Why Winning Didn't Fix Me: The Truth About Pain | Kevin Love

25:22I didn't have the language to be able to express myself and how I was feeling, but he channeled all of that rage and anger and showing me how to play and through his mind and also his failures. He was very open and he admitted a lot about him not being able to. He didn't work hard enough. He was a free spirit. He was, you know, playing for the Lakers and then, uh, and playing is a strong word with that. And then, uh, you know, touring with the Beach Boys in the summertime. So like he wasn't, there was no living the dream. I mean, it was living the dream, but then, you know, his career only lasted just under five years.

25:59And, you know, he, he, he looked at me and sometimes I caught, um, you know, let's call it some heat and some ugliness from him because he probably saw me and said, and thought, I I don't want my son to, I guess, fail. Like I did. Even though he made it in that way, but he didn't want me to end up like him. He wanted me to have a long career, chase the game, put in the work, be a self-starter. Wow. And where he is free-spirited and just kind of went to the beat of his own drum, he wanted me to be a different way. So I think in that way, he taught me something different. And also, I think on the other side, it was, I mean, both good and bad.

26:41Because, like, we have daughters now. And my sister's the youngest of the three. So I have older brother Colin, younger sister Emily. And he was so gentle with her. Right? So he also, like, taught me that. Whereas, like, not to be how he was with, like, my brother, especially. And still does. But, like, looks like a love. looks exactly like my dad did when he was born and growing up so i'm like that probably has to be tough for him and then you know for me i was the the outlier the high achiever um and kind of the the the kid that was the golden child and the one player in the country the kid that um you know had to be protected and while there are some ways were instances where he didn't do that in other ways he was the guy that would you know take the bullet for me stand in front of me so again there's It's duality in both of it.

27:31There's a balance, but it's true that I did get what I need, but also didn't at the same time.

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29:39Lewis Howes:You know, before he got sick. Yeah, he got really sick. Yeah, I got cancer and... You know, I, you know, we again talked about, and I mentioned it briefly at the beginning, that regret is tied up so much in inaction. I did not want to regret at the end of his life and then at the end of mine and in the short term, year term and long term, how I would feel about not having some of those conversations and forgiving. like that would be drinking my own poison right and then having some sort of reconciliation at the end of his life so and you got to have that yeah it was probably the last yeah 16 months or so of his life 16 18 months and then you know he went into hospice about um the last six weeks of his life and then like i said late uh april of last year had passed away wow yeah i mean it's almost been a year then how are you feeling one year after his passing still confused last year was a uh probably the you know personally one of if not the hardest year um you know of of of my life because he uh you know had to watch his and get his leg amputated and um you know at a certain point i forget that what the statistics are you know you break your hip past the age of 75 or maybe even 70 so like and then you have a window a window of months i think it's six months or a year maybe.

31:09And, um, you know, he had broken his hips. So that sped up the, uh, the process as well. So he had to get two surgeries within the course of four days. And that was in, um, late October and then early, uh, November of, of, of last year. And then things just progressively got worse because it was apparent that he would never get out of his hospital bed again. So we moved him home and, um, yeah, hospice. Um, that's where my mom is just such an angel and a godsend. And I don't know how she had the capacity to, physical and emotional capacity, to be able to actually take care of him. She was a career nurse.

31:43And, I mean, just I look at her with a whole new lens after that because she kept him alive for so long and was on call for him 24-7. I mean, it was really an unbelievable feat to watch. That's longevity right there.

31:58Lewis Howes:Oh, my gosh. I've heard from a lot of people that say you truly don't become a man until you've lost your father and until you have kids. And I lost my father four years ago and you lost yours a year ago. We both have young kids now. Do you feel like in any way that's true for you that you like, now that you've lost your father and you're also a father, do you feel like you're stepping into being a man more for sure especially we it's it's new for you having having daughters you're six months in right with with twins so i mean you had two bang bang yeah uh and so i have a yeah again two and a half year old daughter and a year a year old um and i think it's just completely changed my perspective and and they say it softens you when you have daughters too it's funny like i'll watch a news story because of course the news is so happy and or i'll i'll watch a movie that um and i think it may i don't know what people would say or if there's like science or data behind this but hopefully it means i'm emotionally intelligent it's like i am such more so much more of like a wet person now that i have daughters and i'm softer because of it and i see things through a different lens when i see these stories about um not only family conflict but loss and movies with heavy emotional depth and familial adversity, those type of things that hit so much different now that I've had kids and from the loss of my father as well.

33:34But also the good and bad in both from the relationship with my dad, it also just taught me so much in what to be in a father. in a big way. So I'm extremely grateful for that. And I choose to celebrate that through that lens.

