AD | Managing A Work-Life Balance, A New Make-Up Launch & Beating Burnout | SheerLuxe Conversations

0:00Charlotte Collins:Welcome to the Sheer Likes podcast with me, Charlotte Collins. Today is a bit of a special one. We are working in partnership with a brand that is so close to all of our hearts. It's Clarence and I've got two very special guests here to talk about a very good product. And this product is a very hardworking product. And so who better to bring in than two very hardworking ladies, the lovely Billie Bhatia. And Melissa, you've not done a podcast with us before. No, never. But you are the founder of Atelier 95. Yep, correct. People will recognize your blazer because... The blue tab. Well, the blue tab, but also Satna and I wear it.

0:32Charlotte Collins:Like, I was going to say on alternating days, but actually quite frequently on the same day. I love that. And you've also got a three-month-old baby.

0:38Melissa Bell:I have baby boy. So who better to talk about multitasking,

0:42Charlotte Collins:being multifaceted than the two of you? Perfect. Thank you so much for having us. What a lovely intro. You're welcome. Don't expect that next time. It's only because of Clarence. If you like what you hear today or you're watching, then please do give us a subscribe. It really does help us out.

1:05Charlotte Collins:This is all about the Double Serum Foundation, which we're going to talk about later because we all have lots of good thoughts, you in particular. But before we get into the nitty gritty, we've got to talk about what we're wearing.

1:17Melissa Bell:Billy. I want to know what Melissa's wearing. Oh, okay. What's up with Melissa? Okay. What are you wearing? So I'm wearing an Atelier 95 blazer. There you are. Some Zara barrel leg jeans and actually a really structured shoulder pad top from ASOS. Nice. Obviously,

1:30Charlotte Collins:we need to know about all the accessories. Oh, yeah, sorry.

1:32Melissa Bell:My hat is Coz, new in, and my boots are Mango. And the earrings? ASOS.

1:38Charlotte Collins:They must be light because they are big old. They're not realising you have them. They're very, very light ones. Yeah, they're really nice. I love the hat. Just thought I'd have a bit of shazass. Billy, I'm in an H &M cardigan. It's done. My favourite ASOS Arrange Bower Leg jeans, June boots. ASOS Arrange really coming through.

1:54Melissa Bell:I'm loving ASOS Arrange. It's so good. It's so good. So good.

1:57Charlotte Collins:So, so good. range yeah it's the best i'm also wearing a really old actually cos jumper and my boots are kate

2:04Melissa Bell:boots could spot them anywhere love them there we go i just want to start by talking about being

2:08Charlotte Collins:multifaceted multitasking we talk a lot about women doing it all yeah what does that look like in your

2:16Melissa Bell:lives right now melissa i feel like yours is yours is pretty obvious you probably feel like you're yeah absolutely I mean look having a baby is hard but you choose your hard right so having a baby having my own business um you kind of choose and pick your battles each day so multitasking currently looks like changing a nappy whilst also trying to watch my favorite program whilst also trying to air wrap my hair or doing skincare that was kind of non-existent for the first eight weeks um I think anything is just a change on an adjustment that you just have to get used to so multitasking what it was prior to having Reid was such as meetings making my lunch and showing I went to the gym that kind of takes a bit of a seat whilst you're being the mum and the best mum you can be whilst also still maintaining a business and business relationship you sent me a

3:04Charlotte Collins:message in October and I knew you were due at some point in October and we were like messaging about a coat yeah and I was like sorry but have you had your baby yet and you were like yeah yeah like three days ago I was like why are we speaking stop talking to me about a coat like my partner was

3:17Melissa Bell:like you've actually taken a business call three days after giving birth i was like yeah because i'm not the type of person to sit in bed yeah like i want to be up i want to be active as much as i can be and crack on like the world doesn't stop just because we have a baby my personal choice that was like it's not like oh i'm you know signing off like a 10 million pound investment while changing a nappy like it was no for so many women who don't feel like they're multitasking enough it's because you can't the bandwidth is so broad and we're only given like the extreme versions of that whereas like actually that's so much more accessible digestible realistic that you're like multitasking in your life looks like yeah something that other people could achieve as opposed to like thinking just being a businesswoman and a mom is like the biggest decisions ever all the time yeah absolutely you can't you cannot have it all you can't have it all but I'm a firm believer you can have it all at different times so you can't I can't be the best businesswoman I can be because I'm trying to be the best mummy that I can be and I also can't be the best mummy I can be with being the best businesswoman they kind of have to both coincide with each other and it's kind of figuring that out along the journey when the journey is brand new

