#295 Samuel Reineberg - First-Hand Account of the Old Dominion Terrorist Attack

29:54He had a beard, a longer beard. What did he say? Well, he walked in a room and he was like, kind of like nervous. He's like, is this ROTC or is this seminar? and we're all like huh nobody said anything he said it again like is this ROTC or is this seminar I don't know who it was but somebody in the front was like yeah like that it was ROTC

30:31and uh he as soon as that person said yeah he drew his gun yelled a lot and I started shooting my professor

30:46and

30:50I like I hit the floor well not the floor but like under like right kind of ducked under the table like oh oh shit I ended up apparently like stepping on the girl next to me she told me that later like maybe me like a few days actually told me that a few days ago um and um i'm back up and the way i'm not thinking about any of this this is the weird part i mean did you even realize he was shooting i've been shot at a lot i've been shot at a point blank distance and it always takes At least for me, it usually takes a couple of seconds to realize... It was like a second. ...holy shit, this is... okay, I'm getting fucking shot at.

31:38It was like a second or two, maybe, tops, and then everybody's on the ground screaming. And I'm like on my feet running now. I have to clear the row of the people that are on the ground, like trampling them. Shaw, Colonel Shaw, he had like, was able to kind of like, take step forward, some steps forward and kind of grab and pull him in, bear hug him. It's the shooter. So he, while being shot at, took steps forward and like, bear hugged the shooter while being shot at. Yeah.

32:29And I had gotten up and was moving right and hooking the left to make it to the front of the class. And I see another cadet already on top of the shooter with a knife.

32:50And I had yelled, get him on the way there to the front. literally the distance is the same in this room as the classroom and

33:13he there was one cadet on top already with Shaw and me and another cadet had arrived at the same time, but he was a row ahead of me, maybe two rows, a row ahead. And, um, and it, it gets kind of, you know, it kind of slows down in my brain thinking about it. Uh, there was like four of us total that handled this guy. We were immediately trying to like go for the gun, right? He's like trying to shoot me. He's trying to shoot a friend next to me on my left. Uh, he's just trying to keep shooting. And we had our hands on this, uh, as soon, had our hands on the top of the slide of this Glock. And, uh, as soon as we had the, we're like pinned, we got him pinned in the wall, um, in the front of the class.

34:19And, And as soon as we had the gun pointed away from our classmates, I had turned around. Like I'm on my knees, I'm turning around while holding the gun, still wrestling with the guy. I turned around and, you know, still screaming and stuff. All that shit's going on. And I turned around, I was like, everyone get the hell out of here. Everybody run and somebody call 911. So, somebody call 911, everyone get the hell out.

34:52And my classmates, they remember my face being like the last face they saw apparently running out of the classroom. And it really freaked them out because they were like... I don't even remember them running to be honest, because it's just so much going on so fast. Um, maybe after a minute of wrestling with the dude and taking care of this guy. The group of us.

35:28Um... He finally, like, let go.

35:34Um... I mean, he had been stabbed. He'd been beat. I mean, took an eye out. You took an eye out? I did. How'd you do it? My finger.

35:58And then one of the other cadet had taken the gun. And at this point, after that, after the gun has been, the guy's done, the gun's handled, I go, my attention is just all on Colonel Shaw.

36:21I could care less about the terrorists, to be honest.

36:27But going into the aid now with him, he had tried to stand up, like, pretty quickly. He tried to stand up. And... his, uh... He kind of leaned back into the wall, kind of braced his back into the wall, and then eyes rolled, lights out. Shit. Fell onto the ground. And I, like, grabbed him by his shirt on the way down, fell kind of with him to stop him in a way. And at that point, I'm going, it's like, it's... it's still no thinking, but now it's like, now it's like real, like really, really real.

37:22And, you know, this training, I don't know if it's training or it probably is, because I took the shirt up, his shirt up, and I took his pants down, and I'm looking, and I'm searching for blood or wounds. Exit wounds? Yeah. And the blood. And he's hitting the leg, upper leg, like high up in the leg. For moral? Yeah, I would say so. And just based off just how much blood there was. And it was a Glock.22 caliber. yeah so out of all places right it's like one of the the least like the worst place yeah and uh he's lights out on me but he's opened his mouth and i pulled the tongue uh made sure he's breathing and then one of my battles.

38:34Gave me his belt. That belt didn't work. It had a weird, like, kind of cinch. It just wasn't working. You're gonna use it as a tourniquet. Yeah, we're going into treating. We're trying to stop his blood. It's a lot. And, uh, it's like me. It's this other guy, other cadet. We're gonna pull another belt off of him. His belt's this leather belt, strong. going up, cinching it down.