33:54Lewis Howes:That's cool, man. I want to go back to your pain, your nervous system pain. I'm curious, what do you think would take for you to create true inner peace and to heal the different pain that you have, that you're experiencing? You've done a lot of work on this already. You've worked with the top psychologists and therapists and Dr. Paul Conti and who's been on here. but what do you think is at the root that'll that you need to really heal i think it's that i think it's especially in considering where i'm at in my career as well i think it's an accumulation of of all of these things and stripping stripping it all back but i do think it's i was a precocious kid i was an outlier i was somebody who uh from the age of five or six when i started playing organized basketball and was playing three grades up with my brother you know people were like oh that kid is you know special especially right and it was pretty apparent um what i could be and i think unpacking and my dad put a lot of pressure on me and so did the the community that i was in and i was a big fish in a smaller pond in portland oregon but i was the number one player in the country pretty pretty early or top few player in the country pretty early and was that's gotta that's a pressure also it's like when someone says okay here's the number one yeah person in the country.

35:08Lewis Howes:And you're what, 16, 17 or 18? Yeah, maybe even younger. And I was, that's a lot of pressure. Yeah. I think there was a probably 14, I would say, because we went to a, a, uh, the national championships in Orlando, Florida. And I came out of that, you know, ranked maybe the number two or number one guy in the country. For your age group or for like, this is AAU, is this like, okay. So this is for the, this is for the country. And it was pretty well known then that I was, uh, you know, going to be the next guy up. Yeah. The next guy up. Uh, what does that feel like? You're 14 and you're essentially the number one player in the country.

35:43Lewis Howes:What does it do for your identity or psychology? Like, does it excite you? Do you build a level of confidence? That's like your ego explodes? Yes. Really? All of the above. And like, that's where I'm like, you know, I, I have, I talked about like having shame shivers and I still think about it now. And I've seen a lot of people that I went to high school with since. And every time I see them, I'm like, in some cases i apologize but i'm like we were all feeling certain big emotions at that time i wish i could go back there and change this but no just like you know if i offloaded hurt i apologize oh man because i was feeling some sort of way and like of course when you're young it's like you know you talked about like you know you want to put your arm around your boy and he's like you know get off me get off me for you know we used certain words for it yeah like it's just I'm happy to see at least like in my fun and the work we do now like kids are so much more open to being vulnerable or open to change which is really cool to see because I never had that and I never really had those conversations there was one other friend and it's my other best friend from back home is is the only guy I would have that with but even then I'm just like at other people's expense I would offload these things and I look back and Um, you know, it kind of makes me sad and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm shameful, you know, of that.

37:03But I, I think going back to your question, it's been unpacking, I don't know, 30, 25, 30 ish years of expectation as well. And factor that into quite literally everything and what that means for, um, you know, all of the emotionality that I've dealt with over the course of time. it's it's it's you know that word keeps coming back it's confusing it's very confusing so unpacking that has been something that um i think will help start that process and then the unpacking needs to continue to happen with whatever trauma or whatever i was feeling at the time whatever confusion and um knowing that all of my feelings were valid both good and bad i need to keep telling myself that because i keep telling myself like who am i to think like that it's just like the the kids that you speak of like look he has everything why does he feel like this and it's like you know different different bucket different scoreboard yeah i don't think it matters i think it transcends everybody has their story and how they how they deal with it and how they feel

38:10Lewis Howes:do you think it would have been possible for you to have a quote-unquote a healthier childhood you know a less traumatic childhood or a more healthy relationship with your emotions and your parents and you still be able to accomplish what you've accomplished in your career see that's a great question because as an athlete you know this like my i always say it was a gift and a curse because my anger my rage that was like stemmed from the anxiety and the whatever darkness or not wanting to come out of the room or not having emotional availability or intelligence or bandwidth with or budgeting my stress.

38:51I, you know, I want to like stay in my room in a dark room and then go practice and lift weights. And then I'd have to go to school. And then like, you know, I wanted like a girlfriend to love me and then like be with my boys and be like, like it was, some of it was healthy, some of it not so much, but it was, I feel like that, especially the strong, heavy anxiety was such a driving force. so i'm like it was a gift and a curse it still is i almost i always ask the question and i don't mean this to be um you know it might come up it might not but i'm like did did i leave stuff on the table because i i not because i started getting the the help but like did any of the the medication or or any things that i did to um heal heal which is overwhelmingly a positive but Did it take away that like edge to go for it?

39:50I don't know. Really? I don't know. I don't know.

39:53Lewis Howes:Do you think you've been less successful in your athletic career since starting the healing process? No, I think just at my prime because of my body was just earlier. But that thought creeps in. I truly believe that like I was on the athletic decline as far as my athletic prime goes. You were at the top. Yeah, yeah. without a doubt, my life satisfaction is higher. Yeah. Right. Like, is there fulfillment needs that are there on every side? Sure. Like, but again, I think it's continuing to. Yeah. I'm curious where, what life would have been like if that, you know, if you just had a healthier relationship with emotions and parents growing up and you were cultivated an environment of being driven without anger.

