Chrissie Rucker On Entrepreneurship, Christmas Décor & Building The White Company | SheerLuxe Conversations

0:00Hello and welcome to this Sherlucks Success Stories podcast. I'm Georgie Coleridge Cole, founder and CEO of Sherlucks and today I am joined by Chrissie Rucker, founder of The White Company and one of this country's most inspiring entrepreneurs. And today we will be talking about the brand's beginnings, the enduring appeal of white and how to make this Christmas and the everyday feel beautiful and effortless.

0:35Chrissie, welcome. Hi Georgie. I'm so privileged to be here. I'm also staggered that you are and I meant what I said. I struggle to know who has achieved what you have for 30 years. I said the other day at an event I interviewed you at to celebrate your 30 years that honestly when I started Sherlock's if I'd written down the five women that inspired me the most you were on that list and you still are and that is the most incredible. Thank you. Before we get going I am going to ditch the coat but I just we need to give a moment to the coat because you hosted a lovely event at your beautiful house that we're in now.

1:25The press. Yes, for our 30th birthday. Talent. And you had a rail set up next door and everyone was going absolutely nuts. Yeah, that's the coat. Even my daughters love that coat. Unfortunately, it's sold out. So we're going to have to try and get some more. You've got to get some more. It is so good. So I'm going to really, really sadly lose the coat, but I felt like I had to start with it on because I'm so good. Anyway, give you one second. The coat's gone. We always start a show. Let's podcast over what our guests are wearing. I hope it's pretty obvious. I'm a huge fan of this jumper. Is this a new collection?

2:05Yes. Yes. You're looking great in your loungewear. Oh, I am too. So comfy. I've dressed it up with some boots and I sort of love that you can take something a bit casual and wear it loads of different ways. So yeah, this is, this is a nice fantastic. It looks great as well. Definitely one of my favorite pieces. It's a really nice boxy top. And actually you've really gone on a journey with women's wear, haven't you? Yes, we've got a fantastic new director. She's amazing. Yeah, completely transformed the range, really elevated it, really improved the quality. I'm so excited and we've got some fantastic new collections in the pipeline.

2:42And the excitement here at your party was palpable. There were influencers, press of all different sort of ages and stages. And it was just universal, but everybody was going mad for this sort of new iteration of white company women's wear. Anyway, so the jumper is... It's one of the Autumn Collection. It's just this really lovely boot clean. It's got a little bit of alpaca in it. It's lovely. And it's not itchy. Not itchy, really soft. Yeah, I love it. really warm, really cosy. Love it. Scott Cold. And then these are fantastic new Barrel Leg jeans, which have sold brilliantly. You're living in these, aren't you?

3:22Yes, I love these jeans, and they come in lots of different colours, and they're fantastic. And can we just take a moment for the fact you've cut all your hair off? I know, I know. This is, I'm not quite used to it yet, so. I love it. If I fiddle with it a lot, I apologise. Well, I dream of having hair that short. Unfortunately, I've got really wavy hair, it's really it's quite tricky anyway Chrissie sorry we can sit and chitchat for hours but we've got lots to get through I mean 30 years it's just it's incredible to still be in the position that you are and still so loved I mean you're part of this country's DNA I mean we'd be lost without you but can you take us back to the beginning and how it all started I think lots of people know but for anyone that doesn't they should know what inspired you to start the business 30 years ago I was a journalist and I was working at Halverson Queen and Nick who's now my husband he was a young businessman he just started his business he saw Charles Turret shirts I was just incredibly inspired watching him start his business and actually loving going into work every day but basically the long and short of it was he bought his first home and he was very busy he was working incredibly hard and he just said can you just can you just help me get the basics I was a stylist I was working on a magazine I was used to doing shoots and I just thought god this is gonna be so easy yeah and off I went and complete disaster I was totally overwhelmed by colour and pattern I came home it was just a disaster I didn't buy anything I think I loved is that you said that it was either really cheap crap or really expensive and there was nothing in between which yeah so was part of the opportunity wasn't it first thing was is this sort of this kind of barrage of colour and pattern and none of it just felt right so then i came home and sort of with my magazine hat on or i just you know i love that piece where you're if you're doing a shoot and you look through the lens of the camera you often look through the lens of the camera and a picture becomes so much better if you take things out rather than add more in.