39:07And, um... at this point, I'm having trouble working on him because of being pinned against the wall, and it's on his... right leg, and he's... his right leg's kind of as close as to the wall. So I'm like, somebody get out in the hallway and secure the hallway, because... there's more... really wide hallway. like there's more room to work move move him and work on him and um

39:39yeah so we picked him up i was like me and this other guy picked him up put him in the hallway and uh he like came back for like a minute maybe and he's trying to fight me to get up like stand up and I'm like Brandon no man you can't get up like ambulance is coming like you're gonna be all right we're gonna get you out of here man but you cannot get up and he didn't really say anything at all who is this this is Brandon it's Colonel Colonel Shaw Brandon okay um Brandon Shaw and uh because I'm like you know I know his first name and like trying to use his first name uh so we're waiting on the cops to come uh maybe a couple more minutes had passed i'm not sure but i'm like is he coherent you couldn't tell uh sort of maybe his eyes were wide open wide open uh

40:45Uh... Yeah, like, he had gone lights out, like, unconscious, and then came back after we'd moved him in the hallway, and really cinched that tourniquet on, the first belt. Mm-hmm. And then the first two officers arrive, and it's one guy and it's one girl, and she's got a... I see it on her immediately. It's this, like, tourniquet. It's, like, right on her front of her rig.

41:13she kind of just stops. She's like, oh, my God. And I'm like, over top of Colonel Shaw, like, this close. Like, right here, like, and I look up and I see her, and I'm like, give me your tourniquet. Me and my buddy who was right next to me, who was like, still like, looking after him, we put it on above, even higher up at this point. Like, just right, right there. Mm-hmm. As high as you can get it. As high as you can get it. That's what you're supposed to do. Cinched it down. And the male officer came back, and Karnashaw went lights out again. And I was like, we need to get the hell out of here.

41:56So me, two other cadets, and the male officer, we carried them down two flights of steps out onto the front of the building. this is a regular building this isn't the rotc building uh regular business type classes held in there um right next right across the street from the football stadium and parking garage and uh

42:34We sit him down and redoing the tourniquet again, making it even tighter. And he comes back again. And this time he's talking, talking. Wow. He's talking. He's asking, he's like, I need my inhaler. But choked up in his throat. He's like, he needs his inhaler.

43:01And I'm on top of him, and he says that to me, and I start screaming at everybody. There's students out at this point. We've got the phones out recording. There's SWAT running past, you know, guns blazing. And I'm just screaming for this inhaler. and uh one cadet had ran and tried to go run find one and then there's like other cadet another cadet is like going in out of the building making sure that like because we had another one other one that was hit up and still in the room uh and then the the police finally they like they're with me now with colonel shaw and um i was like brandon we're gonna get you out of man they're right here the ambulance is right here we got you bro we like we're gonna get you out it's gonna be okay like and he just was looking at me eyes wide he's awake he's conscious he's not talking though and uh

44:14and uh told the police I was like hey like he's lost a lot of blood I'm covered in it like my shoes up from my shoes up to my chest and my hands to my elbow so I'm both soaked soaked in blood yeah

44:40And the police took him. And then I was kind of like, okay, now what do I do? I got to get safe. My phone's gone. I don't know if it was during the fight or when I was treating him initially in the classroom, but my phone came out of my pocket somehow and had landed next to the shooter terrorist. They thought it was his phone. The FBI thought it was his phone, and they were going to seize my phone, thinking it was his phone later on. But yeah, got off the spot, and I found some cadets that were just dazed. It's like, hey, we're gonna go into this neighborhood and try to, like, hide out for a little bit.

45:35And then they kind of followed me. And then... I was like, you know what? Actually, come back. Let's go into the parking garage where we're not in the open. Which was across the street from the building where all this took place, but I just thought, in my mind, it was the best option to take. You just want a breather? Or not even, just like get safe. I was, I don't know, it was like autopilot. Mm-hmm. On the way back to the parking garage, this guy comes up to me. This guy comes up to me and like I said, I'm covered in blood. Like there's blood dripping off my fingers. And this guy comes up to me, he's like, hey, I need you to answer some questions.

46:34Like, what? What do you mean? He's like, I'm with ODU, I'm an ODU official, I need you to answer some questions. I was like, let me see some ID. Because I'm like, who could this guy be? He's like wearing like a, you know, a business outfit kind of thing. He's got some glasses on. I'm like, all right. I take his ID from him, look at it. I couldn't even see what it said, because I'm like, my vision's kind of like this, just a tunnel. And I was like, threw it back at him. I'm like, I'm not answering your fucking questions. And I went and took the guys and the gals inside to the parking garage. at this point the police are all over it uh they saw me and they're like you're coming with us like i we you need we need to talk to you now like like what's going on tell us and i'm like i don't even have a phone i need to i need to tell my dad i like i just need i need to i need to tell somebody like hey this is what happened and i'm okay because like and then i need to know like everyone else in the actual ROTC building is okay.

47:59I give my dad a quick call off the detective's phone. I was like, hey, dad, like terrorist attack in my classroom. I'm okay. But I need you to get here right now. Like I'm covered in blood.

48:19And then we got into like the first statements with the officers there.

