#254 Brian Harpole - Groundbreaking Evidence From Charlie Kirk’s Head of Security

35:51we know their kids' names and spouses. And it's like, if they're doing it and they're not, they wouldn't have time for us not to notice. And then the heart of these men, they're going to pour this out. It's like, we all, you took an oath. I've taken an oath. Most of my guys have taken an oath. And it's different in the security industry. You know, you're not taking an oath for your client. but you are taking a note to each other. And so they wouldn't do that to the client, but they really wouldn't do it to me or to their co-worker. And so that's one of those things. It's like, no, if you know us, those allegations become even more idiotic.

36:41Yeah. And you say this with 100 % certainty? To my death. Roger that. To my death. Let's move into the threat assessment and the pre-planning for the event. Absolutely. How many days prior were you guys there? We generally have the permitting process and all that goes on behind the scenes. And then there's a questionnaires that are filled out that we used to. There was a lot of busy work. And so, you know, kind of like in the military, what you did, we create forms that, hey, let's get this information up front. and so that we have a duplication process so that we can confirm it. And so we started our first before that one the 24th of the month prior.

37:31And that was with the hard conversations, meetings. You started that on the 24th? Right. That's two weeks. It started before that with the intelligence gathering and all that. But the hard conversations, the sharing of information, the conference calls, the data sheets, and we put that in a timeline on an app so that this all goes up. And every guy that's on that job can see all the intel that comes in. It's a decentralized command model for the company. And so anybody can make command decisions for the betterment of the client or the team. And so everything goes on that app. And so when I get it, they get it.

38:21And whoever's gathering that intel, it gets it. There's no hold. There's no power hold on it. And so that first information came in on the 24th, and then the information share starts, where we're walking through everything that you need for a detail, the site plan, point of contacts, emergency fallback locations, hard rooms, arrival points, hospital, you name it, fire department, jurisdictional authorities, all that comes in on an intel sheet and gathered. And then it's in that quick reference app. So any guy can get it at any time they want to. And then we can share it at any time. We can add people into it, take people out of it.

39:08And so we found Also, that we utilize that format, and it shows that we do, it can timestamp our due diligence also. And so that's why we use that as opposed to just, you know, sharing it back and forth or doing it on a whippet pad. So we have that in real time, and so that starts then. What kind of, I mean, at the beginning when I was kind of looking into this before I realized, I'm never going to find any answers. We've seen a lot of Charlie's friends, people that are in the media, you know, come out and say Charlie had very specific concerns about Israel. And that his opinions were changing about Israel.

40:04And that he had expressed concerns about this to various media personalities. You know, my question is, is the man that owns the company that's in charge of his security detail and you are the head guy on his security detail. Were there any concerns about that or any other organization, political party, foreign nation? Did he express any of those concerns to you? No. And Dan works for Turning Point as their security guy. And so Dan feeds down that to us, to our contracted security, which is us for integrity. And so nothing had ever come now from Dan, from Charlie down to us about that. Now, at the same time, you've got to look at the world we live in, and that's a reality.

41:01It's a reality that an organization, whether it be a hate group of any type, could want to hurt anybody. Not necessarily Israel, but we look at mathematics, too, and there's probabilities and possibilities, right? And I look at the probabilities. The possibilities are infinite. and the probabilities are that it's not. The probabilities are the people that want to hurt him are the people that are there screaming things at him in front of us half the time. And so we have to look at those probabilities and the mathematics. We look at the possibilities too. And those possibilities, I'm sure, are out there, but we've never got any detail or intel to show that yet we should look into this deeper.

41:47I mean, it's just, it is very interesting that if he was that concerned, about foreign nations or opposite political affiliations, I mean, if he was that concerned, I don't know why that wouldn't have been disseminated down to the security detail. I mean, I have a security detail, and if I feel that there is a threat, even if it's just a feeling, that's the first people that I tell is my security detail. We looked at all that, and you can go back and look at his speeches. And Charlie was an absolute supporter of Israel. And then he would say, and they would ask him why. And so, you know, we're in those things and we're listening, but at the same time you're looking, but you hear these things and you hear them over.

42:36And I can remember him saying, you know, he was a supporter of it because, one, a nation should be able to defend itself after they've been attacked. Two, Charlie was a devout Christian to the point that he gave his life for it. And he referenced this, and I heard him reference it, where those places that are our holy land are being taken away from us and not being able to visit, and that you can't go there. And so that protection of Israel was important to him in those holy sites. And he'd been there. And so he had talked about being there and how it changed his life. And so that's why those sites in that area was important for him to protect.

43:17Now, how you can derive Israeli hitmen out of that, I have no idea. But we have never received anything from the FBI, which they were pretty good about sharing information, Secret Service, because of the Charlie Circle. and we had never received anything from anybody that was credible that was saying that groups of that entity was a threat to him. We received other threats all the time. What kind of threats? They come in all the time. And so you've got to look at them. Are they First Amendment or are they actual threats? Mm-hmm. And so, you know, First Amendment threats would come in, and these people have disgusting...

44:11They're like, Charlie, I can't wait till you come to, you know... It was some care on the West Coast. I can't remember what town it was, but I can't wait till you come to this town so that I hope somebody shoots you in the head and we can pee in the hole. You know? What? Yeah, yeah. It's like, where do you get this kind of stuff? Man. And so, where do you... And where are you benefiting from it, right? And so am I going to spend an exorbitant amount of time with a possibility that I don't have any tangible intel on and haven't received any? Or am I going to put my eggs into this basket that is a probability right here?

44:52You know, and so it's probable these people are doing it with bomb threats routinely, physical, you know, threats to person. And so you got to look at all these things and work those angles. And, you know, Dan did that meticulously, and he shared that information with us. And so if that came in, we got it, and we never got anything that no Mossad or nothing that was never, not once. Did anybody, I mean, you know, I've interviewed a lot of warfighters. I'm a warfighter. A lot of times somebody on the team will have some type of a feeling or a premonition or, you know, hey, we shouldn't be here right now or something's about to happen.

45:37I don't have a good feeling about this. Did anybody here on your team or Charlie, anybody express any concerns about that day? On that day, for us personally, when you walk in and, you know, we talk about workup, right? So we start the back workup. And then we're a little different also as far as our guys don't just get to show up. The team goes out and we physically build all of our prevention model. So they don't show up and just see it. They physically build it. And we walk through with each other and we make sure things are done right. And so our guys are pulling bike racks and putting them together, and they're putting tape up, and they're looking at places all around the bubble that our area of responsibility is.

46:24And so, you know, they're looking around thinking, God, this is horrible. You know, we're – it's a beautiful amphitheater there at UVU, but, you know, you're a tactician. If you're somewhere and you're covered from an elevated position from 180 degrees, it's horrible. and that's where we were. But that's come out. Why would they have it there? This is ignorance. It's a security fail. And I'm like, well, one, that's where they told us we had to have it. We weren't optioned out anywhere else. There's a permit you have to get. And the school says, nope, this is where you have to have it. We don't get to argue with them.

47:05We don't get to say, no, But that's it. This is where you put it. This is where you have to do it. And then secondarily, Charlie liked it. It wasn't ticketing. You didn't have gates. People, regular people showed up. And we had spoke to him about it before. And it's like, man, this is getting dangerous, you know. And his response was, I know. And so it's like, but if you ticket it and you make people jump through hoops to come in or pay or go through magnetometers, then the people with opposing views don't show up. And then there's no conversation. And when there's no conversation, there's more division.

47:52And his goal was to have less division through conversation. And so the easiest way to get that was to open it up. And so, and that's not the first, I mean, UVU was an open air, but we did San Francisco where we had a street takeover and people trying to climb over fences, and our primary and secondary exfil got compromised, and so it was bad. Wow. And so we've had New Mexico where we had no law enforcement assistance, not last year, year before, and we end up physically just fighting our way out of there. And so it's like, we get it, the risk. But his response and his mentality was that this is worth it.

48:46We're making gains here. in your coordination with uvud i mean did they offer any assistance anything at all yeah did you ask them of anything absolutely so we come in and we start looking at things immediately like where's our where are our risks you know we're it's a risk assessment when we come in that's why we get there that's why we start doing the advance so early we walk it you know We build it ourselves. And so initially, we have, I spent thousands of dollars on drones last year and got the guy's license. But if the area lies in the Provo, Utah airspace, I can't fly it. That's a 107B. We can't break the rules, right?

49:34And then you had secondary restrictions probably due to heavy foot traffic for the school. But I can't go in and break the rules. There's laws for a reason. And so now the school could have flown drones, the PD, but they didn't have them, right? And then so, but Orem PD has a drone unit, active and professional. And that police department, I will tell you right now, is awesome. They are, they get it. They were there. They helped both on the soft side and the hard side. And so I started asking questions like, you guys have a drone unit? Yeah, yeah, yeah, good, good. Do you have an MOU or a mutual aid agreement with the school?

50:17And they're like, yeah. I said, did they call you and ask for assistance? No. I'm like, why wouldn't you call? And then so, you know, that's one. So I can't go in and break the law. I can't make my guys break the law. I can't go in and do something that would jeopardize their career. Do you have any idea why they would say no? I mean, did they, was this malicious? Was this being malicious towards Charlie? I don't know if it knows the right one. I would say, did you ask? Did you ask this awesome PD that would probably help you in a heartbeat, that you have an MOU with, did you even ask him? And the answer was, from them, we didn't get asked.

51:03We didn't get asked. And then so table the drones, which would have been awesome, absolutely. I believe in them, but I can't break the law to do it. We're out there not only protecting them physically, but I have to protect the reputation of the client also. And that's a whole separate thing of protection. So the drones would have been awesome, but I can't break the law. They could have used them. They chose not to. And you got Overwatch, you know. Yeah, snipers on roofs. I got guys that are qualified. That's their career. But this is not a State Department job. I don't have an ITAR, and this is in Iraq.