40:39Lewis Howes:I wonder... Well, it's like Michael Jordan, right? I just have to bring him up. I'm not saying anything similar, but that mindset of like, I mean, only because I was talking about The Last Dance last night, I've watched it six times. I love it. And he's like, I took that personal, right? He would just keep making up enemies, whether it was real or not. He would just keep making up these things that happened, didn't happen and so therefore like he's playing tricks on his mind to create yeah tom brady did a lot of that too he did a lot of that too right and he talks about it i love his mindset too yeah what did he say what was that like okay and i think that that you have to get your brain there and and you know people say psych yourself up in a way that um gets you to a point of of reaching your athletic ceiling and capabilities.

41:30But, um, the question is, I don't know, but do I think I would have been able to achieve what I achieved without that form of adversity? I would lean towards saying no. So I almost, and I almost feel like it's, it's a good way of telling kids like you, you can work on it, but also use channel, find a way to channel it as a gift to put it elsewhere, put that energy elsewhere, harness it elsewhere. But I don't know how, at least at the time, I didn't know if that was even possible. I still don't know if it's completely possible. Interesting. Both, you know.

42:02Lewis Howes:I mean, as a father now, I'm thinking the same thing. I'm like, I want my daughters to be successful in their life and accomplished, but I don't want them to have, I want them, I want to create controlled adversity that they need to learn how to overcome, but also give them a lot of love. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to like fracture their psychology. So they're like, I have to go prove myself to my dad or something. You know, it's like, that's not my intention. And I'm curious, do you know anyone in the league or who's maybe retired or still playing that really has a lot of love and peace in their heart?

42:33Lewis Howes:Like truly has love, not saying they're perfect and maybe they have some challenges, but they just seem like they're super healthy in their nervous system. And yet they're just killers on the court. Do you know anyone like that? And you're just like, man, they've just like, they just seem peaceful and calm and harmonious. I just watched the documentary with, uh, what's the guy's name? The former Laker uh lamar odom i mean i don't know if you've seen this one yet i mean on netflix the uh not saying i lived it with him but lamar and i yeah we were on the world championship team together same agent i was there yeah i mean i don't did you watch the untold series with him right yeah i mean he's still got some stuff inside of him but it's like oh yeah what was that about a traumatic childhood that was oh yeah did he i mean what was that experience like with him then No, just being around him.

43:23I was there when he first started his relationship with Chloe, which had to have been around 2009, 2010.

43:32Lewis Howes:You guys were on the same team? So, world championship team. We played in Istanbul and won a gold medal together. Okay, USA team. USA team. So then played against him. The Lakers, we had the same agent, basketball agent. Wow. And so I got to know Lamar pretty well. And even through all the traumatic experiences that I learned about that he had and, you know, growing up very traumatic, you could see where those where those came from, especially after watching that documentary. But, you know, you could also see the spiral in and on. No one could prepare him for what was what was coming. It was it was really, really sad.

44:09And when you know somebody at that level, which I knew Lamar relatively well. It's painful to see. you you sympathize and you feel for him in a major way because you know that's one of your brothers it's like you know it's such an elite fraternity already yeah uh with 450 players but when you win a gold medal with somebody and you've gone and been in the trenches with them and this person has put his arm around you and um you know helped you in your career it's it's it's um it's tough to to to watch that especially when now you know just how far it went oh yeah yeah it's dark it's very

44:45Lewis Howes:dark is there anyone in the league then that you've seen or know that you're just like oh they seem to have it life figured out internally and they can go out and do well at an elite level or has everyone just got no you know i think like i think every yeah everybody does in some case but i look at guys that um you know of course like lebron's example but like steph curry is a great example yeah he seems very peaceful inside he seems very peaceful inside you know he he does He's very healthy, family life, healthy. He has a lot of what he does is based around faith and family. He just seems like he has an amazing foundation.

45:29And even, what is he, 16 years into the league is still performing at his level. He's the one that I would circle outside of the realm of guys that I've played with, even though he was on that 2010 team as well. And I hated him for four years playing him in the finals. But he's somebody that I would circle as, you know, somebody who really has it together, you know, emotionally, spiritually, and has taken care of his body. So like, just checked so many boxes.

45:55Lewis Howes:So it's possible to be world-class, one of the best. It is. Yeah. I think it's extremely rare. Yeah, exactly. Extremely rare. But I think that his biggest fight right now is probably like father time and then time in general, just being around his family and around his kids. But I think that from the outside looking in and knowing Steph relatively well is, is, uh, he has a great work-life balance and he chases both with everything. He, he seems to, he seems to have it like that is, it looks, that's what success for the most part should, should look like. It looks right. Yeah. And he's like, he's good relation with the parents.

