Why No Is More Powerful Than Yes | Chris Voss

21:05Lewis Howes:Right, right. If I'm falling asleep, then I need to, you know, reset the interview. I need to paraphrase it so I can stay focused and present too.

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23:58Lewis Howes:Some restrictions may apply. Something I learned early on. Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate it. And I think it stemmed from an insecurity and a lack of confidence early in my 20s, once I was kind of getting into the... So you're saying you're a flawed human being? Very flawed human being, yes. After I got done playing arena football and lost my identity, I was like, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? Like this was my whole goal is playing professional football. Now I got injured. I can't play anymore. What do I do? Do I really have skills? Am I talented? Is anyone going to hire me?

24:33Lewis Howes:I didn't know. Right. And I started going to these networking events in Columbus, Ohio to try to meet people, kind of these business networking events. and I remember I was like, wow, everyone's, you know, 5, 10, 20 years older than me. They're all wearing suits. You know, I have one sport jacket and a t-shirt, right? Everything about this environment is designed to make you feel inadequate. Exactly, everything. And I didn't have a job and all these different things. And I was like, okay, what value can I bring to this networking event, right? I'm not as smart or talented or successful as these professionals.

25:09Lewis Howes:And I remember being very intimidated. And I said, you know what? I'm just going to go here and have fun and ask interesting questions and listen. And I'm not going to try to act like I can. Actually listen. I'm just going to listen to whoever's in front of me. I'm not going to look around and see who else is here, who's more powerful, who's more interesting, who's coming in the door. I'm just going to stare into someone's eyes. Not in a creepy way, but I'm going to connect. Yeah, yeah, yeah, connect. And really ask interesting, genuine questions and shut my mouth. And I started doing this this first night.

25:37Lewis Howes:And people and I did it with like a joyful energy right like a childlike curiosity I was just like really curious. I was like wow and I would and I would do a follow-up question Tell me more about that. Tell me more. That's interesting. How did this happen with this and at the end of the night? People came up to me like you gotta meet Lewis. He's such an interesting guy. He's so cool He's so he's so interesting, but they didn't know anything about me. I never shared anything about me I was so curious about them and I realized right then I was like, oh to be interesting you have to be interested in other people yeah and you can you can build incredible relationships by showing how much you care how interested you are in people and make it about them as opposed to making about you yeah and that was essentially what i started doing i said okay i'm just going to use this insecurity of not feeling like i'm smart enough lean into it use the things i am good at which is curiosity joy you're passionate i'm playful i'm you know I'll joke with people and just try to make people feel connected and feel like their story is really inspiring, which it is to me.

26:38Lewis Howes:And that is kind of what I did with the podcast. It's just like, okay, you're way smarter than me. You've got these skills, this experience that I don't have. Let me be fascinated. Now, I've interrupted you and I'm talking right now, but in general, it's like, well, tell me more. That's interesting. Well, how can I use this in my life? Yeah, and you threw out inadvertently a couple of different superpowers. curiosity like you know we got a block of instruction we teach called caviar the seeing caviar is curiosity it's about getting yourself in the right head space Nassim Nicholas Taleb wrote a book Anti-Fragile he says curiosity is an anti-fragile characteristic and curiosity is a highly positive frame of mind I cite this guy's TED talk so many times the happiness advantage Sean Acker he says you're 31 % smarter and positive frame of mind.

27:33Curiosity is highly positive. Everybody in all these different places talk about curiosity as an avenue to success for a variety of reasons. You pick up more, you're interested, you pay attention. The other person feels very connected with when you're genuinely curious. Playful. Another highly positive frame of mind. Kotler talks about flow. Stephen Kotler says flow is highly positive, even playful. pre-adolescents walk around essentially in borderline flow all the time they're playful

28:07Lewis Howes:jumping around trying you know climbing on people you're just singing dancing you're just playing yeah yeah and so you take that attitude into a business environment and suddenly everybody else everybody there's going like hey this kid over here with this old sport coat yeah tennis shoes is the most interesting character here. Come over and meet this guy. Uh-huh. Anybody can do that. Yes. If they, yeah, if they go like, all right, so I'm an idiot and I don't have any credentials and I don't know anything and I'm unemployable because I have no skills. Let me go out and see what happens. I mean, how are you going to go down from there?

28:45Lewis Howes:Yeah, you can. How are you going to embarrass yourself? You're going to be like, all right, so I am a goofball. Let me go in here and I'll be a goofball. I'll be happy. And figure out a way to bring value in your unique way. I'm curious, what is the most frequent question word that you use? Who, what, when, where, why? Ah, all right. All right, so we only use questions to create, calibrate thinking in the other person's brain. To start with. Like, I'm not going to ask you a question to get information. I'm going to ask you a question to put a thought in your head. For example, when I'm working on a free upgrade to a suite in a hotel, which I work on every time, I don't get every time.

29:31What's your success rate?

29:32Lewis Howes:What's your success rate? The success rate is probably in excess of 90%. Really? Which is also going to be impacted by inventory. Right. If there's no inventory and there's really no inventory, it's... They can't give you a suite they don't have. But maybe they can give you something else. Or, you know, they're going to look at their inventory. The first thing, do they have any suites? The second, how many nights in a row do I want a suite? Like if I'm rolling in there and I'm almost always late because I'm traveling. Sure. If they only got one suite and I'm staying one night and it's after six, they could give me that one suite.

30:08They can use up their inventory because I'm out in the morning. And at six o 'clock at night, they're willing to gamble that nobody's coming in and taking it. if I'm there for three nights I'm not getting that suite if that's the only one they have because they got to leave it open so but I got to ask in a way that doesn't limit me to the suite right because I want them to feel good about the interaction so throw other stuff on the table like I'm in a hotel in Dallas probably about a year ago I didn't think about it until I walked in the door parking lot's full of Range Rovers. I walk inside. There are no shortage of women that are dressed to the nines.

30:55Almost all of them are company. But I mean dressed to impress. I get up to the counter and I do the suite thing and the guy's like, yeah, we got a wedding party here. Range Rovers, expensive. Expensive outfits. Are they out of suites? more than likely. Right. So I do the pitch. He's like, man, you know, we got a wedding party here. They're taking all the sweets. So I asked him the question, is it a ridiculous idea for you to make it up to me at the bar? Now think about the absurdity of that question. Yeah. Like I'm asking for something for free that I never should have had in the first place and if you don't give it to me, now you got to make it up to me?

31:39That's good. I like that. That's hysterical. That's great. And so a guy goes, no, no, no, no. As a matter of fact, he comes around the county and he gives me like five, six free drink tickets at the bar. And I'm like, you know, I got to leave myself in a position to get other stuff.

31:52Lewis Howes:What's the go-to approach for anyone trying to get an upgrade? Well, so first of all. For a car upgrade, a hotel upgrade. You got to understand, since it's not about you, how do they see it? And so, and then like it's an emotional journey. And the journey is how it ends, not how it begins. You know, the last impression is the last impression. I got to take them to this great place. That's going to be three steps. Give it to me. Now, in a hotel, I'm going to be like, look, man, I'm getting ready to ruin your whole day. That's the first thing you say. Well, you got to give them your ID. Right, right, right.