48:30We were in like the locker room of the football team in the stadium because it's like attached to the parking garage and that's where that parking garage was. And

48:46yeah, I had this female officer. She was really good. calming me down and stuff. I'm like this. I'm just like everything is after me, but I'm okay. It's like a weird, I don't know how to explain it. It's just a weird state of mind that I was in. And I'm like telling her everything that happened. And then they're like, hey, we're going to get you on a bus and you're going to come with us to the station, the police station in Norfolk.

49:22cover like we get onto the bus and

49:30we get on yeah we get on the bus and we start driving there and i was using one of my friends phones i was like giving my dad updates i was like hey dad like i'm on the way to the police station on i can't remember what what road it was um but just meet me there and uh he's just like all right son i'll be there and uh um we got there and like i'm sitting they put me they sit me down in like one of their office chairs, like of like the detectives that work there, the officers that work there. And I'm just sitting there in this like, like this cubicle area. And I'm sitting there and I am just like, I don't even know what is going on.

50:26I'm like, just completely out of my mind in terms of like, I don't know how to feel. I don't know what to think. I'm just there. I'm just there. And they start trying to bring in, like, chaplains and stuff like that. And the Navy chaplain, she took one look at me and literally kept going. Just kept going. Wow. She could see it. They didn't clean you up? Huh? They didn't clean you up? No. Not at all. Just my hand. They took pictures of my hands. I got to wash my hands. That was it. uh jeez they kept trying to offer me like candy and soda

51:12they brought in some chick-fil-a I like chick-fil-a that was that was acceptable you're like can I get the fucking blood off me for no literally and it started I was there at the station for seven hours it was starting to stink You were there for seven hours before you got to clean up? Yeah. Seven and a half, seven hours.

51:42They did one interrogation with me. An interrogation? Or not interrogation, but like, you know, they brought me into a room, small room with single desk, two chairs on one end, me on the other. What are they asking you? Asking me what happened. Was there cameras in the classroom? I don't know. I don't think so. But I think there's cameras in the hallway, maybe, in the stairwells.

52:15So, but yeah, they're like trying to offer me candy and soda, and I'm like, I don't even care. The one officer, he was doing a good job, though, talking to me. He was. just talking me through it like just getting my mind off it like hey man like where you like to travel this kind of stuff it got my mind off it for a second and then i'm like right there i'm right back to right back in it mentally i'm sitting there hours and they're like what can we get for you and i'm like you know what like you guys are cops right they're like yeah they're like I was like, can you guys get me some Zins or something?

52:59Like some kind of nicotine or something? And they're like, yo, get this guy some Zins. Like, get him some Zins. And then they're all like, all the guys that have Zins are on the, you know, at the scene right now. The one officer went down to like the Wawa or something nearby and got me a whole can. That helped. It really did. and some hours, more hours go by. And then they finally, my leadership finally brings us into this small room with the rest of the cadets there from my class. And they're like,

53:47they said uh that they had some news and i was like oh no because i could see the faces of the rest of my leadership behind the one officer that told us that Colonel Shaw had passed at the hospital.

54:14And I just couldn't believe it. Because the last time I had seen him he was alive and talking.

54:36Yeah. So, they broke that news. It was pretty traumatic being there and hearing that.

54:53Yeah, man, I'm sorry.

54:58Yeah, but... you know, maybe an hour or two more passed and was able to get to the Portsmouth Naval Hospital. My dad had arranged for treatment for blood exposure there for me and the rest of the guys that had some blood on them. and uh yeah we got there and uh full like blood panel and iodine shower change of clothes uh chaps came and saw me good chaplain too good guy um I didn't get home that night what did he say Chaplain? Yeah, I'm just curious. What does a chaplain say to somebody after an event like that? Yeah. He was like, hey, kind of like, how are you feeling? Like, really, tell me. Or don't.

56:07You don't have to, but talk to me. What are you thinking right now? What's going through your head? You're like, these are, you know, what you're feeling is normal. um um God God saw saw you that day you know saw you today kept you safe what you you know what you did and what those guys did what you guys did you know that was that was the right thing to do you had to do it it's okay to feel what you're feeling

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59:32What were you feeling? In the hospital, I was really anxious, really stressed out. I'm just really, like, on high alert. There was a kid or a boy in the room next to me. They, like, let out a scream as I was getting looked at, and I seized up in the bed right before they were literally about to do a blood draw on me. Thank God before. So that would have been like really shitty.

1:00:12Yeah, give, you know, give some resources, personal phone number. Hey, like, you know, if you feel comfortable talking with me, if it's not tomorrow, it can be a week from now, a month from now, a year from now. You know, whenever you're ready, if you want to talk, call me. He's like, I'll answer.

1:00:36I thought that was solid.

1:00:41Because it's like, what do you say, really? What can you say? What do you say?

1:00:52Yeah, I didn't get home that night till like 11 o 'clock at night. And that was from 10.30 something when the whole thing kicked off.

