#242 Pete Scobell - SEAL Team 6 Operator Breaks Down the Hostage Rescue of Captain Phillips

34:18I have so much admiration for her and all the stuff she's been through, especially in the last year. and then back to the stadiums. And, you know, it's just a, I don't know, every time I go over there, I was there yesterday. Every time I go over there, I walk in the kitchen and now it's beautiful. It's all finished, you know? And I'm just, I'm like laughing. Just remember this first night, first days of, who are these people and what are we getting into? What is this? It was such a great part of my life. Thank you for sharing that, man. Yeah. I love them. I love Lye. I love Cactus. Elijah, their son, who's a police officer.

35:04I think a brother. Just the treasures. They're great people. Yeah. Let's get into your story here. Okay. You ready? Yep, I think so. All right, man. Where'd you grow up? born and raised in erie pennsylvania um my father was 51 when i was born my mother was 25 my father was a um was an attorney um world war ii vet he uh he'd gone to philips academy andover and wanted to enlist to be in the airborne and catch, he was trying to get into combat. And he got into the Army, took some tests, and they made him a bombardier, put him in the Army Air Corps. And he went to, became a bombardier navigator on a B-17.

35:59And he finished his time, didn't, he got over, I think he got over to England, missed the war, and then they came back. He did his four years, he got out, and his parents at the time were living in Chicago. and so he went to Chicago and they said there's a school up the road Northwestern you should go check it out and he had the GI Bill then so he went to check out Northwestern and he ended up loving it so went to Northwestern um doing great till his senior year played a fraternity prank and he got kicked out and um in that time his parents had moved back to Erie so So, but he had already been accepted to law school there and at Northwestern.

36:43And so they said, your punishment is you got to graduate from somewhere else. You can still go to law school, but you can't get your degree from here. So my dad went to Allegheny. He finished one semester at Allegheny. He got his degree and then went back to Northwestern undergrad. Or then he got his master's in economics and his law degree. And then they moved back to Erie to start his own law firm. And a lot of this, part of the reason why I'm doing this is for my kids because, like, his, I never met my grandparents. I didn't know, you know, like, a lot of this for me is, was hanging on my mind.

37:16Like, like, where are these stories? What are my, what are my kids, what are they going to know? But anyways, so this is, you know, my dad, he comes back and starts his own firm. He gets married, has a couple kids, and he gets divorced. and I have a half brother and a half sister that I don't really, we met a few times and we had a brief relationship, but it wasn't a lasting thing. And he was working as an attorney. He was very successful. And then meets my mom, who at the time was a, she was going to edinburgh university and studying music she was a viola player and also playing the philharmonic in erie my dad was just a newly divorced um attorney and he starts dating her and they date for like get married i think when she was around 21 and you know he's in his late 40s and i'm pretty sure i was an accident um Um, and here I show up, um, you know, he's 51 and my mom is, uh, 25, 25 at the time.

38:33And, uh, he had this house out in the country and we had a horse stable there. My mom, parent from pictures and whatnot, she loved horses. Um, she was, was a musician. She would go to parties and pull out a guitar and sing. And everyone used to tell me stories about her. and she was this vivacious, beautiful woman. And part of what they used to culture back then was they would, in the winters in Erie, we used to get tons of snow. And so everybody had snowmobiles. And the snowmobile crew, they would trail ride all over, and they would go bar hopping. And one night, I was, I must have been around 10 months old at the time.

39:13It was March. The crew came by the house and said, hey, come on, let's go out. my dad had just bought my mom a brand new John Deere 340 liquefire snowmobile my dad said you know what I'll watch Peter why don't you go out you haven't ridden this new snowmobile yet and so my mom went out with her crew and in Gerard a few miles away from our house there's a big open field and the story goes that my mom got in the open field and wanted to see what this new snowmobile can do and she hammered down on it and she hit a fence and was killed immediately and so their friends were there she you know they came upon her and she was gone and so here's my dad uh 51 years old and now he's a 10 month old baby and he was not prepared to be a father in that capacity and we had we had a family from right near us that was helping the burkles and at the time my mom had help from one of the daughters beach and they were german immigrants beach was actually born in germany and she came over and her brother ralph was actually born in germany as well spoke german in the house the father rudy wonderful wonderful man he was a butcher and and beach was helping with me and my mom dies and she just kind of goes full time and my dad ended up he post that he he kind of fell apart in like a big way um lost his practice you know he'd gone from this successful attorney and he just kind of i From what I can gather, he stopped kind of working.

41:04He went into a depression. He was a pretty heavy drinker. Very smart, but very ruthless with his words. And so Beach stepped in and started taking care of me, and my dad married her. And she was with—she was my mother. She was the one that I identified with.

41:30and my dad wasn't nice to her at all he was really mean to her and as i got older i started to see this um they got divorced and what age i was probably six when they got divorced that was when my dad's world was really coming apart the irs he hadn't paid taxes he had lost kind of everything. He had sold our main house. And I just recently remembered going through the adoption proceedings. My dad decided to give me to the beach. And so I remember being in the judge's chambers. Judge said, hey, who do you want to live with? And I was like, I want to go with her. And the judge was a friend of my dad.

42:20And I think my dad changed his mind at the last moment. and said, no, he's not leaving because she had decided to move. And her family was moving to Texas, moved into a new house and I would go visit her and I'd stay at the house all the time. And the brothers were like my uncles. And one day she came to the house and she said, I'm leaving. We're going to Texas. I said goodbye to me. And in that moment, and post Ibogaine therapy, therapy but in that moment I had this like they had told me stories about my mother and I'd seen pictures but but I had a mother so it wasn't like a priority you know what I mean it was like there but it wasn't there and then all of a sudden she was gone and I remember laying in my bed and I I still go back to this moment it was like the most horrific feeling I felt like I was being torn apart in every direction and i couldn't sleep i watched the sunset and i had this overwhelming feeling that nobody was coming for me my dad didn't want me and she was she was gone you know no you're not picking up the phone and calling and then here was my the pictures of my mom and my dad was like you know and i started asking questions but then i go back to that moment Because what I found is that with our community, I think a lot of people go through something at a young age that makes us driven, that lights this fire inside of us, that makes us want to achieve.

44:10And mine was fear. Nobody's coming for me. My dad would always tell me that, and I'm going to die at any minute. And right after my mom died, my dad had a catastrophic heart attack and was, and he was in the CCU and he was a heavy drinker. And the physician actually told me like, your dad left the CCU and walked down. He was at Hammond Hospital, walked down to the, there was a bar, the buoy. And he's like, I found your dad sitting at the buoy in his, in his robe, like having a drink and smoking his filterless Pommols. He's just like, I don't care anymore. he was just constantly telling me like i'm gonna die at any minute you got to figure this out how old are you at this point i was about seven or eight seven or eight years old yeah well i mean what specifically would he say just it was a constant reminder like hey listen you know i'm not gonna be here and so after beach left he took me out to this took me to ohio to a family that he was friends with.

45:11And we're going to stay a week. And he goes, we're kind of hanging out. They have two boys, the Buckles. Very nice. My dad, like, oh, I'm going to go home for a little bit. He goes home. And I overheard the family, like, well, you know, we've got to enroll them in school. And we've got to figure this out. And during while he was gone, they took me to the local school, enrolled me in school and I was like, hey, what's going on here? And they were like, well, your father, he was suicidal at the time and he was ready to like, hey, this kid needs it better than I can help him, better than I can give him.

45:59And I figured he, I'm like, oh, he's leaving me with these people. And he came back to visit and I crawled in the car and I was like, I'm not going, I'm not going anywhere without you.

46:12And he just kind of looked at me. I don't remember packing. I don't remember any of it. But I remember getting in the car saying, I'm not getting out. You're not leaving me. We drove back. And we went home. And it was just a lonely, I mean, the feeling of loneliness still haunts me. Like it still really haunts me. It did.

46:48And some of the families in the area, I knew what was going on, started calling my dad, saying, hey, you know, he's getting to this age. You should enroll him in soccer. You should enroll him in sports. And so, but I lived out in the middle of nowhere. I mean, I was 10 miles from anywhere where there were other kids. So we still had snowmobiles and my dad had this kind of remnants of toys. We had, he called it the toy barn and there was three, he bought me a three-wheeler and we had a pond in our front yard And I would spend my time in the woods with a BB gun or fishing in the pond. And I would talk to my mother.

47:38Just talk to her. And I had this relationship. And when I did my first Ibogaine journey, I was back in that, in the woods, walking around. And it put me back into those moments. And I didn't feel lonely when I would go in the woods and talk with her. I just, that was kind of my sanctuary. I never felt lost. I felt where I was supposed to be. I felt loved. And then my dad started signing me up for sports. You got to stay busy. I'm super excited to announce a project that I've been working on. I partnered with Ironclad for their newest original series, Target Intelligence, SIOP. It's an eight-part audio experience where we find out who is really pulling the strings.

48:26Enjoy this trailer and stay tuned to the end of the show to listen to the prologue. Buy it today at psyopshow.com. Link is in the show notes. The stakes have never been higher. Do you feel it? That something's off?

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49:40What would you talk to your mom about? Everything. I'd just have a conversation. I would be like, what kind of tree is that? I quite literally, like, where are those bugs from? Like, is that an anthill? What do you think? Like, I was a kid having just a conversation with somebody who wasn't there. But they were. That makes any sense. It was like this. And then I found her. She had a guitar. And I found her guitar. And I picked it up. And I started trying to play it. and I went to my dad I said hey can I take guitar lessons he's like no he anything I had to do with music he was like I think it was too painful for him um at one point I said hey can I can I can I try acting my dad was like no I'm not doing that you can do sports and so I was kind of this lost kid sitting in the sitting in my room and playing around in the yard alone um talking to his mom And we had a couple of kids in the neighborhood and a couple of families, the Supers that lived across the street from me.

50:48Mrs. Super would step in and she would pick me up on Sundays and take me to the Methodist church and try to put me in Sunday school. Nothing really took for me, but she cared enough. And in the mornings for school, I would walk up and I would get on the bus with David, her son who's a wonderful human being and i wait you know she'd feed me breakfast and i get on the bus and go to school the summers my dad when he was successful attorney joined the country club at this point he was we're still a member because he had paid the initiation fee but we weren't wasn't active in it and they had a swim team so one of the parents said you should you're still member there you should sign him up for the swim team and so my dad signed me up for the swim team and but instead of driving me the 10 miles he was like i bought you a bike so you're gonna get up in the morning you're gonna ride to swim team practice so i get up in the morning it was about 10 or 11 mile ride and crank on the pedals i get to swim team practice and um that's right i had my first group of friends like buddies that were you know we'd meet there the first thing in the morning and swim for an hour and the coach at the time was a guy named dave utley and dave was this larger than life person to me he was a he'd break broken every record in swimming at fairview where we were in school uh he'd been went to penn state swam for penn state was accepted to uh harvard medical school and he in the summers he was coaching and he took he deferred it so he could run the iron man and i was like what's an iron man and like well you know you swim two and two point two miles or whatever it is and then 100 mile bike ride and then a marathon and i was just like this guy is gonna do that like what and he immediately he was just cool he's just cool man he was just a cool wonderful human being like he just has this calmness about him and so he was the first guy that i was like I want to be like him whatever he's doing I want to I want to be like him and so I started taking swimming a little bit more seriously and he taught me how to swim um and since I took to swimming I was getting pretty good my dad signed me up for a another local swim team um in the winters uh I'd also play two he signed me up for soccer um I said hey I want to play baseball my grandfather and my mother's father was a baseball player my dad didn't like that side of the family and he was like you're not playing baseball you can play soccer so he dropped me off at soccer practice and i started getting good at soccer um and then he said you're gonna go wrestling practice wrestling okay pennsylvania everybody wrestles in pennsylvania signed me up for this little club team called jarard barbarians and And we practiced in the boiler room at the middle school.

53:56And that was the real deal, man. I remember going to my first practice there. And it was hardcore calisthenics, hardcore. We started out with 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, chest spins, jumping jacks. And we'd go and we'd run for 30 minutes and then round robin, work on moves. and I mean it wasn't it was gritty um I started wrestling I started getting good at wrestling and every time you know and then winter time the one thing my dad liked to do was ski and so we'd go to this little resort called peak and peak not a big resort 250 vertical feet and my dad loved skiing so I was like I wonder if I if I get good at skiing like maybe he'll like me or want me around.

54:43So I started trying to get really good at skiing. Some of my friends raced. I said, Hey, can I ski race? My dad was like, man, it's a lot of money. I got a lot of hand-me-down stuff. And the first year I raced, I placed in the state. Wow. And then second, I placed both years and I was getting up towards around eighth grade. Skiing was like the first thing that I felt this confidence. I would go up there and I was like, I belong here. Like, this is my place. And I was, I love freestyle skiing, but back then there was no freestyle skiing. Peak didn't have it. I didn't really like the racing. I was always good at it, but there's freestyle skiing.

55:25I wanted to freestyle. So I was spinning helicopters and I was about 13 years old. One day I'm in the lift line and this guy looks at me and he's like, hey man I saw you rip on the bumps about five years older than me um named Paul he's come ski with me I was like okay and this guy is five years older than me um turns out he was an amazing motocross rider he ran with this other guy who was uh Trevor Vines who Trevor was on the first Sobe can freestyle rider if you remember the first Sobe can it was that he was Trevor from wherever Trevor and Paul and and his crew of buddies Sean and Sean and they were five years older than me and because I was a good skier, they just kind of, Paul took me everywhere and he said, you got snowmobiles?

56:10You can come ride with us. He would drive out and pick me up. I mean, he's no reason to know each other. He just genuinely cared about me and he meant the world to me. He was just, he became another big brother. And so it was like a Dave in the summers And then I had Paul and got into skateboarding. I got just any sport that I could get my, any sport that I could do in skateboarding since I was out in the middle of nowhere. We had a cement driveway. I started building ramps and getting good at skateboarding. This was like Tony Hawk. This is, you know, early 90s. And I just, I got into everything that was skating.

56:52It was alternative. started running with a guy named Bobby Jensen. And Bobby was this amazing swimmer. I mean, like, he could have been an Olympian, an amazing skateboarder, and his whole family, JR, Gretchen. And they were just these awesome athletes, and we were a small community, so everybody kind of knew each other. And, you know, I would bounce around to the different families. And people kind of knew my background, so they'd, you know, sleep on a couch. they'd feed me here or there uh the a lot of the families in the area they just call themselves the herd and they were this you know the mom the the mrs zone mrs farrier and and uh mrs thomas and mrs stevens they all knew my background and i didn't know what they knew but they'd make sure i was fed and they make sure i was you know loved and taken care of and so i you know as i as i got towards high school um let's backtrack yeah when did the questions start for you about who your mom was i mean she died at 10 months old immediately you were 10 months old my first memories of when my dad when it was just my dad and i um at the house i would ask her ask him about her.

58:15What was she like? Who was she? Like, tell me about her. And he always shied away from the question. It was such a painful thing for him.

58:29So I would ask anybody I could find. People would come up to me, oh, I knew your mother. Like, what was she like? Tell me about her. um oh my god she would she was you know so charismatic and beautiful and uh she was such a great musician and they'd tell me some random story about her you know showing up at a party and grabbing a guitar and singing and I was like oh my god my dad was just he he was a very reserved he was really nice to other people was interesting he was very nice to other people, but it wasn't really nice to me. And I just kind of felt like anytime I could get away, I would get on my bike and leave, ride to swim practice, go hang with my friends there, take my skateboard and a backpack.

59:17Somebody, you know, somebody'd be building a new ramp somewhere and we'd go skate. I just kind of got to try to get away from him. And in the winter, skiing was my way to get away. And it was this constant theme when I was younger of just to get away. And he started dating another woman and she moved in and her son, John, great guy, he was like a punk, hardcore punk. He was into alternative music. And I remember he didn't really live with us ever but he kept stuff at our house and he had this box of tapes and i never knew what the bands were they were just like mix tapes back in the day remember we used to have to make a mix tape you just go through all these mix tapes and i put them in my stereo and you know i'm listening to like black flag and all these you know sex pistols and all these punk bands and i'm just like listening to this right first heard the cult and i i started to foster this love for music.

1:00:15It just came like I'd go to where I was drawn. And music really became this like sanctuary for me. And a couple of my other friends got into, I'll never forget it. We were going on a swim team trip and we were sitting on a bus and my buddy's like, you got to hear this. And I put on, remember those little puffy headphones? I put on little puffy headphones and I heard Black Dog for the first time, Led Zeppelin. And I was like, what was that? I'm like, who, what is this magical sauce you just poured into my ears? And it was like, oh, my God. And Andy and Craig were, they were musicians. Andy was a drummer.

1:01:01Craig plays everything. I was like, this is amazing. So I was like, what are you listening to? and and so it was like this time where music started to you know we didn't have Spotify you know like you did if you had to save up money to go buy a um you know a tape you'd go to the mall and you'd like go through the tapes and you'd be like oh I'm gonna get this tape and you you listen to everything right like you listen to both sides and and over and over and over again you read the inside cover like what was going on and like so music became this like haven sports and music How do I like disappear from this world that I don't really feel like I belong in or I don't feel like I'm wanted in?

1:01:45And I talk about music a lot because it really was this like safe haven for me. What about Beach? Did you ever hear from her again? Yeah. She moved to Texas and she started dating a guy. and she was going to get married and I was supposed to fly down to be in the wedding, to be there. And before the flight, my dad said, the trip's canceled. And I was like, what do you mean the trip's canceled? And he sat me down. He wasn't really nice about it. He goes, look, the guy she's marrying doesn't want you there. he doesn't want any part of her past he wants a fresh start with her and you know the

1:02:47This part of me that woke up that day was like the protector. And I was like, okay, I want her to be happy. I remember looking at my dad like, you treated her like shit. You were not nice. You were mean to her. And she was a young girl. She was like 21. And she stepped in between me and you. and she made sure that I, there was no gap when my mom went away. And I wanted her to be so, I wanted her to be happy. And I, I, I respected that. I never, I never pursued her after that.

1:03:27And driving down here, I,

1:03:34talking to God in the car and I said, should I talk about beach? And I looked down at my thing, and it's 333 miles to Nashville. I'm like, okay. A few more miles go by, and I pass an exit. It's a beach road, B-E-E-C-H. I'm like, this needs to be said. I was debating on whether I'm bringing up this part of my life.

1:04:10But I know she's been brokenhearted over this, all these years. You know, she had her 68th birthday two days ago, and her brother still keeps me kind of informed and I've let her be. It's always been heartbreaking knowing that she was walking the earth and she didn't want or couldn't. I don't know if she wanted to.

1:04:36But I want her to know that I forgive her.

1:04:43I know there's something, I feel it, but I forgive her. She did everything she could. I wanted her. I hope she had a great life. I do. I hope she's happy. and you know and I wouldn't be here telling you this story had that not happened it set me on a course that I'll never be able to in a weird way thank her for

1:05:19that I forgive her

1:05:25yeah

1:05:29in that day you know it's interesting i go back to that day and that was a day that when i felt like nobody was coming for me she i lost my mom too she died in my head like oh she's gone like this is what it's i was supposed to feel this you know what i mean like i it ripped me apart like she had left but that leaving like opened up the wound of knowing that like my real mom was gone and my dad didn't want me and it was just like a and i don't i don't think he didn't want me because he was like mean i think he didn't he felt like he couldn't do anything for me like he was so he felt so bad about himself that he felt so bad about himself that he felt like he couldn't bring anything to the table and he turned to me and he was really hard on me about everything every sport you're not good enough you're not fast enough you got to be better why'd you get second place second place the first loser you gotta be first and i became maniacal and and then the winners i would hide up in the peak my buddies would pick me up we go skiing and i could i could be free on the slopes is your dad still alive no did you see that just happen what's the lights just shut off i know

1:07:12yeah he passed away my freshman year at the naval academy

1:07:21let me ask you this I mean you said you were talking to your mom in the woods yeah do you still do that

1:07:32no I don't why Because I've realized that that voice in my head was God. She's with him. And that's what that has been. That's what brought me peace. Do you think she's ever spoken to you since she's passed? I think she's had a hand in protecting me at every turn. No doubt in my mind. You go back and you think like, you know, after I got hurt and you realize like you have 30 ,000 neurons in your heart and you got 30 ,000 neurons plus in your gut. And you have this access of, you know, your brain's telling you one thing, your heart's telling you one thing, your gut's telling you one thing. And I was always really attuned to that.

1:08:27I think as an empath, and I was always good at reading people and situations and finding my way. But because of that voice, I was trusted in that access, I guess. And there was definitely times where I'd be like, yeah, we're not going down that road in Baghdad. We're going to keep going straight. and then you know i do find out like the next day and m1 got ied on a culvert uh on the road that we didn't go down you know and i just thought to myself like i'm just gonna keep i'm gonna keep keep in touch with that with that access and all my big decisions in life i always knew what the right thing was i didn't always do it but i always knew what the right thing was and I think that voice and for years I've always thought she was watching over me.

1:09:32Do you think your dad has ever spoken to since he's passed? I don't know if that was him. It just turned the lights out. I think it was. I think it was too. How does that feel?

1:09:51you know he he was a it's funny when i got to when i got to high school uh spring sports i played soccer in the fall played i swam in the winter and we skied and then spring came along in high school and there was track i'm like i walk on the track team i don't know what i'm gonna do i'm a freshman i see this pole vaulting and i'm like i'll try that i start pole vaulting and uh i sucked at it i mean like it was embarrassing it was like the coach coach keck at the time he's like oh my god you gotta you gotta just go jump in the sand pit like you just this is this is you're embarrassing yourself and my dad my dad would come to my sporting events just sit in the corner never say anything He came to a track meet.

1:10:43And after my first track meet, he goes, I got in the car, he goes, you need to quit. This is embarrassing. I was like, and I remember thinking to myself, I looked at him and I was just like, fuck you. I'm like, I'm not quitting, man. I want to figure this out. And I go back to practice the next day and Keck would be like, oh my God, you're back? And I think my freshman year I jumped like, I'm not kidding. I jumped seven feet, eight feet, you know. And I wasn't fast. I wasn't a good sprinter at the time. I went through this growth spurt. I was like, I couldn't really run. You know, when you're a kid, I grew like 10 inches.

1:11:19I went from being like 5 foot to 5 '10 in 12 months. And when you grow like that, you just become gangly and slow and uncoordinated. And my dad's like, what is, you are, I was horrible soccer that year. I was horrible swimming that year. I was horrible at track. My dad was just like, and your grades suck. Like you, I don't even know what to do with you. like and he was just like you you got to figure something out and the next year i started i got a little bit my legs underneath me and soccer get a little bit together and swimming and then track season starts my dad goes you're not doing it you're not doing it i can't i'm not i'm not going to support this like you just got to stop you're embarrassing so i went i jumped i jumped i jumped and then my dad wouldn't come to any meets and then we had another jumper my name was Ty Baird.

1:12:10Ty was just this amazing athlete. Everything Ty touched, he was just like unbelievable. Unbelievable soccer player, leading scorer, unbelievable basketball player. And he's pole vaulted and jumping like 13 feet. And he was just a natural athlete, light on his feet. And here's me like just like stumbling all over the place. Ty, it turns out he had a degenerative back problem. And he was having all these back pains. And the middle of pole vault season, they said, hey, you have to have your spine fused. and you can't jump anymore. And I showed up to practice and it was cold and rainy and Ty was sitting there and I walk in and my coach goes, okay, so I have you.

1:12:51He goes, I want you to measure eight laps, plant the pole, I'll make sure you hit the pad. And I was like, what? I mean, it's a 14 foot pole and I'd been jumping in the sandbox. Like, I mean, this is straight out like Karate Kid shit. Like, you know, wax on, wax off. I'm jumping in the sand pit I'm like, is this going to work? And then now I'm holding at the end of a 14-foot pole, and he wants me to run as fast as I can, plant this thing, and he's going to make sure I hit the mat. And I remember standing back there, and I'm just like, all right, you know what? I just had this moment where I'm like, I can do this.

1:13:26I don't know why I thought that. I run down, plant the pole, and it happened. And it didn't just happen in a light way. like everything just fell into place. And that day I jumped 13 feet. I'd never even gotten off the ground before. And I go to jump at 13 feet. And I went into the next day in school, I had one of the other track coaches and that happened at like six o 'clock at night. So I go to the next day and one of our soccer coaches, also one of my teachers and the track coach. I'm like, Hey, Mr. Double, I jumped like 13 feet last night. And he's like, no, you didn't. Like, I just watched you last week.

1:14:06Like, you can't even, you couldn't even get onto the mat. I'm like, no, I did it. And went back to practice the next day. And I remember that the pole vault record at the time was 14 feet. And I was like, I can do this. Like, I can do this. My dad, I said, dad, I'm really good at pole vault. He's like, you got to quit. I'm not, I'm not supporting this. So I became an the county meet and the district meet and I jumped 12.6. Didn't jump as high as I wanted to. But you get to 12.6 in Pennsylvania, you're kind of, people start to notice, mostly because your track season's so short. You know, anywhere else in the country, you can jump all year long, but you have two months or three months to run track.

1:14:54And so that summer, I started working with my coach. And my dad was mad that I was working with my coach all the time. And that winter, I stopped. There was another, my coach was like, hey, I think you can actually do this. He called the other coach from Joe Sanford from McDowell, and he says, can Pete jump with you guys indoors in the winter? And Joe was like, yeah. And Joe, another Christian, just absolutely the best human being I've ever met in my life. And I don't say that lightly. Like Joe Sanford, he just is, everybody in Pennsylvania knows Coach Sanford. He was a football coach at McDowell.

1:15:33He played at Edinburgh as well. But he's like ball of positive energy, and he would run his pole vault. He'd be just turning out state champions and record holders. I show up as a Fairview kid, and Joe just, and so I got Joe and Keck. Me and my dad just like, you suck at this, and he's not coming to any meets. Jump all winter. And actually this summer I went to Slippery Rock pole vault camp. And spring comes around, my first meet my junior year, and I jump 14 feet, 14-3, and I break the record, the school record that had been there since 1976, a year before I was born. And I was like, this is, I'm doing this.

1:16:17And that year I ended up, I won almost, I won every meet I entered. i went to states i tied for first and lost on misses jumped 14 feet that year damn and um senior year comes along i'm i'm i'm blowing this thing out of the water like i'm gonna take this as far as i can go and um jumped all winter long senior year same thing broke every record at every meet I jumped in I jumped 15-1 um one districts one states and uh my dad came to that the state meet the only time he came to see me jump and he shows up at the state meet weather sucks I actually jumped the lowest I've ever jumped in that year I jumped at the state meet and I think partly because my dad was there and uh I jumped 14 feet and I tied for first but I won on misses that year even though I had jumped 15-1, the week before I jumped 15-1.

1:17:19Anyways, it was like this, I don't know, pole vaulting became my way of rebelling. Like I can do this. In the summers, my dad said, you got to work, and there's Presque Isle State Park, which is a beach. It's actually the most visited state park in Pennsylvania and in the country. and it's a it's like six miles of beaches uh in erie and they have a lifeguard that go out every day and and guard the beaches in the summers and that was where like all the elite swimmers in erie would go work and you had morning workouts so it's kind of like the team should show up and you'd have a morning you know run swim run you get your beach assignments and you head out to your beach and you were there until eight o 'clock at night and you know rinse and rinse and repeat the next day and my dad's like you're gonna work at the beach it's where all the swimmers work i know you like this track thing but you're a swimmer um and i was i my junior year i think i went to states in four events a couple relays a couple individual events yeah and my senior year i did the same thing my coach unbeknownst to mr jensen i didn't go to any practices then i showed up first districts and go to states in a bunch of events he's like you set horrible example of like i'm pole vaulting um in the summers i was working at presk isle and that first summer before i broke the record um was my rookie year as a lifeguard and all these guys are like all all swimmers that i looked up to in the town from all different schools and um it was a real it was the first time i felt responsibility like you're you're looking at a beach and you know bob north and john dalstrand are still the managers out there and they take it very seriously you You know, when I had started working there, we had never had a drowning on any of our beaches.

1:19:11And it was, you know, there have been accidents since then and everybody did their job. But, you know, but at that moment, it was like, hey, we got a reputation uphold here. And, you know, you're joining this elite group. And I like that. I like feeling like I was being part of something that other people couldn't do. and um so my my rookie year uh during discover presquire days they pulled me off the beach i'm normally on and they said we're sitting at beach eight uh we're expecting like 5 000 people on the beach and the water is just like jam-packed with people and um i get out there and i'm like oh my god and of course being the new guy just like the teams they're like like there's you know big nice lifeguard chart and they're like, yeah, you see the, uh, see, see the last one on the end over there.

1:20:04That's like, this is like rickety and barely holding up. You go to that one. And, uh, so I wandered down there and I'm watching this and I'm just like kind of overwhelmed with the amount of people that are in and out of the water. And you'd see people in the unguarded area and you'd whistle them out. And, um, I watched this guy run down the beach and stand up and I put my I whistle in my mouth like, I'm going to whistle him when he jumps in the unguarded area. Got to keep the people out of the unguarded area. Guy runs down the beach, he dives in, and I see him all of a sudden float up. And he's face down.

1:20:41And I see him start to shake a little bit. And I'm like, I knew right away, I'm like, he broke his neck. So I turn and I whistle to the head lifeguard. And I jumped off my chair, grabbed my rescue tube, head straight down the beach, and everything just got like slow. I got to the guy, put him in a head chin splint and I flipped him over. Started taking his pulse with my other fingers as the other guards got there and a rescue breathing mask on the end of my tube. And I'm like, hey, get the tube out. He's not breathing, doesn't have a pulse. And when I said that, his family had come down the beach to see what was going on.

1:21:21And then this crowd started to form, like a huge crowd. And I said, he's not breathing, doesn't have a pulse. as the head lifeguard showed up with his radio. And then the crowd starts yelling, like, get him out of the water, get him out of the water. Then they start getting really mad. Like, a guy comes in, he's like, I'm a doctor. He grabs him by the foot. And I was like, release his foot. And I was holding him in a head-chin splint because I knew, like, listen, if I move this guy right now, he's going to be, he's going to die, basically. I was afraid that it was a full, you know, sever the spinal cord.

1:21:54And we gave him two breaths and he started breathing. but like seven times a minute. So I'm like, there's a spinal cord injury. We got to keep them in the head, chin, chin, splint. And then for about five minutes, it was this onslaught of people screaming, like, get them out of the water, you stupid fucking lifeguard. You're going to kill them. Everybody had been drinking. But I remember just being like, no, I know what we need to do here. And then I remember hearing the sirens as I'm laying in the water holding this guy. and I was getting really tired, like dealing with the waves and the sirens and the jet skis, everybody shows up and we put them in a board and we sent them away.

1:22:38My boss, John Dahlstra, walks up to me, he goes, all right, get back up on the chair. I'm like, what? What do you mean, get back up on the chair, dude? He's like, get back up on the chair. And they start questioning people as to what happened. And in my mind, you're just running through your mind. You're like, do everything right you know like and the woman his wife about three hours later shows up at the foot of my chair and she says i'm sorry and i was like what who are you she goes you you saved my husband's life and i said and then i remembered her yelling at me and she said when we took him to the ER, the ER doctor said that he has a spinal compression.

1:23:20And had you moved him, there was fragments all around his spinal cord. Had you moved him, he would have cut his spinal cord and he would have either died or been permanently paralyzed. And I'm sorry. And I remember just being like, I just had this moment where I'm like, I found something I'm good at. like when everything goes to shit like I'm good like that was it that was a fork in the road for me I came home that night and it was on the evening news I remember walking in I didn't say anything to my dad my dad's like you want to tell me something I'm like what you don't what you don't care about me he's like I just what happened at the beach I was like I don't know made a save and the next day in the paper that said um the title of the article just said a rookie lifeguard makes save and the first line it says uh he was calm he never yelled he saved his life and it was a quote from the man's wife and i it was a that was leading into my senior year of jumping and i just all of a sudden had this i feel like when i was there i i just had this moment of calm and just patience where I'm like, this is exactly where I'm supposed to be.

1:24:36I know exactly what I'm doing. And I am meant to be here. I don't know how I knew that. It was like that feeling that someone was watching over me. And that led me into my senior year jumping. And that confidence kind of all of a sudden bled through. And around that time, that's when I first heard about the seal teams and i'm like i'm gonna be a navy seal what did that before we get into that i mean what did it feel like i mean did your dad did your dad ever give you positive affirmation for that never to my face i mean he he was constantly saying hey listen you need to be ready to do this on your own because I'm going to die at any minute.

1:25:27You're not good enough. You're not strong enough. You're not fast enough. Your grades suck. You got lucky. When I tied for first my junior year, that was right before the summer of working at the Presque Isle, my rookie season there. Came home and I was like, hey, here's my silver medal, state silver medal. My dad goes, congratulations, you're the first loser. you should have been working and i was like

1:25:57okay put it in the drawer and i went you know and had my summer and that that happened during that summer and that was like kind of a that was the i don't need you man did you ever get a positive affirmation from him no all the way up until he died yeah man when i graduated from buds He came out to the graduation ceremony and it was over. I got my, you know, Bud's graduation certificate. And my dad takes it, folds it in half and puts it under his arm. He goes, why weren't you the honor man? And I was like, I just kind of looked at him like, whatever, man. And when I went to the Naval Academy, I said, Dad, I got into the Naval Academy.

1:26:45He's like, why would you go there? What do you mean? Why would I go there? He's like, why don't you get out and, you know, finish your time in the SEALs and get out, go to Northwestern, you know, do something else. You don't need that chicken shit. He called it chicken shit, you know, experience. and not one time until the day he died,

1:27:15I just left class and I got an A on a calculus test. And my dad told me a story that the only class he dropped in college was calculus. You got an A on a calculus test? I know, right? so i i run into fifth wing and um there's a pay phone and i had a i had a i mean this is before before cell phones all that stuff like i had there's a pay phone and uh i had an at &t calling card and i was like i'm gonna tell him i got a fucking a on a calculus test and i call him up and he happened to answer i was gonna leave a message on the machine and he said what's up And I was like, Dad, I got an A on a calculus test.

1:27:54And he starts laughing. And he goes, and he just had like a very calm way about him. And I said, I just wanted to tell you that. I got to go. I got to go to track practice. And he goes, I love you. And I said, I love you too. He never said that to me. and I hung up the phone. What I didn't know was he laid down on the couch and he died probably 15 minutes after that. That's the only thing he ever said to me that was like positive. The last time I physically saw him was at the Naval Academy. He came down for a visit. His heart was giving out. I wanted to show him around like, this isn't chicken shit.

1:28:45This is a pretty amazing place. And we sat on a scribbling walk, and he said to me, I think you'll be all right. And I just kind of looked at him, and I'm like, okay. You know, and it was, I don't have any,

1:29:11I just remember thinking, like, when I'm a dad, I'm not gonna be like him.

1:29:19That was in my head. When I'm a dad, I'm not gonna be like him.

1:29:26What would you say to your dad now if he was there?

1:29:33I forgive you.

1:29:37A lot of lessons learned in his time, in this human experience. i hope we learned them all i think i ended up all right

1:29:53why do you think he was so reluctant to give you any credibility or affirmations or i think he thought i was gonna quit pushing you think he was trying to prepare are you? I think he was. I think he was.

