely do that.

1:14:54It makes your life easier. But I think it's figuring out what are the parts you really want to impact on your kids, and how are you teaching them that by doing it yourself? And so that's something that with Moffay, it's talking about, like, how do we want to, do we want to have a bunch of staff? I'm like no we should both of us have agreed like let's do the hard work in the beginning and then we figure out okay where is it we don't need to always do these things and we can hire help around that sure sure so that to me is how we're looking at it well I think most other people probably have been so focused on this money and I remember with mafia I brought her to my house it's a two million dollar house it's gone down because the markets going down you know maybe it's one and a half by the time you watched it I remember brought brought her to my house and she goes in the door and I'm like when I I've brought over dates in the past.

1:15:34It was a very long time ago. I'm like, look at this house. I'm the man. Look at this house. Look at this. I have a photo of me once you walk in, you know, right there. And she didn't give two sh**. And I was like, what the f**k? I did all this work. You're supposed to be impressed. She's like, and I remember, and I asked her about it a few months ago. I was like, you came over to my house. You didn't give two, you didn't care about it at all. She's like, I just care about who you are. Wow. And I was like, what? You know, I was like, I gotta do all this work. And it was a beautiful moment of just for all of us.

1:16:02that's beautiful like who are we without any of these extra things right who are you as a parent who you as an individual how are you showing up for as a partner in your business and your relationship at work whatever that is and that was a great moment i'm very lucky to be with someone like her wow that in parenting i have a great partner in that and then how am i showing up that just as a dad and i asked a friend of mine i was gonna say how do you how do you be a good parent it's i feel there's people who had great parents and they go to therapy there's people bad parents go to therapy and all these things yeah the friend was like it's hard to say how that's going to happen you just have to give a and that's it um and that's it just show up leave by example give a these these kids and you can't really control all the other outcomes of this stuff but if you're doing that uh you're doing your best around it that's beautiful what's the thing that you say you're most proud of of yourself in the last few years that you've done or overcome.

1:16:57I think not hating on myself so much, not being so critical around all these things has been a huge breakthrough. I'm very proud of this book. I'm insanely proud of it. That's why I have no problem going and talking about it because I've worked my ass off with Tal. Like at first I was afraid and this is everyone out there. Like, what are you afraid of? Let's go into it, do your thing, realize you're capable of it and be like, I can do some things out there. Being a partner and showing up for Mafé, which is like what are you actually committed to what are you actually committed to and when you commit you show up and so I'm very proud especially now that she's pregnant like how am I showing up as a partner for what she needs beautiful man like am I up when she's puking at night right or whatever it is that you know she needs food or a thermometer or different stuff to take care of her wow that's beautiful man so yeah I'm really proud of myself and that's taken that's taken a long time maybe 20 years wow man yeah to be able to get to that point and that's not an overnight thing that's like doing these little things each day for myself showing up for her and over time now with all these things they've come together uh nicely what's the thing you love about her the most

1:18:05she's kind i always the thing i generally think i'm like she's really hot on the inside

1:18:14yeah she's she's so kind and i think we all have to unlearn some of our older dating relationships uh and i mentioned it to you earlier where i would do things and i'd always feel in trouble i don't know if it's some childhood thing or whatnot but i was me too i always feel like oh i'm in trouble here and i remember there's one day recently this is about two months ago before we found out we're having the kid and she's like you know i'm on your team wow you probably never heard that no i never have what's that feel like having a teammate

1:18:46it's funny my first thought is unworthy like I know I know it's still like something to work on it's not you can have two thoughts we can all can it doesn't mean you there's oh no I'm feeling jealous so that's bad no guess what go to the next one yeah it feels lucky I feel very lucky to be able to feel good about myself to be able to be with someone who is just also like such a special person like holy how did i find this other person that um i feel like yeah i can be a great partner for her too wow it feels amazing you've been doing the work you know consistently and you've had to close certain chapters of an old identity yeah to allow you to step into a new identity and a new chapter but if you were hanging on to another branches because you're afraid to let go and jump into the next one you know it's still you wouldn't have this it wouldn't be available.