51:46This is Utah. I can't go in and set up observation points with snipers. That's against the law. I can't break federal and state law to do what we need to accomplish.

52:00So that's their job. Our job is the close protection bubble. And there's a saying on this. And there's areas of responsibility, and we cut up the areas of responsibility in this pre-meet, or when we start doing the advance. We've got this, you've got this. And so they have that overwatch capability, and they have an MOU for SWAT for that through Orem, not utilized. Don't know why? That's a question for them to ask. Why didn't you call? Why didn't you ask for assistance, especially when this crowd grew and grew and grew? I mean, good police tactics. If you're out and you have six guys that show up and all of a sudden this thing goes from 1 ,500 to 2 ,000 to 3 ,000 people, you go, hey, we need some help.

52:56From all your pride or whatever it is, we need some help. I took 12 guys there. I had double the amount of people there that the PD had. And we're only responsible for the first 30 meters and moving in and advancing and receiving and out. And we had 12 guys. They gave me six for the rest of the campus.

53:22Jeez. Yeah. And so that's not the question for me to say, why didn't they? That's the question for them. And so there was that one, the site. Man, it wasn't up to us. Two, drones. I can't break the law to do something I want to do. Otherwise, I'd have showed up with an APC. Well, with the drones, I mean, you were in coordination with local police department, correct? No, the UVU has jurisdictional authority. It's their campus. Orem is the outside city. They weren't there because they hadn't asked. They hadn't been asked to come. And we can't ask them to come. I can't call Orem PD and say, hey, man, send me 10 guys.

54:06I can't do that. I don't have the authority to do that or the budget. But the city, I mean, the school PD has an MOU or mutual aid agreement with them. Why not just call them and say, can you guys send us 10 guys over here for overwatch, all that? And I say that only because we had previously talked about areas of responsibility. and then the areas of responsibility and and i had a and our guys all have not only an area of responsibility but there's a job in a job so you have your area and you have a job for that area but then you also know the guy's area and job next to you in case he goes down or something you have to backfill him and then we have the bubble around the protectee and mathematically 2 000 people are in front of you, where's mathematically the threat coming from?

55:05The front. Right. And so we're looking for walk-ups. You know, people walk up, sitting down a package, walking away, displaying a firearm, everything from throwing balloons full of piss to muriatic acid. We've had all kind of stuff thrown on us over the years. And so there's a reason why those things are set up that way. And there's a reason why those guys that day were set up around there. Every guy has a job. Every guy has a detail. Every guy knows the guy's job next to him. And so we have that set. And then we, other people, have areas of responsibility. Well, the Monday before the event, we were still working through the arrival.

55:56And so we have concerns with rooftops. I mean, we've got a location that we're not keen with. We know what our responsibility is. We know what our statutory authority is. We know that we can't go up and set up our guys in sniper observer positions. It's not going to be allowed. And so we have some correspondence with the chief of the school. on that day, on Monday before Charlie was killed. And why this hadn't come out and why he won't stand up like a man and admit this, I don't know. But he's watching a bunch of men lose their careers. And he's okay with it. On Monday before, this correspondence went to Chief Long.

56:50Hello, Chief Long. We received this message today from the student group. So there is a student roof access pretty close to where CK will be set up at the Utah Valley. The Sorensen Center has a couple of staircases that go up to walkways on the roofs. He comes back and for edification, the Sorensen Center was the building in front of the Lucy Center. And so he comes back and says, you want access to the roof? and came back and said, I was told students have access above us. If this is true, it would be nice to either have it controlled access or allow one of my guys to be there as well if possible.

57:38He comes back and his last correspondence was, I got you covered.

57:48What else am I to do? When a command level person from an accredited police department says, I've got this area. Jeez. Have you been in con—who was that? That was the chief of police for the UVU police department. We've called him. He's never called us back. Holy shit. does he have a name chief long chief long and and i didn't know if it said deputy in that or not because in in the uh in the uh correspondent or in his stuff on the website it says deputy chief long but we just called him chief long so so it's like yeah i i got guys that are 10 times more qualified than what he could have produced for us probably.

58:41So literally all they had to do is post anybody at that stairwell. Stairwell? Or put a drone up. Or let us. Let you do your job. Or let us. You know, our team is built. Would it be okay if we put that screenshot of that text? Absolutely. For everybody to see so they know it's real. Absolutely. And do a FOIA for his phone. That's a good idea. Do a FOIA. Do a FOIA for his phone and have those records put out so everybody can see them. Do a FOIA for the communications for days leading up to it. Do it. And the truth's like a line. You set it free and it'll fight for itself. One of my favorite sayings.

59:34Last question before we take a break. I just want to ask, were you understaffed or, I mean, was anybody sick? Did you have what you needed? Yeah, we usually had been— This was the same as every other event. No, no, we upped it. You upped it? Yeah, we upped it. We usually would run eight to nine, depending on how many movements and how much movement inside. And so based on no articulable threat, but just the current world situation prior to that day, we upped the manpower to 12. And then we had actually a 13 there that came in the dry party. And so, but yeah, we upped it based on nothing because it's like, all right, we're in a kind of a place where we don't want to be.

1:00:27We're expecting a big crowd is the first one. We don't want to get behind the eight ball. We in security industry, it's a prevention industry, not a response industry. It is a response industry, but it should be a prevention industry. So we're there in the prevention model. And so you can see if you pull the schematic up, the placement I put for our guys. And on that day, thank goodness we had them because where the tent was that Charlie was under, there was a giant walkway above him. And when we were doing the walk in that morning, one of the things that didn't come out in our advance was there was giant rocks that they used for architectural design all around there.

1:01:13And so we're seeing these rocks on the ground. And it's like, oh, people can come by and pick up these rocks and then throw them down on us and throw them down on Charlie. And so we did a temporary criminal trespass zone right above him on that bridge walkway so that people couldn't come in it and throw rocks down on him. And so but the problem is that we had to get PD units in here to take that area of responsibility. And we told them, hey, just like out there, we need you here to have oversight coverage because, one, it's a tape line. It's not a hard, you know, wall or anything. And so you need statutory authority under Utah law to say, hey, you can't come in or you can be arrested.

1:01:59And so the PD came and did that. And then we had one. I get calls all the time. And they're like, hey, we want to run a security detail. and we want, you know, 10 guys, former SEALs and operators and SWAT guys, and we want up-armoreds and this and this. And I'm like, all right, you know, here's what it's going to cost. And they'll call back, all right, we want one guy and a Toyota Sienna, you know. And so, budget's a factor. Yeah. And we eat a lot of money every year based on, you know, hey, last minute, non-approval of people, but let's bring them in just to save our asses. And that's a regular thing.

1:02:39And so, yeah, we had people for our assignment, and our assignment and our people's assignment was carried out meticulously. I mean, you had Dan next to Charlie, and Dan's only job is exfil. And you can see when Charlie got shot, within two seconds, Dan had his hands on him to push down to the ground. And then within, you break it down forensically, like within five seconds, I was on top of Charlie. And then you saw our team actually doing exactly, falling back on top of him and collapsing back on top of him. Not one radio comms came out. It's unneeded. They all know their jobs. Let's take a quick break.

1:03:24And when we come back, we'll get into actions on. Okay. Perfect. Yeah.

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1:08:27And like I said earlier, the guys are all part of it. So there's intimate knowledge. Every guy has intimate knowledge of the setup. So we come in, we do the placement of where Charlie's going to speak from. And that's kind of like the ground zero. And then we build out from that. And people in the security industry, you have this thing called the concentric circle of security theory, right? And it doesn't have to be a circle. It could be a line or a moving box or however you want to work it. And you have zones, and you have a permeable zone, a semi-permeable zone, and a non-permeable zone. And so you can come in on the fly and set up these zones.

1:09:04And so we come in and we set this up. So Charlie's tent was on that right in the middle, and then we start. So you want to start at the very back. And so we started with a non-permeable zone, but it was one of those ones where it's mainly visual, and it's just tape across this arrival section. And all it is is caution tape, but it's just to keep good people good. That's it. We know that. And so that's just to let people, the foot traffic out that we know people won't come in there so that if somebody's doing something bad, they stick out. And then inside that zone, we place our vehicles, and you can kind of see it on the aerial, or you can see it when you see the footage.

1:09:51We put those vehicles behind Charlie's where he's speaking for a reason that day. It's called SEPTED, Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design. A worry was that somebody would come down that same driveway and just run us, run him over from the back, or run people over. So you stack those vehicles so that the vehicles are being used kind of like big HESCOs or something. Barricades. Yeah, barricades. And so that people can't get to them that way. And then we start then technically that's, you know, semi-permeable. We still cover it. It's like, hey, people could walk through there, but they have to be knowns.

1:10:30And then we went with hard bike racks. So hard bike racks then come all the way across the back, and they're linked together. And so those bike racks keep people from coming in and out unless they're vetted. And that's where you would start the non-permeable zone. And then we put a guy there, and he physically is there to watch that. His job, that's his area of responsibility, is he's back cover. He's making sure people aren't coming up from behind us. He's making sure that the right people can come in and out. They don't have to be back there. And we're not talking about a large area. We're talking an area that was maybe 100 feet across, maybe more.

1:11:08And then there was also a police officer back there. We didn't request him to be there, but he showed up. And so we're like, hey, might as well utilize you. And so he just held the position on the far left side. And then you get where the tent is. And then this kind of where it gets into the meat and potatoes of it, because number one rule of protection detail work is evade and escape. Like, it is, if we can evade or escape any threat without having to confront it, it's a win. I told you that time about getting shot at with a shotgun. I was pissed because I didn't get to shoot the guy back. And I went back to the PD, and I'm throwing shit and whatever.