1:30:14You know, when he died, I came back to the academy, and it was like it never happened. I didn't think I had Jeremy and Brett and Johnny. But it was like, I remember feeling like alone in the world. It was a really kind of an empty moment and to the credit one of my friends families Bob Ferrier he met me for breakfast the day I got home from the Academy and my dad was dead and he goes you're enjoying my family I said what do you mean he was you're part of the family you know one of my sons now and Bob stepped up and and I just I just put it behind me and I moved on. Yeah, man. Yeah, it was pretty heavy.

1:31:08That was a lot as a kid.

1:31:13But I do, I really do forgive him. I think he was doing the best with what he had. I think he was depressed. I think he was dejected. And I think he, you know, he,

1:31:26I don't know if you ever found his faith. And that, you know, I pray that he did. I don't know. It wasn't a bad, you know, I guess the way I tell it is, you know, it sounds like he was this horrible person. He wasn't horrible. He was just over there. And he was always pushing. And when you're a kid, you want somebody with you. You know? You know, maybe I could have, maybe I would have been a better athlete if he would have been more supporter. You know, maybe I would, maybe I would have been a better student. Maybe I would have been better. I don't know, but I was like, I don't understand how you do that as a dad.

1:32:18I just don't. and I you know when I got in the Navy

1:32:28I remember that he dropped well I told him I'm joining the SEAL teams going in the Navy I don't care about SATs I don't care about all that stuff I'm not going to college I had scholarship offers to Penn State UMass for track and field I'm gonna go be a SEAL my dad's like you'll never make it don't do that and that summer the summer after i graduated dead center in the navy and then i met a girl and she had gone to penn state and i was like yeah maybe i can go to penn state because it was it was my first like girlfriend and it was the first person that saw me for who i was we liked the same music she introduced me to steely dan like you know like steely dan are you kidding me like she liked her fauna and rush huge rush fan i love rush um and so i kind of like i hesitated and the last second i went to slippery rock they had the pole vault program and about six weeks into it i had never been to class and i was like this is stupid and she dumped me she's like you need to go figure it out it's the greatest thing that ever happened to me.

1:33:39And I went on this round trip. I got my car. I mean, we didn't have GPSs back then. I got my car, started driving west. I didn't stop until I got to San Diego. I wanted to see the beach. I wanted to see Coronado. So I literally drove from Slippery Rock, Pennsylvania, swung through West Virginia, where my wife was actually going to school. And I saw her. She was just a friend of mine at the time. And then I disappeared. nobody saw me for about three months and i went to coronado i saw buds and i looked at the beach and i saw the training buds students running went up in the mountains i went to mammoth i went skiing thought maybe i can maybe i'll stop here maybe i can pursue the skiing thing um and then the voice was like join the navy i hopped in my car and i drove all the way back and i drove straight to penn state i saw the penn state michigan game biaqua patuka was the running back i don't know I remember that other than the fact that like Bianca Batuco, like I was like, man, that'd be a rough name to grow up with.

1:34:44But I remember he was a running back for Michigan. And yeah, I went back to Penn State to see a bunch of my friends who were going to Penn State at the time. And you're good friends with Rhett. You just had Rhett on here. And I was going to tell the story first because Rhett was on there. but this is one of the guys, a good friend I grew up with. He's quite literally the Van Wilder, the original Van Wilder. He spent 10 years in Penn State and in fraternity. He was there 10 years, a decade. He's going, everybody calls him Reese. He's like Oprah. He's like a legend. And he was in this fraternity and I'm like, well, I'm going to go see Reese.

1:35:28And Reese is one of these guys that just does weird shit. And he ends up pulling stuff off. The first time I ever saw Pat Monahan sing, who's a singer for Train, was in Reese's basement in Fairview. And Pat Monahan was singing for Rhodes Gallery. And it was a Led Zeppelin cover band. And Reese's like five years older than me. And I'm like, oh my God. That was the first time I saw. We had all these little parties. That's where you got into the music scene. Reese, he was like a legend for parties. He just made stuff happen. So I'm like, I'll go, I'm going to go see Reese. So I go to the KDR house and there's a bunch of pledges.

1:36:06I'm like, hey, I need to see Reese. And they're all like, I'm not taking him upstairs. I'm like, come on, I need to see Reese. So finally one dejected pledge takes me up to the top floor, knocks on the door, and Reese is in there. He's like, enter. I open the door. It's like 10 in the morning. Reese has got a bathrobe on. He's got a visor with flashing lights. And he's got a beer in his hand. and he goes uh and the plebs like this or the pledge is like hey this is pisco boss here to see you and he's like oh pete come on in and just as the pledge is about to leave he goes you're not going anywhere just get in here pick a pepper and i'm like i'm like what is it he's like he's like see these peppers i've been drying them out for like six months he's like they're like hottest peppers in the world and this kid is just he doesn't want to eat the pepper so he grabs a pepper and he's like he's like eat it the pledge eats it and he goes all right so what's going on and I'm like looking at this kid who's just starting to like dude he's like he's got snot coming out of every angle of his body and I'm like doesn't he need some water and he's like no no no he needs milk but he's not getting it for another two minutes he's gotta go for two minutes and I'm looking at Reese and I'm like dude I'm gonna I'm gonna join the navy I'm gonna be a seal he goes ah we got a guy out there his name's Elvis when you get out there look for him and I'm like what he goes you staying tonight and i'm like no he goes well anyways anyways good luck i'm like are you sure he's gonna be there he's like oh yeah yeah yeah he's been there a while but yeah when you get out there look for elvis and i'm like what the fuck was that and i'm leaving the fraternity i get to buds and check in 208 you know it's like chaos everywhere everybody's running around and And I'm just kind of overwhelmed.

1:37:54Like, holy shit. And there's this one rollback who, he like talked to the instructors. And they'd be like, hey, come here. And there's Rutherford on his shirt. And they like kind of respected him. And he was in rollback land. And I'm like, and I realized like he had been beaten to a pulp. And they were just like, we can't beat the guy any harder. He won't quit. So they stopped. They were just like respectful of Rutherford. anyways uh you know we're going through uh getting your gear and um he ended up getting me a pair of udts and he's like yeah give him a new pair and i was and i'm like why why do i get a new pair he goes and all the other ones had the names through the back you know you stenciled your name on it and there was like a name cross out and another guy underneath cross out was all the quitters he's like that's bad luck he's like you want a fresh pair of udts so the first weekend meeting I look over and there's Rutherford and he's wearing a floral shirt and he's got Roy Orbison sunglasses on.

1:38:50And I'm like, that much has changed. And I look at him. I'm like, and in my mind, I'm like, I think that's Elvis. So I walk up to him and I'm like, hey, man, are you Elvis? He like rips his sunglasses off. He looks at me and goes, no one's called me that in a long time. i was like uh reese from penn state said to come find you and he's like reese how's he doing and i'm just thinking this like how this the world just happened and so when reese or would you know i became good friends with red during buds because of my friend reese who ended up being the manager of my band never are you serious so reese ended up being the manager of my band he does everything he's got a bar in ass but he's just one of these guys that does but he's he's a legend he actually graduated in 10 years from penn state i think he got like an associates in like underwater fire prevention or leisure studies or whatever it was uh but he's just he's a great dude he's that's that's how i met rutherford um anyways i decided to go in the Navy obviously and I come I drop out of Slippery Rock go around the country and I show up at my doorstep my dad meets me at the doorstep and he says uh you're not coming in here and I was like he you dropped out of college he disappeared for two months you you can live somewhere but ain't gonna be here and I was like I'm joining the Navy he goes well show me a piece of paper I drive down to the recruiting station on State Street.

1:40:31I'm like, hey, I want to be a SEAL. And they're like, nah, you want to be a nuke. I'm like, nah, I want to be a SEAL. And they're like, yeah, no one does that, especially from around here. No one does that. I take the ASVAB test and I did pretty well. And they're like trying to sign me up for nuke paper. I'm like, I just need a piece of paper. So they give me that first piece of paper, like your intention to go to MEPS or whatever it is, take it home. And I have a MEPS date, it's 1995, I have a MEPS date in December, first week of December. And I showed it to my dad, he goes, all right, you can stay here until you go to MEPS.

1:41:11I go to MEPS and I go through the process and I sign up for the dive fairer program and I want to be a medic. And I want to be a medic because on the beach when I saved that guy, I was like, I want I want to help people. Like, I want to go to the worst place, worst places on earth and be the guy that helps people. And so the diaphair program, you went to Bud's and then you went, or you went to bootcamp, then you went to Bud's. And then after that, you went to 18 Delta and got your medic name, medic certification. I was like, that's perfect. That's what I'm gonna do. Come home, show my dad, I'm like, hey, enlisted.

1:41:51When's your shipping out date? January 26th. He goes, all right, you can stay here until then. On the day of boot camp, we drove down to Pittsburgh. He stayed at John's house. The Steelers lost the Super Bowl to the Cowboys the night before. I remember that. It's like, and my dad put me in a cab, like an old beat up. you know just a nasty old smelly cab and i was like later went through a camp damn man never never stepped foot back in that house when i would come home i would go stay with friends and stuff yeah it was a you know in the summers when i was younger i would go visit my grandparents in Pittsburgh my grandpa was this legendary guy he was a CB in World War two was on Saipan in Okinawa and then he became a worked in the steel mills pitched semi-pro baseball and pitched I think he pitched for pitch batting practice for the Orioles I was just as larger-than-life guy and I go down to visit them and my grandmother hated my father hated him and she was Catholic and she was the expert of of the shame and guilt the Catholic shame and every time I get down there she would just tear into me about my father and I was just like hey like I don't like the guy either But, like, you know, he's still trying.

1:43:41You know what I mean? In the back of my mind, I'm like, he's still giving it the college tries. I can't, like, you know, I can't hammer him too hard. And she is on this thing about how my dad, you know, took – there was a life insurance policy. And when your mother died, your dad – it was supposed to go to me. And your father took it from me. And I was like – and, you know, she'd show me pieces of paper. I hired a private investigator. And I was like, as distant as my father was, he wasn't evil. You know what I mean? And it just really soured. I love my grandfather and he was this wonderful human being.

1:44:21And they were big on my, you weren't baptized. Your father wouldn't allow you to be baptized, but we snuck you in. And your mother and I baptized you in the Catholic church. and you know she would tell me these stories and i was like i don't know man it's just i just had a bad taste in my mouth about catholics and catholicism it was my and my grandmother kind of hanging over over us it wasn't it wasn't a nice they were great people though i go down the summers and my grandfather would take me to the um pirates games and um and in those summers I would get to see my cousin Alex, who he had been born in Lesotho.

1:45:05Our moms were best friends and sisters and were college roommates. And he had been born in Lesotho, was being raised over there. His father was an international engineer put in water systems. And he was an Air Force combat veteran Vietnam, I was like part of the first CCT group. And I could see Alex in the summer. That was like my highlight. And he was the one, one summer we decided we wanted to be seals and we're gonna do this. And grandpa, he told me about the frogmen at Saipan. And I was like, that's cool, man. Like I wanna swim ashore. The idea, like being underwater and sneaky, being in places that nobody was and doing stuff that, you know, that was cool to me.

1:45:58And I was good in the water. And it was both Alex and I, he went on to be a team guy as well. A couple of years after me. And he retired from the teams as well. Still one of my... But that, you know, those younger years, it was, I couldn't wait to get out of there. but it was it was music i was playing in bands um playing these little bands we would pick up and like you know grateful dead cover songs or jammed a fish or then plain urbana and stone temple pilots and led zeppelin and you know i was like into music into skiing and just anything to get away from my my house and then i just kind of walked in the Navy.

1:46:51I used to start a new life. Doing all right? Yeah, man. Good. That was a lot. I didn't know where I was going to go with my, I hadn't talked about beach and I buried that. Feel good about it? Yeah. Yeah. I'll bet this gets to her. What's that? I'll bet this gets to her. I don't know if I want to.

1:47:20forgive her i don't know if i want her i think as a dad now i look at it and i'm like i get it she was a kid she needed to live her life and i wanted that for i wasn't her biological son so there was part of me that was like i understand that but what i wonder if she understood is that like my bond was with her like I didn't know the difference yeah and that was what set it just changed everything

1:47:57that's a lot to go through man a lot as a kid man I think about my kids like we'll talk about it later but like one of the opportunities to be on set with Walker and be there for all of that when we get into the Adam project dude that comes full circle on dad that movie is a father son love story about going back in time and talking to your dad yeah wow oh, that's when you're like, okay. I think I've been a little bit hard on him in the beginning of this interview because when all of a sudden it was Walker and I alone for four months shooting this movie about fathers and sons, it was like, holy fuck.

1:48:58And Ryan Reynolds and Sean Levy, and we all had these issues with our fathers and and we're all dads and they are they have girls ryan finally has a son but there were moments where we were shooting this that it was like just heavy heavy for all of us um but it was because like of the like the weight you've been carrying and like i i saw my father from his side for that time when we're shooting that movie you know what i mean and i was like oh man that must have been much harder than i thought it was you know i just saw him pushing me but maybe he did feel what i feel for him and there was a lot of forgiveness in that of his distance and behavior like he didn't and i felt that like my scars from the teams like I didn't want to pour that onto him, you know, like, and I was pulled back with my kids and I mean, that was that movie.

1:50:14I still, I got on a plane, guy next to me pulls up Netflix and he pulls up the Adam project and watches it. And I'm like watching this dude, watching my kid and he's crying. And I'm like crying next to him. And he's like, you ever watch this movie? This movie's amazing. And I'm like, yeah, that's my favorite movie. And I don't tell him. I can't even say another word about it. It's like the ultimate dad moment, you know? I'm watching somebody watch my kid. my kid changing the world in front of me you're just like whoa

1:51:07yeah a lot of you know i talk about my childhood is tough and i'm tough on my dad but man if i didn't have the experiences that i've had the failures that i've had like pulled me into you know the beginning of his his career um and being home for that that was so healing it was like every day so much every day and sean oh we'll get into that that was sean those guys that experience i don't care about politics fuck all that stuff man And we were there as rock human beings making a beautiful piece of art. And I watched a kid doing exactly what he was put on earth to do.

1:52:11Pretty amazing. Dude, you can't, I can barely watch that movie, man. I can barely watch a movie. And it was funny. It was punctuated, but these moments we would have, just heaviness, and then Ryan's sense of humor. He's very much like a team guy. Like, is that our same? And you know what? He carries around a lot of weight, too. I mean, his dad. And he covers it up with humor. And, you know, you spend four months with people, you see things and feel things and talk about things. and uh you know i that's everybody's going through that everybody's got an issue with their dad i've found and especially in driven people like what what's you find you go to these elite groups whether it's athletes artists veterans whatever you go to these elite groups called lead achieving people.

1:53:16And a lot of it comes from pain in the past that lights the path ahead. Like, I'm not going there. I'm going somewhere great. And you're going to be mad when I'm successful, or whatever it is. You know?

1:53:37Dad was... Again, I can't be mad at him. Do you think you would be who you are today if he wouldn't push you like that? No. No. Not on those moments and buds. And you know what I'm talking about. Like Monday night when you're like, fuck this. Like back in the surf, you're watching the sunset over Point Loma. And you've just been through Sunday all day Monday. And you're realizing you got to go to Friday. and then you're watching guys just getting up in droves, walking away. You're like, fuck him. Fuck him. I can just see him telling me, you're not going to make it. Fuck this. And then the guy would quit and I'd be like, see, I'm tougher than him.

1:54:44I would never, he put that.

1:54:51That's, we talked about it yesterday, like would I, would I have been a team guy? I don't know. You know, maybe I would have been a musician from day one and I would have explored that part of my life. I would have never had a longing or a hole to fill. and maybe it would have made me a better dad. But I wouldn't be, I wouldn't have had these moments that I've had because of the shit and all the failure and all the pain that takes you right to that, like, why me? And then a moment, like, your kid getting cast in that, and you're just like, oh, you know, Clay Planner at Pentagrass. I was talking to him.

1:55:44I got ID'd and we were hanging out and Clay, we were having great careers and then,

1:55:53Clay, one night we were sitting around and he goes, you would have died for me. And I said, yeah, of course. Overseas? Like, yeah. He goes, what would you do for your kid to have the opportunity that he has right now? to follow his dreams. I was like, I'd fucking go to hell to kill the devil with a fucking spoon for that. He goes, so was it that bad? Would you change it? I was like, no. It's like God put me right where he needed me to open that door and help him find that thing.

1:56:46I can't bring it on, man. Well, bud. Let's take a break.

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1:59:42All right, Pete, we're back from the break. Nice shooting, by the way. Yeah, well, that's the first time I've been on a gun in a while. How long has it been? I don't think I've shot in a year. Every year I have my, I'll take out my stuff to our, we have a little property. with some steel targets I set up and I have some paper targets and I do from the holster and I'll shoot one full load out I'm like because that's where I'm at yeah you know that's how I look at it like and and then I assess I'm like meh I'm good enough can I still get the job done Yeah, can I still? Yes. All right, we're good.

2:00:27Nice. Yeah, I like those lever actions now. I mean, I love all of them, but I'm really into the lever actions right now. Just because we never, it's like new to me. You know what I mean? Well, again, like I grew up shooting, you know, a.22 and a shotgun and a hunting rifle every once in a while. And so when I got in the teams, the pistol, I remember the first pistol I ever shot was a P226. And then you go to Shaw's and you get talking points just drilled into your head and decock, thumb holster, retain. And in that two weeks, that first trip to Shaw's, that first two weeks, you come away as a, you're like, I am a gunfighter now.

2:01:13It's like that, I think everybody goes through that. You're like, okay, can I, in the back of your mind, what am I going to do when it actually happens? but then you go to shah's and you're like all right i got this like i can i fuck yes let's go um you know like and so i i always stuck with the the sig and the i'm like i know it i've shot so many we've gone so many you know back to shah so many times that those two platforms are ingrained in my head and i'm like well if i really need it like if i really need it i want the one that i know I'm going to be able to manipulate in any frame of mind.

2:01:54Yeah. Same here. Those are my go-tos. But I like the other stuff. Oh, it's fun. I would love the lever action from a horse. Dude. I bet that would, I mean. I haven't done that yet. That's got to be. I've seen videos of that, and I'm like, you know, that Teddy Roosevelt. I mean, that guy's just, what a Teddy Roosevelt lever action. all right that guy was badass he did it from a horse i want to try it yeah well let's get back to you so we were we skirted around a little bit got got your childhood got a little bit of naval academy a little bit of buds but i want to talk about you know so i think where we left off was you told your old man you're going to you're going to buds yeah yeah i came home i dropped out of school and showed up dad was like no you're not you're not living here figure it out like you are a official fuck up dropped out of college you don't have a plan like what are you gonna do and time went done went to the recruiter got my first paperwork did my tests We hit that.

2:03:11We hit all of that. Yeah. And then shipped off to boot camp. And, you know, the first day of boot camp, you know that feeling when you get in there and you're like, I had like long hair. I'm like, cool. I like earrings. I'm like, right on. And then all of a sudden, I'm here to be in the Navy. I'm going to be a SEAL. And they're just tearing into you. I mean, this is January of 96. And your head's shaved. You got 28 vaccination shot in you. And then you're laying in that mattress. You're laying on that mattress that's covered in plastic, like alone in the dark. And you're like, what the fuck did I just do?

2:03:54And the boot camp goes. And I remember about halfway through boot camp, they're like, hey, you got to take the SEAL test. Whoever's in this program, SEAL test tomorrow morning, you have to leave here at 2 a.m. to get in line for the swim. And I remember showing up. well let me back up before i joined the navy and i was like i'm gonna be a seal there was one guy in my my hometown two guys in my hometown one guy was a guy named jake banta who was you know jake yes so i forgot to tell you about this so i'm on my i'm lifeguarding on my beach now at this time i'm a huge like i love stevie rayvon i got poster stevie rayvon all over my my room i'm huge into music i bought a an old squire strat saved up and i was like i love i love texas blues and like industry very long i'm lifeguarding on beach 10 and they're having a lot they're having a free concert and jake's blues is playing and i'm listening to this guy and i'm just like holy shit like this dude is just tearing it up and on my lifeguard break i go back there and i had heard that he was they're like oh yeah that guy used to be a seal and i'm like okay and he's playing a left-handed strat it was like i forget what year it was i think it's like late 60s strat and i look and he's got a tiny little trident on like pinned to the front of the strat and 69 on it and he is just tearing it up and i'm like whoa so he finishes up and i walk up to him and i'm like hey man are you a seal and he's like he just kind of looks at me he's like yeah, I was, but, and I'm like, I'm going to Bud's.

2:05:36And he goes, okay. I'm like, all right, whatever. So I met Jake on the beach and where I'm working. And another one of my friend's fathers was a SEAL. It was in Vietnam. It was an ABLE Academy grads and he was Dave Strong and two tours in Vietnam. And he ended up being the CEO of SEAL Team One. He was retired. He'd worked at a school teacher in town and both of his kids were in my school went to my was you know my high school and we had a small high school 130 kids per class and uh so I go called Mr. Strong I'm like hey I want to join the SEAL team so he has me over and sits me in the living room and he's just like tell me what you want to do and I said you know I want to go to Bud's tell me about Bud's and he's like he's like hey listen he's like you know there's three phases all that stuff he's like but that doesn't matter.

2:06:26He goes, there's a few things that do matter. He goes, what sports did you play? And I give him my list of sports and stuff. And he's like, yeah, I know about your swimming and I know about your pole vault. And he'd kind of follow me a little bit because of his kids. And he goes, when you go to Butts, your first day, look around and you're going to see all these guys that are just, you know, they look huge. They're strong. They're going to be, you know, all these athletes. He goes, I want you to pick all the guys that you think are going to graduate in your head. He goes, then on graduation day, because you're going to graduate, I want you to look around and make note of how many of those guys are still there.

2:07:03And he goes, none of them are going to be there. He goes, I promise you this, because it's not the guys you think are going to make it are going to make it. He goes, you have everything you need. Don't second guess yourself. And I was like, okay. And with that, I went off the butt. Those The only two exposures I had to real SEALs were Jake and Dave.

2:07:27So, you know, go through boot camp, go to BUDS. And I was in class 208, and we had this amazing officer corps in 208. Mike McGath, he was a Naval Academy grad, and he was SWO for a few years on a PC. So he was a full lieutenant when he came, which he just had a different presence. He was really big. He was actually from Franklin, Pennsylvania, which was like 30 minutes down the road from me. And he was state champ of the 100 freestyle. He was an amazing swimmer. He had hands like coal shovels. And he was just calm. He was just a calm guy. And I'm kind of looking around. And we've got Tom Donovan, Russ Giraldi.

2:08:00We've got Brian O 'Lavin. Just this stacked crew. And they're all Naval Academy graduates. And then we had one guy named Adam Smith, who was just this tall, really good-looking dude. And he was just calm as a cucumber. And day one, everyone starts shitting on Adam. and turns out that his dad was Admiral Smith at the time. So he was the two star. Well, you know, you get assigned a swim buddy and Scobella and Smith aren't too far apart. So I ended up being Adam's swim buddy. And Buds took on a whole new adventure for me because everywhere he would go, they'd be like, Smith, drop, take your little buddy with you.

2:08:40I was like, I got an extra. nobody knew who I was but I was you know Adam's little you know buddy and you know he'd get called he'd get pulled in front of the you know the the different phase offices you better not tell your daddy the shit goes around here you think you're gonna make it you know and I'm just like damn dude and Adam was he played football um played football for Coronado High School he's like the captain football team went to USD he and he's just this he was bigger than life and I looked around I looked around that class and we had some professional I think there was a guy who was like Olympic swimmer he quit like the first week or some other dude was an Ironman triathlon he quit like the first week and I looked at the guys that I'm like I'm gonna listen I'm I picked like Mike I picked Tom Donovan and I picked Adam and I'm like those guys are gonna make it I'm following them.

2:09:30And that's what I did. I kind of just tucked in and the water stuff was, I loved going to the water. Anything in the water, I was very happy with. No one was yelling at us. No one was beating Adam and I. Like I could, you need to tie me up, throw me in the pool. Like drum proofing is like, no one's yelling. Like, this is great. All I got to do is exhale. And in high school, I was, I could do like 100 yards underwater. 100 yards? Four laps underwater when I was my senior in high school. And so I was like mentally ready to do the water step, but I sucked on land. I could do the obstacle course, I could do water.

2:10:12I couldn't, the distance running, not so much. Sprinting's fine, but just the trudging and the soft sand, I just hated it. And they told me right away, they're like, listen, be good, but don't be great. Like you want to be, you want to pass and be, you want to be in the middle of the pack, maybe the upper pack. You don't want to stick out in anything. They're going to come find you. And once they signal you out, you know, singularly out, you're going to get, you get screwed over or you're going to get beaten. So I just kind of stayed in the middle of the pack until we did the 50 meter underwater swim.

2:10:44And so 208 was right around the time the movie, The Rock came out. Remember the Sean Connery and Nicolas Cage, The Rock. Well, the command master chief was in the movie, Buds was in the movie, and a couple of the instructors were in the movie, one being Instructor Haas, gigantic, ripped African-American guy. I mean, he was just like, and he had this real deep voice. And the movie wasn't out yet. And so we'd go on runs, and you'd hear Instructor Haas on the speaker. He'd go, I'm going to take pleasure in gutting you, boy. Like, what the fuck is that? Like, everywhere we go, we go to the 50-meter underwater swim, and I was like, all right, I got this.

2:11:23Like, the deeper you go, the easier it is to hold your breath. So everyone's freaking out. I hop in the pool, do my breathing exercise, get relaxed, hop in, you know, go down, do my flip, and I stay real close to the bottom, and I'm just cruising along the bottom, touch the other side, and I come back. All of a sudden, I feel this tap on my shoulder. I, like, look over, and it's Haas, and he's looking at me, and he's like, are you okay? And I'm like, yeah, fine. I really slowly get to the end, touch, and come up, and I'm like, all right, good, that's over with. He's like, what? Scobell! We got ourselves a fish!

2:11:58I'm like, I was like, oh, shit. So every time I went to the pool, it was like, hey, where's the fish at? We had this handful of guys that were great swimmers. Mike was a great swimmer. Tom Donovan was a, I think he was captain of the water polo team at Navy. He was just a beast. And there was a couple of us that were swimmers. And Nick Hawks, who Dave mentioned, we were the two young guys in the class. He was 17 and I was 18. I turned 19 that year. And so that whole adventure was like, you know, the other thing, music colors those times in my life. That's how I go back. And that summer Metallica load came out.

2:12:39And I had enough money. I was like an E2 showing up to Buds. And I had enough money. I went to the exchange on NAB and I bought an alarm clock that had a CD player in it. And I bought one album and it was Metallica Lode. And there was a song on there, Hero of the Day. And I had that as my wake up song. It's like, and every day I would hear the spinning up of the CD. It's like, and you're like, fuck. And then that song would start playing. And that was kind of punctuated at that time. And I was just like a sponge watching. And nothing was, you know, the evolutions are hard, but nothing is. It's just the amount, I think.

2:13:26You know, it's evolution to evolution to evolution. And we get to Hell Week, and, you know, everybody has their Hell Week story. and it was like Tuesday night or it was Wednesday night they were surf torturing us and the sun was setting and it was if you look in the paper the Coronado paper said big Wednesday biggest waves in 50 years like of course wake of summer hell week of course we're going to get this huge wave and we're getting surf tortured and instructor Schmeck I remember this the clearest day instructor Schmeck's like who's going to quit well you know Bob they do the whole bullshit he's gonna quit and I was served for those locked arms with Tom Donovan and Tom out of the blue goes whatever punk and there was this pause and then over the bullhorn was who the fuck was that Tom looks at me he goes that was a bad idea and he gets up he's like it was me it was me and Tom was my boat crew leader and I'm like oh no oh, they're going to start beating him.

2:14:35And if he quits, that's my guy. He's my bow crew leader. And they send us back out and we reorganize and we paddle out and they beat Tom mercilessly. I remember the trucks going down the beach and his feet up on the bumper is getting wet and sandy. And in my mind, I'm just praying. I was like, please, God, don't save him. Save him. And we come in, they put him on the, right before we do surf passage on Chiefs Beach, they put him on the, back on the boat. And Tom was like, all right. He's like, that guy is just born to be a leader. And he's like, all right, guys. And I'm like, you know, is he okay?

2:15:18We paddle out. And we see these waves roll in. And I'm just like, we start getting closer and closer and the sun's going down. And like these waves are like at like two boat lengths vertically. And I'm watching the back of the waves and we're like sitting out there and they're giving the signal to come in. And I'm just like, what the fuck is this? And Tom's like, ready, paddle. We start paddling. And I, one of my only like vivid memories of Hell Week was Tom, the boat picking up. And then I was number one man. I was on the, I was on the port side, number one man. And I watched Tom just go that way.

2:15:54And the whole boat just went. And it was like, it was just in every direction. And somehow I got my foot hooked under one of the cross members. And I just got drug all the way into shore, like with the boat. Like just gasping for no paddle. And I was just like, what the? And the instructor's like, yeah, one made it. Just standing there looking around. And it's like a sea of bodies. and that night you know you do the fire thing and you're telling the story make us laugh and that night every single person they sent to the surf they sent tom with and i'm like other they're trying to like they're trying to break him and they're like hey you know you tell a story we're down to probably 25 guys at this point every story fail go hit the surf take take tom with you and i'm just watching tom and he's just shivering and it's getting colder and colder and then they have us dig a hole and our boat crew loved him and we were like tom get in here throw him at the bottom of the hole and we're like all right everybody pee and uh you know hell week after that it was like tom was just this resolute guy and i saw it in his eyes like he's in quitting i'm like i'm not quitting and you know made it made it through hell week and and made it through second phase and third phase i mean everybody's got a thousand bud stories but the bud stories that i always took away were the people that affected me personally like that made me like the dave butleys of the world the the the jake bantas the dave strongs the tom donovan the adam Smith like what I saw in them that I wanted to try to emulate myself and and Mike McGath and you know we got to the end of Buds and um like I knew Mike and Tom had gone to the Naval Academy and um I was like I think I want to go to the Naval Academy whatever those guys did like I want to I want to do that and in the back of my mind I was like my dad always said well you can join the team, but get a degree at some point.

2:18:09And I was like, I remember my high school GPA, and I was like, it's probably not going to work out so good.

2:18:18Graduate, we go to jump school. Jump school is pretty uneventful, except for hawks hanging a banner off the big tower, and all the SEALs always getting in trouble. Checking a SEAL teammate, and I got thrown in training while we were waiting for, back then, STT. And the training at SEAL Team 8 at the time was just a bunch of guys who went on to be legends, and one of which was Jeff Tobos Turbo. And, you know, when you're a new guy in training, you don't have your trident yet, and, you know, you just do everything. And I remember getting there like, well, actually, what happened was I checked into 18 Delta, and they said, you're going to be here a year before you class up.

2:19:07And I was like, a year? I'm like, you're 19 years old. Like, I don't have a year to waste. So I literally got on the horn, and I called the quarterdeck at SEAL Team 8. I dug up the number, and I was like, is there a command career counselor there? And Rich Black gets on the phone. He's like, who are you? And I'm like, I'm Seaman Scobell. I'm at 18 Delta. I've got a year. Is there any way I can get orders to SEAL Team 8? and he's like makes a few phone calls and all of a sudden the the set of TAD orders comes in from uh through the 18 delta and the CO that was a rep there was like I have TAD orders for you to seal team eight a bunch of guys Gary Ellis being one I was my one of my class had gone to team eight and I and so had Mike McGath and so you know kind of politicked a little bit and they got me orders And I checked in and I started doing team guy stuff, you know, like, hey, we're going to, we're jumping tomorrow.

2:20:03And I got all five jumps in a day and I got my gold wings and, and, you know, we're going to go do VBSS at the time. And, you know, hey, let's got to set up some kit, got thrown in a stack. And you're like, this is, this is cool. Like, I want to, I want to, I want to do this. I don't want to go to that 18 Delta course for a year. and um and so rich black's like hey listen if you just go up and get go to quarter master school um you can get your rate and you can just stay here you don't have to go to 18 delta and i was like all right they sent me up to quarter master school and i was like well in the back of my mind i was like if i apply to the naval academy i gotta like do well in one of these schools so i went into quartermaster school thinking which is being a navigator and uh and i ended up finishing first in the class and being the honored grad or whatever from qm school and i came back from that and i just i i looked at all the the programs that were available and there was the rotc seaman admiral and um and the naval academy and i was like like and there was an age limit on it and And so I talked to Rich Black and I'm like, I want to apply to the academy.

2:21:15And I'm like, I just graduated BUDS. It was first in my class in A school. Pole vault state champion. Good athlete. And he's like, dude, that doesn't, we don't send SEALs to the Naval Academy. Like it just doesn't go that way. Well, I'm like, what would I have to do? And he's like, you're going to have to get some letters of recommendation. You're going to have to go up there and visit. There's like a whole process. So I called Adam Smith, who was my swim buddy in Buds, and I was like, hey, man, I'm going to apply to the Naval Academy. Do you think your dad would write me a letter? And he's like, I don't know.

2:21:55Let me call my dad, but I'll be happy to ask for you. And 10 minutes later, my phone rings, and I'm sitting at home, and it's Admiral Smith. Hello, is this Peach Gobella? And I'm like, is this Admiral Smith? And I'm like, what? Damn. He's like, Adam called me. He said, you won't apply to the Naval Academy. He said something about you being track and field. I said, yes, sir. I was a state champion in the pole vault. He said, ha, I just jumped. I said, I jumped 15-1. He's like, you know, when I was at the Naval Academy, I was captain of the track team. I said, I thought to myself, I'm like, this could be good for me.

2:22:31He goes, and my coach is still the coach there, Al Cantelo. What are your grades in high school? And I was like, well, I get like a 2.3. And I didn't take the SAT. Well, I did, but I only showed up like halfway through. And, you know, he's just like, hmm. He hangs up the phone. He calls me back. He waits. Like a day goes by. He calls me back. He goes, drive up to the Naval Academy. You're going to meet with Al Cantelo. I drive up to the Naval Academy. And Al Cantelo is this legendary Navy track coach. He was an Olympian. He's from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. He was an Olympian javelin thrower.

2:23:12And at the time, he was coaching both cross-country and distance at Navy. And we used to have cantalisms. He just had these one-liners that would fly out. And he was just to the point. So I drive up to the Naval Academy and knock on the door. And he's just like, come on in. Sit down. He's like, I talked to Ray. So I'm like, that must be the admiral's first name because it's admiral to me. I was like, I talked to Ray. And he said, you're a 15-foot pole vaulter. Tell me more about your pole vaulting. So I told him my background. He was like, you can jump to Vision One. He goes, now tell me about your grades.

2:23:51And I was like, well. And I got my transcripts at the time. I went back to my high school. And my guidance counselors, I was like, hey, can I get my transcripts? They're like, why? I'm like, because I'm applying to the Naval Academy. They're like, shoot. You're never going to go to the Naval Academy. And I was like, well. Show it to him. He's like, oh, my God. Well, fill out the paperwork. We'll see what we can do.

2:24:15And I go back to the team. I'm like, eh, whatever. At least I tried. You know what I mean? But I remember walking on the yard and being, like, overwhelmed with the architecture. I remember the first time I walked there, and I was like, I want to be part of this. I'm like, that's what made Tom and Mike who they were. like there's something about this place that makes you want to be better than who you are and i just felt this like calling to the academy and no shit yeah you had your trident and i already had my trident i had just gotten my trident and uh and i was in and so i went back and i'm in the platoon and we're doing bbss and i'm actually in the out platoon with another one of your guys and And I come back from BBSS one day, and the admin officer, who's the senior chief, she's like, meets me at the quarter deck.