4:23Charlotte Collins:do you think that that is like months at a time or hours at a time like how does you know is it that in any one day you choose to be one or the other or is it kind of a bit more long term than

4:33Melissa Bell:that I'd say any one day like look if he's had a great night's sleep I probably feel like I can take on the world but if he's not had a great night's sleep then I will just be staying in my pajamas and the skincare might have to fall by the wayside because ultimately I want to be the best mom in that moment whereas on other days if he's slept fantastic I'm ready to take on the world so I kind of just goes day to day week to week month to month like I say I don't believe you can have it all at once but I do believe you can have it all at different parts and times in your life. Billie it's very inspiring.

4:59Melissa Bell:I know thank you. Where are you right now with having it all doing it all I think I'm like a bit self-deprecating in the multitasking arena and I think we all fall into this habit as women of being like oh but you know I do a little bit of this and a little bit of that and I just had a meeting this morning where I had to be very prescriptive about what I do and I kind of came out of it and thought I actually do do a lot of stuff like I do broadcasting I do writing I work with brands I create content I try and keep on top

5:26Charlotte Collins:of my fitness I try and like eat well and get my steps and do things and even those smaller things like eating well and getting your steps and taking a bit of time for yourself in a day it doesn't feel like a job but you do have to treat it like one so that you give it the same responsibility you have to schedule it in our world right totally um and so actually today i feel like i am a multitasker you go perfect you know that aligned since you're coming yeah i think the pressure conversation is so interesting because i suffered from quite bad burnout about over a year ago just over a year ago because I was trying to do it all and I was feeling so guilty that I couldn't do it all or that I or that I wasn't kind of coping by trying to do it all that that was almost what caused the burnout more than trying to do everything it was the it was this sort of beating myself up that I wasn't finding it all super easy like it's such a it's

6:16Melissa Bell:such a female thing I was gonna say I don't think men feel like that in any way shape or form I definitely think it is women I think we do it to ourselves as well we're always wanting to better ourselves right so with that we feel like we have to do so much more but I think probably for me since being a mom is realizing you can slow down sometimes like it's better to be a bit slower and move at a slower pace and do everything at 100 % than try and do everything and give it 25 % I mean I'm a people pleaser I'd say yes to everything but since being a mom actually like no it doesn't really align with me I don't have time for that my time is better spent here rather than there I think we just kind of just sometimes have to re-evaluate what our priorities are and kind of

6:54Charlotte Collins:do that instead can I tell you the biggest thing that made a massive difference to me was questioning the word should like I should be able to do this I should be fine with this there's such a kind of um it's almost like built into us from day dot that we should be able to you know cope with things in a certain way or do have it or do it all and especially those of us who kind of you know grew up in the 80s 90s yeah you know it's it we were taught that you should be able to just handle doing everything right it's not possible it's not it isn't it's unrealistic and the biggest learning similar to you I experienced like about a burnout a few years ago and what I realized I wasn't doing was asking for any help I was just expecting myself to be able to deliver 100 % on every every single thing and I really learned into that in the last year where I'm like you know what actually it is not I can't put my time into this project right now but I can offset that by passing that onto somebody else and just like relinquishing some control and saying that person has got my back they can do this actually my mum can help me with this or my friend can help me with this or my business partner can take on this while I take on this you're kind of then vibrating at this like ridiculous frequency of trying to do it all yeah and believing that it's it's a burden to ask yeah but it it isn't like those people want to help or they're employed to help yeah and it's kind of figuring out like right what needs to be delegated out yeah and what is my strength and what can i focus on yeah only do what only you can do that's my favorite i know it's good i thought what you're talking about is like distribution of energy right how you know where to put your time and energy melissa how do you with all this on your plate how do you decide in any one day what's going to get

8:39Melissa Bell:your energy at that point again i think it really goes back to i mean it's it's just the where i am in my life right now it depends on how my night sleep has been if i've been up at four or five times in the night my energy probably is quite low the next day so it's kind of leaning on my business partner like you just mentioned billy she's incredible so she took such a weight off my shoulders and being like okay today last night wasn't a good night it helps that with friends we've got that good working relationship do you mind taking this on i can take this on it's kind of a stay-at-home job i can be on my laptop when he's down for an hour do you mind sharing the loan absolutely i think having that network around you of support really allows you to kind of shift that energy and move it to what kind of suits you in that moment.