46:33Lewis Howes:And it's like, he seems like joyful a lot of the time. And he probably has, there's trauma in there and there's things that have happened, but it truly seems like he's, uh, he's in, he's in a good place and you don't get to where he is also without, he's a great communicator. You can tell. And one of the things that he, you know, you mentioned is faith. It's like after every shot he's connected to God or after every make it looks like, um, what's your relationship with God and faith? For me, it's always just, I've had my own internal belief system. You know, it's funny, I've studied Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, you know, I'm not going to say I grew up Catholic, but I grew up going to church with my grandmother.

47:17But no, I just, higher power, I guess I believe in that. I believe in, you know, good energy. I do have an internal belief system and a belief system that is strong. But any which way, faith leaning, I'm not exactly sure. My wife is Jewish. And so like I'm kind of spread all over. I just love people.

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49:20Lewis Howes:monthly unless canceled credit card required conditions apply to apps hbo max basic with ads begins after direct tv five-day trial learn more at direct tv.com restrictions apply i guess it's just interesting because you mentioned steph is like the one guy who is in the league who's you know i'm sure he's not the only one but the highest level of success who also is connected to i wonder if that brings him a level of peace i believe and healing yeah that i'm curious to you know, ask him that one day, like, hey, is this, do you feel like if you didn't have God or faith in your relationship, whatever that relationship is, do you feel like you would have this much peace?

49:58Lewis Howes:I wonder what his answer would be. I couldn't answer it for him, but I would almost guarantee you with how him and Aisha met each other and how they grew up and how his parents raised him. I would bet that's the case. And those are great. Belief systems are amazing to have. I just, uh, I think a big part of it is, uh, you find it in different stages and times throughout your life. But, um, yeah, for me, it's, I think it's, um, you know, just to everybody has their different belief system. How do you, how do you plan to protect your peace going into this next season? You know, not literal season, but also season of life, whatever, with whatever you choose to do.

50:43Yeah. I think just doing my work early. I think it's leaning into, yeah, not only my therapy, but, you know, it's like the saying, kill the body, the mind will die. Take care of my body in case I do decide to play again. And there is a job there for me in a place that's going to make my family and I happy, focus, and be highly intentional on spending the time with my girls. Because at this age, I mean, you're starting to notice it now too. Like they change so fast. They change so fast.

51:13Lewis Howes:Every day they wake up, I'm like, Yeah, even from, so my youngest daughter, she turned one on Valentine's Day. And even these couple months that have followed, the change has been astronomical. And then my two and a half year old, it's like every two weeks, it's, you know, you're not saying off of war anymore. You're saying aquaphor, like bring back, bring back you saying words wrong. Yeah, yeah, the cute little. The cute, oh my God, it's like, you know, death of one stage, rebirth of another. But I'm like, I need that stage back. So I find myself scrolling my phone and looking at that. So that's what makes it hard being away.

51:45So I want to be highly intentional with my time spent with them. And then just, you know, also having balance, you know, away from the floor and, you know, different things that I love. Whether it be, you know, writing or photography or travel or, you know, any of those things that get down in the sun and let the sun hit me in the morning. Like all these things that, you know, make me feel really good, both body, mind and spirit. So I really want to focus on that. So no matter what happens, both good and bad, I will be prepared for it.

52:18Lewis Howes:Has your mental routine changed over the last 18 seasons in the NBA where, you know, you used to prepare a certain way before big games. Now you prepare differently or has it been consistent throughout? And if so, what is that routine to get you mentally ready right before a game? Yeah, I think it's all nervous system related now. Like if I'm, you know, as I used to listen to like, you know, really like strong, heavy, like hard either, you know, rap or music that would, you know, inspire me to want to like channel that type of. Yeah, exactly. But like to kind of lose my emotions in it. Now it's like could still be that level of, you know, cadence within like a beat or a rhythm or that sort of thing.

53:09but typically like no words really or it'll be something that like just calms my nervous system so i think music is a part of my family so therefore a huge part of my life is always on so um i think music plays a huge sound plays a huge uh part in that as well as in terms of the senses but mostly yeah eat the same make sure i'm fueled right i shouldn't say eat the same as like my first few years because i didn't know what i was doing but routine wise everything is always very punctual very very much at the the same time a little superstitious in that way really what's the food what's the same meal you know it's like starch it's like you know white rice and chicken and avocado and just making it sure it's it's balanced and getting my hydration right but it's so much more advanced now than it was when i came in in 08-09 just having pizza or whatever yeah yeah just whatever was there you grabbed and got the got the calories and hope it worked out for and wonder why you crashed or you didn't, right?