2:25:11And she's like, you've been accepted to the Naval Academy. And I was like, what? And immediately, she goes, well, you got to go to the Naval Academy prep school first. And I was like, oh, what's that? And they're like, well, that's kind of like the, that's for the guys that they, they're usually a bunch of athletes that they redshirt or prior enlisted. And in your case, we're going to see if you can actually hack it academically at the academy. So you go up there and you do 10 months and it's an academic course. And I immediately got the sinking feeling. I'm like, oh, shit. I'm like, I'm not smart enough to go there.

2:25:52Like, I'm going to fail. Like, I hate school. What I didn't know at the time was I'm kind of dyslexic, dysgraphic. I mean, I have a tough time reading. And I'm like, oh, no. And I just dealt with it through high school, but it was, you know, I was a good listener. And she's like, yeah, get ready, pack your bags. And I call Adam. I'm like, dude, I got into the naps. And he immediately calls his dad, and his dad calls me. And about a couple days later, actually, we scheduled the call. and at this point I was like, I'm not going. I'm like, I don't want to go to the academy and fail and then try to come back to teams.

2:26:33Like the teams are going to eat me alive. I'm not, I can't do this. And so Admiral Smith calls me, he goes, congratulations. Got into the Naval Academy. He's like, we're going to prep school, which is fine. He's like, just get up there and knock it out and you'll be a plebe in the class of 2003. He goes, are you excited? And I go, Admiral, I don't know if I want to go. and it was just a pause on the phone. I got, I really love being a SEAL. Worked really hard to get here. I'm in a platoon, jumping on airplanes. I got my own car. I got an apartment. Like I got a life. And the idea of going back to, you know, shaving your head and pulling your socks up and somebody yelling at me again.

2:27:12And long pause on the phone, Admiral Smith said to me, the greatest piece of advice I've ever been given in my life. He goes, Pete, when you're forced with a hard decision, always choose the hardest path it's always the right one every time call me tomorrow with your decision and i hung up the phone i was like fuck oh no this is gonna suck great response yeah called him the next day i said sir i'm gonna do it and a couple weeks later check out and head up to Newport, Rhode Island for another round of boot camp. And that's where I met Jeremy. And I show up and all the prior enlisted guys are kind of looking at each other.

2:27:55You know, you're looking at each other's chest and a couple of Marines wandering around. Everybody's doing the butt sniffing thing. And this circus began immediately for me. I get your little issue. I go to my room and I'm like, he gave me a robe. I was like, oh, cool, man. I got a robe. I'm like I'm on my way to be an officer they gave me a robe so I put on my robe and I'm like going so I get my shower shoes I'm like this is awesome like a shower shoes I got a robe I put my toothbrush in my mouth and I'm just cruising down the cruising down the hallway and I didn't know what midshipmen were and I looked I there were some midshipmen there from the academy that come in and they do summer detail and they have their collar devices and and when you come from the fleet the midshipman collar devices they don't mean anything to you you know and uh this they start kind of like what are you doing and i'm like what let's just chill out man i'm just going to the bathroom brush my teeth they're like you don't talk to me that way and i'm like whoa my everybody needs to take a wrap off here i turn around and this gunnery sergeant hat like hits me in the bridge of my nose and this gunnery sergeant he just starts tearing at me tearing into me like like marine corps boot camp and i was like i remember i put my hand up and i I just pushed his hat back, and I was like, everybody needs to calm down right now.

2:29:12I'm just trying to brush my teeth here. That's exactly it. I'm like, I'm just here to brush my teeth right now. Like, get in this office. They dragged me in the office, and it's the Marine captain. And they knew exactly who I was. And they were like, okay, here's the deal. They put the paper in front of me. They're like, sign this, and you can go back to the fleet. And I was like, I just got here. They're like, we don't want you here. We don't want the trouble. we know you're going to be an issue and i was like okay well i didn't know we were starting this stuff i was like i'm like i'm really i'm like i'm take a second i didn't know that we were doing this so can you give me a little reading as to what's happening and they were like well this is boot camp and you're back into boot camp and i was like okay well that would have been like good to know before this this whole thing like unfolded i didn't know we were playing boot camp here yeah well exactly it i was like i didn't know we were doing this game but now that you told me I'm like, now I'm here.

2:30:07So you don't need that. I'm not going to quit. And I went back. And then I just put it in my pocket. Fine. I won't brush my teeth. Jeez. I guess we don't brush our teeth. We don't wash our hair. Everyone starts to show up. And all the priors go through this adjustment period. And it's all the redshirt athletes from the football team. And they had a track team. And so now, mind you, when I was in high school, I was 160 pounds pole vaulting, 5 '11". I went to Bud's as 160 pounds. I graduated about 180 pounds. And then I really started to lift at Team 8, and I got to be about 205. So I show up at NAPS at 205, and I'm there to walk onto a Division I track team and pole vault again.

2:30:55Pole vault is a math equation. It's how fast you can run, like how far you can long jump, and essentially the lighter you are, the higher you can go. So I'm like, I got to recalibrate my entire mindset now, and I got to start losing weight. And that's what I did. I started running like 15 miles a day and not eating, and I was like shedding pounds. I just became like the shell of myself. Did you know that you were the third ever? Were you the third? Yes, I was the third one. There were two before me. Jim Galladay, who was a 1995 grad, he was on Petit Airfield when all those seals got shot up and got the Bronze Star.

2:31:42And so he showed up as a plebe with a Bronze Star and a combat action ribbon. This is 1998 at the time. And the stories of Jim just saturated. It was this legendary—he was a legend. He was mystical. and there was the second guy was jim foreman um and jim was stv one super cool dude um surfer blonde guy he played lacrosse at the academy and i actually met him um when i went up to visit and he was still he was getting ready to graduate and i was like what would you do it all over again he's like fuck no i'm like that wasn't exactly that's encouraging that wasn't what i was looking for man so and i knew i was you know i'm number three but i hadn't been in comp they knew there was no combat you know there was and that was part of the reason why i went i was like well i'll go to school like what you know what can it hurt like take advantage of everything that the navy throws at you was what i was always told if you get the opportunity to go to school go to a school if you get the opportunity to better yourself go go do it father frank mulcahy told me that um it was a head of training at at um at seal team eight when i was going through this whether or not i should go and he's like hey heard you got in the academy i'm like i don't i don't know if i'm going he's like nope you're going you anytime the navy offers you an opportunity to better yourself you go and don't fuck it up it's just like everyone's like don't quit.

2:33:18So yeah. Don't embarrass us. Yes. This is what it really was. We don't really care about you. We care that you don't embarrass us. And you know, plea beer, you know, that bootcamp, that first year, it was academically unbelievably difficult because it was, they basically take your plea beer and they academically, and they shove it into 10 months. So you get a head start for your plea beer, right? So you're taking chemistry, you're taking calculus, you're taking

2:33:52like a, I want to say English class, but it was a pretty heavy English class. And chemistry is always an issue at the academy and calculus is an issue. And I was scared shitless of all of this, you know, I mean, like my academics, I was always stayed away from academics in high school because I'm like, I had a tough time reading. And now I'm in this, this is all you're here to do. This is buds for academics. And oh, by the way, you're wearing this, you know, target on your chest. You wear the SEAL trident in the academy? Yes. What is that like? So I used to take it off and put it in my pocket.

2:34:33I'd go in the bathroom and I'd take it off. Are you serious? Why? Because it was like a different world. I would take it off and just blend in. I'm like, this is doable. And then the minute someone would see me, they'd be like, hey, you're out of uniform. And I'm like, huh. I go back and put my uniform. And, you know, at the academy, you'd be chopping down the hall. And they'd be like, seal. I'm like, oh, here we go. And, you know, some kid who got his lunch money stolen, who's a, you know, academic whiz kid. He's like, you think you're a badass? You think you're a tough guy? Like, sir, no, sir.

2:35:07You play the game. and then they'd hold me up and I'd be late for class. And then you're getting in trouble for being tardy, and then you're getting extra tours. And any time I would go to do anything, everyone's measuring themselves against me. And so it was like being a celebrity at the academy. There's only 16 billets a year, and everybody wants to be a SEAL, and everybody talks about being a SEAL. And here I am wearing this Budweiser, and they're all like, you know, is this guy that guy? And they all want to find out. Meanwhile, I'm like, dude, I'm in chemistry class and like, this is not easy.

2:35:50Like you can have all of this, this misery, but I need to focus on studying. And, you know, NAPS was amazing. I played rugby at NAPS. I got my first taste of rugby. I've got my first taste of, I jumped again. I started losing weight. And, but I was focused. I was like, I really want, I really want a pole vault. Like I really want, I want to see how high I can go. It was in the back of my head. I want to see if I can do this. Like I just have to try this. And, you know, and then you go to plebe summer, which is another six weeks of bootcamp. So at this point, you know, I've been through, I'd been through regular bootcamp and then I went through buds.

2:36:28Then I went through bootcamp at naps for four weeks or whatever it is and then a year at naps where you're basically treated like loosely treated like a plebe and then plebe summer where you're back to being like literally shark shit lower than shark shit in the ocean you're like back to zero again and boot camping it all over and mentally you're just like and now it's not drill instructors yelling at you now it's 19 year old upperclassmen right and they're getting in your face and you're just like And meanwhile, in your head, you know, you're just like, what am I doing? Why? This is like the worst thing.

2:37:09Like, I went to a place where I suck at everything, right? Everybody's competing with me. And now people are yelling at me. And I want to beat everybody up. Like, I literally am like, I want to beat everybody up every day. And during plebe summer, and that's when you start to find your crew. Did you just have Jeremy beat him up? So Jeremy ends up in my company. We go from NAP, so we end up in the same company. And so he's prior enlisted Marine. And boot camp comes around, and we're playing the game. Played somewhere, we're playing the game. And it's easy. It's not hard. You're just folding your socks and folding your uniform.

2:37:51It's the same shit. You're memorizing stuff. and um but both jeremy and i were just kind of over playing the game and so a lot of the prep they were like oh are you a napster oh you're a prior you kind of get like earmarked oh you're gonna be you know trouble and we all have fun because we're we just end up fucking around with the upper class you know just like and we're having fun on our own and uh that's when we met Brett. And I've been hesitating to tell this story because it's hilarious, but it's kind of disgusting. But it's hilarious. And okay, so one morning, and Brett ended up in our room and our roommate and a big part of our life.

2:38:34I mean, he was like a huge part of my life. They wake you up in the morning and you chop. So every time you go somewhere, you have to go, go Navy and make a right-hand corner. So you run out of your room, you run to the center of the hallway and you go, go Navy. And then you turn right. And then you say, beat army. And you run down to the next corner and you go, go Navy, beat army. And you have to square all your corners everywhere you go. And it's, you know, you've got your socks pulled up, you're wearing your like grandpa new balance shoes and your head shaved. And you're just like, dude, I'm back.

2:39:05So I might roll out of bed and I'm like last to formation. I'm like, go Navy, beat army. I get in and they start screaming yelling at me, Scobell, like, what do you think? You think, because you're a SEAL, you can do whatever you want. I'm like, sir, no, sir. And you brace up and put your shin back. And they just, you know, it was great for the other people in my class because they were like, he's going to take all the shit anyway. And at that point it was like, I'm getting all the shit anyway, so you're not helping me. So I come in the room, I come into the hallway and this upper class, this female upper class who was um rather pretty she i come in she starts yelling at me and she's like you know what are you you're late blah blah blah blah blah and i all of a sudden i hear this go navy i'm like fuck yeah dude someone's later than me like he's gonna get this shit and he came brett came around the corner and now in the mornings you wear uh you wear you have these mesh shorts that are like down to your knees and you have your you have your shirt tucked in a blue rim shirt and your socks pulled up and and brett turned the corner and i kind of looked at the corner of my eyes because everyone all eyes i'm like looking at this who is who's late because he's taking the shit off of me this is gonna be great brett comes around the corner and the first thing i see is his member and it is massive and he has morning wood and he comes around the corner and I'm like, oh.

2:40:39He's high-kneeing. He's like, oh, Navy. And the thing is bouncing.

2:40:47He turns in and he stares across from me like you are. And he whips around and he braces up and he looks at me and he has this infectious smile. And I look down and I'm like, oh my God, dude. And the pretty detailer, she looks at me. She's like, why are you smiling, Mr. Scobell? why are you smiling what's so funny and I'm just like she goes you think I'm cute is that why you're smiling and in the back of my head I was kind of like well yeah and she turns around and she goes Harmon oh my god and very calmly he has this gigantic smile on his face he goes go Navy

2:41:30and i'm like that guy is a legend and halfway through that day i mean i was laughing all day about this story and halfway through that day they pull me aside they're like mr um we're gonna put you and mr harm together um you know he needs to mature a little bit more and he needs to grow up and we think that with your experience as a prior enlisted seal you can you can help him raise his standards and I was just like who's helping who here like this guy so they put me with Brett and the plebe summer ends and you know we it was always a joke um you know his nickname was tripod um he was just like he was on the wrestling team and we would go to he was on the wrestling team and we would go to the matches and sit next to the thing because he would tuck that thing into a singlet like you go out there and the guys would shake hands you know before they matched and they were like what the unfair advantage every four in life uh and he was unapologetic about it and so plebe here i get set up with brett and jeremy's in the room next to me and these guys got to see what it was like for me during that year i couldn't study people come to my room you didn't know who was coming in some guy wants to fuck with you some guy who wants to ask you about BUDS, you know, and you're just like, hey, I'm not, I've got, you get to realize, like, most people understand, like, at the academy, it doesn't matter what you major in, you're taking, you're going to take three semesters of calculus, two of chemistry, three of calculus-based physics, you're going to take electrical engineering, thermodynamics, weapon systems engineering one and two, which is applied physics, you're going to take naval architecture, and then, oh, by the way, what's your major, and then you get your majors on top of that.

2:43:17And then you have leadership courses. And so this is like, this is a full load. You're taking, you know, 20 credits a semester on top of professional knowledge as a plebe. And then every day you have to memorize the menus for all three meals. You have to know how many days for to the next army, navy event. You have to know just this massive amount of information. And so you're just constantly studying and there's just all this crap you have to do. and it that's at max capacity already and then you add the layer of being a team guy and everywhere you go you wear this big gold and you know people were like oh it must have been fun like no it wasn't because it was like a it was like a bullseye on your chest everyone was everyone wanted to see what you couldn't go anywhere without people staring at you like i'd walk you'd walk into bancroft hall and people be in the rotunda and like they would stop the tour and be like this is our seals like shit like that like you couldn't get away with anything and everywhere you went people were you know constantly and i was always late for class because people would stop me i was doing tours um and they were always commenting like you you got a bad attitude what do you mean do it doing tours what does so you get enough demerits or you do something stupid, they assign you a tour.

2:44:37So if you get up early, like four in the morning, and you take your rifle and you go down to the, wherever, whatever, there's a courtyard, that's a big square courtyard, depending on the hall you're in or what wing of Bancroft you're in, and you walk around in circles as punishment. And they'll assign you 10 tours. That's 10 mornings you got to get up at 4 a.m. and just go walk around with your rifle. And, you know, demerits. And it's just like everything you do is watched and graded. Every physical PT test, every academic. Plebeer is two full plates of food. And then throw on top of it being this team guy.

2:45:22And I'm carrying around all of the – so every team guy that goes there, the legends begin. You know, what Jim did and then what, you know, Jim Galladay did, you know, and then what Fortman did and then what Fortman did and then what I did, you know, what I'm building. So there were these crazy stories. And since then, what's funny is I'll run into a midshipman now and I'll be like, hey, was there a seal that went there? And they'd be like, oh, yeah, it's Plea Beer. He killed his detailer. I just get blown out of proportion, you know. It's just like this. But what happened is, you know, Jeremy and Brett, they saw what was going on.

2:46:04And Johnny, our other roommate, they saw what was going on. And the rugby players and those guys would run point for me and the prior enlisted Marines. And, you know, I would be getting raided on my way to meal by some other upperclassmen. and Ryan Curry and Mark Pavandra, these two-part enlisted Marines, would just slide in between me and the upperclassmen, and they'd be like, leave. And I'd just bolt out of there and like, who are you guys? And they would take the heat, and they'd run point for me. Because they saw, they're like, hey, man, this is already hard enough. It's not fair. But whatever, I signed up for it.

2:46:45And meanwhile, I'm trying to walk on a Division I track team. that in itself. And I got back into jumping. I lost, I went down to 170 pounds. I went from 205, 208 or whatever, back down to 170 pounds. So now everyone's like, they're looking at me and my uniform's like hanging off me. And I got like, I'm like skinny little seal. I can try dangling, getting yelled at all the time, like just getting my ass handed to me on a daily basis. but I started jumping well. First semester, I did okay academically. And then beginning of second semester was February and we had a four-star lecture. So every Wednesday night, someone will come in and give a lecture.

2:47:35And that night it was Ross Perot. And Ross Perot was an ABLE Academy grad and he came to give a speech. And so Wednesday nights, you get in your full dress blue uniform. So you go to school, you go to class all day, you go to sports, you go to track practice all day, you come back, get dressed, then go to meal, then go to a couple-hour forestall lecture, and then study for the next day. And I go to the forestall lecture, hear Ross Perot speak, head back to the hall. I stopped by my friend's room, and my friend's mother had emailed her. and this title of the email was, go find Pete, his dad just died.

2:48:21And I walked in and I looked over her shoulder and I saw that she just looked at me and I walked out and you're supposed to chop and run. And I just walked. I just walked. Upperclassmen are yelling at me and I'm just like, I just had this, I was like the, people don't unless you've lost a parent you don't know it's like the day after the day the feeling that the world is never the same without that person in it again good bad or ugly like i walked back to my room that night and the upper class were like yelling at me in the hall because i wasn't chopping i was just i was like fuck you literally and they go tell the company officer you know by my bad behavior and i walk in and brett was there and i just collapsed into his arms and he's like what my dad's dead and upper class come to the door scobell get out of here brett just fucking slammed the door he's like fucking leave locked it and brett and i just sat on the cat I'm sat on my bed and I I just I was like the world came undone for me and um it turns out that he had died right after I'd gone to track practice I told you before I got an A on a calculus test and I I went on my way between a track or between class and track practice I stopped at the pay phone and called my dad and that was the the moment I said hey I got an A on a calculus test and he was like he starts laughing that was the class he had dropped in college and I wanted it was like me saying like I got this and he just you know I love you It was the first time.

2:50:24Only time. I didn't know what to do with it at the moment. I hung up the phone. I was like, wow. That happened. And I didn't know it, but he had just, he literally hung up the phone. He had a couch. The phone was next to the couch. He used to read on the couch, everything. He just looked like it was nobody's business. laid down and take a nap and his heart gave out. He died on the couch. His girlfriend came in and found him. They called the academy and they knew before, like while I was at track, that this had happened. But your attendance at meal and at forestall lectures accounts for a point system for your company at the academy.

2:51:10And we were up for color company. And that's a great fit rep for your company officer.

2:51:18and they waited the the word had gone out and they waited till i had gone to all of that and the the chaplain i had already found out i found out via email and i was sitting in my room and the chaplain shows him in the room and he's like come to the company officer's office and i walk in and um like your father dad passed away i'm like yeah i found out on email they're like well, we're gonna send you home. And immediately the company officer's like, you gotta watch your attitude. And I was like,

2:51:55next day I got up, that was a Wednesday. Thursday morning I got up, I flew home. My friend's parents picked me up, took me to the airport. I flew home, got there, immediately went to the funeral home. um he wanted to be cremated picked an urn came home my dad's girlfriend was like here's the um the will i get everything um you can have whatever pictures you want and i was like whatever i went to a lawyer that afternoon i pointed to the executive state and i i was like listen i couldn't get everything done there was i actually had to sign some more paperwork i forget what it was i but i had to be there uh i had to be there there was monday was a day off and i had to be there on tuesday i'm like i have to be here on tuesday to sign paperwork so i called the company officer and i said hey sir i need an extra day i gotta i gotta clean this mess up it's just me there's no one else and uh he's like you know pete you're not focusing on being a midshipman right now i was like what like come on like enough with the games like this is this is i gotta deal with this so i called the seals in the yard and um the seal chiefs in the yard were like what the fuck and i get a call back from the company officer and he's like all right you're extended until tuesday so you have to be here wednesday morning and i'm six hours away I sign everything, hop in the car, drive six hours back to the academy.

2:53:36And I wasn't supposed to have a car, but it was my dad's car. And so I'd pull in and park it at Jim Galladay was a SEAL. He was actually living in Annapolis at the time, and he'd come. If I needed stuff, he would help me out. And I'm like, hey, I got this car. I parked it at his house and got back to the academy. And first thing, went into the company officer's office and he's just like, why don't you just go back to the teams? Just go back. And I was like, excuse me? Like, he's like, your behavior, you're not focusing on being a midshipman. Just go. And I was, I'm like, and I remember looking at him.

2:54:18In my mind, like, he, in that moment, he, I saw my dad's face and I was just like, fuck this guy. I'm like, you know what? I'm going to make it. I'm going to make it. I was like, no, I'm not leaving.

2:54:35And put me on the upper class because of my bad attitude, put me on all calls, which was me. I had to be outside their door at five in the morning because I didn't memorize my rates. The one upper class stopped me in the yard. He goes, what's the menu for morning meal? And I was like, dude, I just literally walked in the door. I just buried my dad. He's like, doesn't excuse you from your duty. i was like dude fuck you guys and i looked around i'm like what kind of leadership laboratory is this like this this is just unbelievable

2:55:10so i went back just like nothing happened i was like put that away damn dad's gone you know Everything's gone.

2:55:24A couple of weeks later, we were a track mate and the freshman record was 16-3.

2:55:38It was, the weather was perfect. It was like, the sun was out. It was March. my dad died in february it was the end of march and home meet and i don't remember who we were jumping against uh it's interesting about pole vault that it's all about you competing against yourself and that day i just had an amazing day i broke the freshman record i jumped 16-3 and i swear to god on that jump i felt like something pulled my hips up so I had my eyes where I got and I and for me it was just like I had that moment and I'm like okay like

2:56:28I continued to run track and the plea beer ended at the end of that year the woman my dad was dating at the time she sold everything had a sale the house was gone But my friend's parents had welcomed me into their family and, you know, life goes on. And I just kind of put that part of it, and that's just what it is. Your parents die, you know.

2:57:00But yeah, my junior year or my sophomore year, I ran track again. I was jumping well, I jumped mid-16. In the beginning of junior year, 9-11 happened. And Johnny, Jeremy, Brett, and I, I walked out of one class into the heart room upstairs. I got a cup of coffee and they had those gigantic. TVs remember the big screen TVs that are like four feet deep it was not now we have the thin screen and I saw everyone's crowded around it like what happened like uh a Cessna crashed into the World Trade Center and I was like dude that you ever been to New York City like that's not a Cessna and I said that's a terrorist attack I just knew it I was actually in a political science class I walked out of political science class and in between I was going to a philosophy class called friendship and death just then the second plane hit the tower the second tower and i we all scurried off the class i went into friendship and death and the teacher's like all right let's talk about last night's and i'm like no turn the tv on like this is happening right now turn the tv on and everyone was just holy shit like we watched the towers fall and then the announcement came everyone go back to Bancroft Hall.

2:58:26And so all 4 ,000 midshipmen are back in Bancroft Hall, which I was like, and then you're hearing the planes crashing into the Pentagon. And I'm like, well, I'm not sure it's the smartest thing in the world to put all 4 ,000 midshipmen in one building right now. And we get back there and a lot of the guys from my class who would always come in brett brett was a legend he would he would cut everybody's hair and so you know guys from every team and would you know come in and he'd have this hair cutting we'd all talk and bs travis manion um brian stan who's a ufc fighter brian came over that night and he's like what do you think dude i'm like we're going to war like this is this is war and we just had this moment of like holy shit we were juniors and all my buddies from naps ryan pabandra we're all kind of like looking at each other like this is the game just changed like the game and we're settling in on that and i was like i need to be part of a team and i quit the track team and i won't walk down the rugby team like i need to be around i need to get ready for war and that was like that was my my way of shifting gears like enough of this my dad's gone i broke the record now it's time to get ready for war and so i walked on the rugby team and uh my last years i played rugby started a side um played ncaa's a couple times and um

3:00:08yeah it was i that's one of my most vivid memories was like it's fucking on and but you know rugby team is right my my you have to take double electrical engineering and electrical engineering is like the class that everyone everyone struggles through and there was a cheating scandal back in the 80s about the electrical engineering test and and i had these two amazing coaches in the rugby team uh major renforth and major shea uh sparky renforth he's a three star and Major Shea who's a recon marine and my first double E test I got like a 5 % not like a 15 % like you got 5 % and Major Shea taught double E and I go to rugby practice and Major Shea's like hey dude I saw your test like what's going on I'm like he's like who's your teacher and I told him my teacher was he's like yeah sleep through his class you got a free period afterwards come to my room come to my office i'll teach you double e and man major shay he just was it god said i walked in there and he would the teacher that i had would spend two hours or an hour talking about electrical engineering i'd walk in there and major shay'd be like teach me what i need to be to learn in five minutes and i was like and i ended up getting great grades and double e after that too like right before the final i I remember Jeremy and Brett and Johnny came out, and I'm like giving extra instruction to other mids, and they were like, is he?

3:01:50He's teaching me? But I had applied to come back to the teams. So it wasn't a foregone conclusion.

3:02:03And at that time, I started, you know, post my dad dying, started picking up my guitar again, and bought myself a nice little Martin guitar, play in the room. And it was my way of just calming it, making it going away. And I had kind of a communion with my mom. I was like, I like that part of my life. I want to go back to harnessing that and get the noise of the academy out. And I started playing in the bars. I'd go out and sneak out and put civilian clothes on. I'd get up there and sing in the bars and play. It was so asinine that when other officers on the yard would see me, they're like, he's got to have permission.

3:02:50Meanwhile, I'd be like, you know, throwing my guitar in the back of my car, sneak back on the yard. And so, you know, the years went by and I had a selection again. One of the summers I went, they actually, the SEAL rep at the time said, you got to go to Mini Buds. And I'm like, for what? Thank you. Well, you got to, you know, just because you went through buzz before doesn't mean you're going to, you're going to go back to the community. And everyone was like, wait, you know, Fortman and Galladay went back. He's already got his Budweiser. Why would you? And at the time that officer was a, he was a team guy and he was on the rugby coach as well.

3:03:36And I was butting heads with him. I was just like, come on. he's like hey listen there's 16 billets and he called me in his office he's like there's 16 billets these guys have worked really hard just go out and go to SWO put SWO as your second choice go out to a ship get your pin then you go back to teams and we get an extra billet and I was like no that's bullshit I went to NAPS I'm here for four years I'm like the war is on like this is this is asinine to me and I go to rugby practice one day and Major Shea is like Pete come here major shane major renforth and one of the summers i did a marine training and i won a leadership award um when i was there and you have to go to like leatherneck and i hadn't gone to the formal leatherneck i'd just gone to like the marine fam and major shay goes hey we found out that they're they're trying to boot you and i'm like yeah they're like you want to be a marine and i'm like but i didn't go through any of the stuff and they're like doesn't matter we'll take you and i looked at major ranforth major shea and i was just like they're like put it as your number two choice and that's like the kiss of death academy you put your number one choice suspect war you put your number two choice it has to be swell because then you can let transfer that shows you're committed to the community and so when i had to fill out my preferences i put down nsw then i put down marine ground and i put down marine air and i put down every other service selection except for Swole.

3:05:05And I put that at the bottom as my like, kind of, fuck you. And I went into my, right before I went into my interview, I had to go into an interview for NSW, it's all the NSW officers. Major Shade, Major Renforth knew when my interview was and I was standing outside the door and they walked up to us. They're like, hey, we want you so if they don't want you we'll take you and i was like these are two of the best leaders i've ever come across in my life i mean they were just absolute champions and i'm like i want to be like those guys like that's that's leadership and i looked around the yard and the marines the guys i looked up to the most and i was like you know what whatever i went into my interview and um they i was not very good in spanish and there's a slide behind you with your grades and uh the captain uh who he goes and they're all looking at me i got a budweiser and jump wings and they're just like looking at each other like wait a minute what why is why is he in here and the the officer at the time briefs your record and he started briefing my record and not very kindly about my attitude, my behavior.

3:06:25And the captain who ended up being an admiral after that, he goes, well, I'm not going to ask you any questions in Spanish, given your grades. He goes, but you put marine ground as your number two choice. You want to explain that? And I said, sir, I'm 26 years old. I want to lead men in combat. And if I'm not ready to lead men in combat by now i'll never be ready by spending 18 months out on ship and he goes whoa whoa it's fine you're coming back to teams it's a done deal and but that was it was stressful so you get to your senior year and you know like the guys that you think got your back they you know man that's crazy to me what's that a ego problem are they just fucking with you um why would they do that it's fresh after 9-11.

3:07:18Fresh after 9-11. You're a SEAL. Yep. Fresh officer. Yep. And they want to send you to a boat? Yeah. A lot of times when you get an officer program, a lot of this, they'll compete for officer programs, enlisted SEALs, and they'll take a SWO billet just to get a commission and then lat transfer back in if there aren't enough billets. So it's not an uncommon thing. Some guys come in OCS, they want to be SEALs, but there's not an NSW billet, so they'll go. uh they'll go get their SWO pin and then lat transfer in it's easiest way to get in the community so we have a lot of SWOs SWO officers that turn into SEAL officers and I think at the time you know the the thinking of that particular guy was I can get another billet uh I can get another SEAL in um and you know he'll just get a SWO pin and he'll come back to the community anyway so it's a win for the community and yeah if the guy even makes it

3:08:17yeah it's like an 85 dropout rate at buds i know well the naval academy has like a 95 graduation rate well i've seen a lot of naval academy grads go through that never should have fucking made it i've i've seen them quit yep and then the instructors ask them are you sure you want to quit and miraculously they're better the next day yeah which is a fucking shame it is it

3:08:51all that said all that headache it was still the most amazing experience of my life the education i got there i they taught me how to think not what to think you know like weapon systems engineering is applied physics and it was you know understanding the electromagnetic spectrum wave provocation and um you know why hf why use hf comms why you should vhf why use you know how night vision interacts with nvgs and like it was like applied physics for battlefield my political science was the understanding you know how governments interact with people and and you know i wanted to know what the problem was i always saw being a seal officer like you got the why the what and how and you know you got to explain to the guys why we're doing what we're doing we're a tactical unit that makes strategic impact and you know how can you look at the can you look at the the the the scope of what's happening on the battlefield and figure out how to apply this force and have the most bang for the buck.

3:09:58And I was a political science major, you get a bachelor of science in political science, but it's like, I don't even know what the politics were of any of my professors. That's unbelievable these days, it was like, this is what's going on and let's talk about it. Middle Eastern politics, I did a deep dive and did like an 85-page paper on the Muslim Brotherhood. And it was just unbelievable, like that portion of it, how to think and how to prepare. I felt extremely well prepared when I left there as a thinker, if that makes any sense. Yeah, look at – that was worth its weight in gold. Like that place, they always say it's a great place to be from, not a great place to be.

3:10:49And I will double down on that one. But the education that I walked away with was, you know, we used to joke around like, that's a$500 ,000 education, shoved up your ass one nickel at a time. It's like, it is. But it was worth it. It was all worth it. You know, graduation day, everyone else could get 30 days of basket leave. and I hopped in the car and I drove straight out to Coronado and I joined a SQT class, went through a brush-up, and then went over to SEAL Team 1, found Commander Wilson, said, hey, you guys are deploying first. I want to deploy. And Commander Wilson sat me down and he goes, all right, here's the deal, man.

3:11:37Your education is on the battlefield. You run a gunfire. Any chance you get to deploy, you deploy. You don't take your disassociated tour and go get a master's degree. You go back. And this is like, we don't know how long this war is going to end. And to be an effective officer, you need to be downrange. And so that was my, I went back to the team. I was just like, okay, let's go. I want to do this. How did it feel getting back to the teams as an officer? It was weird because as an officer, you have to go from the, I was enlisted on the East Coast. And then I had to go to the West Coast. because they don't want you being enlisted in the same, uh, on the same coast that, but I've been gone for so long that it was like, you know, I knew a bunch of guys and it was always, it was great because you had a ring.

3:12:26So you were part of the circle, but I had a good conduct medal and I was a prior enlisted team guy. And so I didn't get sloughed off by the enlisted guys. You know what I mean? It was like, I was able to have one foot in each and getting back to the teams was like, I was like, okay, this is what I did all that bullshit for and there's a war. I have purpose. I want to go downrange.

3:12:54It was like coming home. Coronado was home to me. One of the, my senior year, so you have different sponsors at the academy and their families that take you in during the time. And you go there on the weekends. You can wash clothes, hang out with their families. You become like a part of their family. And oftentimes you have multiple families because you'll go home with your roommate's family and become friends with them. And then they come to your family. And so there are all these families in Annapolis that take care of the mids. And it's just a really cool aspect of it that often gets overlooked when people talk about the academy.

3:13:30And I had two real groups. And one were the McWaters. And she was a Navy captain. She lived on Captain's Row. And my plebe year, when I met her, I go over to their house, and we knock on the door. And her husband answers the door, Bernie. And he sees my trident, and he's like, what the hell are you doing here? And I go, I don't know. And he goes, where are you from? I said, I'm from Erie, Pennsylvania. and he goes I was a intel officer in Vietnam with the Navy SEAL from Erie Pennsylvania and it was Dave Strong and I was like I know Dave Strong very well and he's like come on in and they became it was one of those one of those moments where you're like oh I'm in the right place they were this amazing family that took care of me and then I Jeremy we had another is two gentlemen, Alex and Joe, who own the Annapolis Inn.

3:14:35And they've sponsored hundreds of mids. And Alex and Joe were our other sponsor family. And we go over there and Alex, he was a Spanish teacher. Thank God he tutored me through Spanish so I could get through the academy. But my senior year, the McWatters came to me and said, we're going with the Catholic Midshipmen Club to Rome and then Magigori on spring break. we'd like you to come with us and i was like hell no like spring break my senior year we're about to go back to war i'm like i'm going to cancun like there's no way and you know bernie's like uh our son brandon really looks up to you and we want him to go and we'd really like for you to come with us And I was like, okay, I'll do it.

3:15:23And so I went and I was, you know, I had my grandmother as a Catholic and my dad always just did not like the whole Catholic church. And I'm like, but these people were so important to me and they were so good to me. and when they asked me i'm like okay and bernie and i you know he was an intel officer with you know with the teams and he's just the nicest there was just the nicest people ever so i went and we went to every basilica in rome and there were some admirals there were some old there were some young midshipmen some old retired admirals and was just massive group and i i was like kind of It was security, I guess, you know, like this gaggle.

3:16:10And so I'm like, all right, I'll go this, but I'll just like, you know, I'll just kind of look over everybody. I don't buy any of this stuff. And the chaplain became my drinking buddy. And we go to, he was, they were doing communion like four times a day. And I was just like, oh, my God, this is like, this is crazy. and every day we'd get down we go to dinner and then i would sit down and i would just start to talk with the chaplain you know because in my mind i'm like maybe i should find this thing i need to find this like maybe this guy can he's gonna open up my heart and tell me something that i don't see and if i'm going to combat like i should have this and every day we would just pick it apart and i'd be like i don't buy this like i'm reading his words and his word says the kingdom of God is inside you.

