Why AI Is Making Us Lonelier and How to Truly Connect | Vanessa Van Edwards

22:33Lewis Howes:What if you're just both like, but you tell me more. No, you tell me more. No, you tell me. No, you tell me. Okay. Okay. This is a really good question. But this is still part of general. This is still part of general trace. We're still level one. We're still level one. Okay. So by the way, you can't make it to level two unless you make it through level one. Right. So these are really good questions because I just like skipping levels though. No, no, no, no, no skip levels. No, no, we have to do level one. So it's a great question. Sometimes introverts, like I have an entire chapter on introverts because introverts often want to listen first.

23:01And I believe this is a big, you can argue with me on this if you don't agree. I think there are two types of people in the world. There are entertainers and there are appreciators. Entertainers love to tell story. They want you to laugh at their jokes. They want to share their opinion. They're happy to drive the conversation both with question and with story. They like sharing. It makes them feel alive and heard. Appreciators love to listen. They love to ask the good questions and they want to be entertained. They want to hear your good story. They want to laugh at your jokes. They actually get a lot of joy from laughing at other people's stories and conversations and jokes.

23:40The problem is if you have two appreciators in a conversation, it's going to be hard. right so when you can't be both we default to one of course we can dial up into like i i'm actually an appreciator but i interview like i'm in interviews right i don't have a podcast so i have to turn it on i have to turn it on right like but i'm on or like this is i'm turning it on right because i know that i have to step into that role in a conversation if you can be conversationally

24:07Lewis Howes:flexible it's a gift yeah both hand both hand so if you're boss this is a mistake people make with bosses. Bosses are often, not always, appreciators. So a mistake that people will make is they'll go to their boss and they'll ask questions. Tell me about your weekend or, you know, what'd you think of the game? And the boss is like, you know, you entertain me. I talk all day. So in this way, and this takes a little bit of preparation, but I think it's worth it. In level one, can you prepare for boring questions? Can you prepare for the things you're asked the most often. And so I would make a list of the questions you are asked the most often.

24:44What are gifts you can give you? There are stories that are longer, if you have an appreciator, or stories that are longer if you have an entertainer or stories that are shorter if you have an appreciator. You guys prepare for both.

24:56Lewis Howes:That's general traits. General traits. Step one, step two. Okay. So you've mastered someone's general traits and level one is all about putting someone at ease. And then you feel like, you know, I think we can level up. So level two is called personal concerns. Personal concerns are goals, motivations, values, personality traits. When you're on level two with someone, you know, two things about them. This is kind of self-check. You know, what gets them up in the morning, you know, what like pulls them through the day, you know, what they're driving towards, what motivates them, but you also know what keeps them up at night.

25:31You know, what worries them, you know, what, what keeps you up at night, this book launch i'm feeling i mean like so honestly it's a lot of work it's a lot of work and also i like i so strongly you're always like why am i doing this again and so i yeah this book launch that's what's going on yeah it's what's keeping me up at night um and you know book book launches are hard because reading is a commitment it is i know asking someone to buy a book it's a big expense i know and then you're asking can i have eight hours of your life?

26:05Lewis Howes:Yeah, exactly. Can I have eight hours of your life? Yeah. What a huge ask. So that's what's keeping me up at night. And I think asking that is also a gift to me because I can ask for your help and you already are helping by having me here. That's your back. Right? Yeah, of course.

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28:45Lewis Howes:degree at snhu.edu slash greatness. That's snhu.edu slash greatness. So level two, here's the key for level two is a couple of questions. One is asking about goals and being more comfortable in your relationships, asking out goals. You know, yes, I'm talking about social interactions, but I'm also talking about work interactions. Like, do you know what all of your colleagues are working on? What's their professional goal? What's their health goal? What's their social goal? Being more comfortable if you're on level two with them talking about like what are you working on like what you know if it's kpis sure like if it's quantifiable that's great but also just like you know how can i support you right and so goals i call it dream building are you dream building with the people in your life or are you accidentally dream killing dream killers destroy connection and level two yeah well i mean i'm assuming we've all probably been there as well is also experiencing it from others, whether it be, I don't know what you're going to say here, but it's probably like if you're just speaking negatively or gossiping or doing things that are like pulling down versus speaking about possibilities.

29:51Lewis Howes:So if you're entering into conversations like, I don't know, that are just negative, then it's okay. Maybe there is some common connection about something we don't like, or we didn't approve of, or Sally said this, whatever, but is it empowering us to move forward? Okay. Negative is the first aspect of dream killing, but it's not the only aspect. And I also don't think that you have to be positive to dream build. Like there is such a thing as toxic positivity, right? Like we also don't want that. What dream killing, the way that I think about it, and when I observed dream builders and dream killers as leaders, right, this is a lot of my corporate talks are seeing how these two folks manage and lead.

30:27Dream builders are additive. They are constantly adding. So they are asking, tell me more. They are adding questions. They are adding curiosity. They're adding to whatever fire that is being stoked. Dream killers are subtractive. They are taking away. They're poking holes in balloons. They also do this thing. And I think this is most of your viewers. I think very smart people have the tendency to accidentally dream kill with trying to be helpful.

31:00Lewis Howes:How so? Dream killers often, not always, have a very good intention. They want to help you with their goal. But did you know? But did you know? Well, you know, the market is really... That's already been done before. Oh, yeah. I don't think that's going to work. Yeah, it's going to be too hard. Right. Like, you know, have you thought about this? I don't know if you've thought about that. And so a lot of the times the smartest people in the room are dream killing because they're actually trying to be helpful. It's a good thing I'm always the dumbest person in the room, you know? lifting others up hey it's the bonus of being added oh so i think i just share this because one if you've been accidentally dream killed oh i i wouldn't maybe it was maybe there was good intention there maybe not always and if you're an accidental dream killer i just like a lot of my students all i share this lesson you know i teach it and then they're like i did this or i've done this or i've done this i do this now right or like accuracy dream killing like i was with a couple recently and the the my friend was I don't want to name them my friend was like oh you know last weekend the craziest thing happened we went on this road trip we were on the 101 her husband goes no no it wasn't the 101 it was a 405 right we were on the 405 and it was so hot well it actually wasn't that hot it was it was hot on the highway but it wasn't hot outside right so it was not hot we were on the and like he wouldn't let her get to the story now the point of the story was something totally different but he was trying to be accurate which came from a good intention but it dream killed the momentum of what she was trying to say so i think this is later you know not interrupting constantly gut check not fact check yeah yeah right like one of my big bold quotes is like we have to gut check before we fact yeah maybe it was not 100 accurate but let's hear the rest of the story or like is this the time for that yeah is this the time to fact check i always want to fact check but their timing is issue and this is where level two is more nuanced right level two is nuanced you're in work relationships with people you it's very important you get along with them at work it's your partner sharing their big side hustle idea there is nuance here of the timing of when we are additive and how we are additive yeah yeah and that's level number two level two personal personal concerns so right before killing or dream building got a dream build not dream kill and then the last little aspects well we're not well yeah i mean they're level dreams are dreams are s tier okay dreams are really high okay so a couple notes before we get to level three here is level two also does some very nuanced things psychologically.