32:31Credit card, ID. They got to find your reservation. Right. Because they're going to be distracted. They're going to be multitasking.

32:36Lewis Howes:So they say, hey, you're checking in? Yeah, I'm checking in. Find a reservation. If you got a points number, you give them the points number. You got to wait for the moment. And you go like, I'm getting ready to ruin your day. Now, and you got to stop and you got to wait. They tell you to go on. Now, from a hotel, from the hotel's perspective, like they have seen every horrible thing you could imagine. Oh, I'm sure. You know, do you have a goat in your bag and you want to do a satanic ritual sacrifice in a room? Right. Which we are never going to be able to get down on the walls. Yeah, exactly.

33:07Like they've seen every horrible thing.

33:09Lewis Howes:you know animal feces whatever it is everything so when you say that they immediately go to all this horrible stuff no because you're gonna you're gonna take you're gonna take them to a better place so you say first are you ready for me to I'm getting ready to ruin your day oh man and you let that sink in and and then they go and then so now you gotta you start bringing them out of it how are you gonna say how are you gonna seem to them if you're somebody who's asking for stuff for free uh huh you're cheap right you're another cheap entitled self-centered traveler who's demanding and so I'm like I'm sure again it's not it's not a denial it's an admission a prediction I'm sure I'm going to seem like another self-centered unappreciative demanding traveler who thinks the sun rises and sets on who wants something for nothing.

34:13Now, you no longer have a goat in your suitcase. No, ritual sacrifice is not involved. You want something for free. Yes. They immediately start to feel better in relief. Yes. Now, because you asked me about questions. So now we get to the question to create a state of mind. The last obstacle is going to be how much trouble they're going to get into. If they give me a free suite upgrade. Now, there's a colleague standing there. I've done this while the boss was standing there. The manager, yeah. I've done this literally while the manager was standing next to listen to this whole thing. They may need to go find a manager.

34:54So how much trouble am I going to get you in if I ask for a free upgrade to a suite? Because the last thing that's going to go through their mind that they have to reconcile before they make the move is whether or not they're going to get in any trouble. I lay this out in one hotel in New York. And as a woman standing next, because you're almost always going to get it in front of somebody. This works in front of other employees. It works in front of customers. You don't got to be in a vacuum. And the boss jumps in and says, because you asked nicely, let me see what I could do. She starts checking the inventory.

35:33I want to be there for four nights. and she says, look, if you can guarantee me that when you check out on Friday, you're out of here before 10 o 'clock in the morning, I've got an upgrade for you, but I've got late checkout problems on Friday morning. You cannot have a late checkout. Wow. And I'm like, you got it. I'll come down in my pajamas if I've got to get out in there in time.

35:58Lewis Howes:Wow. Okay, so the three steps is I'm getting ready to ruin your day. Some type of approach. of because what are you getting ready to do you're getting ready to give them something negative yes and the second one is acknowledging that you're coming across as another greedy demanding customer that expects the world to open up for them and have something for free and then the third one is tell me the third question how much trouble am i going to get you in if i ask you a free upgrade to a suite. Now, and this, like this emotional journey and really, the point is always leaving people better than you found them.

36:39And, you know, they've been through a lot. Like, they want to help you. If they would love to help you, the first thing is, do you appreciate what it is for them? Like this, this poor schmuck behind the counter. You can yell that by everybody. You know, And everybody's going for a free upgrade. And I had a friend of mine who had this really entertaining one, but the success rate was really low. He's telling me, he says, you mean to tell me if the president of the United States wasn't coming in here tonight, you wouldn't have a suite? And the clerk says, of course we were. He said, well, the president ain't coming.

37:14Give it to me. That's really entertaining. But it left the guy resentful. Like one hotel I'm in where I get the upgrade for several nights, an hour after i check into the room my plans change dramatically i got to check out the following morning i'm not staying two nights now by and large they are completely entitled based on the terms of the contract to charge me for the second night right you know i've agreed to that. I go down the next morning and I said, look, I am so sorry. This is my problem. This is not your problem. Because it was my problem. And if I asked to check out without getting charged, their first reaction was like, look, dude, that's your problem.

38:02Bad planning on your part is not constituted emergency for me.

38:08Lewis Howes:Yeah. We're a business. We got stuff to do too. You screwed up why should we pay so that's what they're gonna think so i they're gonna think it's my problem so i've left them with really positive residue from the day before because they felt great about helping me out and i said look i'm sorry it's my problem i don't know what what is it what is it what is it i go my plans have changed i gotta check out i gotta i gotta go home and like oh no no worries no worries we'll get you out here what can we do i mean leaving because you even after the deal, you always need some sort of collaboration from somebody.

38:40You're going to need something. It doesn't matter what it is. And even if you don't need something, you want them to feel like they helped you, they felt good about helping you. The hotel staff, they realized that you could give them a great social media review as a result, which is going to be really good for their business. They don't want to get clobbered over the head. They don't want to say, well, I'm an influencer and if you give me a free upgrade i will broadcast it to all of my 75 followers on instagram that this is a great hotel like everybody thinks they're an influencer yeah well they want that they just don't want to get clubbed with it so if they liked helping you just because something about the interaction instead of making them feel uneasy and it feel like they collaborated with another human being that saw their challenges then all that other stuff that you want to use as primaries now great fringe benefits, social media, commentary I'm going to put a video on my Instagram about how cool the room is or how great the view is or I'm in downtown Detroit and how revitalized downtown Detroit is and this phenomenal hotel suite that I'm in that I'm like, I'll move in here this is so nice so I'll put that out there but I don't want them to I don't want to use it against them I don't want to leverage it against them I want them to feel like I did it because I wanted to

40:07Lewis Howes:and because it was neutral game what would you say then are the three biggest mistakes you see a lot of people doing in negotiations trying to club somebody with their leverage explaining I gotta go first I gotta set an anchor out You know, anchoring on price or terms is just such a bad idea, and so many people love to do it. Can you give me an example of what that means? Like if I know I want to pay$100, and I'm saying, look, the best I can do is like$25. You know, you go to the side on the open market, I want to pay$100, and I want you to work me up there. The real problem with extreme anchoring from the beginning, I think all season negotiators have learned, it drives deals from the table.

41:00Like, I don't want to miss out a deal because my extreme anchor on the price of the terms at the beginning was so extreme that you're like, I can never come close to this. When we should have made the deal. We should have figured out a way to work it out. Price doesn't break deals, doesn't make deals, it breaks them. You don't make a great deal based on price. You can break a deal on price. If you try to undercut extremes. Somebody's going to get mad, they're going to walk away. You're going to get a heck with you. You insult me with that offer, and they just don't realize how many deals they drive away from the table.

41:37Lewis Howes:Interesting. If someone wants to get a better price on something. So that was, I think, first off, before I ask that question, that was the second, I think, mistake. Like, was there another big mistake people make in negotiations? The price, extreme price anchoring, using too much leverage to try to club someone. Was there another big one? What a lot of people do that's actually taught out there a lot, which is really bad, is continue to ask for stuff after you've made a deal. Like, ask for free stuff. That's the worst, right? We've made a good deal. People hate it. Here's a win-win. And now you're asking more and more and more.

