Why 63% of Young Men Have Stopped Trying | Scott Galloway

28:14I remember people, I went to my friend's parents and they knew I didn't get in. And they're like, you should get on a plane tomorrow and go to Michigan and show up at the admissions office and you're so smart. And I'm like, I'm listening, I'm like, go to Michigan. I don't have a credit card. I don't, I've never, I've been on a plane like twice. We don't have that kind of money. I can't afford to spend two or$300 to go and show. There's just a lack of confidence, a lack of contacts, a lack of, quite frankly, a sophistication that people with money can't even relate to. And the anxiety, I remember like this, I don't call it trauma, people have worse trauma.

28:53I'm one of those people that's almost five minutes away from losing your keys. I lose everything. And my ex-wife used to say if my dick wasn't attached, we'd find it on a card table in Soho next to a Goodfellas script and a Nirvana album. and I lost two jackets in one week and jackets were 30 bucks for some reason. It was like a monopoly or a cartel in jackets. And I remember just the fear and anxiety. I purposely spent the night at my friend's two nights in a row because I just couldn't face telling my mom I'd lost another jacket, you know, because I knew she was going to melt down. My mom was in a very vulnerable place and she would just lose her shit and that was very distressing.

29:34So I've been so focused in some of the critiques of the book is that, and it's actually an accurate critique, it's that I'm too focused on money. And then I think money will solve a man's problems. And that's actually a really accurate critique, but that comes from a place of not having it. And things just got so much easier and better for me once I had economic security. Well, I think it's part of it for sure, like you said, but also if you're not kind and you have money, you're gonna just ruin people's lives if you're just like mean. okay, I have all the money, I have resources, I'm funny and I'm intelligent, but I'm mean, that is a disaster for any person coming into a relationship with them, whether it be a business partner or a team member if they're running a business or - The president.

30:17The president or a finance. I say that, I don't know the political leanings of you or your audience, but I find that some of the role models for masculinity that we should naturally look up to, the wealthiest man in the world, he's won capitalism, and the president. And I don't think they're very strong role models for young men. I think they've conflated masculinity with coarseness and cruelty. Being sued concurrently by two women for sole custody or child because you haven't seen that child. That couldn't be any less masculine. Cutting off aid to HIV positive mothers. I just can't think of anything less masculine than that.

30:52It's like these guys have recognized tremendous prosperity. That's really impressive. But the whole point of prosperity is you can move to protection. That's the whole shooting match, right? What's the point of prosperity if you can't get off your heels and onto your toes and protect others after you've protected yourself? And I think some of the most powerful men in the United States have just missed that whole part of their journey towards manhood. I think it's really disappointing. Even if you look back at the Gilded Age, some of these men who were just rapacious, kind of once they got there, they did feel a real obligation, a civic obligation.

31:26and that's where i think some of the individuals in big tech and in our government right now i feel as if they've kind of skipped that whole protection part of the masculinity stool if you will procreation protection and providing are those the three stools provider provider uh and then move to protection operating system around always protecting not just physical uh-huh you know guys like your size breakup fights at bars they don't start them yeah right but emotional protection psychological protection all these things right when you hear someone talking about someone behind their back, your default operating system should be to weigh in and at a minimum not participate and ideally protect them.

32:03You may not agree with the transgender community. You may be like me and think it's ridiculous that firms have to have legally mandated third bathrooms. I don't think that makes any sense. I think it's ridiculous that we allowed a transgender woman who's six foot five to show up to an NC2A swim meet. I think that's just irrational. It starts from a good place, but I think that's irrational. But at the same time, I just don't see any reason why people want to demonize this community and start kicking them out of the military when they're served honorably. When we start passing laws in states that say there can't be any transgender athletes in high school, and then someone actually says, are there any transgender athletes in high school in South Dakota?

32:45And they can't find one. That's just demonizing a community. This is less than 1 % of the American population. So yeah, have Democrats or people on the left gone way too far? Yeah, but then to weigh in with just being mean and demonizing a community. So women should be able to cross the street because they see men on that side of the street, not avoid them. That's really, that's heartbreaking that women say they don't feel safe around men, right? I think we have to teach our young boys from a very early age, protection is really a key component. And then the last one is more controversial, is procreation.

33:20and that is I think men wanting romantic and sexual relationships has been pathologized and demonized. And I think it's a feature, not a bug. Because if men wanna have relationships and quite frankly, sex, I didn't see my partner at the pool at the Raleigh Hotel in South Beach and think I would like someday to have a relationship with her to get lower rates on auto insurance. I saw her and thought, quite frankly, I would really like to have sex with that woman. and that desire, that fire can be destructive. Yes. But most of the time, it's fire that's captured in an engine and creates progress, progress towards being fit, being a better dresser, having a rep, being a provider, having perseverance and developing what I think is the key skill in life across multiple dimensions and that is the ability to endure rejection.

34:15You know, all the shit that you've built here, this didn't just happen. The only thing I know that was involved in this was a lot of no's and the ability to get hit in the face, beamed in the face, get up, dust up and get back to the plate. And I think a lot of the skills men develop pursuing relationships are not only informative and educational, but really key to developing skills across the rest of their lives. And if you ever see someone where you think, oh, they're talented, but they seem to have made more money than I would have guessed, or they're with someone higher character and more attractive than them, I can almost guarantee you that one skill set.

34:55And that is the ability to get out a spoon and eat. And every great yes in your life, every great yes in your life will involve one thing. And that is a ridiculous number of no's that come before it. And there's a scary stat that just came out that 40 % of men 18 to 24 have never asked a woman out in person. Wow, really? So if you're a dude that's willing to go up to a woman, figure out a way to express romantic interest while making her feel safe, you're almost already in the top half of men. But men aren't approaching women. And this is anecdotal evidence. I don't have data on this. But when I go out to places, on a regular basis, when I speak to single women, they'll say, I'm here, I'm single, I'm ready to mingle.

35:38Look at me, I look amazing. They're signaling it, yes. And no men approach me. And regardless of what the Atlantic, the New York times will say, 80 % of women still say they want the man to make the approach. They don't want to be approaching men. It just doesn't feel natural for four out of five women. And I worry that men are being tempted, have been getting mixed messages. No guy wants to be that guy, right? Makes an approach, inartful, doesn't go well, awkward. Just laugh at or gets rejected. Or it ends up, we both work at Google. And now I'm that guy. And there's actual professional ramifications.