5:31So I just thought, you know, I'm going to keep it simple. I'm just going to buy the basics in white. I'm going to buy white sheets, white towels, white bathrobes. And so I went back out to do that the next day. And that's when I discovered that basically there was this really big gap. So at one end of the scale, you had designer, fantastic quality, very expensive. And then we had high street, which was much, much more affordable, but poor quality. We had breakfast with Nick's sister one morning and she'd just done exactly the same thing. And we sat there having coffee. We started talking about, wouldn't it be great if it was this company that just sold white things?

6:08That's how it started. It's amazing. What I love is it's sort of come full circle and trends come and go. Shillux is 18 and in the lifespan of Shillux, we've seen more, as more, as more, as more. but there is just this enduring appeal for white that always works and there's actually never been more of a moment I feel like your 30 years is sort of at the perfect time isn't it because it's never been more you know with all the noise and the clutter of life it's just just sitting here is so calm I mean I'd never want to leave it's really it's really amazing that 30 years on you have remained so true to that mission and evolved range, but that DNA hasn't changed.

6:56I mean, when you start to do your first home, what I realised very quickly is it's expensive. So you don't want to make mistakes. And for me, I think of white being a little bit like the perfect black dress in the wardrobe. White in the home is, it's always stylish. It's calm. It's calm. It's never going to let you down. Yeah. And it doesn't date. And you can build on it. You can do it bit by bit, can't you? I think it's really interesting looking around and seeing your accessories and they probably, I know that's quite a big bit of your business now as well, but you can layer it, can't you? Over time, there isn't that pressure to have the look all on day one.

7:38What we've done here is we painted the house one colour the whole way through. We painted the skirting boards, the ceilings, everything is one colour. Which by the way is the best interiors hack ever. I was told that years ago about how calm it was and it just sort of carries through the house, isn't it? So I love that you say that. It builds the most fantastic, calm canvas and then you can just build on that and you can layer in your artwork, layer in your texture. And other colours, aren't you? I mean, yes, you're the white company. You're not just white, though. There's ivories, there's oatmeal, right?

8:18It's a white palette. Yes. Yes. I think over the years we slightly cheated. We definitely see white as not being just one colour. We have hundreds of different white names, you know, from ivory to chalk to bone to alabaster and lots and lots of lovely layers of neutrals. Neutrals are gorgeous layered in. Can we just talk about the fact that what you've built is so phenomenal? How many stores do you have? By the end of the year, we'll have over 80. I mean, think back to you at 24 when you launched this business. It says here, did you ever imagine? What a stupid question. Of course you didn't. No one does.

9:03But, wow. I mean, that is the achievement and you're growing and you're building for the next 30 years. You're more involved in the business than ever, I believe. Working harder than ever. when you think back to you at 24, can you believe it? The wonderful thing was actually is that, you know, Nick was there and he was actually that person who kept saying to me, you can do this. And I often wonder if he hadn't been saying that, whether I would have had the confidence to start. But he gave me the strength to have a go. And I just thought, you know what, I'll give myself a year and if it doesn't work out, I'm 24, I'll get another job.

9:49He obviously thought it was a good idea, though. I think he loved the idea and I'm very happy to be sitting here 30 years later. Having that person rooting for you is so important, isn't it? Having great mentors as you go on your journey is absolutely essential. And would you say he's been a mentor? Yeah, he's been the most fantastic mentor. And as you go on the journey, there are lots of people who come in and out of your life, members of the team. You know, I had the most wonderful chairman for 15 years. I mean, he was such a mentor to me. And how did you find him? Somebody said to me once, have you met Tony Campbell?

