Maro Itoje’s Leadership Secrets, The Player Most Likely To Go On 'Love Island' & England Career | The SLMan Podcast

0:00This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. This week, we've got Maro Otoji on the podcast. So as well as our normal fashion finds and what we're loving at the moment, we're going to get into the nitty gritty with Maro.

0:37We're chatting about his pre-match rituals, what an England player actually eats in a day, and some of his leadership techniques. So if you want to hear more great chat like this. For whatever reason, I decided to relax my hair. I thought relaxing my hair was cool. Oh, wow. Okay. I look back and I think this was terrible. If my son did that, I would be... Stick around.

1:02All right, welcome back to the SR Man pod. I'm your host, Harvey James. I had to ruin my name there. I was going to say. I'm your host, Harvey James, and I'm joined today by Tunde and rugby star Mauro Teje, captain of England Lions and Saracens. So what are we loving at the moment, guys? What's on your list? I'll start with mine. Go on. I randomly saw this thing on Instagram, but in China, they've got these humanoids like olympics wow okay humanoid being robots yeah yeah robots and i think you know it's like a an endeavor to try and push technology forward to see what they can do but it is just so funny like you can see the humanoids like sprinting around the side of the track and then they're like desperately trying to scrabble and then slip over and then crash into the next one i think i saw the 100 meters yeah i think if i remember correctly they beat you save boats time Is that right?

1:56Yeah, they're moving quick. Okay, that's a little bit chilling. Humanoid Olympics. Yeah, and it's so funny because they can't stop themselves. So there's like this huge like wall at the end of the 100 metre sprint and they all just pummel in at like top speed and just like obliterate and just fall apart. And they break. Yeah. What? It's almost like it's pointless. Yeah, such a waste of money. It sounds like, have you watched that robot? Yeah, ages ago. Is it like that? I don't know. In what sense? Like the way they move and like run and... Yeah. Yeah, they're a bit more like, almost like dogs.

2:25in the way that like yeah scuttling it's quite scary though because that could be like normal everyday life at some point yeah a humanoid that could outpace you that's actually terrible that is crazy that's that's gonna come yeah that event in 10 years is gonna be like the limit yeah yeah who knows it may take over do you think do you think you could beat a team of humanoid rugby players yeah rugby's too fluid yeah you just break their arm rugby's too fluid uh but in 20 years who knows maybe not quite chilling actually yeah um what's everyone else loving i guess mine is a bit more sport related well no hospitality food related oh yeah bagatelle obviously i love bagatelle their restaurant i'm sure you've been to bagatelle right restaurant in london party restaurant you know i don't know what it is oh they used to have this thing called oh it is it's a fun time it's a fun time okay so these had this thing on a sunday i can't remember if it was called midnight master sunday service but one of the two right where you'd go but it was like a real party at dinner like dancing on tables swinging napkins it was but like a lot of like footballers and sportsmen would go okay um and they are now um they've now got a box at chelsea which i find really interesting so they're now doing hospitality at chelsea so i'm like hmm i wonder how they're gonna do that yeah same vibes yeah yeah yeah quite mental but in a in a at a club yeah i've never seen a restaurant do that before i feel like that would be good yeah yeah and you what you have dinner and then it just sort of descends you're like eating and doing that at the same time it's like a bit the weight is there going crazy yeah they get involved yeah they're like standing on chairs like and um they sometimes have like like dollars that's what for dollars but like they're like a confetti machine or whatever and they're all getting involved as well so other than that Oh, you're going to ask me what I was loving.

4:09Oh, bloody hell. Sorry, straight back to me. What kind of person do you do? That's very rude of me. No, so I'm loving, I've just finished watching House of the Dragon. Oh, sick. So it's the adaptation from George RR Martin's book, part of the Game of Thrones universe. And it's quite honestly the best thing on TV. I absolutely love the show. I love the drama, the intrigue, the dragons. Generally speaking, I think it's done very well. done very well and on top of that do any of you guys watch the show? Well funnily enough that was going to be my pick Coincidentally I had an appearance yesterday On the show?

