Top Neuroscientist: How To Heal Your Brain & Your Body With Your MIND (Get To The Root Cause of Anxiety)

0:00The self-diagnosing on TikTok and all of social media is really dangerous. with people saying, well, I've got that, but it's not something that you can have. If you haven't caught a virus, you haven't got a thing. So if we say, I am ADHD, then we're essentially embodying that experience, right? Exactly. Dr. Caroline Lee, cognitive neuroscientist. Since the 1980s, she's been researching the mind-brain connection. She's going to help you change the way you think and change the way you live. Dr. Caroline Lee. The mind is the most powerful thing. We are 99 % mind and 1 % brain and body. So whatever we do with our mind will wire in a network.

0:39Everything that we experience that's unexpected puts us into a level of anxiety. Anxiety is good in that it puts our body into healthy stress. When we really embrace it and face it, we then dive into the depths of our wisdom. What is the root cause of anxiety? And why do you feel like it has amplified so much in the recent years? So there's two ways to look at this.

1:04Welcome back, everyone at the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Dr. Caroline Leaf back in the house. Thank you so much for being back on. It's been, I think, over a year or two since you've been on. But the last couple of times you were on, people loved it, and we wanted to have you back on for this new book that you have, which is called Help in a Hurry. Simple tips for finding peace when you're overwhelmed, anxious, or stressed. and I want to speak about this, but there was a stat that I saw that I want to share with you and get your thoughts on. And this stat is from the National Alliance on Mental Illness.

1:37It said, anxiety disorders are the most common mental health concern in the United States. Over 40 million adults in the U.S., close to 19.1%, have an anxiety disorder. Meanwhile, approximately 7 % of children aged 3 to 17 experience issues with anxiety each year. Most people develop symptoms before the age of 21. This is from the National Alliance on Mental Illness. And I'm curious, your book, I think, has come at the exact right time needed because so many people in the world are dealing with stress, overwhelm, and anxiety, and they don't know what the root cause of it is. So I'm curious, from a neuroscience standpoint, what is the root cause of anxiety, and why do you feel like it has amplified so much in the recent years?

2:24Excellent question. Lewis, first of all, thank you for having me back on. It's always so great to be with you. And we always have such great talks and chats and conversations. So thank you. Yes. And I love your new studio, by the way. Thank you. Yeah, this is, just reading those stats makes you feel anxious. Yes. And so there's two ways to look at this. The one is, what are they actually saying? Because actually 100 % of people battle with anxiety. So it's actually bigger than what we see the stats. 100 % of people. Everyone battles with anxiety because anxiety is a very, very normal emotion. It's a warning signal telling us that something needs to, you've got to pay attention to something in our life.

3:03And where it becomes a problem is when we don't deal with it, when we don't manage it. And what's often happening in our current, the past 40 years, the focus on dealing with mental health issues has been very much one of let's identify the biological cause. Let's find the neurobiological cause. Where is it in the brain? Something's causing it in the brain. There's something in you that's wrong that's causing anxiety. And that's been a huge focus of research. And that's been, it's called neuro reductionism, where everything's focused around the brain. Now that in itself doesn't quite ring true.

3:42And And scientifically, it's been pretty much disproved, but it's the going philosophy. And it results in these kinds of stats that we see. Because what we need to do as humans is anxiety is part of being human. It's a normal response to adverse circumstances, obviously of varying degrees and different stages of our life and all that kind of thing. And dealing with change and being a human. And so when we manage it and see it as something that's giving us information and recognize when it's becoming disruptive and dealing with that, then it actually isn't such a problem. But when we are told that it's a brain disease and you need a medication and you've got a disorder, you wire in a perception into people that becomes how they see themselves and you feel kind of hopeless.

4:31So when you think, oh, well, I've got a brain disease, there's something wrong with me. there's something broken in me that makes things worse initially giving it a label or a name or saying you have a disorder makes people feel comfortable because ah that's why I feel like this there's a reason and that's really nice but then it's a gift that doesn't have anything inside of it you open it up and think now what actually and it backfires and that's what we're seeing that's what we see there is that when you suppress and don't deal it will then turn into something big and anxiety then shifts from being normal into something that becomes distorted.

