#341 Katarina Szulc - Cartels Are Recruiting Drone Operators From the Ukraine War

30:05And because of their alliance, but because of just who they are, they're fighting against Mayo's faction of Sinaloa cartel operating in Zacatecas. This sub-cell formed, and it has now become extremely powerful, the new generation Zacatecas forces, where they are just killing and waging war against Maito Flaco's faction of the cartel and any of the Mayos operating in Zacatecas, but also law enforcement. and they actually killed a police officer yesterday. I think it was just one. It may have been more, but there was one for sure. And they're really showing their power there. And a lot of these guys were actually with the metros under El Sapo, who's also a major figure within CG &G.

31:01So I know it's a lot of names and words, but it's important because it shows how all of these sub-cells and groups, especially pertaining to CJNG, are in a way connected. And because of how these sub-cells and certain high-ranking plaza bosses or commanders within CJNG have their own loyal followings, that has been what's perpetuated this overall control that CJNG has gained across all of Mexico. And that's a big part of why when El Mencho was captured, killed in February, we didn't see like this huge breakdown of CG &G and infighting and extreme violence. I mean, you know, there was like a blip of buses were on fire, a National Guard was getting attacked, but we weren't seeing like this restructurization and house of cards falling in of CJNG, which could have been expected considering their leader, the Kingpin, was taken out.

32:10But because there are so many strong entities within CJNG and it's operating like a Fortune 500 with major figures with their own loyal followings, the amount of control and power they have over so much of the population and the country, it's hard to even grasp it. Who would, I mean, when you're talking about subsidies to major cartels, I mean, why even have subsidies under different names? Why don't they just absorb them under the same name? Okay, from my understanding, the reason why they do it is to maintain strong, loyal, and intact territorial control within smaller regions, right? Oh God.

32:58The naming thing has to do with who is the leader and to know like, okay, this group commits an act. Yes, we are CG &G, but that's us. You know, it's not just the broader CG &G. Does that make sense? No. It doesn't? Can you re... I mean, I'm thinking of it like Hell's Angels, the Mongols. Okay. The Gambino crime family. Like, all these other organized crime organizations, to my knowledge, they're all under one hierarchy. Yeah. Correct? And then you have the Los Angeles chapter, the San Antonio chapter, the Chicago chapter, the D.C. chapter, the Miami chapter, but they all fall under one conglomerate.

33:47It is kind of like that in the sense. So when we're talking about FZNG, the Zacatecas forces, that sub-cell, they're responsible for certain trafficking pipelines, certain amount of control in that region, paying off specific politicians and law enforcement. And so in a way, even though they're part of this great organization, they're also running their own independent operations that still are benefiting the greater organization. Okay. Is that better? Makes sense. Okay. Sorry, sometimes I get lost in the sauce, you know? I'm so in the weeds with it. You know, sometimes someone who has no knowledge will ask me like, hey, so yeah, the cartel, and it's just like a million miles a minute.

34:34What the hell are you talking about? So who oversees the entire thing? Is there one person that oversees the entire thing? Yeah, it's 03 now. It's Elementor's stepson. He was... How does he ensure his vision's being played out over that many different organizations? Because he has good relationships with other high commanders who have... You know, it's like a triangle, right? You'll have him at the top, and then you've got these top commanders, and then you've got the plaza bosses, and then you've got so-and-so down here and sub-cell leader and miscellaneous individuals even lower, right? That message is always getting passed through.

35:17And the higher up you go, those individuals, plaza bosses, commanders, are ensuring that people are acting in line. Everyone underneath is doing what the boss wants. Do you ever see any subsidiary cartels move in as kind of a Trojan horse to take down the entire... Do you see what I'm saying? Yes, but so far that has not happened with CJ and G. But you have seen it before. It's definitely happened. And that's why we see factions splinter off and cartels completely dissolve, and new ones are created. I mean, like, Los Cetas do not exist anymore, but... Those are the guys that were the... All special ops guys, supposedly, right?

36:01And most, like the head guys are now in the United States. They were part of the first fugitive transfer, CETA-40. They were very violent. They were the special forces guys, the ops guys, and they're trained by US forces.

36:20But back to the splintering off, that does happen, where one massive organization will sort of have sub-cells emerging, And now it's more localized loyalty as opposed to like the kingpin. And so if that individual says, you know what, F it, I'm going to start my own cartel, they can go and do that. And there will be a lot of bloodshed associated with that and, you know, kind of all out war at times. But if they're successful, then they're starting their own operation and they're making their own contacts or they already had contacts with the Colombians and the Guatemalans. and the Americans and even the Canadians, right, and the ports in Spain, so they can do that.

37:07We haven't seen that happen with CJNG yet. However, I believe that there are two significant figures high up within CJNG who I could picture splitting off and starting their own thing in a near future. I'm not 100 % about that, but I have seen and been told some things from sources that there's a little bit of conflict. It dies down pretty quick. There's a difference in opinion or how things should run. And those two individuals respectively have their own significant loyal followings and territories that they control. So if they really wanted to, they could. However, being a unified organization means more money.

38:05That makes sense. I mean, I would imagine the riff inside each cartel is pretty bad, too. There was a big riff when Elmencho was killed. And it was hard for me to verify it at first. But...

38:32Look, I'm not doing this to be dramatic. I just, I don't want to give too many details because, you know, I go back to Mexico and I, you know? No, I did, yeah. But there was someone very high-ranking within CG &G, a known figure, who, after Almencho was killed, really wanted to up the ante on the violence and to send some pretty wicked messages. and another high-ranking member said absolutely not squash that shit and and it ended there but i think that was kind of like that really did it for me it was like a telltale sign okay uh motivations might be changing ideologies are shifting here not everyone is fully on the same page.

39:19And there's been a lot of change in this organization because El Mencho was the leader. And now it's his stepson, Zero Tres, which essentially means that there's been this resurgence of the millennial cartel. CG &G is essentially run by the Queenies, the Valencia family, who were the ones who started trafficking, exporting cocaine into the United States. They They had those Colombian connections and they had the pathways into the United States because they were exporting avocados from Michoacan. And now this is the very family that always had the money behind CG &G. But now they are also the muscle and the leaders.

40:04Wow. That's interesting. I was going to bring up, you know, what are every time I talk to you or Luis or Ed, it seems like the business lines change. Because it always is. So, I mean, I don't want to lose this question either, so we'll get to that. But how much, you're talking about just mass violence. I mean, you went to, what did you say, in Aloha, I think you said, and you saw six murders in the first four hours, and that's just you. I'm sure there's plenty of other murders that are happening simultaneously. 100%. What, I mean, what, what, do you have any idea, what's the estimation of how much of the Mexican population is involved at a low level, at a high level, just involved on the cartel's payroll?