33:19If I could talk a little bit of psychology. Okay. So, um, I studied master conversationalists and one of those was Howard Stern.

33:28Lewis Howes:He's incredible at what he does. I mean, he, he has these incredible conversations with people where he asked questions that have never been asked it before. He can get people to open up and now, however you feel about Howard Stern, right? Like we can still learn from how he has conversations. So I studied thousands of hours of his transcripts, looking for patterns. Like how does he do it? What are the biggest things that Howard Stern does? So the biggest thing that he does, the name, the only name I could think of is like, there's a pattern here. I call it conversational confetti. Howard Stern has the unique ability to make conversation very exciting, especially in level two, by sprinkling in phrases like, what's the weirdest thing that ever happened to you?

34:08You're never going to believe yesterday, the most embarrassing thing. I couldn't believe it. The worst thing I've ever seen was the worst piece of advice, the best advice, the most embarrassing thing, the weirdest thing. And what he's doing, I was like, oh my goodness, he is creating what are called information gaps. So the brain wants to know everything. It does not like having any gaps in any information. So when the brain hears the worst piece of advice I've ever been given, the brain's like, well, what is it? Right. It creates an information gap and the brain will do anything to hear it. So we lean in, we listen better, we get excited.

34:45It creates it. And then he always answers with something really on par. Like he would never say, you know, the craziest thing happened to me yesterday. I got a coffee. He would never say that. So it's always authentic, right? I was

34:55Lewis Howes:running around naked in New York city or, you know, whatever it is. Exactly. Crazy. So like it It is one is we never use these inauthentically. In fact, what I actually want to think of is you actually have some very exciting, interesting, worst, best things. We just have to preface it. One of the things that we do here when we have a new team member and they're kind of like in their first team call, we try not to be like Howard Stern fully on, but we ask people, you know, what's your most embarrassing story? Oh, I love, you know, and it's kind of like breaking the ice in that way of like, well, reveal a little bit more about you.

35:31Lewis Howes:You can make it PG. You know, it doesn't have to be like some crazy thing here. Do you share yours? Oh, yeah. Yeah. OK, great. OK, good. But that's level two. No, we and I always make my COO share his, which he crapped his pants one time. So as an adult, you know, so I was like, OK, you know, as long as he leads with that, then anything else is free game. And then you set a vulnerability bar. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. Like you set the stage of like we all make mistakes. We all have embarrassing things. So one is just to take a step back from your stories and your conversation and just think about like, what cool stuff do I have to share?

36:02Like, what is a weird thing that happened? What's a surprising thing that I learned? What is the best advice? What's the worst advice? It's weird to think about yourself in that way, but it actually is more fun. It's more engaging for you. So I think a he's having more fun in conversation because he's thinking that way, but we can too, we can do it authentically. I would never do it inauthentically. But as I began to think about it, I was like, you know, actually there are some really funny, embarrassing moments or stories. And so now when I'm living, like just living my life, if something weird and crazy happens, I'm like, bring in this up and story tomorrow.

36:32So in a weird way, it also like adds more depth to even my day to day. So sprinkling in these kinds of conversations in creates information gaps, which we want. And the other thing I will suggest, this is a really brave one. This is really brave, but I think people are brave when we're watching. Are you ready? You could also play guessing games in conversation.

36:52Lewis Howes:Give me an example. okay this works really well with introverts too so um lewis how many kids do you have oh wait let me guess yeah yeah don't let me answer because i i just this happens i actually this i created this tip accidentally because i kept accidentally asking answering and then answering yeah no so um where do you live oh let me guess yes no no yes yes so like if i'm at like a conference and it comes up or i accidentally ask you know where are you from wait let me guess you look like a cape cod kind of person right like and then you just like you can play right or like my favorite is like um so what are your kids names let me guess or i'll guess birth order you know i'll guess where they're from that's fun just like it i know this takes a little bit of courage that's cool but it's it's playful and i think like what are we doing if we're not having a little fun in conversation 100 you know like yes some of it is very serious and we're about to get to level three and that's what gets more serious but like can we play in level two a lot of it should be play a lot of it should be play like i i love coming on here because we are playful in conversation like right we could play guessing anyway we could ever want um i think that having the courage to bring that element of play into your conversations at work at home are there certain questions you should never ask women if you're a man and are there certain questions you should never ask men if you're a woman?

38:20Why are you single?

38:22Lewis Howes:People do that a lot though, right? Don't they do that sometimes? I know. Let's not. You seem amazing, but why are you single? No, no. Any question for both men or women that puts someone on the defensive or sets them up to fail. I think it been busy is like a setup to fail question, right? Because you either have to be busy and talk about how busy you are, which by the way, the research shows talking about how busy you are makes you look less competent. So you're actually setting someone up to look and sound more incompetent. You look stressed. You don't like look like you're in control of your life or responsible.

38:54You're overwhelmed. Yeah. So like, why would you have them do that? Or they're gonna have to disagree with you. So like, why are you single? One, are they really gonna like feel comfortable sharing that? No. I also don't love the questions like, what is your greatest weakness? You know, I work with a lot of companies and we talk about hiring practices and you know, what interviews should be conversations, in my opinions, right? Like in my opinion, interviews are a way for you to connect with the interviewee to the manager and the manager to the interviewee. And so approaching every single work conversation as a conversation, even a performance review, even an interview in that we're trying to set someone up for success.

39:35And so any questions put someone that offensive, I don't love. So why are you single? What's your greatest weakness? And there's one other question that I'm a little bit careful of for both men and women, which is...

39:46Lewis Howes:How much do you weigh? No. You know, I don't even care about that one. How old are you? I mean... Who cares? I mean, who cares? Maybe not, but yeah. It's also fact-based, but it's like straight to level one, right? Right. It's not curious. Yes. One word answer. You can't be like, tell me more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How much do you weigh? Tell me more. The last question I do not like that I have problems with is what's your story? God, it's so hard. where do you want to start thank you it's like estra perel where should we begin right you know it's like it's too much it's a lot five you want to start last year you must start like right and the extrovert's going to be like well you know starting the child college years like it's it's it's too much pressure yeah and you know just mechanically speaking i was looking at the mechanics of conversation for this and the candor corpus is the biggest database on conversation and they found that turn-taking, just so we are clear, is 15 to 30 seconds.

40:41So you speak 15 to 30 seconds, I speak 15 to 30 seconds. That's helpful, right? And by the way, if you think you over-talk or you under-talk, I would recommend listening to a previously recorded call or time yourself. If you're speaking for 30 seconds and it feels too long, you might be under-talking. If you're speaking for 30 seconds and you're like, wow, that went so fast, you might be over-talking. Once we get to 45 seconds, it actually begins to feel like conversational narcissism. Like it's like, whoa, like this person's like taking up a lot of air. If you ask someone, what's your story? You're setting them up to be a conversational narcissist.