1:19:37It's like, how do you believe when it's scary? How do you believe and be optimistic? There's a great job out there, a great business out there, a great partner out there, great self. And I think some of that is also that it's not really out there is the problem. And I think especially entrepreneurs were like, oh, well, I need to go outside and try to do this stuff. It's like, how do we just spend... It's like, how do you spend it inside and not chase the outside, the validation of these things? How do you spend it inside? What do you mean by that? How do you spend it inside? How do you work on just being at peace with yourself?

1:20:07How do you work just accepting like, hey, I don't know these things and that's okay. Like I'm doing my best as a partner. Maybe I make a mistake and that's okay. Right. And just kind of continually kind of going through that process now at this place. And Isaac was commenting and I feel more calm. I don't feel like, okay, I don't have as many subs or I don't make, I'm so happy with how much money you make. I'm so happy where I get to live. I'm like, this is great. And that takes time to be able to get to that place. Yeah, a lot of times we see people spend money on the outside to try to make up for what they're lacking on the inside.

1:20:36Yeah. That's why we see that a lot. And you weren't spending on the outside and you weren't spending on the inside. You were living in an environment that was crumbling and you weren't investing externally because you didn't feel like you were worthy. Yeah. And you weren't investing internally to feel worthy either. Yeah. It seems like you've been making steps to do both. I've been in the same boat where, you know, I lived on my sister's couch for a year and a half. And then I had just like my first apartment, it was$400 a month. And I was like, I went a couple of years without a car. And I was just like, okay, let me be as frugal as possible because I don't want to be broke again.

1:21:11Let me save as much as I can so that I'd never go back to feel like I need to rely on anyone else to live. Because it's not a good feeling. Not being able to take responsibility for your life. Yes. and needing someone else, especially as a 25-year-old, living off your sister or your brother, right? It didn't feel good. And so I had to learn how to overcome that fear. I remember I was like, it wasn't until, I mean, for like 10 years probably, I was like, how can I get the cheapest flight, middle seat, back row, like multiple connections to save that extra$200, right? And like just a better seat on a flight or something.

1:21:47I had to really unlearn those things as well I'll be like, okay, but my back feels broken. I feel like my knees, I'm sitting like this because my knees are against the front. Like, let me invest in a little bit more comfort so that I feel better and I can deliver when I get off this plane or whatever. I never would get a hotel room. I was always like, I'm not paying for a hotel room. I'm going to stay at a friend's couch for years because I was like,$250 a night for a room? What can I do with that money? It took me a long time to be like, no I deserve having like six inches of leg room you know I'm a tall guy yeah I deserve having like a comfortable bed and and like having a hotel room when I travel and not just begging to crash on someone's couch to save an extra$200 a night like it took me a while to like I learned that what helped you feel that you started feeling worthy of deserving these things I think that's like such a powerful you're right like to tell all this stuff you have to feel like to have a million-dollar business I feel like you also can deserve doing it and getting I think I felt guilty too.

1:22:48It's like I didn't find my, buy my first home until this year. I've lived in two bedroom apartments for the last 15 years essentially. Right. And, um, which is not a bad thing. Like I was comfortable. I liked it. It was like convenient. It was flexible. All these different things. But I think it was always, it was always like feeling guilty. Like, you know, I have this money. I should be giving more of it away. I should be helping more people, which I give a lot away already. But I was like, you know, do I need this? just because I can afford it, do I need it? And I have a really nice two-bedroom apartment, which is a good environment.

1:23:22It wasn't like crumbling. So it was always like, okay, do I need this? Should I invest in this? And I even had a conversation last week with my therapist about investing in stuff that I don't need. I'm like, I was going back and forth on, I have this really nice home that has been like a dream home that I want to live in for the next 10 plus years. It's everything I want for the next decade of my life with kids, with family visiting. It's like a sanctuary. And I was like, okay, but I kind of want to have like a couple pieces of gym equipment, but they're expensive. Like having a treadmill in like, but I don't need that because I have a gym membership.