36:20I mean, the moment a woman says at work, fairly or unfairly, oh yeah, that guy, he hit on me at a bar, he's a creep. That is not, so I think that men wanting to pursue romantic and sexual relationships is a feature, not a bug. And we demonized and pathologized it. and I think we're now getting to a point where people realize that men being initiators, and I don't wanna say aggressive because that has negative overtones, but when I coach young men, one of the things I tell them is they need to put themselves in the agency of strangers and then we have a practice called know, get to know. Express platonic friendship.

37:01Hey, do you wanna grab a beer and watch the game? And then also maybe romantic interest, would you be interested in grabbing coffee? First, you gotta open, establish some sort of rapport, where are you from, you know, et cetera. And I'm like, and then the key is no, because what you're gonna do is you're gonna call me the next day and I'm gonna say, how are you? And they're gonna say, oh, you know, I'm fine. And that's the key is developing those calluses. I'm alive. Yeah, I'm fine. I'm alive. And by the way, she's fine too. Yeah. She's fine too. And if you don't know the difference between expressing platonic and romantic interest and harassing someone, you got much bigger problems.

37:34But where do men even have the venues to do that right now? Yeah. So provider, I think you gotta be economically viable in a capitalist society. I think your own self-esteem, the way society judges you is unfairly. It's unfairly based on the economic viability for men. It's unfairly based on the aesthetic qualities of women. And I'm not saying this is the way the world should be, but it is the way the world is. Yeah. And then two, immediate move to protection. I think that's the most rewarding thing about being, having some prosperity. That's when I feel most at rest and most of purpose when I feel like My kids are safe.

38:05My partner feels noticed. I feel I can get involved in great charities. You know, I'm doing a lot of virtue signaling right now, but it's true. But that gives me a sense of purpose and makes me feel strong. And then finally, I think we've got to celebrate young men's desire to be in relationships. I think it's a feature, not a bug. Well, I think society is better when men learn to improve themselves so they can attract a female partner or a partner where they can be a better human being. They can provide to that partner. They're less selfish, hopefully. They're more thoughtful about how they can serve their friends, their family, their community.

38:43If you find a man like that who can improve their life to attract a healthy, conscious woman that wants to be with them, you're going to have less war, less suffering, less pain, less aggression, less anger, and less men hurting other people. And I think that's what we need as society. and i saw you go on the view and there was a reaction video that someone said you know okay scott so you need women to come rescue men you know because you know unless men are with a great woman then they're going to be you know going around the world hurting people and just like causing a mess and now we have to go and save men yeah yeah you know when they've been oppressing us or hurting us for years and pushing us down like that doesn't work for me so what what are your your thoughts around that, where it's like, women feel like they're already working so hard, why do they have to come rescue the man now to be a better man?

39:36Yeah, so it's not, nobody has an obligation to service or save men, especially women. I don't, you know, men have to level up. Women don't have, I don't think women need to lower their standards. You know, I tell women to agree to a second coffee, because traditionally, as we've referenced before, sometimes it takes time to find that you're interested in this man. But I've never ever in any way connoted or intimated, and I feel like some of these comments from Farah, they say these men are just entitled and feel like, and women are, as you said, supposed to come save them. I think unless men level up, and unless we put in place fiscal programs that restore more economic viability to all young people, you can't tell women to lower their standards and save men.

40:22I get it. I 100 % get it. So my, I have three parties that I think need to weigh in here with help. One is a society. I think we need to stop the transfer of economic power from young to old. We transfer$1.2 trillion every year, the biggest transfer in history of money from working age people to old people who are the wealthiest generation in history. My generation, people my age are 72 % wealthier than they were 40 years ago. People under the age of 40 are 24 % less wealthy. this has a disproportionately negative impact on men who are falling behind women because men are still disproportionately evaluated based on their economic viability beyonce could still marry jay-z if she worked at mcdonald's the opposite is not true and the reality is men are are evaluated as romantic partners disproportionately based on their economic viability so men need to we need fiscal policies that put more money i don't think in men's pockets but in young pockets but is that women who are looking that they don't they don't feel safe if a man doesn't have money or is that women who are attracted to men with money is that i don't know if it's they don't feel safe but 75 of women say economic viability is key to a partner only 25 of men i mean you've seen the state there's men made socio-economically horizontally and down women horizontally and up and when the pool of horizontal and up because women keep getting taller economically which is wonderful, don't do anything, get in the way of it.

41:46The pool of horizontal and up keeps shrinking. And so what do you do? I don't think we want economic affirmative action for men. I think what we want is to stop the transfer of wealth from young to old. The two biggest tax deductions in America are mortgage interest rate and capital gains. Who owns homes and stocks? People my age. Who makes their money from working current income and rents? Young people. And when a young group of people does not have money, you end up with a group with women who are two and three women under the age of 30 in a relationship, one in three men. Now, why is that? I think that's mathematically impossible.

42:25It's not, because women are dating older, because they want more emotionally and economically viable men. So, like, I think that we need to weigh in with policies that level up young people again. Raise minimum wage, more progressive tax policy, corporations are paying the lowest tax rate since 1939. The 25 wealthiest families are paying about 6 % tax rate. We just transfer massive economics. There's a sucking sound from young people to old people. I think it's taken an especially damaging toll on young men. And then the second group is I think men my age really need to lean in and get involved in a young man's life or a boy's life because we have a debt.

43:06To mentor young kids and young men. We had unfair advantage. And I understand the gag reflex because I see a guy of my skin color, sexual orientation, gender, and age and think, dude, you had a 3 ,000 year head start and you're complaining about men now. And I'm like, I get it. But should a 19 year old male pay the price for my advantage? So we have an obligation, especially men of my generation to get involved and try and lift them up. And then I also think women play a role because I do think there's an unhealthy zeitgeist in our society where women and progressives say to young men, you don't have problems, you are the problem.