41:15It's too much. It's too much for them to say. And it's level three. Level three is self-narrative. That's the story you tell yourself about yourself. Actually, you know, your book, when you were talking about the masks we wear. Mask and masculinity. Yep. I, when I read that book, I was like, wow, this is such a great take on narrative, on self-narrative. And I was actually doing my research on self-narrative then, but it wasn't ready yet. It's kind of like the mask we wear, but it's the story we tell ourselves about ourselves. It's how we make sense of our journey and purpose in life. It's how we answer the question, how did you get to where you are today?

41:55So when somebody asks you in an Uber, what's your story? It's like trying to jump to level three and you're making me be a computational narcissist. Any version of that question, right? Like,

42:07Lewis Howes:so what's a better question to ask someone instead of what's your story? Okay. So now we have a choice, right? Like I'm like, okay, let's get ready. If you are at level three with them, I can teach you some questions, but are you like before I teach us level three and I will, I will. But like, usually level three is reserved for your most intimate closest people. Interesting. And I don't, I think maybe two or three people in your life might really truly be here. So we shouldn't go there with most people. I think a mistake that we make in work conversation, right? Work conversation is a really important aspect of culture and engagement.

42:45If companies are not thinking about work conversation, they're missing the opportunity. Work conversations are career insurance against AI. if you could have great conversations at work you have career insurance against this technology but if you go too deep too fast people are like what right if you are trying to talk self-narrative in the five minutes before your collaboration team call you're setting yourselves up for failure but

43:08Lewis Howes:i guess the level two personal kind of goals dreams is still still level two it's okay it's still great yeah right because you can you're not surface level you're still going deeper but safely deeper right like or like for example you know i notice a lot of my my team is virtual and so we have a team call every tuesday actually i had the team call on the way here today nice um and we start i noticed the beginning of our meetings were sort of i would say wasted small talk like the weather it's the weather that what'd you do this weekend launch is coming up you know it was like it was like it was accidentally negative and it was just no connection was happening at all.

43:44So I changed this a couple of years ago where I said, right when we log in, we're doing, tell me something good. We're going around really quickly. You share one really quick, good thing. I liked it.

43:53Lewis Howes:You know, I like having you on because you just reaffirm that I'm hopefully doing some things well, you know what I mean? Cause I'm like, everything you said here, I'm like, I like that because most of it, I feel like we are doing a lot of it in some way. And there's a lot of the things we can improve on. There's a reason why this is so successful, But I talked to Matt, my person who runs the business. And often I'm like, what's the good news today? Like, tell me some good news. Yes. Instead of like, what's the problem we need to fix? Because business is all about fixing problems automatically.

44:25Lewis Howes:It's like, there's always going to be some type of challenge that you're overcoming. It's never, I've sold millions of copies today. Everyone, you know, it's always something you've got to overcome. Yes. Right? Yes. That's just business in general. Yeah. But if we can frame it with what's the good news today? tell me something good to me or you especially when you feel overwhelmed or overworked or a lifeline like challenge after challenge just keeps hitting you yes tell me something good it helps you go back into the the dream building rather than dream killing and it's it's a casual way to do it and it's a gift for your introvert yeah and introverts often they're like when do i share right so like i'm an ambivert i'm somewhere in between but for what i noticed pattern wise is introverts will not share because they don't want to interrupt.

45:09They don't want to feel, they don't know if it's the right time. So if you have a norm setting in your work culture of tell me something good, it allows introverts, one, they can prep for it. They know it's coming. Two, it gives them a very boxed time. They can take 20 seconds. Oh, I have a great cup of coffee today. It can be super casual or it can be like, my daughter went to college, right? It could be like small or big. It's norm building so that I kind of have a pulse check of my team, right? Like I don't always have time for one-on-ones every week. My team is too big. but if it's something good and I can be like oh you know someone says oh my my parents are in town this week I can know cool okay like maybe I I'll try not to email after hours her parents are in town right so it allows me as a manager to just really quickly see like what's going on for you and this is the best part so uh two years ago my team member came to me and she said you know Monday is my do good day so I have something good to share in the meeting on Tuesday And I thought if you ask, if you're known for asking good questions, you set people up for goodness.

46:11Yes. Right. Like if you're, if people are, know you and like be known for asking what's good, be known for asking, have anything fun and exciting coming up because then people save that stuff for you.

46:21Lewis Howes:Yes. They're excited to tell you when they see you. They're so excited. Now I need to mention here. What if it's not good? No. Right. Like what if they don't have anything fun and exciting? It's a really hard and challenging time. great. That is an opportunity, right? I would much rather have the kind of level two relationships where I say, have anything fun and exciting. And you say, I've been really going through it. And I go, oh my gosh, tell me more. Tell me everything. So it's also an opportunity for if something is going badly, instead of how are you, there's no permission there. Right. If I ask my team member, how are you?

46:57I don't want to hear, right? Like that's like -

47:00Lewis Howes:Now you're in California, you can speak like that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. My California accent's coming back. I know. So like, if I ask, how are you? It's not really asking, how are you? It's not really. And so if I ask like anything fun and exciting, it gives you permission. We've broken the script to say it's either good or it's not good. So if it's not good or something's not fun and exciting, that is also good in that it is level two. So I think that dream building piece works. Now, level three, let's talk about self-narrative for a second. so the research shows the story you tell yourself about yourself is self-creating meaning if you tell yourself that you attract good things and you are very lucky you are more likely to see the world through a luck frame yes and what i really have been thinking about a lot with this research was this is not about the facts of your life it's about the frames of your life how do you see the facts of your life?

47:57Lewis Howes:Yes. When you begin to think about how am I interpreting the facts of my life? How is my partner? How is my kid? How is my parent? How is my colleague? You begin to see patterns. And this is the whole reason I wrote it is if we can truly see people for the patterns that they are repeating over and over again, we are truly understanding them. We are truly seeing them for who they are. And if they want to change it, the only way to change your self-narrative, really the only way, is your conversation. Really? First of all, I've done this. So, okay, these three levels exist, right? I read the research.

48:33I was like, great. I take it out in the world and I'm like, so what's your self-narrative? People are like, what? So it's a very weird level because you often cannot self-diagnose. And so how weird is that? That I can give you all the facts about self-narratives. I can tell you about frames. I can tell you about redemption versus contamination narratives. There's different types of narratives. And we can do some soul searching. We can do some journaling. But you can only get so far. It is really hard to see it without asking your best friend and your partner.

49:02Lewis Howes:My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode. And the School of Greatness drops new conversations every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday around money, mindset, healing, manifestation, and relationships. And if you're not yet following the show, then you're missing all of them. Please tap the follow button right now and you'll get notified the moment every new episode drops because the next one might be exactly what you need. Now, let's get back to the conversation. With the U.S. Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card, you earn an unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase. No quarterly activations, no categories to track, just unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase.