40:51From the street lookout people to the, the, to the assassins, to the politicians, I mean, is it the entire country? That's a big one. Is there anybody that's not involved? Of course. Yeah. I have some really great friends who are not involved. So you think. No, no, there's definitely a lot of people who are not, but the vast majority have some sort of nexus to the organized crime. And it makes sense, right? Like if we're looking... Would you say over 50 %? Yeah, I was gonna say that. Definitely over 50%. Would you say over 75 %? I don't know. I don't know. But it's a lot more than half. If we're looking at it from, like, you know, an economy perspective, the cartels are, like, the third largest employer in Mexico, I think.

41:54What's number one?

41:58I'm surprised it's not the number one. Probably agriculture. That's a great question. I'm gonna sound like a dumbass because I actually don't have this off the top of my head, but I know that they're in the top five of probably top three of employers, which how do you even quantify that? I don't know if it is. I don't know if you can do it. Oh, yeah, but it's when you're then including, okay, politicians on the payroll, law enforcement. So people who, and when I mean law enforcement, people who are not actively trafficking drugs or arms, but rather just simplest of it, turning a blind eye, looking the other way.

42:45Inherently, then, you are part of organized crime, right? But you're not technically a criminal. So it's certainly over 50%. It's definitely a really disheartening percentage. I mean, it is. It just makes me like, what hope do they have? The hope is that the culture is beautiful when you look past all of this. Okay. You're like, shut the hell up. So what... Are there other South Central American countries that aren't overtaken by this? How far into Central South America is this? Oh, very deep. Is this infiltrated? It goes, okay, so Guatemala, big part of it, okay? They're consumed. Ecuador, same.

43:37And then it goes low. Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, Brazil, even. So the connections... Influenced by Mexican cartel? or at least have connections with them. You know what's interesting? You bring up the influence of that. So when I went to Colombia in January, I went right when Maduro was captured because I wanted to get into Venezuela and they'd closed their airspace. So I went to Cucuta, which is a small town in Colombia right along the Venezuelan border. And Cucuta at one point in time, especially when El Chapo was still free, and running the Sinaloa Cartel was a major hotspot for Chapo's operators.

44:25And a lot of, you know, even his family members, his nephews and major commanders within Sinaloa Cartel were going to Cucuta to run operations from within Colombia. And it's not too far from Catatumbo, which is where you'll see those hectares of coca plant grow-ups. I actually took a helicopter ride to sea, and all you see are just coca leaves. for miles and miles. And so the presence isn't really there as much anymore since 2010. And when I went there, there is so much even cultural influence from Mexico because of the time when the Mexican cartels were using this as like a hub for trafficking cocaine.

45:12Wow. And I think that paints a really good picture when you ask me of, you know, what's the influence further south in South America, deeper in Latin America of the cartels? Well, they've been around for so long and their ties and nexus to these countries and the individuals operating within them is so strong that they've even managed cultural influence over them. You go to this small bar in the middle of nowhere along the Colombian-Menezuelan border and they're playing regional Mexican music and everybody knows the words. Wow. And they're even dressing with that sort of cartel guy swagger. The style, yeah.

45:57That's interesting. It shocked me to see it. I wasn't expecting that. I actually didn't know, had no idea it would be like that. So what are the lines of business? I mean, so far... Everything. I mean, it seems like everything. I mean, obviously fentanyl, cocaine, drugs, marijuana. We know that stuff. I don't even know. Is that stuff still the primary focus? Because it was either you or Luis last time I talked to you guys. They were taking over the water supplies. They were taking over the avocado farms. Then there's human trafficking. Fruit oil theft. Fruit oil, which I would imagine. I mean, so what is there any in the whole point of this was to was to appear legit, correct?

46:44Of course, it's to appear legit and to diversify the portfolio. Yeah, the revenue. Are there any new sources of revenue? Is the entire water supply under? I think we talked about this last time that they were also monopolizing like Wi-Fi providing Wi-Fi internet services in smaller towns for the most part. They're not doing this in like major cities. But yeah, smaller towns, they'll go and they'll cut the Wi-Fi wires. In small towns in Mexico too, it's not like wireless. And so they're going cutting it up, putting up their own and then going door to door and being like, now you're going to pay me and I'm going to provide you the Wi-Fi.

47:25Crude oil, we spoke about, that's a big one. And here's the thing, because sometimes I see people say, well, you know, we have to end the demand for drugs in order to end the cartels, that's a complete fallacy because it doesn't matter whether drugs exist or not, if they are profiting off of almost every good or service that they can take to the black market and make it profitable. Because crude oil is not a black market good, right? It's what makes the world go round. But when these guys are tapping into state-run pipelines in Mexico, stealing the crude oil, and then driving it across the U.S.

48:04and selling it to, you know, mom-pop refineries for half the price than if they were to purchase it legally, that becomes a black market good. The avocados, same thing. And, you know, that's been going on for ages. But that's also because of the region in which avocados grow in Mexico, in Michoacán. It's a major cartel hotspot. And actually, just a few months ago, the U.S. momentarily stopped the avocado import exports from Michoacan because of how extreme the cartel violence had gotten and how so many of the local farmers and agriculture producers were under extreme threats of their lives and of their livelihoods.

48:55and it's really sad and i'm not sure if i said last time but you know avocados is not it's not an easy thing to grow it can take like 30 years to grow an hoss avocado tree you know this is people's lives it's a generational trade and then you have guys coming in armored in armed vehicles saying i'm gonna fucking kill you or you're gonna pay me a quota which is typically 80 percent of how much these farmers are earning how do you even survive how do you support your family how do you support your crop if 80 % of your revenue is going to extortion fees, or if you can't pay that, this is no longer your land.

49:33We own it and we run it. So people are fleeing, leaving their generationally owned avocado orchards, or they're being murdered, or they're paying an extortion fee to the point where they lose their livelihoods entirely. So yes, every single

49:52method has been has been taken over by them and of course in order for that to happen it goes back into what you were saying earlier that directly ties back to the ignorant politicians who allow it to happen and who are profiting off of it because that's one thing that i really believe that there could be a crackdown on and say listen you guys are want to traffic your drugs and your arms, leave the farmers alone, you know, leave the oil lines alone. That stuff stays legal, but they don't do that. I mean, great example of this, of just how high it goes. Miss Universe. Mexico was Miss Universe, right?

