Trauma Specialist: Overcome the Cycle of Your Shame by Healing Trauma & Learning to Love Yourself!

29:25I was terrified. I thought I was going to die. Like, so the share. It was humiliating. I had shame. I had insecurity. Sharing it is the first step because the part holds it all by itself. The body, you mean? The part that holds the trauma. Once it shares it, it's like, oh, I'm not the only one holding this, or I don't have to be the only one that holds it. So the first piece is share the whole experience, Not relive it. Be with it. It's a big difference because we don't want people to relive their trauma. Not to re-traumatize themselves. No, that's right. It's not about re-traumatizing. It's sharing.

30:07Say it again. Not be with it? It's be with it, not in it. Okay. So we don't want people to relive it. We want them to share the experience with someone, with a loved one, with a therapist. And then this happened. And then this happened. And it felt like this. And my body felt gross. Or I was all tensed up. Anything else. Anything else. So once the experience is shared, then we want - That's step one. That's step one of transform. Okay? Second is we want a corrective experience. What does that look like? Neuroscience knowledge tells us we want to disconfirm the trauma. So I'm loved. I'm seen. I'm acknowledged.

30:55I'm important. Whatever this trauma is, we want a corrective experience. If someone watching or listening is thinking, that sounds great, Frank, but I can't find evidence that I'm loved. I can't find evidence that I'm worthy, that I'm thought of, considered. So when the part says, I'm no good, I'm unworthy, I'm not lovable, either the self says, I love you. Like I can see that little boy that was six years old. I'm like, I love him. So the corrective experience can happen internally. My adult now can say, you should have never gone through that. That was horrible. But if you've never learned how to love yourself, how do you tap into that love?

31:49That's the trust. We all have it. We all have it. Got it. Now, it also can come from somebody else. It can come from you to me. Like, Frank, I've known you for 10 years. I love you. You are, you know, and you're really talking to the wounded part. Yes. You're not talking to me. You're talking to the wounded part. So it can be somebody, you know, it can be trauma heals in connection. Yes. Because trauma is a violation of a relationship. Say that again. Trauma is a violation of a relationship. Is it a relationship with others or with self? Both. Both. We disconnect from ourself to survive and other people we disconnect from to protect ourselves.

32:32Okay? Wow. Okay. So this corrective experience is a relational repair. It's a relational repair. Even if the person's not there to repair with. Even if the person's not there, it can happen with somebody else. That's what therapy. Yes. Ideally, it's supposed to be a therapist saying, you know, or ideally it's the self. Like, I'm here now. I'm an adult. I heard what happened. You shared it. I love you. I care about you. And the part receives that. Yes. Or from, I've had corrective experiences with my kids. Yeah. When they've seen me in a way that I've never been seen before. Like, we have children to grow ourselves also, right?

33:11So you get that corrective experience. So once you've shared it, once you've had some form of corrective experience, and you can feel those moments. They're like, you've had a couple of them here. I felt it from you when you're going, like your body relaxed. You go like, oh, man. When something lands, that's a corrective experience. It hits differently. And it feels different. Right? So when that part that's traumatized shares its experience, then it has a corrective experience. Then it's like, I don't need to carry this anymore. I got what I needed. And somebody else knows it. So that's where release is possible.

33:51Wow. Is that step three? Three. Step three in the transform, then release is possible. And I say to people, let the part, let it go in any way it wants to. And sometimes people's bodies literally shake. Sometimes they're like, oh my, it's just floating up into the sky. It's just like the energy, it's an energy release. Yeah. I mean, for me, this is resonating with me because I feel like I've had a few of those energy releases in big ways over the last 10, 11 years. That's right. The first time when I opened up about being sexually abused when I was a child by a man that I didn't know. Yeah. And held onto it for 25 years without anyone knowing.

34:33That's right. And I let it go. It was like this release. Right. A few years ago, three and a half years ago, I was going through a challenging breakup. And I remember, and I was doing therapy for, I don't know, six months with it. Intensive, like five, six hours on a weekend, like, you know, experiential, just like diving into all the parts of me that were blocking my ability to love self. Yes. And create boundaries. That's right. That's right. And I kind of had this heart pain for years, a few years. I was coming and going. That's right. Yeah. In this relationship, kind of a tension and a ball feeling of pain in my chest.

35:10Yeah. Sometimes palpitations, sometimes it wasn't there. But I remember feeling it in this one conversation with my therapist. Yeah. And something all of a sudden clicked in my body. That's right. It's like something, and it felt like a pop. And it released throughout my body. 100%. It was the weirdest sensation. That's right. And I haven't felt that pain since that moment of release. of corrective experience and sharing it and witnessing it. And it's so freeing to let go of trauma. It's amazing. Freeing. Isn't it? Yeah. Like, because when, and I get chills, like you say that I could feel it from you and I'm feeling it for myself.

35:52I get chills throughout my body because there's nothing like, that's how you become you again. You don't change, you're not become somebody else when you release you reclaim yourself you reclaim yourself in this amazing way you do it's true and i love that you've you've had those moments like serendipitously because of the work you're doing i'm saying there's a method here yes if you do and i'm always watching those three i'm making sure those three are happening even if we're in a conversation so it can happen i want the world to know this can happen for you too it does you don't have to do 33 years of therapy like I did, like I'm a therapy lifer, right?

36:30It can happen. Like, this is the method. These are the steps. That transformation, you feel it. It's real. And you don't carry it anymore. You don't carry it anymore. It's like, you're like walking. It's like people who have taken antidepressants when they kick in, they're like, I'm different. I'm not depressed anymore. Like, it's kind of like that. When you release that trauma, you're like, Like I'm not in the world the same way anymore. Right? So that happens. Those are those three steps that need to happen for healing to occur. Right? The last of my four T's is now take back your power. This is take back your power, become you.

37:15You're more you every time you release something. and this is something I love to talk about which was totally new for me Louis around the death of my dad and the healing that I did with him I told you earlier about my mom and the like this healing moment I had with her when she acknowledged what happened and she didn't protect me towards the end of my dad's life he said something to me and I'm not gonna say what it is because it's like the big it's like the moment in the book where it's like oh my god it was an incredible moment. What a gift for me to have this exchange with him. It was the first time I felt love from him.

37:52Wow. And I felt love for him. Holy cow. It was incredible. First time. And this was two years ago. Okay. Not everyone gets this moment though. No, I was such a gift. I was like, I think that's why I'm here. And I think that's why I've went through this is because many people don't get that. You can still release without having the relational correction with the person. You can. You don't have to do it with the person. I happen to be lucky enough to do it with him, to have that. And I felt love for him, even after all that he had done to me. I felt love. And it was amazing. Talk about freeing, to feel love for someone who was brutal to you.