54:02Lewis Howes:So at this age, you know, you mentioned father time. That's something I'm trying to battle with as well as like fighting father time is like, how can I extend my athletic journey towards my Olympic dreams for LA 2028 the best way I can with a little over two years away. And I'll be 45 at that time. So the idea of like, how do I continue to stay mentally young and physically young to prevent injuries, to give myself the ability to live a dream. How do you think about the, I guess, mortality of your body in with 22 year olds who are just freak athletes in the NBA now, like these guys are jumping out of the gym.

54:47Lewis Howes:They're just doing unbelievable athletic feats every night. How do you think about that knowing, oh, maybe I don't have that little step I used to have maybe i'm not jumping that that many more inches above the rim that i used to how do you navigate that internally knowing the end may be a year two three years away but it's like it's here at some point sooner than it is later i'll try to use this for sure study the game study film yes the film doesn't lie um hopefully you know they haven't figured that out yet so i have that advantage yeah yeah yeah on them but i think in terms of my body it's like cortisol cortisol cortisol like how do i keep the inflammation down because i always you know there's always some some sort of stress response or something that will set you off throughout the course of the day but if you can try and limit that as much as possible while also knowing that you're going to be burning it at both ends if you're going in and lifting weights and and doing sprints and putting all that stress on your body and your knees and your back over the course of time it's it's certainly an accumulation i have a lot of miles on me having played 18 seasons plus you know working out in the summertime plus playing uh you know uh usa basketball so you know for me it's it's keeping the inflammation down it's eating right it's sleeping right um having proper balance so there's no burnout um but again i'm never going to get those steps back that i once had oh man it's like just stabilizing see where you can improve uh summertime off season is a great chance to do that.

56:25Always being curious and trying to learn as much as you possibly can about, you know, how you can help your body, how you can help your body grow, mind grow. And hopefully you'll be able to teach those guys something.

56:37Lewis Howes:Man, because I'm kind of in that season now as well where I can see I'm still able to be effective and I'm athletic. Just can't do it all the time. And it's like, but I'm not jumping 360 one leg, landing on the same foot, like, you know, reaching back and doing all the crazy stuff you used to when you're 26. And you can just recover like that. And so how do you think about it around confidence and psychologically knowing that you're, I don't want to say you're not as good because you're better in other ways, but athletically you're just, you know, I didn't have this mind with that body. Exactly.

57:12Lewis Howes:How do you, how do you deal with it psychologically to not let your confidence go down knowing that you're a different athlete let me say that yeah i think it's focusing like i know that at a very elite level that i can still rebound the ball at elite level i can shoot the ball um elite level i can pass the ball and also many admitting like where i'm at in my career but understanding where i add value right so focusing on those things fine tuning um as well i always say you can hear a great team so like our young guys don't like to communicate. I didn't hear much this year. So that was, um, a great thing that, um, you know, I learned, especially when I got to the Cavs and had to be a championship team is that we had to, we had to speak, we had to communicate, if not off the floor, then on the floor to get the best out of each other.

58:03So I think that's a both and on and off on and off. I mean, you, you need it, but you know, there's, there's exceptions to the rule. Like of course, you know, Kobe and Shaq hated each other at some point and yet they were just you know two of the top few players in the league at the same time playing on the same team so there's that but we um no we were great communicators and we also had fun together we trusted each other so i think that was um

58:26Lewis Howes:yeah yeah that was huge i hear a lot of you know it's talk and touch it's like the more you talk with each other and the more you touch each other you know steve nash he was like national didn't they do a study on him like the most touches yep he was like of the whole season right it was him it's like positive affirmations basically and he was the mvp like he had the most touches and he was always positively speaking into the players yeah and i think if the coach isn't that interesting it's the talk and touch and i think that's something i'm thinking a lot of this season of my life in handball is like i can cheer the whole game on if i'm on the bench and i'm not playing i can be cheering and screaming positively for each player on and that's what I do.

59:08Lewis Howes:If I'm not playing in the game, I'm like, you got this, keep it up. I'm just speaking and trying to encourage others to communicate because that's infectious. It's leadership. Yeah. And it's a workout too, screaming the whole, it's like. Oh yeah. Oh, it's a, yeah. I have that first, that first seat, um, next to our coaching staff, it goes down the line. And I, I, for the most part, um, try and be the first out to give everybody love after a timeout or after, um, end of a quarter, something like that, because I think that that is infectious and you see more and more people jumping off the bench and going to do that so celebrate your teammates i think it's huge um and you need to be in that positive mindset because it's in athletics and in so many people like you're you're one play away you're one play away like it's just the reality of it all from what from playing both okay so if you're out there playing big minutes if something were to happen to you see it all the time the next person is going to be up coming to take your spot right and if you're in a bad mindset and you're not celebrating that person you're thinking you know like screw the team and organization they're not giving me my opportunity like you're so much better off being in the other like growth type of mindset and celebrating others and celebrating your people in the locker room while establishing a healthy locker room and healthy space and healthy culture that when you have the opportunity i think you're so much better off uh with that you're going to have your teammates trust and they're going to be like, oh, I like playing with this guy.