3:16:59Like, why do I need this building? Why do I need you? Like, what's this voice in my head? And he'd laugh and he was a great dude. I wish I, Father John, I can remember his last name. We went, every basilica, went to the catacombs where the Christians prayed when they were being persecuted and they were buried, like walking, I mean, it's tunnels under Rome and their bodies are stacked and like skeletons. We had mass and there's a small cathedral under St. Peter's Cathedral that's like a private mass. We had a private mass down there. And then we all got on a plane and flew to Magigori where the Virgin Mary appears to, they appeared to these children, these visions.

3:17:46And it's in Bosnia. This is like 2003 and Bosnia is still kind of, I'm like, is it, you think guys, this is smart. We're taking a bunch of like military people into Bosnia to go on this adventure. And then we go to this town and Magigori is just this really interesting place. And the story is that these children were playing and the Virgin Mary appeared to them and they flew up the mountain. And over a 40 year period, she would appear to them and give them, you know, to talk to them about what's going to happen. and then they would repeat what's going on. And I was just like, with the priest, I'm like, do you really believe this?

3:18:28He's like, I'm not even supposed to be here because it's not sanctioned by the Catholic church. And there were all these things you do in magic where you go up and pray on Cross Mountain. And in Virgin Mary, if you're there and when the sun comes up, you're going to get blessed. And first day we're having breakfast, one of the midshipmen comes down and they'd gone up and been there for sunrise. they come down and she goes I saw the Virgin Mary and the priest and I at the same time were like bullshit and I was like you don't believe it either he's like I don't he just he couldn't wrap his head around I couldn't wrap my head around it I went up there I was there in the morning um there was another actually another guy became a team guy Batista Jimmy Batista went with me and we went up for we went up and slept on cross mountain and you know we're there in the sunrise and we did everything we're supposed to do and i'm just like listen i don't buy any of this and so the second last day we're there um we went to see one of the uh vision the one of the children who's now an adult they're going to speak through a translator and tell us what her latest vision was and so i go bernie's next to me and the priest is next to me and there's probably 150 people and And this woman gets up on a deck and she's talking about the vision.

3:19:47And I'm just kind of like, the translator's giving the translation. And I'm just kind of like, all right, let's get this over with. This woman looks at me. And she locks eyes with me. And I feel this, like someone's grabbing me on my shoulders and pulling me down. And I can't move. And I'm just like, and I start to sway a little bit. And I'm like, what the fuck? and and the priest like looks over at me and i'm just kind of like and this wasn't like a this wasn't like two seconds this is like now we're into like 10 seconds and i'm like i can't move and finally she just smiles and she looks away from me and i look over at the priest and he goes what was that and i was like i don't know and i turned around i walked away and he came and found me and he's like what happened and i was like i don't want to talk about it he's like something happened and i was like i don't want to talk about it like i don't want to talk about it and we left there and i'll never forget that i wasn't instantly converted i wasn't like oh my god i found it you know i was like i don't know what that was but that happened and I was afraid to tell Bernie and Marty because they're like, see, you're meant to be a Catholic.

3:21:10And I came back and I signed up for confirmation classes. And I'm like, you know what, I'll try this out. And so I went to my first Sunday confirmation class because the priest was one of the chaplains. And I went in and he does the mass. and then the end of the mass if you're in confirmation class before communion they go okay you guys leave like you're not you're not good enough to be here and when we did that i turned around and i had i just looked and it was like this feeling came over me of like why am i pledging why am i i don't the word says he's within me the god the kingdom of god is with me within me why do I have, why do I need to do this?

3:21:57And I walked out and after mass, the father was, uh, father John was there and I was like, I'm not doing it. He's like, why? And I'm like, this just doesn't feel right to me. And that was it. I left it, walked away, you know, graduated. And I was like, I tried, I gave you, I gave it a shot, man. I did your trip. You know, I I'm, I'm trying, I'm trying to play this game, but I couldn't wrap my head around the way it was structured within the Catholic Church. It just didn't make any sense. It's like, well, what he said, like, isn't what, he didn't, he said, this church thing doesn't, he said, he was flipping over tables.

3:22:42He was saying these guys were, this is the problem, you know, this organized religion. And he's saying that the kingdom of God is within me. Like, I don't understand why I need you. So I gave it up. Went back to the teams. What do you think that was?

3:23:00I don't know. I don't know. What comes to your mind? Guardian angel. My mom. Like, hey. Time.

3:23:24I don't know.

3:23:29It was real. It happened. And it freaked me out. But I couldn't... When you're not there mentally, my ego was in the way. I was like, I'm going to be... I'm a Sierra Leone commando. I'm going to do this. I'm going to war. You know what I mean? I'm just playing these games for you. That's where I was mentally. I think. You weren't open. I wasn't. I was like, I'm trying. I'm playing your games, but I'm just not there yet. And I don't... But it happened. I...

3:24:06That's real. 100%. And it freaked me out.

3:24:15Does it still freak you out? Not anymore. I think it was the... I think it was my mom. I think it was my guardian angels. They just make our job a little easier. Just, can you just make, like you are a complete shit show. Can you just like, let's try this. Like we can guide you a little bit. We'll have more pull. Otherwise we got to work overtime with you. You got too much going on.

3:24:52You know, I went back to teams and, you know, first deployment was a liaison officer on the expeditionary strike group to General Medina. Ended up coming into southern Iraq and we were the northern Arabian Gulf task unit. And I flew around to work with the Brits. There was nothing, you know, little stuff here and there. patrols, you know, overflights. That was when the suicide bomber tried to take out the gas and oil platforms. They took the boat out there. And so we were looking for the cell. But the Brits own the southern Iraq, and that was the Brit AO, and they wanted nothing to do with kinetic stuff.

3:25:39And so we were trying our best to affect the battlefield, but the Brits owned the battlefield, and they did not want anything happening on their watch. and you know we were you know little little stuff get shot out on patrol but not like in a war you know what i mean it was like is this this is what this is but during that deployment i was at a danish base um i logged on to my email hotmail trying to figure out you know the keyboard looks a little different you're trying to figure out like where are the letters that I need and I log on and there's an email from Brian Bourgeois who was in our company and it said I'm sorry about Brett I was like what then I scroll down and it was a forward of a newspaper article and Brett my roommate tripod pod he'd gone in the marine corps and finished tbi um or tbs the basic school he went to base school then infantry school and he was down in camp lejeune and he was a rifle platoon commander getting ready to deploy to iraq he and a bunch of his friends including his best friend from high school and a fellow wrestler kevin mccann they all met up and went to a north carolina state football game for opening opening day and they were tailgating and a car came ripping through the parking lot and everybody was throwing stuff at the car because they were speeding and the car came to screeching halt right in front of the marines tailgate these kids get out and altercation happens and with brett they almost hit a little girl and um all the marines are like hey man you gotta calm down like you guys are driving like assholes and these they were obviously under the influence of something and altercation breaks out and brett just wipes the floor with the kid and throws him back in the car he's like get out of here and they drive away marines go back to tailgating 30 minutes later that kid walks up with a gun in his hand and fucking shoots brett the throat kills him Kevin McCann his best friend not a marine everyone else hits the deck Kevin McCann jumps on the shooter starts wrestling the gun away shooter puts the gun to Kevin's head executes him these kids get up and leave

3:28:27He was gone. In not war.

3:28:34He'd spent every single day of my time at the academy. He was two feet from me. He'd held me when my dad died.

3:28:54quite literally the most beautiful soul i'd ever known the smile is like with light up it lit up heaven and i just sat in this base I was like I read that I'm like I don't even know the last picture I had with him is on graduation day I'm standing behind him and Mr. Ferrier my stepdad he just walked on the field with the camera he snapped this picture of the two of us together and Brett's beautiful smile and we're in our whites it was pouring down rain

3:29:38and he never he never he was born leader he was an amazing wrestler but he wasn't the best wrestler he just worked the hardest there's there's an award at the naval academy called the brett harman award we give out every year it's the kid it's like the fire in the gut But he was a part of every good memory I had at that place all day, every day. We struggled through every class together. We laughed, played music, made up songs, wrestled, drunk on the floor. Jeremy and Johnny and I, to this day, I still think it's, you've lost other guys in combat. You know, you lose friends in combat. We signed up for that.

3:30:37That's okay.

3:30:41that was like that side that that hit me like i can't even imagine i still was like a train just fucking bulldozed me and the marine i worked for at the time um jan till was his she was a naval academy grad jan till was his secretary and i emailed that to jen and she went told the general and he goes send him home send him home to be with her mother the other marines aren't going to get to go home so i got this note on a base it was like go home find a way so i grabbed field camis my gun hopped on a helicopter flew to basra like gave my to another seal that was there caught a transport plane to kuwait then angled some orders i was covered and i was i literally had a backpack with a flip phone and a and a credit card I landed and took a, you know, benangled my way on a flight with a group of Army reservist guys going back for their, you know, mid-year tour break.

3:31:46Landed in Dallas. And one of the sponsor dads for the Naval Academy, Mr. Bentley, he had sponsored a bunch of power enlisted Marines. He was a legend. He was a, you know, tried in industries in Dallas. I mean, you can do a two-hour podcast on the good that man did. had his guys pick me up and drove me straight to Neiman Marcus. And he's like, you need clothes. I was wearing field camis. He dressed me. He bought a gift for Brett's mother. And he was like, here's a plane ticket to Chicago. Go be with his mother and make sure she gets that. And that's from all of, that's from your room. I got on a plane and went there and we all just congregated in Chicago.

3:32:31and Brett was a huge Cubs fan and we buried him. My buddies from the academy went, they found whites for me. They put together a uniform for me, met me. And I just sat with his mother and then ass over tea kettle, planes, trains, and automobiles, finding my way back to baghdad trying to convince people at dover like i just need a flight back to iraq and they're like who are you i'm like uh but it was that was that you know people talk about their first rotation like that was my first rotation it was the worst loss that i've ever experienced and it wasn't even on battlefield damn pete yeah

3:33:36he was he was the best of us

3:33:43i'm sorry man yeah well thank you

3:33:49I came back from that rotation in Brett and immediately started another workup at team one

3:34:00and

3:34:04yeah anyways it was hard to shift gears from that

3:34:12that one just that one just It just doesn't... It doesn't sit well with me. Still, to this day, it doesn't sit well with me. I can see that. I hope this motherfucker's burning.

3:34:30They get life in prison. I don't know. Senseless. Senseless.

3:34:42Want to take a break? Yeah.

3:34:59All right, we're back from the break. Where are we picking up from here? Get back to the SEAL teams. Yeah, SEAL team one. Backing up the tune and starting to work up again. You know, go to Pro Dem, whatever. but I got picked to go to a JTAC school. And I was like, right on, this is cool. And my shooting buddy at the time was Bo Nankibble. And Bo's roommate and best friend was JT Tomlinson. And JT and his platoon had been picked to be a JTAC as well. And so Bo and JT and I always were hanging out together. I said, you guys are going to go to the same JTAC school. JT and I loaded up my pickup truck with two dirt bikes, uh snowboards road bikes all of our kit and we headed up to fallon and we had two hotel rooms so one hotel room was the gear box all our shit in the other hotel room we slept in and every night we'd you know go to jtac school and then as soon as it was cut we'd either go for a road bike ride we'd go for a run or hop on our dirt bikes and head all around the desert and i I started, when I got out, I started, or got back out there, I bought a dirt bike and I started racing in the desert races.

3:36:18One of my chiefs, Hans Garcia, was like, you got to try this out. And so I bought a YZF 250 and we would go out and the desert races are like 60 miles, 120 miles, and it's just a loop. And it is a physical, just, it's unbelievable. It's a great workout, but it's like, as a team guy, being a competitive person, the minute they drop the bomb on that thing, you're just like, pin it. And you're like, bah! And you go until you crash, and then you get up and you crash again. And it's just like, but it is unbelievable. So I started doing that, and we're at JTAC school, and there's all kinds of trails to ride around Fallon.

3:36:59So JT and I are ripping around Fallon. On the weekend, we go up to Tahoe. we'd go skiing he was a snowboarder I was a skier and we just had the best time and during that I think it was a month JT and I became extremely close like we were together all day every day in class and then all day every day after class and and it was like he I just I don't know it was it was that was the best part of that workup was that trip you know dropping bombs learn how to drop bombs with the top gun guys and then that night heading out on our dirt bikes and you know tearing up the single track around fallon um so that was you know we came back from that and then uh my my troop commander at the time he just come over team five dave silverman he said hey do you want to augment damn neck and i'm like yeah let's send me down range so i went over and it was uh right after Red Wings.

3:37:59Like, when I made it, they were, those guys were on their way back and I was coming into country, like, passing the airfield. And it was my first augment. And as soon as I got there, I... Damn, that is SEAL Team 6 for those who don't know. Yeah. And so, as soon as I got there, I went over the compound. So, you have C. Gisodaf and JSOC and C. Gisodaf is Combined Joint Special Operations Task Force, which would be all the foreign guys plus all of the white side, Green Berets, SEALs, STBs, and then JSOC is obviously JSOC.

3:38:40Anyways, we, so as soon as I got there, went over to the compound. I mean, they just lost, like the biggest loss in NSW history. And a couple of my friends, Dave Williams, was on the helicopter behind, the helicopter that got shot down. And, man, there was just weight on that compound. And it was just heavy. And Kevin Pope was like one of my sea daddies, a teammate. He was a master chief at the time. I found Kevin and, you know, just what happened. And it was, that was, you didn't, you didn't see the effects of war. And I hadn't seen the effects of war until that moment. You know, like you saw it on guys' faces that were, like, they looked older.

3:39:33You know, guys that were young, happy, laughing dudes at the Naval Academy, like Dave, like he was visibly shaken. and it was like, this is real. And it was a really, I remember that very specifically. And we, I was, at the time, I'd just gotten over there and we were running some of the, I was working the desk at the Omega desk and we were putting together the, so the minute the Helicopter crashed, the investigation went from C.J. Sodef and it became a CSAR. and the authority went to JSOC. So at that moment, all of the investigation was shouldered by JSOC of the Red Wings operation. And they were in the middle of it.

3:40:26And since it was out by a sod of bad, and I was working with some of the Omegas, which were the outstations, we were tasked with helping with the investigation. and so going through all the reports and just getting to you know see that the whiteboards are still the whiteboards are still drawn with like you know timelines and this went to here and like trying to you know piece this whole thing together and uh being in the jock stock man was like the carpet the plywood palace and one of the uh one of the master chiefs billy he's like he had a couple other friend team guys that i had been through buds with and they're like oh you you're prior enlisted i'm like yeah they're like you got any good quals and i was like i just went to jtac school and they're like he's like perfect there's a helo leaving in 30 minutes for kandahar he hands me a lot of cash he's like take this down to uh omega down there get out of here and don't come back.

3:41:30And I was like, Roger that. And so, you know, I got to, that deployment was fantastic because it was, I got to call in some airstrikes. I got to see the different outstations. I got to see how JSOC operated, which is completely different from how the regular teams were operating in country. And that was a,

3:42:00I mean, when I was in Kandahar, I was big into riding dirt bikes, made dirt bikes down there. And they had a track out in Kandahar at Camp Gecko, which was Mullah Omar's old compound. And Mullah Omar had built a cave. I saw him in Bin Laden and built a cave for Mullah Omar. And it was on the compound. And there was a statue at the front of Camp Gecko that had a... It was like his interpretation of what hell looked like. It was this crazy, like, it was really freaky. We'd go out on the dirt bikes and rip around the track. We took them into Bin Laden's cave and did donuts. I think we were there at the same time.

3:42:44Yeah, probably. So that would be 2005. Yeah, because we were there. July and August. July, August into the beginning of mid-September 2005. so now it's there yeah

3:43:05weird yeah the the 50 meter uh single shot there was a plate at 50 meters you go out in the morning one shot from the holster pistol steel plate and then the hike up behind camp get go yeah little workout um yeah that was a I came back and since I was a new JTAC I went and talked to the AC-130 crews and they were going up to site in a site in the 105s and I said hey can I come along and they were like yeah sure I'm like I would love to see from a JTAC perspective what you see you know what is what I know what it's like to talk to you but like it'll help me picture what you're seeing So I went up and we were over the range.

3:43:54I was up in the cockpit and the selector, the bone of Ahmed Shah, who was the guy they were going after during Red Wings, the selector popped on a mountain. And they spun us over there and they said, Hey man, we're going to roll over there. You want to clear hot on this guy? And I was like, yeah. It was a guy under a blanket making a phone call at the top of a mountain. And, and, uh,

3:44:21I don't think it was, I think there's no way it was Ahmed Shaw, but it was a bad guy nonetheless. And so we, he's no longer on a blanket underneath the, on top of a mountain. He just picked up the wrong cell phone. Um, yeah, that was, that was, that was interesting to be in the plane and we're just like, you know, looking down. What was that experience like? just seeing from the pilot standpoint seeing the flare and how the you know everything how the whole system worked and being in the plane and watching the the air crew um and sitting up in the cockpit and watching the pilots ac-130 pilots like that that platform is that's the most amazing platform we have in you know the spooky guys i can't say enough about those guys because they fly low and slow and they hang it out there man and the amount of firepower that they are able to bring to bear in a fraction of a second i mean because you you know you said the the tgb the green beam it's like it looks like a lightsaber and you just kind of on the ground you just you know hey rope yeah i'm mark here call contact contact and then they just start hammering and their precision is unbelievable so to see that from uh from the sky and to watch the cruise and just kind of be present in there was a really amazing experience but you know had the chance to i'm not sure who we got but got somebody nice uh but yeah we came back from that rotation and And they immediately put me in, I had about a month, and they threw me in free fall school.

3:46:08And my wife, Heather, at the time, not my wife, she was my friend growing up. And we used to ski together. She actually knew my dad. I had this huge crush on her. I met her in the sixth grade, and I was like, oh, my God, this girl is amazing. And she's an awesome skier, an awesome soccer player. post-college she went and played soccer at WVU and she's beautiful I just had this thing for her and I wrote her some music I sent her it out to her in the mail on like a CD like hey and I said hey you want to come out and go on a road trip and she's like sure it's off season in Aspen she was working as a snowboard instructor on Snowmass and she coached a soccer team in Basalt, a high school soccer team.

3:47:00And so she came out for a road trip. And I ended up getting thrown into a free fall school. And at the time I was living in Coronado, my sponsor parents from the academy, the McWatters, they had this awesome house and they had a back alley apartment. And so they rented me this back alley apartment that was a single car garage converted into a living space. It had bunk beds. I'm 26 years old. I got bunk beds and a tiny little bathroom and there's a dirt bike in there and a you know like a love sack and it was like the crash pad for all the team guys they get drunk at danny's and they'd be like i'd come into my i'd come into my apartment i'd be like dudes i didn't even know like crashing because i'm like hey if you're drunk don't drive home just crash at my place and so you'd wake up in the morning and it was like littered with frog men like dudes would be coming in the middle of night you know like hey can I stay here dude's coming I had I had this tiny little window and these and I had cinder blocks with um like two by eights um that were that had like a little tv on that were on the windows and I can't tell you how many times dude came through my window and wrecked my whole two by eights it would be all over the floor in the morning and there's like some half clothed frog man like laying on the floor and I'd be like hey dude uh I'm heading in do you need a ride like what team you have i'm team five all right let's go and uh so i had this awesome little apartment and yeah i didn't really leave coronado back then i love coronado like that is that's just it was awesome home we go to danny's it wasn't the tomb that it is today it was just kind of light-hearted um and i met eric schellenberger there and i thought shelly was a bartender turns out he was actually a team one at the time i was like oh you're the bartender from from danny's he's like actually i'm in the i'm in delta platoon i was like oh cool um so i invite heather out for for a road trip and i'm like let's just let's just hang out and do something fun she comes out and get stuck in free fall school and i show up and she's sitting in my little apartment.

3:49:07And I'm like, I'm like, this is my dream girl. And we ended up hanging out six days. And after six days, I was like, you want to marry me? And she's like, yeah. And I had hoped something like this would happen. And on my deployment to Afghanistan, I actually ordered a ring from on USAA. So I was like in the, in the jock, like ordering a ring, I sent it and it was supposed to be like delivered, you know, to the apartment and they delivered it to the apartment across or the house across the street. Cause I couldn't find my little back alley apartment. I came home freaking out. I'm like, was there a package here?

3:49:48It says it's delivered. No, she's like, no, I'm like running around, knocking on everybody's door. And this woman hands me this, like, you know, one carat diamond ring in a box and we go to the hotel Dell and, I asked her to marry me. I was like, you want to marry me? And she's like, yeah. I'm like, all right. Gave her a ring. I'm like, I guess we're doing this. And this is about six, I don't know, we're about two weeks from deploying. And a couple more, I'm still tying, we're tying up loose ends before deployment. And I go in and Silverman and Nan Kilbler are there and they're like, so you're going to do this or what?

3:50:26I'm like, what do you mean? They're like, you're going to marry her or what? I'm like, well, yeah, eventually. And they're like, no, no, you got to do it before we leave. Like, you got nobody to give you, you have nobody to sign your SGLI paperwork to. And I was like, oh, like, let's go. So we all packed it up and went down to the courthouse. And we like, the four of us coughed up our cash. It was like, they wouldn't take cards. They wouldn't take a debit card. You had to pay cash. So we're like, I'm like, you got 50 cents? Like, we scraped the money together. and uh and Heather and I get married and we go to Danny's afterwards and of course Bo and Dave are like calling the platoon they're like Scobell got married and everyone's like wait what so they all show up because they're like who who is this girl and the guys show up and everybody's you know we're all drinking and hanging out and um and uh one of the guys goes uh Mrs.

3:51:23Scobell oh, would you like to order a shot for the troop? And she's like, sure. And they're like, what would you like, a lemon drop? She goes, I don't drink that pussy shit. Jack Daniels. And they were like, this is the girl.

3:51:38And so we hopped in the car. After we got married, we hopped in the car. I take that, the party happened before the marriage. We got, the next day was the marriage. We went to Dave's house, we had pizza, And we hopped in the car and we drove up to do like a road trip. And we ended up pulling over at a rest stop and we slept in the back of my Toyota Tacoma. And so our first night was in the back of a pickup truck. Nice. Headed up to Healdsburg and went up to Healdsburg. We stayed at this place called the Madrona Manor. And it was a cool bed and breakfast. We were there like two days, did some wine tasting.

3:52:17And then I bought a ring in town in Healdsburg and we drove back and it was like getting on a plane the next day. I'm like, it was that fast.

3:52:31And I'm like, well, so I did my paperwork. I'm like, so here's the deal. Like, I don't have anybody. I don't have family. I don't have anybody. But, you know, if something happens to me, then, you know, you'll get this. And here are the keys to my car. um i don't know i was well you know she and she she drives me to the north island and it's right out of a movie you got the band playing oh everybody's saying goodbye to their their families and we're flying out on c5 and um the guys get on the plane and i'm sitting with heather and and i go i don't know how we do this and she goes don't be careful and I'm like what she goes looks at me just very calmly she goes don't be careful what she goes every time you try to be careful you do something stupid she goes just go all out kill everybody and come home and I was like all right I can't hear my keys and I got on the plane and Bo goes what'd she say I'm gonna plan but she told me not to be careful and Bo goes oh this could be a great deployment.

3:53:41Still going to kill everybody and come home. Yeah. Not to be careful, kill everybody to come home. And they were like, dude, that's awesome. And, you know, that was goodbye. And she drove, she'd never even drove a standard. And she drove my Toyota Tacoma pickup from San Diego back to, back to the Valley, Roaring Pork Valley. And I bought her a computer. We went to the Apple store. I was like, and we set up an email. And I was like, I'll email you. And, later. See you in six months. Yeah, see you in six. Ended up being eight months. And that's, you know, we got to Baghdad and it was 2005 in Baghdad and it was like, you know, you had the invasion and then there was that lull after the invasion and then we came in and made a bunch of stupid decisions like firing the entire leadership of the army, the Iraqi army, you know.

3:54:32I mean, the makeup of Iraq is like about 70 % Shia, 20 % Sunni, 10 % Kurd. And Saddam Hussein was a Sunni. And so he was in a minority leading, he ruled with an iron fist, the Shia. Iran is Shia, right? So that's the Iran-Iraq wars over the border down south. So it was the massive influx of Shia. And most of the officer corps of the bath party was Sunni. So when we fired these guys, it was like chaos. And that's, you know, these guys all packed up and that's what started the insurgency. I was like, it was in my mind, probably the worst decision. And I still hadn't like figured out like, like, like I get Afghanistan.

3:55:21That one makes sense. Uh, you know, bin Laden, Al Qaeda that makes sense What are we doing over here You know I was like It was from a geopolitical standpoint In that moment Yeah I was just like That's what we were doing over there We were what Halliburton Oh yes That's what we were doing over there Yes Feeding Dick Cheney's company We were feeding And this kind of jumps a little bit I remember coming in from an op one night And it was around Thanksgiving And we roll in onto buy app and we've just been out getting after it and there's an ice sculpture in the chow hall and i'm sitting there looking at my my chief and i'm like What the fuck is this?

3:56:08Like, you know, we had been working with the Iraqi counter-terrorist force and we had no budget, right? It's like we're trying to scrape together, you know, gear and whatnot for these guys. And you roll into the chow hall and there's an ice sculpture. And I'm just like, I remember, this is fucked up. Like, this is, like, how do you explain to the guys, like, yeah, we're doing God's work. like this is we're god and country like what are we doing here you know i mean anyway so when we get there we kind of got chopped away it was an interesting time and the insurgency was starting to pick up and there was a uh green berets that had trained the iraqi counter-terrorist force so the the sift companies had been training these guys for about two years and they had been billed as like the delta force of the Iraqis.

3:57:01And so we're like, wow, that sounds cool. And they wanted to put an Iraqi face on all the operations. So we were in this like hybrid mode of outdoing assaults, but with Iraqis. So, you know, we like, you know, total like maybe 10 Americans going out and then, you know, 50 Iraqis. So we get there and we're working with fifth group. So over the other time, we were fifth group, third group, and seventh group. And we were kind of chopped away in this really odd... We weren't working for C. J. SOTIF directly. And we got loosely attached to 16, which was JSOC. And at the time, that was when Delta was spinning up.

3:57:49Dude, those guys are legends, man. I mean, I remember rolling in the green zone and just watching like every night that little birds lifting off the green zone. And those guys are just getting after it and slaying people. It was like, holy shit, man. I got so much respect for the D-Boys. Those guys were like, they were living the dream during that time. I mean, it was, they were just running and running. So, but we got the, we got the Delta, we got the Delta Force, the Iraq. the iraq and you know they break it up we get over there and um they're like you're gonna take um you're gonna take a recce the recce guys and um you're gonna do ground mobility because i was into the mobility thing like i was riding dirt bikes i was doing the all the off-road stuff and and we had you know nsw didn't do ground mobility like until we got to afghanistan it was like we allowed to touch anything that had wheels on it because everything that we touch breaks like you know remember that old saying about like put a frogman in a room with a room with no doors no windows and three steel balls and he'll break one lose the other one and get the third one pregnant like that's the like nobody was going to give us vehicles right and we get over there they're like okay you guys are gonna you guys are gonna patrol in humvees and so the nsw mobility was in this like infant stages.

3:59:14And so it was like, write the book on it. How are we going to do it? And so at the time, you know, we got over there and like looking at the battle space and the IEDs were going up and we were like five or six, like a week. And then it started getting more and more and more. And, and so, and I was in charge of ground mobility and the recce guys. And so as soon as we got there, I'm like, Hey, I went to the EOD guy and I'm like, let's plot every IED on FalconView. So we had FalconView, which is flight planning software. And we were actually using that as our navigational software. Because it's like, the only other way you'd navigate around Baghdad is like, there's like a map, right?

3:59:53And you have a GPS and you try to match it up. And so what we did was we took GPSs, like maritime GPSs, and we would take the GPS feed, put it into Toughbook. And then we would download all the available maps and geolocate them, including overhead imagery, into there. And then I would start to layer, you know, hey, this road isn't here, the latest imagery of whatever got blown up the night before. And so we built this database with every IED time stamped, and we started to see these patterns emerge. And it was like, you know, right before curfew, IEDs would go off and then right in the morning, and they're on the main MSRs, and then you'd see them run the FOBs.

4:00:34And so, you know, as a lead navigator, I was like, all right, so we would, I would throw these potential routes in there, um, you know, red, yellow, and green routes. And we would just, we'd head out and I'd navigate, we would navigate on flight planning software. So we could use the latest and greatest, um, uh, navigational stuff. The army had a navigational component in their, in their system, but it was like, like this big thing in the Humvee. And then your blob was like this big, and you can't see turns. You can't, it was like kind of useless. So we created this, like our guys do. We just innovated, you know, and we created this database.

4:01:16We created a new way to navigate. And my recce guys, I get there and I'm like, oh, this is going to be cool. Like, you know, like we'll get the recce guys, like they were playing clothes. And their mission was to, you know, we would give them a location where we, a known location of a bad guy, and we'd put them in a car, and they had cameras in the car, and then we would put the, we'd put an E-TREX in it with a hidden puck, and they would drive out, they would go to the, where they thought the location was, take a couple pictures, they would come back, I'd download the pictures, and we would pull the breadcrumbs off, and analyze the route, and then that night, that was used for the assault force, right, so that's how we were kind of using these guys and so you know and they were also tasked with you know cumin and so we get there and you know we're we had a great working relationship with the um green brace i love those guys a phenomenal group um they were just like we've been training these guys for two years we take them out to the range we're like well let's you know let's see what we got and you know let's do some they're wearing plain clothes so the recce guys are plain clothes and i'm looking at my crew and I'm just like feeling like maybe I didn't get like the elite group.

4:02:37You know what I mean? These guys put my holster and dude, like we were diving for cover. We're like, what? The bullets going everywhere, sweeping everything. Come to find out one of the guys, he had shot himself in the foot like the week earlier in his barracks room. And I'm just like, I'm like, Oh, maybe, maybe, maybe this is going to be a little rougher than I'm thinking. And I come to find out, like, nobody wanted to be in recce. So, like, I got the, like, the bad news bears of the group. The fifth group guys are like, okay, magical seals. Let's see what you can do with these fucking guys. And we were just like, all right, I guess we got to start training these guys.

4:03:17And the other side was like, well, take the car. And they were like, no, we're not driving that car. I'm like, why aren't you driving? They're like, we've driven this car in every neighborhood in Baghdad. And every time we drive in, this is via the Terp, every time we drive in there, like, they know the assault force is coming. So we're going to, they were scared of driving the cars in. I was like, well, let's get them new cars. And, you know, of course, the Green Braves are like, no, shit, we haven't thought of that, you know. We're like, we don't have any budget. We got no money. I'm like, you know, there's ice sculptures in the chow hall, and there's no budget for these guys that are out there, you know, we're conducting ops.

4:03:52So I'm like, so one night we go on an op and we kill a guy and there's a key, there's a set of keys in the room, in the house. And I walk out on the street and there's a clicker and beep, beep, there's a suburban. And I was like, he's dead. And it's my new guy. I'm like, let's drive this thing back. We drive it back. And I'm like, we got a, so we had a mechanic that worked there. His name was Ali. It was either Muhammad or Ali. and uh i go to ali i'm like hey you know we need to sell this and buy a new one and i'm working with my terp who's sudanese you know and he's doing doing they go between his name was pete and um ali he gets it right away he goes yeah me go bad dad and he the next day he comes back and he's got a new car and i was like i'm sure he's you know sold it kept some money whatever I didn't care.

4:04:46So then I'm like, where else are there cars around here? They're like, well, the DIF has got cars that we confiscate, the interrogation facility. So we sneak over there one night and jump the fence. We start looking at cars with Ali, and we're like, pick a couple that can be fixed. And so we gank those, and we steal those. Take them to Baghdad, swap them out, bring them back. Rig up new cameras. Now we've got new stuff. Meanwhile, we're trying to train these guys who they're not. These guys are not elite. the one morning i'm like uh hey all right guys gotta be here tomorrow nine o 'clock lieutenant mahamud looks at me goes inshallah he leaves and i look at the terp and i was like god willing he's like they're not coming at eight o 'clock at 10 o 'clock they show up like hey and i was like all right next day i'm like eight o 'clock they're like inshallah so at 805 i'm standing at their barracks with a flash crash grenade.

4:05:41I was like, blah! I'm screaming out and they're running by me. I'm like, inshallah! You'd think that would get them motivated. They showed up at like 9.30 the next day. They're like, it's better. I'm like, we're making progress.

4:06:00So we started scavenging. We started scavenging and I go to the dump and I found like a CP generator and we'd sell that sell that on the black market use the money to buy new equipment and gear and we're training with them and and they started to get more capable i mean you know like they were getting more confident you know we teach them how to shoot from the holster we get them some new gear like i step sister worked for north face and i called her up and i was like you got any like old north face gear that you guys don't want because they would see us in kit you know we'd have like cool cool guy stuff so i had her she's she mailed over a bunch of old stuff from the um that was like laying around extra inventory and i handed it out these guys get like black day they're like we're really cool guys now you know they're running around and recce like started to become like cool as that was going on dave silverman was just you know i call him the silvermanian devil he just knows how to get shit done and he he just spins and dave's working liaison piece and we send some we send our uh we send a couple guys up to um mnfi we send a guy over to uh to 16 and at the time you know like there's a whole bunch of you know inter there's rivalry everywhere but it was just like inner inner service rivalry and within the army from the green braids to you know cedric sodas to sip um or jsoc to siph and and so we send one of our guys up there and uh and he won over the trust and they started farming out targets to us because we had we had the iraqis and so our our op tempo started to increase and so you know they'd come back i'd take the information throw it in the throw it in falcon view and we started our op tempo started increase and just during that time was when all the cell phone stuff started to take off and that's when like delta's ops went to like four a day i mean they were just like just over and over and um you know we we

4:08:16they started winning we started winning their confidence and a lot more targets started flowing to us i think what also happened was they just had too much work and we had the so they would send us to the sensitive stuff anything that was we don't want an american face on that we need an iraqi face on that and we had this amazing working relationship with the fifth group and third group and i feel like i mean it's just awesome and handful of team guys handful of green berets leading this hodgepodge of uh you know our iraqi deltivores out and about and we ended up going from one op a week to four a day.

4:08:53Four a day? Yeah. And we cleaned out the top 10 deck a few times. We caught, I think, a number of four out. I mean, the stories out of that, I mean, we're just making shit happen, dude. You're trying to figure a step out. I went to the green zone one day, and by this point, that was like wild west of Baghdad. in those times like you know you leave out of the flying man you'd leave you know from the flying man heading the green zone you cross that big bridge and then you enter the green zone and every time you'd roll out of there it was just like rpgs and small arms fire and everyone would button up and it was just like a race course like convoy after convoy making the you know the b line and what i found was like you just drove in a regular car nobody shot at you nobody cared so everybody my self force was sleeping all day and they were up all night and since i was working with my recce guys i was up all day i i just i'm like hey i need shit i need to get done so i would just take one of the cars that we still drive in and meet the guys in the green zone get target package and come back and you know we were just making shit happen during that time and it was it was a it was crazy it was one of those like but it was team guys doing what team guys do you know make a way and it wasn't all pretty you know like I remember you just we'd be out like herding cats and with the Iraqis and you're just like our assaults would go in the room and instead of having a gun on they would have their hands on the back they'd be like you over here you over here like directing it was it was that kind of you know but you know hey we make it work and um you know i can remember being on being out there and seeing the delta like coming by like taking off from the the green zone and the and the little birds i'm like it's like thoroughbreds like wow and i look down and i'm like riding glue stick combat.