5:07I've heard a lot of people lately have been self-diagnosing with some type of mental disorder, either self-diagnosing or looking for something wrong within them by going to a therapist and say, tell me what's going wrong with me. And then sometimes they might be labeled as being ADHD or having something going on. Is there any value in self-diagnosis or is that more harmful than valuable, putting a label on, I am an anxious person. I have ADHD. I have some mental health disorder. Is there power in that? There's way too much power in that. And it's very dangerous. And the research shows throughout the psychoneurobiological research, which is psychoneurobiological mind, brain, body research, which is the field that I'm in, which is is part of neuroscience shows that the mind is the most powerful thing it's we are 99 mind and one percent brain and body so whatever we do with our mind will wire in a network so if we look at all the tiktok social media self-diagnosis it's people on the one hand it's people trying to make sense out of what's going on in their life because life is so big and complicated and there's just so much that goes with it and it's so fast and it's and we didn't talk about it in my parents generation and now we talk about it but now we talk we've swung from not talking to talking about it in a way that over talking or putting it into the same model as a medical model so for example if you have diabetes or you have cardiovascular disease or an immune disorder there's a way of testing identifying a biological cause and then giving some kind of treatment that that is aimed at doing that when it comes to mental health when it comes to life we need to look at it differently so the self-diagnosing on tiktok and you know all of all social media is really dangerous because it's it's it's leading to people talking but it's people saying well i've got that but it's not something that you can have if you haven't caught a virus you haven't got a thing you're having a reaction to a life, whatever's going on in your life at that moment.

7:17So reducing it to a label narrows it down, limits you, and kind of locks you into a pattern. That's interesting because words really matter when we label ourselves. So if we say, I am ADHD, then we're essentially embodying that experience versus I'm experiencing ADHD symptoms, I'm experiencing extreme overwhelm, anxiety, toxic thoughts or intrusive thoughts that are harmful. I'm experiencing versus this is what I am, right? Exactly. When you take on that persona, your brain simply does what your mind tells it to do. Your brain is a host. Your body is a host. It's a host to what? Your mind. Your mind is where you are, your intelligence, your ability to love, the ability to have perceptions, to experience life, to appreciate a sunset, to have a conversation, to follow your dreams.

8:13That is your mind. But not only is your mind this psychological thing, it's also running your brain and your body. So it's controlling your heart rate. It's controlling your brain. It's controlling your genes, your neurophysiology, your biochemistry. So it's doing a lot of stuff. When you're dead, your brain just disintegrates, your body disintegrates, but your mind, whatever belief system we have, it's got this eternal component. So therefore, whatever we say with our mind, how we perceive, how we look at things, that is going to influence what it looks like in the brain. Because whatever we think about becomes, it's electromagnetic forces we generate, that then changes structures in the brain and the body.

8:52And then the brain and the body just follow the bidding of the mind. So if I'm telling myself, oh my gosh, I've got those symptoms. tiktok with swan says this and i've got that i've got that i've got that you then merge because your mind now tells your brain and your brain just simply merges with what your mind tells it to do so if you are for whatever you think about the most is growing so if i'm listening to that all day long adhd i've got that symptom i've got autism i've got this i've got this i've got this that merge you merge with your environment you wire that in and then you start believing it now it's contrary to who you are it's contrary to the wisdom that's in what we call the non-conscious mind.

9:27So it creates conflict. And that in itself creates anxiety, which is why we see anxiety being this distorted version of anxiety. The anxiety no longer is working for us, it's working against us. So it kind of shifts the process. So what would you say then is the root cause of anxiety for most people? The root cause anxiety is a signal. It's an emotional signal. And it's telling you that there is a something going on in your life that you need to pay attention to. So it's going to have a multiplicity of different sources so it could be a child at school and they've been bullied it could be starting a new business it could be in a relationship everything that we experience that's unexpected puts us into a level of anxiety anxiety is good in that it puts our brain into healthy stress and healthy stress sharpens all of our wits we tap into the when we really embrace it and face it we then dive into the depths of our wisdom and that's in the unconscious mind and that's we can talk about the levels of mind so it makes more sense in a moment so the cause of anxiety in people is facing the unexpected of life's full of all these unexpected things that happen and you can't predict them so all we have anxiety as a coping mechanism to help us to get into a high alert state with all our neurophysiology then operating for us and then we can move forward if we manage it if we know what we're feeling but if we're told oh that's bad and we're getting all this constant media information which we have for the last 40 50 years that anxiety is bad it's not bad it only becomes bad if you distort it so what does that mean like you ruminate on it you think about it think that oh i'm feeling this in me there's something wrong instead of saying i'm feeling this in me what is going on as opposed to what is wrong so if i think what what is wrong and i know oh at the back of my mind what's one of those labels oh, I've got an anxiety disorder.