42:09Lewis Howes:It's going to leave a sour taste in some small. That's every time. And that's taught out there regularly. Really? it was you know there was a negotiation guru from the 80s and I can't remember what he called it but he gave the example you go out and you get a custom made suit and you made the deal for the suit and one of the guys measuring you you say so how many free ties do I get with that and he said that's a great way to get free things free little things after they made the deal throw on a pocket square throw on a couple ties throw on a couple legs whatever it is you know what and what that does is make the person you did it to hate you, which they're going to resent it.

42:51And if they have the opportunity to fail to comply with any term, they will do that. Now, unfortunately, that's taught really extensively and it's done in business all the time. People call it scope creep, feature creep. Interesting. Like it drives every single business person crazy because they don't know how to deal with it. Now, the black swan method, you know, you might say, if you were good at how questions, you might say, how can I give you free ties and continue to want to do business with you? You know, how can I be a great tailor for you if you ask me for free stuff and it cuts my margin?

43:34Right. You know, make what they ask for the obstacle to what they want. either what you want as a path or if what they want is bad, it's the obstacle. You know, how can I serve the needs of your family if you're cutting into my profit margins? You know, there's got to be a way to wake somebody up to it because a lot of people have been taught that they don't know any better. Like if I'd have stuck to that training that I learned from this guy back in the 1980s, I'd have thought it was okay because I'm getting free ties all over the place. Like a lot of people, if they don't know any better how do you wake them up so that if they only knew they'd change now there's some people that are doing it on purpose if you do something like that to me because you didn't know any better let me see if I can wake you up if I can wake you up awesome we've got a great long term relationship if I can't wake you up I now know and I'm probably like okay cool this is the last deal I make with this guy This is a one and done.

44:38This is a one and done. I'm out. But I need to know if you just did it by accident. I got a job negotiation. Recently brought somebody onto my company. Thought we had the deal settled.

44:51Lewis Howes:And the new employee. New employee. Yeah. Because employment contracts like any other. And this person brings up a bunch of other stuff. After we've laid out the terms, we've written the offer letter, we sent the offer letter. offer letter doesn't get signed silence not a good sign my director of operations who knows no oriented questions she's this person an email have you given up on signing the offer letter immediately comes back with a bunch of you know not ridiculous benefits. More asks. More asks, which are not on a plate. Some of them are like, wow, that was interesting. I never thought of that one.

45:40Now we can't do that, not in a million years. This is stuff I aspire to. But not you now. We can't do it now. But no, I like this one. It's just not in the package now. But my director of operations is like, I never had somebody come back. And I'm like, okay, first I got to do is I got to find out, did this person just not know any better? So I engaged in the conversation and I said, all right, so however this goes, I want you to understand two things. First of all, I'm glad it came up now as opposed to six months from now. But secondly, this is a bad habit to bring stuff up after the deal has been cut.

46:19So I'm guessing you just didn't know any better and you were uncomfortable bringing it up. But if you come on board first, First, you got to understand we don't do this to people. And you got to learn we work all the little stuff out before we think we have an agreement instead of going for little stuff after the agreement. Right. And this person was like, hey, you know, I didn't know. And my intention is to help build the company. And I appreciate you. Let me know. And I understand where you're coming from. They were genuine about it. They were very genuine. I needed to know that. Yeah. Like was this person advised to do this?

46:56Do they do it by accident? Or do they do that because this is going to be the predictor of future behavior, which now we have a real problem because if this is a habit that you're born with, you are not going to last and you can't represent me because the people that work on my team are also my ambassadors. I got to find out what's one it is. And I go back and we talk it through and we settle everything out. and I got a list of things to aspire to for employee benefits because these are great things.

47:31Lewis Howes:Sure. So to finish that up, one of the worst things you can do is ask for more and more and more and more things after the negotiation has been agreed on. Right. Do that before the final agreement is what I'm hearing you say. Yep. Yes. If someone's looking to buy... Nice paraphrase, by the way. You want to make sure I capture that. Wanting to buy something, acquire something, whether they're buying a business, a car, a house, some potential expensive item, a jewelry, something of more value than$1 ,000. And they might be able to negotiate a lower price. You mentioned the extreme price anchoring, how that is a mistake.

48:17Lewis Howes:There's a house for a million dollars. I'll give you 200 grand for it. Right. But you want to get a better deal. Right. Maybe it's a Rolex. Maybe it's a car. Maybe it's a house. Maybe you want to acquire a business. Whatever it is. Something of higher value. An engagement ring. You're going to marry someone. Right, right, right. Let them make their profit off somebody else. Yeah. What should be the lower percentage on a higher item of value? What should the initial offer be? You want to get a better deal. You don't want to pay a million dollars for a home. but you really want the home. You don't want to pay$3 ,000 for the diamond ring, the engaged ring, but you really want that ring.

48:57Lewis Howes:Right. How low of a percentage should you go to anchor in order for you to feel like, oh, I got a great deal, and I got the thing I wanted, and they didn't get screwed over. You know what I mean? Well, it depends upon the context. I mean, like 30 % is a good rule of thumb. To start at. Well, for a target. Like if you, and very, very context-driven. Sure. like for example I'm in Macy's one time and picking out this jacket girl I'm with really likes it she searches this thing extensively she finds like a threat out of place and she goes like watch me get 10 % off on this jacket and I'm like a threat out of place I can get 30 % by being nice no way tell me more well like in every transaction you know I look at it as there's an aggravation tax.

49:53Now, the person you're dealing with has already built in the aggravation tax because of all the aggravating people that have come through the door ahead of them. So there's an aggravation penalty. There's an annoyance tax. There's an aggravation tax that's already there on a price. Now, if you're not aggravating, you don't need to pay the aggravation tax. Interesting.

50:12Lewis Howes:Let somebody else pay that aggravation tax. And you benefit from them actually paying that tax. Yeah, let somebody else pay it. If I'm not aggravating, why should I pay the aggravating tax? So, you know, this young lady, she'd gotten 10 % off on a regular basis. I will be demanding 10 % is the annoyance tax when there's another 20 % to be gained. Interesting. Like, you don't, so many people don't realize how much money they're leaving on the table. Really? Like, massive amounts of money. on any given, the difference between 10 % off and 30 % off. Right. Like they got a way to give you a better deal if they feel like it.

50:58So how do you get them to feel like it? Well, yeah, great. There you go. Exactly. Again, the approach, very similar to the hotel thing. You know, there's a strategy where we sort of bundle the skills in a black swan method. We call it the accusations audit. The accusations audit. Accusations audit. let me do an audit of all the names you would call me if I'm going to do this. You say this. You say it to yourself. Okay, not to them. Because I need to come up with a list. So, again, it's like, look, you get annoying people coming through here all day long, every day, want something for nothing. I'm going to look like another one of these annoying jerks.

51:44that's really demanding and rubbed you the wrong way and don't appreciate how hard it is for you to work in this jewelry store, this car dealership, this wherever you are. You are knocking yourself out in a tough sales job. You're trying to feed your family. People are coming here trying to take food out of your mouth. Because how do they see it? It's not about you. And it's not about, it's really not sympathy. The difference between sympathy and empathy. I feel your pain. Like I've been there too. You know, like I'm a regular guy like you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like don't give me that regular guy stuff.