43:46And the answer is you need to act more like a woman. And I don't think that's the answer either. I don't think it is. But I feel like sometimes, and I hate this term, people take this stuff out of context and say, you're expecting now women, after finally getting some progress, are responsible for saving men. No, they're not. Our society is responsible for creating a healthy next generation, which means continuing the progress of women and also lifting up our young men who by any standard are really struggling. And empathy is not a zero sum game. We can still acknowledge the huge obstacles women just face.

44:23Your wife just had twins. When women have kids, they go to 77 cents on the dollar. We have not figured out a way to maintain a woman's professional trajectory when she has kids. That's a problem. black and latino families have an average household net worth of 22 000 white families 160 there's still an economic apartheid in the u.s but we can acknowledge those problems still exist and work on them but at the same time also realize the country and women are not going to continue to flourish if young men are flailing full stop yes so again empathy is not a zero-sum game gay gay marriage didn't hurt, heteronormative marriage, civil rights didn't hurt, white people.

45:03Helping some of our young men, and specifically with programs for young people economically, that's not gonna hurt women. It doesn't come at the cost of women. And one of the things I hate about the manosphere, what people traditionally think is the manosphere, is they believe there is an inverse correlation between women's assent and how men are doing. And the reality is, without women's assent, we wouldn't have won World War II. Hitler wouldn't let women get into the factories. He thought they needed to stay home. And we let women build P-51 Mustangs, and we sent a lot of them overseas to be near the front lines.

45:40That literally won the war, was a big contributor to the war. Women entering the workforce in the 70s and 80s in the United States is probably the biggest driver of economic growth for the United States. And in a capitalist society where our expectations keep going up, having dual income households is really important. So I think women's ascent has been accretive to men. I think it's been great. And we need our young men to recognize that when they really lose the script is when they start blaming women for their romantic problems and immigrants for their economic problems, that women's success is great for them.

46:16At the same time, I do think that we need to stop this demonizing of, there's this thing online, this trend, where women say they're not dating any longer because they could be unalived, which I guess is a politically correct term. Killed, murdered, unalived. Unalived? Unalived, yeah. If they were dating someone, they'd be killed? Well, no, that one of the reasons they're no longer dating is they feel like they're taking physical risks being in a man's company because men are violent. Wow, okay. And 2 ,500 women every year are murdered. That's a huge problem. 70%, by the way, by people they've known for a while.

46:50But if you look at the actual data, if you go on a date with a man, he's 16 times, 16 times more likely to go home that night and hurt himself than hurt you. Why is that? I think men sometimes get very, look, men are engaging in a lot of self-harm. You go into a morgue and there's five people who died by suicide, four are men. And you're four times more likely to get hurt on the drive over or choke during dinner. So we've decided, I think the algorithms have decided, let's portray young men as, quite frankly, as a danger to society. And the reality is men who are dangerous and the vast majority aren't, but the small minority that are, are dangerous towards themselves.

47:30They're much more likely. The majority of gun deaths are suicides. And so I think that we also need, my biggest fans are young men. My biggest supporters are mothers because they see what's going on. They see I have two daughters and one son, one daughter at Penn, one daughter in PR, and my son's in the basement playing video games and vaping. So I think that recognizing what I call restoring the alliance, and that is the greatest alliance in history isn't NATO or between democracies. The greatest alliance in history is the alliance between men and women. I think a combination of masculine and feminine energy in a household makes the happiest, most productive households.

48:11And by the way, sometimes two women can bring that chemistry or two men can bring that alchemy, right? But that combination of masculine and feminine energy, I think, is a wonderful mix. and what the genders have done a great job of is convincing themselves that it's the other gender's fault, right? Men gotta stop blaming women. That just doesn't haunt, right? And at the same time, I do think that some women and feminists, well, it's actually not feminists. I'll call it progressives. Liberal versus illiberal thought. Just need to look at the data and think, okay, lifting up our young men is gonna be good for everybody.

48:44Yes, it is. Do you think, you know, I'm hearing you share that it's great that women are earning more and are constantly progressing in their careers and getting more opportunities than ever. And we want to continue that thriving. And we also want to see men continue to improve, especially young men who maybe don't have the skills anymore, the tools to become financially successful, or they haven't figured it out yet. Do you think, is there any data around the majority of women being able to earn more than men and still be attracted to them in a long-term romantic relationship? Is there any data that you've seen around that that women can make more and still be attracted to the man they're with long-term?

49:28So 17 % of households now, the woman is the primary breadwinner. And so I do think over time society is becoming - But are they attracted to their partner still? Well, okay, so this is - Just because they're together doesn't mean it's happy. Like the data is not, I'm gonna, there's the way the world should be and the way the world is. The way the world is is the following, is that when the woman in the relationship starts making more money than the man, the likelihood of divorce doubles. Really? The use of erectile dysfunction drugs triples because the man feels, has less self-esteem and has problems.

50:03Wow. So the honest answer is I don't know how to get past it. We're gonna have to figure out things and we're gonna have to train our - Is that biology? Is that like psychology around that, that causes these things, these challenges to arise? when women earn more than the men they're with? I think it's very anthropological, and that is women feel innately that their job or one of the things they need to be focused on is how to protect offspring, and they need to partner with someone who's strong and can protect them in their offspring, and in a capitalist society, strength is conflated with economic power.

50:36So there's just no doubt about it. So if a woman is stronger financially, emotionally, physically, then it's like, why do you need the man then, right? Well, so 70 % of divorce filings are by women, and actually the increase in divorce rates is probably a good thing because women no longer feel economically indentured or dependent upon a man. They're not trapped anymore yet from that. But there's just no getting around it. So men need to continue to figure out how to earn more than the partners they're with in order to have a happier marriage, it sounds like, based on the data. But also, at a minimum, if a woman ascends economically, relationships at the end of the day are somewhat of a transaction.

51:14If a woman is ascending economically, what you see is men aren't stepping up logistically and emotionally and domestically. They're not keeping pace without assent. And so at some point, the woman in the relationship does the math and says, okay, I'm the provider, I'm the procreator, and you aren't stepping up at home, then I'm definitely out of here. So there's a difference between, I think, working on the relationship and trying to evolve the relationship, which I think a lot of couples where the woman is the primary breadwinner, I think they can work through it. There's no reason they can't have happy marriages, but there's just no getting around it.