11:22I've got something wrong with my brain. And I merge with that thinking. That will create anxiety. Then I can't think. Then whatever I'm dealing with in life becomes very confusing because I'm not thinking clearly. I'm thinking in a loop that is stuck between the conscious mind, which is really limited, and the brain just doing its bidding. And I get stuck in this loop instead of going deep and finding the wisdom. And that makes our anxiety increase because we don't have clarity of vision. So if I think it's a problem, I lose my vision. And then it becomes, and that's really the root cause, is we think something's a problem, and it could be, but we can find the answer.

12:00But if we get stuck in that loop, we get all confused and chaotic, and then the anxiety builds, and then it starts distorting. So then anxiety flips, and then everything in your body, all the stress response, which goes with anxiety, which is supposed to make you alert, now makes you confused. So too much of the good stuff. All the chemicals, like we hear cortisol, for example, is the stress chemical. We hear, you know, that's as though it's bad. Without cortisol, you can't survive. It's when cortisol is in the wrong amounts. So when I think anxiety is bad for me, when I think this feeling is something wrong with me, I then flip the coin on that cortisol and all the other, it never operates alone.

12:38It operates with all the other chemicals and it throws all that into disruption. And then it throws the energy balance in the brain and so on. And so that then makes us feel terrible. And that's what creates the anxiety. That's the root. And then you need to get beyond that to solve the problem. Because we can solve our problems, obviously with help, sometimes without help. But we can do a lot on our own. And I'm not saying we should do everything alone. We should always reach out for help. Does that make sense? Of course, yeah. And when people self-diagnose that they have a mental disorder, a mental problem, you're saying that's very dangerous.

13:10But what about if we go to a mental health specialist, a therapist, a doctor, and they give a diagnosis that we're ADHD or whatever it might be, is that helpful or hurtful? And what should we do next after being diagnosed with a mental health disorder? So that's really a good question. It's an excellent question. It'll make it worse because the thing that what we've seen from the research, and there's quite a few of our scientists that are trying to counter this narrative, and the narrative is that get your label, get your diagnosis, get your medication. And it feels like you're solving a problem because that's what you do if you have diabetes or if you have something wrong with you, go sort it out.

13:52And I'm all for sorting things out. But you don't need a label to sort out a life issue. You do need a label if it's cardiovascular disease or something because that's dealing with physical symptoms. But when we deal with stuff that's happening in the mind that does affect your physiology, which I've mentioned already. It could be an invisible disease, right, or an invisible symptom. Well, that's the thing. It feels invisible. That's because we don't understand the mind. But we've got this thing that if I feel it physically, it's more important than what I can't feel physically. But we've got to shift our perspective on what do we feel physically.

14:26If you feel anxious, you feel terrible. If you feel depressed, you feel terrible. If you feel guilty or jealous, you don't feel great at all or whatever it may be. If you feel any kind of overwhelm, you don't feel good. So your mind, your experience, that's stronger than, that hits you first before the actual physical sensation inside your brain and your body. But we've got so consumed with the physical that we want to label it and lock it in. So getting a diagnosis from a professional is, and some people may not want to hear this, but it will make it worse. Because you've now got a professional sample.

15:02I mean, the professional said it. So therefore, so we rather. It's making it more real. It's making it more embodied inside of you. Exactly. But aren't there a lot of people that say, oh, I got diagnosed and now I feel better knowing what it is because I was just going crazy, not sure what was happening to me or why I was feeling stressed or overwhelmed or anxious. Now this medical professional has labeled what it is and diagnosed me as having this mental condition. And I feel better now knowing. But do you think, are you just saying maybe temporarily it could help people feel better? It's temporary, and that's what the research shows.

15:38But then you're living with this, I am this condition forever until you reverse it or change it or see it differently. Exactly. Well, a lot of the mental health professionals are trained in the fact that the brain can change, yes. But once you've got that, this is a mental illness that you have for the rest of your life. So very often you are told that you have this disease. and just the word disease and the word diagnose implies that there is a proven underlying biological or neurobiological cause. So when we use, it's the language that's being used. So when we say you've got cardiovascular disease, we can actually track it back to the heart.