38:39It's like it was the most freeing thing I ever felt. It's like that didn't even affect me because I can love someone who harmed me is so powerful. It was like a drug to me because I was so beyond it that even what you did doesn't affect me anymore because I can love you despite of that. Is there ever power in not loving someone who hurt you or abused you as opposed to saying, well, they sexually abused me and they manipulated me and they gaslighted me for decades of my life and they really psychologically mess with me for 20, 30 years. I'm just going to love them, accept them for who they are and just, you know, not stand up for myself.

39:21Here's the thing. I love that you're asking that question because it's so controversial. And I know you had somebody on recently who has a different view on that. I'm going to be meeting with her soon. We're going to do an event together. Yes. Okay. Because Dr. Ramani, she just has a different view about this. And I love that we're going to have a conversation about it because differences are really important and useful. Yes. Okay. We don't need to stay in the us and them of things because we'll never heal that way. We will never heal. It's the and, 100%. So I think there are people that don't want to and they don't have to.

39:56It's not a requirement. you're this this piece that i'm talking about is is loving and it's not like oh no big deal it's when you've truly healed you're not carrying it anymore yes okay so it feels different and forgiveness if i use the f word forgiveness because people get really activated by that word is a choice and the thing that people don't understand and i didn't get it until a couple years ago, the forgiveness was me releasing what I was caring about my father. It's not forgiving his behavior. No, it's not condoning. It was, I'm not carrying the stuff about him anymore. Forgiveness was more about me than it was about him.

40:42Wow. People still have a choice to do it. Oprah talks about this, forgiveness, and Tyler Perry talks about this too, with all the trauma that he's gone through. So if you choose to, it's more for you. And if you don't want to, you don't have to. Some people are like, it was too brutal. It was too painful. I'm choosing not to forgive. And I'm like, that's okay. It's whatever works for you. I was lucky to have this experience that I never thought I would have to be able to love someone. I never thought I would love somebody who harmed me. And the thing that was even a weirder bonus was I started forgiving myself for all that I had done to my kids, to my husband, to myself.

41:31So my loving him, still knowing what he did, not forgetting that, allowed me to love myself differently. interesting because who hasn't harmed or been harmed right this is the us and them piece that i have a mission to kind of get rid of i know that's a big mission i get these i get i hear voices let me say that i hear voices a lot it's like love compassion love connection unity love connection unity bring trauma healing to the world i'm like shut up it was like stop you know um unity kept coming up and i didn't want unity to come up i was like oh that's a hard one the divide of us and them and the message was like unity unity so this was the divide is safer right it's so much easier wouldn't you rather be on one side and blame somebody else of the other so much easier.

42:36Wow. But now I'm free because I've forgiven myself for staying too long in relationships. Right. Oh, man, I'm guilty of that. Right? But so if you choose to forgive, you release what you're caring about the other person, but it gives you an opportunity to kind of release what you're caring about yourself. I saw this quote of yours. Yes. It said, trauma blocks love. Love heals trauma. Yep. Trauma activates an internal cascade of reactions that blocks love, connection, and creativity. And in turn, love has the power to transcend trauma, heal our pain, and reconnect us to our self, capital S, our source, and to each other.

43:21How can we... Is it possible for us to truly love ourselves and others if we're holding on to traumas? i'm gonna say we're not gonna use all or nothing and it's all degrees okay um i am so much further along in this process than i was 20 years ago was i able to do 40 of that 20 years ago probably can i do 85 90 now yeah am i 100 uh probably not ever right so yeah that that statement like when I hear that, I was like, oh my God, that's so powerful. Thank you for sharing it with me. I kind of feel like it's channeled information, honestly. And I've lived it and I've spent my whole career studying it.

44:08So yes, I think that's entirely possible. I do believe it. I believe it wholeheartedly. That's why I'm on this mission. I'm on this mission and I'm not the only one on this mission. That I'm very clear about. You're on this mission. There's so many, we're coming together in a different way. All these people are coming out of the woodwork. The people in the ivory tower are showing up in general public. We talked about this earlier. The influencers are showing up and these motivational speakers are coming together in this way because I think it's a collective. I think it's a collective to do this.

44:46I really do think it's possible and I'm not doing it alone, tell you that, but I'm one of the people and so are you that are doing this. I think it's totally possible, and I think that's what's going to heal. What do you think it takes for someone to truly love themselves? Is releasing the stuff that blocks that. The trauma blocks love, love heals trauma. Every time I wrote, I wrote Transcending Trauma, my other book during the pandemic, and I'd write, write, write, write, write, go for a run, write, go for a run. I'm like such a runner. And I'd hear trauma blocks love, love heals trauma, trauma blocks love, love heals trauma.

45:20I'm like, that is the truth. because every time I release... How do you love yourself if you're blocked by trauma? How do you get rid of the trauma? It's this cycle. It's the cycle. It's going through the four Ts that I talked about. It's going through that. And each time you release something, you've got more capacity. In the beginning, right? Each time you release it... You expand your abilities. You expand your ability. And it's like this cumulative thing. It doesn't happen all at once. It's not like a Hollywood moment. It happens cumulatively. and early on when you're super blocked if you can find some loving connection because you can help it's not your responsibility to heal me but your loving me helps me heal myself because love is contagious so if you are in a loving environment you can access yours and utilize somebody else's, right?

46:17Just as love is contagious, so is hate and anger. Yes, it is. That's why you got to really protect your energy and your relationship with people and do your best to shift conversations, move away from those conversations. That's right. And not get caught in that cycle of anger and hate as well. That's right. It's moments. Like life happens in moments and so does trauma healing happen in moments. It doesn't happen. here's something that you know i've heard people talk about it's like okay if you've had traumatic experiences yeah and you're a lifelong you know in therapy and psychiatrist like you've been in this work for every daily for 30 plus years or whatever how does someone continue to release without reliving and resharing the traumatic experiences so that it affects them so much some people say quit reliving it and resharing it all the time therapy doesn't work if you're always in therapy reliving it and you're not getting release and freedom then it must not be working that's right so how do we communicate it without being stuck in this well i've been there for 10 years then why are you still stuck and angry and resentful that's right and there's a lot of bad there's a lot of therapies that are not trauma healing therapies i was in i told you um 11 11 years five times a week during my residency that was a lot a big amount of therapy But it was the talking, telling the story without release.

47:49Interesting. Okay. The blood therapy, not release. I knew all about it. I understood it. I was stronger. You analyzed it. Yeah, I figured it out. I was stronger, but I was still carrying it in my body. Interesting. Yeah. So not all therapies have those qualities of release. That's why that transform thing I talked about, so important. Now, IFS is not the only therapy that does that. EMDR can do it, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. I've heard great things about that, but I've also, I mean, what's the difference between IFS and EMDR? And if someone is experiencing trauma in their life, what would you recommend first?