1:00:35And those minutes are going to be there. So like, you have to keep working. You have to be intentional about how you do it and how you navigate it.

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1:02:07Lewis Howes:New cultural complete three-in-one biotics mini chews are delicious, crunchy bits you easily pop in your mouth every day. No water needed. They help with occasional bloating, gas, and digestive discomfort to keep your gut drama free. Because when your stomach is boring, your life doesn't have to be. Cultural probiotics, the science of a boring gut. See website for details. With everything you've been through in the last 18 seasons in the NBA, from the wins to the family dynamics and the boundaries you've had to create to the coming out publicly about anxiety, depression, and starting a healing journey to, you know coming back with your father in the last couple of years all these different things what would you say are the three things that have defined you over the last 18 seasons of your life in the NBA I would say certainly the first thing that comes to mind is being outspoken about my mental health how it's affected me and how I've come out the other side and the community and fund that I've created and impact not only on my, on others, but myself through it all.

1:03:25So that's one. How important my relationships in my life have been to me, like there's a family you're born to, the family you make along the way, right? The family that I've made along the way and the relationships that I've, I've leaned into. And really specifically, there's been people that been with me over the course of time uh meaning my two best friends from back home and then you know i've been with the same agent i've been with a few of the same people my entire career but really the last 10 or so years i say 10 because that was our um our 2016 team won the championship and then in 2017-18 was a really tough and trying year for me after that everything i learned about myself and those people who continue to be there for me.

1:04:12Lewis Howes:You learn about the people who show up for you during those times and those who you thought would have, that you're probably no longer in your life. I agree. So that's where that comes in as well. And also I would say now because it's so fresh on my mind and because having lost a parent just this past year, um yeah what fatherhood what has taught me you know what is most important and and how much fatherhood and being a parent changes your life so i'd probably say those three things um so it's yeah the mental health journey it is relationships and friendships and then it's that's beautiful yeah and you know i hope you get to 20 if that's what you want or as long as you want to go towards But if you could go from year 18 and if you could go into the future to the last day of your NBA career, your last game where the shoes are out on the court, the jerseys hung up, what do you want this moment until the very end of your NBA career to be the things you're remembered for, separate from these first 18 years?

1:05:20i think especially now i've had speaking of fulfillment we talked about fulfillment and searching for that and wanting that and and what makes me happy now is like the impact that i've had on guys i never thought i would be that guy because i think coming into the league i was so had the blinders on and you know had some very selfish and narcissistic qualities which again, it's like you, sometimes you need, you, you need those and you have to be a little off to be great or have an opportunity to be great. Um, and you sacrifice a lot and you think I, you know, I, I deserve this cause I've put in the work and I've had these breaks and this is, you know, it's, it's mine for the taking.

1:06:04So it's me, me, me. But again, that, that one of the things I do look back at is like, would it have been a less lonely existence? since my first six years in the league in Minnesota, had I been like, all right, guys, like, wrap my arms around my teammates. We were losing so much. I'm like, I'm going to go out and try and will us to victory. But if not, I'm going to, you know, put up serious numbers and either you guys are coming with me or you're not. So I was like, you know, it was one of those things. So I didn't realize what it meant to sacrifice and be a great teammate until I got to Cleveland.

1:06:41Really? And it came with some tough... That's what Ohio boys did. You know, it's like it came with some tough learning experiences, but no, if not for Cleveland, if not for Ohio, if not for the Cavaliers, having learned those lessons some the hard way, some not so hard, but some very much the hard way, then I wouldn't be who I am today. Interesting. And, you know, leaving guys in a better place professionally and personally in their careers, because I never had that veteran my first six years in the league. Not somebody like that.

1:07:12Lewis Howes:Who taught you this in Cleveland? like how did this come about where you're like channing fry and richard jefferson really yeah they were like yeah which people would yeah if you know rich he's yeah he actually uh uh has a true emotional uh you know depth and curiosity to him and i just saw him the other day he's been amazing obviously has this great personality great tv personality but like getting to know rich has been amazing and then channing is is somebody who um i truly love and respect and is one of my best friends and somebody I've been through truly a lot with. And he's been very outspoken about his own struggle.

1:07:50So it was really those two that helped me find myself in that way. And I thought, I want to be like them. Really? I want to be a great team man. I want to leave a lasting impression on people. And they're just guys that I looked at as leaders in that way that helped me find myself.