49:43Lewis Howes:Think about those bigger everyday purchases, travel, groceries, things for the house. where afterward you realize I could have earned cash back on that. That's the kind of opportunity that adds up over time. Visit usbank.com slash smartly card to learn more. The creditor and issuer of this card is U.S. Bank National Association, pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc. Some restrictions may apply. The most successful leaders, experts, and bestsellers would tell you the same thing. There's no expiration date on growth. That's why Southern New Hampshire University offers more than 80 online graduate programs.

50:23Lewis Howes:With career-focused courses and low online tuition, SNHU's master degrees are designed for your next move. And if you're choosing between a few schools, SNHU is a clear frontrunner. It's flexible, affordable, and career-focused. Progress doesn't happen standing still. Take one step forward at snhu.edu slash greatness. I'm curious then, Vanessa, what's the thing that you feel you struggle with the most internally or externally? Oh my gosh, yes. That all of your friends or colleagues say you're crazy because you're so good at this or you do this so well. What's the thing that you self reflect on and feel like you're not where you want to be?

51:08Charging for anything.

51:10Lewis Howes:Really? Yeah. You struggle with wanting to charge. I really struggle with wanting to charge. Why is that? People are like, you're like, what do you mean? Like, it's like, they're like, it's worth it. Or the course is worth it. Or like, you're speaking. You've seen me speak, right? Like this speaking is, but I fundamentally, this is part of my narrative is I feel like whatever I'm going to say is not worthwhile or like, it's not worthy of payment. Like, I just want to give it to you for free. Really? And so like, I really, it's the hardest part of my business is that I have to sell anything. if I could I would turn my whole business into a non-profit I would give away all my curriculum to schools and organizations I think this curriculum should be in every school but I literally have to pay my bills I have a great team I have a very high performance team you gotta pay them and I want to pay them well so I have to charge because to run this business we do need a team it's really hard to run this business you know I know it doesn't look complicated but boy it's very hard social media is hard now let me let me role play this then.

52:09Okay.

52:10Lewis Howes:For a second. Okay. No, don't fix me. What's happening? I'm not fixing you. Okay. I'm not fixing you. Okay. But are you going to fix my self-narrative? What's going on? Well, if we're talking about self-narrative, right? Yeah. Yeah. And this is part of your self-reflection. It's hard for you to charge. Yeah. Based on our relationship, would it be taboo for me to say, what age did that belief start? Is that too self-narrative-y of a conversation question no that's perfect or should i bring it back to level two and say you know what how's that hurting your dreams right right no that's perfect because like you're doing a harvesting question right like we're trying to understand i'm curious like what age did that belief or story begin in you i love it not to say like let's go into therapy for the next 60 minutes but as a self-reflection question for you to then say i don't know what you're gonna say but yeah for you to respond think about it and say how does this empower me and build my dream yeah and was our moment does this does this belief or idea serve me or yeah suppress me i think that that's that is exactly the right kind of conversation i think it it had to have been in my early 20s which is my most like awkward stage which is like the start of my career right like feeling like i don't know enough so how could i charge anything like right i was like really good at being a free intern, right?

53:32Like I was really good at that. I'll work 20 hours a day for free. That's it. I was so good at that. I also think for someone at home too, it's interesting that you would ask that question because you actually tapped into something you do naturally. One harvesting question you can ask in level three with people because they won't know. If you ask what's your self narrative, they won't know. But if you say, what would the title of your memoir be? And then what are your life chapters? So kind of that was like, oh, I wonder if that's my 20 something life chapter like there was a moment in there where i had to start negotiating for like my salary what would it would be um and i'm in my 40s now so it's still there but like i could fit it in i didn't ask her her age by the way you know so i i so asking what or thinking what's the title of your memoir what are your life chapters could you plot where the frames came in right like that i think that's tremendously helpful and like we could if we were at lunch and not on an interview we would talk about that for a long time.

54:26Lewis Howes:Yeah. Right. But for me, I mean, and maybe this is a downfall of mine because I like to, you know, and usually people that I know somewhat well, I guess, maybe not like best friends, but people that I've known for a while, I like to ask those types of questions. Yeah. And I also like people asking me those questions as well. Yeah. But not everyone does. Not everyone feels ready for that. Not everyone feels like comfortable in someone asking them a question like, what age were you when this belief began that is holding you back now from actually being free of this money conversation of feeling like you can't charge for your worth.

54:57Lewis Howes:Right. So. But, but that's good. That is good. Not everyone is your people. Yeah. So I, I think you ask that question to someone and they're like, oh wow. They think about it. You're like, great. They're my people. We can go there. And I wouldn't ask that if I'm just meeting you probably. Maybe I would, but you mean after like an hour, maybe I would ask. Yeah. If you had, if you had hit levels, you can do it in one conversation, right? You can go up in one conversation, but the person who jokes with you and, and, and brushes it off and doesn't want that question, that's not your person. Yeah. Let's stay back in level one then.

55:25Right. So like when you ask, for example, and I've asked this question to many people, like, what's the title of your memoir? Some people are jokey. And then I go, ah, they're not ready. They're not ready. Yeah.

55:35Lewis Howes:Yeah. But good to know if they're not ready or they're not my person. Cause I like level three, right? Like I like to go to level two and level three with people as quickly as possible. Yeah. So I know I'm going to get along with a new friend. Like right now, I'm literally, I moved to a new city. I'm making new brand new friends right where I am. Um, and And I want to get to level two and level three as quickly as possible. Yeah. And maybe like the, I don't know why the book title, what's the title of the book? I think it's called I'm Glad My Mom Died. Yes. Janet McCurdy. Yeah. Yes. And maybe if like you're tired, if you were originally starting with like, I'm glad my mom died.

56:07Lewis Howes:Ha ha ha. But then there's a, but then there's a subtitle of like, and how I learned to heal my inner child in the process of, you know, the relationship with my mom. Right. Then you're like, okay, they can bring a little humor, but there are also some depth there. Right. Tell me more. Right. Tell me more about that. And you just learned so much about her in one sentence. Oh, yeah. And so I think like. That's interesting. There's two things here that I would just invite people to think about, encourage people to think about, which is listening for narrative hints. People are actually leaking their narrative to you all the time in conversation if you know what to listen for.

56:41So one, you can ask those beautiful questions, right? Like that is a beautiful question of like, when did that belief start? But even if you're not asking level three questions yet, you can hear when someone says superlatives always and never. Oh, that always happens to me. I just never find that. Oh, good things always come my way. Isn't there always something? Those are actual leaps.

57:03Lewis Howes:There's never enough time, you know, whatever it is. Yeah, there's never enough time. And so that brings me to work narratives. So sometimes your entire life self-narrative is a lot, right? Like it's very deep. You might get it with your best friends, your partner. but work narratives are are safe a work narrative is a story that someone tells themselves about their success or a task so for example a work narrative you just brought one up is i had a team member every single time i had a check-in with him so busy there's never enough time there's just never enough time and i this was true at the beginning and then like we were onboarded and and then we had a launch and then we were done with our launch and i was like Like, you know, I've noticed that I have it in my notes every single time we've met.