4:11:12This is not what I was expecting, but you know what? We're getting work done. Everybody's experience over there is different. And a bunch of interesting little stuff happened during that, but it wasn't until the end of that rotation. That was when the Sadr City Uprising happened. It was like March of 2005. i don't know if you recall that that was there was a couple car bombs that went off in saudi city and it was just like like tensions were really high and our force was like fuck this we're going home like are you serious yeah they were i remember sitting down the iraqis because they would rotate every two weeks so and you know you get a new batch in it was like they knew knew everybody every two weeks would rotate and when this civil war kicked off i was like hey i gotta go home and defend my family and and we had the same kind of demographics of the force you know we had you know 60 shia 20 sunni 10 kurd and you know you could see the guys like percolating and i remember during that time like trying to you know like hey we're you guys are the future of a wreck and trying to like mend this, this, I don't know.

4:12:34It was unnerving because you're going out on target and you're just like, are you going to turn on each other? Are you going to turn on us? Are we in the wrong neighborhood? You know, it was a really, that was a, that was an unnerving time. And we had sent guys out, um, to follow essentially, there was a one guy we had been looking for uh and we hit his house but like a soft hit because he had a sister and we had hit the house and we hadn't essentially made friends with her and she didn't like the guy we were going after because he abused his wife and so we'd convinced this girl to just take a cab to where he lived and our guys were going to follow it mark the target and come home and that was like right as the uprising started and while we're conducting that they like i'm on the phone with these guys and they get rolled up and it's like hell breaks loose in in solder city and it they got grabbed and silent like probably six guys we've been working with and um

4:13:57They got tortured. They got tortured and killed, and they got stuffed in a morgue. And our assault force, all of the guys, all the Iraqi counter-terrorist force guys, hopped on the gun trucks, drove in to the morgue, and they went Winchester, all 50s. They were shooting pistols out of the turrets, dug through the morgue and got their guys' bodies. Damn. And they came home. How did they torture them? They had cut off their genitals, put them in their mouth. They had skinned them. They had drilled. There were drill in their legs. They were drilling them.

4:14:46And this was Iraqi on Iraqi. It was like, and those guys, man, they fought their way in, fought their way out and brought their brothers home. And I don't know why we went to Iraq. I really don't. But, you know, we always talk about, like, why do you fight? You fight for the guy next to you. And I was really proud that day of what they did. And they went in there and they fought to the last round, dug through a morgue and got their brothers that had been tortured and brought them home. And I'm sure it went against, they were in the wrong neighborhood. There were Shias and Sunnis and Kurds fighting together.

4:15:32Those guys went in there and just duked it out. They brought them back. And I went to the head of the ICTF and I said, let's get the families. and I nailed their coffin shut. I'll never forget that. I personally nailed their coffin shut because one of the guys, Saad, had given me a gift, one of the red headdresses, and he gave it to me right before that. He was like, just, he'd given me that, and it was his, he went on that up, and I was like, fuck this. or bring the families in. And we did the best that we could. I nailed the coffin shut personally. And I gave them back. And I could never explain why.

4:16:29You know what I mean? Like that was it. I started to lose a lot of, like we're supposed to be doing good. We're supposed to be, this was supposed to be a positive, of, you know, we're going to free this country. And I was just watching what they were doing to themselves. And the only good I could find was in the brotherhood of those warriors. They were amazing. And, you know, I joke about it at the beginning. There were the bad news bears. But they fought like lions. They really did.

4:17:06And we came back from that rotation. and I actually flew back early, about a week, because I had gotten orders to SDB Team 1. My old boss said, don't take any downtime, get an operational chance to take another operational rotation. We came back from that one and Heather picked me up. Actually, I landed, flew to Colorado, met Heather, and uh i was like hey we're uh going to hawaii pack your shit and uh we got pregnant with lena right after that she got pregnant i hate when dads are like we got pregnant yeah not us them uh but you know now all of a sudden it's like we came back and you know coming back from that it was the first time he's like you you within 48 hours of seeing that and being part of that to sitting in a restaurant in aspen colorado having dinner i was like that short of a time frame and i was just like i remember having second thoughts about what we're doing but i was excited about going to the undersea stuff you know what i mean i'm like i always want like the frogman thing was why i came in but that i still can't get that one out of my head i can't get a rack out of my head because it just could never i never got the answer to why and i think a lot of guys we lost a lot of really amazing marines and and just americans in general but guys that i marines that i knew personally from the academy and you know that it just never sat with me never sat well with me but coming back after that was just just the the sheer where you go from this massive violence to you're in a five-star hotel restaurant in aspen you're like there's something's wrong with this picture and you're trying to be okay And at the time, I was okay.

4:19:19To your new wife. Yeah. You barely spend any time with. Yeah. And so we - Did you talk to her about it? No. So - Did you have any idea? I don't think at the time. I just kind of kept that to myself. Why? What would you say? Like, so what were you doing? I was - I mean, nailing the coffin shut. But some of the nights were worse than others. I mean, we flipped Humvees off a bridge one night, off the bridge going into Baghdad. We were trying to teach the Iraqis how to drive. Iraqi police got into our convoy. Our guys tried to, the Iraqis tried to get them out of the convoy, lost control, and they flipped the Humvee with a bunch of ICTF assaulters in the back.

4:20:08They flipped the Humvee off, and they landed upside down. And then the ambush started. and i you know that was a night that i i was heading out to another op and they were calling the qrf and i rolled up and i was just like oh my god you know we're like picking up body parts on on the street the iraqis just got there were two seals inside the car that were okay fortunately but the iraqis in the back when the humvee went over it flipped upside down and laid on top itself and it was just it was just a mess i mean i i remember walking up to that scene being like oh you get shot at you're just like holy shit you don't see this and this isn't in the movies you know like that you pick literally pick up a hand that's in a movie but like literally pick up a hand throw it in the back of a humvee the iraqis were like freaking out on our ground force commander will hodge at the time like you get get helicopters here we're like the the the hospital's right there and they're like you would you wouldn't if this were americans you'd get helicopters and you know some of the iraqis were really emotional like ripping their body armor off while we're getting shot at and you're just like i remember pulling up to the scene and seeing will and i'm just like dude and he's like just get them out of here get them out of here and we were putting body parts and iraqis in the back of a vehicle and and this is all kind of happened at the end of the deployment like it was like it it was like quiet quiet quiet and then ops ramp ramped up and then it was just like shit everywhere and uh the stress of the you know that was right at the time when the efps showed up and you saw the pictures of the efps you know it's a shape charge and explosively formed projectiles that the iranians had built and shipped over and you know the offset was already built and they were using the uh the garage door sensors where they would put the garage door sensors out so when the front of the humvee broke the the um the the laser it would it was the perfect distance so the efp would go off and go through the passenger side and the driver side and suck everybody the overpressure would suck everybody in the humvee out and i mean these ieds were happening everywhere it was just like and i remember somebody i remember the marines were building um like arms that stuck out over the front remember that they drive around the idea with the arms what does the best you could do you know like let's let the bomb go off and take out the front of the humvee let's stop the not stop the bomb i mean you know and then we were doing four ops a day and it was just like it was that that ending it was just like this i mean are these ops i mean are they all kinetic oh what are these all kinetic ops yeah so what was happening is that's when all the sign and stuff was kicking off and they were tracking selectors and the you know essentially what would happen is these they would start popping they would uh green would head out and they were hitting and whatever was left over they were passing off to or the or the targets like you know we hit the mamali mosque one night you know they didn't want they don't want i wanted more iraqis on assaulting a mosque than uh americans and so when there were sensitive targets like that or anything that was quasi-sensitive, they would send us.

4:23:36And so we ended up as this additional arm of green during that rotation. So it was just individuals going after. But I think that's the hardest thing for me was their HVTs, defined high. What is a high value target? You know what I mean? Like when the risk got to that point, you're putting all these people at risk. In my mind, I'm like, strategic force, tactical operation, like, is the juice worth to squeeze on this? Or are we just chalking up numbers? And you still can't explain to me why we're here in Iraq. You know, like, I...

4:24:21Did you personally go kinetic? You mean, like, shoot somebody? Yeah. Yeah. And most of the engagements happened in, for us, for me, it wasn't in the house it was out the street so as soon as you pull up and you breach the door that's when the shitheads come out and so yeah we were engaging guys in the street all the time that was i mean 100 200 yards like did i hit him i don't know returning fire absolutely um

4:24:56yeah that i mean i mean how did all the killing feel to you wasn't in my do you even have time to think about it no that we were at the at the end when we were hitting targets it was like most of them were either the wrong place or a dry hole and so that was frustrating as well because you're you're following you're chasing the imaginary cell phone right and that's the bad guy um and so again the engagements for me were out in the street um guys pulling up tank pot shots driving off to get in gunfights with the iraq the iraqi police you know what i mean it's just like you didn't know who the like who's are you the good guys are you the bad guys and with the with they're thinking the same thing what's that the iraqi police and the iraqi army 100 because when we you know we were driving everywhere blacked out on nods as fast as possible like that's i'm like hey we go on we go blacked out on knots, drive as fast as you can, keep a low profile and avoid IUD alleys.

4:26:15And it was, and then, you know, they just kept, they started dropping more grids. So you're hitting a grid, you know, and tensions are rising. It was the, that's when the Sauter City started and all over the country they were bombing different churches um it was like everybody just wanted to fight and we were kind of trying to navigate that if that makes sense it wasn't like a you know the team three guys that came after us you know they had a completely different they were they were moving to moving to engage as you know full platoons but we were out there onesie twosies with you know five five iraqis or you know taking them from point a to point b so you're that was always unnerving for me because it's not like i'm i got 40 seals with me i got five seals who are or green berets who are managing the these guys and literally running around I mean it was it it was chaotic that was that that it just it was like this and then it ended here and then it was like now you're home you know what I mean I do it it was like this slow build yeah this isn't so bad and there's a lot of funny shit that happens you know I always like to remember the the funny the funny moments more than And, you know, we had a rocket hit next to our trailers and shrapnel went through my guitar.

4:28:02I was sitting up for a stand where our trailers were all in a circle. And everybody's doors fly open. Everybody okay? My chief was standing across rock and roll and I was like butt-ass naked. I'm like, they got my guitar. and rock and roll he goes those sons of bitches turns around and slams the door i'm like come on man you're gonna get my guitar like this is bullshit you know it was yeah that rotation was again it was like this and then you know that the ending of nailing the coffin shut and was like go back to your trailer pack up your shit fly home it all happened in that period of time and i left and they just kept going the next i mean they were i think they i don't know how many more ops they did before they got on the maps probably home two weeks early and they they they went all the way up to the the gun and then for a day yeah i mean it was crazy and i came home and orders and packed up and i was there when the guys came home you know say goodbye to the platoon and then we went to stv school where i was like can you describe what stv is for the delivery vehicle uh so it's a 22 foot mini submersible sounds really sexy battery powered mini submersible um submarine submersible i guess not submarine it's wet inside so it's not dry so um you know then you navigate with doppler uh you do gps updates i've got about that's run by batteries oh yeah man i didn't know that oh dude i've never been short out they zap you with the butt dude i never wanted to go there stvs is i always envisioned it is looking at a screen packed in there freezing your ass off all the time yeah no dude it's just constantly wet i always tell this i tell the story all the time my one of my um my pilot was tebow and tebow was actually attached to seal team one was with me in iraq so when i got to sdv team one he's my platoon we knew each other pretty well from being overseas together and so he ended up being my pilot and we went up to you do regular work up but you're diving every day i mean you're underwater six hours a day in Pearl.

4:30:37I mean, underwater all the time. And then you're using different rigs. You're using Drager's, you're using Mark 16s and trying to learn how to fly the boat. I mean, back then, I think they have much better stuff now, but back then it's like fly by wire, dude. You got a stick and you got a potentiometer and you're filling up tanks inside for buoyancy and you're just kind of bobbling through the water and it's like a i remember when we got there i was like this is it like dude you're gonna send us like we're screwed man this thing is not it's like i mean it but then you you like anything else you know you get good at it and but i remember i always tell the story we were in keyport we do cold water training and you know water's 42 degrees up in seattle and and jeff and i were doing a about a eight to 10 hour dive 42 degree water and you're wearing crushed neoprene wetsuits and you know you can try everything like diapers but you're eight hours dude you know you guys are trying diapers you got p tubes with catheters you you know you're you're wearing you try everything you can to stay warm they keep you alive but they don't keep you comfortable it's like you know like right at that edge of like what the fuck is this is where you sit for 12 hours there's no food you can try some water with like a camelback and try to you know suck it under your face mask you got a full face mask and you got boat air you got all these rigs you know i call it the death rig mark 16 it's always flashing like balancing out the ppo2 of auction you're like i'm gonna die at any second now like this thing is just not made for success and jeff and i we had two guys normally would fit it can fit four guys in the back um and you pack them in and when you pack them in like i remember being on top of matt leathers and it's snowing out and i'm on my knees on his drager and i'm trying to push him in and shut the back door and matt like undoes he like cracks his valve he's his lips are purple and they're huge.

4:32:49He's just so fucked up, sir. I'm like, I know dude, get in there. Pops it back in and, you know, shut the thing. And then six hours later, you know, you open it up and you're just like, how you doing? What have you been doing down there? And they're just, you know, they got their emergency regulator and they're just packed in like sardines. And the level of misery is, the level of misery is just next. It's just on another, it's so hard to describe it. This one night, Jeff and I, and the boat breaks. I'm in the boat breaks all the time. There's just something wrong with the boat all the time. The navigation systems are like Windows 95.

4:33:27You know, they're like, decide to just reboot. You have like three Windows computers and you're flying on a battery-operated thing in saltwater. Like, you think this is going to work well? It's not going to work well at all. And so we're up in keyboard training and we do like a bottom-up on the aircraft carrier. So you drive into the aircraft carrier and you can see the screws on your obstacle-avoiding sonar and you get underneath the aircraft carrier and you blow, put some water in the boat and they pin it and the guys go out and they go swimming. The aircraft carrier, it's not like there's the edge.

4:33:58Like, it's huge. You know, when you're under there, you're not getting out from underneath there and you just sit while the combat swimmers go do their, whatever they're doing, taking pictures, you know, putting on Olympic mine or something and you just sit there And you have your full face mask on. You're just breathing. And you have what's called a brick. And you can talk to your pilot, talk back and forth. And you're just breathing. And our boat just started, like, all of a sudden valves started blowing, like, over pressure. Like, you know, it's hand-tightened, you know? Like, so valves break.

4:34:33You know, all of a sudden air starts leaking in, the pressure relief valve. The boats just start erupting. All the gauges go everywhere. where Tebow and I are like, the SDV's bouncing along the bottom. It pops out and there's a dive suit boat. And I'm like laying on top of the SDV trying to get it back underwater. Like, don't worry. Don't worry, sneaky guys here. No one's going to see us. Push the boat underwater. And I'm like, all right, this thing's screwed. We got to get out of here. And it's about an hour and a half back up to where we were. and you got to go through, you know, ferry channels where you got to do excursions down to 50 feet so you don't get hit by a ferry doing 18 knots and get cut in half.

4:35:20And Jeff and I have been in the water about eight hours. And at this point, you're at like that breaking point of like, I can't even, I can't even fucking believe, I don't know why I'm doing this. And in your mind, you have gone to every dark place and you're finding dark places to go. You're just like, what am I doing with my life? like why why am i existence what is this existence why are we here on earth like like you are just like your mind's going and i hit the next leg and it's like and the number pops up on the screen like how far you have to go to the next leg of the dive and it's like 12 ,000 yards and and i hear jeff and i hear this and i'm like make a look over and there's a there's a screen so there's some light shining in his mask and then i hear jeff again he's like and i was like dude are you crying and he's like fuck yeah he's like i did but there's nowhere to go i'm like it's okay we're gonna be fine we only got like another two and a half hours and about and then there's silence in the boat and you just hear the humming of the motor and all of a sudden I'm like, just like, it's okay, buddy.

4:36:37And then the potentiometer breaks and the boat's at full blast. He's like, how far do I go? I'm like, just go as far as you can. Crash and boat comes to the surface. I'm like, it's over. You know, I mean, it's like night after night of this just clown show. But, you know, you got to figure it out. Yeah. And guess what? You know, you're having this night the next night you're on dive soup and and you're sitting in the cold rain and you're watching the buoy and you're watching them figure it out you know and you're watching this you know what the show is down there that these guys are doing and and but what ends up happening is over time like pilots are this magical existence like when you find a good pilot is a unicorn it's like you know how to do this nobody else can do this and we had uh we had a couple amazing pilots uh and And yeah, I had some of the, one of the guys from the platoon who became my best friend of the platoon, Matt Leathers.

4:37:37And Matt was like, he was an alpha platoon from STV-1 with Mike Murphy and the guys from Red Wings. But he, when they split up the platoon, he went to Iraq, they went to Afghanistan. So his whole platoon dies and then he comes back. and Matt was he quite I think he was the most talented human being I've ever come across in my entire life first time I met Matt we get to we get to Pearl we're doing a bottom-up and he's not even a pilot at the time he's like and I'd never done a bottom-up he's like hop it I'll pilot I'll go with you and I don't even know who he is but I know that my chief doesn't like him he's like we're getting rid of him he's paying the ass he doesn't listen and he just you know he's on his own program so i'm like whatever so matt and i do this dive and we have this like bottom up and you can't see anything the the tides going out the ship's coming down and matt is that he's a magical pilot and we get done with this op and i'm just like dude like that was amazing like and i'm like hey we're keeping up and he could do anything he was an artist for disney when he was a kit like he could draw he would draw our platoon so i would i'm like matt you know something funny would happen and i'd be like draw a cartoon so you'd walk in somebody would fuck up and they'd walk in there would there be this like beautiful cartoon of you know somebody showing their ass and we kept this running tally of this and anything matt touched he could pull off one day he asked me he goes hey can i have uh friday off i want to go play this golf tournament up on the north shore and i'm like what i don't know you play golf he's like yeah yeah it's a it's a qualifier for the U.S.

4:39:15Open. I was like, okay. Like now I'm just morbidly curious. Like I didn't know. Okay. He comes in on Monday and I'm like, how'd you do? He's like, I won. I'm like, what? He's like, well, I didn't have a driver. So I had to use the driver out of the guy's bag that I was playing with. He's like, but he didn't mind. I'm like, wait, he's like, but I got, I didn't win because I didn't have a handicap and that guy had a five handicap, but I won like shot wise. And I'm just like dude you this is unbelievable and he decides he wants to learn how to play guitar and i'm like yeah good luck i've been doing this 20 years like he's playing as good as me you know and you know that we ended up you know we we were out there for about a year and Heather and I, you know, the SDB portion was that operational part I really enjoyed because it was different from the regular teams because you're all in that together.

4:40:16There's no good job. There's no like, there's no cush. Like every job sucks in an SDB platoon and everybody is sucking. So it was a very much like, there's only about 50 team guys out there, I think, at that command. But it's a huge command. And when we first got out there, Heather's pregnant. And she's like, I've got to find a place to live. And so McWater is my sponsor. She had taken orders out there, and she was out there. So we were staying with them, and we're looking all over the island. Like, I can't find a place to live. And Heather's getting pregnant and getting upset. She's like, I'm going home.

4:40:56Fuck the Navy. Fuck you. Like, we can't find a place to live. The BAH is high, but it's like you walk in, there's just mold. You couldn't find any place. And Commander Sass, who was my CO at the time, he's like, there's a place on Ford Island. You gotta go check it out. And there's all these historic homes on Ford Island that were actually in the movie In Harm's Way. John Wayne's house is from that movie. You can actually live in it as an officer housing. So I got there, and there's one duplex open. And so I go over to base housing, and I walk in. And mind you, it's like commander, commander, captain, captain, captain.

4:41:30And so I go into base housing and there's this Samoan woman, just stone-faced. And I was like, hi, I'm a JG. Like my wife's pregnant next to me. And I'm like, is there any way we could look at 4806 Yorktown Boulevard? And she goes, no. She just like laughs at me. And I'm like, she goes, pulls out her desk. And she goes, this is the waiting list of 4806. and it's just like a list of names. And they're all 04s, 05s. And she's like, you would be number like 42 on the list. And I'm like, and I'm in my khakis. You know, I'm just like, I'm like, please, can you help me? No. So we go back, Heather and I are fighting.

4:42:13She's like, screw this. I'm done. I'm gonna go back to Colorado. You call me when you're done with this Navy thing and we'll do this. So I go to the Navy exchange and I buy flowers and I go back to the housing and I walk in. I'm like, put her on her desk. I'm like, please, my wife is going to leave me. She's pregnant. This woman's like, no. I'm like, fuck. So I get in the car, I'm driving away. All of a sudden my phone rings and I answer it. I'm like, hello? And this is the same woman and she's like, giddy. She's like, is this a cute lieutenant that was just here? And I'm like, yeah. she's like i have a house for you at 4806 and i was just like sweet nice so she scores me this house and heather and i move in and you know we're doing the work up dive in like just learning this new tool which every day was just unbelievably it was just like comedy every day but really rewarding um and i love the team guys out there i love that unit and um it comes around her you And we're getting towards Christmas and she's getting ready to pop.

4:43:24And she's not worried about it. She's like, we're good. She's an athlete, division one athlete. She's like, we should pop this thing out and we're going to move on. And her due date comes and goes. And she starts going to labor. And I'm like, okay, we're 10 days late. This is good. Let's get this thing. Let's get it on. Labor starts kicking up like three hours, contractions like every three minutes. She's like puking bile. And I'm like, take her to the hospital. And they're like, she's not ready yet. She's not dilated enough. I'm like, listen, I've known this woman my whole life. And she's tougher than me.

4:44:04And this is not right. And the woman looks at me. She goes, it's called labor for a reason. It's supposed to be hard. Take her home. We go back two more times. Finally get her into the hospital. They break her water. She starts into labor. And I'm like, something's not right here. And one of the midwives comes in, the nurse midwife, and she's like, all right, start pushing. And Heather's pushing, nothing, nothing. So now we're at like 50 hours of labor. And now we're into five and a half hours of pushing. And my mother-in-law had flown out to be there, and she's a nurse. And I'm like watching, like my wife's badass, but I've never seen this amount of effort and pain.

4:44:51And now you see the whole nursing staff just start to get nervous. They start freaking out. All of a sudden, this one doctor walks in, and he goes, well, you're kind of too far along for this option, that option. I can't use that. I don't like to do forceps.

4:45:09And I'm like, wait. And they basically said, well, what do you want to do? And I'm like, find me somebody who can answer that question. like i'm not the guy you ask in this situation i want to ask you and i want you to have an answer you don't ask me so he leaves and this woman comes running in she's got her keys in her hand her starbucks she's like i can flip that baby and i was like you're hired and 54 hours later 54 hours of labor and six hours of pushing they break out their forceps and they're yanking my wife off the table when her her her vitals are plummeting i'm like and a flashing through my head i'm like i'm gonna be like my dad she's gonna die and i'm gonna have this baby and i'm watching my wife and my mother-in-law people start coming into the room and this pediatrician walks in he's like everybody stop who paged me baby's not born yet i want to know who paged me my mother-in-law and I was like, get out.

4:46:10You're either here to help her get out. My mother-in-law owns the room. She's like, you and you, you need to leave. You stay, you stay. They ripped the baby out of my wife and I stay with Heather. And I was like, I've never seen, I just come from Baghdad and all that shit. And I was like, I've never seen anything like that. And I've never seen a woman do that. My mother-in-law scooped up the baby and owned, she worked in Shriners Hospital for 30 years. She was fucking amazing. And I just sat there with my wife. I'm just like, well, that was easy. I'm like, holy fuck. 54 hours of labor and Lena was born.

4:47:03I've never seen anything like that, but I have to give my wife props on the next level. like tough as nails and then oh by the way hey we got a deployment so yeah i know we got a three month old but i'm gonna leave and during that time i'd screen for the command and i was like i got this boat job and they're offering it for platoon commander i'll take the book i'll see if i can get it uh that'd be kind of cool i like mobility let's you know i'm seeing a mobility kind of theme in my career. And now I'm checking the box on all the groups. I get group one, I get group three, I get group four. So major command for me is I got a lot of options.

4:47:46If you stay at a regular SEAL team as an officer, you're only going to command a regular team. But if you have SDVs and you can command an SDV group where you command, if you have boats, you can command boats. You have JSUG, command, command. The command is development group for those that don't know. Yeah, so major command. And I was like, wow, that's a cool opportunity, and that'd be good for my career. So I screened, and then we deploy. And that's the one thing I won't talk about. We did an NSDV mission, and it was, I will say, the highlight of my NSW career, hands down. Coolest thing I've ever done was sit in the slipstream of a nuclear submarine in a place you're not supposed to be and pull a monkey fist and fly away.

4:48:38And knowing that you're the only people in the world in that moment doing that job, that was the highlight. Coolest fucking thing ever. Yeah, man. So this is after you screen? Yeah. So we go on deployment after I screen, and we go blackout on deployment. No emails, nothing. No communication. And we surfaced the boat and, you know, antennas go up four months later, surfaced the boat and the download of emails pops in. Like sorting through emails. I'm like, oh shit, I got picked up. Oh, that's cool. Like, oh, orders came in. Oh, my wife has already moved. Oh, I started green team in five days. Holy shit.

4:49:25well like i'm looking there's tickets for me as i'm so i run down i pack all my the guys they help me pack up my stuff i they put me in the van they drive me to tumon they fill me full alcohol they drive me to the airport and i hug my platoon goodbye was the last time i saw matt hugged matt goodbye and hopped on a plane four days later flew to Hawaii. I checked out and flew to, uh, flew to Cleveland. My wife picked me up. She's like, what the fuck? I just had to pack up our house for the newborn, our dog. I just drove across the country with my mother and with my mom. Uh, I got us, I'm staying at the house.

4:50:11Uh, I found us a place, uh, in Virginia and you're going to start this new command. I was like, well it's a it's a it's a training command we're gonna take a break i'm just there to uh test boats and she's like whatever so again uh we get pregnant with walker and in that time frame it's it you know if you look at navy officers they get the kids are all two years apart because when you come back from deployments usually you got a window about five days and your wife still likes you so I start green team and uh welcome to the command five days after being on a sub uh for four months and we kick off uh green team 2008 and you know Heather didn't know what it was and I didn't tell her because we at the time we nobody I didn't even know it existed when I when I check into the command and they give you the brief and they're like seal team six I'm like, this is a joke.

4:51:14I was like, it's real? That's interesting. Yeah, and then nine months of green team, which was gray-green. So I'm doing the boat side. But the air portion is everybody's lumped together. And that's where it almost came to a screeching halt. Jonas Kelsa who was the troop commander on extortion he was in the class with me myself Nick Check a handful of guys from the class we all decided to float the Salt River on a weekend during green team and Jonas and I were the two officers and beforehand we're like all right we signed designated drivers and uh we signed designated drivers everybody gets in their tubes There's a bunch of alcohol.

4:52:08There's a middle of green team. You kind of threw that portion where you know you're going to make it, and everyone's ready to just take a wrap off. And we're floating the river. We get to the pole point, and Jonas and I are well tidied up. And so are our designated drivers. Looking around, we're just like, dude, you're a drunk trying to tell a guy. You're like, what were you doing?

4:52:32We're like, all right. So we pack everybody up and a couple, most of the leadership, a couple chiefs, myself, Jonas, our medic, Tori, and Nick. And we're hanging out. And there's no cell phone coverage. We're just like, all right, how are we going to get home? There's no Uber. This is like 2008. And Nick's like, dude, I didn't drink. Like, I'm fine. I'm like, no, we're not doing that. he's like, trust me, I can just, we got a pickup truck. We can pile everybody in. We'll go to stay on sale to the hotel. It'll be fine. I'm just like, Jonas and I are looking at each other. We're just like, Nick's a junior man.

4:53:14And I'm like, no, we're not doing this. This is a bad decision. And he's like, I'm fine, Pete. Like, all right, fuck it. We're gonna sleep out here. Hop in the car. We literally pull out of the parking lot and it's like, they pull us over and of course they scream they smell alcohol in the car because there was plenty of alcohol in the car and they give nick a test he passes the the field sobriety test and then he blows and he blows up the legal limit at 0.08 and they arrest him and i'm just like fuck so we get guys we go to the hotel we grab guys we go to the dui checkpoint we start making calls back to the command um or back to the green team cadre which is like hey this happened jonas and i are just like well that's it you know what i mean like i went in to see the head of green team he starts tearing into me and i was like hey i got it i take full responsibility like that like he's a good kid he was trying to do the right thing like it's me like i'm an officer like keep him but don't he he was trying to do the right thing and we put him in a bad position dismissed we finished we finished that portion of green team and i'm back and everybody's just kind of like waiting for the shoe to drop like what's going on all of a sudden the green team cadre's like hey get your camis on head up to the ceo's office and i was like here we go i get my camis on i get up there jonas is there his camis one of the other officers bloom there our chief bloom quick's there and uh we march in and it's commanding officer every squadron commander and every squadron command master chief and the ass chewing starts like what the fuck were you guys thinking just i mean like i've never been they were inventing words to call us i mean it was but to a certain point i was like jesus like this is the hands down the worst ass chewing i've ever forgotten.

4:55:19You go to Jonas, they go, what do you have to say for yourself? And Jonas is like, at this point in our careers, I should be able to trust my men. And he said he was good. And

4:55:29he was right. What Jonas said was right. And they just tore into him. And I'm like, Mr. Scobell, what do you have to say for yourself? And I was just like, I take full responsibility for petty officer checks, actions. He's a good kid. you can delegate authority you can't delegate responsibility like i i'll take take one like just keep him though he's a good kid and uh there's silence in the room like bloom what do you have to say he's like what he said it's more of an ass showing they're like all right get out of here and uh i thought that was a great time to throw out a classic line from top gun i was like hey Jonas you got that number of that truck driving school we might need that and the whole room erupts in laughter and we get outside and uh the head of green team comes out and he's got these non-punitive letters of reprimand and he hands them to Jonas and I and he's like get the fuck out of here like you just pull your shit together and Jonas you know we go back to training and we both make it through and uh it's it was that became kind of an interesting interaction they kept you know nick and um when i left my last day at the command i was we had moved to last day at the command i was leaving and i see neck on the quarter deck and he's like, hey man, where are you going?

4:57:05I was like, I'm leaving. It was at the post TBI stuff. I'm leaving, I'm going to the West Coast. He's like, dude. He's like, hey, he gives me a hug. He goes, I never got to thank you. He goes like, what you did, I love my job. I love coming to work every day. I really thank you. I was like, yeah, man. You're a great dude. And that was the last thing he said to me. And I always keep that letter of reprimand as a thing. After Nick had died, I went to two Navy SEAL Foundation events. One of them, this was probably five years ago, his girlfriend at the time walks up to me. He was dating at the time, Stephanie.

4:58:00And she goes, are you Pete Scobell? her and i said yeah um she goes nick left a list of people to thank and you were on it and i wanted to find nick's mother to ask me to if like you were one of the guys that i wanted to needed to tell that too and i was like what wow you know i that was like one of those like and I still talk to Stephanie keep in touch with her and she still I get chills when I think about that you know like Nick was number one man on the hostage rescue op that Ed Byers won the Medal of Honor was awarded the Medal of Honor for and he got shot coming through the door and

4:58:53I still like

4:58:57I'm glad he stopped me on the quarter deck though and said, thank you. But I had no idea that he had written, told his mother about it. And she thought to come make sure I was aware of it. So Nick's mother and Stephanie, thank you. That was a gift. That was a gift. Truly a gift.

4:59:29Anyways. Let's take a break, Pete. What's that? Let's take a break.

4:59:47All right, Pete. Back from the break. We're getting into your career over at Dev Group. Yep. And so you went to Gray Squadron. Yep. And I've never had a Gray Squadron guy on before. So can you describe to the audience what Gray Squadron is? Yeah. So Gray Squadron is a mobility component at the command. If it's got wheels or it floats, they drive it. And so each squadron has a component of gray squadron that's attached to it and supports all the underway, hostage rescue, ship takedowns, ground mobility elements, panders, what we used to have. I don't know if they have them anymore. They were using up armored six wheel vehicles.

5:00:35So if it has wheels and it moves and we get guys from point A to point B, that's what gray is. Okay. So it's the pain. It's the pain pain. So is gray attached to a specific squadron? There's a, each squadron has a gray troop attached to it. And so you're usually the fourth troop attached to each squadron. Yep. Who are you attached to? The first, at the beginning, I was attached to red, and then I stood up gray-blue. Okay. and so i was tested red when i first we first finished we were they had pulled all the seals out of uh gray and put them in the assault squadrons when afghanistan kicked off and then they gave the boats back to the swick guys and then they started bringing seal officers back in to expand grays gray went down to like port and starboard for a while because of the combat rotations and then they were bringing seals back into gray and that's how the job opportunity opened up for me to come over there and do my platoon commander in gray and so i thought well hell i'll just go over there early and and then i can you know do my time there um so yeah the gray portion of things is uh it's you know underways ship take towns like we have our NSW has a whole group that does all of our boats, any kind of drop-off, any kind of insertion and extraction.

5:02:10The great portion is we do airdrop, so we'll drop the entire package and do a four-boat drop with all the assaulters and take down a ship. So that's kind of like why the command exists really is to have that response element for the ground, whereas Delta originally existed for hostage rescue of airliner. So the core mission set was ship takedowns. So the grace piece was stood up in order to facilitate that for a helo assault force, boat assault force, or just a boat assault force. so uh we train to do uh and you know seeing the internet the boat drops so you're doing uh you know these boats are 25 000 pounds you're dropping from 8 000 feet you know at night on nods damn yeah it's a pretty it's one of the cooler things you'll ever experience is just watching a boat get ripped out of a c17 at 140 knots it's uh it's super intense how did it feel being over there uh being an officer over there it's like officer hell week every day there's always something spinning you're always planning for something um but it's it's it's it's a weird the weird command as officers you're not really welcome over there it's an enlisted man's command um you know you're kind of looked upon as like a short timer you know you're in he might do a rotation you go away and you come back it's a lot of times um guys don't spend you know you'll get a enlisted operator that'll spend you know 20 years over there whereas as an o you might spend a decade or so maybe 15 years but you're in and out you're not there for the long term it's a different relationship between officer enlisted over there i always thought interesting yeah interesting Interesting.

5:04:08What were some of the highlights of your career over there? So you mentioned the Captain Phillips mission. I had just gotten to the command and we'd finished up green team and Walker was born. Fortunately, quick birth, he came out like a grease pig, we joked around. And he was like, and - Second one usually does, right? Yeah, exactly. Lena paved the way. Walker was born and he was about two months old and I was heading into work and i remember just leaving my wife and the night before um we knew that the alabama had been taken but we were like what do we what do you want us to do they had left in the dinghy it was kind of like so we spun up and then it just kind of percolated and so we were kind of watching it like starting to starting to move in the planning session and then we just hit a pause because it was like we can't do anything with the dinghy went home i woke up the next morning and i I was like, hey, I'll grab some chicken.

5:05:08And I hopped in the car, headed into work, and I got there. And it was just like mass chaos. Like, dudes running everywhere. And they're like, get upstairs. So I threw my camis on and ran upstairs. And I walked in. And it was like, there's a joint staff on the VTC. And they're like, where's my gray? I literally walked in. Like, where's my gray? I was like, here? I just got to this command. Like, I didn't know anybody, really. I mean, I finished a green team. And it's like four months after that. It's like April. Damn, right off the bat, huh? Yeah. So I get over there and I'm like, what's going on?