48:28Here's the thing. So there's sensory motor psychotherapy. There's Peter Levine somatic experiencing. There's a lot of different ABC. You know, everybody's got their initials, IFS, you know, EMDR. They've got their methods. They've got their method. There's probably six or eight trauma methods. Okay. And nobody knows this. When you go to therapy, you don't know. There's trauma methods and those should have a release component. Like psychoanalytic therapy that I was in didn't have at that point a release component. So I processed it without releasing it. Okay. So you weren't getting the full benefit of results.

49:05I was better in a lot of ways. I was able to come out, you know, I, you know, they did stuff. My life got better, but I was still carrying it. You were still holding on to the body was still keeping the score. The body was still keeping the score. A hundred percent. Yes. Interesting. Yeah, it was. So I want to teach people that there is a way to do this. And it's not just telling the story. It's not just reliving it over and over again. And a lot of people do that. Right. It is. There are these certain qualities. I started this year called the Trauma Institute. Okay. And it's an integrative center for bringing all the trauma modalities together, integratively bringing trauma healing to the next generation of therapists and to the general public.

49:51It's a mission for me. It's like I don't think one model is the right model. Everybody needs different things at different times. So let's pull this resource together. A lot of my friends and colleagues have made these models. And I'm like thankful for them to have made them. Thank you, Dick Schwartz, who made IFS. Thank you, Pat Ogden, who made the Sensory Motor Psychotherapy. Thank you, Gabor Mate, who makes Compassionate Inquirer. Bessel van der Kolk, who brings neuroscience. Dan Siegel, like all of them. Amazing things. Like it's time to put it together in an integrative way. And that's what I hope for the Trauma Institute.

50:27What is the core thesis of IFS? Yeah. And why is that something that you study and teach so frequently? Yeah, it was, like I said, I was in therapy a long time, a lot of different modalities. Did EMDR, I did sensory motorcycle therapy. IFS was different for me, first, because I grew up in a big Italian family and everything was about the group. The family. Never about the individual. Interesting. I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that. Right, right. And a lot of ethnic groups are like that. Not only Italian. About the group, the culture, and about the individual. The individual doesn't matter.

51:07The group matters. The family matters. So I grew up there, and it was so amazing for IFS to say, go inside. You have self, and you can access that to heal. So it was really powerful for me to reclaim me. So IFS says we all have self-energy, we're born with it, and it has inherent wisdom. We all have parts too. All different parts of us. How many parts of us do we have? It's, you know, I have a part that likes to run. I have a part that likes to travel. We have a lot of different parts. We have a lot of different parts. And there's positive parts and kind of wounded parts? Yeah. I love that you didn't say negative parts.

51:50Because everybody's like, bad parts, you know? I worked. There's no bad parts. Dick's book, No Bad Parts, right? There's no bad parts. We look at the positive intention. So some parts protect, some parts carry pain, right? I have a part that's a therapist. I have a part that, you know, gets really stressed out and anxious, you know? So we... What are the parts that protect? What are they actually doing inside of us? Well, they're doing these behaviors and symptoms. Drinking too much, over-exercising. overworking over overworking reactive angry resentful yeah protective yeah there beef and the only reason they take on those extreme roles is because of something overwhelming is it a sense of control is it a sense of protection what is the control and protection yeah control and protection when we say when we do something obsessive or a particular way that we want to make sure it's done this way and it seems controlling.

52:51What is that saying about us? It's saying, what it tells me about us is that I grew up in a controlling environment. In a controlling environment. I grew up in a controlling environment and I internalize control as a way to help. That's what it says. So someone thinking they're being helpful by being controlling. The part, it's like the part, like critic, let's talk about critics. Like who doesn't have an internal critic in some way? It's because you were yelled at or criticized. And then you're like, look how effective that is. I was the recipient of that criticism. I see how powerful it is. And then some part of us says, oh, I'm going to use that to control the kid in here who keeps crying.

53:41Because if he shuts up, then I won't get yelled at. Wow. Do you see that? So I'll suppress my feelings, my emotions. I'll do it. Shut up, you idiot. Shut up, you jerk. If you're quiet, we won't get yelled at. So we use what's in our environment protectively. And if we understand that, then it's a different relationship with the critic. Not hate your critic, get rid of it. Don't be critical anymore. Like who's ever stopped drinking because you just said, and for those of you who are old enough, like Nancy Reagan, and just say no to drugs, like, doesn't work. It doesn't work, you know? It's like, no.

54:20It's like, oh, where did you learn that? How is it helping? Oh, okay. I get it. Are you interested in helping in a different way? Right? Would you be, you want to work together here? We can team up and do it differently. Because these parts don't like the way they do things. They were forced to use what was in their environment. It's just a part of the tools that they know protect them. Yeah, that they had access to. Yeah, yeah. And when we're young and we come up with tools, like kids aren't good at raising themselves. Okay? But that's what they do. Right? They need to. Sometimes they raise their parents.

54:57Sometimes they raise their parents. Isn't that fascinating? Yep. What happens to someone who is maybe the oldest sibling that has to take care of their mom or father's emotions or lack of control or bad behavior? or they need to go work at an early age to support the parent. What happens to that type of person who experiences that in their life? Yeah, so they become a Harvard-trained psychiatrist. That's one of the things they do. Like, I was such a parentified child. Really? I was such a parentified child. I took care of my siblings. I took care of my mother. I was trying to manage my father.

55:35So they become therapists. They become health care workers. like when you learn that you have to caretake as a way of protection like if I manage to survive then if I manage you and you're drinking then you'll maybe take care of me oh man but that never happens it doesn't happen but it's just keep searching for that but it's like it's you're searching for right so if I take care of everybody maybe I'll be loved oh right so I be you become a consummate caretaker like huge right we have a lot of caretakers in this world and culture and society and they're like er doctors like there's so many places where people care take in an attempt first of all to focus on somebody else instead of themselves and secondly in an attempt you're gonna like me and love me and then then i'll get what i need If I take care of you, I might get what I need in return.

56:37So intentions are, it sounds good, of like, I want to be of service, which is a great thing and a great intention. But when it's I need to be in service with someone because then maybe I'll get love. That's right. That's right. Then you just keep doing, you're chasing love. Yeah, 100%. That's why it's called To Be Loved. Like, that was my whole life. That's why that title was so perfect. If I'm of service from self, it's not about me. It's about a bigger cause. I'm here to help from a different place. What is self versus what? Being of service versus trying to get something. Parts have an intention of protection.

57:18And that's the difference. There's a difference between I really do love. helping people when I have to in order to get worse, it's a different story. ooh then there's like resentment and frustration yeah and anger and then that's when you lose it on somebody like you know after all but parents do this you don't appreciate me for all I've done you know how much I've done for you you know how much I've done for you yeah exactly I mean that seems like a common theme for a lot of parents almost be for all parents that's right I feel like people can resonate with that where it's like yeah parents were frustrated with me because I didn't listen or I was rambunctious or I know I was like jumping out of the walls half the time that's right and you'll hear you know people say that my parents would say these things like, oh, after all I've done for you, you don't appreciate me.