50:42Her father is a high executive in Pemex because Mexico's oil is state-run Pemex and he's been accused I don't whether know whether or not it's formal if it actually was taken to court of a 700 million dollar contract with the one of the main execs of the Miss Universe competition because he's also very involved in Mexican politics they had a 700 million peso contract which just so happened during to come to fruition during the Miss Universe contract and this individual uh is actually in Mexico now in Mexico's federal witness protection program because he was accused of trafficking crude oil stealing it trafficking it and arms and so we're now we're talking about organizations that go so beyond even bypass mexico and miss universe has me blocked on instagram

51:52yeah wow but i just i don't um how do you dismantle that i don't it's kind of what i was getting at i mean it almost seems like there's no hope for them it goes so even as a politician I mean, you're saying well over 50 % of the people, the population down there. You said less than 75%, but more than 50%. I mean, that's... Because I don't want to be inaccurate, but... It's a big gap, though, is what I'm saying. And that's a lot of people. It is. A lot of people. Why did the U.S. turn the flow of avocados back? Because they turned it back on? Yeah, why did they turn it back on? There actually wasn't a reason for it, but I guess...

52:29I'm sure it didn't get better. You know, violence decreased, doubt it, but, I mean, if I were to send a press inquiry, that's probably the answer I would get.

52:42What other kind of international trade are they involved in other than avocados, obviously oil? What other countries are partaking? What other countries are partaking? I mean... These are legitimate businesses that I don't know how many people realize or know, you know, what's run by the cartel over there. I don't know if they know, you know, the water supply, the avocado trade. Everybody thinks cartels, they think drugs. Drugs, humans and guns. Drugs, human trafficking. Yeah. And you know, the focus lately, especially during this administration, it's been so heavily placed on fentanyl. And if we look at official numbers from both the US and Mexico, it seems like fentanyl seizures at the border have gone down.

53:26I have a hard time trusting those numbers because how can you quantify seizures? Like how do you know what is getting through? Like you can know what isn't, but you know what I mean? but cocaine is getting through at unprecedented numbers because the focus was so heavy on fentanyl that cocaine was kind of left in this area of, okay, let's just keep pushing it. All different levers. Yes, and the United States is certainly losing the war on cocaine by a landslide.

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56:27Join the Patreon community today and get access to the full experience. All right, Katerina, we're kind of talking about international trade and legitimate businesses and how they've bled into Central South America. How have they bled into the U.S.? Have they bled into the US? Of course. Yeah. Without the US, I don't think cartels would be successful, to be honest. Whether that's, of course, through the obvious, like drug consumption, but also they are the ones purchasing stolen crude oil, the avocados. You know, I think all three of us, Ed, Luis, and I have all said it, that like the Super Bowl is like a great day if you're a cartel operative who profits off of stolen avocados, which a lot of this is directly linking, of course, to the U.S.

57:30And there are certainly significant cartel operatives residing in the U.S. One important thing to mention, the new leader of CJNG, Cero Tres, and Mencho's stepson is an American citizen. He was born in Santa Ana, California. And this is really the first time where a major kingpin is an American citizen. It's supposed to make that harder for US authorities who are, you know, applying the kingpin strategy left, right and center when it comes to Mexican cartels, just because of intelligence gathering, right? Technically, the CIA can't do that, but he's also running a foreign terrorist organization.

58:14So it's great no matter how you look at it. But another, you know, I know we say the humans, the human trafficking, the sex trafficking is a major operation, particularly too for CG &G. CG &G doesn't really touch fentanyl the way the Sinaloa cartel does because fentanyl production was created by, allegedly, Ivan Archivaldo, El Chapo's son. He was the one that got in touch with the Chinese cooks, figured out that this synthetic, easy to make drug, highly addictive, potent drug would be very profitable for them. CJNG, however, focuses more on meth, cocaine, human trafficking. and I never really wanted to cover human trafficking or sex trafficking for the very selfish reason of it's very hard to talk about, hear about.

59:15It's very tragic. And a lot of the work is tragic, but this is something where you feel like you cannot make anything better and you're talking to victim after victim who has been brutalized by sex trafficking, you want to die. And so this summer, I did a whole story on how human sex trafficking in Mexico directly links to the United States and how a lot of the major individuals responsible for trafficking women from central and southern Mexico and even further down in South America are... these men in control or family networks, I guess, are actually operating from the United States. And they're going into these small towns and they're luring and recruiting women and bringing them to border towns and some of them bringing them into the United States, where they're working at clandestine bars as sex workers.

1:00:20and they were misled to be there. They... didn't know that they were going to have to provide sexual services... against their will. And most of the clientele, at least from the women that I spoke to, who got out of it or are still in it, unfortunately, especially along borders and, obviously, in the United States, they say that most of their clientele are Americans. And so when I did this story, I was like in Tijuana and I'm like, you know, I'm sure a lot of you recognize where I'm at. I had all the famous strip clubs behind me, Hong Kong. And I'm like, you know, some of you probably come here to have fun and for cheap sex.

1:01:11But let's talk to the women who are actually providing these services who didn't know or ever imagine that they would end up here. And it's a very sophisticated network. These women are from small towns, most of them. They're very young. And typically a lot of them come from pretty conservative families. Very religious, like not a lot of exposure. And not saying that's a bad thing, but you know what I mean. It's just a smaller world. And a man who splits his time between Mexico and the United States comes to this small town and falls in love with the 17-year-old girl. You know, he's older, but she's never had a guy pay attention to her in this way.

1:02:03And she will fall in love. It's the Romeo method. He wins her over, even wins the family over a lot of the time. and we'll either sleep with her like take her virginity or maintain it and say we're gonna have sex after we get married and then he will tell her you know what for work we have to go to this border town let's use tj's common one let's go to tijuana for work you know we're gonna move there just for a little bit you're gonna do great blah blah and this young woman okay this is what i have to do for my family my man i've never you know been in a relationship whatever they move to tijuana and as soon as she gets there she's thrown into a house where multiple other women are living with this man and she's told that she has to go and make x amount of money every night aka sleep with as many many many men as possible until you make this quota and if you don't he will beat you up very severely um and with they withhold everything from these women their phones their ids everything is taken away from them and they will even go through the legal route uh through to want a sanitary department there's an official name for it where you legally register as a prostitute they will do that for these women so sometimes they'll wait until these women turn 18 so they can legally register them some of them will even legally marry them so it these women essentially become like their property and um one of the women i spoke to who's from a small town in central mexico where a lot of women get trafficked and a lot of traffickers actually originate from she told me as soon as she got to tijuana with her husband uh he took her phone her IDs, registered her.

1:04:02She didn't want to work. He beat her up so badly, she went to the hospital, was very scared, and started working. And for 10 years, gave sexual services to up to 30 men a night. Oh, sheesh. Yeah, worst thing you've ever heard, right?

1:04:22And then she tried to go to the authorities, her with some other girls. house and they said okay first of all I'm I'm giving an idea of what she told me she said first of all they told her well you're married to him so that's that's a spousal dispute that's that's on you guys like whatever he's making you do or whatever's going on there like you guys are just in a fight um and also you know no one is forcing you by your hair to go work the corner you choose to go out and work there and give the sexual services. So they didn't do anything. And it was very hard for her to escape. How did she escape?