57:45You've always said there's never enough time. Is there ever enough time? And he was like, well, isn't there? There's never. It's always the case. And I was like, but why is that always the case? And we were able to have a conversation about that idea that he was actually setting himself up to always be overwhelmed and busy because he truly didn't believe there was another way. I said, actually, I think there is another way. I don't want you to always be in. Go, go, go, go, go, go. You're going to burn out. I don't want you to feel like you're always in hustle mode. Let's create time pockets for you where you actually don't feel like that is the case.

58:18And then we are going to build them into our schedule. Because when you feel like there's not enough time, I also feel like there's not enough time. That is a very scarcity mindset. That conversation was a game changer for us. Like we were able to get more on the same page. It unearthed all these other things that want time management and task management. That's a work narrative. So also beginning to talk about how we think about our success is extremely helpful with people we work with.

58:41Lewis Howes:I mean, you're a scientist, right? You study human beings. I study behavior. Yeah. You study like social behavior, conversations, body language, all these things around human dynamics. Yes. And if our goal is to have, I mean, maybe it's not our goal, but I feel like our goal is to have beautiful relationships with human beings in our lives. It's part of the reason why we're here is you said in the beginning, one out of six people in the world feel lonely or are lonely or identify or are affected by loneliness. And therefore, there is some level of suffering that they're experiencing because of that.

59:19Maybe it's tied to something else, but if they're not feeling connected, they're going to have a worse experience in life than a better one, in my opinion.

59:27Lewis Howes:And what you said in the beginning as well is like one of the main things that we all want as human beings is to be heard, seen, understood, which essentially means we want to feel we are loved and chosen by other people. And so if everything we do in conversation should be finding ways to make people feel less lonely or make people feel more connected and really find ways to make sure people feel heard, seen and understood so they are experiencing love and the feeling of being chosen. Then shouldn't we always be asking these types of questions that lead into that feeling of life experience with the people we're closest with?

1:00:07Lewis Howes:Maybe not work team in a certain level. Maybe there's a level there, obviously, of like how deep you want to go. But shouldn't we be asking the questions around psychological blocks that hold us back from being our best selves? just like the one I did with you, which is like, when did that belief begin? Yeah. If that's something you're struggling with. Yeah. Shouldn't we be focusing on not maybe like how to overcome that more than anything else, but wouldn't that set our relationship to whole new levels if we ask those types of questions and allowed ourselves to figure them out together? Again, not fix each other.

1:00:42Right.

1:00:43Lewis Howes:But find ways to build our dream life together. I think that that is the thing that we are searching for every moment of every day. but we don't realize it. So we don't realize we are deeply searching and seeking for someone to understand my story to someone for see me who I am. So we approach conversation. We don't know. We don't really realize that's what we're going for. So we get trapped in awkward small talk because we're like, how do I get there? What do you do? Where are you from? And so yes, but. And people may not be ready to answer those questions or like help you navigate what to do because they're not an expert.

1:01:18Lewis Howes:I get it. But I do want to say, but yes, we are. If we could enter every conversation with the intention of truly seeing, truly seeking to understand and being honest and authentic enough to be understood, we all win. But there is something called vulnerability regrets. Oh, yeah. And it can happen where you share something vulnerable, but it's not actually safe. ooh, like a vulnerability hangover. Exactly. It's like, oh, what did I just do? What did I say? What did I reveal? Right. I don't feel safe. Why did I say, oh my gosh, I was met with toxic positivity. I was dismissed. Someone tried to convince me I'm not who I am.

1:02:00Yeah. And so I share that because we also need to be protected. There's a very fine line between being courageous.

1:02:07Lewis Howes:Yes. Right? Like going and asking the questions and breaking strips, but also making sure that we are protecting our core self and our core values. And so I would say like, there's no rush. Yeah, I see. Right. Like, yes, I want to approach every conversation that way, but we also need to like. Time and a place. Time and a place. And there are some days, especially at work, like the biggest myth that I am always talking to leaders about is that conversation takes away from productivity. Conversation takes away from work. No, but it creates connection. It creates connection and connection. Connected, collaborative, connected people work better.

1:02:39They work faster.

1:02:40Lewis Howes:Let's go. But there are days where you have to get it done. There ain't no time for tell me something good. There ain't no time for the discussion of how and why. So we also have to know as dynamic, nuanced human beings. Listen, I want to hear all about how that went last weekend. We got to get it done today. We are in go zone. And like, we understand that too. We understand both. Something you talk about as well in the book conversation, how to be instantly likable in any interaction. I want everyone to get the book. Oh, thank you. Kind. Lewis is like endlessly, endlessly supportive. Well, this is the type of conversation I love having because I'm just fascinated by human behavior and human beings in general because this is what I like to do.

1:03:17Lewis Howes:One of the scarcest things is going to be how you can communicate with another person in real time or in person or face time. Because we're going to be like you talk about, we're going to be just using AI or social media for a majority of our conversations rather than learning how to do this. This is one of the scariest things in the world in my mind is sitting across from another human being and speaking to them. And being willing to be awkward. It's one of the scariest things. It is so scary. It was my whole childhood, probably yours too, right? It's probably why we got into our line of work is to heal our own traumas from being awkward in front of people or being not liked or seen, right?

1:03:49Lewis Howes:Yeah. It's why I went to public speaking class. It's why I put myself in social experiments over and over again to fail and embarrass myself so that I could overcome the feeling of humiliation. And it's why you do what you do to study it, right? And it's being willing to learn through friction. Yes. awkward conversation, bad conversation is like, it's like sticky. There's a lot of friction there. Like I asked you a question, you answer with one word. You asked me a question. I don't know the answer. Like we have to learn that way. But the problem is, I think this is the last generation of humans that will learn to talk to each other by talking to each other.

1:04:25Wow. I think that more and more we have to apologize. What do we do? We go to AI and ask, how do I apologize? guys we have to write a goodbye letter we have ai write it for us we um want to ask someone out we practice with ai gosh and so i true yeah we're ai is like the new calculator yeah you know i i

1:04:47Lewis Howes:yeah we're no longer able to do addition in our brain it's true like it's true yeah you know i stopped you know i struggled in math i struggled in every subject but math was one where i was like Like once I got to, what was it? Like fractions? Something in my brain like just broke and I didn't understand it. And you want to homeschool? No. Right. No, I'm not going to be the one teaching them. I'm going to teach them life skills, not like book skills. But they bring home homework. Oh yeah. I know, right? Yeah. But fractions, like something broke my brain where I was like, I don't get this. I'm working really hard to try to understand this.

1:05:20Lewis Howes:I'm not, and I'm not going to get it. That was the age and the belief that I built this around, right? No matter how much I studied, it was like, I can't break through. And so I just never learned math after like third grade. You're like, practice is too hard. Done. I'm just going to use a calculator, right? And it's kind of like AI is like a calculator for conversations, for communication, for human dynamics. Yep. Yeah. The moment it gets hard, we go to AI. That's crazy, right? Like I, one of my friends is single. She's dating and she said to me, she said to me, all of a sudden the text, as I started getting deeper in their texting, his texts started to become very clearly AI.