1:08:10Lewis Howes:I want to ask you about this. You've been on a lot of different teams with USA basketball teams to different teams in the league. Is it something different about winning a championship with a group of guys that makes you connect with that team differently than just all other teams? For sure. And it's really top of mind now because, like I said, it's been 10 years. Yeah. We have our group chat, which it's six of us on there that were so close. And Channing and Richard are on there as well. Come on. We talk every day. we were texting this morning and because of i mean a perfect example is like jr smith is is his daughter was born very prematurely and we went through that with him and uh you know we're we're all very much feeling for him and scared that he was going to um you know lose his daughter at the time so we were there for him through that and she's happy and healthy uh channing fry lost both his mom and dad in the same month.

1:09:10Wow. So we were all there for him. Tristan Thompson lost his mother, same thing. I lost my father, same thing. We all showed up for each other in major ways. Richard, same thing. LeBron has been very open with us about a lot on that text chain. And, of course, we keep it very fun. And some of the stuff isn't suitable for work. Yeah, you've got the memes. Oh, yeah. But we, you know, we show up for each other. And that is, you know, such a major part of the friendship and the brotherhood that was the Cavs. But those are relationships that you develop over the course of your career. But specific to that team, having gone through all those battles, having lost in 2015, having lost in 17 and 18, but winning in 16 in the manner that we did and how.

1:10:00Down 3-1, right? Together, yeah, we were. We had never done it before. We did it on the road. That was incredible. Yeah, I mean, we had many guys throughout the course of that run, including those seven games against the Warriors step up in a major way. So we'll always be connected, and now we're planning a 10-year reunion trip. So we'll see what happens.

1:10:19Lewis Howes:Oh, that's cool, man. I remember I was coming back from a USA handball trip in Buenos Aires when you guys won, and I was losing my mind because I'm from Ohio. So I was like, ah, it was the greatest thing. 52-year drought. It was the greatest feeling. It was just like, you know, we'd always suffered. So Cleveland Browns, Cleveland Cavs, it was like we've just suffered. Yeah. So you guys really brought it back. And so I acknowledge you guys for that. That was a lot of fun. This has been powerful, man. I'm really grateful for you opening up and hopefully we'll have you back on in the future sometime.

1:10:53Lewis Howes:Maybe when the last season is done, we'll come talk about it and see. what that time felt like. What that time frame, because you mentioned the one thing you want to do is to really have an impact on the guys you're surrounded with over these next however many seasons you play left. And I think that's a great way to, you know, bookend your career is about impact. You know, you've had all the success and winning and you'll probably still win and succeed. But I think from you going through the healing journey, you know, starting a little, almost a decade ago and finishing your career, whatever that is, being about impact and service, I think is going to be even more healing for you on this process.

1:11:37Lewis Howes:Whether it's one season or five or whatever you choose to do. So I'm excited to watch, man. I'm excited to see your journey. and if I can serve in any way, please let me know. I appreciate it. But I'm very excited about this. I have two final questions for you before I ask them. I want people to follow you on social media and check out your fund. Yes. Or the foundation. Can you share more about this and what this is all about? Yeah, Kevin Love Fund. It's kevinlovefund.org. Of course, you can find me on, just look for the memes. Kevin Love everywhere on social media. Yeah, just look for the memes.

1:12:12Lewis Howes:you'll find me but the kevin loan fund why did you want to start this and who's it about serving so i i think it it all started after the 20 um you know 17 pang attack and we started the fund with you know just the hopes of um impacting people as we could both mentally emotionally spiritually physically and you know what we kept finding myself asking I kept asking myself and others kept asking me like what would you tell your 15 year old self or what you know what what do you wish you could you know talk about like that five-year-old given the honor you know what do you wish that you could tell that person I thought you know what I didn't have was the emotional language in order to be able to express myself in a healthy way maybe especially as a young man and a young boy.

1:13:05So I thought, you know, what if there's a way to implement education and where it isn't just the spoken word or isn't just language that we can help kids create, you know, a very healthy way of being able to express themselves if they don't have that. So we had started a curriculum, Kevin Loveham started a curriculum that is based around on vulnerability and social emotional learning. And we started it in the classroom with the teachers showing what that looked like. And then among their peers, there was many different, up to a dozen to first, when we first started different lesson programs and lesson plans that we started with kids on how to show what they were going through, tell their story, tell a story with somebody going through something at arm's distance.

1:13:55So it was creative writing, it was poetry it was photography it was music certain things like that and we've worked with many different great people that have showed us how you know they have done it along the way and we partner with people like sony and we worked with steph curry and the goat and animation has a really cool way of being able to show true emotions and sometimes it's hiding in plain sight we work with the spiders for spider verse we did a short with them and that's cool and so So they've been a great partner in that. But we just continue to, you know, evolve the curriculum. And we have something coming up in May where it's based around friendship.

1:14:32So we talked about that as well. And we're leaning into relationships, how they impact everyone, healthy relationships moving forward. And finding your tribe and, you know, making sure that, you know, you find that in a healthy way to combat any sort of thing that you're feeling.