52:18So, but you look at people like me, you want something for nothing, you come walking in all the time. You know, you look at us as wanting discounts and you're trying to feed your family. Now suddenly this person is like, oh, wow.

52:33Lewis Howes:They get it. This is not the other annoying jerk that came in here. Now they're starting to open up. And then, you know, you talked before about being playful. Being playful about this can be a really big deal. My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode. And the School of Greatness drops new conversations every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday around money, mindset, healing, manifestation, and relationships. And if you're not yet following the show, then you're missing all of them. Please tap the follow button right now, and you'll get notified the moment every new episode drops because the next one might be exactly what you need.

53:10Lewis Howes:Now, let's get back to the conversation. You know that old saying, it isn't what you say, it's how you say it. I've always believed that. Anyone can talk about ambition or determination, but the real question is how you show up. Your presence, your energy, the way you move through the world, that's what makes the difference. Lending power, poise, and performance just like you. The Range Rover Sport was designed to make an impact. With a distinctly British design, the Range Rover Sport is built to take on roads anywhere. Free from unnecessary details, its raw power and agility really shine. It combines a dynamic sporting personality with elegance and agility to deliver an instinctive drive.

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54:47Lewis Howes:I've gotten so many things for free for being playful. Or upgrades or discounts just by, let me just say a friendly joke. Or just something funny. Right. Let me just be goofy and dance in front of them and be like, what is this guy doing? Yeah. Yeah, you don't got to pay the aggravation tax. And then plus, see, Sean says you're 31 % smarter in a positive frame of mind. Not only have you put the person in a better mood, you now got them thinking about options. What can they do? How can they help you? What can they get away with? How can they shortcut the TSA line? How can they, what's the code for the employee discount?

55:25like I you know in the same place where I'm trying to get this 30 % or so off and I'm joking around with this guy sure you know and one of the things you get them to see as a human being I'm like well I'm Chris is there a Chris discount what kind of Chris discount is there and they laugh at that and so and I'm still not getting enough of a discount and finally I go like look Give me the employee discount. I've been joking around. I smile when I say this. This guy goes like, if I give you the employee discount, I've got to pay for this thing myself. And I go, I'll pay you back. And I'm laughing and he laughs.

56:00And so he looks at the machine and I says, wait right here. And he walks around and I see him. And I walks up to a person I perceive to be the manager. And he's whispering in the manager's ear. And I see this manager standing there going like, no. No, really? No. and he comes walking back and another employee intercepts him, whispers in his ear, and I see his eyes light up and he walks over and he plugs in a discount for me and we get the 30 % off. Wow. But I was joking with him. I was showing I knew what it looked like from his perspective. I'm getting myself out of this aggravation tax thing.

56:36You know, let somebody else pay the demanding, aggressive, annoying, tax. You go in there and you brighten somebody else's day up. You leave the world a better place. You get some practice in. Because you want that confidence for the big negotiation. And all these things work for you. And you end up feeling better about the day yourself.

57:07Lewis Howes:You get a fun interaction. And you got a discount. Exactly. Do you practice every day? on any financial transaction are you practicing even if it's a cup of coffee if it's the gas station if it's a hotel it's a plane are you always practicing? It's a perishable skill and me and everybody on my team if we let ourselves get out of practice we get rusty. Interesting. I'm really used to my no oriented questions is pretty much all I ask. What questions? No oriented where I'm trying to get you to say no. That's what you do you're practicing that. You're pricing that constantly. I keep that teed up constantly.

57:44Lewis Howes:Is it a ridiculous idea? It's kind of your go-to. Yeah. Is it a ridiculous idea for me to get a 30-point discount today? Yeah. And so depending upon my daily interactions, I get so caught up in my world that I don't get my practice in. And so like when we started traveling in right after the pandemic, I'm getting ready to go into a hotel. I haven't done a hotel upgrade in a while. And I almost talked myself out of it. Really? I am, oh, this, you know, amygdala is kicking in. It's not going to work. I'm going to embarrass myself. I'm tired. I can see this guy turning me down. I mean, I literally stand outside the hotel and I go, all right, all right, you can do this.

58:26You can do this. Come on, come on, you can do it. You can do it. I've got to psych myself up because I'm out of practice.

58:31Lewis Howes:Yeah. But you're the guy. That's right. Everybody, it's perishable. For everybody. It is not riding a bike. Yeah. And then you also got to be willing, like, if it works nine times out of ten, sometimes you don't get anything. Hotel I was in recently. You know, my read of the guy is you run across deceptive people that are not there to help you, that are not going to give you anything. and through the course of the interaction I got several very strong reads that this person was that minority that we're all afraid of is the majority they're a minority and they're there and so that interaction was alright so my read is this this and this now I'm smarter I see this guy coming farther away like Conor McGregor Conor you know I win or I learn sure sure you know you win or you learn Now, I'm curious.

59:30Lewis Howes:When you go into a store, a hotel, you know, airport, and there's multiple options of people to talk to, who you would buy from or get upgraded from. There's two people at the counter. There's three people at the store. Are you assessing first who I should approach based on body language, based on if they smile, if they're, you know, in a more positive state? Or is it depending on male, female? Do you have a success rate based on, is it just more an intuitive feeling who you walk up to? I hadn't thought about that before. What I'm really more worried about is what kind of vibe I'm putting off.

1:00:09I don't have a lot of control over who I'm going to get. In point of fact, they're reading me before I start reading them. Because they've got a revolving door. They're picking up this energy. I think there's actual energy there. It's one of the things I bounced off of. Andrew Huberman, you know, is the energy actually there? Interesting. And he's like, the data doesn't support it. I suspect it's possible. And he's a very data-driven guy. He's solid, solid science. Solid science. Peer-reviewed journals. Yes. He's like, the data ain't there yet. But I think it exists. That's Chris Voss saying that, not Andrew Huberman.

1:00:50Andrew didn't say that. He didn't say, I think it exists. Chris Voss says, I think it exists. These people behind the counter, they're picking up on my vibe. So what I got to do instead of sitting there like, I want this guy, I want this guy, I want this guy, I might be putting off a bad vibe. I need to put off a relaxed vibe. Yeah, just go walk right off. I'm not in any hurry. I'm cool. If I'm looking at them, I got to make sure I'm looking at them and my inner voice is saying like, take your time. I know you guys are busy. I can't look at them like, do your job. I'm standing here. I'm a customer.

1:01:24You should be waiting. They're going to pick up on that if that's my inner voice. So I've got to get my inner voice in a place where I'm giving off a positive vibe. Relaxed, positive. And then I'm going to roll up and I'm going to do a read on the person in a moment. If they look like they're having a bad day, I'm going to say, tough day.

1:01:44I'm hitting the reads on the TSA people all the time.