10:26He'd be the most amazing chairman for you, but you'll never get him. So I went to have breakfast with him. Red Rags for both. And I loved him. After breakfast, I thought we'd had the most brilliant breakfast. And he talked to me a lot about vegetables and how he doubled sales of vegetables. He used to be at ASDA. He was Archie Norman's right hand man at ASDA. We had a great breakfast and I thought it's a slam dunk. You know, he's going to say yes. That's the walls to the white company. I mean, it's a natural farm. And then he rang me up and he said, I'm really sorry, but I, you know, I actually don't do private businesses because he was always a private equity chairman.

11:00So I sulked for two weeks and then I thought, you know what, I'm just going to ring him up because I had nothing to lose. So I I sort of rang him up and said, Tony, I said, I know you're not going to come and be chairman, but if you've just got a cup of that, will you come? Can't just come walk around the store with me and take a look at it and tell me what you think. And he said, yes. And so he came and then he stayed for 15 years. Love it. Yeah. Love it. You talk about quite luxury a lot. Yes. You talked about that, I feel, long before it became this buzzword. We all know what it means, but talk to us about the fact that it's always been at the heart of everything you do and I mean just sitting here in your beautiful home it sort of screams quite luxury you yourself are sort of so warm and so kind and and clearly steely but I'd say it's in you it's in your home it's in your business I studied couture I left I left school when I was 16 and I studied couture so I learnt to...

12:05Did you? Yes. Why did you leave school when you were 16? School and I didn't really click, I don't think. I'm dyslexic and so not very academic. But I left school at 16 because I wasn't thriving at school and I came to London and I went and studied couture. That's where I really thought, yes, now I think I'm finding myself. Where did you study couture? So in London at a tiny little college and I learned to pattern cut and tailor and you learn that it is all about the detail. The detail of the calf, the cut, how it sits, the collar, how it sits, the fabric, how it drapes, how it falls. You know, detail really matters and that detail really makes or breaks an item.

12:58that taught me so much and whenever I look at product I look at it and I always think yes that's lovely but how can we how can we push that one step further how can we make it even even lovelier that's fascinating I didn't know that you you did that and I can really see I know your devil is in the detail can you talk to me about how you sort of applied that learning to the white company, how you used it to evolve this quiet luxury and sort of bring that training together with this brand that you've created. What the training gave me was this phenomenal attention to detail. Quiet luxury has been at the heart of the brand from the day we started and the thing I love about quiet luxury is it always stays relevant, it doesn't date.

13:52They're pieces that you will use and love for many, many years to come. I think for us it has never been about fast or fashion or disposable. It's about really considered design. You were really ahead of your time because 30 years ago we weren't as conscious consumers as we are today. Sustainability wasn't on the tip of everyone's tongue. You were really ahead of your time in that sense weren't you? About not replacing everything and not being fast, being slow. It's the collection that you build. Yes. Do you know what I mean? I think you've stopped to think about that. You were way ahead of it.

14:28You were way ahead of everybody else. When I look back to my Condé Nast days, there were the editors and then there were the assistants. And, you know, the editors were dressed in head to tail beautifully in Chanel or Burberry. But the assistants had to be clever about what they wore. we didn't earn very much and you learn to sort of have beautiful simple foundation pieces and then it's better to buy one good piece every year than lots of disposable pieces that just you know you referenced your time in magazines for anyone listening that doesn't know so you left couture school and did you go straight into magazines from there my first year of i went to work for a wedding dress designer.

15:14Did you? Yes. Which one? And for Anna-Liza Sharp and Philippa Lepley, who's very still going strong today, was working for her as well and then went on to start her own brand. But anyway, she suggested that perhaps I wasn't going to be a very famous fashion designer and why don't I go and work for a magazine? So that's how it started. And I went to Condé Nast and I spent seven years on different magazines. I started as a receptionist, but it was actually the best job in the world. It was the dream job, wasn't it? It really was, yeah. Yeah, it was fantastic. And I love that thing of just seeing everybody step out of the lift and seeing what they were wearing, which, yeah, looking back on that, I suppose maybe that had quite an influence.