1:05:07She got pregnant with him. And, you know, I asked her, I said, were you worried? Because his whole family, this trafficker and the man she considers to be her husband, the whole family does human trafficking. This is very common in Mexico where it's family networks who have generationally done human trafficking and then they are giving money or kind of operating in tangent with like the cartel, but they are not themselves the cartel. and she got pregnant and she was like she had already lost a pregnancy before and she said i had to leave and she goes i just grabbed all my shit and i got back home and i had like no money to do it and she escaped to her family and i asked her you know were you and she still has a relationship with her trafficker who she considers her husband because he's the father of her child and she told me that she feels like no man will ever love her knowing what she has done in her life.

1:06:19So this is the only man who has, in a way, as evil as he was, and she said this, as evil as he was, is still with her. Sheesh. And when she told me that she got pregnant, which was what she used, I guess, as leverage to leave, I said I was like you know were you worried uh that it would be a girl because it's actually quite common unfortunately where traffickers will impregnate the girls and then if it's a daughter then they'll bring them up whatever then that girl gets trafficked and in our interview she starts bawling when I asked her this and then I start crying and she was like my biggest fear was to have a girl i prayed every night that god would not send me a daughter because life as a woman is horrible and the life that she lived was tragic and she told me most of the clients she was serving uh were american citizens americans who were coming to to Tijuana for sex tourism.

1:07:36And she was abused a lot. Of course, you know, it comes with the territory.

1:07:44Yeah, that was the worst thing ever. And she did tell me of a lot of girls she knew that were trafficked, who were in Tijuana with her at some point, and then if they were successful, aka making a lot of money, or, you know, very attractive considering the atmosphere, they would be taken to major cities in the United States to provide services. San Diego, Houston, LA, New York is also a big one. Shit. And actually in this town that I went to, I went to Tlaxcala, it's a state outside of Mexico City. It's actually kind of, there's a running joke on the state that it's the forgotten state because it's the smallest.

1:08:26And a lot of people haven't even heard of it. Even Mexican nationals, there's that. when I'm like, I went to Tlaxcala, they're like, what the fuck is that? There's a direct link between Tlaxcala as a human trafficking hub to major American cities. A major human trafficking network was actually taken down by authorities, American authorities in New York, I want to say three years ago. And they were directly working with traffickers and getting girls from Tlaxcala, the forgotten state of Mexico.

1:09:06Man. It was the worst story I've ever done.

1:09:13And when I did this story, I wanted to obviously speak with the governor of Tlaxcala. You know, your state is known as a human sex trafficking hub. That's not ideal. How are you combating this? And I had seen that she had, that what I had seen is three times she had publicly denied that there was a human trafficking problem in Tlaxcala. She said that it was being misrepresented and overblown. So I'm trying to set up an interview with her. And at first her office seems very keen. Yeah, she wants to give her side of the story and that's kind of also how I played it, right? I want to know what's really happening from you.

1:09:51You're the one in charge. Tell me the truth. You know, I know what the truth is. I'm fucking seeing it. I'm talking to the people who are being terrorized by the reality of the situation. But let's hear from the individual who's supposed to maintain the integrity and the safety and well-being of the state and its citizens, who's obviously not doing that. And let's see what she has to say. so i'm speaking with the office of the governor to set this up and a representative from her office who i guess runs all the the media um situations says to me yeah okay gobernadora will talk to you i'm gonna be you're gonna be here on these dates you can come to the palace blah blah how much and i'm like how much i have to pay to do the interview i don't do that And she goes, no, no, no.

1:10:41How much do you need for a good interview?

1:10:47And I'm listening to this, I'm thinking, am I stupid? Like, am I not understand? Do I not speak Spanish right now? And I'm like, you're going to pay me to interview the governor? And she's like, yes, how much? I said, I'm sorry, I'm not understanding. So you're going to give me money if I interview the governor? And she goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you can send us, you know, the cut before you publish it, we just like to look at it for... I'm like, that's not journalism, man. I don't do that. You know, I should have asked how much she would be willing. That was, I was just so shocked in the moment that that had happened.

1:11:30It was the first time that I had been offered money by a government official to do a story so that it would feed their narrative. and I was shocked. Governor didn't end up doing the interview with me. They gave me a secretary of women, which is a position in Mexico for women's well-being and stuff, tasked with women's safety. Governor didn't do it. Jeez. So you're offering me money to interview you because you want me in my report to put that there isn't a human trafficking problem. Right after I just spoke with a woman who told me that she was trafficked and lured from this state, asked for help, never received it, and was terrorized for a decade of her life, and is back here and has no resources to access to even maybe make something better of her life that was destroyed, get wrecked.

1:12:31Wow. Wow. And when you talk about the American connection, I understand that there's this perception that, well, you know, cartels are Mexico's problem. At least that was the perception for a long time. And I think we even spoke about this last time where, well, that's not our problem. I mean, you guys, I'm not American, but that's not a U.S. problem. That's a Mexico problem. And there has always been this kind of distinction between, so U.S. is combating fentanyl and cartels. Why? because fentanyl is killing Americans at record rates. But then there's this other side of it that has a lot more nuance, where now this Mexico problem is a problem because of Americans, and now it's becoming an American problem.

1:13:20And I think human trafficking is a prime example of that, because these girls are being trafficked into the U.S., and then these guys aren't getting caught. who's to say that they're not also trafficking American women simultaneously? Of course they are. It's a massive network. And if it spans borders, they have no limit.

1:13:45You know, Trump, did he announce all cartels, foreign terrorist organizations? I think so, yeah. Or just a couple? Not, so originally, it wasn't all of them. It was a list of, I think, eight. Some were missing, but they've since expanded that list. So I'm not sure if all of them are designated yet, but for the most part, all bases are covered now. So has the U.S. done anything? Have they actually treated them like terrorist organizations? Have there been any arrests, hits, drone strikes? Do we have intelligence services down there? I mean, a lot of questions I just hammered you with. Let's start with this.

1:14:26How has that affected the cartels mindset and operations, if at all, by them being labeled a terrorist organization? I truly do not believe that the FTO designation actually impacted cartel operations. They adapt like cockroaches, really. You know, U.S. will sanction someone, shut down this bank account, arrest this person. It doesn't matter because they've already pivoted five different ways. Um, in terms of arrests, people are, especially people on the U.S. side of the border who have links or are operating or profiting off of the cartels are being arrested and charged as foreign terrorists, which is different.