58:07You don't, you know, you don't listen to me. You're just take advantage of me. That doesn't seem healthy, but what can parents do to realize, okay, kids are going to be kids. And maybe it's not this perfect world every day where they're like listening to me and quiet and patient and well so how can parents shift their energy to appreciate bringing life into the world as opposed to needing appreciation from a five-year-old right so what ends up happening and um dr becky somebody who i know i don't know if you know yeah i've had her on i thought you've had her on she's great she's so good she gets she's a big ifs aligned person too And so her parenting stuff is so solid.

58:52I love what she has to say. And a lot of it is parents often get activated about their kids' behavior because of their own stuff of their history. And my message is do your work so you don't say. And I've said it. Do you know how much I've done for you? I've said it. My parents said it. I used to say as a kid, I didn't have to be born. Like, that's what I would say to them when they would, like, shove this appreciation. When I heard myself say it to my kids, I'm like, oh, my God, this is horrible. Like, how painful to do what was done to yourself, you know? But when I looked a little deeper, like, if I behaved the way my kids were behaving, entitled and not appreciative, I would have gotten beaten.

59:41So I want to stop their behavior so it doesn't activate my own. To want to beat them or hit them or spake them. Stop doing this because it's too uncomfortable for me because it reminds me of my history. Wow. Do you see that? And so that's the cycle the parents are in that they're not aware of. So when you start doing this stuff to your kids, and everybody does it, unfortunately, then it's like, do your work. I have done more healing in my life through my children than anybody else or any other therapist. Like they have brought this stuff to my attention. You know, I started becoming my father.

1:00:21In the negative ways. In the negative. In the wounded ways. The wounded ways. And that was, that was shot me into therapy for the third time is when I had kids and I started yelling at them. And I was like, I grew up with this. The reason I had kids was to not, to give them something else. And here I'm doing it. And it was like when. What was inside of you that was doing it? Yeah, because. What was that? When my boys would fight, I have two kind of rambunctious boys. When they would fight, I can remember feeling panic inside. Because if I yelled and screamed like that, I would have gotten beaten.

1:00:56So every time they fought, my history showed up. Gosh. Instead of like, they're boys. Come on, guys. Let's behave. When you're not activated by your history, you're like, hey, you know what? We don't throw toys. if you're upset use your words like there's a way to react when you're not activated yes the anytime you lose it it's about your history when it's intense it's yours i think i heard maybe it's gabber mate that said um if it's hysterical it's historical that's exactly right yeah it's exactly right if it's hysterical it's historical yes that's correct because you don't know that because you're because it's like if you're seeing a situation two kids running around and hitting each other yeah stealing something from it and screaming and yelling about that and you're reactive yeah it's because you're triggered by an event yes that you haven't faced and processed fully yet correct from your past correct otherwise it would just be a neutral event and if it didn't happen to you or if it didn't trigger you you just say hey guys like break this up what are we doing you know it's like let's get to your room and and you take a break People don't know that and people don't want, they're like, it frustrates me that there's so many parenting, there's so many books about kids' behavior.

1:02:16There's not many books about parents' behavior. Dr. Shefali is another one. She's great. She's also very aligned in this, right? She's great, yeah. You know, she's aligned. Conscious parenting is powerful. Huge. And parents are like, these kids are blah, blah, blah, versus, oh, I've got work to do, unresolved history. How many parents do you think in America repeat the patterns of their parents unconsciously and have not done the work to create new tools to parent from a conscious way? Most of us. Really? I'm sorry. Most of us. I did it. It drove me crazy to be a trauma expert. I teach this for a living.

1:03:00People pay me money and I still did it. Bro. And it's because awareness does nothing for change. Really? Awareness does nothing for change? It's not like that. Not when it's trauma. Not when it's trauma. Because it comes up inside of you and it takes you over. Right? I'm like, I do know better. I had so much self-loathing every time I lost it with my kids. Afterwards, like later that night, you're like, what am I doing? Yeah, that's... I'm out of integrity because I'm teaching one thing, but I'm doing the opposite. Oh, it's so painful. that's where i got suicidal in my life really the time that's the only times i got suicidal was when i did what was done to me it was like i would rather be dead oh my gosh than perpetuate this i swear that's that it was so painful i'm like and people and i couldn't help people all day long because i was my history wasn't being activated so you could see it from a separate huge situation yeah give the best advice in the world yeah i know what the i'm like do appropriate for a living.

1:04:02It's ridiculous. And then yet I saw myself doing it. It was crazy. When did you start to shift emotionally? It sounds like the body was keeping the score for you when you had children and for those years. And you would do things that were out of integrity with what you wanted your highest self to do. And then you would beat yourself up and self-loathing and shame and guilt and resentment and all these emotions that don't serve yourself and becoming better so what was the process as a harvard trained psychiatrist and a trauma therapist for 20 30 years what was the process for you to get out of depression suicidal thoughts and overwhelm to be more of peace and harmony when kids would act out i just it's so i was like i was like you're on rinse and repeat frank like you just you're on rinse and repeat how many years of Like I just did a keynote recently at the network where I'm like, I'm wondering if therapy is the way to go.

1:04:59Like I've been in for 33 years. Like maybe it's not the right way. But it's more about like this way you get into resilience. I have been trying. I will never stop trying. I think we're here on this earth in human form to have difficult experiences. People will like to hear that. Sorry. sorry i think we're not only here to have difficult we could have loving fun experiences too yeah but i think from a soul level we're here to grow and evolve and if you you i've like the three i have my three r's you repeat it you repress it or you repair it okay so i've been one of these people i don't know why i'm one of these people who's constantly trying to repair constantly trying to repair, right?

1:05:50And this is what we do with every moment. We have a choice. We repress it. Most of us repress our trauma. We repeat it over and over again, or we repair it, take advantage of those opportunities, right? And now I never knew I was smart because I was criticized a lot. I'm a smart person. I know that. And I still did it because my history was in me. And now I don't, like, Like, I am so, my kids are 16 and 20, and my son, my oldest, can yell and scream at me like any 20-year-old can, and I don't react anymore. I don't. How did you learn how to not react, but also not get, you know, letting a boundary cross over where someone's going to...

1:06:36Like, you can't talk to me that way. I'm going to walk out of this room right now. That is really not okay. I'm not going to tolerate this, and I'm not going to engage with you when you're like this. I couldn't do that before. How did you learn to not let it boil inside of you and think, this ungrateful child I've given my life to? I didn't learn it. I healed it. That's what I did. I tried to learn it. I tried to learn it. So there's a difference between analytical understanding versus physical wisdom. That's right. Then the physical wisdom is releasing the trauma. The physical wisdom, I don't have to try hard anymore.