9:18Billy, how do you decide

9:20Charlotte Collins:in any given day what's going to get your energy? I think I like approach the day a bit more selfishly than I have done previously and not in like a malicious me, me, me way. But if I don't get outside the house and walk, I'm just not happy. So I just have to like push everything else down and make that my priority and then at least i know i have one win in the day something for yourself and it's 20 minutes it doesn't have to be like a two hour long hike like 20 minutes out the door and then i i just like the you know i just want to tick box yeah one thing be like all right walk done yeah you've achieved something i just would like a reward system i'm like a way lazier version i'm like did i watch another episode of heated rivalry yes i did it's done small wins um i want to talk about confidence in this context because i think so much of what we're describing is something that perhaps if we were all having this conversation in our 20s wouldn't necessarily apply it's something that comes with age so kind of how has your confidence evolved melissa you obviously were kind of thrown into it and by having a baby right but but but how has your confidence evolved so that you are kind of you i don't want to use the word again but have the confidence to make those decisions about where your time and energy is going

10:35Melissa Bell:obviously I think in my 20s I was I was such a people pleaser like I wanted everyone to kind of understand me like me I didn't want to say no to anything or anyone for that matter so I think confidence then was like okay if I'm doing everything then I'm confident in myself because I'm actually achieving that and I'm ticking this off and I'm ticking that I'm rushing I think now it's more like slow my pace really enjoy the things that I'm doing and with that comes confidence skill set grows friendship grows people who you meet provide you with something different than what you did in your 20s so for me I just think it's actually taking a step back kind of what you said being a bit more selfish saying no to things that didn't make me grow or any of my values for that matter um and I'd like to say I think that does just come with age I'm not as much of a people pleaser anymore whatsoever kind of stand on my own two feet you go go Billy I think um I I think there was a self-assuredness in your thirties, but I definitely didn't feel in my twenties.

11:35Melissa Bell:We just turned 30 and then all of a sudden it's like, no, actually I'm not gonna do that. Well, mine didn't happen when I turned 30.

11:40Charlotte Collins:Mine took a bit longer than that. Did it? A couple of years, yeah. 33 plus I'd say, yeah. I agree. I feel like I'm only kind of just stepping into it. Me too. And I'm 35 now. In the last year, I would say I feel more like settled in myself and what I have to offer as a person. yeah and I know that everyone like everyone hops on about doing the work don't they and like what

12:02Melissa Bell:is this work business but we all do it though right because I really feel like I've done the work and now I really know so I go on it looks so different for for everybody but I kind of had to think like what am I doing this for who am I doing this for how does this serve me am I being a good person and I feel in a place now where I feel net positive about all of those things and so there's a calm that comes with that don't get me wrong there's still like a huge room for improvement but base level foundation I'm like content in what I have to offer as a person beyond business beyond work beyond anything like Billy as a human being I'm like we're good I think you're a pretty decent person like this is all like building blocks from here on in and I think that allows a level of like self-assuredness and confidence that it will be okay I think in your

12:53Charlotte Collins:20s you don't sit around and think about your values in the same way and like everything you're describing is is about your value system right and the things that you care about and you prioritize and i don't know in your 20s you're just busy i don't know like snodding boys and yeah exactly and crying at work yeah i think that that is it's when you get to that point you maybe you get to a point in your career where you're like okay i can and by career i mean because that's the kind of relentless hustle of everyday life you get to the point where you're like okay i'm in a i'm in a good place now so maybe i can stop look around a little bit poke my head above the parapet and assess who

13:29Melissa Bell:i am as a person yeah and i think you meet new friends that align with your values everybody that you had in your 20s you carry through to your 30s right like and because your values change your network changes because you want to meet people with that align with your values yeah i agree and then that always helps build up each other's confidence because you're creating your own new

13:46Charlotte Collins:little network of people i think that's so true i remember saying to my husband the other day that when I was a teenager I remember hanging I had really good group of girlfriends at school and I remember the idea of hanging out with somebody who didn't go to my school was really daunting because I was like what would I talk to them about like my not because I spoke about school all the time yeah no it's so true that was your world yeah that was all you had to talk about and I love now that like I can just become friends with anyone even if we don't go to the same school