1:15:12Uh, so if they're like colluding with the cartel, now you, you were operating, aiding with a foreign terrorist organization. in terms of intelligence we know the u.s has been and is continuously gathering intelligence on the ground in mexico when the fto designation was first announced everyone was asking that was the hot topic right will there be american boots on the ground in mexico in an intelligence capacity yes of course and there has been for a very long time and we saw not so long ago that um two cia agents were actually killed they died in a car crash in chihuahua dressed in mexican police uniforms because they went to dismantle a meth lab so yeah we know intelligence is being gathered there i mean ryan wedding el mencho those people are not being taken out simply due to mexican intelligence.

1:16:17I mean, U.S. is openly taking credit for it, for the intelligence gathering to find the location of El Mencho. But when we're talking about drone strikes, boots on the ground in terms of typical warfare, I don't think that will ever happen. I hope it doesn't. I've never wanted that to be the case because I think it would result in a lot more bloodshed and uncertainty and disorganization than good, because the cartels will fight. I mean, do they... Since that's... How long ago did that happen? Has it been about a year? The FTO designation? Yes. Two years? Two years? Well, it was... Yeah, it was...

1:17:01Am I right? I think it's about a year. No, when did... When was Trump... When did Trump take office? January... 2024. 24. That was, then it was two years. Yeah, that was, he signed that executive order. She was 24, took office 25. Oh, so it was a year. I have no concept of time these days. Me neither. It's so bad. It's so bad. But, so, I mean, since you've been down there in the past year and a half, is, I mean, is there any chatter about, when you're talking to these guys, they don't give a shit. They do not give a shit. Do they wear it as a badge of honor? Do they, or are they? They don't care.

1:17:40Indifference. They don't care. Indifference. It's like it's never even happened. Yes. It makes no difference. Wow. That's... I wasn't expecting that. According to polymarket.com, there's an 11 % chance of conducting a drone, missile, or airstrike inside Mexico before the end of this year. How likely do you think it is that the United States eventually carries out a drone, missile, or airstrike against a cartel target inside of Mexico? I'm not a financial advisor, but do not bet on that, because it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. You don't think so, huh? I'm actually very certain it won't.

1:18:21And the reason for that is they don't need to do that. Their current tactic of splintering the cartels and having them kill each other off is a lot more effective and cheaper than doing all of that shit.

1:18:37I don't know. It doesn't sound very effective to me when we're talking about... They're essentially dismantling the Sinaloa cartel. Yeah, but another one's just taken over. Yeah, but that will always happen. The drone strike will do the same thing.

1:18:51And it will turn people against eradicating the cartels. People who do not want the cartels because now you've caused war in their country, in their home. There was a video that just came out of a group of women in, oh, it's a southern state in Mexico. And they're being terrorized by the local cartel, local criminal groups. And they're saying in the video, there are these older Mexican women, President Trump, please help us. Please get rid of the cartels. They're asking a foreign president to help them with their domestic problem. I don't think, though, drone strikes and full-blown war would actually end up in that scenario by any means.

1:19:44And I think that what they're doing now is—so here's the thing. I don't personally believe it's effective, the whole kingpin strategy whatsoever, right? It's a hydra. You cut off the hydra, two more grow back. they killed el mencho which was supposed to be like holy you know the ultimate kingpin boom like nothing happened 24 hours later business as usual but what they're doing with sinaloa cartel for example of turning everyone against each other and then making deals with the very terrorists they're against right striking a deal with all of El Chapo's kids, the family, oh, plea deal here, you can live in the U.S., visa here.

1:20:37I think that sends more of a message to the cartels than a drone strike. I do think, though, and there has certainly been chatter, that a lot of these guys feel like if they end up in U.S. custody, if they have good information that the U.S. wants, they'll get an easy break. Which is... Could not be a bad method. And it's true. Like, we're seeing it happen. For them, I mean. Yeah, of course. And I'm under the impression that that is exactly the reason why Mexican forces killed El Mencho and didn't capture him alive. You know, they say that there was this massive shootout. I'm sure there was. and that El Mencho died in transit to Mexico City.

1:21:34But I think of anyone, El Mencho had so much information, particularly on high-ranking politicians that the U.S. is very interested in. And that would have been very bad. Well, that doesn't surprise me. By the way, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on the drone strikes. No, but you can. I actually, if I did this, I'll roll the clip right now. I think that the way to do it would be, and I don't know, like I said, it's been a minute since I've talked about this, but I don't know how combative the cartels are towards each other anymore. anymore, but I think what I would do is I would probably create some type of a psychological operation that pits the cartels against each other and basically create a false narrative so that this cartel and this cartel hate each other and they go to war with each other and then find ways to intervene and you know what I mean.

1:22:38I'm pretty sure I brought up this exact of turning the cartels against each other from the inside talking to Luis Chaparro many years ago. I think you actually also probably brought it up to me. But, you know, here's some things that we're not thinking about with the drone strikes, you know. And I don't know how they're set up, so this is all hypothetical. But drone strikes, precision strikes, however we do it, go in there with U.S. force, which I don't necessarily think we should be doing with as many wars as we're involved in right now. Yeah, I don't think so.

1:23:39stuff from the U.S. I don't know what they're doing with those. I don't know if they have caches, but if they do have big caches, they could hit it with a drone strike. You know what I mean? And, and, and, and, and handicap their, you know, their supplies. I know that they, which we're getting ready to get into here after this, but FPV drones, it's becoming a big thing, right? Right down there. Oh, they have a ton of drones. You know what I mean? So somebody's manufacturing those drones and they're likely in some type of a facility manufacturing these drones they can hit those you know what I mean and so if there's high concentrations of cartel I'm not just talking about you know what I mean hitting El Chapo or any of these other leaders I mean you have the supply you hit the infrastructure yeah and you hit the infrastructure all at once and it cripples them.

1:24:34On top of that, you also can play into the, you know, who got this info to them, you know what I mean? You can still turn them against each other from the inside and, you know, play the exterior rivalry, you know what I mean, between cartel and cartel and just make it mass hysteria down there for them. And so I don't know if I would write it off completely. I do see what you're saying. I mean, generally, when bombs start going off people's backyards, they don't like it. But it's already happening all the time anyway down there. And it is affecting more than just the U.S. I mean, I don't know what the impact in Canada is, but it sounds, you know, they're going, they're bleeding into Europe.

1:25:18And so at some point, something's going to have to give here or else they're just going to run the entire world. But what do you think of that? I think it's a good strategy. I mean, this is not my job to create strategies on how to end cartels. You don't think about that ever? I do, of course. I don't think I'm the expert to even pitch how to do it, to be honest. It's also not my responsibility.