4:48No no no I was going to say I wish I wish if anyone in the show is watching I would do it for free I would happily do that but anyway I got to meet Daemon Targaryen's horse Really? And I felt I was on like a hollow turf I was like oh my it was the most beautiful horse where were you it was associated with England rugby we had an England rugby thing and it was yeah it was incredible the horses were majestic they were beautiful so chiseled yeah yeah but it was great a part of me thought you were going to say Dragon Man yeah same I was like wait a minute that's not possible and shout out to the people who were managing the horses they were cool really connected with them it is a really good show but my only problem with it was that two years ago was when the last season was out because of the quality quality yeah the quality but my bloody memory that's that's a that's a blessing it's a blessing because you have no idea what's going on by the time the new season comes out you re-watch what has gone past so what i did was when this season three came out i re-watched season one and two to make it like really fresh in my mind and each time you re-watch it because i haven't read the books yet which i will do at some point but I feel like it adds a richness and the layer to it the more you know so that's true I think there's a lot of stuff that goes over your head at first watching so you're lucky no I put it to my fiance and that was that idea was was banished too much time apparently but that is definitely the way to do it because then you properly as you say like the the story kind of like sinks into you yeah I have one hour a week in my house where I tell my wife Like, look, how so jaggers on.

6:33The other 23 hours of the day, I'll be yours. This one hour, I need to lock it. Right, what are your fashion and grooming finds this week? L 'Ontario Pesce just brought out this new moisturiser. I think it's called the Effaclar Super Molecular Face Moisturiser. I know it's a mouthful. Sounds complicated. That sounds expensive. Yeah, exactly. I don't think it's actually that expensive, you know. I think it's, I want to say, when I saw it, probably like 16, 17 pounds. I think that's all right. But it's just so good for oily skin. I get really bad oily skin and it's good for like it's got B3 in it so it's like brightening hydrating and it's just really good I love it it's good for you yeah very good for me nice well weirdly I've kind of got into I've got into Henley shirts at the moment oh yeah which you're wearing today which I don't know why I'd never worn them before I actually put one on like this weekend from Arquette and it's kind of this off-white really soft like inside so feels so like a hug when you're wearing it yeah yeah um and it's like a nice in between a shirt and a t-shirt it's slightly more formal but if you don't want to just wear a shirt yeah yeah yeah I'm like maybe this is my garment of the season what are you?

7:35I'm not sure if it's a find I guess it's two things which is probably the kind of on the other scale of what you were talking about I used to have dreads so I used to I used to have dreads that long? like up to no way so you did it before Harlan did as in Shave yeah I cut mine in 2023 was it? but anyway I say that to say the lady who used to doing my hair she was a Ghanaian lady and I bumped into her recently um and she was like oh I need to give you some I want to give you some cream and she gave me this share butter which was like she got from Ghana and it's like real natural like odorless and it's honestly the smoothest cream I've had in my whole life so it's become a staple in uh in my house so I just every day that's that's me.

8:26Full body. Full body. When do you do that? Twice a day, every day. After the shower? After the shower. What's the second time? Morning and night. Okay, fine. How long do you have to leave it to soak in? It's quick. So it doesn't feel weird when you then put clothes on? No. I guess you have to be careful if you're wearing, I don't know, if you're wearing like a silk or satin, then you have to be a little bit mindful, but I guess black skin is quite absorbent anyway, so you'll be alright. Should we get into some style questions? Sure. On the rugby front? yeah let's do it who is the best dressed rugby player of all time or players oh well i don't know of all time that's a big um i'll give you a couple of who i think i'll cover my teammates or players i've seen who i think dress well my england and saracen's colleague and teammate owen owen farrell he he dresses well he could dress consistently well and he has done for a number of years, which may or may not be surprising to a few people.

9:27I don't know. Someone I've seen who I've played against from afar, who I think dresses well, there's a South African winger called Mepimpy. Okay. What's his vibe? He has like a high fashion kind of vibe with like oversized kind of fits here and there. Generally I'm drawn to like Oversized I don't really like You know outfits that are too tight On the body that's why Most rugby players don't like that kind of fit No no most rugby players do Oh really? Yeah I guess you know All their time in the gym and stuff They want to show off their muscles They want to show off the pecs and stuff But yeah that's not really It's kind of cooler to wear bigger stuff And then because you know like you're a big lad You don't need to like show it off just like it's kind of there but like subtly is like is high fashion in rugby is all the people you know kind of are they into the designer brands yeah it varies some people are really into it yeah some people like I have a teammate Ollie Lawrence who's very much into like high fashion and designer brands why are you smiling there?