1:14:50Lewis Howes:Yeah, the thing you got coming out in May, May 1st, is called The Friend Effect is what I'm reading here. Creating community and building positive relationships. And it's a new free mental health lesson that's available for educators, school counselors, and coaches nationwide. And so it's starting on May 1st, first day of Mental Health Awareness Month. And it's available for immediate access at KevinLoveFund.org. So I recommend people going and checking that out. You know, I wish we had stuff growing up where we could just express ourselves in a safe environment without the other guys making fun of us.

1:15:26Lewis Howes:It really affects a young boy's psyche when they just, and it's not their, the other kid's fault. They didn't know how to receive, you know, this emotions or this communication or someone putting their arm around them. They didn't know how to respond either. So I don't blame other kids. Like we're all kind of at fault for this. but we just never had a place to to share a voice of like our concerns without being told shut up suck it up like stop crying don't be a little baby whatever it is that we all experience especially as young men right to not express emotion and it's counterintuitive to being successful in sports yeah showing weakness showing emotion showing them you're tired whatever it is like you can't show any of that yeah just be a man you know it's like how do you You can do that at eight years old.

1:16:13It's impossible. It is impossible. And like, you know, it's funny because like on the other side of that, you're paying for it now. Oh, yeah.

1:16:21Lewis Howes:You pay a big price. You pay a big price. The rest of your life. All your relationships suffer after that. Yes. Every relationship. Like what do we always say, right? Like you got to put your own oxygen mask on first. If you don't have that intervention early enough, and that's why, you know, we work on this at the fun. It's like you need some safe space, and why not have it be around your peers and not having to go down the hallway, not having to do it at home? And, you know, the more people that share, the more of, you know, a tribe and a community you create. And we've seen it work at a very high level.

1:16:56Yeah. So very, very proud of that, very proud of the work we're doing. And, yeah, the focus on friendship is fun, finding your tribe, yeah.

1:17:02Lewis Howes:I want people to check it out, kevinlovefun.org. You can also go there and make a donation. School of Greatness is making a donation as well because we believe in, you know, we really donate to a lot of youth programs and kids' education. And for me, emotional intelligence and healing is the most important thing we can all invest in. So I'm really glad you're doing this, man. Make sure to check out at Kevin Love on social media to see where he's going next in his career as well. We'll all see where that's happening hopefully soon. The two final questions I have for you, this one is called the three truths.

1:17:39Lewis Howes:And it's a hypothetical scenario. So imagine you get to live as long as you want to live in this life. And you get to create and accomplish everything. You get to end your career as an NBA player the way you want to and build a life the way you want to after that. But for whatever reason, on your last day, many years away, you have to take all of your work with you. So this conversation, people don't have access to. Anything you share publicly, anything you create, it has to go with you to the next place. No one has access to your content anymore. But on the last day, you get to leave behind three final truths, which would be your personal lessons of life.

1:18:18Lewis Howes:What do you think going into the future would be those three truths for you that you would leave behind? Nothing has just like the things we don't say. If we hold on to that, it's going to manifest or come out in some sort of way. And more often than not, I feel like it's not going to be good. It's not healthy. It just, you know, again, and that doesn't have to be verbalized. It's just like I was saying at the fun. There's different ways in order, in ways to do that. So epinocis like the things we don't say. Things one are done. Joy soul lies in the doing, set out to do. And try to live your life relentlessly curious without fear of prejudice.

1:18:55Lewis Howes:That's great. You had those on lock. That was clear for you. Final question. What's your definition of greatness? I think, you know, I always use the term and it's not mine. It's just something that I've tried to adopt and gear my life towards. And I'm not perfect. Especially after the season, I'm like, I'm just going to eat what I want and drink wine. And I don't care for 10 days, whatever it is. But, you know, discipline is deciding between what you want now and what you want most. So, and I think discipline is the path to greatness. like I've had to you know change my diet change how I take care of my body be more disciplined in my relationships sleep better the list goes on and on and all of that is the the destiny is all through that that discipline I know that like Ryan Holiday discipline is destiny right like I I truly believe that but I think deciding between what you know now what you want most I think that is that is the path it might not be the definition but that is certainly the path to where you want to go is all through discipline.

1:20:00Lewis Howes:Yeah, well, my man. Appreciate you. Thank you. Powerful, man. Wow. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

1:20:35Lewis Howes:I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

1:20:59What's up, sports fans? I'm Rachel Demita, here to tell you about my show, Courtside Club. If you love hoops and hot takes, then you're in the right place. Want to hear about Caitlin Clark's unstoppable rise in the WNBA? How stars like Wemby and Luka Doncic are dominating the NBA? Or maybe you just want the tea on this week's most viral sports moments. Don't worry, we'll keep you updated on all of it. So grab your popcorn and come hang with us. Courtside. You can listen to Courtside Club wherever you get your podcasts. Uwe and ah.

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