1:24:03Then I go to the gym all the time. So I don't need to spend more money. And I was going back and forth for like a couple months on this. I was like, ah, it's like a big investment. in and it's like but I but she was like okay yes you don't need it but do you want to have the environment that saves you time that optimizes your time so you can help and serve more people yeah I'm like yeah but I can take 20 minutes and go to the gym you know but she's like yes and you can live in abundance yeah they don't have the money so it was overcoming that fear of like yes I do deserve it if that's something I want you know and I'm not doing it to be flashy.

1:24:40It's doing it to like optimize my health and my, have more time and invest in that, you know, that, that, that value of habits around health, you know? And I was kind of like, yeah, I just never want to miss an opportunity to take care of my health. And this will give me that, you know, if the gym's closed or I can't make it, I'll never have a, you know, excuse. So it's just learning. I'm constantly learning how to do that at different levels. yeah because I'm still like yeah I don't need to do this like life is good I don't know it's a constant it's tough I mean I would say that what I've observed in business as well and typically in business is where I've learned about myself the most and it's a lot of fear we're just all a lot of us especially people starting businesses are afraid and so you're afraid of feeling like we deserve now these things yeah and it sounds kind of crazy doesn't as you say it out loud like oh do i deserve gym equipment do i deserve having crazy yeah it's a little crazy crazy and the reality they have a gym membership and like that's enough yeah and and i think for a lot of people out there that maybe it's a relationship maybe it's a business maybe it's something else it's like what can you do that you're a little afraid of maybe not a big afraid but like a little afraid that you can practice like we've done the coffee challenge you heard this coffee challenge is something that if you're afraid of asking which is one of the reasons people haven't had success, you ask for a discount when you buy coffee?

1:25:59I ask every day for a discount everywhere. Do you really? Everything I buy. Dude, my man. I ask discounts. I say, what's the chance you can give me 10 % off? Everywhere. On a piece of clothes, a coffee, whatever. Maybe not every day, I'm exaggerating, but frequently. And my fiancee watches me do this all the time, and she's kind of like, what are they going to say? But now she's in on it too. It's good. Because I'm like, hey, what are they going to say? No? Okay, then you don't get it. Exactly. No ask, no get. it. And so with these things of feeling like we deserve stuff, how do we face some of the fears?

1:26:31So there'll probably be challenges like, can I ask for something, get rejected and realize, oh, and I can ask for other things that I want in life. Right. Don't you have this thing in the book called the creator's courage? The courage in general and the creator's courage is like, how do you keep facing fears? Yes, constantly. And in small ways, it doesn't have to be some, I have to go and do videos on the street or I have to go like - I'll be speaking or something. Yeah. Or change my job. Can you do something small? Put yourself out maybe on social media, Ask one person to be your customer. Ask someone if you could do something like to mow their lawn.

1:26:59And maybe like, hey, if you like it, you can pay me next time. And so it's doing these small activities. Maybe it's the coffee challenge. It seems like you're an expert in it. That you can do that's available to anyone worldwide. But you can start feeling a little bit more courageous. You can start thinking like, what else can I do? And that's the thing a lot of times for holding us back. Like I felt I wasn't afraid of starting, which is what most people are. I wasn't afraid of asking. But that's where the book actually focused on. I'm afraid of feeling like I deserve this stuff. Yeah. And so it's working on that.

1:27:26Like, okay, let me try treating myself to something and be like, maybe you got a Rolex. That's kind of cool. I was like, kind of like it. Getting a nice bike. I remember that I finally got a nice bike and I was like, felt kind of like bad. Like, oh, I got it. I know, man. Dude, I go back and forth. But it's feeling like we are worthy of these things. I go back and forth on this. My friend got me a Rolex, one of my best friends, for my 40th birthday. He was like, I want to get you something nice, right? And so he got me a Rolex. It wasn't like a$50 ,000 Rolex, but it was a Rolex, right? I see you're wearing one.