1:11:52And my sergeant said, hey, man, you won. You didn't get shot at, or you didn't get shot. he's in jail you won well that's kind of the way you have to look at that stuff in protection works like hey let's let's evade and escape and so things are set up that way and so you have where charlie sits and then you have a guy right next to him and that person's solely responsible for in times of need pushing him moving him getting him out of that line of fire or that uh um that those actions you know escaping evade throwing him into that exfil vehicle that's parked right behind where we're at. And then you'll see we ran two double barricades.

1:12:35And those barricades are presidential-style barricades. They're hooked in, the same kind you see the Secret Service use. And so we have an outer layer. And that first layer is just to let everybody know, hey, you can't cross this. And they're physically, you know, keeps them from pushing over them. And if somebody comes over the top of them, you can see it just from the mere elevation change. And then we create a secondary row of them with a gap in the middle of it. And that gap in the middle, though we didn't like it, he liked that because that was able to show, hey, there's nothing between us, right?

1:13:10There's nothing between us. Let's carry out this conversation. But so I have two guys that are at that gap. And they come up and one One of them is a measure of a man who has physical capabilities that are incredible. And then the one on the right side is a jujitsu guy, a world-renowned professor. And so their job is if somebody tries to press through that gap or get close to him, then they're going to hold them up. And then just off their flanks are two other guys, Blake and Blake. And those guys' sole job is to control access into that alley. And also, if somebody tries to breach the integrity of those two guys, they're there to apply violence so that they can hold that and we won't weaken our stance.

1:14:02So those jobs are a response to apply violence on those people that are trying to weaken our stance. And then they're also access control into that little alley we've created. you. That alley creates a secondary gap, but it also allows us to vet people, make sure, nope, you can't bring packages in, no water bottles, check for protrusions, all that. And so when they come through there, and they're the gatekeeper there, right? So on that one side, he comes in, he makes sure, and then they come down, he passes off to the next guy, and he comes up to the microphone and speaks. And then when he's done, he goes out the other side, and that guy makes sure he moves on.

1:14:46And then that guy, Blake, on the other side, makes sure he goes all the way out. And so they have, those guys are dual-rolled, wear them up, they're there. If these guys have problems, they're going in to apply violence so that we don't lose any integrity of our protection so we can facilitate escape. And then they're also gatekeepers. And then you get deeper in the crowd and there's the guys that, what they're looking for is walk-ups. the guys that are walking up close. They're in the crowd. They're in the crowd. They're working. Plain clothes. Yeah, they're playing clothes. They're working in the crowd.

1:15:22And Rick's over there. And Rick's job is to watch what's going on here and in turn and apply and look at the line. And you look for things like military-age males that aren't having social contact with other people. So they're up there, but there's no looking around. There's no talking. They got prey gaze on the guy who's talking, no blinking. So there's a hard prey gaze, no blinking. Or when you get close, there's excessive blinking. And so that's a good tell right there of a pre-incident indicator of violence. These guys are out there doing that. All of them are doing it in real time. And so, and you're looking for that.

1:16:03And how many of those guys are there? uh we have in that right so far we've gone through uh one two three four five six six all right and then so then we got those guys out in the crowd we got scott working it over on the flank to make sure people uh from above are not throwing rocks down on people chris is over there with them you got uh justin and alex holding that hard line you got response to violence guys right here You've got Intel gather a guy out here and making sure there's no walk-ups and or people that would walk up and physically want to apply violence in close proximity. And then you start getting, we had to rotate some guys because we had people coming in and exactly doing that.

1:16:47Started pushing up signs, started chanting, started creating distraction and making problems. So we pushed a couple guys over just to keep an eye on that. and those are guys are doing direct reporting so they're the ones that are saying hey uh it's 14 of them or then you know they're just doing signs and so they're giving us real intel in real time and and these are also the guys that that they're working the outfield and the the these guys are see they're out there for a reason these are seasoned guys these 30-year cops that have had shown and not cops that are just in their checking boxes these are guys that went to work every day, and they're like, my job's to catch bad guys.

1:17:30How do you catch bad guys? By doing work. They're work finders. And so that's why I put them out there, because they know how to go out and find work. They're not going to wait for work to come to them, because it's too late then. An example of that was, before it's even over with, I mean, before it even started, we put those guys out in the crowd, and they're walking around, presence patrol, gathering information. And we saw some guys that were standing up in one, not in the Sorenson Center of Lucy, but another area. And it was a guy that was in his 40s that looked like he obviously wasn't a student or is too old to be a student.

1:18:10He had a backpack, no socialization, wasn't talking to other people. And so we went up and do contact and conversation. Hey, Hal, what's going on? What brought you here today? And then we did that several times. And then we turned all that information over to the FBI. Is that the guy that was, is this the guy that stood up? Okay, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. And so those guys are in real time out in the crowd, because that's our area of responsibility, reporting real-time intel to us. So you guys, if I were to, if I had a schematic of this, of the venue right now, which we'll put one up i mean you have this entire venue broken into zones zones areas you have people scanning different people scanning every every zone's covered from scanning not only do you not have not only do you own not just have scanning you also have actual plain clothes security professionals within the crowd we're all dressed like we're just wearing regular clothes we're not wearing suits and jams.

1:19:18Yeah, I guess I meant detached from the detail. Nobody really knows that they're in the security element. I mean, they look at, they're not, you know, they all have the look, right? But they're not college kids. They're all tasked with an active responsibility for that area of responsibility. And then they overlap. So those areas of responsibility overlap. They don't go 200 meters out because there's a saying that in these guys, I always talk to them about it. We train to it is you have your area of responsibility, but if you're looking out all over this, you're not going to see anything. You got to look at less so you can see more.

1:19:58And so you pare down what you're looking at and you pare down through that area of responsibility so you can see the things that are going on. And once that's cleared, you move to the next one. But if you're just looking out at the mountainside, all you're going to see is the mountainside. And the rooftops were supposed to be covered from the police drones. PD said, I've got you covered. I've got you covered. And so that zone was dropped. Yes. And so that's the assignment of our team. Personal security detail is just that, personal. You know, our mathematics are, there's 3 ,000 people within 50 meters, right?

1:20:44And so we're working that. And then you have that, but then you also have the guys that are inside that bubble. And then I'm off to the right of it. And my area right there is command control. It's, hey, man, we're looking a little weak over here. Or a guy's reporting, I need assistance over here, right? Can you see this? I can't see that. And so we're working in real time on comms for that and or helping fill in a spot somebody gets out of hand. I don't run over and jump on Blake and help Blake because I know Blake's a big boy and he can handle himself. I go back, fill in where Blake just left so that we're not leaving something open to go address a threat.

1:21:27And so unless it's something catastrophic, obviously. And then you saw in the video where something catastrophic happens. There's no chatter needed. There's no talk to be needed. Every guy's done that. We practice that. And there was a radio personality. I won't even say his name because he's not worth it. But he came out and he's like, look at this. These guys are like a football team. You can tell they were zipping and zapping. You can tell they rehearsed this. You can tell they were stayed. This was staged. And I'm like, they didn't even hesitate. And he's sitting there just cracking us because our guys didn't run around like with chickens with their head cut off.

1:22:13And I was like, yeah, we practiced that. How it's supposed to be. When we train, we have iterations, whether it's PT or medical or shooting. And the guy that finishes last, because everything's a competition. because that breeds near perfection. The guy that finishes last, he has to get carried by the team to the next generation. And how do we carry him? The same way we carry Charlie. So that's been done literally hundreds of times. And so you don't need to talk about what you need to do when you know what you need to do. Was there anything strange, anything stand out, anything at all? Or did this just, you know, once you guys were in place, once the event had started, Charlie was speaking?

1:23:06I mean, is there anything that seemed out of place at all? Well, we do the arrival, and we were supposed to do a meet and greet when he first arrived. And that meet and greet was in a hard room. Okay. But the timeline was a little off, so he decided, or they radioed to us, hey, meet and greet's going to be off. And so we're going to run in and use the restroom real quick. and then we're going to go straight to the tent. And so that was a call off, but that's one of those things. It's not abnormal and we're used to that. But it doesn't change the plan other than we're going to a known. Somebody's going to receive him over there.

1:23:44Everything's clear, which it was. So we had a guy back by the restrooms to receive him. I had the door to pop it open. He walks in. He goes, hey, Brian, did you get any sleep? Because we just got back from that South Korea, Japan. And I said, a little bit. And the last thing he ever said to me was, it's going to be a good day. He said, good. I said, a little bit. He said, good. It's going to be a good day. Yeah. And so we used the restroom. And then we did a couple meet and greets with some kids that were student volunteers just by that tape. And so we did a hard line to keep people from walking up.

1:24:28and then we proceeded right to the tent. And so he starts throwing out the hats, which is a thing of his. Guys are already in place at that time. We're comms, we're calling in, hey, walking up, you know, five seconds, ten seconds. They come up, crowd reacts, and then everybody goes to looking in their area of responsibility for, you know, walk-ups, guns, people throwing things, stuff like that. And that would be the area right in front of them. And with the, just one more thing to cover, the evacuation routes. I mean, we had already covered, you guys have been there. You'd had a presence there for two weeks prior to the event.

1:25:06Do you have the routes to all the venues, more specifically the hospital? Do you have multiple routes to the hospital? Yeah, so what we do on that one is, we're not there for two weeks, but we start working that for two weeks. And that all gets plugged in. Where are we going? And the one that we went to was the closest one, but it was a level three. Yeah, we knew that. The next closest one was another seven minutes away. We're going to the closest one, yeah, and we belied it to there. And I'll get into how we got there and what we did on the way in a minute. But, yeah, all that's plugged in, you know, all that is information, and it's known.