51:43The data shows that innate sexual attraction is at risk when the woman is the provider. Wow. And I'm not saying that that can't work, but there's just a lot of data that women lose sexual interest in a man when he fails as a provider or diminishes as a provider. The cocktail or the afterburner, the fuel on top of that division or dissent is that when men don't step up in the other parts of the life. They don't own their role. They're not generous or they're not kind. They're not contributing to her relationship. Whatever it might be, yeah. I think being part of a provider is quite frankly sometimes getting out of the way and being more supportive of your partner who might be better at that whole money thing.

52:27And I think we're gonna have to figure this out and train our boys to step up emotionally and logistically and domestically because the reality is more women are in medical school, more women are in law school. we're probably gonna have two to one female to male college grads in the next five years. And so women, more and more, that 17 % number is gonna grow. So we have to figure out a way to train our boys to say, okay, part of being a provider is contributing on a lot of different dimensions. But also, there are a ton of mainstream jobs and vocational programming. 13%, 11 % of LinkedIn profiles in the UK and Germany say apprentice.

53:11It's 3 % in the US. We don't have an apprentice culture and we have shame vocational jobs. I don't know if you've seen all these articles, but there's now a bunch of juniors and 17 year olds men in high school who are learning like how to install HVAC energy efficient heaters and making 80 or$90 ,000 a year by their senior year. It's great for them. There's actually a lot of vocational jobs ready. And we hate to admit this, but men seem to enjoy, and quite frankly, on average, not always, be better at this type of vocational work that requires sometimes strength or working out. Men seem to enjoy.

53:46Labor outside, yeah. And so we need to help men level up because I don't think it's, what I don't think it is, I don't think the descent or the anxiety or the lack of sexual chemistry, the sexual diffusion, if you will, necessarily happens once the woman is making a dollar more. It's quite frankly when the guy, okay, economically, maybe you're not there with me, but you're not contributing. You're not adding that surplus of value. There's not. You gotta bring something to the table, right? And traditionally, the roles were very defined. The female offered kind of more empathetic, understood how to create a healthy, loving household better than the men, kind of what we call the emotional labor that's been undervalued.

54:31Men aren't stepping up around that. So it's a very honest conversation. It's like, okay, your wife's doing great. You wanna be supportive of her because you need money, you need economic household. But quite frankly, boss, what do you bring into the table? Do you feel like in some ways, I'm gonna give an example, and this is just one example, but do you feel in some ways that women have been lied to around the need to be career-driven and earn as much as possible and delay having kids and delay getting married as long as you can until you're financially stable. And I'll give you context around this.

55:05And maybe it's just case by case. There's someone I know, I'm not going to call them out, but there's someone I know who is very career focused and driven on their career for probably the last 12 or 13 years and since college. And just always seemed a little frustrated, always seemed a little unhappy, just always seemed like a little, I don't know, something was always off. around the energy of this person. And they just had a child, you know, maybe six months ago, and I've never seen them happier. Every time around, it's like something transformed. Yeah. And it's like, she loves being a mother.

55:42She's like, it has changed her world in a positive way. Energetically, it's like she's on purpose. And she hasn't stopped at work and she's gone back kind of part-time. but it's like i can just see her come alive and do you think there's in any way women have been lied to about delay having kids as long as possible make as much as money as you can be financially stable first develop yourself in your career don't rely on the man to to do this otherwise you get it screwed over where i just saw someone have the most joy in the last six months of like stepping into this role as a mother maybe that's just one case but what are your thoughts I think the sort of you've been lied to, you worked hard, you became a baller professionally, now you're miserable because you didn't take the time to find a man or have a family.

56:34I think that's a little bit of this trope or this myth from the far right that wants to take women back to the 50s and 60s. Because, okay, what if that woman also wasn't able to find a romantic partnership and was also economically insecure. True. So I find sometimes that's an excuse to try and take, to regress and repeal women's rights. Now, I think, now the reality is if a man focuses on his career and is out of shape, not especially nice, but a baller professionally, he's still gonna find a mate. And that's not as true for women. Right. A partner at a law firm who's a male, who's maybe just modestly attractive and not that nice and not that nurturing, he's gonna find a wife.

57:33I'm not sure. I mean, it's just a little bit unfair, quite frankly, because we put the same economic responsibilities on women and the same expectations, but we don't reward them romantically and sexually with the same currency as we reward a man for that focus. So quite frankly, but I don't think, I think women wanting to be economically independent and enjoy having strangers applaud for them on a stage financially and professionally, I think we need more of it. I do think that both men and women need to make a real effort to approach people, be approachable, say yes, put yourself in situations where you might meet somebody.

58:16Maybe if there's not sparks on the first date, give a second coffee a chance. But this notion, I don't like the rights trope or this narrative around women that have lied to and they should be home barefoot and pregnant. I just think that's kind of inadvertently saying. This is not me politically saying these things. I'm just curious about like. Quite frankly, this is what Charlie Kirk said, that women are miserable. And here's the data flies in the face of that because you know who's really miserable? Is the dude that wakes up in his 30s and isn't in a relationship. The data is pretty clear. Men need relationships more than women.

58:53One of the things I say in the book that's gotten some pushback is, and I try to be very honest, I tell my boys that if they're ever in the company of women, they pay. People say, well, that's sexist. I think it's sexist. I think it's generous. It's adding value, it's being courteous, it's being thoughtful, being considerate. It's like, why is that sexist? Well, the way the land - If they say no, then okay, you don't have to, I guess. No, you offer, I think you just pay. You just pay, yeah. And I'll give my land acknowledgement now. So the rationale that I try and propose is that men benefit more from relationships than women.

59:32There's just, you know, widows happier after their husband dies, widower is less happy. A woman's fertility window is much shorter than a man's. The downside of sex for a woman is much greater than a man's. Bigger risk, yeah. So when you look at the fact that on average a man's gonna benefit more from the relationship, that the woman is taking more risks in terms of downside or risk, when her fertility window is shorter, and when you also acknowledge that almost every mammal has some sort of courtship ritual, it makes sense for one way that you recognize that asymmetry, one way you step up and say, I value your time, I value this situation, if you will.