15:59Which titles were you on? GQ was my first job, actually. GQ was a fashion assistant, then I went to Brides, then I did House and Garden. I worked for Vogue for a short time for the amazing Anna Harvey. And then I ended up at Harbison Queen. So you left the magazine world. That's when you started the White Company. Yes. Yeah. So, I mean, that's a pretty awesome roster of magazines that you worked on. You clearly work with some of the best stylists, interior designers in the industry. What did you learn from them that you then went on to apply to the White Company? I look back on my days in magazines as, you know, just being the most phenomenal training, actually.

16:41I feel so, so lucky to have gone through that training because, first of all, it teaches you about brand because each title has its own unique handwriting. Each title has to have a consistent look and feel and a consistent tone of voice. As I've gone on the journey through the white company, you know, I've been lucky enough to work with some brilliant interior designers, some brilliant stylists. And I just loved working with them. I loved working with them. I loved learning from them. And what they taught me is there's some really simple tips and tricks that are really easy to replicate. so very much at the heart of what we do now is we love to inspire because you know what I discovered when I was doing Nick's first flat was you know I am not a natural stylist but I really wanted to learn how to do it and then I think when we're developing ranges we think really hard about how do we make the ranges work beautifully and effortlessly together and that I have honestly he's still got pieces for my wedding list now in my house from the white company and that's what is so clever and i think it's amazing you go to these hotels and you see this incredible shelf styling where you go to these very arty people with and you think god how could i ever create that you really sort of you've democratized good style haven't you and and the other thing that's amazing and i'm getting slightly off topic here is is i think your pricing is is so wonderful and so refreshing and you know we talked about quiet luxury but you really make it achievable you make you make I know luxury is a very overused word but but you really do make it feel possible for everybody and not daunting and and as a customer I feel those collections work together and that's that's better for everybody Getting the price right for every item was was a big part of what I wanted to deliver with the company and the moment I knew I could do it was when I found my first factories because I found the factories that were supplying the designer brands that I loved and then I realized that I we could buy directly from the factories supply directly to the customer for a much lower price but it yet it was exactly the same quality I couldn't be more genuine when I say I think it's incredible how you go into a white gomping stall and you can buy a candle for X or you can buy a beautiful throw for a lot more or a yummy cashmere set or shearling coat and the level of service is the same it does feel luxurious it does feel special I think it's really incredible that you have the number of stores that you have you've maintained this price point and I just don't think that should be underestimated for a second.

19:47Customer service really really matters. I mean it really matters. I just, there's nothing more depressing I think than going into a store just being left to wander around it and then doing a self-service checkout. I remember having an awful pretty woman moment right back at the beginning. Some rather snooty sales assistants sort of sort of waving me off to the cheaper department, you know making me feel that I couldn't you know I shouldn't shouldn't have been in that department. I was a scruffy student. But I hope you've gone back there and said huge mistake. Great customer service is, I mean, it's absolutely essential.

20:21It's really amazing. And even at Christmas, when it's easy, can we talk about Christmas? Because it's a huge part of your business. It's a huge part of Christmas. You can imagine Christmas without the white company. I mean, it's just not really worth thinking about it. How many orders do you dispatch a day in your Christmas period, roughly? Currently, we will switch from shipping anywhere between 2 ,000, 3 ,000, 5 ,000, 8 ,000 orders a day. And then when Christmas comes, we switch to shipping up to 25 ,000 orders a day. And we have to look after 70 stores. Christmas is such a great time of year, isn't it?

21:00I mean, it is. I love it. I think it's one of the most magical times of year. But, you know, it's also, it's a challenge. And I think if you're working and you're busy as well, just getting ready for Christmas, because we all want Christmas to be as gorgeous and as perfect as we can manage. So, I mean, how do I tackle it? Yeah, how do you? And someone in my office said, can you please just ask her how she does Christmas? I would like to know how Chrissy Rucka does Christmas. How do you tackle it? I have a friend who once said to me, just get all your Christmas presents done by the end of November.