1:07:12Right, right. It's not in me. The trauma is not in me. I used to have this crazy startle. My kids, we'd have a trampoline in the backyard. One would jump on me from behind, and I'd freak out because of my startle. It was like a trigger, like if someone was a reaction. Yeah, it was like, like this. And I would say to them, like, hey, remember Papa said he was hurt when he was younger? That's why he reacts this way? Like, I didn't want them to take responsibility for my reaction, but I still had it. But you didn't own it and release it. I couldn't, I didn't really, at that point I didn't release it.

1:07:46You know, now I don't hold startle so much anymore because it was physical. It was a physical abuse I worked on early on and I released it. And now I don't hold the startle. It's funny. We watched Stranger Things with my youngest son. He loves Stranger Things. It's such a trauma. Talk about trauma. It's very dark. It's traumatizing. And my husband's jumping like a Mexican jumping bean and I wasn't. I'm like, I'm not, I don't have jump scares anymore like I used to because I released that. Wow. So it's like when you release it, you don't get activated by it anymore. So that's the point. Like I'm not done.

1:08:22I'm not done. But I am so much more myself than I've ever been in my life. And I can tolerate my feelings, other people's feelings so much more than I ever. Am I perfect at it? Hell no. But every layer that you release, you're more you. Yeah. And you're expanding your capacity for uncomfortable emotions. Yes. You're expanding the ability to sit with them, to witness them without being wounded by these emotions or reactions or overwhelming life experiences. What I told you with my mom, I'm like, look, mom, if you decide never to see me again because this is too painful for you, I'll handle that.

1:09:07I was like, that's right. It's not what I want. No. It's not what I want, but I can tolerate that because I'm choosing me and I deserve to be listened to, prioritized, and take, I love myself enough. I mean, I feel like there's a lot of people watching and listening that have probably experienced some type of challenge in family or relationships or whatever it might be where they have love and also frustration and hate with someone in their life, right? That's right. Family member, an uncle, a father, whatever it might be. Grandparent, whatever it might be. We all do. And my intention is never to break people up.

1:09:50Right. To get them to leave a relationship or end or create a divorce. That's never my intention. Yeah. Because I believe it is powerful to be family and connected, even if there's discomfort or frustration or someone doesn't approve of your life choices or whatever it might be. So how can people not say, screw you, you don't understand me, you frustrate me, so I'm going to tell you that this doesn't work for me anymore. I'm going to divorce you in this relationship, family member, friend, whatever it is. How can they cautiously communicate in a loving, appreciative way and create a boundary if someone doesn't want to receive that?

1:10:34Or they're not kicking them out of their life forever. So the screw you or kicking them out of your life forever is a protector. That's a protective response. It's a wounded response. I'm wounded, so I'm going to do this to you to protect myself. And we do that all the time. And that is a reactivity or the shutting down and disconnecting, the ghosting people and never calling back. You know, like those are those are setting a boundary from a protector to protect our pain, which is very different than what I did with my mom. I'm like, I love you. I was I was setting a boundary from self. I love you.

1:11:13I care about you. I want you in my life. I'll do anything I can to help you. If you can't join me for whatever reason, that's up to you. And I will deal with the consequences of that. But I love myself and I'm choosing me over disconnection to make you feel better. Okay. So that's coming from a different place. So we set boundaries from a place of love. Yes. You know, I organized a funeral for my dad because I wanted to. I wanted to give him a good send off, you know, and it was from a place of love. You know, you could say no from a place of love. Like, this doesn't work. That's what I'm doing with my kids now.

1:11:56It's like, that doesn't work for me. I'm sorry. I don't want to be yelled at. You're angry. I'm open to hearing about it, but not this way. Yes. When you're ready, let's talk. You can calm down or you can talk. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's from where it comes from. So the boundary is different when it's reactive. Yes. Or shut down because that's protective versus when it's coming from a place of love. Wow. You are the expert on trauma. one of the experts on trauma in the world today, it seems like a lot of people are oversharing their traumas online, right? Before they've actually gone through the four-step process and done the three things of transforming their traumas.

1:12:37And it seems like this trauma dumping is happening without a processing privately or with a professional first. what are your thoughts on people sharing their traumas online and should people share things that they've struggled with online is the right time to do it or people oversharing too much yeah it's a great that's the downside with everybody joining up to try to help when we all come together to try and help not everybody's doing it from the healthiest place right so that's one of the downsides what i say to people and even when if you want to confront somebody who's harmed you confront a perpetrator in any form heal first confront second heal first confront second because typically what you do once you heal you see the wound in your perpetrator that's what typically ends up yeah and you can i mean it's hot it's it's hard to hear this if you You haven't healed.

1:13:39You can see the compassion. You can have compassion for the complexity of what that person was doing. It doesn't mean you agree or say they're okay. No, you don't agree or condone, but you can see it. Like my dad is like, he was a wounded person. He had limitations. I could see that now. And the little boy inside of me was the recipient of someone else's actions. And this is not okay. And it hurt me. Huge. All of it's true. He tortured me for many years of my life. Yes. And it ruined parts of me. Yes. And there was anger and wounds that he put me through this conversion therapy and these things.

1:14:17That's right. And it caused all this pain in my life. But if you can step back and look at it, you can still see, at least I know where it's coming from. And I don't take responsibility for it anymore. I don't hate myself about it anymore. I don't even hate him about it. It was what was happening. And I wouldn't be sitting across from you right now if it wasn't for him. Wow. I wouldn't be. You wouldn't care about this work. I wouldn't be a trauma expert. Yeah. I wouldn't be helping people. So I have gratitude now. I mean, this is a long time. This is a long time. So I don't want people to feel bad about themselves.

1:14:54We're all at different stages. I've been 60 years old. I've been doing this since. You're 60? I'm 60 years old. How is that possible? You look like 40, man. That's because of healing. This is what I tell people. They're like, get a skincare line, Frank. I'm like, no, it's not skincare. It's releasing trauma. It's releasing trauma. I think I look younger the more I release. I think we all do, honestly. Because you feel lighter. I'm not carrying stuff. I'm not carrying it anymore, right? So yes, it's possible for people. Yes, you can do it. I don't want people to feel bad. The trauma dumping is sharing before you've healed.

1:15:29And you're going to - And people get a lot of attention. they get a lot of like validation and then they keep doing it from a wounded place. Yes. It's, it increases the us, them mentality. That's the thing that I'm like, ah, you're all good and we're all bad. Like, you know, but this early premature trauma dumping doesn't really help. Now I'm trying to create, I'm trying as I move out of therapy, therapy is great. Don't get me wrong, it's not enough to heal the world. There's limited resources. We don't have enough therapists. So I'm trying to bring this to the general public so that people, there are safe ways for people to do that.

1:16:10We're creating this part of what the Trauma Institute is trying to create ways. If you can't afford it, you don't have those resources, that there might be ways to do that. I'm really working hard on that, but trauma dumping is not helping, even though a part gets heard it does it's not done safely yes it's not done with permission if you trauma dump all parts of you don't agree to share the internal parts of the internal parts i say is everybody okay with everyone in alignment with this everyone in alignment just the wounded part of you right then you share from a different place when everyone's aligned so i'm i'm mixed about it Like, yeah, there's too many people showing up, doing it, I don't want to say the wrong way, doing it in an uninformed way.