1:01:05Did not really sleep that night or some nights after. Did not sleep. Hardly. Didn't get to eat really. my appetite was really messed up like the stress or something I don't know like this tightness in here and

1:01:32yeah when did you get to talk to your dad for the first time in person it was at the police station what about in private when's the first time you got In the alone time with your dad? In the alone time? Just him and I.

1:01:55He's a really busy guy. I mean, on the phone. I had gotten my phone back. Maybe the next day. The next day. And my mom, too. My mom. She was like a wreck. I'd gotten to talk to her on the phone. It was just too much. to kind of like go anywhere or like try to like, hey, like see everybody, like, hey, I'm okay. Like, I just couldn't, I couldn't like handle just being in the car, going around, like trying to see people like my mom or my dad.

1:02:40But yeah, I mean like, some days after that, I mean, the days that followed were really hard. Just like the stress, the not really sleeping, bad dreams, kind of. What kind of dreams? Just like seeing, just like hearing the classroom and seeing Colonel Shaw's eyes when he was on the ground, they were really big, at a part of... Like, right before he had gone unconscious, his eyes got really big. And when I got really, I was, like, really freaked out and really started getting, like, that moment, that set of eyes, it's like a... That's what we play is in your head. That, yeah, that. that and doing the first leather belt on this a tourniquet um yeah um didn't have my phone uh i was getting like uh i was having to communicate like through people uh like through their phones uh That was rough.

1:04:07And I had an iPad. I have an iPad. I was able to kind of iMessage call, FaceTime audio call through that.

1:04:20How many people were in the classroom? 28. 28 people? Yeah. And four of you guys took him out? Yeah, like the four of us that were hands-on with the terrorists, yes, but then there's another three that helped with aid and stuff like that. How long after he yelled, Allah Akbar, did he start shooting? Immediately. While he was doing it. While he was shooting. So you didn't have time to... No. Nobody had time to process. No, not at all. Zero. Like, no time. It was instantaneous, damn near, from the confirmation that, yes, this was the ROTC classroom. Shit. And, uh... Did he shoot a Colonel Shaw first?

1:05:09Yeah. Colonel Shaw was the closest guy to him. How far? Point blank? six seven feet that's it i mean i mean first like i'm telling you the dimensions of this room is like the same like the door he shooter is like the right edge of the american flag and colonel shaw is standing where your portrait is of you in the helicopter wow it's about five Five, six feet. How many shots did he fire? Four. Four. Like Colonel Shaw, he closed the distance immediately, damn near, and was able to kind of bear hug him to the ground after he'd been shot. Did he hit him four times? Colonel Shaw was only hit once. That's...

1:06:11I checked the whole... his whole body. Mm-hmm. I only saw... found one gunshot to his leg. But a girl got shot. She did. She did get shot. When did she get shot? It must have been in that volley of shots. So he wasn't just aiming at Colonel Shaw. Well, um... Or somebody ran in front of him. No. Um... She was sitting in the general line of fire that hit Colonel Shaw. She would have been sitting in the general line of fire of where he was standing because she was in the front row. I think in the front row to my left. It wouldn't have been that much of a gap if, uh, if you were shooting quickly to maybe have a stray.

1:07:14I don't know. But she was hitting the leg. Was anybody else hit? Yeah. Who else? Another cadet, uh, guy. The one with the knife. Who was, uh... I don't know if, uh, he must have been shot. He was shot and kept stabbing. Where was he shot? And his belly. And the belly? The belly. Yeah. And he kept going. Kept going. Freaking insane. Where did you tackle this guy? Uh, he was on the ground. Like, Colonel Shaw was able to bear hug, kind of bring him to the ground. Colonel Shaw, way more sizable guy than the shooter was. Shooter was not a big guy. um um maybe like five eight five five nine but like not like muscular either pretty like like no no not strong um

1:08:21he was on the ground when we had gotten there already and it was just kind of like a beat beat down. Just punches and elbows and people with knives and some even had a water bottle, like a metal thermos.

1:08:46It was just a... Who was heads up enough to put their hand on the slide so that he couldn't shoot anymore. What was that? Who was heads up enough to put their hand on the top of his weapon on the slide? It was me and another cadet on my left. Did you know what you were doing? You knew the firearm wouldn't function if you did that? Yeah. It's pretty fucking heads up, man. I mean, it's just, I feel like it's kind of like, you know, I've done a fair amount of shooting, and it's like, that's the main action of the gun, of the pistol. so it's like and he was trying to he kept trying to pull the trigger like at he's trying to swing his arm around at me and the guy to my left what are you doing while he is trying to shoot you in the we're trying i'm like pushing the gun like as a team back away and forcing the muzzle away from our classmates behind us into the wall.

1:09:45Was he yelling? No. No, he was... He yelled, shot, you know, and, like, he did not say a word while getting beaten. Like, at all. He just kind of let out a couple grunts, and... maybe after a minute, minute and a half, he was gone. How many times did you guys stab him?