1:05:56Lewis Howes:Oh my God. She's like, we could do the banter, like the back and forth in the beginning. But now she's like, I know he's using AI to reply to me. Gosh, isn't that crazy? You could have a whole AI like analysis of just saying, let me, you can almost connect it to your phone and just say, reply for me. That's what he was doing. Instead of copy and paste, it's more like, just do it for me. And here's the result that I want. Here's the outcome. I want her to think that I'm funny and smart. Oh my gosh. And so we're not even learning it. There's no friction to practice it. Like we learn conversation through a little bit of friction, right?

1:06:25Like some of these things that you're going to try and it's going to go great. And some of them you're going to try and you're going to be like, that doesn't go so great. But that's how we learn. Right? Like confidence is not the absence of awkwardness. Confidence is feeling a little awkward and doing it anyway. Amen. Right? So in really good conversation, if we're sending all of our hard math, all of our hard conversations via the AI filter. My algebra. Right. Then we get in person and someone says something to our face and we're like, how do I sound assertive? I'm a robot. How do I sound smart?

1:06:51No, we're like.

1:06:53Lewis Howes:There's no confidence. It's like, let me check. So I think like this is a real, we're up against new forces, I would say. Like we can do it, but we're up against a very new conversational challenge. And it's going to happen in every area of our life. Like, for example, it's going to happen in dating where you're not sure, am I talking to the person or am I not? Where you're practicing via AI and then you get in person, you realize you haven't had enough friction and then you're not yourself. Like, right. The friction comes from finding out who you are, like being like, oh, I'm uncomfortable with that.

1:07:21I don't like that question or I'm going to be assertive. Like that's where you find out your boundaries, your lines. So that's going to start to be harder. You also have work conversations where you say to someone, Hey, send me a strategy report. And it's really easy to ask AI to do the strategy report. And then you wonder.

1:07:36Lewis Howes:Did they actually strategize? Yeah. And then you need to write a reply back about, is it a strategy report? But you have AI write it. Do you know what I, so we're, it's all doable. We can, we can do it, but it's going to take like going to the gym. Like we're going to have to do some social reps. We're going to have to think of our conversation, our connection like a longevity hack. Right. We often think about our self-care routine and getting to the gym and going in the sauna and our skincare routine. We need to do the same thing for our social reps. Like how many social reps are you putting in?

1:08:08How many conversational reps are you putting in? Have you flexed to level three today? Are you getting to level two with your people? Make a list of the 10 people you interact with most and place them on the three levels. Are they all level one? You got some flexing to do. Right. Right. So we have to I think about like going to the gym and it makes us healthier. It makes us happier. It is a longevity hack. Like the best thing we can do for our our social wellness and our mental wellness is to have deep, connective friendships and relationships to actually like the people we work with as much as we can to actually meet with a friend.

1:08:42And this happened to me. I speak to myself, too, here where I'd go to dinners and we weren't talking about anything. You know, you'd go to dinner and be like, and you spent an hour and a half and you're like, I just want to go watch Netflix. Like, I just want to go home. And you wonder, I had this where I was like, I am talking a lot and I don't feel connected. And so this is a thing that we're going to have to work at. I think it's so worth it, but I think it's going to be work.

1:09:12Lewis Howes:Wow.

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1:10:20Lewis Howes:This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you could wake up tomorrow and be better at one thing, I'd choose being more present. Putting the phone down, getting out of my head, and giving the people in front of me my full attention. Better doesn't have to come from major victories. It can be the small habits you create and how you honor your needs on a daily basis. Better is a feeling defined by you. And for BetterHelp, it's a BetterHelp therapist who really gets you. It's a focus on global emotional well-being with thousands of therapists and millions of members in over 100 countries. It's progress.

1:10:55Lewis Howes:And sometimes getting better means handling stress differently, communicating more clearly, or simply taking better care of yourself. Haven't tried BetterHelp yet? Well, it's easy to get started. Just answer a few questions and get matched with a therapist online. Sign up and get 10 % off at betterhelp.com slash greatness. That's betterhelp.com slash greatness. Now I'm curious about, you know, your whole premise of your book is how to be instantly likable in any interaction. And a lot of people think about likability as having like charisma or magnetic energy. do you have to be charismatic or magnetic in order to be likable?

1:11:38Lewis Howes:And also, are you born with charisma or is charisma a skill that you can develop? Okay. Well, the good news is charisma is absolutely a skill we can develop. Yes, there are people who are born charismatic, but it's a skill we can develop. And the funny thing is the reason why your question is, don't get mad at me. It's a bad question. No, no, don't get mad at me we changed the subtitle you changed it oh man this is the galley okay this is but like it's a good it's really worthwhile talking about because the new subtitle but i want to hear the answer yeah yeah yeah that's why i'm like let's dig in because this is a whole thing you know how subtitles are a thing um so the new subtitle is um how to connect with anyone and how to make every interaction count why because i was worried about this subtitle because it assumes that you have to be likable in a reaction.

1:12:28And sometimes that's not the goal. Right, right, right. And I think like to your question, that likability is important. And I have a whole chapter about five likable phrases and we talk about telling more. Yes, but it's not the only goal. The goal is to actually make every interaction count. That's the actual goal. The actual goal is to connect. But if you're unlikable, does it count? Yeah. But if you're connecting, is it good?

1:12:56Lewis Howes:But then you have to be likable as you're connecting. Do you? I don't know. I don't know if that's the one concept. Well, I guess there's levels of connection. Right. If you're at the F level, you're kind of connecting, but not really. Right. There's a depth of connection, right? But at least you are talking deeply and maybe feeling understood or having them feel understood. Like, for example, you could get to level three. Learn someone's self-narrative and not like it. True. You could be with, let's just say, a coworker that you don't particularly like. you could be with a co-worker and not like them not that that ever happens yeah you don't like them but you do need to understand them and you do want to make interactions with them count and you do want to better predict their behavior yeah so if you can still get to level three with them even though you're not like yay we really like each other and so i took it away that makes sense so the sub title yeah maybe it's not like love someone but it's more of like do you maybe to appreciate but respect their ability to communicate yes even if you don't like their preferences or you're willing to put in the work yeah right like you're willing to put in the work to be like where are we right like and this happens a lot with with you know there's two types of narratives there's actually far five archetypes there's two narratives a contamination narrative and a redemptive narrative a redemption narrative is someone who feels that no matter what they do through their hard work and their grit and their resilience they'll overcome yes contamination narrative you know right it's someone who no matter what they do life is always throwing them bad circumstances.

1:14:17They're unlucky. They can't do anything. They can't get out of it. Those folks can be very unlikable. They also don't like themselves. Right. So likability actually is less important than them feeling understood. And for you to ask, when did that start?

1:14:33Lewis Howes:Right. When did that start that you thought that the world was against you? Yeah. And how is that supporting you? And how is that supporting your dreams? And do you want it to keep supporting you? I don't have to necessarily like that about you or like you for that but i think that oh i love likeability and look i like we i do talk about it in level one especially because level one it's great if you like someone wow it's great it's like lubricant right if you like something someone everything's smoother you laugh easier so i love likeability but it's not the it's not the subtitle because it's not the only goal okay let's talk about charisma for a second though yeah does does a person have to develop the skill of charisma in order to be more likable and create better connection as long as it's authentic?