1:17:04That's re-traumatizing. It's re-traumatizing. When you relive something, we know this from neuroscience, reliving reinforces the trauma neural network. being with it is the space to allow the transformation stuff to occur what's the difference between reliving it and being with it yes what is that i'll i'll give you an example like i'm so sick and tired of you you do this to me over and over again that's in it okay that's in it right and you could feel can't you feel the energy yeah and it's like it's like all of me He feels this about all of you. And all I'm going to... You always do that. Yes.

1:17:48I'm going to get... I'm not going to get... Thanks for sharing, Frank. I'm going to get a defensive response back. That's your natural instinct. I say, a part of me was so upset by what you did the other day. That really hurt me when you said that. Then you're like, oh, so he doesn't hate me. You ruined my life. I'm not all bad. I didn't ruin his life. If you're like, oh, that thing I did was harmful to him. I get that. You're much more likely to say, I get it. I'm sorry about that. Here's what was going on for me, right? So that's the being in it. It's so like encompassing and it's not effective.

1:18:28It never works. Nobody's like, thanks for sharing. Wow. When we're in it. Wow. And so it's the being with. Is it possible for someone to heal without a therapist, a priest, a psychiatrist who's actually helping them release their trauma? That's what I'm working on. You know, I'm not 100 % certain I want to do this. There's other people working on it, as we mentioned. I want to kind of create a safe way to do this because there's peer support things that are helpful to a point. Like one of the things I want to teach people is like, when can you do it on your own? And when do you need to get extra support?

1:19:10Right. When you're able to be with it, you can do more. When you start slipping in it, you've lost perspective. So that's one of the guidelines. I did a course recently with a writer who writes memoirs, also Lissa Rankin. I know Lissa. Yeah. You know Lissa? Right to Heal. Right to Heal. We just did a course and we're trying to teach people. And I did like we set up this structure and guidelines of how to write from the part, how to write a love letter to the part. So we're working on different ways. I feel like we're working on how do I heal? Because I know there's a lot of people out there who don't have these resources and there's a lot of trauma.

1:19:56So I'm really working on and I'm, you know, I want us to collectively work on it. Right. To bring this to people so that if you can't, you know when you need to get help or how to get help. And I don't know, you talked about these moments in your life. Like with my husband, I had so many corrective experiences with him. That's been a very healing relationship. So we can heal in relationship under the right circumstances that are not therapeutic too, right? You know what I mean? Sometimes friendships are like, I have friends that can be so vulnerable too, and it feels so good. I don't have a ton of them, but we can heal in a relationship.

1:20:36Wow, that's powerful. I wanted to ask you about drugs with mental health or trauma. Which drugs are you talking about? There's a lot of them.

1:20:48I do my best to come from an open mind when it comes to, I guess, prescription drugs. Yes. with someone dealing with mental health trauma yeah you know depression all these different things yep but sometimes I feel like people bypass the work yeah first yep to get a relief of I'm overwhelmed I'm stressed I'm mentally struggling I'm depressed I'm suicidal thinking yes give me a drug to feel better 100 % what are your thoughts on this because you've prescribed this as a psychiatrist to patients and clients before do you feel like too many people are quickly jumping to prescription drugs to heal a symptom versus turning around and facing himself doing the process you talked about and actually going through the pain which feels like you're going to die sometimes yes it feels like threatening yes when you face the wounds It is horrendous.

1:21:50So I understand it is probably the hardest work you'll ever do. That's right. But what are the complications of going for prescription, depression, anti-depression drugs first before working through the pain emotionally? Yeah. So I'm not an anti-drug person and I'm not a drug first person. right and i i do a lot i used to do a lot of psychopharm psychopharmacology lectures there's neurobiological i teach about the neurobiology of ptsd and dissociation and when you're in hyper aroused ptsd you have low serotonin you have low gaba you have high cortisol high cortisol high norepinephrine there's a real bio i mean i can i teach this stuff in my sleep So there's real biological dysregulation.

1:22:45So when you have PTSD, you can benefit from increasing your serotonin or decreasing your norepinephrine or dopamine. There are also natural ways to do that, right? There's natural ways to do it. And the drugs aren't wrong at all if they're used appropriately. I think of medications as therapy enhancers. That's the way I think of them. When somebody can't be with because they're too flooded, use the meds to help lower the intensity so you can be with. Meds don't do the work. Meds do not do the work. We can have a whole other episode on psychedelics at another time because there's a whole world of the psychedelics.

1:23:29MDMA, ketamine, all those drugs. I'm steeped in that world too because people are rushing to those. I get so worried about that. I know. I get worried about people. And then they're like, I'm healed. And then three weeks later, they're like, I'm going to break down again. Well, it doesn't work. And I have very good friends who are very thoughtful trauma therapists who are doing amazing work with psychedelics too. So they're enhancers. Got it. And if you have enough knowledge to know when, it's like, when do you need therapy? When can you do the work on your own? When would medications benefit you?

1:24:03And when are you using them as a replacement? Like, both are true. Do you know what I mean? There's a lot of people that are like these hippie anti-drug people. I'm like, that's ignoring science. And, you know, I got PTSD, take a bill. Like, that's ignoring reality. You know, both extremes are harmful. I mean, I come, yeah, again, I try to have an open mind about this. I can hear your energy, though. I feel it. But. And. Oh, good. There you go. There you go. Because we live in the world of ands here. yes and i also yeah worry about external that's right chemicals influencing internal the internal pharmacy that we naturally have just like you said the wisdom is within us at birth and five yeah we have to tap into it right we've got to shut up the clutter and the you know the chaos and all these things i get it it's like how do we know that medication also won't harm our chemistry in the future if we do too much of it we don't know that shift of us needing it to then be self-regulated it's that's my worry yes in a world of ands it's a big deal with the anti-add meds for example the add meds are very complicated especially from childhood as we're developing our brains exactly so it's very complicated you're bringing up something that's important for people to pay attention to and let's be thoughtful about it like i used them at one point in my healing i couldn't do the work i couldn't do the work that makes sense i couldn't i was so i was depressed i was taken over by it the therapy wasn't helpful because i didn't i i needed and i did it for probably two years maybe is what i did and it helped me then you got off of it i got off of it it helped me do the work yeah it helped me do the work like if you can't do the work it can help you versus use it instead of doing the work no yeah yeah and it's if if you're willing to do it and say okay i'm intensely doing the work now yes yeah and it's a both and yeah then it's like okay yeah if i'm unable to do the work and i've tried and tried and done all the different things that's not working then try it and try but also do the work with it right Don't just take the med.