10:39because he just loves it yeah he's just very into it is he a bit like like a footballer? yeah Yeah, that kind of vibe. Then I have another guy who, I was my teammate at the Lions, but I play against him for Club of Country, Finn Russell, who's very much into that kind of vibe as well, from what I've seen. Do they have the cars to match? Well, some of them do, to be fair. Some of them, I'm sure they, I'm not sure what cars they're driving at the moment, but yeah, maybe not quite the Lambos or the Ferraris, but the Premier League. What's your most embarrassing fashion mistake? so when i was at 16 it was year 11 um end of gcse and stuff and we had like a year it was a year 11 prom okay so we all had to get like you know outfits and stuff and for whatever reason i decided to relax my hair i thought relaxing my hair was cool wow okay and it was a disaster It was really bad.

11:40I looked back at those photos and cringed the life out of myself. Was your hair long? So it wasn't even that long. So it was maybe about that big. When I relaxed, I relaxed it straight. So it then went like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was just a bad look. It was a bad look. Do you have pictures still? I do. You'll get to show us afterwards. Well, I don't know about that. But yeah, it was a bad look. Do people comment? At the time, everyone thought it was okay. Did you think it was okay? I thought it was okay at the time. Just looking back. I looked back and I think this was terrible. If my son did that, I would be terrible.

12:19So you're saying ever since then, you've never had a bad fashion moment to this day? No, that's the worst. That was the worst. Okay, fine, the worst. Yeah, that was the worst. I'm sure there's been a few. We all went through these eras. Did you have a skinny jean phase? Of course. Then there was that, you know, Kanye West 808. Oh yeah, yeah. Everyone's wearing like the cardigans and the multicolored and those glasses. And the glasses. What was that about? Very ridiculous. Silly. And I had this like American kind of FUBU kind of phase where we used to like, we used to go to America, go to New York or whatever, and we used to get these baggy jeans, but these jeans had like shoes on the side of them.

13:03So as in shoes embroidered into them. So not an actual shoe Not an actual shoe But a shoe embroidered to them So I had the lace and everything Oh Like So I was like Properly embroidered into them And you know My brother and I We used to think We are the Coolest people Yeah We used to think we are Looking back We probably weren't At the time though At the time At the time We thought we were hot Thought we were popping I feel like that happens When you go to America You're like Shit this is cool Yeah And you get into it And then you come back to England And you're like Shit it doesn't quite It was like the Nelly sort of era.

13:35I didn't do that. But I did some of that LL Cool J stuff, you know, raise it up a bit. So yeah, that was the vibe. Let's talk about Astria London a little bit. You're the first male ambassador. What's the story there? How did that come about? Yeah, so I met the founder through a mutual friend and we just got talking, not with a certain agenda or anything, but just got talking. Then we realized we had a lot of, you know, shared ground, more so on the values side of things, whether it's philanthropy, giving back, also in terms of, you know, personal expression and all that kind of thing. And then she spoke to me about Astria, spoke to me about, I guess, the diamond industry on a whole and, you know, some of the not-so-good things that have been associated with the diamond industry in the past.

14:33And what Astria is trying to be a leading member has almost helped change the culture and the vibe within the industry. And, you know, you can wear these beautiful diamonds without having all these adverse effects on people or their environment. So, yeah, we connected. I got to know some of their staff. How are they doing that, just for context? A lot of it is through comms and PR, but Astria is a lab-grown diamond company. So they don't do any mind. They produce lab-grown diamonds, and their spec is the highest spec that you can produce. So this is a lab-grown diamond designed by Astria and created by Astria.

15:20And this diamond would have had no adverse effects to the environment, would have had no people be put in um you know obscure positions as sometimes that happens not all the time but sometimes that happens with you know there's this adage blood diamonds and all that kind of thing with lab-grown diamonds that doesn't exist and yeah i guess it's what they're trying to say and what they're trying to do is you know you can you can look good you can have diamonds you can you feel great with diamonds without all the negative things that are associated recently maybe previously people would have had a negative connotation of the fact that it's not but definitely in the last like five years or so people are you know because because of all the negative things associated with real diamonds it's becoming the it's much better i heard um a good way of describing it is like when you have a baby you can have a baby and through you know intercourse or you can have a baby through IVF.