5:05:37And we had two of our liaison officers who were two just rock stars. And they start feeding me intel, like pieces of paper, like, hey, basically he's in the dinghy. We got a shouldering ship. The Bainbridge is here. They're moving the boxer. And I'm like, okay, okay, okay. We have the package ready to go. Packages stand by of four boats that are rigged for drop. And you can be launched with a four-hour window anywhere in the world. with the C-17s. And I'm just like, okay. So, and at the time, the CEO was like, all right, tell them what the package is. I give the joint staff at the packages and we're just kind of holed up and we're doing the calculations and they're like, hey, we got to make a decision.

5:06:21Otherwise we're going to do a night drop. And they're trying to figure out like all those scenarios, right? Like, you know, okay, it's a dinghy, but he's getting close to shore. Are we going to go over the beach? And is he going to be taken ashore? And then we're going to do a full OTB hostage rescue mission. Like we were trying to figure out all of the contingencies at one time. And normally you have to pick. It's like, Hey, if we're doing a ship takedown, you have this gear. If you're doing a OTB takedown, you're going to do this gear. And there are different loadouts that go on the plane. And our CO at the time was like, we're taking it all.

5:06:55We're like, okay, like fucking A, we're taking it all. And we're taking the whole squadron and we're taking all of our support personnel and so you know you normally have just holy shit you guys are taking all of that yeah they didn't know you know like you're gonna get over there and like it's better to have and not need than to need and not have to the point where we started spinning up a third we spun up a third c17 and you know everybody's like we thought what was gonna happen is we're gonna spin up this is what always happens you spin up and it gets to a certain point and then they don't push the go button and then you spin back down and that's a constant that's why it's a constant cycle it's like a constant planning cycle at that place and that's why as an oh you're like walking in like all right we're gonna do this go figure this part out and you go back to your office and you start figuring out you walk upstairs you're like all right i got it and they're like scratch that we're gonna do this so it's like a constant you know churn for planning and you know hey listen if we want to do a day drop we have to leave we have to push the button now and joint staff was like all right go we're like holy shit this is easter sunday this is the day before the day before easter right we're a day before easter and so we just you know and when you watch the machine kick off it's like semis with boats and everybody's got their go bags packed and everybody's pulling armory guns the whole deal buses they're all numbered like this whole system is set into place and c-17s fly in you know my my my job you know i wasn't in charge of the whole lot i was in charge of getting everyone there i was in charge of the boat drop and you know we had at that point had never done a real full mission profile boat drop it was like it was always on the books i think they jumped in once before but it had never like gone all the way through with like a green light i think and so it was like holy shit this might this might happen but in the back of my head i'm like nah we're just gonna fly over and land in jibouti this thing's gonna resolve itself and we're gonna be in jibouti for like two weeks and then we're gonna fly home like that's what i that's what everybody was in everyone's mind and we were all like it's fucking easter man like like my wife already hates me now now i'm about to leave you know um and so we launched and we get in the air and it was i think it was like the heaviest lift in c-17 history i mean i remember when the plane took off and it was like screaming like dude we're gonna crash into the trees at the end it's gonna be the world's shortest mission like congratulations they're all dead anyways we we launch and we we head east and you know through this whole like workup phase everybody's just exhausted you know i mean you're planning and it's like pulling gear everyone's like how are we going and getting guys in the right planes and and we take off and soon as we take off you know you got a long flight and everybody just passes out and um i get us i fall asleep on one of my boats and i get shaking guy climbs up on my boat shaking i mean it's like tall it's like taller than the ceiling where I'm at.

5:10:05And a guy climbs up in my boat and shakes my foot. And this dude's like, hey, come with me. And he was one of the liaison officers, but he's wearing army camis. And there was another guy with long hair. And so he takes me up into the cockpit and he grabs the mission commander and he goes, tell him what you told me. And the guy goes, I lost comm, then I don't know where we're going. They just told me to fly east. We're like, what? What do you mean like we got like 10 million dollars for the common equipment here like i can figure it out he's like we're trying right now but we don't know where we're going the satellites were dedicated to you know they start going through the details of why we lost comms and i'm just like fucking and so my team leader at the time he comes up and he's standing next to me and he's like brought up an e-trex gps and i'm like the liaison officer myself and the and the army liaison as an officer we're looking at, we're like, and you remember the E-TREX GPS is just a fucking, like, about as base as it gets.

5:11:06It's like an outline of Africa. Yeah. You know, we're like, well, it was here, the boxer was here and it was going south at 18 knots. Like, so how many hours is that? We're doing time, speed, and distance. And the Air Force guy go, hey, we got a, we got a grid coordinate. We're good. And we kind of, we kind of take back and a fleet liaison officer being really smart, he copies it down real fast and he comes over to us and he goes, put it in the GPS. So we put it in. It's like dead center of Africa. And I got to go brief my skipper who's downstairs. And I'm just like, guys, I got to go tell him something.

5:11:40And I don't want to tell him this thing. And so we go literally on a E-TREX GPS and we're like, it's right about here. That's the drop zone. We're like, fly here. And the pilots are like, look, are you serious? were like, yeah, absolutely. And the army liaison officer is like, and he's like, do the calculations. And you're like, well, it's still going to be a night drop because we got to refuel over Saudi Arabia. And he's like, no, there's a refueling route over the Red Sea. And the pilot goes, well, I'm not authorized to use that. And he's like, you're fucking authorized right now. And I looked at the army guy, I'm like, fuck yeah, I like this dude.

5:12:18And so literally we did the calculations. It's like, we'll do a last light drop. And I'm like, okay. Because we had guys there were people that were free fall come qualified but they weren't operators you start doing a night drop with a bunch of guys that you know are qualified but not not like you're gonna kill people and i'm like this is not good and every we all knew it like this is not good we're taking admin people in and so at the still at the same time in the back of our heads are like we're gonna get diverted and land in jibuti so we all go back to sleep we wake up like hour and a half out they're like all right you gotta start prepping for drop we're like we're really gonna fucking do this like yeah you know i with the ceo plan master chief everybody's like all right start prepping so my guys start prepping we're pulling bags we start loading up the boats and there's scales underneath the boats and the load master that flew out with us is like he comes and grabs me he's like dude we're like 10 or not but 3 000 pounds per boat over the weight and i was like well how much fudge do we have?

5:13:18He's like, none. There's no fudge in this one. Like if those things go out, they're already 25 ,000 pounds. Like those things go out, those, you're going to lose the boats. And I'm like, well, that's not what I wanted to. So I used to, we climb up there. We're like, Hey, we got to start like scraping some gear off here. Like this is over the top. I remember at one point, one of my guys opens this Pelican case, this gigantic Pelican case. And inside of it is a fucking printer. Like this little HP printer. We're like, who brought the fucking printer like what is this i'm like take out the cartridge you can bring this it was one of the admin guys we just start ditching stuff and it got to the point where like we're right at the edge and so guys are like well i'll jump in my personal gear which is like we'll just rig it and all these guys i mean this is the best this is the best our guys jump like nobody jumps they jump you know 30 000 free falls a year nobody jumps as much as that command does and so we start rigging it and turns out one of the young comm guys who had just gone to like comm school and he did really well so he gets assigned to naval special warfare development group not knowing what it is he's on the watch bill and he's not jump qual and so we're like we'll just hand him him and i'm like this poor kid's like hey i i didn't sign up for this program and we're all kind of like we're looking at him and and we're all like looking at each other we're like well we got to fuck with the dude so of course the guy that's tandem tandem he's like i walk over and i'm like how you doing you know like they start putting the harness on them and they're just like don't worry this this works you know 30 40 of the time this kid's just like what like yeah we're doing this man and um and you know one of the other part that was funny about this was you know we had all these we had like 90 people on two planes right we're flying everybody over there and the shitter's backed up and so like the the first part of the drop was like you know the first first bags that go out of the plane or the the shit that clogged up the when we dropped the ramp and uh we see the boxer and i i was like i this is actually gonna happen and we start rigging for drop and the first thing that went through my mind was like dude i forgot to take the trash out like my wife is gonna be so i turned my team leader and i was like fuck and he's like what what do we forget like going through all the checklist i'm like i forgot to take the trash out my wife's gonna be pissed he's like dude you need to focus like this is happening and i'm like all right and i'm going i'll be number one man out of the plane i'm like fuck it you know like if this thing in back of my mind i'm like if you don't see four boats then i'm just not gonna pull my chute and burn this thing in because i don't want to answer for this shit show and um so we did the first pass was the boats And so what you do is the boats go, and then the boat drivers go.

5:16:11And then, you know, you free fall in, five-second hop and pop, and you start chasing your boat to the water. And when you get there, the boat's rigged up with a platform and they slide it out of the plane. And you cut that, and you sink it. You sink all the chutes. And you get in, you start your boats, and then you motor in the direction of the wind so the planes can come around and drop the assaulters in. We get down there and it went perfect. It was like the, I'd never done, I'd done like one boat drop before that. I just got through training. Like my second boat drop, I'm like, and everybody prior to that, it's like, nah, man, these things never work.

5:16:52One boat, we burn boats in. We've like, everything that can go wrong, will go wrong. And we get in the water and all four boats are there. I'm like, they're not going to start. You just drop these like super high speed, extremely expensive boats out of a plane at like 8 ,000 feet. like they're not gonna work and they work and motor in the line and then the pass comes by and it's 80 dudes and the light it just fills up the sky with blue shoots it was just like holy man and the boxer had the boxer was our the shouldering ship that we were jumping into And all the Marines were out there lined up watching this, like the arrival of us.

5:17:37And, you know, guys are piling in the boats and it was like, holy shit, we actually, this work, the boats, everything happened. I called in to the jock and said, hey, you know, I was at a hotel at the time, my call sign, like called in the JSOC, like all president accounted for. moving to the boxer and apparently you know the whole jock center lit up we're just cheering we're like i think most of the team guys are like fuck it i can't believe that actually worked you know what i mean like a lot of moving parts in that we got there and we have to now we get into if you're craning the boats on and we have another drop we're bringing more boats we're bringing zodiacs we're bringing lawyers like they start moving heaven and earth immediately they send the snipers over to the Bainbridge.

5:18:29And we had another contingent that had jumped in. Jonas actually had jumped in with a handful of guys from Africa to the Bainbridge. And our guys all linked up on the Bainbridge and started getting eyes on the dinghy.

5:18:45My portion of the story, from where I was, I was on the Boxer. And at that point, we start planning for how are we going to assault a dinghy? What's the boxer? It's a flat top Navy ship. It's an amphibious ship. Okay. With helicopters. So it looks like an aircraft carrier, but it's a flat top. And so we start planning for an assault. Like, like, so you know, a bunch of guys sit around, like, how do we assault a dinghy? Like, what are we going to do to like, how is this going to facilitate this? And the snipers are over on the Bainbridge and a handful of, handful of operators are over there. and i think that was the point i think richard phillips talks about this where he all of a sudden one of the boats from the bainbridge shows up and he looks up and he sees one of our guys which is a stark contrast to what he had been seeing from the regular fleet guys it's just like here's a dude with this massive beard like gigantic neanderthal covered in tattoos and he's like, hi, sir.

5:19:47And he was like, oh, like the Calvary's here. And those guys, I think what was amazing was that was like, we were trying to figure out like, okay, what do we do? And at one point the plan had come down to us from up high that we were going to ram the dinghy. So we were going to take two boats. I was going to drive one, and we were going to put snipers in the other. And I was going to drive at the boat, the dinghy he was in, hit it, and roll it because they right themselves. So I would crash my boat into it, roll it. And the idea with doing that was we would knock the, disarm the pirates and knock them all over the place.

5:20:33We knew that Captain Phillips was taped to the pole in the middle. Like, he'll be okay. There's just going to be a shit show in there. and then the second boat was going to quickly roll up on it with snipers and board and take out the pirates so that was like our that's what we're doing like like but meanwhile the guys that were on scene they had hooked up the boat and they started reeling it in and you know you got to remember like we don't know what's going on outside we don't we don't know what the news is saying we're just like dude it's fucking easter and i want to get home right like these guys are all like you know multiple combat rotations like this is not a big problem for us right like this is like what what the fuck are we here for was really the overarching like this is kind of crazy because it you know i we thought when we dropped in like okay it's going to go to shore and then he's going to be held on shore and then now we have this is our bread and butter man that's crazy that you guys had that attitude i mean it wound up being such an iconic event you know i think at the time it wasn't nobody thought it was iconic because you know they started reeling the guys in and one of the pirates that he had been stabbed on the on the maresk by the crew and his wound started to fester and he was like the leader and they were like do you want medical care and when he bowed out he's like yeah i want medical care and they brought him on board then it was his three like underlings that didn't have any idea like they were just kind of like what do we do now Like our leader is gone.

5:22:05So wait a minute. You did what? You brought him on the boat to give him medical care? Right. So what they initially said was, hey, you guys don't want to go to shore here. You're in the enemy tribe. How are you communicating with them? They would just go over and talk with them face to face. They'd take a boat from the Bainbridge over and say, hey, listen, you don't want to go shore here. You're out of gas. We'll tow you south. and then you can go ashore there, but we're going to help you out. We're your friends. And they were like, okay. So that's how they got the hookup. And then, you know, that guy was, the lead pyro was wounded and he was, you know, I guess he started to plummet, you know, this now you were in like, we're day three or something.

5:22:51So he'd been out there for a while and he had a knife wound. And so he was starting to like, Hey, this is not good. Getting infected. Like he's nervous you know he's he's plummeting and so they were going out taking medical care talking hey how can we help you you know trying to liaise and and make this like a peaceful just quit just just quit and give us our guy back and then you can go free kind of scenario so it really wasn't i mean we were stoked that we did the drop and everybody was just like fuck yeah that was cool like okay now what do we do and so snipers started reeling them in and they got them within like 25 yards and when the head when the lead pirate got off uh now you have the three his three underlings and one guy's head one guy had his head out of the uh the opening the front of the hatch one guy kept sticking his head out of the side to see what was going on the third guy I was in the pilot house and you know, the snipers at the time were like, let's just end this.

5:23:56And the seal that was there was like, yeah, man, do it. They took the shot and it, you know, took out the pirates. And then one of the seals jumped on the cable and like, like fireman's crawled down the cable, which I thought was the most, the most bad-ass thing that happened during that was like holy shit like he fireman's crawled just like buds done the down the uh slide for life he pulled the slide for life slide down the cable this big ass you know navy tow cable covered in grease and got on board and you know secured certain cured cam phillips wait a minute how many shots was it well a lot more than three i mean when i i when we got the boat back there was I want to say they each guy got maybe three and it wasn't like it wasn't one it wasn't one simultaneous shot three snipers no I mean simultaneous but it was I think a handful of rounds I mean you got you're on nods it was at night yeah so you got your apt heels your lasers are on nods snipers dialed in was not a they made it out to be this like like you know obama was like oh my god like i was on the radio and that was three two one and they made these miraculous shots they were great shots i mean awesome shots um and they did but i think at the time the guys were just like let's get this over with that was my take on it you know i mean guys were it was easter wasn't like fucking easter and i'm here and i want to be at home and so you know it was done and we're like let's get the out of dodge and then they started spinning like hey we got all these other ships out here let's start you know let's start planning and picking them off and we were like oh god and that all got kanked and we ended up flying off the boxer and then you know the the the route home we flew were you on board when phillips came back yeah how did how was he dude he looked like i was there when he when we brought him off the helicopter and brought him in and he was deer in headlights man he was just like and when i saw him after that he came out to you know kind of thank us and walk around and check out all the equipment we had brought the dinghy up onto the deck of the boxer and and he was just very like he was very thankful he was like i think he snapped out of it and was just like holy shit you guys you guys did this for me i think he said it and he took pictures with everybody and he was just very gracious um he was a really nice guy but when he first got on board i was like that dude is he is you know stockholm syndrome he was he was a hurting man um it was it was a it was a pretty amazing feeling like when when it all wrapped up we were just like wow like everyone i can't believe we just pulled that off like like we are pretty cool and we're stuck on the boxer and then and so this is where it all went downhill in my opinion we're stuck on the boxer and we're watching cnn uh on the big screen and And Vice President Biden at the time gets up there and he goes, man, those he's like, the guys from SEAL Team Six did a great job.

5:27:33And we were all like, did he just say that? I know, really, it was like this moment in the room where we were like, dude, what the fuck? And in my mind, all of our opsec and everything from the teams, that was a moment that went out the window. it was like when the vice president just blurted it out like hey guys from shield team six did a great job it was just like in my mind that was the downfall of our it just everything came unraveled after that um you know i wouldn't be here talking about it if that hadn't happened you know what i mean yeah it was like

5:28:17yeah so and then we're still on the boxer and then there's a south park episode that comes out of, you know, dude, like, South McCartman shooting somebody off the fan tail of a Navy destroyer. I'm just like, I was like, this really escalated. This went from, like, within, like, four days, you know, my wife thinks I work at a training command to Cartman? Like, all in one thing? And, you know, what was interesting was, like, you know, we're getting home. And we flew to Mumbai and then we flew to Qatar and we started standing up a new school, a new task force. And then I flew to Balot and I spent another, I don't know, another month gone.

5:29:02No shit. Yeah. And so that turned into me like working to help stand up a new task force for that area of the world. It was like shit moves fast in that place, man. and hey you're you're you're you're all the other officers were in the squadron they're just like hey great guy you go and so i end up in balad wearing the same pair of pants for the next you know next month plus uh you know doing task force shit what are you doing over there we were just standing up a new task force for the horn of africa and that's where a lot of the you know missions after that came from it was like a division like okay now the the wars the war was shifting gears at that point it was like hey afghanistan the iraq is and you know a lot of the horn of africa and al-shabaab and uh you know iq uh aq um yemen um arabian peninsula aqap those guys were all standing up and just the shit got it was like the war was shifting they knew like we we owned iraq and afghanistan so now they started to play out into eastern africa and somalia and so you know operations went there post post that um i came back from that and of course my wife was like what else what else are you gonna tell me what's next i was just like um i gotta go back to afghanistan uh got another rotation coming up in about a year from then so and my job was to take these the swick guys and teach them ground mobility and then take them over and we're going to drive trucks these panders in afghanistan and so we you know we went and we stood up a full ground mobility component with swick guys and they were fucking awesome right on man they were fucking awesome man i was so proud My team leaders, they just, they're unbelievable.

5:31:08But, you know, we start, we took, I took all the mobility stuff that, you know, we'd created. And, you know, this was new. It was like, let's fucking figure it out. And the SWCC guys were the perfect guys to do it. And so we did that workup. But during that, we're still driving the boats. So we have still to maintain our capabilities to drive the boats. and you're doing 40 knots and 10 foot seas. We've done testing on those boats and that's where you do 40 knots and 10 foot seas, the G forces are astronomical. 69, 70 Gs per hit. And you're wearing your nods, you're wearing your helmets. And we came back from that and we're doing regular workups and training.

5:31:52One night I was out. Normally we were short people, so I would throttle a boat. We had three guys that drive it. It's like professional offshore racing boats. And we had a new guy and I was like, hey, let's get him, teach him some throttling. And I was working on talking to, we had a P3 over that night. So I was like, hey, I'll work on some C2 stuff and hitting the radio. And we stuffed the boat, which is essentially like he timed it wrong. And the bow of the boat went through a wave. And so you go from 40 knots to underwater and stopped in a matter of seconds. And I woke up in the back of the boat and I had sheared off my night vision goggles.

5:32:31I slammed my face on the board on the transom that was there. And I had been knocked out and I didn't know how long. And we were 26 miles out to sea. And I called all stop. They were like, you okay? And I was like, no. I mean, I was fucked up. And my team leader was like, well, you got two options. We can medevac you or we can finish our run. And I was like, fuck it. Let's just keep going. and we're big seas at night. And I don't know how many more concussions I got. It was like, and that was one of the most, that was a really pivotal moment for me from a concussion standpoint, because, and then the injury started.

5:33:18I had, I got three herniated discs in my neck that night. And I got in my, I don't know how long I was out. And then the cognitive deficits started in. like like i couldn't i was driving to work without even knowing where i was going i was vertigo i was throwing up randomly like i'd be sitting in a brief and be like excuse me go out puke come back in and i'm just like holy fuck this is but what are you going to do for a concussion you know back then it was just like just you charlie might keep going and um so we we worked up and we redeployed to Afghanistan and we took the ground mobility component.

5:34:01That's when I was in, deployed to Jalalabad and I was assistant strike force commander. We had a troop out there, we had the helos and we had our panders and the rangers. And we had a few of the omegas under our command and we were conducting ops in Northeast Afghanistan. And it was like, hey, bring in these new mobility guys over and you know the team guys they want to fly they don't want to ride you want to get id'd um we weren't friends of the they were just like dude we want to go near you guys and you know during that rotation it was really that was a that was an interesting one because we started to win favor first with the rangers um we had a ranger platoon there um our guys shuttled up to Masary Sharif and left me down in Jalalabad with a troop that was spread out at the Omegas.

5:35:03And then I had my Panders and my Rangers. And we just started hitting targets. And so we started going out and we went out. We had a lot of success. Rangers were fantastic. they were really great guys man um and was like well we got this i pitched it as we're brown on the ground like where do you want to go where's the target we'll drop you off extract set security you know i had marfleers i had uh automatic weapon systems uh you know basically joysticks um 50 cals 40 mike mics armored like let's let's get after it and uh we just started hitting a bunch of targets with the Rangers. And they were, those guys are awesome, man.

5:35:50Those guys were absolutely phenomenal. I've been blessed. Every unit I've worked with, and I've got to work with a lot of units and see a lot of different parts of NSW and a lot of different parts of the military, every one of them was awesome. And the Rangers are no, no, no, no, those guys were rock stars, man. I was working out with them every night. And they were good to go. They were young. That's the big difference I found. With the SEAL, you've got a 35-year-old guy who's a lot of combat at that point. Our guys had a lot of combat experience at that point. I mean, a lot. And the Rangers were young kids who just wanted to get dirty.

5:36:30And they were willing to sit in the back of a pander. They were willing to do the hard work. And so we got a lot of work during that time.

5:36:44um one of the last stops i went on um actually not last stop but it was around christmas christmas eve actually we pulled all of our guys together at a in a bad and there was a reports of aq fighters that had come across the border and were storing um all kinds of fertilizer like thousands of pounds of fertilizer, IED parts up in this remote area north of Asadabad. And the road to get up there, no one in the army would go on because at the time they were putting IEDs in the wall and it was along a river, like the Colorado River, not a small river. And they had blown a bunch of army humvees into the river.

5:37:34And so beyond a certain point, was like we're not going up there and the troop commander at the time came to me was like dude do you think you we can get the panders up there and i was like yeah we can do that and so we headed up we pulled the whole troop of uh assaulters they all met up in uh abad and i took my guys and we drove up and on that drive i had my sit in the back i was uh sitting over the middle wheel and i had my helmet off and it's a quick we drive really fast blacked out and the the idea being by time you hear us we're past you you know the faster you go the better off you are and no lights don't don't acknowledge it so we're hauling ass and it was really quiet at that point it's christmas it's around around christmas and just you know december everything slows down in afghanistan and fucking ied goes off underneath my seat like my my seat and it blows me straight up and i fucking hit my head and i got knocked out and we were like what the fuck and i just kind of you know everyone's like and it's just me uh my calm guy i don't have any assaulters in the car so it's me my calm guy and my um my weapons guy who's here and here and then we had one of the drivers um and he's in his little driver's seat in a pander it's like it's a six-wheeled up armored vehicle and the driver's got like this little like he sticks his head out and and he's all bullet blue grass glass around him a automatic weapon systems on top and the thing went off underneath my seat and i mean i was just like what the fuck and we're still rolling and it turned out it just blew that tire so the tire that i'm sitting on was shredded and and i don't know if it was i'm guessing it was an id or it was an rpg i don't know but it hit that tire that i was sitting on and blew me straight up and knocked me out we pull into abad and they're just like what's going on i'm like fuck dude just got id'd um my guys being the rock stars that they were tire off tire back on.

5:39:49We have spare with us. They're like, everything's good to go. The tire's shredded and the rim's fucked, but we're still operational. I'm like, all right, we're going. Charlie, Mike, let's go. So we load up the Salters and we head up into this fucking... It was like the worst area you could go into. No one had driven up there. The Pandas are already wide as they are. and you have a straight cliff on one side, a straight cliff on the other side going up, one going down, one going up. And the river is raging. And I'm just like, and we're trying to navigate, you know, all of our panders into this area with the assaulters.

5:40:31We get to a, like, we found a little area to pull the vehicles in. We start turning them around for exfil. And then we put up our marfleers to be, basically we have these pneumatic poles that would extend up with Marfleet so we could watch the assaulters and go in. And we had our RWS systems, remote weapon systems that we could overwatch on. We had great success with those things. I could, it was like having a sniper because it would do windage and elevation instantly with the joystick. You just basically like, we had engaged, we had engaged guys up on the ridgeline during an assault at a thousand yards and they had RPGs and they were sitting on a ridgeline watching us.

5:41:12and my guys found them and i was like yeah go for it like single shot knocking these guys off wow originally i mean these are the rwf systems were fucking amazing so we start doing overwatch and salters hit the target uh start they call troops in contact and then the ground the gfc just starts dropping bombs and dude he dropped like 20 000 pounds ordinance on these fuckers and And there were 18 guys up there, I think 18 or 19 guys, and they killed them all. And so now we just dropped 20 ,000 pounds of ordnance. There's one way in, one way out. We just let everybody know that we're there. We've got planes flying overhead.

5:42:01Everybody asks over tea kettle back to the panders, and we're trying to get out of there as fast as we can. And get on the radio and our command element says, you guys got to stop at the FOB to do a battle space handoff. I'm like, what? Like the little army outpost that's up there. You got to go tell them what you did. And I was like, and the ground force commander, I look at each other like, that's a fucking horrible idea. We need to get out of here as fast as we can because there's only one road. Like this is not a smart idea. They're like non-negotiable battle space handoff. so we pull in and we got another flat tire so my guys fucking back at it pull that tire off myself and the ground force commander run in we wake up this guy he's in his like you know his ranger panties and t-shirt and he's like why the fuck are you guys here we're like we have to do a battle space handoff he's like okay thanks like get out of here we're like okay yeah well they're uh they're all dead it's just like it's bad we need to leave i mean that was pretty much the extent of it like pile back in the panders and we head out and come around a corner and about 25 fighters had set up an ambush on us and the first i was looking at this i'm looking through the thing and i watched the first rpg fly by my driver head i saw the like i was like oh fuck and over the radio they're like contact right and i turned my i'm i'm sitting across from the the gfc um the other the assault troop commander and i'm like fuck and i turn to my combat i'm like call it in dude and he calls in troops in contact and our guys just went to fucking town like this unbelievable maneuvering and rws systems fly over and i had a 40 mike mike on mine and i've watched i watched a dude pop up with an rpg and my my gunner shot him in the chest with an rpg i mean started in the chest with a 40 mic mic grenade wow because you know everyone you can hear the 50s going off and all the other vehicles and all the gunfire i mean it was just like holy fuck and i look at the rws screen and i i'm like and he's zooming in on this dude and i'm like we got a 40 mic mic and he hits the guy and it's just like white on the screen and the dude just disappears and we we slow down clear the area and i'm like hey do we want to set security and we're like fuck no blow through and so we blow through we pull into um we pull into sondabad we get out and the fucking panders are just fucking peppered like our guys get out and you know the salters i remember that the troop chief just looks at me and he was just like he just nodded he's like fuck yeah man like he was one of the guys who was like, fuck no, I'm never getting in the pander.

5:45:11Like, I'm not getting in with you guys. It was SWCC guys. He was like, your boys are fucking good, man. And I was, I was, I walked in and every single assaulter was like, dude, that, I hated those things beforehand. I'm a change man. And I was so proud of my, my troop that night. I was like, these young SWCC guys never been in combat, never been in engagement. And I, and I walked out and they were just like holy fuck sir i was like well done man that's awesome man i was to me i was like that's that was nsw at its finest like it was really i was so proud of them that night they were like well this they were kind of freaking out you know because you start you get out and you start looking at the vehicles and you're like that's a lot of rounds like those are a lot of guys and it turns out uh we got uh the the fob guys like two days later they're like yeah there was another 25 enemy kia at the ambush site no shit yeah i was like dudes welcome to the show man uh and that was christmas eve that was christmas christmas eve wow christmas eve um Um, you know, the, we, we did a bunch of, a bunch of, uh, and then ops picked up with the Rangers after that.

5:46:33We did a, we worked with some of the agency guys out of some of the, um, Omegas word got around. Um, and then the, the, one of the ops that kind of turned me sour, um, my guys were up at Omega 60, uh, sighting in cause we had a range up there. They're sighting in the panders and I was down at J bad and I had the Rangers with me and selector pop for a guy who was a 23 year old taliban sub commander and it was outside of and i was like what the fuck is this 23 what's it what is a 23 year old anybody like in there anyways it was an area that had been ied all the time army didn't go in anymore this guy was in there and that's why he didn't he was like nobody's gonna come get me and the jock says hey hey, man, send the panders and the rangers.

5:47:22And I went, I went to the headshot. I'm like, hey, this is like, we got storms. I got no cast. I got no, I got no meta back. I got JDM through the clouds. I mean, like we're fucking hanging it out there. And this is like IED central. And they're like, so go. And I'm like, what are we doing? Like, I'm okay with this, but what are we doing? but this is a Taliban, 23-year-old Taliban subcommander. I take one catastrophic IED. I'm killing 15 Rangers and four of my guys. And in my mind, I'm like, is the juice worth the squeeze? I got no medevac. I got no kazevac, and I got no close air support. And they were just like, fucking go.

5:48:07All right. So I scramble a C-130. I get the Rangers. We load up in J-BAD. my guys are in in omega 60 they hightail it down to bagram we meet in a hangar c-130 pulls up we literally i have chalk and we plan the i pull up my computer and we fucking we look at the target i got the ranger gfc i'm like all right i'm gonna drop you off here we're gonna go here this is what we got we roll in there and the fucking rangers crushed it it was fucked up was super channelized terrain. The RWS systems were worthless. The walls were taller than the guns. So we just literally drove in. And I remember this whole time, just had this sick feeling.

5:48:49I'm just like, dude, this is it. I've rolled the dice so many times in my life. Like, this is it. Fortunately, nothing happened. We grabbed the dude and we get out of there. We get back to Bagram. And I'm just like, oh, fuck. Good. I lay down about 20 minutes. I've been up for 48 hours scrambling this thing i go into the jock mcraven's there and i'm with the young ranger captain and uh mcraven's like gentlemen great political victory tonight and i was like that's an interesting thing to say i was like whoa what's with the guy listen he's really his father is really close to karzai we let him go but we got a lot of we got a lot of uh political clout from this one a lot of leverage and i think i'm not very good at hiding my emotions i was like what the fuck you know what i mean it was like that moment i'm like and in my mind yes i i'm a soldier i follow orders i don't i do what i'm supposed to do but in my mind i was like not one of those guys lives is worth these guys are highly trained every single ranger every single swick guy every single seal like they're treasures i'm like what are we doing you know what i mean i just had this moment where i was like and that was part of my like okay i don't know i don't know if this is where i want to be anymore i just didn't know how to rationalize it.

5:50:19We come back from that and the last stop I go on, Omega 60 calls me and there's a team guy up there. Hey, can you guys come up, do mobility for us? We got some of the Mohawks or something, the Indige for us. We were going to go out with some of the agency guys and hit this target. And I was like, yeah, sure. So I go up there and the seal that was there, super squared away a guy really good uh senior enlisted um young guy his name is sean and um that night we go out and getting a little a little engaged but nothing crazy um but we had the uh agency guy in our vehicle with us and we weren't driving the panders this time we were driving uh we went out in the hiluxes we i just took my guys up there to do the mobility portion for them it was kind of cool that they were they thought that highly of us that they would say hey come on and do this anyways we go we come back from that op and i'm sitting with sean we're kind of like laughing and he's hands me the aar from the from the op and i'm like dude who is this guy he's like fucking rambo and he's like that was a dude that was hiding in the back of our in the back seat of the hylux who never got out and i was like what and so i just i just start laughing i'm just like whatever everybody was writing themselves up for all you know it was like how do you get promoted And it was in every aspect.

5:51:44It was like numbers. And it just felt like, it just felt wrong. You know what I mean? It just felt wrong. And Sean and I laugh about it. And I was like, dude, where are you from? I didn't really know him in the squadron. We'd known each other. And he's like, I'm from this little town in Pennsylvania. I'm like, me too. He's like, oh yeah, where? And I'm like, I'm from Erie. He's like, I'm from Warren. I'm like, dude, we're like 20 minutes apart. And we start chatting. and he goes, yeah, man, I used to ski at Peak and Peak. And I'm like, you used to ski at Peak? I used to ski at Peak and Peak. That's nuts, man.

5:52:20We probably rode the same lift together riding our Carhartt Warriors ripping around the mountains. And yeah, I used to fish in Lake Erie, trout and perch, or perch and walleye. I'm like, that's crazy. That was the last stop I go on. I fly home after that. And that's when the wheels, I mean, my, the tbi stuff starts bad like bad i'm driving to work without even i was on a sunday i was sitting in the parking lot at the command and i'm like i don't know why i'm here and my wife calls me she's like you left an hour ago you were supposed to get diapers and i'm like shit fuck well fuck it and i was getting i was getting vertigo all the time and then i'm like well maybe it's sea legs because we're you know we come back from rotation you're immediately back out on the boat i'm like oh maybe i'm just getting sea legs and then these headaches started like unbelievable headaches splitting and i'm just like okay i'm start taking excedrin by like the handful and my back i'm going into portsmouth to get uh pain injections at the pain clinic where they inject it into your spine um and my back pain my neck pain my head i'm just kind of like holy fuck this is and my behavior goes to shit i'm missing meetings i'm like i'm a fucking mess and and i'm i'm feeling like i'm feeling like something's something's coming apart but i'm like fuck it you just keep going you just keep you just keep going and then my friend walt knocks on my door he's like hey man this friday he goes you're gonna start green team on monday and uh we're just gonna get you through assaults and then you're gonna go take troop up on the second deck and i was like monday i'm like dude i'm i'm i'm still in my troop commander job here i'm like i can't just leave and go do that like you're fine already got covered with your boss everything's gonna be good you just needed to get through assaults and i'm just like physically i'm fucking shot i don't know what's going on and i'm kind of losing my mind i couldn't even read emails i just delete all my emails that's what i do exactly so i'm just like the fucking shit's going south but okay you know what i'm on the ride what are we doing next let's go to green team and um so i show up and i know all the guys i've been at the command for four years you know everyone knows me i've been there buddies with everyone they're like what are you doing i'm like i gotta go through assaults again and but i'm getting like my gut is like this is bad like i don't want to go to the second deck not because i don't want to operate but because like i'm not gonna get somebody fucking killed like i can't even like control myself right now we start doing get through the first week of assaults every night i'm going back and i'm doing troop commander work the best that I can, which my troop chief was just like, dude, what the fuck is going on with you?