1:26:21It's not a replacer. It's not a replacer. It's an enhancer of the work. That's good. That's the way I think about it. I like that philosophy. Yeah, that's great. And to be really thoughtful about the long-term effects of these medicines. I think it's important because there is a culture. Like, let's do everything quickly. There's such a culture in that. Or put a Band-Aid on it or just give it relief. Yes. We're so... Like technology has made us so instantaneous. Some of the pill stuff folds right into that. You know what I mean? And like I'd rather do an MDMA session or a mushroom session so I don't have to.

1:27:02And feel good at the moment. And I'm like gone into la-la land, you know, so I don't have to do the work. So there's a bypass. We call that bypass. Like a lot of people use meds. A lot of people use meditation as bypass or spirituality as bypass. Let me get to a higher place and ignore my trauma. There's a lot of bypass in spirituality. There's a lot of bypass in medication. I'm a very spiritual person. It can really enhance the work, but it can also be bypassed. So can medicines. Wow. If someone knows that they have blocks, they have wounds, they have pain, They have resentments, anger inside of them.

1:27:42And they also know that, man, this might take months or years to process and actually face. And I've got so much at work and my family. I've got to show up and like hold the ship together. I can't go through this work right now because it's going to be so painful. It's going to take so much of my energy, my time. I'm not going to be able to be there for my husband or my wife or my kids and my work. I'm going to be in like breakdown mode. Yes. What would you say to those individuals on what's available on the other side? And is it ever a wrong time to start the work? Yeah, it's a great question.

1:28:16And I face this a lot with a lot of people, I have to tell you. It is, I can feel it as we're talking, like it is really painful. It is difficult to go through this. I'm on the other side. Yes. And my life is better than it's ever been. I am doing more things than I had. I would have never in a million years thought I would be able to live this kind of life. So the benefits are enormous when we are clean and clear and truly ourselves. The benefits are endless for all of us in different ways. So not everybody wants to, has the resources to do the work to get there. And I say that's a choice. I really say that's a choice.

1:29:11Most people can't slip through life without getting stopped up by it. It's the third divorce. It's the third kid that I can't afford that I shouldn't have had. It's the job that I keep failing at or another boss who hates me that I got fired for, right? So what I would say to people is, how is your life? And is it where you want it to be? And if not, which pieces do you want to change when? This does not have to be done in the grueling, all at once kind of way. You know, out here in L.A. as I'm working more with people, it's fascinating that a lot of people who are in this industry are terrified to do the work because they are afraid they're going to lose their careers over it.

1:30:08Interesting. If I, and I've met a lot of people who have significant trauma. You don't play somebody else for a livelihood without needing to get away from something. I'm not saying every actor has trauma. I'm not saying that. I'm saying I've worked with people who are very reluctant because there's fear that they're going to lose what they do have if they do the work. I'll lose my family. I'll lose this. So what I say is take it one step at a time. Like, where are you unhappy? What do you want to change? And then do the work around that piece. Do it a little bit at a time. It doesn't have to be like i'm not everybody needs to be in therapy for 33 years sorry that's i don't recommend that for everybody there's a lot of money and time consuming i'm grateful but i have a purpose in it right so do what do it in phases and if it gets too hard really stop there's timing i had a piece.

1:31:11I had my oldest son and my youngest son, they're four years and a day apart. And my youngest is on the spectrum. And he was a very challenging kid with many, many medical problems. And I couldn't, I wasn't good. I was too overwhelmed in my life to do deep healing work then. I couldn't do it then. I was barely keeping afloat, right? So it's like, you got to balance where you want to be, where you are, and what kind of resource, energy and monetarily do you have when. It's kind of a long life and different people do different work at different times. You know what I mean? And I can say this now at 60, like, oh, you're only 30.

1:31:59You're at 30. You've got a long way to go. It's okay. Do a piece of work now. I did a piece of work, got into a great relationship with a guy. It was like, I didn't repeat anything anymore. I was like, I'm not in repeat mode. I found a good relationship. And then it was years later when we had kids, that stuff came up at a different layer. So I went back. Do you know what I mean? So it doesn't have to be all at once. Interesting. And what would you say is the number one emotion that blocks us from peace, harmony, and ultimate happiness? Shame. I think it's shame. Like, shame is so toxic, and shame is usually the result of relational trauma.

1:32:45Really? When does shame occur? I write about this. It can happen. Brene Brown talks about shame in a way that I love also. I write about shame from a trauma, a relational trauma perspective. And there's two shame cycles that I talk about within trauma, within relational trauma. One is when you're verbally or physically abused. You worthless piece of shit. Okay? You internalize, I'm a worthless piece of shit. So you have a part that holds shame. I, shame is not I did something wrong. Shame is I am bad. So when we are, when there's an external shamer, we develop an internal shamer and an internal shamed.

1:33:41Wow. Okay. You worthless piece of, if you behave, we won't get in trouble. So when you're critically abused, verbally abused, or externally shamed, you have a shame wound. I'm bad. I'm no good. Is that sexual abuse too? Sexual abuse can, yeah. I would say sexual abuse too. It's interesting. I just feel that so powerfully. Like it adds another dimension to it. Like I am, it's like the vile. Worthless. It adds another layer of shame. You can relate from your own history, right? So it's, yeah, I would say it's another depth. Another layer. Another layer of I am horrible, I am bad. That's one shame cycle that can be healed, okay?

1:34:32And that's the wound is I am no good. It takes a long time to heal shame wounds. They can be healed, but it takes a long time. It's such a physiologically powerful emotion, and it's so reflexive and reactive, right? Instantaneous. That's probably why you had this kind of reaction when your kids would touch you and jump on your back. You're like, ah. It's so reflexive. The other shame wound comes from neglect. And that could be big T neglect or little T neglect, right? Yeah, like I am so bad that my parent doesn't even care. I'm so bad that I'm not worth food or clothing or a hug. Or love or affection.

1:35:15Or love or affection. So when it's neglect, it's, and I call this one the hyper aroused, you yelling and screaming. This one's the hypo aroused, numb, detached, disconnected. And then you develop an internal shamer or disconnector. Those are the people who are disconnected from themselves because they've learned that disconnection is a way of being in the world. See? So those are two such shame cycles that I work with in relational trauma. All different versions over and over again. How is someone who is disconnected or analytical and not in their body and connected to their heart based on conditionings of neglect and shame?

1:36:03Yep. How does someone like that learn to process and heal so they're fully in their body and in their heart and connected to themselves and the world? That was so, I had the smart intellectual protector in a big way. I'm going to know it all. You don't get to Harvard. I was like, yeah. And it was who I was. Your identity. Who I was. I am smart. And it was, you know, intellect fills a void. Intellect fills the void, the shame void. It's like, and those parts. If I feel worthless, then this will help me not feel worthless. I'm going to fill the space. I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to understand it.