14:08Melissa Bell:yeah no but it's so true it was so like these are my school friends yeah that's it like it's us yeah we didn't interact with any other girls from different schools it was literally just our one school so yeah I completely speak to other people yeah 100 % Billy all the experience that we're

14:23Charlotte Collins:talking about how do you feel that over the course of I don't know 15 years or however long it is that you've been working how has that experience made you more or how has it changed you in in your working world you know Melissa's talking about not being a people pleaser for you what what is that experience given you I think you have to be malleable to change I don't think you can just stick in one thing because the world changed so quickly like look at what publishing looked like before COVID and look at what publishing looks like now like it moves and change so quickly and I think you just have to trust that you've put down the groundwork to lean on people in the right way to make those decisions and like I said like ask ask for help ask for guidance have conversations but equally like be open to change in yourself to make sure that you're progressing in a way where you can be confident in your decision making yeah I think what you just said

15:14Melissa Bell:like learning to pivot is such a key point because like you say things change and things change quite quickly and if you're not willing to adapt and pivot you kind of get lost or left behind so I think learning that and being kind of rest assured it's okay to change change isn't scary totally change is actually a learning something new and I think as soon as you get your head set around change isn't always negative like people saying oh my god you've changed well yeah I've actually been doing the work on myself like you previously mentioned and setting them foundations for myself to instill that new confidence so I think being able to pivot is key and also be unafraid to fail at something because not everything will be a win not everything will be a success not be a lesson exactly how you anticipated the outcome to be sometimes it'll be a total flop sometimes it will teach you something and I think you have to sort of like be okay with

16:02Charlotte Collins:losing as much as you're wanting to win yeah I agree I think being self-employed forces you into that more than if you're in the safety full-time job like for both of you you kind of you have to you're exposing yourself to the risks the failures in a way a lot more than you are when as I say you are protected by yeah I'm still over here shadow in the shadow of my job protected over here I also

16:26Melissa Bell:do say that for implied people though because implied people are only a stone for a way of losing their job yes there's more security there but I mean if you was you wouldn't be what someone was to be let go of in a job you never know like the security there is still is still the same as what a self-employed person would feel so tomorrow's not guaranteed right it's true i don't want

16:44Charlotte Collins:to go messing up anytime you're right you're right the whole concept we're talking about today is multitasking and multitasking skincare is the dream it's what we're all obsessed with right now i want to know about habit stacking from you guys because there's a lot of skincare steps in the old routines how are you how are you making that easier how are you making multitasking work for you really okay this is my biggest top tip and this is something I fail at probably every day I'm going to listen to this because I need all the top beauty I underestimate how long things take all the time and that just makes me late and makes me stressed so actually I've really been trying in the last few weeks to keep the wake-up time to exactly the same I appreciate that is way more difficult for you but like I'm allowing myself a little bit more time to make the habits feel less like hard work and more like a an act of enjoyment and part of my day because i would think that i could get out the house in an hour from a hair wash hair dry skin makeup outfit not look abominable and like be on time yeah and actually i my time management is appalling like i would i say that's an hour and 15 that because i used to have the same and like those 15 extra minutes in bed do they're not going to do anything because you know you've got to get out yeah and this is this is what I've tried to being I've been leaning into more and actually that has made like the skincare routine in the morning so much more pleasurable because one I can actually like see the skin get better instead of just like rush it and bounce out the door and two you kind of like fit in other things around it so you do a little bit of skincare you go and make your breakfast you do the next bit of skincare you put your pants on I'm like, I like to like - I don't want to know what you're wearing before that.

18:29Dramas and shower, whatever. You know, I think making it like less of a, okay, and now I must do my 12 steps, skincare routine and more. Okay, now I'm going to start my day in an enjoyable way.

18:42Charlotte Collins:Don't you think, especially as people who don't have children, I think about this a lot. Like it's really easy to do exactly what you just said and kind of cram everything in. And I'm like, I don't actually have to live like this because I'm not on anyone else's time. So if I want to allow myself two hours to get ready in the morning, I don't, but I can. And so actually, yeah, like why would I not kind of make the most of this when all my friends are busy getting school run ready? Yeah, no, absolutely. Have you seen that trend where it's like, I remember I have free will? Yeah. That's what it is.