16:16We can do the testing. When it comes to, I feel anxious. Lewis, you can feel anxious about something and I can feel anxious about something. Does it mean we both have a mental disease? No. No, it doesn't mean we have a disease, that means if I listen to your story, there's going to be a lot of stuff. If you listen to mine, there's going to be a lot of stuff and there's going to be different levels. And it's so complicated and so complex. But the word diagnosis, the meaning of diagnosis means that there is a confirmed scientific neurobiological cause. So when we use the word diagnosis, it feels so sciencey.

16:49But there isn't. In mental health research, not to this day, is all the billions spent on the genetics, studying the brain, studying have they found an actual chemical imbalance, neurobiological change. Even the research on ADHD, when they pull those three studies apart, research is coming out recently. There's been articles all over Apple News and Newsweek and everything about, hey, we've got to stop talking about ADHD as though it's an it. And 30 years ago, 40 years ago, my professors were saying in 40 years' time, we're going to have this issue. So we've got to be careful of the word diagnose.

17:26What's better, I'm awful going to a mental health professional, but the language used is so important. So instead of saying, hey Lewis, you've got an anxiety disease or disorder, there's something wrong with your brain. You're going to have to live with this the rest of your life. That's like a death sentence. I mean, it's awful. Rather say, okay, you are feeling anxious now. Let's talk about you know let's that's that's a behavioral that's an emotional signal there's four main signals that we manifest with daily all day long in different aspects and the one is our emotions and then the emotions where they the next signal is where do you feel those emotions in your body the next signal is how is this affecting your behaviors and the next signal is perspective how is this shifting your perspective so it would be better for me to say to you okay you're feeling anxious let's talk about now what's going on in your life, logical now let's talk about specifically what are your feelings at this moment in this time, right now at this moment where are you feeling it in your body how is this affecting your behaviours what is this doing with your perspectives now let's reflect on that and think of reflection if you look in a mirror you get a reflection if you shine a light through a prism it will come out as a rainbow So reflect means I'm now going to start looking for the depth behind this.

18:42So I'm not just, I'm going to find what is this attached to? Because if I just say anxious, anxious, sore tummy, lousy life for perspective, and I'm irritable. Those are my four signals. That is a bunch of descriptions. It's not a disease. We've got to be careful of tautologies. It's telling us, those are descriptions. It's information. It's information. Exactly. so what is it attached to let's find what it's attached to so now we've got to start digging what is the thought that it's attached to and a thought is an experience made up of memories so there's obviously a thought there's something going on there something's happened and your non-conscious mind which is your deepest level of your mind which is your wisdom it's infinitely huge and present past and future all mixed at once it's it's it's it's so fast it's faster than 400 billion actions per second operates 24 7 it's where everything that we need is stored and we need to tap into that more you can talk about it as your spirit level your whatever you want scientifically we talk about it as the non-conscious that will if you start going looking at how you're showing up with your signals you can start tapping into the thought that it's attached to and when you find the thought you can then start tracking a thought down the thoughts look like trees i mean i've got some trees over here and we know that trees have roots we can start looking this will generate these signals the emotions the bodily sensations the perspectives of behaviors, we can then take those signals and we can say, okay, let's see what thought this is attached to.

20:11We can reflect and start seeing the who, the what, the when, the where, the why, the how. Then we can start digging deep and say, okay, well, let's see what else comes up with this. Mindstorm this thing. Write it down. Get it out. Then you can say, okay, well, this is the data. Now we've got the data. Let's see. What can we do about this? What's realistic? Curious. Questions. Reconceptualize. Then we say, okay, what can we do now, today, to get you through today? and as you do that process that's a formula for how that's the based on 40 years of research of the formula of how stuff gets from the outside into us into our networks so we reverse engineer that by going from how we show up and reverse engineering back to the thought and finding the root and then reconceptualizing so you deconstruct that thought you deconstruct so you've now gone from oh i'm anxious and instead of saying yes you've got a disease of anxiety which well now what?