1:15:18Lewis Howes:Because charisma can also come off as like, ah, it's like they're fake or they're like putting on a performance or they're showy or they're all about themselves. Yes. If you define charisma in a research backed way, I define charisma as a perfect blend of warmth and competence. That's cool. That if someone shows up and they are open, trustworthy, good intentioned, warm, but also competent, productive, effective, can get it done. That is essential for someone to get along with you, work with you. That way you're answering the two basic questions about human beings. Can I trust you and can I rely on you?

1:15:55If you can answer those two questions, then that person is going to be charismatic. So if you define charisma in that way, if you are authentically warm and authentically competent, you cannot fake competence for very long. You can do it for a little bit, right? Anyone can fake sounding smart, but not for very long. You can fake warmth for a little bit, but not for very long. So if you have authentic warmth and competence, it's actually a signaling issue. Like the research gave me the chills when I read this research, because you can be the warmest, most competent person in the room. But if you are not signaling that warmth and competence, people do not believe it.

1:16:28Lewis Howes:Wow. So you have to signal warmth and competence at the same time otherwise people won't believe it that's it so how do you signal it okay so charisma really charismatic people they're just signaling more they're good at signaling yes so it's more of like learning the game of signaling that's rather than just being yourself which just kind of feels a little inauthentic but like don't you know that person who is super super smart and super trustworthy but no one believes them because they don't show it yeah because they don't have like the courage to like put yourself out there like hey you're amazing like it's really about courage.

1:17:01Interesting. It's less, yes, authenticity, but it's actually about courage. It's like most of my students, most of my students are super smart, super warm, but they under signal.

1:17:10Lewis Howes:Interesting. They're the danger zone. I call it the danger zone. The danger zone is all my really smart, high achieving students who just, they just aren't signaling their smarts and their warmth. And so they hold back and they're underestimated and they're overlooked. It's the starving artist in my mind who's like in their, I mean, in their basement or whatever, are just like masters at their craft. So good. So talented, but they're like, but I'm waiting for someone to discover me. I'm not going to put myself out there and like... Because they don't have the courage. Yeah. So it's Starving Artists.

1:17:39And the other big one, the other big one right now, so it's Starving Artists and Brilliant Entrepreneurs. I have so many students who are like the tinkerers, the entrepreneurs, they have this great side hustle, great idea, and they have the best business. They're afraid to put it out there? But they're afraid to talk about it. Why?

1:17:52Lewis Howes:Because they're afraid to fail, afraid to be criticized, afraid to be judged. You know, it feels uncomfortable to clearly signal warmth and competence if you don't have a lot of belief in yourself. So entrepreneurs, they'll have a belief in their idea, but not themselves. And that kills me because I'm like, I watch Shark Tank, right? I love Shark Tank because you see some entrepreneurs, they believe in their ideas and they believe in themselves. Their pitches go great. And they get invested. Yes, because we like people who believe in themselves. We like people who believe in their own warmth and competence.

1:18:23So these starving artists or brilliant entrepreneurs, they are so they know their numbers. They have their pitch deck. They have this great business idea, but they don't believe in themselves. And so they get in the room, they get to investors, they go networking events and they can't get buy-in because they're just under signaling. And I hate this, but I hate this, but you can have the best idea in the world. If you don't know how to show it or share it, it will not get heard.

1:18:49Lewis Howes:So what is the best way to signal that you have competence and confidence, I guess? Well, it's enough confidence to show your warmth and competence. Yes. If we're going to play with the words. Competence and confidence. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Competence and warmth. So what are the signals when you're in person or in a group or on a stage or in a board meeting or around colleagues or any of these things without bragging about yourself? Like, oh, I can do this and I can do that. That's the worst. Right. Like, that's the worst. OK, so the first thing is to understand that there are different channels that we use to communicate.

1:19:17There are four different channels. This is actually my last book, Q's. So verbal, the words you use. nonverbal your body language your gestures your facial expressions vocal how i say my words my pace my volume my cadence and my ornaments the colors i wear the ornaments what i'm holding my profile picture what's on your set those are all actually showing warmth and confidence think about if you pop on a video with someone and they have credentials behind them competent yeah they have family pictures warm my both of those might be true right right right both of those might be true but it's just signaling.

1:19:51You chose what you're going to have behind you, either your credentials or family photos, but both are true. That's why it's like, this is less about authenticity in the traditional sense and more about what do you want to signal? You have choice. All four of those channels, you have choice. And there are things that -

1:20:05Lewis Howes:Kind of like your personal brand. It's your charisma flavor. Exactly. How you present yourself. That's it. So I believe you can kind of create a recipe for your brand. You can create a recipe for your charisma flavor. For example, look at Oprah and Steve Jobs. Both of those people are charismatic, but they signal totally differently. They have their own blend of cues. And this is really important because sometimes I'm like clipped on social media of like, always do blah or never do blah, because I know that they go crazy. But really, I want you to create your recipe, right? Like some cues will work for some people and some won't work for others.

1:20:40Like for example, like this is a steeple. This is a high competence cue. So when we touch the tips of our fingers together for anyone who's just listening. You touch the tips of your fingers together to make like a little steeple. This is rated research wise as the most competent gesture a leader can make. Come on. Rated. Yes. As the most competent gesture leader can make. It's kind of like a power pose for the hands. It makes you look sort of wise and thought out. Now don't drum. That's very evil. Right. Like that's very, that little difference. I'm going to take over the nuclear power plant.

1:21:10Right. So just like that, just even that is different. Right. Like, so this poise versus like drumming. So you can choose to do a steeple to look competent if you feel competent, if you want to. But some people are like,

1:21:23Lewis Howes:it feels weird. It feels weird. Great. It's like a power move or something. Great. So that's why like Kevin O 'Leary on Shark Tank. He's always doing this. He's always doing it. And that is natural to him. And he kind of taps like this. Yeah, he taps. He's thinking. And you know, when he's tapping, he's really processing the math. That is on brand for him. He is thinking about something highly competent and he is signaling it. we love it right like it is that clarity of signal and that alignment with his brand fits i would never want you to do this people if you're like feel silly i feel silly right then i'm going to give you other competent ideas other competent cues there are 97 cues to choose from so you can choose pick and choose so another competent one if you don't like the steeple three that you do a lot okay so my favorite my favorite three in my recipe right this is not gonna work for everyone but in my recipe is i'm working pretty hard to stay in the lowest end of my natural tone.