16:21If you have an IVF baby, does that make it not a real baby? Yeah, true. That's basically the way of thinking it. Like genetically, the makeup between the diamond is pretty much the same. The human eye can't tell the difference. So I think that's a helpful way of thinking about it. Yeah, so why are we messing around with the other stuff? And also the price is not the same. The price for a lab grown diamond is significantly a lot better than a real diamond. I always say to my friends, whenever they're looking to get engaged, we can go for a lab-grown diamond. You've got to get so much more value for your money for a lab-grown diamond.

16:58And Sarah Jessica Parker is a part of this company as well. She is. No way. Have you met her? I haven't yet. I haven't. The next photo shoot is you and her. Yeah, exactly. Hopefully there's been opportunities to make that happen, but hopefully we'll make that happen soon. A quick reminder, if you're enjoying this episode, please go ahead and subscribe. so that we can keep making the content that you so love. Right, should we get into it? Yes, let's do it. You are obviously the captain of Saracens England towards the Lions in 2025. You're in a pretty unique position to be able to say what makes a good leader.

17:32At the crux of it, a good leader is someone who is able to help a team, a group of individuals or an individual get to the outcome desired, whatever that outcome is. and I think everyone has their own way of leading. I think there's core principles that run throughout, such as being authentic. I think that's a huge one, such as being able to perform yourself, being able to communicate with your team, et cetera. So there's a number of core values and principles that run throughout, but I think it looks different for every person. How I lead will look different to how you lead. how you lead and you know not one is necessarily better than the other is you just have to find out what works for you yeah and that group i imagine and that group absolutely how do you deal with the moments where you're aware that you're not performing but you still have to go out and represent and still have to communicate well i think um that is the foundation of leadership okay um so if i'm in that position that is the sole thing that needs to be addressed straight away because that's the foundation foundational piece of leadership in my view because if i'm not performing if i'm not doing what i'm saying i'm going to do then everything else i do thereafter loses legitimacy um and i think that's the same whether that's in sport whether that's in business whether that's in politics you yourself have to make sure that you're you're performing so if i'm performing almost my sole attention will be do what i need to do to make sure that i get back to the level where i can lead in the appropriate fashion and if that is in playing out in real time then this is where i believe um you know any successful team any successful organization organization a tree doesn't make a forest so you need a group of people who can help you pick up the slack if you're not able to contribute in an effective way so you need to have like a leadership team that's able to do that does the like the extra responsibility and burden of maybe not burden but privilege of of leading does that extra weight can it sometimes affect your own performance because you're not 100 on your performance there's other things involved it can if you let it yeah yeah you definitely definitely can if you let it there's countless examples of people in the past who've been burnt down or weighed down through the the pressures of of leadership um so without a doubt um but again i think you just have to i think i was quite fortunate that when i became captain of all these teams i was like 29 30 so i've you know in my view I did the hard yards I had the experience I was I felt as if I was capable so I felt as if I was ready to do to do the job at hand um but if if you don't have I guess people to talk to if you're weighing have all the burden on your shoulders then without a doubt it's it's heavy what's your style are you kind of addressing things right there and then as you see them are you bringing someone aside for a one-to-one or you are you just going more for the example Yeah, so it's a mixture of all those things, to be honest.

20:50I think I'm a lead by example sort of guy first and foremost. And as I said, I think everyone has to be that first and foremost because everything else you do doesn't make sense. I try and my approach is to share the responsibility so that everyone feels involved in what's going on. If I am saying, okay, we're doing this, we're doing that, we're doing this okay you do this you do that that i just don't think it it bodes well and also i also acknowledge that you know i'm not the the beacon of all knowledge um so i don't have all the don't put yourself down not all maybe 75 but yeah so i don't have all the answers i don't have all the um you know solutions to the problems that we face so it it needs a group of us to come together and say okay yeah we're gonna fix it we're gonna solve it together um so that's how i try and try and do but but you know obviously part of the role is to help people encourage people hold some people to account drive standards do you need to be hyper aware of when people aren't aren't feeling included or aren't kind of quite on the wavelength is that that's a bit of a yeah you do you do you do um especially when it gets to the point where it's um you feel like it's having an adverse effect on the team that's difficult yeah leadership isn't easy leadership isn't easy otherwise anyone could do it yeah um but you know that's that's that's that's the role do you alter the way that you captain the three different teams because obviously you obviously have saracen's in england and the lions but you're being a captain of different players that are from other teams, right?