1:25:50um but i i think that that could be effective because their weaponry especially like you said the drones the guns um that's what they need they need that muscle and but i think they could do it without drone strikes almost maybe i'm being naive i'm sure some people will think so but 70 % of the guns in Mexico, well, at least found at crime scenes, are coming from the United States, are American-made. And so ideally, right, it would be best if that stopped before they even get into the hands of the criminals. But just a few days ago, a massive shipment of DJI drones in Mexico was stolen. They don't know who stole it.

1:26:38You know, it could be cartel, it could be someone who's going to sell it. But I know that the majority of weapons in Mexico are coming from the US and Israel. And that goes beyond regular weaponry, right? Even spyware. I think we talked about Pegasus last time. Mexico is the number one country of Pegasus. They were the first country to actually do a contract with Pegasus. And that's because... Because actually a previous president, Peña Nieto, allegedly accepted a$25 million bribe from two executives at NSO, the company that started Pegasus Spyware out of Israel.

1:27:21And he implemented Pegasus as part of their national security apparatus. It was the first country to do it. They were the first one to have that contract. And then an Israeli news outlet said that these two individuals, two execs for Pegasus, bribed the Mexican president at the time with $25 million to implement Pegasus into their national security apparatus. and Peña Nieto denied this. A person who's never on social media following his presidency goes onto Twitter and is like, this is terrible. There's no journalistic rigor in this reporting. This is completely wrong, false. I would never do this.

1:28:16And then a few days ago, a video comes to light. You see him at a wedding with the very individual. last name Nedia, I think, who gave him the$25 million bribe. Wow. Who was accusing, yeah. And in Israel, there was like this tribunal held. It wasn't like official court, but it's like five rabbis. It's kind of like an arbitrary kind of court hearing with the two NSO individuals because they were, you know, having a dispute over the company. And one of them says to Nedia, you know, you need to pay me back. I want out of this. You need to pay me back. So they're listing off everything that he can get money from.

1:29:02And he goes, and remember, we bribed that president with 25 million. Give me the 25 million. And Neria, the individual who was spotted with Peña Nieto a few days ago, doesn't say, no, we never did that. No, there's no money there. He says, no, it was less than 25 million what we gave him. And that's all documented. and Pegasus took over Mexico's state security, it became very problematic and very dangerous because, sure, perhaps that was meant to be part of the infrastructure of the government. It got into the hands of cartels. They were using it to spy on journalists, on clean politicians, the few and far in between.

1:29:47Um, and people were certainly murdered because of the access to that, the widespread access. Sorry, that was a bit of a tangent there. No, no.

1:30:02Man, what a problem. I mean, it's just... President is accepting a$25 million bribe for spyware tech? Crazy.

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1:32:39I mean, somebody would have to...

1:32:45It's just, I don't even... I mean, you could boycott, you know what I mean? Who's buying the oil? The stolen crude oil? Who's buying the oil? American refineries. American refineries. Mm-hmm. There was actually a case a year ago. It was a family out of Utah, I believe. And they were indicted because they were buying stolen crude oil and smuggling it in through the port of Brownsville. And they ran a, I think, Jensen family, something like that. They had a kind of family-run smaller refinery, and they were knowingly purchasing the stolen crude oil because it was a lower price. But you'd have to...

1:33:38I mean, you'd just have to totally... cripple their infrastructure, their money-making machine, which is boycott on avocados, penalize U.S. companies that are... Or just make it illegal, which that would probably take 20 years in the U.S. Yeah. I mean, you'd have to destroy all of their fentanyl, cocaine, whatever. You'd have to do all of that. You'd have to get rid of the weapons. I don't know exactly how you would take care of the human trafficking problem, but that would narrow it to one scope. And then the other thing you would have to do is handle their government, which the U.S. is horrible at.

1:34:32But it would take some type of intervention, fair election cycles, better protection for politicians, shit like that, for it to even have a chance. which I'm sure none of it is happening. So. The last election in Mexico was one of the most violent in history where Claudia Schattenbaum won with a historic landslide. And above all, it would take the people of Mexico to actually stand up. Yeah. There's a level of acceptance. And if they don't want to, then this whole thing is just. Yeah. You know, I've spoken to a lot of people, especially in Sinaloa, they're very tired of it and they want it to end and they'll take the stand.

1:35:17But also, you know, we have to appreciate that there's so much deep-rooted fear in standing up against that. It's completely understandable. It's like, how do you take on this big beast if even the government can't? It's a collective approach with - Well, the government's part of the beast. Exactly, yeah. You know. Man, rough time down there. Have you heard of El Salvador's infamous SECOT prison? Do you think anything like that would work? So there's actually a lot of Mexican people I've spoken to who are very anti-carteles that say they would love to see that in Mexico, that that's what it needs, that Mexico needs a Bukele.

1:36:01I think if they were to go after everyone, just like Bukele did, and anyone who has any morsel of connection to criminals or criminal activity goes straight to jail with no end in sight, you know, indefinitely, yes, it could be effective. But like I said, the different, what Mexico would also have to do that El Salvador kind of got under control is they would have to compensate in the economy, right? Because like we said, it's so much of it is run by the cartels. And that would be the part that disincentivizes them from just being like, we're gonna go and do this widespread cleanup and throw everyone into this mega prison like Seco.

1:36:47But I have heard that before. And I actually know a lot of people who are like very anti-cartel in Mexico who say that they would like to see that happen. And they're like, it's not best case scenario, but it's gotten to that point. I mean, that was one of the most violent places on the world. And now it's one of the safest. You know? Yeah.

1:37:14And there's obviously, like, a lot of human rights concerns that we've heard about. People are in there that they have nothing to do with it, and how people are being treated. And, I mean, when you're talking about tackling this huge beast of crime and violent crime, that's kind of part of the nature. Wouldn't you agree? Mm-hmm. It's unfortunate. It is, of course. Well, let's move into Ukraine. What's going on with the cartels in Ukraine? So last summer, I saw that France and Mexico had sent an intelligence report to Ukraine notifying them that there were foreign mercenaries, foreign fighters in Ukraine that were training up on FPV drone tactics only to go to Mexico and work for the cartels as FPV drone operators.

1:38:09And so I was like, OK, this is very interesting. Let's dig into it. Come to find out there was one individual, and he goes by Aguila 7, Eagle 7. He went to Ukraine with false documentation and went to a very well-known drone training facility where he raised some red flags because he was already very well-versed in FPV drone flying. and i guess someone the details aren't super clear and even when i was digging for information on this it was really hard also keeping in mind it's an active war zone so you know they're trying to also protect the integrity of their infrastructure security etc even image to a degree so it seems like some of the uh trainers caught on that something may have been off and that his intentions were odd and his capabilities.