5:55:26And I'm like, ah, it's fine. And we head out to, I think it was like third week of assaults. And I couldn't remember, in four man entries, I couldn't remember which way I was gonna go. And so I would sit there and I was wearing Solomon's and I would count the things and I'm like, left right i'm going left so i would put a rock in my left shoe i'm like that's how fucked up my brain was and my my cousin was running assaults and everybody thought he's like i have peach is gonna fucking breeze through here and my cousin's like what the fuck dude like you're a mess and i'm like like something that was very easy before i was really fucked up that we three they pulled me aside and they're just like my friend walt's like hey man i fucked you over i you this is bad timing for you and i'm like yeah and they dropped me and i'm like and we got in the car and on the ride home I turned to Walt and I told him everything I'm like dude I'm happy right now because like something's fucked up with me like I I don't know what it is I've never been here before but like this is a good thing and they're like well just just finish out your time heal up we'll reload you next year and I went back and I wrote my letter of resignation oh shit and I of walked out and put it in and heather left she moved back up to pennsylvania and we bought a house up in erie and i was just kind of riding out my time and i moved in with morgan motrell and i was just kind of limping through like hey how long am i going to be here time to get out you know they put me in an ops job i was just like ah all right pete's off the fucking off the train and but i was getting worse and when i started drinking like just to go to sleep at night i was drinking glassfuls of jack daniels because my my back pain was just unbelievable my arm my left arm was numb i couldn't even play couldn't play any music couldn't think i was driving play i've been morgan finally says to me he had been in a helicopter crash and he'd gone through nico national intrepid center of excellence he was the first seal to go there and living with him and he's watching me in the kitchen he goes dude you got fucking tbi you need to go to nyco and i was like what the fuck is tbi and what's nyco he's like i've been watching you for three weeks and you you like you you can't sleep for your headaches you you like you quite literally can't hold a conversation i'll start a conversation with you and then you'll walk away like you walk out of the house four times to want you come back in to get your badge your wallet your keys like you'll forget where we're driving when we're driving in the car he's like dude you you're fucked up and i was like yeah but i went to see this psych at the command and he goes well you're just like everybody else man like and i'm like thinking of myself i'm like everybody else is yeah i'm like okay all right well fuck it and i remember sitting thinking to myself like okay i had a great career you know i'm lucky i'm lucky to be alive we lost a lot of you know a lot of lost our friends and all this stuff i'm like maybe it's just time to you know if this is the end of the road and this was the price that i paid then okay i'm losing my mind and um getting ready to get out and we're just when this happened And Morgan gives me a brochure for NICO.

5:59:22And I walk into medical and Matt Hickey is the commander. He was a Naval Academy grad and went to med school, became a doctor. And he was the DMO at the command. And I walked in, I sat on his desk and I was like, I need help. And he's like, he was checking in. He just dropped everything and he sat me down and he goes, what is this? And I was like, I don't know what's going on. And I just like dumped it on him. Matt calls the detailer, pulls my resignation. He's like, he's not getting out yet. I can't let him out. He's not medically, he's fucked up. He calls up to Nyko. I got a guy, need to get him in.

5:59:56What are you? What do you do there? Talks to Jim Kelly, the physician in charge. And this July, they're like, beginning of July, they're like, you got a slot to go to Nyko on August 1st. And I'm like, I'll try anything. And so, head up. Did your wife notice on any of this stuff? Oh, yeah. She was just like, she was confiding, I think, in her mom a lot. But she's like, she would watch me do shit. And I was like, she's like, you weren't in there. Like, you were there, but you weren't in there. Like, it wasn't, you didn't come home and pick up a guitar and play. You were, like, absent from the kids.

6:00:42she had moved to Erie and Tanner was born my third son and like I wasn't holding him and she's like like I held I'm like I'm I love my kids like every second I get to be with my children I'm like picking them up carrying them around hugging them like and I didn't hold Tanner and she was like what's wrong with you and I'm like I don't know and then I started and my drinking was just going through the roof. And I'm going to this Nyko place. I don't know what it is. I'm going to try this. So I check into Nyko first day. And they sit me in this room, walk me in the room. There's 12 doctors, there's nutritionists, everybody in the room.

6:01:26And they have my medical record out. And they go, tell us your story. And Dr. Jim Kelly was sitting across from me. He goes, listen, part of the problem here is it's disconnected. What we're going to do is we're going to, as a team, we're going to analyze your story so you only have to tell it one time and walk us through this. And so I sat in there for hours and talked them through the story, and then they start scheduling appointments for me. And over the next month, I got 93 doctor's appointments, and I got five MRIs in my brain. And Jim would sit me down and say, let's talk about what TBI is and what was happening, explain to me how my brain worked.

6:02:07And so I started building a brief. I'm like, because the last words from the psych were, well, you're just like everybody else. And I'm like, well, if everybody else is going through this and there's an answer, then they need to know about it. And Jim was a great teacher. And so he's like, hey, listen, my brain, it's think of your brain like a city. You got gray matter are the buildings, white matter of the streets and the sidewalk. Information travels on that. And when you pass energy through the cortex of your brain, it's like an earthquake. So if you were to fly over Washington DC on September 11th, you look down and you saw the Pentagon.

6:02:49That's a sports concussion. That's Troy Aikman. You can rewind it, see where you got hit. You can say, hey, this part of the brain, this is what the cognitive deficits might be from this type of injury. He goes, but with you guys, later on, I was in Washington, D.C. on August 23rd in Jonas's funeral when the earthquake hit and the building shaking. There was plaster falling off the ceilings. Well, after the earthquake, you'd fly over Washington, D.C. and you'd think everything was all right, but the damage was actually in an order of magnitude greater because it was passing energy through the region.

6:03:24There were cracks in the sidewalks. There was cracks in the Washington Monument. There was infrastructure damage that you couldn't tell. He's like, that's the same thing for blasts, that's passing through the energy of your cortex, your brain. It's damaging all those streets and sidewalks. And now information has got to take detours. That's why you got a sweet tooth. That's why you're drinking massive amounts of caffeine. Everything is difficult for you. You've lost words, your headaches. He goes, and what we found is that, so when your brain is injured, the white matter is injured in your brain, your brain releases stem cells to repair the white matter.

6:03:58But stem cells are killed off by cortisol and adrenaline. And he goes, the major producers of cortisol and adrenaline are lack of level three sleep, chronic pain and chronic, I'm sorry, chronic pain, chronic uh like a level three and four sleep and um um

6:04:22I've said this like 10 ,000 times. Chronic pain, lack of level three and four sleep. Memory loss. Memory loss. Yeah. It'll come back to me in a second. Anyways, you guys live in this perfect storm where you flip-flop your circadian rhythms. Oh, stress. High levels of stress. So high levels of stress, lack of level three and four sleep and chronic pain. He goes, all you guys are injured. You got some kind of neck, back. He's like, your neck, your back, your body's producing high levels of cortisol. You've fucked up your sleep because you're up all night and then you sleep all day. And I wasn't sleeping at all.

6:04:59The only way I would fall asleep is if I chugged a bunch of alcohol or took some Ambien and you pass out. He goes, and then you're in chronic stress. You've been deploying, you're in a high stress job. And so what's happened is these cognitive deficits just start to add up and you just start to get to worse and worse and worse and worse. So what we need to do is break the pain cycle, break the stress cycle, and get you sleeping again. And that protocol there is to analyze how every part of your body, like we got orthopedic pain, let's address the orthopedic pain. You got headache pain, let's address the headaches.

6:05:35But without, let's look what we can do. They used acupuncture. I went in for acupuncture and Dr. Kaufman did this acupuncture in my head. And I remember it was like somebody hit a button and my headache went away. And I left. I walked out of his office and I went to the, I was staying on Bethesda at the time at the NICO, on the National Naval Medical Center. They put you up there. And I fell asleep. I slept for 18 hours. The first time I slept like that, I came in and I'm like, and they're like, welcome back. And I started to piece myself back together. and during that time I was there extortion happened so the first weekend I'm at I'm at Nyko I get there on August 1st I go through this the first week where they're explaining stuff I start my testing and then I drive home to see my kids I crawl in bed my phone lights up it's a two troop is gone i'm like what and then the names start and i was like oh my god a sinking feeling because i'm like i'm thinking of the guys in gold and i'm like which who's in two troop and then i see jt's name jt tomlinson and i'm just like and then i see jonas name and you know you know everybody on that list it's not like it's not like uh hey names are flashing a tv screen it's like you have faces popping in your head and i'm like they're all gone i went and i crawled in bed with walker i was like dude he was a baby and i cried i just held my kids and i'm like holy and and and then it came in waves it was just like that that month was just like i'm in nyko my i'm starting to come back together.

6:07:27I'm healing, but I'm like, the command just got thrown into this mass casualty drill. We never lost that many people at one time. How many kids woke up that morning without a dad? We're sending out teams to families over and over and over again. And I mean, it just was like a shockwave that went through that place. And thank God I was at Nyko. Thank God I had the support that I did.

6:08:02And, you know, JT's was the one that hit me the most because we were so close. He was in my wedding. When we came back, we had a formal wedding at home and he blew up. Bo was the best man. And JT was in the wedding.

6:08:21and Bo calls me and says, hey man, we're going to bury JT in Rockford at home. And I said, okay, I want you to sing a song. I was like, okay. I didn't even think about it. I'm like, fuck. Come home and I'm like, that day I woke up in the morning. what was messed up was before Bo called me and all that stuff happened I woke up that morning I had like a little mp3 player and I went for a walk in my neighborhood same neighborhood I walk in right now and the song came on called hell for the company and it was written by a guy I went to Naval Academy with uh Dave Badakian and he and I used to play guitar together and jam and I was like what and and it just kept playing in my head and when Bo called me said hey I need you to play JT's I was like kind of my worst nightmare because I knew the whole command would be there we flew out to we flew out there and I got some I got a couple days a couple extra days off from NICO.

6:09:31And thank God, Dr. Kaufman was there. He's a psychiatrist. And I flew out there. And it was like right out of a movie. It's like 1950s school at a rural town in Iowa with one stoplight. And we walk in, it's like the old gymnasium with... Then there's a stage inside the gymnasium right and that's you know the the all the old bricks and the the seating on each side and the the kid is um you know the kid running the sound board and and um the guy started arriving and it was they wheeled jtn what was what we thought was i mean when when the when the rpg hit the helicopter, it just incinerated. And then it was like lights out, lights out.

6:10:36How many times you've flown in a helicopter? How many times have you like coming in on landing and you're just like, and fortunately I think, Pete Van Hoosier at the memorial said it best. yeah that's another pete van hoosier ceo of the command at the time he was a ceo of group two when red wings went down and they brought him back he was in retirement they brought him out of retirement to be the ceo of the command and then extortion happens yeah you tell me that's not a calling he knew he knew what to say to the families and how to handle it and you know he he said and i always i always think about this he said you know at the end of the speech he was given the memorial at the end of speech he says uh he starts laughing he's you know i gotta laugh he goes you know they were all jocked up they're getting ready to land the rangers are called troops and they're they call for the qrf and they're getting ready to get after it he's like the rpg hits and all of a sudden they're sitting on the other side they all look at each other and And they go, motherfucker.

6:11:50And he said it in this way. And he's like, and then they all walked into heaven. I'm paraphrasing. But you know how many times you replayed, like, what was the last second like? And I kept thinking about that. And they wheeled JT in. And the command walks in. They sit down.

6:12:16JT's dog, Hawkeye, his chocolate lab, walks up to the casket and lays down in front of the casket. The command is there. All three of JT's girlfriends were there. They all met at the same time. We're all like, that's kind of funny. you know team guys being team guy humor and i'm in my blues and bo gives this absolutely amazing speech and then they're like and now you're gonna sing and i and i remember looking down and playing in front of team guys they're singing in front of team guys it's like being a wounded zebra walking in front of a pride of lions they're just like you they just there's just you can tell Like, don't, what are you going to do?

6:13:11What the fuck? And I sang Hell for the Company. And I closed my eyes. I sang it.

6:13:24And my, Heather had met me there, and she had brought Tanner with me, with her, because he was newborn. He was still breastfeeding. And, you know, we, that memorial, you know, we, I wasn't drinking. I stayed sober. the minute I went to Mako, I put the booze down. And I was sober for that whole thing. And I experienced all of the extortion stuff sober. And it was different. And it hurt more. I wanted to grab a beer and I wanted to do a shot. And I was just sober and clean and clear. And I could just, I felt it all. and we we packed up and i went back to nico and um i get a call from the chaplain and he says hey we're having the arlington ceremony and he was on the 17th and um the plan is they're going to do the change of command they're going to say a few words it's in the all face chapel and you're going to sing and i was like no way and he's like listen here's the deal we can't have a denominational service because we have too many guys we're going to do the the quick change of command pete manhuish is going to give the remarks um wyman howard's going to take over and he's going to give his remarks and I was in Rockford and I want you to sing and that's what it's gonna be and I was like

6:15:08the goal I didn't want to go I want to be at the command I want to be anywhere near I was like I'm a I'm a failure I'm a quitter dropped out if they get shit can you know what I mean I was like I I showed up and I got up there and I closed my eyes and I sang and we buried them.

6:15:37And that was, you know, I can talk about that all day, but for me, I shut the door on it, on it all. That was it? That was it for me.

6:15:56That was it for me.

6:16:00It's a tough ride, man. It was a tough ride.

6:16:06But then, you know, went out to the West Coast. I built this brief. And I'm like, I'm gonna, we got a TBI problem. You know what? I'm gonna help the guys. started getting phone calls two in the morning i went back i gave the first uh the first blast brief to red i walked in i said hey can i have 30 minutes of your time they're like where'd you go dude did you go to the nut house like what the hell happened and i said uh so i gave the first tbi brief i explained what traumatic brain injury was i explained the symptoms i explained the comorbidities between tbi and ptsd you know i was talking about sleep walk through all of it every guy in the room was like dude i got all of that and i remember commander williams was like and the doc at the time was like whoa like there's a way out of this like i and we started stacking guys up on a nyco nyco became the revolving door for the command And everybody was going up there.

6:17:11And I was fielding calls at 2 in the morning from guys hurting. And I just found this purpose. And I'm like, well, you know what? I came here to save. That's what you said at the beginning. This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to save these fucking guys. I went to the West Coast. Started giving the brief. And I hit this brick wall. Ah, we don't have TBI. That's a death group problem. We don't have any of that. I'm like, have you ever had a concussion? Well, yeah, I've had hundreds of concussions. I'm like, but I don't have TBI. My boss at the time was like, you made it all up. You're just lazy.

6:17:50And I'm just like, and I got this, this, I hit this wall at Warcom and group one. And it was like, we don't have this problem. Meanwhile, I'm fielding phone calls of guys being like, how do i get help and and i had gotten a lot better like the nyco just it was like i just changed directions out of nyco and it was like within two months of being out of there i mean i wasn't good but i was it what i thought was like night and day better and we started my wife and i started speaking to the uh the teams that would come back and every time we would give our speeches at the family post-deployment retreats, which we never got, we would give the speech, and I would start talking about, like, you know, walking out with my badge and keys every time and drinking, and my wife would, then she would get up there and just basically throw me under the bus, and the wives would just elbow the husbands.

6:18:54and i was like okay like you know we've been through 15 years of sustained combat like like the navy doesn't i came to this conclusion like the navy doesn't love you navy does not give two fucks about you naval special warfare doesn't love you they don't give two fucks about you and that's okay they don't they shouldn't they've got a mission they've got a job and they didn't want to acknowledge the problem i don't think they have yet because it was like if we acknowledge the problem then we got to do something about it if we do something about it we got to start changing our modus operandi we got to start changing how we are breaching protocols you know you eat enough you know you stand three feet from a door and clack off explosives you're passing all kinds of energy through the cortex your brain like we just we got to come up with a way you know and i was like so the problem isn't now going to be solved by the commands inside of NSW.

6:19:48It's going to be solved by the support mechanisms around NSW. And there was a couple other guys from the command with me out there. And I put in my letter of resignation. And our parting trip, five of us went up to Alaska, and we climbed and summited Denali and then skied down. And I took my bracelet, my memorial bracelet from, I went up to the top of the nollie and I tied it to the plaque that's on top that marks the summit. I'm like, I'm done. I'm done grieving. That was about a year after that, I grieved. Now I'm gonna go try to fix this the best way I can on the outside. So I left. I came home and got out of the Navy with no plan, no job.

6:20:47Like they were just like, see ya. And some guys didn't even know I got out. They're like, wait, you got out? What's going on? I'm like, at one point during that time, called the detailer and they said, well, because you fell off your career path by essentially taking time off going to nyco because it wasn't acknowledged nobody knew what it was um you're gonna have to take another troop with seal team seven back to afghanistan for a year if you want to stay in the path in the pipeline and i came home and i looked at heather she's like no no like these three that's your priority and i was like okay, I got out.

6:21:44I just kind of walked out the door, stayed in the reserves for a couple of years. But when they looked at my background, like I was a great reservist. I can be plugged into any part of NSW that you need. They called me up. They're like, we're going to activate you. I was like, I just got out. I was going to every, I was trying to speak at nonprofits. I was trying to raise money. I did a campaign with Napa. we raised um i don't know how many millions of dollars we raised but we opened up 10 more nyko satellite centers um i started that first year i worked as a ski instructor at snowmass and um i started skiing the big mountain competitions because i was like my love of skiing i felt at home there like maybe i'll prove in my mind i was like if i go do this then i can prove that i'm healed and that was when i was approached by the men's journal guy and said hey i want to do an article and i was like well jim kelly had left nico and he wanted to open up another facility in aurora colorado for the veterans and i was like perfect you know nico is for active duty we need something on the outside for veterans and this can be for veterans same protocols so So Jim and I start working on it.

6:23:02I was like, well, I'll do this article about how like your protocols healed me. And, you know, that'll bring some attention to me. That'll help with donors. And guy came out. We talked about the article, doing the article. He came to an event. I did horribly at the event. And I was new to any of that media. And at one point he goes, he said to me, we're going to, he's like, hey, the next article I'm doing is about that Captain Phillips mission. And I talked to these FBI guys who said, you know, the SEAL story is BS. And I'm going to do the article about the FBI guys. And I was like, don't do that.

6:23:39That's not true. And he's like, well, how do you know? I was like, well, I was there. And I was there when the FBI showed up after the shots were taken. You know, came across the, hey, pirates are dead. We were like, woo-hoo. Like 24 hours later, the FBI was like, we're here. We're like, for what? And so I told that to the author. and when the article comes out it was about how i led the captain phillips mission and they timed it with the opening of the movie and it wasn't about healing from tbi and i was like and then the hate poured in from what were you thinking and i was like that's not what i wanted it i intended it to be about traumatic brain injury and how i was getting better and and it was supposed to be raised money and nobody cared damn man then we found bernie marcus founder of home depot and he signed on and he gave us 38 million dollars we opened the doors to the marcus brain institute aurora colorado and i got to give the opening speech and um and jim kelly took the home there and we started healing veterans and it was fucking awesome congratulations yeah that is fucking awesome it was pretty cool man i was like oh that was that was i made it and then i fucking took a massive digger skiing he got another massive concussion and i called jim and he's like okay this like skiing thing it's big mountain you just can you just not hit your head again because you're going to be licking the windows and i was like okay and you know it's kind of tumbling through different jobs after that.

6:25:36And I worked at a place called Rally, gave a speech. It was a software healthcare company started by this young. And the original idea was to fix, I pitched him my thing called life optimization was how to use wearable devices to manage, you know, heart rate variability and cortisol levels and be able to do predictive modeling on who was going to get in the red for tbi symptoms and he's like we're doing that here and then like tech works you know you get in for one reason and then money arrives and you hang a right hand turn and that company you know granted very well um rally turned into a fantastic success he was like 33 when he sold it we're talking about Grant who?

6:26:29Verstanded. I know Grant. Yeah. I went to work at Raleigh when it was Audax. Oh, shit. Yeah, I went and gave the blast effect speech, like a leadership speech, and then I handed Grant my business plan for wearable devices and how do we do predictive modeling. And Grant said, we're going to do that here at Raleigh. Come work with us. I went to work at Rally. And then the first tranche of buyouts came with United coming in. And, you know, we went from startup to worth$500 million overnight. And then Rally, you know, it was an engagement tool. But it was a great education on, you know, tech startups and how that all.

6:27:20And I was flying back and forth from Colorado. and just, I mean, I was burning the candle at both ends again. I gotta make a living. I gotta figure this out with my kids. And, you know, Grant being a wonderful dude, super supportive through all of it. And when it took the right hand turn and became, we weren't gonna go do the wearable devices integration to fix TBI. It was an engagement tool for United. I was like, I'm out. And I'm falling apart. And just then, Cactus called me out of the blue. Hey, man, I got this song. Pass to me and we're doing this documentary. You want to come record an album?

6:28:09And I was like, I got nothing else going on. I flew to Nashville. And like you heard the first story, it's how I met Cactus and Wine. And then the Patriot Tour came up. And, you know, Marcus was going to take a bunch of vets out to talk about stuff and said, hey, I'd like somebody to come play music. So I went out and I did 14 stops on the Patriot Tour with them. Recorded that. How did that feel to get into music? Yeah, the music part was a, that was nice because, you know, Jim Kelly was like, music is the best thing you can do for your brain. And I was like, oh, maybe this is where I need to, maybe this is where I need to go.

6:28:50you know and and i you know that the first ep we cut was really the heart and soul of what we were going to do and then i started to see the music business and i recorded the second album and i realized like and you had john rich on here talking about the music business and and um uh the reality was i remember i sat down i was getting a record deal talking to different A &R guys and this is going to happen. And I said, here's the deal, man. There's 273 radio stations around the country, country radio, 75 million daily listeners. The way it works is we sign you. It's going to be a 360 deal. I got a bunch of great songs.

6:29:35You're going to cut them. In the meantime, once we cut the record, you're going to fly to all 273 radio stations and you're going to meet everybody and show your face and we take one of your singles we put our radio team behind it put a bunch of money behind it and essentially you buy a spot on the billboard and then that summer we're going to put you out on a tour and you're going to be opening up you'll pay to open for a big name to get in front of their their people and then we're going to rinse and repeat for five years and at the end of the five years you're going to be poor but you're going to be famous and we you know we can you can move on from there with another deal or however whatever direction you want to go and i sat there and i was but I want to write my own songs.

6:30:34Guy goes, doesn't work like that. You can do that later. I'm like, so you're just going to use my story to sell your shit. And then I'm going to play your stuff and I'm going to have to play your stuff for the rest of my life, whether I like it or not. And I'm going to be on the road 300 days of the year and basically going to make nothing. The 360 deal, they take a piece of everything, your merch, everything. Like, well, it's only for five years. and I was like, that's a horrible idea. Cactus was like, that's a horrible idea. And I was imploding. I was playing shows. I was traveling. You did it.

6:31:17No, I didn't take the deal. I started to try to, I kind of took the route that Tim Montana took and that was to go out and get sponsors. And you get sponsored by an outdoor company and you put out a bunch of, you do their social media for them and they're going to pay you a lump sum. And you try to push, pay for your own record teams. And so I did that shortly. I had one single called Walking a Wire that was, hired a record team for like 10 grand and it was a co-write with Dierks Bentley and Dave Lee Murphy. And it got to 39 on the music row charts. I hated the song. I cut another song for - You get to 39?

6:31:59Yeah, on music row charts. It wasn't on the Billboard chart. It was on the JV chart. But I was able to get to 39. And I was like, that's kind of cool. And American Sniper was coming out, and I'd been on the Patriot Tour with Taya, Kyle, and she said, would you cut this Hearts I Leave Behind song and we'll put it in the movie? And I said, yeah. I went to Y. I'm like, you want to do this with me? It's going to go in this American Sniper movie. and so why cactus and i went in and we cut hearts i leave behind and right before the movie came out they're like yeah so we it was supposed to be in the memorial page for chris like where they show all the pictures at the end of the movie and uh they're like it's going to be silence um i was like what i just invested a bunch of this money in recording all this stuff and I was kind of like okay so now I got this song what do I do with it and I'm like I know Glenn Beck I call it Glenn Beck and I'm like hey Glenn I got this song recorded for this movie and it's not going to be in the movie but what I'll do is whatever we make off it I'll donate to Taya's charity above of what it cost me to cut it, just so I can get out of this thing.

6:33:31And Glenn's like, let's do it. So he put me on talk radio. And Glenn told the story and said, hey, the money's going to be donated. And it went to number one in iTunes. It went to number one? Number one on iTunes for a couple days. And it's the last number one that Winona's had. Was Hearts I Leave Behind. and i i cut the check to tie to cut the check to teah i looked around and this is like i mean this is when this is when the ptsd hit me like a freight train i thought it was like tbi is everything good ptsd is not gonna not gonna happen to me i'm good i'm being clear of it and the stress of that whole time frame throughout your entire everything you've been through yep from 10 months old until what age are you here 30 so i'm 48 now so i was probably 39 so damn near 40 years yeah all the shit that we just discussed and you didn't think ptsd was going to affect you dude i'm bulletproof I'm a Sierra Land Commando Got a massive ego I'm a Country music star Like nothing Is gonna affect me I can do anything I can ski big mountains My life is good I just made some bad business decisions Lost a bunch of money Sold my house in Colorado And I moved home I quit music And I was I ended up sitting down on our family's property with 357 sitting on the creek and I was like I'm doing nobody any good like emotional wreck couldn't control myself like I'm seeing visions of my father being mean drinking like I mean I was full blown I was never physically addicted to alcohol but I was like I'd drink from the get up in the morning and I was just off the rails I mean off the rails went down there to end it and then I heard this voice in my head say no and I shot the tree and

6:36:19went home and I was just like I don't know what to do I need help where were your wife and kids at home in Erie we were all home back in Erie at that point and I was working from Velocity Outdoors Russ Rowan and Tom again called me up. They had worked on another project with me and they said, hey, listen, you want to come in? They had sponsored some of my music and they were really great to me. They said, come in and do brand with us. And Russ, he came from Burton. Russ and Tom, Tom was the CEO of Burton, CEO of Spider, CEO of K &N. And Russ was his brand guy at every piece. and I said, you're a creative guy.

6:37:11Like, come in and help us with brand. And so I had been working with them, and they were just like, dude, are you okay? Like, it's starting to come apart, and like, we can see it. And I was just like, I don't know what to do. One of the guys I climbed Denali with, that I was in the squadron with, calls me out of the blue, and he says Ed calls me he says I love you I said I love you too Ed he goes we're gonna go to Mexico and do the world's most powerful psychedelic drugs

6:37:52and I was like okay has anybody done this? he's like yeah a couple guys I'm like who? anybody I can talk to? and he says uh yeah sean the guy i went on the last stop with out in omega he just went i was like oh i call sean up he's he's a very stoic dude really smart got out got his mba working crushing it i said he did this ibogaine but what is it like at this point i'm like you know i just had a gun in my mouth like ibogaine what is it i'll try it and he goes well i don't give you too many expectations but uh it because when i was under in the medicine i was in the delivery room with my parents he goes i was uh you don't know this but i was adopted and i was like dude my mom died when i was 10 months old and i've always asked like why did god leave me alone he goes that's your fire question and i was like what's a fire question he goes you gotta write down your intention for your journey before you go into the medicine throw it in the fire and i was like okay i had no idea what i was getting into this is 2019 so i called another friend of mine micah fink who started heroes and horses and i said micah fucking shit's coming off the road like i'm bad he's like all right you're in the you're gonna gonna come to heroes and horses in june first class 2019 we're gonna do 40 days in the wilderness riding a horse and i was like all right well i'm gonna go do this plant medicine right before that so i'm like i'll just throw everything at the kitchen sink and see if any of this shit works and if it doesn't then i'll go back to that 357 and like not torture my family like my father tortured me what did you say to your family when you got back from the creek did they have any idea what was going on no did you ever tell them this is going to be the first time they hear it yeah how do you think they're going to react i think they're going to be upset do you think they're going to be understanding

6:40:26you know the kids were really young at that point and i don't think they saw much i think lena might have understood that i was upset i was distant i was just hiding in the basement you know drinking all the time but i'm not like my dad i'm not an angry drunk i'm a fun guy you know like no one was ever going to tell me to stop drinking because i didn't have a problem with it like i was the life of the party you know and so drinking was a way to make me happy and i think but i know my wife knew she was just like dude what is this like what do you like what do you who are you she knew what i mean i just wasn't myself i was just plummeting like Like, she's tough as nails.

6:41:18And she hits, she met me where I was all the time. She wasn't a pushover. You know, she's a lion when it comes to the kids. And she's like, no, no, you're going to, like, but she saw, like, emotionally I was just, like, all over the place. And we were fighting left and right, and she was holding the fort down. She's like, well, figure it out. We got to figure this out. we gotta we gotta make a living we gotta do this we gotta we gotta keep moving forward you have to keep moving forward and i was just like i i don't know what i can't like that that's when the nightmare started i wasn't sleeping at all sweating through the sheets like she would roll over and be like whoa i mean like soaked and i just get up you know and i was again i'm a very good drunk like I and then I lighten up and I'm happy and she was just like hey and my mother-in-law noticed my friends noticed my buddies from home so I'm back at home at this point and they're all just like you know hey what's with Pete something's going on you know and and a couple of my buddies were starting to sniff around and and I was just like I remember what I remember thinking like now I know how my dad felt.

6:42:40Now I know what he was thinking. He was like, I'm no good. I'm going to hurt him. I just got to get out of this. And I was like, I'm my father. I remember thinking that, like, I've become my father. I was like, the worst. I think that's what really, like, set me down to the creek. Like, you're him.

6:43:08are you worried about them saying this no no will you watch it with them yeah i will because what came after that is beautiful

6:43:29and i believe that

6:43:34the cracks in the armor let the light shine through and life is gonna be shitty for everyone it's gonna take you to places you know with my son doing what he's doing i don't care how tough you are i don't care what you wear on your chest i don't what your job is how much money you make like you're here you're a spirit here to learn lessons and you're going to learn those lessons.

6:44:03And the only thing as a parent that you can do is love your kids of everything about them. And for them to see this and see that and know that I was there and to know where I'm at now, um that's just as important as any story war story or anything like that more important that that happened a million miles away and they may have seen a movie or something what it looked like that moment was I shared no

6:44:49I flew out to flew out there and like you dude you have 14 guys show up to do Ibogaine together we're all just like what okay you're kind of making jokes you're back in the you're back in in that like mindset. Yeah, I'm with my buddies. Like this is good. We're gonna go do this stuff. And we had a fire ceremony. Why'd you leave me alone, God? During the fire. And then fucking blast off into Ibogaine land. I remember laying there and I'm like, when is this gonna hit? And it was like, somebody plugged me in. I know the vibrating, it was like, and then the memories and it was like a rolodex it was like every memory that i didn't even know i had it was like sitting watching an ipad and all the bad ones they just kept coming back and and then the purging and the and you know the the guys and the other guys in the room i i didn't purge as much there was one dude in the room who i was like he's giving birth to a demon And he's over there.

6:46:04I remember at one point, like, pulling my headset off. I'm like, get after it, buddy. We're, like, cheering him on. And that, dude, man, I don't know. That substance is truly a divine gift. There is no...

6:46:27i you know i remember that before the therapists were like so the first few hours you're not in control then then at a certain point you're going to be you're going to be able to ask the medicine questions and then it's going to show you things and i'm just like i remember just being the smart ass that i am i was like well how should i address the medicine she's like just call it medicine and I was like, we're all kind of like laughing at each other. When I got through the first part, I was just like, medicine? Can we talk now?

6:47:04And that first Ibogaine journey, it was like night and day. I woke up from the first part of it. And I kept seeing this demon. It was like this tiny little demon. and he came to the foot of my bed. And the first time I called him Bart, I kicked him out and he was cute. He was like a tiny little demon of his tail that hung over top and he'd like swing around and he just walking around. And then he came back and I called him Doug and I kicked him out. He came back a third time because three's my number. And I called him Dart and I kicked him out. I got up laughing about Dart and I went downstairs and they were like, what's going on?

6:47:46And I felt really good. Like some guys post Ibogaine are like, they feel like shit and they don't move. But I get like this burst of energy and I got up and I'm just like, wow. I go downstairs and I start talking to therapists and I draw a dart. And then all of a sudden I got this, I'm really tired again. So I go back to sleep and I have this like movie playing in my head, like a 4K movie. Like I'm watching it, but I'm off and then I'm in it. And then I'm watching it and then I'm in it. and it's about dark. And it is hilarious, but it's the realest thing I've ever seen and been a part of. And I fall back asleep, and it's like 4K movie, and I'm watching this guy walk into a bar.

6:48:35He's like, I think he's like a finance guy, a good-looking dude. He's got a couple girls. They're getting ready to, they're at a bar. They order some, you know, martinis. and he knows everybody at the bar and they're like hey let's go to the bathroom and let's do some you know i'm watching this guy do drugs with the things and i watched the the girl goes here i got this stuff it's like mushrooms but you know it's more powerful do you want to take it and the guy's like i'll try anything and i was he's like what's it called he's like i began i was like don't take that shit and the guy in the movie takes it and uh and then they they leave the bar they go to this apartment and all of a sudden he starts getting sick and the girl's like we're out of here this guy's just he's purging and and i'm like i told you you know i'm like having this half i'm in half in this out of this trip he's purging and all of a sudden it goes black and then it starts up again and now i'm in the guy's body and i'm sitting i'm leaning against the bathtub and the toilet is here and the demon is sitting in front of me dart and and he he's got Danny DeVito's voice and he goes let me back in I was like what the fuck was like oh my god what the fuck was that I'm like what is this can't be happening and I get up and I'm like somehow I know I have to go to work I gotta work and this demon's like come on man let me give me back let me back in let me back in and I'm like no whatever I took last night that was way too powerful like go into my room I get in clothes I don't know how I'm doing any of this it's like It's part of this movie.

6:50:13Darts follow me around. We take the elevator downstairs and I walk out in the street. And now there's like hundreds of darts. I see them everywhere. And he's like seeing guys. He's like, hey. And they're all these cute little demons. They're not me. They're like a hybrid of like Pokemon, but like demonic. And they're in this little realm and they're just kind of strutting around and talking to each other. And I'm just like, whatever I took last night, like I shouldn't have taken that. but this demon it's like the dirtiest thing he's just every every thought that you have that you don't want to come out of your mouth is coming out of his mouth and he's just running around it's just spewing it everywhere go to i go to work i don't know how i get to work i'm just playing in this movie this movie's going along and you know he's just like every girl that comes up he's trying to look up her dress he's motorboating him he's just like the dirtiest little demon and he's like you You know, he runs into like a guy's office and there's a bunch of booze and he's just like trying to grab the booze, but he can't grab the booze.

6:51:15And I'm having this conversation like, stop it, like fighting with the people. But nobody else sees the demon except for me. And Dart, and so finally someone's like, dude, you need to go home. And so I leave and Dart follows me and the sun is setting. And I sit on a park bench and Dart sits next to me. and I'm just like, what are you? And he's like, who are these? What is this? He's like, we're demons. I go, well, what's the deal? He goes, I need to be in you so I can enjoy things. You and I have been together forever. He's like, I love you team guys. He's like, we've got a great relationship.

6:51:59He's like, you guys are like winning the lottery. I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, look, you guys play hard and then you party hard. He's like, so I let you do what you need to do. We do fun stuff together. He's like, and then when it's time for me to get what I want, then I get what I want. I've been with you since the academy. And I was just like, what? I'm like, how do you get into people? And he's like, see that guy? He's like, look down. He's like, everyone's got like an aura. He's like, the green, don't go for the green. we don't go for the green he goes the yellow and the red he's like that's the guys those are the target guys those are the ones that are primed for the picking and and so we're sitting out there the sun goes down and i'm having this conversation with the demon about how demons work guy comes out of a bar he's like see that guy right there he's like that's billy this little demon is just like this cute little guy running around he's like billy always picks the bad ones he's like that guy that guy's gonna go cheat on his wife and just then billy jumps in the demon jumps into the dude and the guy grabs a girl and they go off.