1:01:47Lewis Howes:Really? For practice. I do a misread on a TSA guy. Don't remember what airport I was in. I ended up in an unexpected negotiation on the phone 15 minutes later. Because of the misread, I looked at this TSA guy, and he just looked kind of blank. And I said, tough day? And he kind of went, hmm. And then I went, just another day, right? He goes, yeah, yeah, just another day. But that little read is like stretching before going in the game. and the conversation I had 15 minutes later which caught me off guard because I did the read earlier it was a really successful conversation what was that conversation I needed a favor from somebody but I did I said am I offending you if I ask you for this favor because I needed him to go out of my way for me uh-huh and I did the no oriented question and I did sort of you know what am I going to do if I ask them I offend them I'm doing an emotional read I throw the two of them together on the spur of the moment which is really kind of where you want to get interesting you know you you play the same notes over and over and over and suddenly you combine them in the moment that's pretty cool and that's why I work on my no-oriented questions all the time and I'll do a random cold read the TSA guy my favorite one I I I'm always got a bottle of water in my bag I I forget to pour out the water.

1:03:14TSA, New Jersey. I got a New Jersey TSA guy. I don't put up with nothing. Exactly. So they get the water, and they're taking my bag off to the side. Now, they could almost walk me back out to the curb because the line is so long, they're too secure. And the guy's got the bag. And I realize I don't want to spend another 20 minutes in line. So I go, bless me, Father, for I have sinned. and he walks and he looks at me and he walks and he looks at me and he goes how long since your last confession my son that's funny I'm like you know what an hour ago I'm screwing up all the time yeah and he he took the water we poured it out he's not supposed to pour it out he poured it out for me he turned around and walked me back cut me in line in front of everybody else put me right back in the thing it's just yeah I'm taking care of this guy it's okay and he put me through

1:04:07Lewis Howes:wow Oh, that's great. That's amazing. Someone taught me this like 12 years ago. And he said, use this. Say, what are the chances that you can do this? What are the chances you can get me an upgrade? What are the chances you'd be able to do this? After you've created the rapport and the connection and all those things, what's the chance? And that has worked really well for me. and I'm wondering why do you think using that has also worked okay so I'm and I'm glad you brought that up because you asked me about questions before if you're going to ask a question they should only start with either the words how or what because they feel very deferential to the other side people loved to be asked what somebody should do or how somebody should do something it's extremely appealing to the other side.

1:05:04There's great power in deference. It feels deferential. So it's a lot more impactful than just saying it's an open-ended question. The who, what, when, where, why, and how should really just be narrowed down to what and how.

1:05:22Lewis Howes:Okay. Now, how is primarily but not exclusively to map implementation? How am I supposed to do that? It's actually how am I supposed to implement that? How do we get this done? It's implementation. What primarily but not exclusively to uncover obstacles? Mm-hmm. What stands in the way? What are the chances? So when you put it like that, you got a what question. It feels deferential. It's open-ended. It triggers deep thinking. Danny Kahneman talks about deep, slow thinking. Your demeanor is very genuine and curious and connective. You want to talk with people. And then what are the chances? triggers people to immediately begin to assess where the obstacles in the environment are.

1:06:27And they're really going to probably, if you look back at all your answers, because what are the chances? Most of the time, if I were to technically answer that question, the answer would be 50%, 75%. Right, right. In point of fact, people probably say like, well, here's what we got to overcome. Here's what we got to do. Here's what that would look like. they would be answering you in regards to the things to be overcome in order to make it happen.

1:06:56Lewis Howes:And then you can negotiate more. And then they would think about chances or how hard each of those obstacles would be to overcome. So those are the things I love about that question. That's interesting. When you were practicing, again, you're practicing all the time, I feel like this is something I've been doing as just a game in my life, just like a fun challenge. Can I get this from this person? Can I do this? Can I get an upgrade? It's just like a fun thing that I've been doing for a while. But when I started reading your book and having you on, I was like, okay, I need to do this even more.

1:07:24Lewis Howes:The question I'm curious about is with every interaction, is there always something we can get? Even if they say no. Like for example, if they say no, we can't upgrade you. I try to say, well, can I have a free mint? And if they say, oh, we don't have any mints, then I say, can I get a fist bump? You know, can I get a smile? I'm always trying to like get a something even if it's a little something What's your thoughts on that? Like even if they say no to everything that you want, but can you smile? Can you give me a bottle of water? Can you give me something, you know? Yeah Yeah, no, I love it as energy.

1:08:02There's a measurable energy so It's always if you're a complete mercenary Uh-huh It's the advantage to be increasing your positive karma, right? It's gonna constantly increase your chances of success, right? And the more karma you leave around you, whether it's real or whether, who knows what it is, but you're going to increase your chances of success. Yes. And so, or you increase the chances of success of the guy behind you. And the guy behind you ends up sitting next to you on a plane. or whoever's in line alongside you as you're increasing that karma is probably there because, yeah, if it's on the airplane, they're going to be on a plane next to you.

1:08:48It might be the dude next to you. They might be the guy who either rubs the flight attendant the wrong way or he makes you feel good. And consequently, when she walks up to you, she has a different, I mean, there's sort of the domino effect. Domino effect's always there. So I love that. I love that approach. And then in point of fact, you're doing it in a positive fashion, which keeps you smart. So you're probably more prepared for your next interaction. Right. And there's nothing that fuels our momentum like success.

1:09:23Lewis Howes:Yes. So if all you got on this dude was a fist bump, you're walking forward with a success. Something, yeah. Something, okay. Good to know. Can you share your, for you, your greatest negotiation, both when you were working FBI? It could be not in a hostage situation, but just the greatest negotiation you had during your time there. And also your greatest negotiation in life outside of that. This could be something small. This could have been for like the biggest deal ever. This could have been an intimate relationship. This could have been buying a car. This could be, you know, rescuing a hostage.

1:10:05Lewis Howes:I'm curious if you can give one example, personal life and professional life. Wow. Yeah. I mean, there was some different victories in hostage negotiation. After a really bad debacle, second case that worked in the Philippines, second major case, the Burnham Sabrell case, two to three hostages died in friendly fire at the end. that whole case 13 months from beginning then a lot of people died it was a train wreck it was it was ugly from start to finish an american citizen was executed early on i mean everything about that was ugly everything and um we had somebody got proof of life in the middle of that case and i don't know who it was or how they got and all we we find out one of our hostages on the phone hostages only ever on the phone for proof of life and he ain't on the phone with us and we're thinking like who the heck is out there is there a competing bidder for the hostages like it was insane so struggled with that for a long time finally got the revelation how it's done which is in my view somebody on the other side and another player asked a how question so that was when we first got onto how questions drug dealer in Pittsburgh really drug dealer on drug dealer kidnapping Kidnapping, the drug dealer goes to the FBI because who do you go to when somebody in Portia get kidnapped?

1:11:30The FBI, no matter who you are, even if you're a drug dealer. His girlfriend gets grabbed by another drug dealer. Hostage negotiators are riding around with this guy. On his own, he says to the other bad guy, hey, dog, it's my favorite phrase of all time, hey, dog, how do I know she's alive? How question? Everything changes in that moment. who really had the upper hand shifted from the guy with the quote leverage who had the hostage. Total shift in upper hand when he asked that how question. So I'm like, this is it. This is it. This is it. We got to change.

1:12:05Lewis Howes:Start doing how questions. We got to do how questions. But what if someone, the person who has the hostage is like, well, you have to trust me or this person's going to die. You just have to believe. That's a possibility. Right. And then what would the follow-up how question be if someone's being unreasonable and not giving you a little bit? How are we supposed to pay if we don't know that line? Right. You know, we got a couple lined up for the bad scenario. Now, there's a possibility that they may still go because that's the way it is. Right. But you got to go that path to find out. First. You can't be afraid of going that path.