1:39:09He was flagged and then an investigation went on where they found out that he had direct links to criminal organizations in Latin America. And that's really all it says. But it seems as though he was directly connected to Mexican cartels and to FARC as well. So after that, okay, looking into it, whatever, we go to Ukraine. my cameraman and I, and we go to these drone training facilities where it's quite simple. Flying FPV drone is kind of like playing a video game, and actually young people are pretty good at it because they're well-versed in playing video games. The only thing obviously that changes is that once you have the bombs strapped to it and the weight and the understanding of dropping it and accuracy, whatever.

1:40:01you also do not see the kill happen the camera shuts off right at launch so it also creates like this disconnect to modern to typical warfare i guess we go to these training facilities and i begin to like ask everyone you know what about these foreign fighters that are coming here have you guys seen people that seem like they have they're ill-intentioned or you know they're not to fight the war, even for the money to be a mercenary, but they're here because they want to learn something. And there was mixed reactions. We went to a lot of different facilities, training facilities. Some people said, yeah, you know, you'll...

1:40:46some guy will come here from Colombia and will go on his TikTok, and he's showing him with, like, an AK-47 in, like, the hood in Colombia. We're like, what is he doing here? a lot of them are just like police officers or ex-military and so they have this legitimate experience and now they're applying it over there whether it's for the pay trick or because they you know they believe in ukraine's autonomy whatever it is that at the end of the day didn't even matter i was curious to see how and why the cartels are getting people from here so So it seems like there's two things happening simultaneously.

1:41:23First, that at one point in time, a few individuals, small amount, were sent on purpose with false documentation, some of them even through private military companies, to Ukraine to get trained up on drones, serve their six months, and then go back to Mexico. And now they knew how to use drones and they would become the trainers in Mexico. Another thing is happening. A lot of Latin American foreign fighters in Ukraine, once their time serving is coming up to an end, they are being recruited by cartels in Mexico, offered money and will go straight from Ukraine to Mexico. now to fight on the front lines with CJ &G,

1:42:19particularly in Michoacan, with cartels operating in Michoacan. There's actually... How are they recruiting? Through social media. Through social media. Yeah. So a lot of these guys are posting on their TikTok and Instagram of them fighting the war there and being in Ukraine. And a lot of it, obviously, is in Spanish because they're Latin American. And I guess there's some people within the cartels tasked with seeking these individuals out, offering them money and like this recruitment package to go to Mexico and fight there. Do you have any idea how much they're paying? I have no idea, but I don't think it's a lot because based on the profile of the individuals who are actually ending up there, they're not coming from well-paying jobs in Colombia or well-paying positions in Ukraine, and they're ending up on front lines in Mexico.

1:43:11So the money can't be good. There's one individual, he's kind of everywhere, or at least, you know, I've seen him a lot. He's Colombian, fought in Ukraine, now is on the front lines in Michoacan. with the cartel, and he will wear... he wears the Colombian flag patch, Ukraine and now Mexico. And he even, like, kind of... In a video that was circulating that I saw of him, he was bragging about it, like, a Colombian and I was in Ukraine, and now I'm with the cartel fuckers, yeah, in Mexico. Shit. Any idea how many people they've recruited from the Ukrainian? I have no idea. And I'm telling you, it's like, this has been the hardest thing to track down.

1:43:55It is so hard. It appears like either nobody's keeping track or nobody wants to keep track or it's happening under the radar, which I don't think it is. Do you have any idea how much? I'm just curious. I mean, there's a ton of U.S. GWAT veterans that are... I saw so many of them. You know, that are over there right now. I think they've already caught U.S. special ops guys down there helping out, training. I've seen a lot of it. There were a lot of Americans there, especially at the training facilities that we went to. Not the drone training. Wait, in Ukraine or in Mexico? In Ukraine. Sorry, were you asking me about Ukraine or Mexico?

1:44:43Mexico. Coming from Ukraine to Mexico. So, American GWAC guys that were serving in Ukraine voluntarily and then went to Mexico? No, just GWAC in general, before Ukraine. I'm saying there is a large pool of combat experience to draw from today. To train cartels. Yes. To fight with cartels. And they have a lot of money. And experience. Yeah. I mean, cartels have a lot of money to pay. To pay for these guys? Yeah. Well, I've... There have been some things that I have seen that it's... It's very clear... that there are some individuals from the US who... are very highly trained that are offering some training services to...

1:45:41cartel fighters. You've seen this. Seen it? Not in person, but I've received information and... I have to say this in a way where I don't make this risky for myself. Mm-hmm. It's not... This isn't like a common thing that's happening, okay? It's not like this systemic issue, but it exists. You know, that would be interesting for you. I mean, I know you're obviously involved with Ironclad. They've got a lot of people within special operations. It would be interesting if you could source somebody yourself or through them, maybe who doesn't have a face on the internet, to go down there with you and assess tactics and see if they think that some of the tactics that these guys are using are coming from U.S.

1:46:41special operations. I would like to do a story like that. That would be interesting. You could get somebody in there with you that doesn't have a footprint on the internet. And they can clock exactly what tactics and methods are linked back here. I mean, you could probably get to a training facility. I know Luis got to a training facility, brought us footage of it. Yeah. You know, and it was a very good training from what he showed me. It was horrible. It's very rudimentary. But, you know, I'm sure there are different levels, you know, that these, that, that, that, that, that I'm sure there's different levels of operations going on within the cartel.

1:47:22At least I would think as sophisticated as they are in business, I'm sure, I'm sure militarily they have, they have their elite all the way down to, you know, here's a gun, go shoot. Yeah. But if you could get a guy like that into one of these facilities to just observe, they would be able to tell you where this is coming from. The only problem with pursuing a story like that right now is just everything is very hot. It would be very dangerous. I wanted to go to some regions in Sinaloa when I was there to kind of see who was running the show, especially if it was like historically El Chapo's region.

1:48:06Okay, what's going on there now? And even some of my sources within the cartel were like, it will be dangerous for you. It's like, shit, okay, if you're saying that, it's a no-go. And a lot of these training facilities have become like kill houses. They're very violent now, especially the ones run by CG &G. There's a lot of fighting to the death, sacrificial stuff. It's... Sacrificial stuff? Yeah, like killing, killing, kill this guy in front of everyone else or beat him up. Oh, that's how you get in. Yeah. So it's extreme violence. and, of course, that type of stuff that they do not want publicized.

1:48:47It's bad PR for them. So when two years ago, what's called the extermination ranch in Jalisco was found, Rancho Iseguerre, like 60 kilometers outside of Guadalajara, that was said to have been a CJ &G recruitment camp and training camp but it was also an extermination camp. A lot of people were taken there to die. A lot of people died there. A lot of people were forced to fight to the death. Or just really heinous, violent behavior. And it seems like that's the M.O. now for these cartel training and recruitment camps. There's a lot of extreme violence that goes on. So I would draw the line there for me personally.