6:53:06He's like, here's the problem. That guy, he's a good dude. He's just having a bad day. He's going to wake up in the morning, have a crisis of conscious. He's going to kick Billy out and Billy's going to be back out on the streets. He didn't pick like I picked. He's like, I picked you. And I was like, sitting there looking at Dart. I'm like, starting to make a lot of sense to me. so I go home and I get on the computer I'm like I gotta find like a shaman lady because I'm like whoever does this medicine maybe I get this medicine stuff out and the whole time I'm asking dark questions I'm just like well why don't you pick some like rich guy and just have all the fun in the world he goes no no no no you don't pick the rich guys they go to exotic islands and they do all kinds of weird medicine and then you're stuck on that island so you find some poor sap to get a ride home with I'm just like whoa and so I find this shaman i don't know i find a show this is the movie we go down and i go to this go across town hop in a cab go up to this apartment i knock on the door and this woman opens the door and she goes can i help you and she looks down and she goes and hello to you too and i was like you see him she's like come on in we need to talk and i was like okay i need to get rid of him and she's like, well, it's not that easy.

6:54:27And I go, well, how do I get rid of them? She goes, you got to let them back in. And I look, he's like, see, I told you the whole time. It's like a comedy show with us with dark. Cause he's like cracking jokes and it's funny. And I'm laughing in my dream. I'm laughing and the therapist, I didn't know this, we're sitting up there watching me laugh. And I'm just like having this thing. And, uh, and I go, okay, well, what happens? She goes, you got to let him back in. See, demons are just toxic egos. And when their body dies, they don't believe there's anything bigger than them. They don't join the universal collective.

6:55:03The only way for him to join the universal collective and leave is to feel forgiveness. And that's what true love is. So you got to let him in and you got to forgive him and then he'll leave you. And I got up from the couch and the movie ends. Now I'm out of my body and I'm watching this guy walk down the street with his little demon walking with him and i woke up that's how my ibogaine trip ended and the therapist was like cynthia goes what was that and i was like we gotta talk and i just dumped it on cynthia and she was like that is amazing and then she starts she starts helping me you know piece things together the next day we do i didn't want to do the five i was like dude i got dark to deal with i don't need whatever this next thing is i don't want to go down that road and she's i was the last guy to do it in the house and uh i walk in there's three other dudes sitting there and they just go go upstairs and i was like i don't want to They're like, you need to go upstairs.

6:56:14I went upstairs and I did the five.

6:56:24And I immediately went to the place. It'll let go. When that moment came to die, I was like, yeah, I'll let it go. And I went to this place. and the only way I can describe it is infinite awareness and I felt waves of forgiveness and I was like bring it to me bring me all your hate and I was turning it into love and it was just wave after wave after wave

6:56:59I woke up from that and Ed was right there. And I sat up and I cried like I'd never cried before. And the two of us, I just let it go. I was like, I know. I know what the other side is. And I know where we're going. I know where they're all at. It's gonna be okay.

6:57:26i came back from that i remember walking in the airport and i could feel trauma on people i was like sitting i'm sitting in the san diego airport and i'm looking at this guy and i could like feel his trauma and i had so much empathy i'm an empath by nature which i found out 10 and i could feel the trauma on everyone around me and it was like this i came home packed up and then i went to heroes and horses and i spent 40 days riding around on horse in the mountains montana integrating that experience and the combination of those two things i came back from that heroes and horses was just it's not a vacation it's you're you're sleeping in the dirt you're pushing cattle you're doing pack trips you're riding wild mustangs it's the real deal i came back from that and the combination of those two things i was just a different person did you get the answer to your question not yet i went back a few a few years passed and i went back and i did I began again with a couple other team guys and I never got the answer to the question and I was like I was really upset about this but I wasn't upset

6:59:16I so back up when I came back from that first time that's when walker said to me i i came back a different person i really was like present in a really amazing way and i was just like this is good and my wife was like who are you like you you what did you do and i was like the it's the great i don't know but i'm like I was in a great place and my friends said hey we're going to play this we want you to come play this fundraiser show out for the Grammy Museum and that week Walker said to me hey dad I want to be an Avenger and I was like dude they're actors and he goes well I'll do that then and I was like okay you want to be an actor he goes yeah can you take me to Hollywood and I go it just so happened that I'm going out to Hollywood to play a show come with me I'm like let's do this I took him out and uh it was a red carpet event and I played and Walker was just running around trying to find producers he's like 10 years old pulling on people's hey are you a producer and that time we went and I took him to the Hollywood Walk of Stars and we walked on the stars and and uh he loves Robert Downey Jr.

7:00:42he loved Iron Man and um i was going out there to play the show and write a song with a guy named tommy costar who wrote he was the songwriter for the album the real slim shady and he wrote all the piano stuff tommy's this amazing guy tommy came to my show and he meets walker and he goes let's write a song with walker i was like all right so the next day bring walker into into the studio and we start writing this tune and it's called walk on stars and it's all about walker's journey into hollywood and I watched this kid just like his imagination explode and how he was talking about, it was a green lantern.

7:01:19He was talking about Iron Man, all Spider-Man. He wrote this amazing song and we sang it and he's really embarrassed about it, but I love it. And Tommy goes, dude, I want to introduce him to somebody. He's got it. And so he calls his friend Priscilla and Priscilla and I meet with Tommy for Walker's first business meeting. And she goes, and Tommy and I are kind of sitting there the next day and she goes why do you want to be an actor and walker goes because when i pretend to be other people i understand how they feel he's 10 and i looked at tommy and i was like that's pretty good man priscilla says to me and walker had just been cast in mary poppins at the school middle school play and he's like well i'm in mary poppins very proud he's playing Michael and she goes if it's okay with your dad can I help you with your play and I said yeah absolutely so over the next few months she would do zoom calls and help him with this part and she's like hey she called me she goes he's I want to get him into a acting school there's a acting school in LA and I'm like these are all bullshit he's like no this guy is the real deal John Di Aquino and uh at the end of it they have a showcase and I was like okay let's try it I'm like he'll probably go there and like every kid they're like I want to be a football player and he you know they go and they play their first football game like hey I want to be a basketball player you know he's going to bounce around and so I take him to the the the thing um the camp in Burbank and all family went out for a little vacation and I was in the best place mentally I was just like I'm dad I'm this is this is what I'm supposed to be doing I'm really happy just a three-day camp and does a uh the showcase at the end and their agents and managers there and the guy runs a camp he's like hey there's a lot of interest in Walker can you stay and I was like all right we got three kids I can't stay he's like I want to introduce you to a manager I was like I know how this works I just got done with entertainment I know agents and managers I understand this whole situation And he's like, no, no.

7:03:31So I'm like, I'll take one meeting. We go back to the hotel and there's a manager waiting in the hotel lobby with a card. I'd love to talk to you about Walker. And I'm just like, hmm. Next day on the way out of town, I met with April. And I just kind of read her the riot act. I'm like, listen, I know how the system works. I know what you do. I'm not signing anything. But if you bring some work, we'll talk. And we go home. She calls me a week later. It's just as COVID starting out. She goes, we want you to meet an agent in New York. I'm like, dude, there's COVID. I'm not going to New York City.

7:04:00It's like the epicenter. She's like, come on, just go meet these people. They're not going to sign them. They just want to meet them. I'm like, all right, you know what? My dad told me no at every turn. I'm like, I'm going to say yes. Walker, let's get in the car. We drive to New York City. Go to the, I forget what floor, in the Empire State Building. We meet with A3. He goes in for 10 minutes. The girl comes out, goes, they want to talk to you. I walk in, they go, we want to sign Walker. and I'm like no I sign anything but you bring work you know we'll talk about it and I'm thinking to myself I'm like how are we going to do this like there's New York and LA got to be for auditions we live in Erie Pennsylvania like this ain't going to work but you know what I'm going to do what my dad never did I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna see this thing through with him and we go home and COVID lockdown starts and it's just like the world comes to a screeching halt well the entertainment industry went to self tapes and so they're like look here's the deal we're gonna you do the self tape and then the casting um the casting people look at the self tapes and then you'll get callbacks so you don't have to go any place for an audition so i was like all right and so i built i get on amazon and i get some lights and i built a studio in my basement and um they start sending self tapes and and walker and i i'm like hey you're not playing video games.

7:05:24You said you want to be an actor. We got these auditions. Let's go do this. So every night we'd go in the basement. We'd read the sides. I don't know anything about acting. You know, I was like a performer, but I wasn't, and I was just like, do I believe him or not? And every night we do it. Send the tape in. Nothing, nothing. 50 auditions, nothing. 100 auditions. Now we're at a couple months into this. We're trying everything. I'm like, Walker, Or watch Iron Man without the sound on so you can understand how Robert Downey Jr. communicates with body language. I'm just trying to come up with ways to do this.

7:05:59And he's getting better. All of a sudden, I get this email. And it says, Ryan Reynolds, Sean Levy Project. And it's a full script. And I'm like, hmm, I like Ryan Reynolds. I don't know who Sean Levy is at the time. So I Google him. I'm like, oh, wow. Stranger Things. He's the real deal. and so i read the full script for the atom project and i'm like dude this is walker like this it's mini deadpool like he can recite all of deadpool like he he he loves ryan reynolds so i'm like walker and i knew i knew this context of the script now it wasn't just like three lines where you're trying to what is this for you know they don't ever give you any information they just say hey you're your three line but i had the whole script and i was just like dude so we start rehearsing and we do like a week of rehearsals and we send the tape in and it's it he gets a call back i'm just like dude your first call back this is huge man and covid is ending it's about it's beginning of september and um i take a business trip out to my guys at velocity and Walker has his first callback.

7:07:14And when you do a callback, they sit you on a Zoom call and then you take one of your cameras and you film it as well. And then when, so they want the film and they want the Zoom call recorded. He gets in the Zoom call and they go through the sides and you can, I still have it on my phone. And the woman goes, have you ever seen any of Ryan's movies? And he goes, yeah, I've seen Deadpool. And she goes, can you recite any lines from Deadpool? And he goes, he goes, yeah, but can I say the swear words? And she's like, if your parents don't mind, he kind of waits. She sees him like think for a second.

7:07:51And then he goes, fuck Wolverine. First he rides my coattails. And he goes through the whole opening monologue of five minutes for Deadpool 2 with all inflection. And he's having the time of his life because he's like, I mean, all of the dirty shit. Like he's got it down to a tea and you can hear on the zoom call the casting director laughing and i was like i i get back we send the thing off and i'm just like i just get this feeling inside me i'm like he's he's got this next day they want to do a chemistry read they want to call with the director another call with the director it goes through the lines with him sean's like very very sean's very calm he's like all right walker thanks for your time no indication whether he has it or not call back now you're gonna do a chemistry read with ryan reynolds on zoom i'm just like dude this is awesome like you're here like i'm like we're making progress you're here with ryan so he does it with ryan and the last scene is pretty emotional and i hear and i'm in the room around the corner sitting on the stairs and I can hear Ryan go and in my mind I'm like holy shit he might actually get this next day I get a phone call it's the agent she goes hey Sean Levy wants to FaceTime with you guys thank you for your your time and I was like oh like Friday so I get on the FaceTime with Sean Levy and Sean's playing he's like he goes uh Walker you know a lot of kids experience than you and i'm thinking to myself like dude if you're gonna break the kid's heart like break it quick like i'm gonna punch you in the face and then he stops he goes but walker you're gonna be in a movie with ryan reynolds congratulations and walker goes holy shit i was like dude and it set in it was just like oh my god like this is this is fucking happening like this he's number two on a card and a 140 million dollar movie for netflix and he's starring with ryan reynolds and we start shooting in a month wow and i'm like i'm like holy fuck so i'm going with him i immediately get nervous because i'm like well who are these people like they're going to be a big part of our lives do i know anybody that knows sean or ryan so i start calling everybody i know and a friend of mine is an investment guy in new york dan lobe called dan i go you know he runs one of the biggest hedge funds in the world i'm like if he's gonna know him anybody's gonna know him dan's gonna know him so i call dan i'm like hey do you know sean levy or ryan riles he goes i know sean he's got a house next to me the hamptons and i go well, he just cast my son in a movie.

7:10:56And he goes, what? So he immediately calls Sean and says, dude, you cast my kid, my buddy's son. He's like, who's your buddy? Wait, Walker? And so he gives him my background. And so Dan calls me back, goes, you're set. And I'm like, what does that mean? He's like, Sean, I've talked to you, Sean about you and you're going to have fun. So I tell my wife, I'm like, all right, we're in COVID. You have to go up there and do 14 days of quarantine in an apartment by yourselves before they deliver food. And then all the COVID protocols in Canada are like 10x anywhere else. And you're going to go up there from basically November to March, and we're going to make this movie.

7:11:44The Walker and I hop on a plane and father, son, and we take off. we go quarantine and first day of shooting 14 days in a room with an 11 year old like like dad on 11 dude like but it was awesome man and first day we're getting ready to walk in we pull up and we're shooting at a school and when you see a production and it's full fledged you know and it's monstrosity there's hundreds of people there were all these background kids who was shooting in the school. Walker's never been on camera before. And he's like, kind of looking around and he's got a trailer and there's makeup people. And he's the only, he's number one on the card today because Ryan's not shooting.

7:12:31And like first day on camera, we hustle him in there. And Sean says to me, week four, he goes, normally we stick parents in a corner with a tent and a, you know, a screen so you can watch it. And he goes, but you got a seat next to me or you're going to be with the first ad josh mclaughlin uh josh was an executive producer as well with his sister mary you're going to be with us for the entire thing so you're going to get a different experience first day of shooting i plop down sean goes and now walker's kind of like looking around he's all these kids that want to be actors who've probably been in stuff and he's the star of this movie and he gets on camera for the first time i I pull out my phone and I take a picture of it.

7:13:18And Sean turns to me, he goes, has he ever been on camera before? And I go, no. I said, one year ago, he was in Mary Poppins. Now, mind you, we're in like full face shields with masks, COVID protocol. And I see Sean, like, I could just see in his eyes. He's like, holy shit. I just rolled the dice on the$140 million movie with a kid who'd never been on camera. Action. And take, take, take. and Walker just settling in, he's taking direction. And Sean maybe took a break. Sean looks at me and goes, I've been directing kids for a long time. I've never seen that. And then it's just started happening.

7:13:56And Walker was improvising lines. And there was these scenes where he was just like, Sean, can I try this? Why don't I do that? And Sean has this way about him where his set is extremely well run. It's disciplined, but it's free. and he is just wonderful. He just sets the tone. And Sean's got three daughters. Ryan has three daughters and just had a son. And we, now they have, we had like, we're all quarantined together and we've got, we've got this kid who's just like soaking this in, man. And I'm watching and I'm like, I remember thinking to myself, like, he was born to do this. This is exactly where he's supposed to be.

7:14:44And through that entire process, every day shoot was Ryan and we had teachers on set. So you'd have to go teach. You have to go to class and come back to set. And we were all stuck in quarantine and we were all piled in together. So you had like the red, the yellow and the green. So you couldn't like, you can't really associate with other people. So on the weekends, you know, you can only associate with a couple guys. And we became good friends with stunt coordinator Jim Churchman. And Jim was the stunt coordinator for Iron Man 3, all the X-Men movies. Like, he's the Superman, Man of Steel. Jim's, his IMDB page is just a mile long.

7:15:22And he's the nicest human being you've ever met. And he goes, how would Walker feel about doing his own stunts? And I'm like, you love it. And so we started stunt training. and Walker started doing all of his own stunts. Jim's a dad as well. And we had this like four month, like time together where every day was like a kid's dream come true. He's shooting with Ryan and he's shooting with Mark Ruffalo and he's shooting with his mom as Jen Gardner. And Ryan's wife in the movie is Zoe Zaldana. And he's with all these amazing actors and they're all like, he's in every scene. He shot more days than Ryan during that.

7:16:02and we just it was just most there was the most magical experience you can it was like it was out of a movie making a movie and sean and ryan were the in this the storyline about the adam project is a it's about a man who goes back in time to find his father who's Mark Ruffalo, who invented time travel, and he finds his 12-year-old self. And then they go back in time to find their father. And so you have this storyline about, what if you could go back and talk to your dad? What would you say? And every day, there's scenes in that movie where the whole crew's a mess. But there were these moments

7:16:55that there's a scene and we all got to know each other and we all had issues with our dads. And there's this scene in the movie at the end where Ryan and Walker are trying to tell their dad, Mark Ruffalo, that he's going to die. And Mark Ruffalo's like, I don't want to know. I can't know the future about time travel. and Ryan a lot of actors have a tough time crying on camera but you just can't cry on demand you know crying on demand is rough it's just hard sometimes with Walker on one of the early scenes we were using like blow menthol into his eyes and so he can tear up and Mark Ruffalo we're rolling the cameras and Ryan is there and Walker's there and they start the scene and Sean just lets it roll.

7:17:58And they're like going back and forth, dialogue, dialogue, and there's this break where it's supposed to be an emotional moment. Mark Ruffalo grabs Ryan and he looks at him. He goes, you're not your dad. You're an amazing father. Wow. And when you watch that movie, those tears in his eyes are, every single one of us lost it. Like, it was the most, I just sat there like paralyzed. It was the most amazing moment. And, you know, Walker's, Walker, it hit everybody. That scene is just unbelievable. But after all the shit that I'd been through in my life and my stuff with my dad to watch your kid walk into this movie and have this story be about going back in time to see your father.

7:18:57And the movie was just littered with all these amazing moments, but that one just sits with me. We finished shooting principal photography. And in the movie, there's an office where Walker meets Ryan for the first time. and it's their dad's office. And Sean says, I want to show you some of this. So Walker, Sean and I go in and we sit down and he's got on his laptop and the lights are off in the room and Walker's on the other side of Sean. Sean's next to me and he plays that scene. And I just cried like I've never cried before. Man, I just lost it. And Sean gives me a hug and he's crying. He's like, come on, Walker.

7:19:41and we walk out and walker turns to sean and he goes man the only time i've ever seen my dad cry like that was when eddie van halen died and sean busts out laughing and it was kind of it was like how there's so much more to that movie but i you know we we came back from that and where we were shooting that walker says to me like what do you want to do next he goes i'm want to be percy jackson and i was like what and i call the agent i go he wants to be percy jackson and i remember he had read all the books when he was a little kid he was super into it and he and and she goes well they're not even casting i was like listen the kid's manifesting again whatever he's doing like we need to get like the sides for this so we do the first tape for percy jackson and goes in don't hear anything for like a year in the meantime we he gets cast another movie called secret headquarters with oen wilson where he stars in that movie and i get a phone call from jim churchman he says hey i'm shooting this movie plane with gerard butler and you want to come down and help me um it's a essentially it's a a plane crashes uh on a deserted island jello line in the philippines and a bunch of mercenaries jump in and rescue the people and gerard butler flies out and i was like what do you need like a military advisor he's like yeah so i was like whatever i'm not working walker's shooting and um his mom's going with him my daughter's uh my daughter's cupboard hanging out in erie with nana it's it's you know summer going into uh september i was like i'll do it i fly down there and he's like dude you got a costume fitting i'm like what he's like he had said like you're going to be a mercenary but i didn't actually believe him he's like yeah man you're in the movie all right i could do the costume fitting and then first day of shooting we do like the rescue scene to you know rescue gerard baller and i just had this amazing experience like it was like putting a gun back on but for real but not for real it was like a surreal kind of you know you know thing we shot for a month or a month or two months and um you know you finish up a movie and you just it just kind of goes away and then you kind of forget about it and then it pops up again like oh it's going to premiere somewhere and um we we finish up shooting that movie we come home and get the phone call like hey walker's uh let's get on zoom we have an announcement to make and rick riordan and the author of Percy Jackson, been a New York Times bestseller for 16 years, or I guess 20 years now.

7:22:31Five-part series. Rick Riordan, the author, is on the Zoom. He says, hey, Walker, congratulations. You're Percy Jackson. And the story behind Percy Jackson is that he's the son of Poseidon. And he finds out he's a demigod. And he goes on these adventures. And they're all about Greek mythology. and he has all these powers with water. And in season one, you can Google it, it says Percy gets claimed. And there's a scene where he's at Camp Half-Blood and his co-star pushes him in the water. And he has all these powers he doesn't know about. He doesn't know his dad's Poseidon. And all of his cuts start to heal.

7:23:15They've just done like this capture the flag battle. And all of his cuts start to heal and he looks around and the camera pans out and annabeth says your dad's calling and a trident floats up above his head i'm like i'm like okay i'm starting to see these signs we we come on over shooting season one

7:23:45and my friend Sean calls me. Earlier that week, I was having a rough week. And for the first time in my life, I said out loud, I go, God, if you're real, you need to show me because I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not working. I'm like in this, you know, it's, when you're on set, you go from being Pete Scobell to being Walker's dad. You're just there. And you're there, but you don't have a job. You're not paid, but you have to be there. And you're kind of like in this, it's like being in purgatory. And I'm reading everything I can read, and I'm trying to grow and trying to be positive. And, you know, like the Ibogaine glow wears off.

7:24:28And so I'm really struggling a little bit again. And so I say out loud, God, if you're real, you need to show me. Because I don't know what I'm doing.

7:24:43Next day, Sean calls me and says, hey, man, the guy from the last op I went on, the guy who told me when I go to Ibogaine, ask why God left you alone. Because I got a favor to ask you. And I said, I'll do you. What is it? He goes, man, I found my mom and she still lives in Erie. And I wrote her a letter. And I need you to deliver it to her. I don't want to meet her. I don't want anything to do with her. I just have to have closure in this part of my life. And it's got to be you. And I was like, I'll do it. Send it to me.

7:25:26So him being very squared away, the next day a FedEx shows up. I open up to FedEx. I'm not going to use the real last name, but it says Patricia Smith. and I'm like

7:25:43a guy who befriended me on the ski hill when I was a kid Paul his last name's Smith I'm like that's a lot of Smiths there's an address on it I just get this hunch I text my friend Paul I'm like hey you have a sister named is Patty's name Patricia and does she live at this address and he writes back dot dot dot no but can you come over tomorrow and talk to my son about joining the coast guard yeah okay i'm like all right that didn't that wasn't real okay next day i go over to paul's house talk to his son about joining the coast guard he's like i need to talk to you he's a guy i've known my whole life threw me a graduation party from naval academy he's like my brother he goes um why'd you ask about patty i was like nothing just a coin just it's not a coincidence was a mistake and he gets real emotional and he goes was this about her son and i like this I just got hit.

7:26:53I'm like, maybe. He goes, nobody knows this, but when Patty was really young, she got pregnant and my father forced her to give the baby up for adoption. And we fought my dad. We didn't want it to happen. I told my dad, I'll be his big brother. I'll take care of him. We're a close family. We don't need that. We all live in a compound. We can't give the baby away.

7:27:27Paul says, she gave him up for adoption and just wrecked her. And then she got pregnant again from the same guy. And that's Sarah, who you know. And now the wheels are turning, and I'm like, oh my God. Like, this is Sean's family. He has a sister he's never met, full sister. I'm like, this is my big brother. He says to me, you know, when I saw you in the lift line, when we were younger, I would look around for anybody who looked like me. everybody used to call me pj's little brother so much so that when he was he was five years older than me he gave me his uh id and i used to go buy beer with his with his id when i was 16 and he's 21 because i used to look around for anybody that looked like me because i thought maybe it was him and when i saw you in the lift line that day i thought you were him that's why i made you my little brother and i was like And he says to me, who is he?

7:28:47Is he a good man? He's the best. He's a SEAL Team 6 operator. A legend. He's one of the finest human beings I've ever met.

7:29:06And PJ and I just kind of stared at each other.

7:29:13so i get in the car and i call sean i'm like hey man um i know your family i don't just know your family like they're my family holy shit

7:29:30and there was a long pause he said a good man you're a great man why'd they give me up I explained to him everything you got a sister dude a little sister you never met who's actually looking for you

7:29:58and And the next day I walked around the same neighborhood that I live in. Sean and I talked for hours.

7:30:08Just everything.

7:30:13And I said, I wanna introduce you to your mom and your sister. So we made that connection. And I, he and his sister met and they became like best friends. They talk every day. Their families get together. Damn, Pete. And he's...

7:30:48I was walking and then all of a sudden I had this epiphany that those those couple weeks just flew by just trying to just like absorb like what just happened and um as epiphany and i called them and i said hey man something you need to know that's a great family they're wonderful people i said but if you would have been born in that family you wouldn't have been who you are you wouldn't have been the man that you became you wouldn't have been the combat leader that you are you wouldn't have been the frog man that you are. You wouldn't have been the dad that you are. You wouldn't have been the husband that you are, the businessman.

7:31:26You just wouldn't have been you. I said, God makes you into the man he needs you to be for the job that he needs you to do. And then when you're ready, he heals you. And when I said that out loud, I had this peace come over me. I sat down and I had this, like, I can't even explain. It was like the five, but in real time.

7:32:01And he goes, what did you get out all this, man. I was like, I got the answer to the question that I went to, I began to ask in the first place. But God left me alone.

7:32:32I did this interview because I wanted my kids to know that God is real.

7:32:48He is the most real thing that you will ever seek. And this whole experience, whatever this is, is the pursuit of Him. and in your darkest moments, pursue Him

7:33:07because it will lead you to where you need to be. I don't know, you know, I don't know where it all goes, but I wouldn't change anything.

7:33:26I wouldn't change anything, man. And when I say I forgive my dad and I forgive Beach, I forgive them all. Made me into the man that he needed me to be to do the job that he needed me to do.

7:33:51Now every day, every, I talked a lot about Walker, but my other two kids, Lena and And Walker's thing happened at a very young age. And it was a... It happened exactly the way it was supposed to happen. And it happened... God put me where he needed me. Every fuck-up, every mistake, every dumb thing I did, everything I didn't get when I thought I wanted it, he was moving me he was like no you don't get that right now you're gonna get this no no no i need you here no i need you here and i'm blessed on a level that i can't even explain because i had that experience with walker that showed me that truth like i i had this visceral experience i mean i so thankful my faith is unshakable I don't I don't believe I know I don't

7:35:24I have something that is the greatest gift that I could anybody could ever wish for in this experience God is real man it's so real and he's so beautiful and I think the awakening that's happening right now is I'm just not just me I think it's happening all over the world

7:36:00and I think things are going to get crazy in the next decade

7:36:08and I don't know what that looks like as a dad keeps me up at night but I want everyone to know no matter how crazy it gets God is real but just look for him it's a great message

7:36:38you're a good dad Ben

7:36:44all the lessons you learned from your dad

7:36:55you're paying it forward

7:37:00trying

7:37:04parenting it's a hands down the hardest job on planet earth At least in Afghanistan, you know who the enemy is.

7:37:20Anyway, I came here to tell that story because I think the world needs it right now. And not just because it's mine, it's just because I think that I got lucky. I held on I listened to the voices I embraced the struggles

7:37:45it's not all rainbows and unicorns it didn't just go away now magically floating into the never it didn't get any easier after that and the struggles are real this world that that Locke's living in and Lena and Tanner are walking into. Like, it's getting crazier by the minute. It's going to be like all this ride that we're on as a family is just unbelievable. But that's the only lesson that matters. That's it. You want to know what this whole thing is, this whole experience, this whole human experience is the pursuit of him. That's it. that's it that's all you gotta do

7:38:41that's the secret sauce

7:38:47you know I don't know what the right names are you know

7:38:58sometimes I have a tough time with the name Jesus because I feel like it's been used poorly I call him Yeshua

7:39:19done well my friend

7:39:25you've done well I got one last question yep your mom yeah what would you say to her

7:39:54I don't think I need to say anything to her I think she's been with me the whole time

7:40:01I think she was sitting right next to me today and every day of my life. I don't think that I know that.

7:40:20That means you're at peace. Yeah.

7:40:27Yeah, man.

7:40:39I think back to everybody who was always dangling faith in front of me. So many people prayed for me over all these years. People are randomly coming to me, I pray for you. I'm like, don't waste your prayers on me when you're young. and, you know, the McWatters, Marty, I hope she sees this. She's the one that took me to Rome and Magigore.

7:41:14This whole experience, that's all it is, man. People are like, I'm always looking for my purpose. Like your purpose is to love God. Your calling, that's different. But if you stay true on your purpose, then he'll put you where he needs you to do the things he needs done. And if you can stay present in the moment

7:41:42and bring him close to you, then you got nothing to worry about. And death isn't scary. none of it is you know like that that lightness just the happiness just the calm it comes with that feeling that like that moment and I gotta find it there's times when I get spun up and I move in different directions and I get But that book, that is like a lifeline for me. It brings me back. It's a reminder. He's with you.

7:42:37We're all just so lucky to have this. We create our own experiences. We manifest this. You don't believe that. we make we're here to we're humans having a spiritual experience i'm sure spirits having a human experience not humans having a spiritual experience and when you realize that you know i think like

7:43:05vibrationally obviously i love music but you know like everything's vibration everything's energy vibrating and quantum physics everything's a frequency yeshua is a frequency you know like the kundalini awakening is the opening of the the christ consciousness within you and when that christ consciousness the holy spirit enters you then it can work through you and we're made in God's image, right? And a glove is made in God's image. But a glove without a hand in it's just a glove. And when that Christ consciousness is ignited within you, it allows the Holy Spirit inside of you. And that's what it is.

7:44:00It's God the Father is everything. The Son is the Christ consciousness. And the Holy Spirit is him working in his followers. Jesus is a frequency man. Tune your instrument. You tune your instrument to him. Keep that thing tuned up. And the chords sound right.

7:44:29That's, you know, he said the kingdom of God is within you. He was a teacher. He always said, you're gonna do greater things than I ever did.

7:44:46I think he left a blueprint, what to become. If this world was, I just think about like, if there were eight billion Jesuses walking around this place would be awesome. Right? Right? We wouldn't have any problems. He's the only one. I know. But what he was saying is, dude, I set the bar. You guys match it. There can be eight billion of you.

7:45:25We can't. We can't hit that bar. All we can do is try. That's the point. That's the experience. That's it, man. It's a pursuit. We've already fucked it up. Maybe.

7:45:50Maybe.

7:45:55But that doesn't mean you stop trying. You can't quit. Never quit. you get knocked down, you get back up, you push forward. That's right. That gremlin that lives inside you that refuses, that kept you in the cold water a little bit longer, that little thing, he's useful. The ego is not the demon. You need him. You need him in check. You need to be able to see where he is and how to use him when you need him. and then you need to know when he's crossed the line and he needs to go into time out for a little bit. You need to be able to recognize that your body is inside of your soul. You know, my daughter is the most beautiful thing the universe has ever created.

7:46:51I mean that. She was born with her soul on the outside of her body and it's so cool. she is like just your daughter I would say like you don't know what true love is until you have a daughter because it eliminates that part and it's just like god I can just sit there and just watch her when she talks I don't care what she's talking about I'm like keep going like I just love you you know

7:47:40my youngest tan man he's got an over developed sense of justice and a healthy disregard for authority wired like a frog man I love watching him play hockey not being present man being being there sitting on set you know I think in life you have you have jobs you have pursuits you have jobs and you have roles and pursuits I tell people when they're young find your pursuits for me it was music and skiing no matter where I was in life I found something to slide down and a song to play, guitar. Music was there. It's carried me. It's been a pursuit. And it's led me to different jobs. Same thing with skiing.

7:48:34It led me to jobs. But then at a certain point, you realize you fill roles. And being on set for me, that's not a job, but it's being there is a role that I want that has nothing to do with money you realize that like the role you play we're all actors we're all actors in this big thing we're all playing different roles what role do you want to play what role is the one that means something outside of jobs like your jobs come and go like you figure out your roles any job will do you know and those those pursuits are important chase those when you're young they'll take you places but then find the jobs are good but find the roles you want and focus on those was being a dad or being a husband i think the real mission is peace of mind

7:49:45yeah yeah you get too wrapped up in possessions money yeah shit like that but that doesn't bring you peace of mind no and that's the real winner when you can sit with yourself yeah at peace more peace of mind you have the less shit you need you don't need any shit exactly exactly gets a

7:50:20it's such a beautiful thing and you just see all of the teachings fall into place you know what I mean I do I'm looking at the Bible connection on the wall it's just like yeah

7:50:43they gave you the playbook it's all been done man yeah well Pete I think this is the end my man I think it is thank you it was an honor honor to be here it's an honor to tell you this story thank you I love you dude I love you brother

7:51:28I'm Sean Ryan, former Navy SEAL, CA contractor, and host of The Sean Ryan Show. Much of my life has been dedicated to seeking truth and getting answers no matter how uncomfortable the questions are that we have to ask. But in the age of the PSYOP, that search has never been more difficult.

7:51:57In September of 2022, the U.S. Army's fourth PSYOP group released a cryptic video on YouTube. There is another very important phase of warfare. It has as its target, not the body, but the mind of the enemy. Between clips of troops assembling chess pieces and social unrest,

7:52:25phrases begin to appear on screen. They ask, have you ever wondered who's pulling the strings? These are the Psi War soldiers. The series you're about to listen to is an attempt to answer that question, and an even bigger one. The global power brokers that conduct psychological operations constantly evolve. Technology like AI has evened the playing field, and now, in the era of social media, in the democratization of information, all it takes to conduct a psyop is a smartphone. Like and subscribe. In each episode, we look at a different method of psychological operations, how they've evolved and how they are being deployed.

7:53:10There's a quote that is attributed to a scientist named E.O. Wilson that says, We are drowning in information while starving for wisdom. This is a life raft in that sea of both information and misinformation.

7:53:31PSYOPs are all around us. They're conducted by corporations, governments, activist groups, intelligence agencies, foreign adversaries, and anyone who knows how to shape perception to get what they want.

7:53:52The series provides an in-depth look at how these psyops work from conversations with whistleblowers, experts, historians, tech innovators, and more. We look at world events that are being shaped by highly constructed psychological operations specialists and look at the terrifying possibilities of where this could all be headed. Along the way, you'll learn about everything from Russian troll farms, fake ghosts in the jungles of Vietnam, and mind control cults to the CIA's involvement in Hollywood. Do you have any people paid by the CIA who are working for television networks? The early history of psyops and psychological experiments laid the foundation for what we see today in modern campaigns that seek to divide culture over polarizing issues.

7:54:52We look at where we are and how we got here. But ultimately, this series is a toolkit to help you understand how you're being manipulated and how to spot the signs of a psyop. Before the Army's viral PSYOP recruitment video ends, the words on screen inform viewers that war is evolving and all the world's a stage. This series is a peek behind the curtain. Welcome to the PSYOP. Buy it today at PSYOPshow.com. Most people don't realize how much their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions, pulling details about you from public records and the internet, and then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent.

7:55:44That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. It's why you get endless robocalls and why ads seem to follow you everywhere. That's where Aura comes in. Aura actively removes your data from broker sites and keeps it off. They also instantly alert you if your information shows up in a breach or on the dark web. But Aura goes beyond data protection. With one app, you get a VPN, antivirus, password manager, spam call protection, dark web monitoring, and even up to$5 million in identity theft insurance, all backed by 24-7 U.S.-based fraud support. Other companies might sell just credit monitoring or just a VPN.

7:56:20Aura gives you all of it, together, at the same price competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at Aura.com slash remove. Protect yourself now at Aura.com slash remove.