1:12:50So we decided to do the how questions. And we do a shift. We got another kidnapping in Ecuador. This guy named Pepe, who I'm still friends with. The kidnapper? The hostage. Oh, I got you. I was like, the kidnapper? I got some bizarre friends. I'm sure you do. I got former prison gang members that are friends. I'm sure you do, yeah. But none of them were hostage takers. Okay, yeah. So this was the hostage. Hostage. Pepe, still a friend. and he and his family. So we asked the how question. Now that it's in Ecuador and the Gala, which is the local police in Ecuador. They're like, we don't do it like that down here.

1:13:30We ask a different proof of life question. Pepe's wife afterwards says she knew there was tension between the FBI and the Gala and she knew it was there. But she appreciated professionalism that nobody would argue in front of her. Well, they were arguing about this change I wanted them to make. So we're doing a how question and halfway through this thing they start referring to Pepe as Don Pepe and we're like what? Don? that's a sign of respect what? and God's name is going on on the other side of the table and about 28 days in Don Pepe makes good his escape he escapes goes out 2 o 'clock in the morning driving a rainstorm in the middle of the jungle goes out a window he's a jungle guy, he was a jungle guide He died ahead of time.

1:14:20In 28 days, he'd been there. He figured out where the nearest town was, how to get there. He knew if he goes out in the rain, all he needs is a 20-minute head start. They're not going to be able to track him. He's going to be able to get to town. He's going to be able to get out of there.

1:14:31Lewis Howes:Interesting. 28 days in, I get a call from the same negotiator that had called me a year earlier and said, I got bad news. Martin Burnham is dead. This same guy happens to be in Ecuador on my behalf. And he says, hey, Pepe's out. He escaped. He hasn't got out of guerrilla territory yet. He's on a bus. We're going to meet him. Wow. And so I'm, this is all this how thing. So we never got proof of life. I can't wait to interview Pepe. He's actually a New York state resident. He's an American citizen, dual national. I'm sent down with him in upstate New York. And I'm like, hey, you know, we never got proof of life.

1:15:18And we're asking his how a question. And he said, you know, it's crazy. The whole time, they talked about taking me to town to put me on the phone. And they kept talking with me about that. And that was one of the major factors that he went from being a commodity, a piece of property that they were housing in a house waiting to be sold, to this forced interaction on the other side of the table where they had to talk to him regularly. Kind of built a relationship with him. And he happened to be very good at relationship building. Wow. So we triggered the interaction, and then he capitalized on it with his natural gut instincts.

1:16:01Wow. Creating the opportunity. They relaxed his security so much because they got to know him as a person. They were less worried about him running away. They got very relaxed around him. They gave him the run of the camp. He sees the opportunity at 2 a.m. rainstorm he's gone wow and that to me that was like great negotiation gives the opportunity for good things to happen and you don't get so focused on your outcome that you wouldn't take something better and just just engage in a process and let great things happen wow and he escaped and that was not part of the game plan and i realized if we got a great process if good things are going

1:16:44Lewis Howes:happen you got to let them happen yes that's powerful and what about personal personal life outside of the fbi best most memorable negotiation again it could be some big deal or something that was small but really meaningful to you wow director of operations black swan group

1:17:06chelsea loves working with us and we initially brought her in as one of the um you know, the virtual assistants. Yes. You know, not an employee. And you get a virtual assistant because if they don't work out, you don't got to fire them. You say, hey, this person wants the right fit. We learned about fit. Chelsea's phenomenal. And just loves working with us. And the most satisfying one was when we hired her. The virtual company wanted to continue with us as a customer and we were good customer. And so they let, you know, the deal that you sign in advance is if you hire an assistant,

1:17:52Lewis Howes:you've got to pay them a penalty. You've got to pay them like 30 or 50 % of that year's salary or whatever. Right. Like they waived that. We brought Chelsea on. We got a waiver because we continue to do business with them. And we're a good customer and we're not demanding jerks. No aggravation tax. But we took one of their top people. So that negotiation went well. And when we brought Chelsea on board, we gave her a substantial raise and she she almost broke down in tears wow that was cool that's cool and she's to this day like i joke around that she's like i'm a toddler and she's she's a minor she keeps tracking me right right and if i'm not where i'm supposed to be you know i'm getting a buzzing on my phone yeah that's great her husband plays a banjo so her ringtone is a banjo.

1:18:38Wow, that's great.

1:18:40Lewis Howes:In a world that has now shifted to what seems like might be a for a while half virtual, half in person, this kind of flexible style of communication. What have you noticed over the last couple of years about the challenges of virtual negotiations versus in-person negotiations? See, that's another reason why I think this energy thing that you feel is real because you know but people get on zoom and they're like you know i gotta see him i gotta see him i gotta be in person like you got almost all the same data visually that you had before yes like if you and i are meeting in person and we're at a table i don't see you from the waist down right if we're on zoom i don't see you from the waist down the amount of visual data is all there and everybody feels more uncomfortable more on zoom and more uncomfortable uncomfortable uncomfortable everybody complains about the comfort feeling on zoom and they attribute it to the visual data and the visual data hasn't changed and it's my belief that there is a feel there's an actual feel that we get from people when we're in the room and i i think it's one more indicator of why you know this uh whether you call them uh you know auras or you know the energy that you exude is an actual thing and we just don't have the ability to measure it yet.

1:20:04I mean, like if we were all deaf, sound would seem mystical, right? So I think that's what we've learned in terms of human communication. And then I think the hybrid model is actually better for everybody. I think it's created a better work environment. I think we have learned that we can be more effective at home and we need to get out of our houses. Right. And we need to be in person. You need both. Yeah. And so how do we blend the two so that not only you're happier and more productive and you're happier because you're more productive. And then you find the right job and your employer is happier with you because you're doing a better job and you're happier.

1:20:49Lewis Howes:Yeah. So I think energy is real. In-person energy is real. I love the evolution of how we're creating a better work environment. I don't think you have to have an office. I think we need to be in person frequently just to feel there's something about matching the energies that make us all better. That's cool. Today's episode is supported by Host Singer. I don't know about you, but I got way too many logins for all the tools I need to run my business. And here's the thing. The website is rarely the whole problem. The problem is everything around it. the domain, the email, the marketing, the SEO, the landing pages, and figuring out what to do next.

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1:23:17Lewis Howes:The Range Rover event is on now. Explore enhanced offers at RangeRover.com. Have you ever gone up against, not like gone up against, but worked with another master negotiator? Everybody on my team. Yeah. I mean, but maybe a complete stranger that you're like, oh, this person, oh, they know what they're doing. Like they're another level of they're using your strategies or they have their own that are really effective. And is it harder to negotiate with someone who is actually really powerful communicator, confident, using great negotiation strategies, not manipulative? Or is it easier because you kind of both speak the same language?