21:01You've taken that out the equation and you've said, okay, you're anxious. Let's do this work. Let's find out what's going on. Let's see what we can do. Let's empower you to now use this anxiety as information and find out where the source is and how can we reconceptualize, how can we reconstruct. That requires work. It's not a quick fix. It requires time. It requires effort. And I've done the research on the timing and whatever and how long it takes. But that's something we can do. so interesting because i don't think i ever heard of adhd until like eight years ago it was always add like growing up it was like this kid has add or has add symptoms or whatever and it feels like there's new terminology or new diagnoses every few years of what someone has or something new that they create you know whatever it is like they create literally it's great it's not it's not it It seems like we weren't born with ADD or ADHD or anxiety disorder.

22:00We weren't born this way. No. But we also can't pinpoint the exact moment that this person now has this diagnosis. Can you say the exact moment that the mind, the brain, the body, all of a sudden, now you're ADHD. No. Now you're ADD. Now you have some anxiety disorder, whatever it is. Is there a moment we can pinpoint? No, you can't. We can't. And so it's like, and so if we're diagnosing people with something, we should be able to undiagnose through a process of treating and healing the mind, right? Exactly. You said we are 99 % mind, 1 % brain and body. And it sounds to me like if our thinking and the way we think and how we perceive our thinking and how we feel about our thinking and how we behave about our thinking influences us into having a mental disorder, then we can also train the mind to influence us to healing our body, healing our brain as well.

23:01Totally. You've got it. Because your mind is the driving force. If you think of electromagnetics, that's what runs this whole studio. It runs the world. Electromagnetics is, we understand that in terms of technology. It's also your mind. We all literally have a field around us, And this is hardcore physics. This is not woo-woo stuff. This is hardcore science. So what can you explain what the mind is versus the mind and the brain? So here I've got a brain. It's not a real one. I mean, I should bring a real one in a bottle, shouldn't I? Okay, so here's the little model of the brain. And I think I had this one here before when we did our interview.

23:37But essentially, this is a three-pound organ that is, three-and-a-half-pound organ that is about the size of two fists. Not quite as big as this. and it's very complicated and complex, which it should be, but it's still a physical substance. So it's purely a host because when someone dies, when their heart stops, within 20 seconds, your brain flatlines and your organs shut down and your cells stop functioning. But we're alive now and we have got an ability to make over 800 ,000 to a million cells every second. While you sit looking at me, we are making 800 to a million cells every second and the quality of those cells, so we, being alive or making cells, I mean, that impact alone, if people just process that, we are making physical substance by being alive.

24:27Now, the quality of our interaction, the quality of how we look at life, influences the quality of those cells. We have 37 to 100 trillion cells in our brain and our body. Those cells make our organs, which make our systems, which make our body, of which the brain is one. So every moment of every day, we are kind of redesigning our body. So that mind is doing that. Mind is this big word that we use, and it's a word that's thousands of years old that was used by ancient wisdoms and mystics and spiritual teachers, and then it kind of evolved into spirit, soul, consciousness. But it's this mysterious thing that's actually not at all mysterious.

25:10In neuroscience, it's often called the hard question of science. I always think that's totally wrong. I always say it's the easiest question of science because, yes, we can cut up a brain. And, yes, we can look at the heart. And, yes, you and I are here physically. But that's easy to see. It's just as easy to see you, Lewis, and I'm Caroline. We're having a conversation and we're talking. And you have a life and you have a wife and I have a husband and four kids. And that's mind. The experiences of that's so obvious. The fact that we can get upset and happy and sad. And that's mind. and how when we feel happy and sad, that force of how we process it, how we react to situations, how someone gets in your face in a meeting and you want to punch them in the face or you find yourself people-pleasing or you find yourself faced with a crisis and you're dealing with it.

26:00That's mind, how you, your personality, your intelligence, how you love. That is that mind aspect and it's a driving force. When we do a QEG, for example, in our research, we are seeing that force going through the brain so for example we will when we pick up when we do a QEG yes it's brain waves but those brain waves are energy that are coming from the mind so first the mind is processing life and into like little clouds if you think of a circle around me imagine a circle around me and a circle around you that's our mind field however big it is it's sort of in this region and it goes through you every like our conversation now is first being processed by the mind into like little clouds and like droplets of water form a cloud every bit of detail that's coming out is forming into a cloud that mind processes that first and then it makes a copy of that and puts that into the brain as a neural network made of proteins and chemicals and then that also also the mind and brain together put that into the rest of the body so memory is stored in clouds throughout your brain and your body and you've got a world web we literally have a worldwide web between the cloud the copies of the clouds as networks and then net in our brain and then not networks in our body and so there's this whole network so whatever i'm doing with my mind is going to manifest in the host the brain and the body are the hosts so when i think something if i imagine the mind is a cloud around me right happy cloud hopefully you know big a big area with lots of clouds okay a big area with lots of clouds this revolving moving dynamic thing and each little cloud within this big area are what thoughts memories moments yes it's experiences you could some everything all of that stuff is details of the experience all the memories are the details so it's an experience made up of details is that your personality then or is that your personality is your perception of it but the experience like this interview is an experience every word are the the details of the experience So we're forming a thought of this interview and people that are watching are forming a thought and all our words are the memories.