21:40And I remember hearing that thinking, crikey, you know, and then I did it and it changed everything. We have a big family and so I have to be really, really organised. I have a spreadsheet. Can we please have your other golden rules for creating a home that feels really Christmassy and magical kind of welcoming and you must love it when all your children are here and everyone's together and it's the best feeling. What are your golden rules are getting it right? Yeah well I think children always know that Christmas is coming when I start to light a winter candle. I think that's sort of there's nothing lovelier than winter scents at Christmas time so whether it's fir tree or winter or myrrh or clement time and juniper or winter definitely yeah I mean that's Of the year is winter number one.

22:32Yes, yeah. I used to love mixing aromatherapy ores and I was just playing about with an oil burner and I just did drops of cinnamon, clove and orange. And that was the idea I came from. I do love your myrrh as well, I have to say. Yes, myrrh is kind of really rich and warming. And actually we've got fantastic new Tonka bean scent this Christmas, which is really, I'm really excited about that. Tonka is just such a good note, isn't it? But I think it's start, I mean, I love this idea of sort of, you know, building up to Christmas and doing it in there. So my, the way I go, do it, is I start with a foundation of greenery.

23:11So I kind of get the greenery baseline in, which will be, you know, lovely garlands across fireplaces, across surfaces. I weave them in and out of tabletops and then I put some lovely storm lanterns and candles. So the foundation for me is always greenery and fairy lights. And then I just start to build on that. And when do you start your greenery? I start putting the greenery out at the end of November. Christmas tree comes much later. I used to be quite a snob about faux. I now love both together. Yes. I think you will have given a lot of people to be able to breathe a sigh of relief that Chrissy Rockett says.

23:52Definitely use both. A combination of the two. Then I think it's great to pick a theme. We actually end up, I mean, sometimes we're 26 people for Christmas. So I then end up doing meals in slightly different places. And I do end up doing a couple of different trees. So I'll pick a theme for the tree in the hall. And I'll pick a theme for the tree that goes in the pool house. And so I like to keep it really simple. You know, one or two tones. I'm never going to be your multicoloured girl. No, no, I'd be upset if you said anything else. So this year I'm going to go for glass and we've got these really gorgeous warm bronze, big glass baubles coming.

24:38But that's a lovely thing about your decorations as well, is that they just, they build, don't they? Yes. You keep adding to them. Yes. I've always collected vintage decorations and so every year when Christmas comes around we get the box of vintage ones out and we sort of think okay what can we recreate this Christmas. Candles obviously everywhere. Candles everywhere. Lighting is so important. When people arrive for Christmas at my house you know we will have wreaths on the door. I also use wreaths in the hallway and I'll put them on a table and fill them up with candles and put a big storm lantern over them.

25:11Or you can hang them on a wall if you've only moved into a house recently and you've got a few empty spaces. Weeds are beautiful hung on a wall too. And then I put candles in the windows, candles everywhere and I do a combination of scented and unscented. Low lighting, fire slip. You're aiming for cosy and comfortable and relaxed. And I've got here Christmas and jazz. I mean Chrissie, jazz just hits me in the heart. and have you got a good jazz playlist you recommend? One of my daughters is a singer and I love music. I really love music. I do playlists all the time. Amazing, it's the ability to change your mood, isn't it?

25:58Completely. Completely changes, you know, it literally, it sets the tone or the atmosphere for a Christmas party. I think you're, I'm looking over at one of your team here and I'm saying, I think in your emails pre-Christmas, you should be sharing Chrissy's Christmas playlist. I think we all want them, don't we? Comment in the notes below if you want Chrissy Rucker's Christmas playlist. I do. I like that in my house with your candles lit and yeah. Sounds heaven. Yeah. Do you cook? Yes. Are you the cook? Yes. You're the designated cook? Well, actually, one of my daughters is, she was a chalet girl for a season.

26:35She's absolutely brilliant. I think that's helpful. But I think when it comes to Christmas cooking, my mum once said to me, she said, darling, it's just a chicken. It's a big chicken. Yeah. And I think the minute you start to think like that, you think, OK, it's not such a big deal. And to be together, to have fun and good music, good cocktails, playing games, having a great time together. That's the most important thing. Yeah, we love playing games, actually. What do you play? Yeah. Well, charades is always, I mean, charades is always a favourite. Beat the intro. Ah, love Beat the intro. Hat game.