1:23:59Well, it really depends upon whether or not they're trying to be collaborative. Yeah. and so it's easier a black swan trained negotiator is trying to be collaborative that's a great negotiation I mean and we're we're engaged in it all the time right like our our clients we're making them better negotiators like we're always trying to scare out a better deal we're always trying to figure out what's better for them what's better for us sure and so welcome it it's really what the other person is trying to do and we've run across some old style people. You know, you're here in Los Angeles. Entertainment industry is famous for being purely exploitive.

1:24:44Yes. So you could have a great resume in the entertainment industry and be a really offensive human being. Now, because of your resume, your employer might think they're high on a great person when in fact you're running around offending people regularly and had a negotiation like this. where it started going off the rails early. And I looked this person up, and they had an extensive entertainment industry background. And I thought, all right, here's the problem. Their resume looks great, but it's from an industry where if you cannot get all the chips, then you don't want to do that deal.

1:25:26Lewis Howes:Mm-hmm. And then I, which I also think the top level of the entertainment industry, you know, these guys and gals get together at a social function and they say, look, stop messing around. What do you need? How do we make this deal so we're both better? Right, right, right. But they're very quiet about that. Yes. Because they don't want to be seen as pushovers. Right. Because it takes a month or two to negotiate, then they're back doing like, what do we need to do? Let's figure this out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so when I see those types adopting our skills, if somebody's using black swan against me, but I'll figure that out really fast.

1:26:06Really?

1:26:09And it's not a sin to not get the deal. It's a sin to take a long time to not get the deal.

1:26:14Lewis Howes:Because you're wasting time. You're wasting time. It's also a sin to take a long time to get a bad deal. Yeah. So if I know the deal is going to be a bad deal, then we quit and we move on. What do you do when something you feel like is dragging off? You're going back and forth, back and forth. And it's been weeks, a month. We don't go back and forth. Really? No. Look, there's a good reason it's going back and forth. We're going to figure that out and we're going to make a decision. We're going to move on. And we started, you know, our internal terminology, which I borrowed from a guy, Joe Polish.

1:26:48genius network. He calls them halves and elves. Easy lucrative and fun. Hard annoying, lame and frustrating. What some people would call a Peter, pain in the neck. Peter does not obviously finish with an end. But everybody's got their term for that person. So I tell my team, who negotiates on my behalf all the time, look, let's walk away from the half sooner rather than later. Let's develop a profile of what a half says so we figure them out earlier. Now, in the meantime, let's pull our own data. How long does it take to make a deal with a good customer? How long does it take to make a deal with an annoying customer?

1:27:30And we found out two things. Number one, it can take five times as long to make the deal with an annoying customer. Wow. So now we're working at 20 % of our pay. We just took an 80 % pay cut. Interesting. And the annoying customers are not repeats. Right.

1:27:50Lewis Howes:They're takers. Yeah. And if they're annoying for us, we're probably annoying for them. Mm-hmm. So here's the proposition. Do you want repeat customers that pay you full value, or do you want one-offs that want an 80 % discount and you're never going to see them again? so as soon as you drop the one-offs then the repeaters accelerate so it's how do you put yourself in a position where your business accelerates you let go of those types of people so it's like a little friction it's learning to profile and learning to understand what are the cues of those types of individuals we did the same thing in hostage negotiation they realized that there were some bad guys that were not going to come out suicide by cop and once we recognize suicide by cop which is you know the harsh nature of the reality is if a guy went there to die and he has hostages what we had to accept was that he's going to kill hostages until we kill him and it was always a him wow and so then if this is going to be the case are there telltale signs at the beginning that my old boss gary nessner came up with a block of instruction called high risk indicators.

1:29:09What are the indicators of high risk? What are you going to see in the first hour? And so I went back to my team and I, well, we're going to do high risk indicators for bad customers. That's good. What are they going to say in the first hour? Interesting. And then let's, and then let's, before we know for sure, let's make a list of the things that they say that we suspect. And then let's just track how long it took to make the deal. and whether or not they made another deal. And you will be shocked. It doesn't matter who you are. The behavior is going to be repeated in your world over and over and over.

1:29:50And you are going to be able to spot them in the first 20 minutes.

1:29:55Lewis Howes:If I look back at all the relationships, intimate relationships that didn't work, I could go back and spot the first interaction, the second one, and realized, well, that was all because of me. I didn't spot it correctly. And I kept repeating the wrong relationships. But that's good. It's having those indicators, tracking it, and then adjusting moving forward when you have a new potential customer, potential girlfriend, whatever it might be, having that indicator. I'll give you one of the big ones in business of somebody who's going to be a problem. Yes. I've got a great opportunity for you. that's a bad indicator that's a bad indicator and what that means is this is a great opportunity for me if you do all the work yeah a lot of people are seduced by the enormity of the opportunity there's a lot of money there I got a bunch of billionaires in a room this is a great opportunity for you no it's not No, you're doing all the work.

1:31:01You want to put me in front of those billionaires because they're going to make you look good. And so then my question will be back to you. Like, all right, so how does this play down the past? Who that looks like me did you put in this position? And how did it work out for them? Because now that's implementation. Like, all right, so you got me worried by offering me this great opportunity. I suspect it means if I do all the work, something will come of this. So maybe, what's that work look like? Have you done this in the past? How did it work out? I'm asking how questions. Because I'm suspicious, but I've got to worry about how's this going to go.

1:31:53Yeah. So that's been a real consistent thing across the board.

1:31:58Lewis Howes:It's a big indicator. Yeah. It's powerful stuff, Chris. Listen, I got a great opportunity for you. You know what? If you would just go to Dubai and move your whole operation to Dubai and set up there, like I think Dubai is a great opportunity. And you're going to be sitting there like, are you kidding me? Do you have any idea the time zone and how many people I have? Yeah. But I actually, when we were talking earlier, I asked you about setting up shop in other countries. And your immediate reaction was how hard that was going to be. Yes. Because in throwing it out there, I want to get a feel for, is this a layup for you?

1:32:41Is this a slam dunk? Do I think it's a slam dunk and you think it's a three-point shot? Right. Or it's a half-court shot? Yeah. now I'm teasing this out like I there are things like that that could be good opportunities for some people but is your team set up and ready to move forward right that's really where that all that comes in so if somebody has a great opportunity I gotta know what the journey looks like my team is set up or it's not right but I can't jump at that opportunity and there are a number of places out there that are glittering jewels in the distance like Dubai which I'm thinking seriously about setting up shop there.

1:33:21Really? But it doesn't work for everybody. Right, right. So I get, somebody's saying to me Dubai's an opportunity, that ain't good enough.

1:33:29Lewis Howes:Right. I've been there twice. It's actually pretty fascinating what they built. I mean, it's pretty impressive. But again, you're on the other side of the world, you know, and if you do a lot of business in the US and it's just a different, you got to see if that, that could be a bigger benefit over there. What's the journey to the opportunity and what are the obstacles in a route? Absolutely. And very few people think about that because a great idea looks like a great opportunity and they don't have an appreciation for the landscape on the way. Chris, you're the master, master negotiator. I want people to follow you.