1:27:55and I've only worn it like three or four times. Yeah. Now, part of it is that I kind of just wear the same outfit every day. You know, you're wearing a T-shirt. I wear the same, like, I don't know, $50 shirt every day. I mean, I have multiple of them and it's like the same few different shirts and the same pair of jeans, the same pair of shoes pretty much every day. Okay. And so part of it is that I don't want to be flashy ever. Yeah. Also, it's like I don't want people to think that I'm better than them or that I'm too flashy. I don't look at you that way with where you roll it. Something within me, it's like, I'm the most well off in my family.

1:28:34I've made the most money in my family and I'm the youngest of four. So it's like, okay, I don't want to show off also. How can you enjoy nice things and feel proud of them, not like 100 % bad or guilty or something like that? Why do we take ourselves down? I don't know. No, no, but it's interesting. We take ourselves down because we feel like we're not supposed to. Right. And it's interesting. This Rolex I got because when Mafia got pregnant. And so I bought three of them. And my two other friends have pregnant women. Wow. And so we each have matching Rolexes for our kids. And it's something that I used to feel kind of like, I'm going to wear a cheap watch.

1:29:13I used to not even wear watches, but I'm going to wear a cheap watch because I don't want to be flashy. But then I was like, why can't we be more proud of ourselves? There's even some arrogance. I'm the greatest and clearly I'm talking about how I'm unworthy. Like I don't like, you know, I'm doing, I think things I'm really proud of and I'm proud of finding an amazing partner. And then that she's wanting to be the mother of my child and I get to be a great partner for her and do my best for that. And so I am, I wore it out because I'm like, I'm proud of her. I'm proud of myself. That's cool, man.

1:29:38And so that is what this means to me. Yeah. And so it does, it's not again, you know, worthiness doesn't, it's not some magical thing you can hear and be like, well, today I'm worthy. It's just like, let me do some small thing that makes me feel good about myself today and maybe do it a few times today and then do it tomorrow. And continually over time that adds up to where it's like, okay, yeah, I'm proud of what I've done and I can tell other people about it and that's okay. Yeah. Your child is 18 going off to college. You're 49, almost 50. Let's say you're 50 at that time, right? Your child is going off to college.

1:30:14what is the thing that you want your child to be most proud of about you over these next 18 to 20 years that your child witnesses and experiences from you as a father as a husband to their mother what's the thing you want them to be most proud of when they go off to college if that's what they choose to do i was writing my girlfriend today and i wrote like you're uh you're good mommy and I was like oh like that was kind of wild just to realize this is all coming true and like these great lives are out there for everyone and it takes time it takes time to be patient and acknowledge that for my daughter I hope I have a daughter it might be a boy but uh I still I love probably a little bit less um what do I want for them what do you want them to be most proud of about you and how you showed up for them, your wife, and everything you go through, your business, your life.

1:31:17What are you one of the very most proud of? I have my best friend, Adam Gilbert, I really admire him as a father. And he said this to me, and I'm copying it because I think it's a great approach. He's like, I never want to say no. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, if they want to go play soccer, if they want to play basketball, if they want to go to the park, I always want to be a little person. And that's what I like. that when my kid knows when they're 18 as well as 10 or well as 28 that I was there. And my dad had his own experiences when I was younger where he didn't show up. And I just want to be there.

1:31:50They're like, there's never a no. That's cool, man. It's beautiful. Landar weekend. Make sure you guys get a copy. We didn't even talk about that. Make sure you guys get a copy if you want to learn all the strategies about it. I think it's cool, though. You talk about how to make time to run a multiple seven figure business, a YouTube channel, how to have a healthy relationship, all these different things, how to find your freedom number. This is really interesting because I think a lot of people don't know what their number is. So how do you find that freedom number and just say, oh, I don't need to be some massive, financially rich person.

1:32:26I can strive for this thing, which will give me everything else I want. Yeah. I always thought it was risky to have a day job. I just thought it was so risky. And I met this guy, Jake, recently. He's got three kids. And he's like, I don't want to live a what if life. I never wanted to live this what if life where if I didn't try the thing, I'd regret it. And people have had these ideas of, I'd like to make a little bit more money, or I've had this idea, Jake wants to do golf trips. And it's like, I don't want to spend, he spent two years thinking about it. And in one weekend he was able to get it going and change his life.