1:25:48And we have a guy that, even though that route's pre-done, even though that's known, we still have a guy in there that's calling it out in real time on that right side. I mean, he's NAV, and that NAV is important, you know, because the guy's driving, he's driving. And we needed just an expert drove that day, like, man, yeah, incredible. And so, yeah, all that's known beforehand. hand. And so when people said, oh, you should have an ambulance there. It's like, well, one, I can't make the city put an ambulance there. Now, there is a Utah law that says for mass gatherings like that, a Utah law says that for mass gatherings, a health officer needs to be assigned.

1:26:33I don't assign them. The PD does, whoever does. And then it says in that law, it says that they may determine where an ambulance is on standby. And I'm like, okay, well, they did have standby UTV medical there, but I can't make them make that. And first rule of emergency medicine, when an EMT goes, because I've done this, if you don't walk into the room when you're doing your skills portion and say, hey, is the scene safe? They fail you and you're done. right and so those medics that were around that buggy were nowhere to be found why because they're taking cover like everybody else and so and the type of wound that we had it's not a wait till the ambulance gets there yeah and and i'll talk about that and what that docks and transport and all that so all that was known and all that's done in the workup so looking at hindsight here through the security footage.

1:27:34I mean, it came out that, you know, the shooter went unnoticed at 11.50 a.m. in the grassy area, 12.02 p.m. near the Luce Center, and then at 12.23 p.m. when the shot was fired approximately 142 yards away. What was, you know, what was your immediate response? I'll address the shooter in the timeline first. It's like, you know what I want to know? I want to know when he got on the roof. Because we're shooters. It's easy because we have a range, and our guys do it as a sense of pride. Even though we know we work on all this other stuff more, the shooting we work on because it's a sense of pride.

1:28:25So you look at things like that. In that shooting position, three meters to the right and 10 meters to the left, there was no shot. And so I want to know when that guy got on the roof. Let's put the visual of what that looks like on the screen right now. We took that shot before. Really? We always do. We sat down in the space, and we take the shot and send it back to Charlie so that he can see what he's going to see. Yeah, and that's a routine thing that we do. It's a good idea. Yeah, mental preparation. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So here's a visual of what you guys were able to see. Yep, and so here's my question, and hopefully it'll come out in timeline.

1:29:16All right. We've all seen the pictures of the guy when he came on through the staircase. Mm-hmm. It's like, okay, there's a difference between a guy walking up and getting on a roof and a guy walking up and getting on a roof. And did he run over to a known position? What you're doing there tactically is you're working a loophole. You guys did that on a roof. You bang a hole through one side, you know, and then you step back and you put another hole and you shoot through that hole and that opportunity comes through. This is a big loophole. and so you tell me you just ran up onto a roof pop yourself down in a position that was in a loophole can you can you describe that loophole again real quick just now that we have the visual up so you you you get up on this sorenson center i mean not sorenson lucy center that's behind the sorenson center and so from where we're sitting where we're standing we can't see it one it's not our area of responsibility, so that's why we're not looking there.

1:30:17First one, we're looking at threats right in front of us. You see, how many threats do you have in front of you right here? About 3 ,000. 3 ,000. Right. And so that's what we're looking at. And then it's kind of like, you could be in front of an 18 ,000 foot mountain and there's a 36 ,000 foot mountain behind it. You're not going to see it. And so we have to be cognizant of that. And then if he would have stopped just a little bit to the right, he wouldn't have been able to see it because the source and center would have been in the way. I mean, it's a very specific point. It's not just, which is what I thought.

1:30:55I thought it was just climb on the roof and you've got the vantage point. So you're telling me there's enough blind ass luck that you ran up there, didn't crawl. you didn't you didn't get up he didn't get up there like the secondary guy that tried to shoot Trump where he was bugged down in the weeds for a while this was a boom on boom run to boom take the shot and it's like

1:31:25did you get all that off I mean it had to have been rehearsed to find that to find that which I believe you said is So basically, did you say seven-foot vantage point, basically, head? Oh, I'd have to. It's small. It's small. It's small. There's the visual. Who gives a fuck? It's a small, small area. It's not something. You would have to search for that. You would have to search for that vantage point if you didn't know. So it would be great to see the footage. Maybe it's out there of him running straight to the point, or did he search around looking for it? That's exactly what I want to know.

1:32:02Do we have... It'd be great if that chief of police would have put that fucking drone up. We'd have had it. Or I'd have flown that drone up his ass if we could have had one.

1:32:16So those are questions I have. Those are tactical questions. I mean, we make our guys do that kind of stuff all the time. Yeah, no, you're going to run 300 yards. You're going to jump over this wall. You're going to come home and you're going to take this shot with... Ours is about a 35-foot declination at 200 yards. and you see guys that are even trained miff it every once in a while. And people are like, oh, that's an easy whip at 142. I'm like, yeah, the shot itself, but you're talking about old men that shoot stuff on sandbags. You and I both know under duress, accurate shots are different.

1:32:52It's not a—142 yards is not a difficult shot with a magnifying optic. Not at all. It becomes more difficult when you're winded, when you're climbing, when you're running, when you are nervous. Visual noise all in front of you. When you're about to take a life, when you're wondering if anybody else is seeing you. I mean, there's a lot of induced stress. And, you know, and I just want to, you know, I mean, we're looking at this thing right now, this first-person view of what it looked like from under the tent. And, I mean, I don't know how long he was in that gap for, but it didn't sound like it was very long.

1:33:29and you have 3 ,000 other threats that you're looking at, the rooftop supposedly being covered by the police, maybe it would have been a good idea to confirm that the police had the drones up. But, I mean, you are talking to the chief of police. You would think that he would have the fucking drones up. There were no drones, but then somebody earlier that day flew a drone up. Correct. Yeah. So, actually, you probably wouldn't have confirmed because there are drones up. We didn't know where it came from. and we're like, what's the deal with this? Now, it's not uncommon for the video team to throw a drone up and then take a quick shot, and we've had that before.

1:34:11Now, their drones are different because they use those little bitty ones, and so they're not covered under the requirements. And so it's like, again, yeah, you're right. We, do I need to call a grown-ass man and say, hey, are you doing your job? Do I need to do that? You shouldn't. You know, this is, you know, it's... Especially a man in that position. And it's like, hey, man, I'm not a fan, but, you know, Bill Belichick won for a reason. He told his people, hey, do your job. And, hey, if you don't want to do your job, that's fine. Do the job you said you were going to do. How about that one? So that's kind of where our guys are set up on there.

1:35:01And then I was to Charlie's right. There were a lot of, there's a lot of chatter on the internet about hand and arm signals, you know, from the security team. There's been concerns about it from my own personnel at work here. I've worked security details, done a lot of sniper work. Did you ever use hand and arm signals? I used hand and arm signals every single time on every detail, everywhere I went. And, you know, one of the rumors was, oh, you know, he's got the ball cap. He did the ball cap wiggle. That's the Marine Corps sniper. I've done a lot of sniper operations. Nobody wears ball caps.

1:35:45So that was my lead question. You ever use hand signals? And it's like, yes. Were your hands? And you had already established, I'm going to cover for you here, because this is a rumor that I just fucking hate. I know. Because that is what it takes. You can't be on the radio all the time because you're tying the net up. We had already established that you had other security professionals within the crowd that you're trying to communicate with, and that's how you do it. That is how you do it. Well, I'll speak to this one. You're using hand signals, or if you were to use hand signals, and those are an option, especially like under NVG or things like that.

1:36:31One, are those hand signals normal ones that you would see during normal gesticulation? Are those definitive hand signals? They're definitive so that they can't be confused with a guy scratching his ass. And so that's the first one. The second one is that hand signal, when a bubble team is there, we're not using hand signals. It's not for details, absolutely. Why? Because you can see that. Are we looking around at each other looking for hand signals? We're looking in the front in our area of responsibility. If we needed to relay a message, then we would, hey, right here on comms. and or we're notorious for if I need to get somebody's attention on the team, I'm not going to sit there and use a hand signal if he's in my line of sight.

1:37:21I'm just going to go like that. He's going to look up and I'm going to go. And so if I looked up and did a hand signal on the team and did that or that, he's going to look at me like, so what do you want me to do then? So for that, that's not good communication. It has to be definitive. It has to be necessary. It could be an acknowledgement. I mean, get me out of here. Yep. You're right. Absolutely. Yeah. And what you're doing there is deliberate. Yeah. These are deliberate. You know? Yeah. So, no, we don't use hand signals on that one. We didn't use hand signals that day. We've never used hand signals other than the general ones.

1:38:10Here. two people here. You know, none of that was done. None of that was done. You had Frank Turek and people messing with him because he adjusted his hat. It's like, okay, and substantiate. So he touched his hat. There were a line of people in the front and all the other people that also did all kind of things before that. It's like everybody's subject to that. I get it. And man, I'm not a conspiracy theory guy, but I do believe that there are things out there bigger than you and I that are in operations. It's a fact. I also am a huge believer in the First Amendment. And so these people that are out there saying all this, back up.

1:39:05Why is the First Amendment so, so important? because back in the day when our founding fathers said, man, why do we need this amendment first? And because a voice is an arms for people that don't have arms. That's what it was for. A collective or a single voice could be powerful to a hierarchy of people that can't be conquered with an arm. So we have to have this voice and we have to protect this voice at all costs. And they said, and they wanted us to have that. And that's why they put it first. And it should be used as a shield. Well, nowadays with the media and now social media, that right has been used as a sword.