1:10:14Do you have any idea? A lot. It was a lot. It was, and it was a lot and it was everywhere. It was everywhere. Oh yeah. It was a lot. It was everywhere.

1:10:28How big of a knife was it? Do you know? It's two, three incher. Little bitty knife. Yeah. Two, three inch knife. Like, you know, it's a college campus. I can't carry, like, knives or guns on campus. Really. They just, you know, a couple of them happened to have one on them. All I had on me that day was my cell phone until I didn't have it on me. I was there to just give my brief. I was just there to give my brief and go on my spring break.

1:11:11Um, I mean, you guys eliminated that threat in four fucking minutes with no firearm. Yeah. It was, uh. When everyone else ran. Yeah. Um, I mean, yeah, I mean, telling them to run made them run. I don't know. Here's the timeline. 940, Muhammad Jilla parks his vehicle on campus with a legally obtained Glock 44.22 caliber firearm. 1040, an hour later, Jilla enters Constant Hall, navigates to the ROTC classroom. 1043, Jilla enters the classroom, asks, is this the ROTC class? Upon confirmation, shouts Allah Akbar and opens fire. That's at 1043. 1043 to 1047, Jalala fires multiple rounds, fatally wounding Lieutenant Colonel Brandon Shaw and injuring two ROTC cadets.

1:12:21ROTC cadets immediately engage, overcome shooter through physical force. 1043, first emergency call placed, reporting active shooter. 1047, police arrive on campus four minutes after the first call to determine the shooter is deceased. Yeah. That means he died well before 1047. Shots started at 1043. 10-48 run hide-fight alert issued to campus lockdown protocols initiated 12-10 all clear issued campus declared safe that is un-fucking-real that you guys in less than four minutes were able to kill that dude that was the team you guys the team it was unbelievable how fluid and cohesive we worked on in doing this.

1:13:27Was that instinct? See, I don't know. Maybe. Um... Probably. Most... Probably mostly instinct and maybe some training. I'm not sure. Like, there was no thinking involved. I don't recall ever... I don't... I don't think there was any, any like time during the course of, you know, those few minutes where I was like deliberating over what I should do. It was just doing, uh, and I think the rest, I think that goes for the rest of those guys. And, um, um yeah they I mean this the team it really is like uh uh there's do you know how heroic that is is that even registering it's yet it's partially ish it comes and goes kind of like with the incident in a way um kind of still you know some days I'm like okay I thought I've come maybe I've come to terms with it.

1:14:49And then other days, I'm like...

1:14:54Like, what the... I still am like, what the heck is even going on? What even happened? And I think that, you know, I think that... You charged a terrorist that was killing people with... You charged him with no weapon. All of us, or most of us, with no weapon, yeah. Not even a knife.

1:15:18and eliminated him in less than four minutes

1:15:25i like i said it's you know how many people would have been killed if it wasn't for you for uh they say you know it's it would have been more did he have more magazines on him maybe one other i know the one cadet he did he uh cleared this cleared the it was fully loaded at least the The one mag was fully loaded. I don't know how many rounds were in that mag, but...

1:15:56Yeah, the university president, he said this.

1:16:06The university president, Hemphill, he had called me personally after I'd gotten this really weird email.

1:16:19from some, like, associate assistant to the vice president of, like, the student conduct committee. What did that email say? Along the lines of, hey, Samuel, just want to let you know ODU doesn't have any intention of pressing charges against you in accordance with the student code of conduct. Pressing charges against you? The ODU doesn't have any intentions of pressing charges against you after you killed a fucking terrorist that killed a professor? That's what the email said. I woke up one morning... What the fuck does that even mean? This is... yeah, I don't know. And it was like, you know, no intention of pressing charges in accordance with the student code of conduct for the actions you took personally that day.

1:17:14Oh, gee, thank you. Yeah, I woke up that one morning at like 8.30 in the morning. I slept on the couch. You know, maybe it's been four or five days since the shooting. Look at my phone, immediately screenshot it, and I sent it out to my dad and some of my, like, mentors from, like, when I was active duty, and they were like, what in the hell is that? Can I have that screenshot? Yeah, you can. Thank you. I'll give it to you. Um... Yeah, uh, I think it was like a... like a rogue... It was a rogue email, like a, we know what you did kind of thing. I don't know. We know what you did? The... My phone in the other...

1:17:59You saved an entire fucking classroom. That's what you did. So, the university president, um, was alerted of this, that this happened. And, uh, within a couple of hours, called me personally and was like, I'm so sorry that that ever got sent to you. Don't even, like... No words, but I'm sorry. And what you and those guys did, you guys are warriors, you're heroes. And then he shared a personal anecdote with me about his time when he was at Illinois University or yeah like southern illinois university in like 2008 um there was a shooting there apparently i i didn't know this until he told me he was there as like a dean or something or vice president of the university and uh in a classroom of 150 there a lone gunman came in and shot or killed like 19 or 24 and nobody stood up to this guy so he called me to tell me thank you and god bless you and keep in touch and i he wants to to make it right.