1:22:11Not up high. So like when I'm talking to my girls or my kids, I'm usually talking up here. And if I'm talking up here for the whole interview, you'd be like, what is she doing? She sounds like really crazy, you know, but that's still, those are both natural to me, but I like using the lower end of my voice, like the basement of my voice. It helps me feel more grounded. I know when I am going a little higher, I need to take a deep breath. I'm going to lower my shoulders so it's it's my own internal signal but i also know it's clearly signaling to you that i feel good so a lower tone is one of my favorite cues that's also could be called a power tone i also would recommend at the end of your sentence hitting it at the end so not going up but going down so instead of my name is vanessa instead my name is vanessa we're like that is going to give a totally different vocal first impression okay so going down at the end of your sentences thinking about using the lowest tone of your voice that's one of my favorite cues um i do use a steeple on the cover of cues so i do i do like that cue occasionally but i know it can run people the wrong way and then another it's so hard to pick favorite cues the other one that i really like would be a lower lid flex so a lower lid flex is when i harden my lower lids um universally human beings do this when they're trying to see better or hear better or scrutinize or listen it is um a cue of intensity i'm a pretty intense person i don't know like when you're talking to me right like i'm like with you so i kind of it fits my brand um and so if i'm going to do a lower lid flex it shows you like i am so deeply listening to you that i want to like see everything yeah that's what that works for me not everyone that's beautiful so what is the new subtitle of the book okay the new subtitle how to connect with anyone and make every interaction count it's beautiful i'm like really happy that you brought up like ability thing because i haven't been able to talk about why and that nuance.

1:24:04And I, I think that really the, what we need to be doing right now is connecting. That's more than more important than being likable.

1:24:11Lewis Howes:And it's, you know, my thing is having the courage to put yourself out there and knowing it's not going to be perfect in every interaction, you know, and the more you do those social experiments with yourself, just the more human you're going to be and the more likable you're going to be and you're going to make these conversations count. Okay. Wait, I have two challenges. If you want to be brave. Okay. Challenge number one, the safer one, but so good. Sit down with someone and invite them for a cornerstone conversation. A cornerstone conversation are these foundational conversations with people who matter to you.

1:24:44Could be a partner, could be a colleague, could be a best friend, could be a parent, could be a sibling.

1:24:48Lewis Howes:Do you tell them this is a cornerstone conversation? You tell them, you send them this interview and say, Lewis and Vanessa told me that we should have a cornerstone conversation and I love you so much or I care about you so much. I picked you. Then I want you to do all the questions we talked about in this interview or the nine power questions in here. I have three questions per level. You start with level one and you work your way up to level nine, but level three, right? The ninth one is the hardest, right? So you work your way up. That experience of going through those questions together is transformative.

1:25:17It will level up the relationship or not, depending on who it is you're talking to. Okay. So like you want to pick carefully. That's challenge number one. That's interpersonal. My intrapersonal challenge, like my, just for your own growth, if you're willing is to do a yap challenge. So yap challenge is practicing the feeling of sharing your idea with authority. Even if you're uncomfortable, I want you to very briefly prepare for something that you believe in a piece of advice or a tip. I want you to turn on your camera, press record and film yourself for 60 seconds talking about that idea and then stop.

1:25:51Don't edit it. Post it. yeah one time one time don't take 20 no re-records no go because you'll feel what it feels like it doesn't work in front of the mirror it just doesn't work as well to feel what it's like in your body to feel uncomfortable and to do it and to push you need stakes because if you just say i'm gonna record this 20 times so i feel like it's ready and that's tricky because when you've

1:26:13Lewis Howes:never done it before you're like i don't sound good whoa i don't oh my gosh my voice waivers yeah oh my gosh i don't use any hand gestures i'm like an idiot oh my gosh but like tell them it's for me. Like, send it to me. That's fine. Like if you have one piece of advice for me, your favorite conversational tip, send it to me just as practice. I think that we're flexing, we're flexing. This is powerful, Vanessa. I want to, I want people to get the book, make sure you guys grab it. Conversation, how to make every conversation count. There you go. And be likable, hopefully a lot more. I also do, yeah.

1:26:43Lewis Howes:Because likability is one of the, I think it's seven levels of influence by robert chaldean i think likability is one of them liking is what it's called so there is something to being likable as well um they can follow you anywhere online v van edwards on social media your youtube your instagram all these places your website is also science of people.com science of people i do a social strategy every monday and an icebreaker so you can use them in your team meetings or your conversations you have an amazing newsletter if you want to understand on all these things better too. They can get the book right now and a couple final questions for you.

1:27:22Lewis Howes:What is the question? Because you're, we're not going to say you're true age, but you know, early, early forties, right? You said it. Okay. What's the question your 50 year old self would love to ask you right now that will support you in having the best decade of your forties? If your 50 year old wasn't funny, of you right now and said, Vanessa, here's one question I want you to think about. That's going to change everything from your relationships to business, to kids growing up, to you becoming this, you know, empowered version of yourself. What's the question your 50 or 51 year old self would be asking you?

1:28:03Maybe just because you've been doing it one way, does it mean you can't do it another? Like, I think I've been in this business for so long. You know, I posted my first YouTube video in 2007. Wow. Right. I've been posting a tip a week for 20 years. Right. Yeah. And I've been doing it the same way. And I think it's time to maybe think of a different way. I think it's maybe time. And so the question is like, could you do it a different way? So I'm thinking about some different ways to do it.

1:28:34Lewis Howes:It's beautiful. It's beautiful. I've asked you this question before, but I'm going to ask you from a new chapter. You know, I guess the last time you were on was four years ago. Yeah, four years ago. So imagine you get to live as long as you want, but it's the last day on earth and you get to create and reimagine or reinvent your life in any way you want to from this moment till then. Yeah. You get to live as long as you want, but for whatever reason, you got to take all of your work with you. So this new book is gone. This conversation is gone. All your content gone on the internet forever. Yeah.

1:29:01Lewis Howes:But you get to leave behind three final lessons to the world, three truths for you. What would those three truths be? Funny because I've done this with you before. So it's cool to see, you know, how my own work has changed. Ask for stories, not facts. Like if you just that will get you so far. Connection is better than going to the gym or just as good as going to the gym. And if you're lonely, you're not alone. You know, I think like I've had moments of being lonely in very crowded places. You know, I was lonely in Austin, even though I was surrounded by friends. And that was like, what's going on?

1:29:42Somebody's off. Yeah.

1:29:44Lewis Howes:Interesting. And if anyone's like that, I would just say like, you're not alone. And it's not a prescription. Like it's a state. It can be fixed. Yeah. That's beautiful. Final question. What's your definition of greatness? Oh, do I stick with my original answer? Always questioning yourself, others, always questioning, always learning. Vanessa, thanks for being here. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me again. My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode right now because we are on a mission to impact a hundred million lives every single week. And every follow here on this podcast helps us reach more people.

1:30:22Lewis Howes:Make sure to hit the follow at the top of this show's page right now. It's the single biggest thing that you can do to support the show and the impact of us reaching you every single time we have new episodes. I appreciate you. And I can't wait to see you in the next episode. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

1:31:02Lewis Howes:Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

1:31:54We'll be right back. Visit the Wayfair store today at Edens Plaza and Wilmette.

1:32:27Lewis Howes:will get your jobs done well. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project at Angie.com.