1:39:58And the sword of public opinion. It's like, hey, well, let's just put a bunch of lies out there and claim First Amendment. and we can say whatever we want. And it's like, when's that stop? And literally, whatever you want. You've seen some of the idiocy out there. Palm gun, exploding microphone, hand signals. It's like, it doesn't even have to be true, and it doesn't matter. And so you're just using that First Amendment as a sword. and not a shield. And we gotta step back at that and look at it. I was talking to you guys earlier, and I was like, at some point, you put those people in the Wayback Machine.

1:40:44And the Wayback Machine is, you take them to 1985. And when people said something that was untrue about you or your family, and they said something bad about you that other people heard, you split their lip. There's a consequence. An immediate consequence. Not a consequence that comes through a lawsuit three and a half years later, an immediate consequence so that a level of respect is gained. And then also, hey, if you do this again, I'll see you next time as well. At some point, some people need to be put in the way back machine. Definitely not going to disagree with you on that one. So let's talk about the immediate response.

1:41:32Let's get back to that. yeah could you tell it was gunfire yes how could you tell um i've been around gunfire my whole life that's the first one and so uh and there's a there's a different type of gunfire right um we were at berkeley last night and um it's a different sound you give you an attribution of sound and so you're used to it and um uh and having a range and and so you're around it and you you even get to like well that was a rifle that's a pistol that's a big boy rifle that's subsonic i mean you you can pid all those with your ear you know i'm no sniper but you're out there hanging out with those guys and you get that sniper's ear pretty quick because they'd say hear that, that's what that is.

1:42:25And so I've got my back to Charlie about, I don't know, less than 10 meters off to his right. And my area of responsibility, just we had a big, a lot of people coming up some staircases there and it was starting to fill in. And so I was watching that. And I remember I heard the gunfire and then, I don't know if you've heard this, but I heard that bullet slap him. And so you hear two sounds actually. And so you hear the actual shot and then you hear the bullet hit him in the neck, like you hear it. And so in my head, I had an attribution to that. Oop, I know what that is. And so I turned and when I turned, probably running, that's when Dan grabbed him.

1:43:22And I mean, this is a live fire event. It's not everybody, everybody thinks in hindsight, well, this is a one shot assassination. Nope. And in our heads, there's fire. You don't know what that is. There's fire. There's more to come. Right. And so Dan grabs Charlie and then Who's Dan? Dan was the guy standing right next to Charlie when he got shot on the stage. And then And I was to the right of Dan. Okay. And so he grabs him. And then I turn and see him start to the ground. But then I'm just thinking gunfire. And then he's leading to the ground because I'm on his right. Well, he was shot right here in the left of his neck.

1:44:08And so I jumped down on top of Charlie to cover him because where we're at, it's concealment at best. It's a tabling with cloth on it, so it's not hardcover. And our guys start piling back in, and they're down, putting a human shield around him, but it's still just concealment. It's not cover. And so I initially dove down on top of him and just was on him almost face to face. And when I was doing that, I went down, I could see the wound. And so I immediately shoved my hand into the wound to stop the bleeding. just trying to find the pressure. And it was coming out still. And I'm on top of him, like, close.

1:44:53And it was still coming out enough that I guess it squirted through my fingers and I could taste it on my lips. And so I was like, man, this is a bad wound, right? And so I was just pushing that. And I don't know at that time. I know when you look at the clock, I was on him within five seconds. It had my hands in him. And then I don't know when I put the first piece of medical on him. It was sometime after that. Because I carry it right here. And that's why you carry it on you. You've got to have it there. But then I remember pulling back away and thinking, damn, this is bad. It's coming out. And I don't remember saying this, but the guys told me, and you can kind of see it on the video.

1:45:47I said, prep the car. And I just prepped it. And you see the two guys just take off. And that car's prepped in position, but wide, I mean, doors are open, the whole deal. And so we're doing pressure control there, and it's a carotid artery, so you can't put a tourniquet on it, obviously. And in my head, I'm like, you know, pack pressure prey, man. These are what you can do for that wound. But then, so I'm on top, and then I told the guys, we've got to exfil. We're all out here in the open. We're trying to give wound care, and we've got to get off this ex. And so, but I just said, we're exfilling.

1:46:32And so we got up, I think it was like 15, 16 seconds from the time the shot happened to the time we were picking him up. 15 to 16 seconds? That's what it was, yeah. And so. That's fast. Yeah. And this is horrible. But it's fast to get an initial assessment, plug a hole, pick them up, move them. Yeah. And so it's just like, dang. And it's some horrible realities of it, too, that, like, I told the guys this, and I haven't.

1:47:16You, uh, when I jumped down on him, he had doll's eyes. And so I was like, man, these are wounds incompatible with life. You knew.

1:47:32Yeah. You want to take a break? Yeah. Let's take a break.

1:47:41You want a minute? Good.

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1:51:50sorry about that man dude yeah yeah yeah it's fine it's it's mainly the uh

1:52:00it's going through your head like i said i was like man this this is a bad wound it's it's not compatible with life and that's an old medical phrase that you use and for reporting later and i mean i hate to get graphic but that's yeah no no that's how you do it absolutely i remember yeah the eye thump yep and so there's no movement after you thump the eye that is it's done same thing and so at the time i mean i broke down just then but i think some some of my close friends had told me i didn't i didn't weep a tear after that for like three weeks not you know it's like hey man you know it's like yeah there's a time for that you know these guys The guys, me, the guys I'm with, we've seen a lot of effects of violence.

1:52:49Messed up kids, guys that stick things into kids and just horrible people, right? You compartmentalize that junk, right? So that you can, you got a job to do. And then sometimes those things, when you open that box, they come out, right? And that was one of them. So, you know, I'm sure it's good for me at some point. Uh, but, uh, so we get back to that and so I'm down on him and, and, and I, I don't know if I, when that sprayed me in the face, it caused me to flinch back or what, but then sometime around then I said, hey, prep the car and you see two of the guys just take off towards the car. And then, uh, Gibby and Rick and Dan and we, and me, we, I said, hey, that's ex-filled now, you know?

1:53:40And, And so we get up and the timeline on that's like 15, 16 seconds, something like that, where you can see we're prepping. But the problem is direct pressure, right? So when you're in a medical deal and you've been in, I've had these before on major accidents and GSWs when you show up on calls is you can't give direct pressure and move, right, in exfil. And you can't, you have to have counters, like giving CPR. You can't give people CPR like that. you have to have something so it's like hey okay well let's just get in the car you can't yeah but then you can't apply direct pressure to move either because it's the neck and there goes the airway right and so it's just a it's it's damn near the worst and then i like place and then you you don't give first aid when it's raining on you still right or this first shot second shot how many more is coming in so you know and so so i was like hey let's just call for Rexville so I called for Rexville and so they let's go the guys had prepped the car so we're carrying we we trained officer down I don't know how many times or you know person down and we were carrying and you can see it on the video Rick breaks off at the perfect time he goes around to the other side jumps in we do the drag don't try to shove the guy in half the team pushes in the other half team drags from the other side there's no comms for that just knew he knew that's what we need to do.

1:55:04We've done that. He's done that. We've got careers built on doing that, real time and in training. And so guys weren't helping. Justin gets in. He knows his job's a drive. You know, that's his job. Dan jumps in. He knows he's nav. And so we're back there. Rick, we pull him across. Frank Turek, it just jumps in the back. And so he's a known. So I was like, it's Frank, but I'm not going to fight him on it. Frank's there because Frank's hurting, you know, and it's one of those things where you have dead kids on calls and you're not supposed to let the crime scene be contaminated, but I'm not going to deny a parent the ability to come in and say goodbye to their child.

1:55:49And Frank's many times said that Charlie felt like he was his son. I'm not going to deny him that. All this is running. And so we get in. Charlie was a big man, long. We kind of laugh about it now, but we get him in, but the door's not going to close. We know that. And I just said, go. And we didn't even attempt to close it. I told Justin, go, go, go. So he takes off. Dan's already got the route done. We know that because we've done it, and so we take off in direct action. We get out onto the main road, and we're in a slick SUV, no light sirens, and so we're breaking our own intersections. We're cutting our own traffic.

1:56:43We're doing everything ourselves. Justin's driving. I mean, he's a trained driver. I mean, that's what our guys go to driving school for, just for that. It's expensive. It costs a lot. It's a need and it paid off because he drove like a champion Dan's up in there calling out right lefts where this is next turn 20 meter, you know 200 meters left So he knows exactly where he's going Rick and I are in the back This is where it gets not funny, but you look back on it now We've Rick pulled Charlie across and then I'm working off my kit and uh you always when you build a kit out like that you build it to where the stuff you need the soonest or most important is on the outside right and so all the bleed control is right here in front so i'm just working out of the out of the kit right there and um um so i'm just you know packing pressure repack it gets it gets saturated you don't take it out you just keep packing on top of it.

1:57:51The problem is we're going down the road and Charlie's so tall that his leg, his left leg is down in the door and the door won't close. And so I'm on my knees with the door open with my butt hanging out at the side and I'm on my knees doing the medical and Justin's driving, you know, we're going 60 80 100 and rick has me across the kit and my shirt so that i can use both hands to do the medical one and so don't fall out of the car so i don't fall out and i just look at him and i don't need to say you got me he's got me i know he's got me rick's a brother he's got the tattoo and so i was like he's got me and so i just i'm just working medical and frank's praying out loud Rick's praying out loud.

1:58:45But does he have a pulse at this point? So. And there's no way. In a situation like that, I'm not going to stop and take this. I didn't know if somebody else had one or. No. And so I have SpO2 monitor there. I've got all the stuff for it. I could have put it on, but it's irrelevant. It's irrelevant to treating that wound. Right. And so I've got to stop that bleeding. That's my primary thing. And so whether he had a pulse then, it's unknown. The body's an amazing thing that can do things even when it's technically destroyed. And so my concern is bleed control. And so Rick's got me. Justin's driving.