1:19:24He wanted to make it right. And his number two, her and I started corresponding. This is where I made this group chat for the guys that... us guys that stayed back in the room, just to talk about, hey, how's everyone doing? How's everyone feeling?

1:19:47I named it Fucking Warriors. That's the name of the group chat. But the university president wanted to take us out to dinner. He said, anywhere you want. Anywhere you guys want to agree on a spot, let's go. So we chose a really, really, like, expensive steakhouse. And the Monday, it was the day after the funeral we all went. And we, like, broke bread, fellowshiped together. He wanted to get eyes on every single one of us. but yeah so it should be good amazing leader i mean amazing uh and it wasn't even like bureaucratic or anything it was just real good like you know it wasn't like a check the box like hey i saw these guys it was like it was like person to person um and he heard our i mean he even heard our complaints or suggestions uh what were your suggestions ah man you know increasing security uh colonel shaw he had been there a few couple years or three two or three years at this point.

1:21:15And he had grown like the ROTC population from, I don't know what amount, but to over a hundred some.

1:21:33And I had been corresponding with his aide and, or maybe she's the vice president. I'm not sure, but I said to him, I was like, you know, if, you know, what kind of security measures are we going to put in place for our ROTC populations? You know, after this, clearly, you know, targeted. What are we going to do? because if you don't and if you don't help people will feel safe then the growth that colonel shaw did for the program will be cut in half because people are not going to feel safe and want to show up and they will just disenroll he had already was like hey virginia state police ODU PD they're going to be out in force every training event there before you guys show up after they'll be there watching so alright the first football game this coming fall semester home game everybody, every football player on ODU's team is going to be wearing camouflage with Colonel Shaw's name on the back they're going to do an Apache flyover prior to the kickoff.

1:23:02Colonel Shaw was Apache pilot. He loved Apaches and Army Aviation. And you know, renaming a building, commemorating the part of the stadium where Colonel Shaw always liked to stand and hang out next to his 105 howitzer that we got to shoot off for the games. Nice. commemorating it as like Shaw's Corner, stuff like that. Do you think this could have been prevented? I think so. How so? I think, um... You know...

1:23:47I think that... the law... maybe isn't as strict as it needs to be on individuals who have prior convictions and associations with terrorist organizations.

1:24:13For sure. One way it could have been preventative is if they wouldn't have released him from fucking prison two and a half years early. Yeah. What do you think this guy's motivation was, Mohammed? What do you think his motivation was? Just hate. Hate? Hate and evil. Let me give you a radicalization timeline. Do you mind if I do that? Sure. I'm not familiar, but sure. Here's a radicalization timeline for Mohammed Jalap. 2009 to 2015 Serves honorably in the Army National Guard Becomes troubled personal life, relationship, breakup Substance abuse, things like that In 2015 He quits the National Guard after listening to online lectures From deceased Al-Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Kawali July 2015 to January 2016, travels to Sierra Leone in Nigeria, makes contact with Islamic State members, views extremist propaganda.

1:25:31Early 2016, contacted by ISIS, a virtual plotter, online operative who encouraged attack planning, told the FBI he wanted to conduct an attack similar to the 2009 Fort Hood shooting that killed 13 people. July 3rd, 2016. Arrested after a three-month FBI sting operation, attempted to purchase an AR-15 rifle, and tried to donate$500 to ISIS. October 2016. Pleads guilty to attempting to provide material support to ISIS.

1:26:19Yeah. I didn't know you couldn't donate to ISIS. The U.S. government sends $40 to$87 million every fucking week to the Taliban. Did you know that?

1:26:34I've heard about this. That's where that flag's from. The Taliban was burning that flag in Afghanistan and the man that uncovered the fact that the U.S. government is sending 40 to 87 million fucking dollars a week to the Taliban, which is going to training people like Mohammed Jala to come here and fucking kill our people. Our U.S. government's funding that. I just want everybody to know that the U.S. government is funding fucking terrorism. Okay, so let me go down this timeline a little bit more. Prison record and early release. Sentenced February 10th, 2017 to 11 years in a federal prison plus five years supervised release.

1:27:26Prosecutors recommended 20 years. He only served eight and a half years. Transferred to a halfway house. A halfway house. Og, a halfway house. He's in prison for pleads guilty to attempting to provide material support to ISIS. So they send him to a fucking halfway house. Honestly, I don't even know what a halfway house is. A halfway house is for addicts. Oh. That's what a halfway house is. Okay. So they send him to a fucking halfway house. Released on December 23, 2024, approximately two and a half years early. Reason for early release? Completed a RDAP, a residential drug abuse program. Despite having no drug convictions, only terrorism convictions, federal law prohibits violent offenders from early release via RDAP.