1:00:07One easy way to recognize and acknowledge that asymmetry is to pay, and also, innately, regardless of what someone might say, what I've told my 18 year old son is anytime you split the check with anyone, it means they are never going to kiss you and you are never going to kiss them. That's the bottom line. And I think those genes are wired into us for thousands of years. And regardless of what we say, well, it's who asked who out. I'm just saying to my boys, in my view, that if you're in the company of women, you pay to guys like you who are in great shape. It's not necessarily because of the aesthetics of being a great shape the discipline it says you show up it says you can commit to something yes it says you're on your game it says you're not getting fucked up every night it says that you know how to show up every day and do something and commit to something so but anyways my point is that going back to the i don't think i think women's professional ascent is great for them i think over the long term it's great for society and great for men but we also have to recognize there's just some externalities and some knock-on effects when we're in a society where men are falling behind women economically.

1:01:16Don't get in the way of this, right? Fix this. Get men back on track. And I don't even like any program that specifically targets men economically other than investing more in vocational programming, expanding freshman seats. What I'm suggesting is a series of public policy programs that would lift all young people up. because it's not about the guy making, if the woman's in the relationship is making 80 ,000, it's not about the guy needing to make 81, but the guy needs to be sort of in a way contributing. He needs to be in that weight class where he's contributing. And I think a lot of, unfortunately a lot of men right now, young men are seduced by having a reasonable facsimile of life online and then show up with no skills and no ability to contribute to a relationship.

1:02:02and I think that's and again when a woman doesn't have a romantic relationship she pours that energy into her friends and her professional life when a man doesn't have a relationship not always but often he pours that energy destructive things right into conspiracy theory online goes extremely online all these mass shooters I did some research on political violence and the far left wants to bring the far right far right wants to blame the far left. And it's a totally hollow argument. 98.6 % of mass shooters are men. Almost all political violence is committed not only by men, but young men. And these guys are less politically engaged than probably you or me.

1:02:43What do they have in common? They're young men, not attaching to work, not attaching to schools, no relationships, economically strained. They go extremely online, find these conspiracy theories. They get radicalized online. And then they have access to guns. and again i feel i have to do another land acknowledgement i'm not suggesting that it's women's responsibility to solve this problem i'm suggesting it's a society if one group is struggling we can focus on lifting them up yeah and that's why i love that you wrote this book notes on being a man and it's one of the reasons why you know eight years ago i wrote the mask of masculinity because i went down my own path of realizing and coming to the awareness that All of these shootings, most of the domestic violence in the USA and the world, and just any destruction happening in the world is typically from men who haven't healed their traumas or haven't created a healthy, conscious respect about themselves and having more tools on how to navigate society and the world better.

1:03:47And the mass shooters that you're talking about, they have a lot of traumas that they haven't healed yet. They haven't processed the wounds of whatever they've gone through. They don't have good relationships. They're isolated. They're alone, or at least that's how probably they're feeling. And they don't have the tools on how to navigate their mind or their emotions on how to get beyond those things that are destructive. Yeah. And I think that's what you've been talking about in Notes on Being a Man is how to overcome the loneliness feeling, the sadness, the lack of resourcefulness, and having the courage to be in the world, dealing with failure over and over and over again and not going back into a cave in your parents' basement saying this girl rejected me or this guy made fun of me.

1:04:31I'm worthless. Now I'm traumatized and I'm going to go destroy the world around me. And I think when men, especially younger boys, because I was very internally destructive most of my life, I said a lot of mean things to myself. I'd physically hurt myself I was never like cutting myself or like going into alcohol but it was more like how can I get into as many fights as possible to be destructive to inflict pain on myself and other people thankfully sports gave me a safe outlet to do that where I could do it in a constructive way but I was still destructive in the process of wanting to inflict as much pain on myself and others because I just felt like I was bad and wrong I felt shameful growing up dealing with sexual abuse from a man that I didn't know.

1:05:17I felt like I was worthless. My brother was in prison for four years when I was eight. So just the stress of that on the family dynamics, my parents going through divorce. Listen, I was a white man born in Ohio in America. So I was born on third base in some ways, but that doesn't hold back the psychological stress and mess that I had to deal with. And a lot of people have to deal with. So I could have been completely destructive but there was different moments in my life and different mentors like like you mentioned there's a lack of now that that came to me and gave me a high five that put their arm around me emotionally spiritually physically and said why are you so destructive why are you trying to hurt yourself so much why are you why are you reacting this way like why are you getting so angry of the littlest things yeah like come over here yeah and i had mentor and i allowed myself to be coached by mentors i didn't push them away i i seeked it out as well and there were different seasons in life and stages that i had to fail over and over again and realize oh this behavior is not supportive to me or other people it's hurting people around me friends family girlfriends whatever it might be and i never physically hurt anyone but just like my behavior my reactions when i was younger it wasn't conscious it wasn't healthy and it was based on a wound or multiple wounds that i didn't know how to navigate yeah i didn't know how to heal and it wasn't until i was 30 when i opened up about sexual abuse for the first time to anyone yeah and i finally was able to release some of the shame yeah and then i went down the rabbit hole of studying why i was behaving this way most of my life yeah how i could start the healing process and how i could be a better person in the world it's the same time when i launched the school of greatness because i was like i need to humble myself i need to learn from great men like yourself who have mastered this or understand the science of this and how can i start to apply this to myself how can i be a student of life and i feel like that's where a lot of young men are struggling they don't know how to manage the emotional, psychological, spiritual, physical traumas that they've been through.

1:07:30And listen, it may not be as traumatic as what a lot of people are going through in the world, but still you've got to learn how to overcome it. And when we have the tools like your book on how to navigate the wounds that we've all been through, men and women, I feel like we can become more peaceful internally. And when we're peaceful internally, we're usually better externally. But most men don't know how to have peace in their heart. Yeah, a lot there. So what do you hear me say? What opened up for you there? What do you know? There's a lot of, I like a lot of that. So I would reverse engineer a lot of the world's problems to old men who won't leave.