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1:51:05You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to live. Are these all Latin American fighters that they're recruiting from Ukraine? Or are they recruiting from all over the world? It seems like so far, my knowledge, just Latin American. Why do you think that is? You think it's price? For the cartels? Mm-hmm. I think it's price and language. Language. They can communicate with them and they don't have to pay them a ton. Are you saying, you know, I kind of mentioned this earlier, like you're talking about DGI shipments and stuff. I would think that's a little bit, I mean, I'm actually surprised to hear that, that they're ordering drones from DGI.

1:51:51Those are expensive, even if they're stealing them. um i just why are you hearing any of are you hearing any 3d printing is what that's the new jam it is it's 3d printing factories whether you're you're in ukraine haiti haiti it's happening all over the place it's just they they they take over a building do whatever and they make a 3d printing house and they just are shitting out drones by the you know every second are you are Are they doing that down there? So from what I've seen, it's not common at all to 3D print like the drone itself, but they are 3D printing certain components for the drones that are dropping bombs.

1:52:35Not the kamikaze drones, but like literally an FPV drone. They'll 3D print certain components to attach whatever to it or enhance it to whatever they need. I mean, I could even, I could give you some videos. I'm being sent videos left, right, and center. I would obviously see some videos. Yeah. I have a ton of drone videos in my phone because these guys are really proud of it. So they're sending it around. I get drone videos as soon as the bombs are dropped from the drone, essentially. And you can see where they've altered the drone. And the expensive part of buying those, it's not a problem for them.

1:53:20They're using these to target mostly law enforcement and adversarial groups, but particularly for law enforcement because it keeps them law enforcement away from their hub of operation. So, yeah, I have seen more drone videos than I'd like of people getting exploded, locations getting exploded, convoys of law enforcement getting exploded. Is it one drone? So here's what I'm getting at next.

1:53:57That's actually the old days now. One improvised explosive on a kamikaze drone. Do you hear anything about cartels investing into large language models, AI-type software, so that they can run entire drone swarms where it's not an individual operator per drone? They actually have some type of a large language model that they can get 50, 100, 1 ,000 drones. I mean, if they did that, if they were able to accomplish that, they wouldn't need all the personnel. I have not seen that yet in Mexico. It could exist. I haven't seen it. They could be keeping it low-key or it's just not happening. I think it could certainly get to that point.

1:54:45But so far, I don't think that that's necessary. I think with the status quo, with what they have of these large FPV drones, that's good enough for them. But certainly, you're right. For the manpower, it would be great. But I think that the groups that need the manpower the most, like we're talking about fractured cartels, for example, where they're like needing men, they don't actually have the capital to invest in something like that. That could make up for their manpower because they're struggling to keep up with how it is already. Gotcha.

1:55:25Man, we've covered a lot of ground there. Am I missing anything? with the Ukraine connection? No, that was mostly it. Yeah. So we're wrapping up the interview, but what do you think the future, and this could go for another hour, what do you think the future holds for cartels? What do you think they're going to move into? What do you see coming in the future? If you had a crystal ball in front of you, what would it be telling you? Okay, there's a couple major things that I think are going to happen. first i think that the u.s government is really going to do anything in it in their power to try to turn everyone against each other even if that means somehow starting lies that move through the ranks of cartels um so that they continue to take each other out turn against each other splinter fracture whatever you want to call it i think that in spite of cgng's leader being gone we are only going to continue to see the rise of power and control that cgng has over the entire cartel landscape over all of mexico and the global drug trade they have so much money power and vision and they are probably like the foreign terrorist organization and i i don't see that ending i just i think it's going to grow and there are some uh actually very high iq individuals particularly in that Valencia family that are going to ensure that operations continue to run and if not expand.

1:57:18And finally, I think that the next Mexican president will, I think it's probably going to be Omar Garcia Harfuch, the Secretary of Security. And I think that he's going to work very closely with the Americans it's going to kind of be like we're flipping a page it's going to be different than with Claudia Sheenbaum who kind of pushes back um but I don't entirely see that as a positive thing because I think that also Harfuuch has sometimes his own agenda nefarious or not that that he will continue to execute at the same time as handing over everyone to the US or allowing the US to operate in Mexico.

1:58:17Do you... I mean, obviously the U.S. has great interest in getting involved at some point. To the point that the hand will be forced at some point. It already is, I think. Are there any other nations that are getting to the point that they're going to have to get involved? bigger nations i'm not talking about central america you know what about canada what about any european countries i think canada should i mean we have a major fentanyl problem over there you know it matches that of of the u.s and a border problem i talked about this last time that a lot of the fentanyl precursors are coming in through Canadian ports and none of it's being checked.

1:59:14But so far it seems like that incentive is not there, that manpower still isn't there. There's this lack of communication between our law enforcement agencies and bodies from federal to provincial levels. And actually a source of mine over there told me that there have been some certain major drug busts coming through the ports kilos of meth and they are not releasing that to the public they're not even putting out press releases because they don't they don't want that added pressure uh so that's already bad you know the lack of transparency downplaying the problem so i don't think canada would get into it not to mention canada is literally extraditing uh people involved in drug cases that happened on their land but because it's, you know, DEA helped investigate, these people are going to the US, they're being extradited to the US for court hearings.

2:00:18So it's already setting this precedent that if they can take the most hands-off approach of it, that they will, which it is what it is. I think in Europe, Spain has a major problem with cartel infiltration, and massive amounts of drugs coming in through Spain and then also being distributed throughout other European countries directly from Spain and even certain individuals who are directly linked to criminal organizations, even in Mexico, cartels that seek refuge in Spain. So I think, yeah, there's quite a few countries who, you know, perhaps they don't see it as a problem or they don't want to.

2:01:06But when you're doing this work and you're so dialed in and digging into all of it, you see how it's all connected and how it can't just be one country taking the initiative for any of these operations to be dismantled in any way. Because it's so widespread and transnational. It has to be this collective effort. Interesting. Is there anything I haven't asked you yet that I should be asking? I don't know. We covered a lot. We covered a lot. We could just yap here. We did. We covered a lot. A lot of different scenarios. A lot of potential ways to intervene. It was an awesome interview. Thanks for having me.

2:01:53It's really nice to speak to you. Thanks for coming back. We'll have you again. Where are you heading next? Anywhere in particular? Yeah, I don't want to say, though. I'm going on assignment, but I never say it in advance. You going to get into anything non-cartel? That'll come, for sure. We talked about this. Yeah, it will come. But right now, I'm just doing, you know, the stories that matter there, the cartel stuff. Boots on the ground. Right on. Well, I'll be excited to have you back in another year or so. Great. I'm here. Katarina, be safe. Thank you. Best of luck. Thank you. Thank you.

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