1:28:27This was a legal loophole. The Federal Bureau of Prisons has since closed the loophole in 2025.

1:28:41So it was preventable. Had they not let a fucking terrorist out of prison two and a half years early on a fucking RDAP, Residential Drug Abuse Program, Why the fuck would you release a terrorist, a fucking terrorist, two and a half years early on a residential drug abuse program? Whoever the fuck did that needs to go to prison. Yeah. Along with every member of the U.S. government that's sending 40 to 87 million fucking dollars a week to terrorists to train Mohammed Jalla to come to ODU and fucking kill your professor.

1:29:27God rest his soul. It's rough. That's the reality of this.

1:29:41Thank God for people like you and your fucking comrades. Yeah. There's still some real Americans left in this country. We just want to do our best. I know, man. And, uh... This shit just pisses me off because it is fucking preventable. Yeah, I mean... Had that piece of shit not been released two and a half years early on a fucking drug rehab program, this wouldn't have happened. If they would have taken the fucking shit seriously, that this guy was actively helping ISIS, wanted to be an ISIS, was an ISIS member, went overseas to train, to look at whatever kind of material to... And we fund it.

1:30:31We fund this shit. How fucking crazy is that?

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1:31:47hi i'm sarah adams the host of vigilance elites the watch floor where we highlight what matters It became a permissive state, explain to you why it matters, and then aim to leave you feeling better informed than you were before you hit play. Terrorists, hostile intelligence agencies, organized crime, not everything is urgent. But this show will focus on what is need to know, not just what is nice to know.

1:32:26You know, it's hard to conceptualize that, especially because, you know, being a soldier,

1:32:50wanting to defend the country.

1:32:58It's hard. Difficult. The country's still worth defending, Sam. I believe that 100... Politicians are not. They are not worth defending. Yeah. Politics isn't really... It's hard to keep up. for me. You know, I stay in my lane. I just want to... I just want to take care of the people around me.

1:33:31Take care of my soldiers. You're a good man.

1:33:41Yeah, lawmakers... You don't have to say anything, man. It's hard to talk about, even though I'm not representing the army in an official capacity, it's hard to talk about those facts about what the government funds. It's not the army's fault, man. I know it's not. That's our politicians. You know what they want to do? They want to sit on X and bat this shit back and forth like it's some fucking political campaign and not do a fucking thing about it. And now we have terrorist attacks happening in our fucking country that we're funding. And I've been saying this shit was going to happen for fucking years.

1:34:28A lot with a whole slew of other people. I was in the police station, and I saw on the TV that day that the church or something in Michigan had gotten attacked that day, too. And then there was another one in Belgium, I think. Yep. That same day. I think that was all the same day.

1:34:53Yeah.

1:34:56I love my country. I love the people in it.

1:35:03Um... I love the Army. Good. Even though it has its ups and downs. Like anything.

1:35:19Enacting change... Enacting change within the organizations that I'm a part of is what I want to do. What are you doing for yourself right now? This shit can creep up on you. Yeah. Staying active.

1:35:43Talking to my mentors, my friends, my leadership from when I was at prior service. Have any of them killed anyone before? They have.

1:35:57Yeah. Yeah. Are they walking you through that? Yeah, they are.

1:36:07Honestly, the terrorist is not... That whole part of the sequence, it doesn't really bother me at all. Good. Like, at all. It's Colonel Shaw and taking care of him. That's a survivor skill. That's the thing. That part of it is, that's the hard part for me, is that part.

1:36:39Do you think you could have done something differently? Who, me? Yeah. There was nothing to do different. You did everything you could, man. We all did. Like, the team.

1:36:55there was nothing else better I don't think we could have done. We had what we had and we made use of it. So what is tripping you up about that? The experience itself? Or what do you feel guilt about? It's not so much... It was guilt in the beginning, but now it's more...

1:37:23it's just the sadness like uh in the funeral i had seen him they before they shut the casket they did like a final viewing uh that that that day and uh

1:37:42just like seeing somebody you were taking care of alive and talking to the opposite and laying in uniform in a casket

1:38:04and that's it's just just getting through that mentally that's that's the thing that's the hard part for me and the family uh his wife and his son he loved his son and he holds his son I think he's like 10. Fuck, man. He was an amazing father, I know that. Amazing father, amazing husband.

1:38:39Very big leadership void without him there. Really good representative of the army to the university.

1:38:53Yeah, that's the hard part.

1:39:00In the funeral, the flag, the flag pass, you know, to the spouse.