1:08:10Really? And they're clinging to power and they move to autocracy and then they weaponize young men who have a lack of economic or romantic possibilities. The middle class in America, which I think is the greatest innovation in history is an accident. The natural state of being in our species is that a small number of men, through luck, inheritance, brute strength, accrete a disproportionate amount of power, and then get a disproportionate amount of the economics and the mating opportunities. 80 % of women have reproduced through modern history and only 40 % of men. And what happens to the 60 % of men who can reproduce is that the older men who won't leave weaponize their anger for war or for nationalism.

1:08:53The most unstable violent societies in the world have a disproportionate amount of one thing, and that is young men with a lack of romantic or economic opportunities. They're very easily weaponized. Interesting. And we're producing way too many of them in the United States. So you have, and then going back to your experience, you've been, I think, very brave and really helpful to a lot of men because you've been very open about your own abuse. but so two 15 year olds both abused right both sexually abused a girl and a boy neither crime is any less or more heinous but the studies i've read is that the boy when he gets older is seven to ten times more likely to engage in self-harm than the girl because men those men don't usually have a forum of sharing you know it's one in six um men have been sexually abused one in four women I believe, unless I'm reversing the stat.

1:09:48But just going back to, so what it ends up is that while boys are physically stronger, they're emotionally and neurologically much weaker than girls. The moment a boy loses a male role model, at that moment, through death, divorce, abandonment, he becomes more likely to be incarcerated than graduate from college. What's interesting is that in single-parent homes, girls have the same outcomes as dual-parent homes. They're a little bit more promiscuous because they're looking for male attention in the wrong areas. Same rates of college attendance, same income. A boy, wham. So we just have to acknowledge that boys are weaker and we need to create a societal norm where the moment a boy clearly doesn't have a lot of male mentorship in his life, even saying the boys needed men was triggering five years ago.

1:10:38They do need the men. This dialogue has gotten so much more productive and it's mostly been led by women who recognize I well single mothers without a man in the in the home it's they can probably see their young boys struggling they struggle but also men aren't stepping up because in New York and I think at the same approximately the same numbers in LA there are three times as many women applying to be big sisters as men applying to be big brothers why is that just men more selfish and just don't want to be as generous with mentorship I think naturally they're not as nurturing and two I I think there's a taboo that say you're a guy in your 30s and you like the idea of hanging out and helping young boy, you could provide paternal and fraternal care.

1:11:23You're worried that people are gonna suspect you of being a pedophile. That's true. Yeah, that's interesting. So when I was on Bill Maher, I said, we have an obligation to get involved in teen's life. And Bill said, oh, if I get involved in a 15 year boy's life, you know, no, no, no. And the whole audience laughed. I'm like, that's exactly the problem. because there are a lot of men out there that think, well, one, I don't want anyone to be suspicious of me. And two, I'm not an adolescent psychiatrist. I'm not a baller. I can tell you as someone who mentors young men, it is so easy to add value.

1:11:56Just showing up and playing basketball at the rec club like for an hour. You have value. Yeah. No, no, no. You can't survive on pineapple juice and creatine. You know, no, you gotta spend less time gaming. No, your mom is not your enemy. me come on man she's on your side she may not she may not get it right all the time but she's on your side like oh you feel like what did you eat today right are you exercising yeah you up till 4 a.m right oh you're really upset you're not going to your prom did you ask anybody did you ask anybody all right well then you're choosing not to go this is your choice right so it's so So I have found the easiest job I've ever had was mentoring young men.

1:12:38They make so many stupid decisions, Louis. I made a lot of stupid decisions. I mean, you just start asking them questions. Why? You got a good job. You just got a job. Your mom is sick, but you're gonna move to Alaska? Why? I saw this amazing documentary on Alaska. I'm like, have you ever been? Why don't we do this? Why don't you save a little bit of money, take a trip there, and then decide if you really wanna move to Alaska from Maryland right now? Is that a good idea? Just a couple questions. And not only that, they will listen to you. They don't listen to their mom. And what's weird is sometimes, or a lot of times, a boy who's a teenager will listen more to his dad's friends than to him.

1:13:18So I just think we as men need to get involved in a boy's life. That's the single point of failure is when a boy loses a male role model. and there's a lot of really wonderful men out there who maybe don't have their own families yet have a little bit of spare time and think you know what i'd be pretty good at this and i would enjoy it and it's really easy big brothers there's a ton of mentorship programs but for some reason men aren't stepping up i've got a few final questions for you before we get you out on bill's show here today um but what was your relationship like with your father and what What was the biggest lesson he taught you that you still apply today?

1:14:02Generous question. Look, my dad, my dad wasn't very sophisticated. He got pulled out of school at the age of 13. I think he got a lot of validation from attention and affirmation from women. And I jokingly say, but there's some truth in it, that being a handsome man with a Scottish accent in 70s California meant that he could not only think with his dick, he could listen to it. My dad was married and divorced four times. Wow. He started his, that we know of, he started his third marriage while he was still with my mom. So my dad, quite frankly, was just really, had a really tough time with monogamy.

1:14:37And that wasn't the worst of it. The thing that really strained my relationship with my father is that he was not kind to my mom. And when my parents got divorced, my dad - How old were you then? I was nine. my dad could have made mine and my mother's life much easier with a little bit of money, and he didn't. And not having your dad around was bad, but a mom who was financially insecure and felt emotionally very damaged was just created a household of constant sort of, it was like you always had high blood pressure. You were wondering - Fight or flight always. Yeah, and she was just very easily upset.

1:15:16She was a strong woman, but she was dealing with a lot. So I resented my father for a long time. I used to go for long periods without speaking to him. And then the big unlock for me, and what I would recommend for anybody, the biggest unlock of my life was the following. I was constantly keeping score. My dad wasn't a very, he was an okay dad, not a very good dad, so I'm not gonna be a good son. And then what I realized is I would get a lot of joy and reward from having a good relationship with my father. So the unlock is the following. Look at your relationships, and rather than having a scorecard, put it away and say, what kind of partner do I want to be?