27:15What's the hat game? The hat game is when you put lots of names of people and films and things that you have to have. Oh, you've got to have them out. Yeah, love. You talked about textures and throws. I mean, it is just that. For me, hungering down for a few days and life stopping, email stopping and everything. It's so important to get everyone to muck in. Don't try and do it all yourself. On my spreadsheet I will say, you know, I will know exactly who's bringing the cheese, who's doing the Christmas pudding and we share it out. Absolutely. That makes such a difference. Yeah, the cleaning up, helping with that is quite good too.

27:57Yeah, the boys are always on bar duty and washing up duty too. If you were to summarise and give, I mean, I know what you're going to say. You just said the word spreadsheets. With four children and a massive business, clearly organisation is the name of the game, right? Yeah, I actually have a Christmas present list that goes back 15 years on a spreadsheet. So I know exactly what I've given everybody every year. Wow. You talked about cocktails and that being an important part of Christmas. I'm with you. What are your tipples of choice? Christmas Eve, we will normally do mulled wine and I buy it.

28:41Do you? Yes. Where do you buy it from? I buy it from Waitrose. I love that idea of buying cheat. So I buy Waitrose's own brand and then I chop up lots of oranges and chuck in some cinnamon sticks and put it in a big... And nobody knows, it came out of the bottle. Clare I do. I've got champagne and mixers. Stepbrother's slow gin. Who's the stepbrother making slow gin? Yeah, my stepbrother makes a really, really good slow gin. And actually Christmas Day we quite often have, you could do it with Prosecco as well, anything bubbly, but a bit of slow gin with Prosecco with champagne is absolutely gorgeous.

29:22Oh, delicious. It's like a Chamball, but it's slow gin. Yeah, we'll quite often have one drink for, you know, one cocktail or one special drink, and then we'll just have a, we'll set up a small bar and I get everyone to help themselves too. I so agree, otherwise you spend your life doing different things, it's a nightmare. Any other tips for sort of making that side lovely and special? I love the idea of setting up a bar, but is there anything you're adding to that to give it the Chrissy way? Well, we'll quite often do jugs of cocktails. Yeah. So I love a spicy margarita, a white lady. It's a great cocktail and one we do at home.

30:05I've never heard that name for a while. A lot. You can do all sorts of fun things. I mean, on Instagram a couple of years ago, there was sort of all these beautiful ice cubes where you would just do cranberries and rosemary and top it up with orange juice or cranberry juice. and then if you put those Oh what? Orange juice as the ice instead of water? Yes and then you put them in a little coop like these glasses here and then you just top them up with champagne These are lovely Are these you? They look absolutely gorgeous Yes They're really lovely Oh new martini glasses Really nice Well that's actually that's my favourite of all the Vespa martini I was going to say that's a Vespa isn't it?

30:45Lethal Absolutely lethal You'd have two of those maximum or you'll be on the floor We've talked a bit about hospitality and Christmas, but I mean if anyone has got the art of hospitality down to a T. I mean I imagine people don't want to leave when they come for Christmas with you. Is it quite hard to get rid of them? We quite often have people staying for Christmas. So in their bedrooms, I put a little tree in their bedrooms. So we've got some trees which are about that sort of size and I put them on top of a chest of drawers. I love making a bedroom feel really special. So I will always do pillow mist by the bed, a lovely hot water bottle, lovely towels and lovely bath treats.

31:26Box of chocolates is always quite a good one. And a box of Alka-Seltzer is essential. When you've had a couple of those Vesper martinis, yes, I'm sure you do. When it comes to, you know, the table, laying the tables, you know, what are your tricks? Obviously, if anyone has, has it all at their disposal, it's you. But there's a lot of meals when you have people to stay. What's your philosophy? Do you lay every table up? Is everything a big meal? Yeah, I'm sure people listening will go, how does Chrissy do it? Because having a house full at Christmas is a lot of work. You said you get the boys to muck in with the washing up and you delegate what people bring.