1:39:15And watching her carry it out. And when it was being handed to her, the, I guess the coordinating officer who, like, I guess, you know, was in charge of the funeral, who passed, skips the flag. He, like, leaned over and his hat fell off his cap onto the ground, and that was a lot, seeing that. It's hard, man. I've been to a lot of those, especially where you see their kids running around the kid and they just want to know what the hell is going on and when is my dad coming home he's not no and yeah i saw like a tweet it was like i don't know how many months spent overseas but many many months overseas to just die at home

1:40:19that was uh that was something that stuck with me just seeing that it's like a tweet or something

1:40:28sam you gotta stay ahead of this man this stuff it can creep up on you yeah it takes a long time to cycle through all the emotions trying my best uh this is my first time going through something like this Hopefully it's their last. Last time, yeah. Are you in therapy? No, not in therapy. Are you going to start? Probably not, no. Why?

1:41:03Because I think there's other ways of doing kind of self-therapy. I like going out into the garden.

1:41:16I find it therapeutic to talk with my friends or mentors that I really trust about it.

1:41:28Therapeutic for sure to do that. And a chaplain eventually. I think I see that. But right now, no. Well, as long as you're not internalizing at all, that's a good thing. No, definitely not internalizing it. I'm not bottling it up. I was one of those people back when I was like a little young teenager. I know it's not the right way.

1:41:59So. Well, when we wrap this up, I'm going to give you my contact info. If you need anything, anything. I appreciate it, Sean. Hit me up. I've been through just about every fucking healing avenue you can imagine so I can at least point you in a couple directions yeah I really appreciate that you listen to the show I do a lot like hours and hours a lot of avenues and a lot of mentors that would love to help you out man and your comrades Brad's, which I can't wait to meet them. I hope I do. Yeah. They would love to meet you. Open invite. Anytime you guys want to come out, we'll fly you up here. We'll put you up.

1:42:57We'll set it up. Thank you, Sean. My pleasure. um but yeah through all of this through all of this um i got i got called by somebody uh it's like a somebody just trying to reach out and they were like hey like you know you thinking about getting out now or like you know trying to get some disability. It's like, no. Good for you. No, I want to serve even more. Good for you, man. So.

1:43:41Is there anything you want to say to your comrades, your fellow cadets, that you haven't yet?

1:43:52maybe if I forgot to, but I'm proud of them. I'm proud and thankful for every single one of them. If I didn't, there it is. Is there anything you want to say to the Colonel? Colonel Shaw?

1:44:29I miss you, man. I do.

1:44:36You know, even through everything, like, not seeing out of the eye, I miss you.

1:44:48And I hope you know I tried my best. We tried our best. The team.

1:44:58Do you want to tell his son what kind of man he was? What was that? You want to tell his 10-year-old son what kind of man he was? Yeah. His dad. Your dad.

1:45:13He loved you so much. We all knew that as a class, and we never even met him. and that met his son.

1:45:25And

1:45:30everything, I think, I think everything he did was for his son.

1:45:38And same for his wife.

1:45:45Well, man, we're wrapping up the interview, but got you one last present. What's his name?

1:45:59You're a Catholic. You'll know what that is. It's a rosary. Thank you. Pull it out.

1:46:11You know who Dom Razo is? Yeah. I met him. You met Dom? Yeah. Yeah. When I was a high schooler, I worked at this restaurant down in Portsmouth, Virginia, Beer Garden. He frequented there a lot with his family. I'm not like short, kind of big beard. That's Dom. Yeah, I met him when I was like 16. He's got the knives and stuff. Yeah, this is sweet. Is this from him? Well, yes. Dom has those made, those rosaries, and he calls them the warrior rosary. And so I thought, when you told me you were Catholic earlier off camera, I thought, oh, man, I've got to give him one of these things. Yeah, like, I'm not even kidding.

1:47:16Like, I've served his family as, like, a teenager. Wow. Small world. Yeah, that's crazy. Small world. Yeah, he's an awesome guy. I met him. He was, it was a Sunday, I think, and he had taken his family to church, and he was getting a meal after church, and he was just talking, he was just talking to me. I was just a teen, like, a teenager. I wasn't even joining the army or anything at that point. Right on, man. Dom's a great dude. Yeah. Well, I thought you might like that. I do. I really. I carry one with me everywhere I go. I think that rosary brings a lot of protection and maybe you'll carry it too.

1:48:01Yeah. And so I thought maybe we could end this with a prayer that you lead for Colonel Shaw and his family.

1:48:20God, thank you for bringing us here today, keeping us safe.

1:48:34you know that day on March 12th it was a really bad day and

1:48:47you know I pray that you see Colonel Shaw's family and protect them and bring them as many blessings as you can and

1:49:10that you bring his son into your arms and keep him safe amen Mind if I add a little bit? Of course. And Jesus, I just would like to add that I just want to say thank you for Sam and his comrades for standing up in the face of fear that day. Because if they hadn't, who knows how many lives would be gone with Colonel Shaw.

1:49:55it's men like that that make this a great country and i also just want to say please be with colonel shaw's family they're going to need you more than anyone right now in these times and uh never forget amen amen

1:50:22yeah sam sean thank you man thanks like i said man anything you need reach out i really appreciate you man

1:50:37really appreciate it thank you it's an honor it's a real honor

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