1:15:56What kind of boss do I want to be? What kind of son do I want to be? What kind of brother do I want to be? And maybe your sister didn't show up when your dad was sick. But do I want to be a loving, generous brother? Yeah, I do. So put away the scorecard and just hold yourself to that standard. and I decided about 20 or 30 years ago to put away the resentment of my dad and say, I really want to be a loving, generous son. And I have been for the last 20 or 30 years. My father passed about four months ago and my dad mellowed as he got older, he got more generous, couldn't get off the phone without saying a couple of times that he loved me.

1:16:33And the first time I heard that when I was 40, I'm like, dad, I don't need that now. I could have used it when I was eight, but then I leaned into it. And so what I would say is the big learning is people are flawed, put away the scorecard, decide what kind of person you want to be in that relationship. And the other big learning was my dad evolved. My dad was a better dad to my half sister, his daughter by his third marriage, than he was to me. And that's evolution. That's cool. He got much more loving and kinder as he got older. And also just little things. I've gone entirely the other way. My dad was so traumatized by money.

1:17:09He was so cheap. I've gone the other way. I don't go out unless I can pay for everybody, not that I do. Because I'm at a point now where all my male friends are trying to show how big their dick is and we're all fighting over the check. But I also am very affectionate with my boys. My father wasn't very affectionate with me. I decided I'm taking affection back. I kissed my boys on the lips, which they stopped doing when I was 15. But my best friend Lee, his father was this guy, Lee Lotus Sr. who was this, the guy looked like Burt Reynolds. And when he'd come pick up Lee at college, UCLA, he'd walk in to the fraternity or to Leah's apartment and he'd roll up this big, handsome guy and Leah was a big, handsome guy and they'd kiss.

1:17:49And it just seems so natural. I guess it's Italian. So yeah, just real quick, I guess. And I'm like, wow, I'd like to, whoa. And I remember thinking if Burr Reynolds can kiss his kid, his son, so can I. So I'm really, one thing I got going the other way was I got a lot of affection. I decided to be very affectionate with my boys. And two, I make my living like you telling stories. And a lot of that is not my fault. I got a lot of that DNA from my father. My father can hold a room like nobody. And so there's no reason not to be grateful. Like you're big and huge and good looking. Like there's no reason not to be grateful to your parents, even though they didn't go out of their way to give it to you, they did.

1:18:33And so there's no reason not to be grateful. Like, God, I got this skill from my father. And you're alive because of him. There you go. You wanna be here. Life helps, but the big unlock for me was put away the scorecard, just be the man in the relationship you wanna be and hold yourself to that standard. Is there anything you wish you would've said or he would've said or any interactions you wish you would've had with your father? No, the nice thing about my relationship with my father, my father lived to be 95. Wow. Nothing went unsaid. That's beautiful. We were very emotional with each other, very emotive he was constantly couldn't stop telling me how proud he was of me that's nice yeah it was really nice um it may have been a rough childhood yeah you know didn't go with different women and abandon your mom in that way were your parents together were they divorced they were together they got divorced when i was a teenager so but they were they never showed each other the love so they were there they showed us kids love i was the youngest of four but they were constantly fighting and it was very emotionally it didn't feel safe at home i left home at 13 i begged them to send me away to a boarding school they didn't want me to leave right you want my brother just got out of prison from four years it was very traumatic going to a visiting room of a prison every weekend i didn't have any friends for four years because you're in a small town in ohio everyone knew in the neighborhood that my brother had been to prison so the parents wouldn't let their kids hang out with me yeah my parents were financially struggling stressed they weren't showing you know affectionate love it was just anger it was sadness that's rough so we had a home it's not like i was homeless um i was going to school but it was like it was just not emotionally safe feeling i didn't feel physically like i was an under harm but emotionally it just didn't feel safe yeah look they were doing their best you know it's like they only had the tools they had so Yeah, and it's good that at some point you just forgive them, right?

1:20:32If they tried, I think the box every parent needs to check is to be a better dad or mom to you than your father or your mother was to you. And my dad checked that box. And there's a lot that I took from that relationship. And also when your parents get divorced, as mine did, you have a tendency to sanctify once and demonize the other. You have a tendency to go, one was wrong, one was right. And what you realize is neither is perfect. But the reality is, Lewis, is that my dad, and it was a different age, my dad kind of left it when I was nine. He moved to Ohio. I didn't see him a lot. And that was not ideal.

1:21:13Fortunately, I had a lot of men, I'm doing this live thing tonight downtown in LA, and I've invited two men who got involved in my life randomly when I was a kid. And I reached out to them. They're in their 70s and 80s and said, will you come to this thing tonight? Oh, that's cool. you know one was a stock bro i i i my mom's boyfriend gave me 200 bucks and said go to one of those fancy i started asking about stocks and he said here's 200 going to those fancy beverages in westwood and i walked him at 200 at the age of 13 like what do i do into dean witter and i said hi i have 200 and they said wait here and this guy with this juifro came out named cy sarah and he goes i'm cy sarah and he took me back to his cubicle and he gave me my first lesson in the stock market.

1:21:52And he said, when there's more buyers than sellers, the sellers raise the price until there's fewer buyers. He gave me a first lesson. And then I came back the next day and he said, all right, let's look at some stocks. He's like, what are you interested in? I'm like, well, I love the movies. And Close Encounters of the Third Kind had just come out. And he said, okay, Columbia Pictures is the company that made it. It's a stock. We bought 16 shares of Columbia Pictures for like 12 bucks a pop. And every day for two years, I used to go into the pay phone booth at Emerson put in my two dimes and call To check in on my stocks and once or twice a week I'd go into the Dean Witter Reynolds office in Westwood and he'd give me another lesson on stocks And he used to call my mom and it wasn't trying to sell her We had no money and he would just say nice things about me to my mom I used to hang out with this guy in his office for a couple years until I went to high school And this is a flex, but I'll make it I've made a lot of money starting and selling companies I've made tens of millions of dollars investing in stocks.

1:22:53I've been investing in stocks since I was 13 because of Cy Sarah. Wow. So in addition to giving me some confidence that this nice, impressive man liked me, it taught me this incredible life skill around investing. So I got - Is he coming tonight? Yeah, he's coming tonight. That's cool. Yeah, first time I've seen him in 45 years. No way. Yeah, we stay in contact over text. You haven't seen him? I haven't seen him in 45 years. That's incredible. Are you gonna see him tonight? Yeah, it's really nice. I'm gonna see him tonight, yeah. That is cool. Send me a photo of it. Yeah, it'll be nice. But I was really lucky.