1:59:34World's coming by. I'm working putting I end up putting about 36 feet of dressing in him and then for four by fours and into hemostatic four by fours and and then just pressuring the whole time so you're adding there's pressure as much as you can get pressure adding pressure and so we are heading to the hospital you know it's a known we're heading there breaking intersections we picked up a tail from PD somewhere along the way and I know some audio came out about that and I think they thought it was a secondary person that had been shot you know and and but we didn't know if it was an active shooter you know everybody that says oh you should have treated him there and not moved him stop the bleeding i'm like well yeah i know same way i was like man if it no that's not medicine doesn't happen on the x you know any nothing happens somebody shoots at you you get off the x right And so, and we didn't have cover.

2:00:47Just for anybody that's listening, that is rule number one, law enforcement, military, security, anything. Get off the X. More rounds are coming in. Yeah. And so, we get to the hospital. Actually, we make it to the hospital through the traffic. We've got full wound pack in. We get out and we carry in to the door. Once we make it into the door, we see a gurney on the left-hand side. We put him on a gurney, and then I wheel him into a room. I start giving the patient information to the staff there. I end up getting on top of him and cutting the shirt that he had on off, that white Freedom shirt.

2:01:37and so I cut it off so they could get to him so that I didn't articulate this to them but I wanted to get that stuff off so they could put a defibrillator on him and so and then started talking about pushing drugs and so I was back and forth and with them on drugs and defibrillator and uh and so then um you know once you get that cut shirt off shirt cut off and moved out of the way you know there's enough of medical professionals in there and so i just want to get out of their way and so um i got out of their way and walked out of the room and and stood outside uh the room and held guard on the outside door of the room so nobody else could come in there covered in Charlie's blood.

2:02:26Yeah, it all over my face.

2:02:33Rick and I had it all over our arms. From about here down, it was just covered. Yeah, I feel bad for the hospital staff because we showed up looking like that and they didn't know we were coming even though we we had called 9-1-1 but I don't know what happened that so we show up and guys got blood all over their face and carrying a guy with blood solid on my pants and shoes and so then I just stood out there and And then finally, this lady, and I feel horrible, she came up to me and she said, hey, come with me. And she took me in a room and physically washed my face and my hands and stuff, the nurse that was there at the hospital.

2:03:32I was like, man, humanity. Man. So it's, there was a, you saw a lot of beautiful things. A lot, a lot of beautiful things. Rick was, Rick was there. Same thing with him. He's, he's going through the same thing. He's covered in it. And, and Justin's there. And Dan was there and everybody's got this look of bewilderment like, hey. And so I told Justin, I said, check on the men and call your kids.

2:04:15Because I was worried about them. Because when we left, our guys went back into the crowd because they didn't know, because everybody was on the ground. So those guys that were still there, they went back in the crowd searching for other victims. No kidding? Yeah. Because they didn't know, because everybody's just laying there, frozen. And so once we got out of there, they went back in and started searching for other victims and people that had been shot. And so I didn't know their status. And it was horrible, compoundingly horrible. When I jumped down on top of Charlie, my phone came out of right here.

2:05:00And so, of course, I just left it. I didn't know it came out. So I get to the hospital and I don't have the ability to call my children and tell them I'm okay or my parents or my fiance. And when I travel abroad, any old CONUS job I do, I have a workup. It's all the numbers and everything and I have it hidden and so I can call what CONUS job. and I mean I can still remember numbers from when I was in high school with my friends but I just don't remember numbers nowadays and so uh I uh I couldn't call them and so they're at home just suffering because I can't call them damn um so and uh so I said man I can do better than that, you know.

2:05:57So finally, got a hold of my ex-wife and then said, hey, from another, somebody else's phone, I think via like Facebook Messenger or something, I can't remember what it was, but it was like, hey, we'll figure this out. And then I said, hey, I'm going to call, answer the phone. And my daughter answered the phone. And she had already gone to her house waiting to hear something. And so there's always a concern in her voice. But I said, hey, I'm good. I'm fine. I'll call you when I get a chance. And so I started asking for check-ins for the guys that were still at the scene. Like, hey, everybody okay?

2:06:42Read me in. We have other victims. What's going on? And they got retasked. That same chief of police came out and said, they, you all hold this crime scene and help us look for other clues. And I'm like, that's a no-no. But they did it. And so they were back there, and then they were just trying to figure things out. And they were there for a while. Man. Yeah. So it was chaotic. But, you know, you find chaotic situations, you find ways to control it inside that situation, right? And they did a good job at that. You know, there's been a lot of rumors going around about there was no autopsy, none of that.

2:07:35Was there an autopsy? There was, and I can speak to that. Personally, I can speak to that. the one for those people saying that do a foyer do a foyer to the the medical examiner's office to utah county get off your lazy ass and do a foyer they may not give you the uh autopsy information right now but they'll certainly tell you yeah there's an autopsy that's the first one um the second one was um uh the the or doc they well your question earlier about a pulse We'll get back to that. And so they ended up working him in the room, and they ended up taking him to the OR because they got a pulse. They did get a pulse?

2:08:22They did get a pulse. But Charlie was a healthy man. He was very cognizant of his health, and he was a strong guy. They've had a pulse? Hold on. How long had it been since the shot to the hospital? I have no idea. I mean, that is a jugular shock. You can be dead. A central nervous system, you've got a strong heart, right? And that's what the OR doctor told me. Okay. He said that's what it was. Holy shit. Yeah. And so I have no way of, I'm not a doctor. I just know what he told me, you know? And so we go to that. And I'm sorry, what was your question again? uh we were talking about the autopsy oh the autopsy and so um uh once they came down and said uh he didn't make it and uh and and he talked about he said if he had been shot in the OR I wouldn't have been able to save him and I was like I mean he's just kind of confirming things that I already knew.

2:09:36And so, I don't know how long, I don't know what the timeline was, but I want to say, I can't remember who it was, but I knew, I was like, we're not going to turn this into some JFK. And I specifically asked one of the doctors, I don't know, I remember what she look like, dark skin, dark hair, probably 35, 40 years old. I said, how long until we can get an autopsy? And I remember her saying a day, a day and a half. And I was like, oh. And so, I mean, she's the boss of that. That's just information. And so I remember, I was like, man, that's a long time. We need to get this autopsy done and done right so that there's not some conspiracy.

2:10:30I mean, you're starting to think forward to that. And so I remember I was standing next to the chief of staff and the vice president called. And the vice president asked him, what do you need? And then he looked at me and said, what do we need? And I said, we need an autopsy now. So for these people that are saying there wasn't one done, go away. It was done. It was done. Do it for you. Yeah. Get the report when it comes out. It was done. It was done. Yeah. And the OR doc released statements regarding, and there has been statements regarding the bullet and the travel. Oh, there should have been a blowout.

2:11:25And there wasn't an exit wound. There wasn't one. I was checking for that in the ride. Yeah. And so people are like, yeah, it's completely impossible. And I was like, man, I've seen bullets do weirder things on people. And so all I know is what I saw. There wasn't an exit wound. And so I know there was an autopsy done. One, because we requested it. They were there. And the second one was the local SO, and I believe it was the state police, they did the body transfer that night through the either ME's office or funeral home to the ME that night and took them there. So for them to say that somebody broke the rules or turning point didn't follow the rules, that's lies.

2:12:30It's conjecture and it's lies. It's all that's people. It's one of them people look at themselves. Yeah, it happened.

2:12:39Do you think that the entry wound looked like an exit wound? No, it was an entry wound. Why do you say that? So, one, there wasn't an exit wound because I remember rolling his head over and cleaning it so I could see if there was an exit wound. And then I was having to open the wound up some to get more in packing. if you've ever done an exit wound, it's not that hard. It's a lot bigger. And so you can feel it when you're, you know, the rule kind of dumb on that one is you don't want to make it bigger, but you've got to keep packing it in there. And so, yeah, I've heard and seen them all. Like, there was a guy that said, you know, that the mic blew up, and it was a bomb.

2:13:34Yeah, we were... I was going to wait. Yeah, there is a guy online that is saying that the microphone may have had some type of explosive projectile inside of it. So it wrapped around the neck and created a hole? That's the thing that I couldn't... I just couldn't wrap my head around either is the accuracy that would have to take place from an explosion to actually get you in the neck. But then other people are saying that maybe the explosion killed him. In fact, there's actually some camera footage that somebody has done some type of assessment on. But, I mean, you cut his shirt off. Right. Did you see any burn marks?

2:14:17Did you see any indication of any type of explosion? Back it up even further to that. You've been around explosives and shaped explosives and stuff like that. It's like, what do you have when you have that? They had that down to like frames, right? Where was the flash? If that was an explosion, where was the flash? You have oxygen exchange to create the explosion. Where was the flash? Where was the char?

2:14:45It didn't exist. Do you know if his equipment is assessed before it's put on? Yeah, it's actually held up there. That company that is a contract, subcontracting company for them, they hold that all up there because, you know, and they're around it, almost guarding it because people will steal it. And so, and it's inside the non-permeable zone. Okay. So nobody has access to it. It's set up in there. Even the boxes are kept in there. And so it's inside that. And so it's on them. And then you can see they walk up and actually pin it on him. So that system is integritized also. And again, that's a reach.

2:15:32Go all the way back to where's the explosion? You got frame by frame. You know, when that theory came out, I mean, I don't think it's necessarily out of the question. I mean, we know about the pagers. Absolutely. You know, but, you know, I mean, the way I looked at it was he was wearing a loose-fitting T-shirt that had a, I believe, the road mic with the magnet, you know, strapped onto his shirt. On the other side. Yeah. From the wood. He's moving around. And so that, you know, that microphone, if it was a projectile, it would have had to have been pointed at the exact same spot, which would have been impossible to do with a loose shirt.