28:09So think of the thought being an experience and think of the details of the experience being the memories. Thoughts are made of memories. Experiences are made of details. The experience is the thought. And all those thoughts and memories that are within this kind of sphere around us, within us, through us, influences the host, which is the brain and the body. Yeah. Because the emotions are stored within the body as well. And the thoughts influence the emotion, but the thought also influences the brain, which is creating the feeling of the emotion as well. It's the interpretation, right? It's the interpretation.

28:43It's the host. So if our mind is anxious, stressed, overwhelmed, then that electromagnetic field is influencing the brain and signaling the body to feel something. Exactly. It makes a copy. So whatever you think of it like step one, step two, step three. So step one, the experience comes into your mind and it's all this mind, electromagnetic field, cloud forms. That's the experience. And maybe it's a big, ugly experience. So it's a rain cloud and lightning going through it, a storm cloud. And then it's a beautiful experience. That's a beautiful, fluffy, pink and white cloud, whatever. So you've got those two experiences.

29:20Immediately, and it happens fast. This is happening at 400 billion actions per second. So it's faster. It's quick. So a copy is made. So your mind exposes it and then makes a copy, puts it into the brain, and the brain responds neurochemically, electromagnetically, on a quantum level, genetically, and builds. So as energy hits physical, a network is formed, and that network looks like these trees, basically. The tree is what? The trees would be a thought. Okay. So explain a thought again. What is a thought? If you can hold it up so they can see it. Okay, so basically the thought is the memories, and memories are the details.

30:00So people are building a thought of this interview about whatever they called it, mental health or whatever. And so that's the name of the thought. Everything we say is building onto these trees over here. One thought. Yes, one thought, because we're saying a lot of stuff. By the end of this conversation, we would have probably spoken about 4 ,000 details. Wow. So let's say that this tree here is the thought that's forming. The branches are all the memories. So a thought is an experience. Those are the synonyms. A thought synonym would be an experience. Experience, a memory, a moment, something you're thinking about.

30:37The experience is the thought. The memories are the details. So think of an experience as the thing. And then what is the thing involving? It's a conversation. and you're going to go and do handball. That's a thought. And as you, every experience, every little bit of, and that's the thought, but every bit of practice and everything around that experience are the details building into that thought. How many thoughts do we have a day on average? Well, anything from eight, we are aware of anything from 8 ,000 to 50 ,000 thoughts in a day. Thoughts. Yes, but we have trillions of thoughts because these thoughts, every single experience that you have from the moment you wake up till the moment you go to sleep, every experience is building into a thought.

31:21And that goes in your clouds, in your mind as a cloud, and then copies are made into your brain, copy made into your body. It looks like a tree in your brain and like a hedge in every cell of your body, every cell of your body with a different perception and it's a whole network. It's a world wide web. So is a thought that we have, you know, does that create a copy in our brain and then does that imprint in every cell? Yes. Wow. You've got to be really careful what to think about. Exactly. This is the part, and that's what the mind is doing. That's why we quote statistics as scientists. Like 35 to 98 % of physical illnesses come from our thought life.

32:03I think it's even more. I'd say it's 100 % from my experience. Comes from our thinking. Only 5 % are basically genetic that are handed down. so we and this is not to put blame on anyone because illness and there's also viruses and things that we catch and that kind of thing that go around and they can go in us but yeah physical harm that happens or we get yeah physical harm or whatever yeah stuff happens exactly yeah but we wear our body down it's not a thing of i think a toxic thought here's a toxic tree so that's a toxic one and now i'm sick or dead it's cumulative over time we what we do with and this is why this is what we need to manage because these things are contradictory to...