1:36:53I'm going to solve the problem, right? And those parts have a very hard time stepping back. If I step back, there's nothing. right if i don't lead with my intellect yeah or showcase my abilities or skills i'm nothing i'm nothing and so right like wow and it's so powerful so it takes those are those are take a long time to work with those and i remember the moment that that i wasn't like fully identified with that part it's like it was it was a like it was like one of these like identity crises it's like who am i who am i if i'm not smart you know like then it was where i was like oh you're funny and oh you like this like i started seeing the other dimensions but for the longest time it was like i i write about this in the book um i used to run home with a's on my report card hoping my dad will love me like this is she's gonna love me now the gold stars on the report card you know perfect yeah gpa that was tough of the class driven for achievement to get love did he ever acknowledge you or love you when you had a's it didn't he acknowledged we got a dollar for every a back in the day okay we got a dollar for every okay so but it didn't get me what i wanted it didn't get me love really it didn't get me love you know so you got rewarded in monetary ways but not emotional or affectionate exactly so it took it take those those people that are all left-brained how does someone learn how to fully love and love themselves and give themselves affection when their parents didn't have the tools or wasn't in their dna to touch hug kiss yeah and love on their kids and i said when i went to japan last year i saw this And I heard this from many people that said just the culture.

1:38:53I'm sure some people didn't do this, but the culture in general just wasn't affectionate with kids. And it's very academic-driven, achievement-driven type of culture. Again, not all parents were this way, but it seems like this was the culture. And they grew up not able to express their emotions as fully based because of that. That's right. So if someone was raised without affection from their parents, love, attention, how do they learn to give them self-affection and be comfortable receiving from others when they never received from their parents? Yes. It's a great question because it is – I'm going to say it's possible.

1:39:33I do believe it's possible. And it's undoing a lot of family legacy, cultural trauma, transgenerational trauma. Yes. Okay? So there's a lot that comes up in transgenerational trauma around that. Dr. Marielle Bouquet talks about generational trauma. That's exactly right. It's huge. We all grow up in some form of a family that we've internalized the messages through ethnicity, through the family culture. So we internalize that stuff. That's also not our energy. It's energy we absorb because of the family we're in. Gosh. Okay? So once you differentiate who you are from what you were subjected to, who you are from what you were subjected to, or what family you were born into, what's yours, what isn't yours, right?

1:40:32And this idea we all have love within us. Yes. We all have it. So even if you're programmed not to, we all have it. We all have it. Man. Your book, To Be Loved, A Story of Truth, Trauma, and Transformation by Frank Anderson, is a powerful story about just kind of the life you've been through and the different levels of traumas and challenges and therapies and experiences is a beautiful story. I want people to get this because I think a lot of people can relate in some way to their own life. That's right. 100%. about what they've experienced, what they've gone through, and how to find hope and healing no matter how much trauma you've experienced, what type of disconnection you've had, how you've been abused, abandoned, forgotten, dismissed in your uniqueness in the world, and how to love and acknowledge people even if they've treated you poorly as parents and see them from a compassionate place without condoning their behaviors and actions toward you as a child.

1:41:39One of the exercises I have experienced that is probably one of the most healing for me as I had been doing the work for a while was revisiting, I'm getting chills just thinking about it, was revisiting the five-year-old in front of me and having a beautiful conversation and experience with my five-year-old self and bringing him into my heart and reconnecting with That wounded boy. That's right. And as an adult self, being able to hug and give him what he needed and also thank him for going through the challenge and the struggle, for facing these confusing times as a child without the tools and saying, thank you for getting us here.

1:42:30Right. I got your back now. That's right. And I can take us to the next place. 100%. Thank you for enduring this confusing, painful life. Yeah. You shouldn't have had to experience this. That's right. I acknowledge you for not hurting yourself more than you did, not beating yourself up more than you did, and for doing your best. That's right. I love you. I accept you. And I appreciate you. And I got you. 100%. It's one of the most beautiful exercises that I have done for all the parts of myself. That's right. That's the transformation thing I was talking about. It's a beautiful example of that.

1:43:13It is. Yeah. And I think your book gives us kind of this journey of how we can do this with ourselves and different parts of ourselves and just understands the complexity of the human experience. Right. because it's, in my opinion, the most beautiful experience, but it can also be the most challenging, confusing experience at the same time because we live in a world of ands. Yep. I love that. People can get the book right now, To Be Loved. Also, your website, frankandersonmd.com. You're also on social media more now, frankandersonmd. If they just Google that, they'll find all of your social media links.

1:43:56You're also working on the Trauma Institute, which people can find as well on your website and learn more about how they can use the tools and training and courses to support them on their own journey if they can't afford therapy at this moment or they're not ready for it or they want to do it on their own to get started and dabble in it. So I highly recommend that. You are, you know, you've been in this work with the leaders of psychiatry, psychology, therapy, trauma for decades in this work. And we studied with, worked with, and know all of the top experts. You're constantly learning. So this book will be a great resource for anyone looking to reclaim themselves and to feel fully loved and healed in their journey.

1:44:43So I'm so grateful that you're here and I acknowledge you for the pain you've endured and the suffering that you have experienced throughout different seasons of your life and the gift you give all of us by saying this pain is I'm going to create meaning from this pain and trauma and suffering and I'm going to find out why this is happening so I can serve people so they don't have to experience this pain and suffering as well. So I want to acknowledge you for the gift of continuing your journey of growth, your gift of finding ways to bring academic research and science to the masses so that we can understand the complicated.

1:45:31And just acknowledge you, Frank, for your big heart and tapping into your heart and getting out of your head. You're a beautiful human being. Thank you. Two final questions I have for you. This is called the three truths question. So it's a hypothetical scenario. Imagine you get to live as long as you want in this world, but it's your last day. You could be as old as you want. Science has gotten you to 100 plus something years old. You still have the same skin at 100, so you look 30. But for whatever reason, it's the last day for you, hypothetically. You get to create everything you want, to witness, experience everything you want from this moment until then.

1:46:11But for whatever reason in this hypothetical question, all of your content is gone from the world. We don't have access to your book, this conversation, anything you create for whatever reason, it's gone. But on the last day, you get to leave behind three lessons from all of your life's experience. And this is all we would have to remember and be reminded of. And I call it the three truths question. What were those three truths that you think everyone needs to know that you would share? So we all have love in us, even our enemies. We all have trauma that can be healed.

1:47:01and really nothing else is more important than love and connection like it's interesting when you were saying that i was part of me instantly flashed to my kids and then my husband and then my siblings right it's like the people that are important to me right and then you're like all your books and information are gone the other piece was like but wait a minute like i want to get this message of trauma blocks love, love heals trauma to the world. And so I would say the three things encapsulate that, the importance of love and connection, the fact that we all have it in us, and it can be healed.

1:47:40Final question, Frank, what's your definition of greatness? Love and kindness. Honestly, love and kindness. There you go. Frank, thanks so much for being here. Appreciate you. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend.

1:48:15Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels. at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

1:48:51Bye.