1:34:04Lewis Howes:I want them to get your book. I want them to check you out. BlackSwanLTD.com slash newsletter. Is that right? slash the dash edge. The newsletter is the edge. Gotcha. But the website, the website is a gold line. Yes. There's a lot of free stuff. So much good stuff there. Yeah. I mean, they got to get your book. You know, if you're watching this or listening, you got to get your book. That's step one. Go through that. Never split the difference. It's incredible. So I don't know how many copies have you sold now. You've sold so many. Do you know? Worldwide, we're over 3 million. 3 million. It's incredible, man.

1:34:37That's the other good thing about it. This works in every country. Yes. like I'm in Dubai young female Asian female walks up to me I don't know until I assess she tells me she's Chinese she says I negotiate with your book all the time I go let me get this straight you're in China right she's like yeah I'm Chinese like okay so you're using Never Split the Difference to negotiate with Chinese people in China and she's like yeah just want to make sure

1:35:09Lewis Howes:That's cool. Yeah. Three million copies. So if you guys don't have the book yet, get the book, blackswanltd.com. So many good resources, articles, all this different stuff you got on there. I love all your stuff there. Thanks. We've got a couple of previous interviews with you. We'll make sure to link those up. But I think this was a good refresher and some more stories you shared here, which is really cool. Always a pleasure having you on. I've got a question for you. How else can we be of support and service to you today? Besides people getting the newsletter, getting the book, following you on social media.

1:35:43You know, what we're trying to do, and you and I talked about this a little bit before, so I'll mention it again. We're trying to slowly back into the space of improving police community, minority community relations. And so neither side realizes how traumatized their counterparts are.

1:36:03So the cops, many street cops are suffering from traumatic stress. Yes. The communities that they're serving are suffering from worse traumatic stress. So it's not surprising that there's problems. So what we're trying to do is gently, quietly figure out ways to increase understanding with the other side. So if you're in law enforcement, spend some time in a community where you're not on the job. if you're in a community that needs cops but is not getting along with them, whatever you could do to give a cop a break,

1:36:56Lewis Howes:to take it a little bit easier on them, to not honk at them when they're blocking traffic, to realize, you know, they're not intentionally trying to screw up my day. We're just gently trying to get into the space ever so gently because these are two communities that need each other. Yeah. How are you guys doing that, or how can people support that? One of our trainers, Troy Smith, has got an organization called Walk a Mile in My Shoes, and he's developing relationships between the police and disadvantaged communities, which is really euphemism for black. by and large the communities that struggle the most on a regular basis for whatever reasons there's there's no shortage of blame across the board nobody is any no group is it more is uh without sin and but but what Troy's doing with walk a mile in my shoes is is making a difference that's cool okay where can they check that out or learn more uh they google walk a mile in my shoes i'll probably find it or yeah yeah he should i think they've got it set up on on his website um but uh or or email us okay email info at black swan ltd.com say you want to be supportive of walk a mile in my shoes nice and we'll turn you on to them okay cool i want to acknowledge you chris for your constant uh you're constantly showing up and giving people tools strategies resources to become better communicators, to become better negotiators in ethical win-win situations, not manipulative situations, for giving people strategies to have a more enriched life.

1:38:40Lewis Howes:And it's really cool that you continue to show up this way. So I appreciate you for all that you're doing and the consistent effort you add to the world. I've asked you this question before, but I'll see if it's different. Three truths questions. So imagine it's your last day on earth and you've accomplished everything you want, but for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you. So no one has access to your books or your messages or this interview. It's gone. But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world. And this is all we would have of your wisdom, your life experience that you would share behind.

1:39:13Lewis Howes:What would be those three truths for you? You know, before you disagree with anybody, see if you can lay out what their position is. How they see it. You're free to disagree all you want. But you've got to lay out, before I disagree, as near as I can tell, this is how you feel about this. And lay it out in a way that they would say, that's right. Then you can disagree all you want. Like if people would just do that, the amount of stress and anxiety in the world would decrease. Because they would feel seen and heard and understood. Right. Yeah. Okay. That's one. That's one. And how many more do I got to do?

1:39:50Two more. Don't quit because your competition is going to. You know, the McDonald's movie, The Founder, you know, depending upon what you thought of that movie, Michael Keaton in that role, you know, early on he's listening to a motivational speaker, you know, persistence, persistence, persistence. And then after he's a big success, he's given the same speech. and it's cliche to be persistent but the reality is your competition is going to quit like the Black Swan team we're not going to quit and we're not in a hurry but by and large all of our competition in our space is slowly falling by the wayside because they're going to quit they're going to stop learning They're going to lay back on their laurels.

1:40:51And that's just not our competition. Like, your competition's going to quit. So all you've got to do, Molly Bloom says you never lose. If you don't quit, you can't lose. Your competition's going to quit if you just don't give up. Just keep showing up. All you've got to do, you know, there is no finish line. Looking at all the different ways that you hear from other directions. Like, there's no finish line. Like, when am I going to be done? your competition's going to quit. So if you don't quit, you're going to outlast the people that you're competing against. And then finally, just learn slowly.

1:41:30There's a phrase out there, the only sustainable competitive advantage is to learn faster than your competition. Don't pressure yourself to learn fast. Because if you don't quit and you just learn slowly, then those two things are going to build. But if you pressure yourself to learn fast, like you have a bad day. Somebody takes you out and you have a great night out. Like, you know, I'm old enough these days. Like I can drink as much as I used to, but it takes me two days to get over it instead of a half a day. But if I got heavy pressure on myself to learn a lot every day and I lose a day, now I'm kicking myself because I feel like I lost a lot.

1:42:11but if I only want to learn a little bit each day and I got a day where I'm in the tank and I didn't do any good and I didn't get out of bed or I didn't eat right like I haven't lost a lot I can recover from a lost day very easily if I don't pressure myself for each day to be big so just learn just a little bit each day and don't quit and you're going to get to meet interesting cool people like Lewis Hans

1:42:37Lewis Howes:there you go I love it Final question, what's your definition of greatness? For a man to be a gentleman. And I realize that some people want to say these are chauvinistic terms, equivalent term for a woman who would be the lady. But somebody close to me once pointed out the highest compliment you could ever pay a man is refer to him as a gentleman. So integrity, polite, hardworking, look out for other people. you know do this you know I stand when a woman walks in a room I pull out a chair my girlfriend cannot get into a vehicle that I don't open a door for you know that to me to be a gentleman is to be a success and there's an equivalent term whatever that term might be regardless of your gender or your gender orientation whatever it is to be a good human being and whatever that label is that doesn't restrict you, but, you know, calls you to be your highest self.

1:43:35Lewis Howes:Chris, appreciate it, man. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it. My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode right now because we are on a mission to impact 100 million lives every single week. And every follow here on this podcast helps us reach more people. Make sure to hit the follow at the top of this show's page right now. It's the single biggest thing that you can do to support the show and the impact of us reaching you every single time we have new episodes. I appreciate you and I can't wait to see you in the next episode. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

1:44:11Lewis Howes:Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I wanna remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

1:44:50Lewis Howes:And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

1:45:01Lewis Howes:There's a fire inside you you can't ignore. Stand still, not a chance. You're a lifelong learner who's come this far. Now, we're here to help you keep going further. Capella University, what can't you do? Visit capella.edu to learn more. Amazon Health AI presents Painful Thoughts. I, um, I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing for Amazon Health AI. Chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24-7. Healthcare just got less painful.