2:16:16Right. You know, and so, and then the, the, I mean, the, there would have been an entry wound. It wouldn't have gone to the other side of the neck, you know, but it, and then, you know, there was a, oh, well, it was a trigger man, you know, with a device to initiate the blast. and it's but still though i mean to have him moving around like this and his shirt his loose shirt to have a piece of weight while he's moving around i mean that you just you could not probability it would be a coincidence for it to actually happen the way that it did yeah it would be a coincidence it would not be i i don't think you could chalk that up to skill unless the explosion is what killed him.

2:17:03But what you're saying, no flash, no blast. No char. No char, no burn marks, no nothing. And that's a real time - You cut the shirt off, you would have seen it. That's a real time see too. You've seen explosions. I've seen a lot of explosions. And so you have those attributions. Where's the attribution to the explosion inside those frames? It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist. Don't try to make something into nothing. And so I'm not saying that we shouldn't look at things by all means. We should. I mean, we look at people and press and history of the United States, how valuable they've been. And I applaud these guys that are out there humping and working to one hand, the truth.

2:17:48But don't say you're searching for the truth when you're lying to get it. And that's what's happening. Because you're not searching for the truth. You're searching for clicks. I think that the people posting these, I don't know. You know, I mean, I have mixed feelings. I think some people are legitimately just trying to figure it out. I think that there are other people that are very obviously making a living off of sensationalizing this. But, you know, I mean, I think we live in a time where people, including myself, don't know where to find the truth. they don't know who to believe. They are starting not to even believe their own eyes.

2:18:32And do you blame them? No, I don't. No, I don't. Me neither. I don't. I don't. We have zero faith in any of these institutions. You think about this. There is a guy out there, and he has a company called Paramount Tactical, and his name's Gary. And Gary took an ass-whipping online because he went out there and said, and he did exactly what we're talking about right now, and people whipped his ass for telling the truth. Because he bucked the system. He said, no, look at this. And he broke it down from a professional standpoint because he has a background in it and a probability standpoint. And, man, I hadn't talked to him, and he was like 95 % right, even on the medical stuff.

2:19:14And it's like, but then he took an ass-whipping online for it, and I sat and watched it from afar. And it's like, so people get chastised for telling the truth. And then you've got, like you said, who do you believe? I mean, our media, they big poll. They polled our people in the United States. And how many of you believe the media? And it said 70 % of them don't believe a word that comes out of the media's mouth. And I'm like, well, let's look at this. If a baker makes bread every day and 70 % of his product tastes like crap, how long is he going to be in business? And then why do we keep letting these people be in business?

2:19:53So that's the big media. You think that's worse online? And then who's to blame, the idiot that's lying or the big Facebooks, Instagrams, and Xs that are making money off the online? And then they're monetizing the lie too. It's kind of like back in the day. You had the National Enquirer that made money offline. They sold the little cheap papers. All these guys are, and these things are our version. in the National Enquirer, and they're monetizing that lie. But, and I say, man, guys, you're losing value of how important that is. You could be the Watergate guy that breaks the truth, but you're taking that away from people.

2:20:40It's like, be the one that tells the truth. Be the paramount tactical guy that's willing to take a whipping to tell the truth. I think, you know, I've talked about this a lot recently, but, you know, I think you have to be willing to poke holes in your own story. You can poke holes in everybody else's story, and that's fine. But you also have to be willing to poke holes in your own story. That's a great way to put it. You know, you should be poking holes in your own story. If you are really a truth seeker, you should be poking holes in your own story along with everybody else's. But where's the oversight to do that?

2:21:23It's gone. Put a couple guys in the wayback machine and you make it down quick. That's true. That's true. You know, you were... Something that I forgot to bring up with the hand and arm signal type stuff is that it looked, you know, there was a lot of chatter on the internet that you took, I believe it was a female that handed you something. Handed me something? On camera. I believe it was you. Hmm. Did anybody hand you anything? No. No. The only thing that, you know, I did, I remember before Charlie was shot, in my area, I saw a little American flag on the ground, and people were just walking around it like it was nothing.

2:22:08And I just walked over and picked it up and put it in my pocket. And that's the only thing that, you know, nothing. There was some stuff about the guys that said that, and the FBI called on that, like, hey, I forget which one. You can see one of them do a hand motion to another. Did you hand something off? And they were like, no, there wasn't a handoff, there wasn't a key exchange. Gibby reached back here at one point and, like, adjusted his radio because when he jumped over the table, you know, it partially came loose or something. But, and I asked all the guys, did you guys exchange anything?

2:22:46and like no and then you can break down the video break it down to the point where do you you're saying that you saw their hands what what got exchanged there's nothing that got exchanged nothing is there a do we have that footage jeremy could you pull that up real quick here it is that's chrissy those are mints that's that's she works there she works there Those are mints. Okay. Yeah, I put them in my pocket. She walks around and hands out. She's an angel. She takes care of us. She makes sure that we're hydrated. She buys the stuff to put in the sodium electrolytes to put in the drinks. She walks around and gives us mints, checks on us.

2:23:37Her husband, Angel, does the same thing. And so, yeah, that's who that is. Yeah. Yeah, not uncommon. Yeah. There was a man on the team who, after he was shot, I believe he was on the security team, runs towards the vehicles, hangs out outside the vehicles and takes, I believe it was a TikTok selfie video. Do you know who this is? Mm-mm. Can you pull this up, Jeremy? Is it the one where he said Charlie just got shot? Yeah. Yeah, he's with the audio-visual team. Yeah, it's a company that they contract to shoot the footage. It's also the one, he's the guy that went up and... There he is right here.

2:24:26Yep, yep. They just shot Charlie. They just shot Charlie. They just shot Charlie.

2:24:36They just shot Charlie. i couldn't tell you uh yeah he's the one that if you see him he's the one that's running the cameras okay yeah he he's the audio visual team guy that's running the cameras he's also the one that they said that he was hiding footage or whatever that he turned over all that footage to the fbi so um he did so this is that this is also the guy that or was that a security guy if you look after the event somebody goes to the camera that was behind charlie pulls the camera down looks like he pulls the sd card same guy and he that footage is in the hands of the fbi correct wasn't deleted wasn't erased he he he actually works for the company called vi and they do they're a contract AV video people.

2:25:28And he's not a security guy. He works for the security, the VI, the video company. Okay. Yeah. And so I don't understand, and it's not for me to try to understand that part, like the getting on the phone or that. I don't understand that. And you see that a lot nowadays. Tragic things happen. Shootouts and people pull their phones out instead of running. And so I don't understand that. That's for him to explain, not me. I know he doesn't work for us. But I also know from seeing some of the stuff that he's the same guy that took down the cameras and people are like, what's going on here? And I'm like, well, that's a legitimate ask.

2:26:15That's a legitimate ask. I think that too. I don't think that's... That's a legitimate essay. And where did that go? And he was interviewed and asked and answered an FBI, and that was all turned over because I asked that question.

2:26:34These are the questions that are running rampant on the internet, by the way. So here's... I'm just going to do a quick fire here. Did you see any signs of internal leaks or betrayals within TP, USA, or the security team that could have facilitated the attack? No. No. I don't. And here's my deal. That's our job, right? And so if they have some stuff going on inside corporate headquarters, that would be unknown to us anyway. And then we're the contractor uh it's a security contractor which is our team and then so that direction comes from dan and then it comes to us and uh nothing nothing that would make me believe that hey something's afoot here uh so sometimes i wish no not wish it's like hey if that was happened that would be an easier attribution.

2:27:36But I would say this, hey, if you're going to make that claim, you better be able to back it up with the truth. Because we're talking about allegations that you're making that people are conspiracy or part of a murder. We're not talking about cheating in a video game or handing cards. And so if somebody were to say, one of my guys or an employee, hey, you were part of this murder and you help conspire, then I would say, I need you to tell me why you said that right now. A definitive why not now. Not, hmm, it's a possibility. Yeah. And if you do, let me hear it. But it better be the truth. And if it's not, there's consequence.

2:28:22Yeah. And so, and that's why there's punishments for stuff like that involved. Do I have faith in the system? I've seen a lot of guilty people walk free because they had money, right? And so I know the system is broken, but you've been around the world. Man, every time I come home from someplace bad, I'm like, dang, we got it good. Yeah. And so, no, I didn't see anything to make it lead that came from the inside. Okay. Why do you believe that the security footage has not been released publicly? Well, I mean, obviously, the FBI is in control of the evidence. And I'm with them on that. You are? Absolutely.

2:29:20Absolutely. I'm with them on that. Man, that video footage or really good video footage is the truth. Or as close as we have. And so they came back with that gag order to the council and so they can information share because the judge said there's a volume of evidence, right? A volumous, I think is what he said. And I'm like, okay, because we want to protect his right to a fair trial, and we don't want to taint a potential jury.

2:29:57Okay, I get that. But if, is there not a balance to that? It's like, I'm not asking you to produce the footage, but maybe give us something that, we investigated this claim, and then we found this. And make them put their name on that. I'm with them on that. Give us some information. It's like you go to public information officer school to be a cop, and they tell you, hey, don't go out there and go, this happened. We'll let you know when we figure it out. Because then you're just like, well, are you capable? Do you know what you're doing? Are you hiding something from us? Yeah. So what do you do?

2:30:37You go out there, even if you can't release the details of it, you go, hey, this happened. We heard this, and this is attribution that makes us lead to believe that it was a directed crime and not a random crime. So what you're doing is you're letting people, okay, this is starting to make sense. Give us something. Yeah. Give us something. I mean, this just comes from institutions hiding things. And has it happened? I mean, you know, maybe had they, I don't know, released the Epstein files, maybe there would be a little bit of trust in the institution. Brother, I could go on for a long time about that.