1:23:28I had this guy and his girlfriend noticed that my mom and I, you know, it was just my mom and I, one day knocked on our door and he said, does your son wanna come horseback riding with us? And he and his girlfriend used to take me horseback riding. And just having men in your life that can give you a little bit of advice, and not only that, just give you the sense you have value, I think is huge. But anyways, back to, it sounds like, when did your dad pass? Three years ago, yeah. Yeah, so look, I think as you get older, you try and focus on the good things. You try and forgive your dad and whatever you think he got wrong, you try and course correct around for your own boys.

1:24:11I think that's the basis of trying to be more human, evolve but the one thing the one thing i would i mean i've had five one things but the thing i really took away from my father his real flaw that quite frankly was not great for me and took some time to repair i think the best thing you can do for boys is just treat their mother really well they just see it i really i really go out of my way i take some real arrows for my wife sometimes in front of the boys. I really try to demonstrate emotion and affection around her. I defer to her judgment in front of the boys. I just try to make sure the boys know that their mother is really valuable and they see it by the way I treat her.

1:25:00I think that's gonna create much more healthy relationships for them. I think that's the best thing you can do for your boys is just treat your, even if you're divorced, just be really good to the mother. Because my dad wasn't. And I think it really, quite frankly, damaged my relationship probably with women. Or maybe I'm just, like a lot of people, looking for trauma from my parents and I'm just a selfish person. But I think I could have been kinder to women when I was a young man. I don't think my dad was a great role model for that. You mentioned earlier, and we've got to wrap it up here in a few minutes for you, but you mentioned earlier that your dad used to watch Bill Maher.

1:25:36All the time. Favorite show. Favorite show. And you're going to go on there here in a couple hours, you know, right down the street. And you said every time you go on there, you get a little nervous, but also excited because you feel like he's watching. I almost get a panic attack every, I do a lot of TV. I do a lot of speaking in front of, you know, I'm flexing thousands of people. I freak the out on that show, Lewis, because I think my dad's watching. Wow. And my dad watched Premier League football and Bill Maher. That's it. What is the message? You know, you're about to go in there. So I'm going to ground you for a moment.

1:26:12What's the message that you really want to make sure you land? No matter where Bill takes you all over the place, what would you really like to land that if your dad's watching, you feel like will be really special that you get to share a specific message? Well, the message I would want, if I could wrap my arms around all young men and just give them a mission and just trust me on this. Trust me. Search your feelings. You know this to be true. It would be really try to resist the temptation to live your life on a screen with an algorithm. And that at the end of your life, or even in your 20s and 30s, the anxiety and loneliness you're gonna feel without establishing relationships and taking those risks is gonna be so much greater than any fear you might have around what lays beyond that room.

1:27:14And that is, there is an enormous correlation between the amount of the ratio of time you spend in the presence of other people versus the time you spend on a screen. I don't think we've really come to grips with the fact that young men are up against an indomitable foe of big tech that literally makes billions for every additional minute they can get you on your phone and away from friends, mentors, and mates. Get out of the house. Take risks. Express friendship. Express romantic relationship. Apply for jobs you're not qualified for. Take as many shots as you can. But for God's sakes, get out of the house.

1:27:56Yeah, get out. Notes on being a man. Number one New York Times bestseller. Make sure you guys grab a copy right now. Follow you on all of your podcasts. You're all over the place, but you've got podcasts on money, and everything, life, politics, all these different places. What's the best place to follow you specifically? I'm like AOL in the 90s. You put your hand into a cereal box, you're gonna grab me. So to resist is futile. I am overexposed at this point. As you mentioned, I have podcasts. I have a newsletter called No Mercy, No Malice, profgalloway.com. You'll see if you're interested in a ton of ways to get my content.

1:28:30Awesome. This is an awesome book and you've got a great show and great content. I would acknowledge you, Scott, for taking on this subject because I know it's not easy and there's a lot of pushback on talking about vulnerability and masculinity and all these things. I felt it for years when I started to open up about this stuff. So I acknowledge you for doing it because I think we're even more at risk now than we were seven, eight years ago with younger boys not having the tools to be out in the world, to develop relationships, to look other people in the eye and just have a conversation, let alone build a relationship.

1:29:03And so I acknowledge you for speaking up, for taking on the criticism you take for sharing these things as well, because we need more great male leaders sharing this information so younger men can be inspired and hopefully take action. And I hope everyone gets a copy of this book and gives it to a young man in their life as well, or an old man who needs some lessons and learning as well. I asked you these two questions before. I'm just going to ask one of them. I asked you before the definition of greatness. So I'll have people go back and watch that from our previous episode. but this is a question I asked you as well called The Three Truths.

1:29:39After writing this book now and being at this stage of life where your father has recently passed, what would you say are three things you would leave behind if this was the last day on earth for you many years away and we would not have access to any of your content, but you got to leave behind three lessons to the world? What would those three lessons be that you would leave behind?

1:30:05Well, it's sort of an indirect way of answering, but I think of the tombstone test. What three words would you want on your tombstone? I'd want to be known as a generous person who created more value than I absorbed. That's the whole point. If you leave the world having provided more love, more economic opportunity, noticing people more than maybe you absorbed through your life, that's the whole point. You want, so I'd want to be known as generous. I'd want to be known as patriotic. The smartest thing I ever did, Louis, was to be born in America. I wanna reinvest in America and help make sure that many of the amazing things that helped me, state-sponsored education, Pell Grants, I got assisted lunch.

1:30:45You know, America loved unremarkable people when I was growing up, and I worry it's falling out of love with the unremarkable, so I would like to be hopefully seen as someone who's patriotic. And then the final thing, I just wanna be seen as a dad. I was really into my sons and that it was clear that later in life I saw my purpose as raising patriotic loving men. That that was, you know, so generous, patriotic dad. That's what I aspire to. I love it. I still got some work to do. No, man. Thanks, brother. Congratulations on everything. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it, man. Good. I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy.

1:31:22And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links.

1:32:00And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.