1:32:54Yeah. Try it on the side. And so it's like, how do you get out of that what if life? And my idea as a book is that people buy it and take action for themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Don't buy it and don't not take action. Yeah. Make sure you get it and take the actions on it. If you've got some type of dream or goal or project you're working on or want to work on, make sure you get this and start taking action. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end of the interview. It's called The Three Truths. So imagine a hypothetical world. It's the last day on earth for you, many years away. You get to live as long as you want.

1:33:24You extend your life to any age possible. I like that. And you get to experience all of your visions and dreams in real time and they all happen with every area of life. But for whatever reason on this last day, everything you've ever created has to go with you. This interview, all your YouTube content, this book, like the messages you shared with the world, we don't have access to for whatever reason, hypothetical. But you get to leave one final message behind. That's all we would have to remember your information by. And I call that three truths. It's kind of your three biggest lessons. If you can fast forward in time to that final day and think about all the lessons you've already had and all the lessons you're going to have, what would be those final three truths for you?

1:34:15I have a belief that there's no such thing as legacy. And so if there's nothing that comes with you, then you should leave everything on the table here and not be so worried if people remember you. And so how are you behaving and how are you actually living the life you really want to live? So that would be one truth, which is just live the life you want to live now and no one's going to remember you afterwards. Elon Musk, by the way, no one's going to care about him a thousand years, 100%. So what life do you want to live? And leave it all out while you do it.

1:34:45Another truth, you know, people have heard of this, like how do you treat others? You know, that's a truth. I think I would say a truth I'd love to everyone is just send someone something nice today. just a text even, like a call, a DM, and have a little, you know, I would say just with that, just be generous. Like go and tell someone something nice. Right now, everyone can do it. It's available. Yeah.

1:35:10I would encourage everyone to be an entrepreneur. I got it. I would say, you know, with that in terms of everyone, you know, maybe not chase entrepreneurship, but just be who they are. Right. I think it's, we think we're supposed to be these other people and then really just being like, well, who do I want to be? I do think everyone should try entrepreneurship, but find out who you want to be. Don't chase that side of it. Just chase internally. Yeah. Like, oh, cool. I like these things and really going after that. Sure. It's beautiful, man. Before I ask the final question, I would acknowledge you, Noah, for the consistency over 20 years of creating, discovering, and overcoming yourself.

1:35:48Yes. I want to acknowledge you for being committed over the last three years to letting go of old things that don't serve and support a future vision that you want. Taking the courage and taking the risk to overcome that and let go of things that are scary to let go of, that are hard to let go of. I've been there too. And really having the emotional awareness to love and accept yourself. I think that's what I'm most proud of about you and acknowledge you for because a lot of people get praised for the business, the success, the accomplishments, and the money they make, the numbers they have. but most people will never, you know, it'll never be a headline in Time magazine about how you learn to love and accept yourself and feel worthy.

1:36:30And I think that's the most valuable thing you can do for yourself and those around you. So I really acknowledge you for that, man. Thank you, Jared. It takes the most courage of all to feel and love yourself. And I'm sure it's probably some of the hardest challenges you've had in the last few years going through that journey. It's lonely, yeah. And it's alone and it's yourself. And we all have to face ourselves in some way I mean, we can avoid it or we can eventually face it. Like, you know, this book or YouTube or relationships and you face it and you're like, oh, I'm probably better than I think.

1:37:00And I'm more capable than I realize. Absolutely, man. Love it, man. Final question. What's your definition of greatness? Oh.

1:37:12I think definition of greatness is that you're doing what you want. Like you're doing what you actually want. Like, what do I really want? You work your ass off. You work hard. And then you're proud of it. Whether you get the accolades or recognition of any of these things, you're proud of yourself. I think that's great. There you go. No, my man. Appreciate it, brother. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

1:37:53Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.