2:31:25Needs to be released. Yeah. Charlie wanted it released. That's not my opinion. Yeah. Watch the videos. Yeah. Release them. Yeah. That wasn't, my point wasn't, you know, I mean, I want them to release them too. My point wasn't getting into it. I'm just saying like, this is, this is the shit that causes distrust in the institutions. Of all institutions. And it gets worse and it gets worse and it gets worse. And if you want to rebuild the fucking trust in the institutions, then you open up transparency and you stop fucking hiding shit from the American people. 100%. That's how the fuck you do it.

2:32:08This isn't rocket science. This isn't fucking brain surgery. This is just... And here's my response. Transparency. That's it. You got... I've got a team here that are done. And if you had opened that up, and if you had opened that up at least a little bit, six, eight, nine weeks ago, these guys wouldn't have been suffered. We've been doxxed. Our credit cards have been stolen. Our children's and parents' names have been released online, wedding plans, home addresses, phone numbers. It's like, throw us a bone. Yeah. Don't let us sit out here and suffer for you when all you've got to do is produce something to quench the thirst of these people.

2:32:53And you're right. You're creating distrust. Yeah. And you're hiding behind, well, we have to make sure and ensure that we don't taint a jury for this guy. You know, and I have questions about that, too. And so I have questions about that. And we talked about that earlier. Where's his call logs? His phone hits. Who'd he talk to two days, four days, eight days beforehand? Why do you think that they tore up and paved over the crime scene so quickly? I have asked that at least 10 times. And I said, I don't understand the exigency of why they did that. And here's my question to that. March your ass up to the school.

2:33:41Have you marched your ass up to the school, or will you march your ass up to that school tomorrow and file a FOIA and say, hey, you're a public institution. I want the request and the plans that were made to tear that up and when those requests and plans happen. because that didn't, you're not going to request that, or you shouldn't request that overnight and have that done. That had to probably go through a budget request, had to be approved. There should be a timeline and paperwork for that. You should be able to get that through FOIA. And so do it. Make them tell us why that they tore that up before it was even cold.

2:34:20I want to know. Because it came back on us that we had some trap door, and they're covering up the trap door, and we had a guy hiding in there. Okay, that's actually my next question. I didn't hear about there was somebody hiding in the trap door. A gun was hiding or something. Or there was a trap door or something. Was there a trap door in a tunnel system? No. There was not. No. So, school, why did you tear it up? Why did you tear it up? What was the exigency to tear up something that still people would, did you not think that through? Like, hey, this might, we're not going to put a hold on that.

2:34:58This might induce questions to us. And it didn't. Nobody went back and asked questions to the school or said, hey, well, let's do a FOIA and do some back digging on that. That's not protected under this evidentiary gag order. Now, let's just blame the security team because that's the easy way. Go do the foyer. You know, I mean... Back to the exit wound thing. You know, I mean, because we're talking about the tearing up of the crime scene and everybody's wanting them to find the bullet. I mean, if the bullet hit any bone at all, there is no bullet. It's just fragmentation. Great point. And... And that was discussed already.

2:35:41And if there... Yeah. There was no exit wound. In the autopsy, though, there should be, I mean, if there was no exit wound, then there should be fragmentation of the, the bullet would have fragmented into who knows how many pieces. The doctor, and again, this is not a nondisclosure violation, but the doctor told us, came out there and told us. And then they also told chief of staff. So the bullet came in and hit the vertebra. So it came in and then tore up everything in the wound cavity, hit the vertebra, crushed it, shattered it, turned, crushed the second one, turned, kept going down all the way.

2:36:28I think they said C6. Holy shit. Yeah, it's like, why not put that info out? Why not put it out? Why wouldn't they put that out? Then do me a favor. Don't make me do it. It's not my job. And so then it got to here, and you're exactly right, and then hit, I think, 6, and then fragged. And so explanation 101, what are you hiding? Yeah. It's like I'm sitting back here when people are saying we bombed him or there's a wound. I'm like, hey, somebody from an official capacity would just release that. And I don't see how that could jeopardize a fair trial for a guy.

2:37:14And or somebody called the doctor. Somebody just called him.

2:37:30This guy, George Zen, are you familiar with this guy? Is he the one that said - Is the performance immediately after the shooting, I believe he was saying that he had the shooter, who's also a witness to 9-11, called to the bomb threat in Salt Lake City Marathon. I mean, he seems to show up at a lot of historic - Historic incidents, right? And then gets arrested and then later gets arrested for child porn after that. And so that was a weird deal because that came to us at the hospital. They had to have somebody in custody. And I'm like, awesome. And then our guys helped hold that perimeter area while they were arresting him.

2:38:20And I want to say they held on to some gear or something. I'd have to double check with them but they were there assisting the police for that because they're still in there holding the crime scene yeah and so how did this guy get there and they did the search warrant on his house and they released it it's like hey dump his phone and release that too dump the tower information and release yeah I want to know who is this guy why is he around all these things all these things What questions do you have? You know, uh... You had some good questions about Robinson. Yeah. I want to know who this kid is.

2:39:05I don't want to know that he was, had a, something that feeds a narrative of hate and division, that he was, uh, uh, uh, his boyfriend was trans or whatever, and that they had text back and forth. I want to know, it's like, where did he work? and then who were his coworkers, and did they interview his coworkers? And then I want to see his phone logs and the towers that had hit. I want to interview his friends, and did he have any help? They said, oh, well, we have DNA on the rifle, and I want all that information. That's a good tie, right? Now, from a judicial standpoint, I can understand why they're saying, yeah, we don't want to put all this information out because the judge said it may taint a potential jury because they're going to seek the death penalty.

2:39:59And I'm like, from a book standpoint, I understand that. But you got a lot of people out there wondering, hey, did this guy do it by himself? And then you throw my wonder on there. It's like, wow, so he just, the rooftop was clear, and then he jumped up on it, acquired a shooting position, took the shot. That shooting position was a loophole. It had been five meters this way or this way wouldn't have happened. And then can we go through his phone or his computer and find a Google Earth overhead that he was looking at days, weeks, months before? Did he access that before? Because obviously it's a problem because that's how we came upon information.

2:40:44that it's easily accessed and how we gave it to the chief to say, hey, chief, you got this right. I got you covered. So that's information we need to know. I want to know about this kid. I want to know if somebody helped him. Is he a patsy? Is he, was there a group of people? What's a patsy? Is he taking the blame for other people? Or is he part, is he a lone wolf? But then we all thought Timothy McVeigh was a lone wolf too, right? And then we come to find out, no, people knew about it. He had assistance. Even if it was assistance of we knew you were going to do something and then we didn't say something.

2:41:31So, yeah, I have questions to him. I have questions, and this is horrible because I'm a father. I have questions to his father. Aren't they saying that he took the rifle apart with a flathead screwdriver? That's a big one. I want to know. And it's like, I know there's footage out there, and I don't know what to believe and how it got down. It's like, all right, how did the—I want to know that. How did the rifle get from the roof to where they found it? That's a big one. how did the rifle get from the shooting position all the way back across to where they found it? And then it was reassembled when they found it, correct?

2:42:12I don't think that it ever was disassembled. Because even an AR platform, think about it. You know what I mean? Pin, pin, break, pull. It's going to take a bit. That's a bolt gun. Mm-hmm. That's what I'm getting at. Right. It's not going to happen. It probably should have been a lower. a little bit more descriptive on about that. So I want to know about that. Non-shooters. Yeah. You know, and there's other things. Non-2A enthusiasts. Yeah, yeah. I look at that and I look at a lot of things that are going on at turning point, you know, And because I saw, man, I've seen people say that Erica was involved in it, his wife.

2:43:09I've done a lot of death notifications where I had to tell kids that their parents were dead or their parents that their kids were dead. And I know what pain looks and sounds like. I wake up screaming sometimes, thinking of kids' faces.

2:43:28The words that came out of her mouth and how they came out, when she walked in that room and saw him, you don't want to hear that.

2:43:45She's a victim. That's her husband. and now people without any proof are saying that she was a part of killing him? Come on, man. And then not having anything to substantiate it with? That's what makes me lose faith in people, and that we allow it, and that platforms allow it.

2:44:15It goes against everything that we are. And if we're going to allow that, what else are we going to allow? You hear that kind of pain come from somebody and see it. And I can only imagine the pain she's feeling now by having to hear that people say that she was a part of. Those are lies. and so that so in so we have that organization it's it's got this huge power vacuum going on now and I'm sure it's it's it's defecting it it's affected me and so that's that that's an organization with a lot of great people in it doing good things you know and so

2:45:13So, where do we draw the line to people making allegations of bad behavior? It's a huge question. I mean, could you imagine? Think of this for a second. You've lost friends. and could you imagine somebody reporting that one of your friends his wife was responsible for their death what would you want to do to him

2:45:49yeah and it's like man

2:45:58we're better than this we should be better than this and we're not and people are bitching about the leaders we have and I was like hey we get the leaders we deserve that's a good point we don't deserve very much right now

2:46:19on each side on each side both sides we get the leaders we deserve well if we want to hold them accountable we should hold ourselves accountable yeah are there any other questions you have no I just uh I mean I appreciate you. You let me come on. Or when I got that phone call, I was like, wow. I mean, I've seen the people that have come here. And Don Graves, he sat here, right?

2:47:14That's Eddie Penny, Ben Carson. I was like, man, I don't deserve this. So... There's a lot of humility in this room, man. Should be. Thank you for that. You deserve to be here just like everybody else. Thanks, man. God bless you, brother. Thank you. Thank you.

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