22:32So do you change your captaincy style depending on... Yeah, I think every team has a different context. Yeah, fine. And you have to almost adapt to the context that you're faced. And even like the Saracens team this year, the context is different to the Saracens team last year. Fine. So you always have to, I think you have to adapt. Again, I think you have core principles, but I think perhaps you dial up this and dial up that or tone down this and tone down that. So for example, with the Lions, the Lions are essentially the all-star team of the British and Irish regions. So the best of the best.

23:12So all of these guys are number one options at their club, most likely number one options in their country. So these guys are well-established, high performers. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace. And there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook.

23:52So you're basically the best player ever then. No, that's not how it works. Captain of all three And of the That's not how it works That's not how it works So with the Lions Because you're You're dealing with Such a high level group There's certain things You don't I'm not You know Certain mentality things Or certain things That you don't need to do However Like with Saracens We have a range We have some people At that level We have some internationals And we have some like Kids who just Left school So the guy who just left school I can't be as harsh or hold him to the same standard as I'm holding a British and Irish lion so you you try and you know be be reasonable with it okay then next question is as someone who's achieved so much success what do people misunderstand about being ambitious I think is the work required yeah a lot of does that um that the picture of the iceberg comes to mind whereas you just see the tip above the water but then you see all this all this thing that comes to the surface um is the the amount of work that it takes to be a high performer the amount of work it takes to get to these levels and naturally people don't see it and there's no reason why they should um but it's just significant it's not something that can just happen overnight and the amount of continual work that you need to do in order to stay at a high level for a long period of time is also significant I think I read somewhere the other day that um obviously using bulk train what nine years was nine years for nine seconds or I can't remember having it was a long time for nine seconds and I find it so interesting because people don't obviously hear or see that they just see the nine seconds thing oh wow it's done so well but I don't realize how much work has gone into into that what keeps you going in in the kind of lower moments when it when it is really difficult I think I focus on what I want to achieve um and more so than that the type of um man that i want to be um and i because i think in your low moments or in the times of difficulty that's when you truly see you know the person you are you know everyone's when things are going well everyone can be nice yeah when you're winning trophies everyone can be happy yeah but in the in the tough moments i think that's where character is formed um um and though this famous um i think it was what's the guy who did um run for us run what's his name tom hanks oh yeah oh yeah yeah yeah so i think i was watching an actor's round table and he he said this phrase that's always stuck with me they're like this too shall pass and that's in relation to the good times as well as the bad times yeah so whenever you're going whenever I've gone through a tricky moment or a tough moment in my life or a good moment of elation and joy there's always that phrase this too shall pass and it just helps me not get too high, not get too low and stay somewhere in the middle and stay present as well because it will disappear at some point.

27:02Absolutely. Pre-match any mantras or things that are going through your head or rituals that are getting you right in the zone I'm not a ritual person to be honest I try and be as ritual free as possible I try and, because I think every game has a new context to it. Every game has a new feeling to it. And I try and, like, regulate my mindset and mood to be optimal for that game. So, for example, there's certain games, for whatever reason, you're feeling a little bit low. Maybe you're feeling a little bit tired. Maybe you're carrying an injury. So you need some, like, maybe you need some music or something to get you up or, you know, get you in the, maybe you play some hip-hop or some rap or whatever.

27:42or the certain games where I'm really up there and I need to be calmed down. So then I'll play some gospel to try and like, you know, cool me down a bit. So yeah, I don't like to... Music's kind of the dial. Yeah, music helps with that. Sometimes I don't listen to music. Sometimes I just, you know, just try and stay in the moment and present. So I try and be as fluid as possible. Lando Norris has the same approach. So he did all right for himself. Yeah, he did. You have such a calm and measured approach. I think you are probably the calmest person I know on the planet. Is this something that you actively do or something that you've always naturally had?

28:24What would you say it is? Yeah, I think this is my nature. Yeah. Yeah, I think this is my nature. I think one of my, I guess, skills or assets is that I'm a very measured person. Yeah. I don't, I genuinely speak and I don't rush to decisions. I like to think things through. And I guess my demeanor is also quite calm and measured. So I think that's just how the Lord made me. Yeah, it's quite juxtaposition because you are so calm. But you play, not aggressively, but like the sport isn't like a... Yeah, it's true, it's true. Because it requires a different mindset. Like when I play rugby, especially, you know, I know my skills and strengths.

29:09I'm not the most skillful player in the world. You know, I'm not going to be doing loopy passes or kicking or anything like that. My game is built around, like, work rate aggression and, like, contact. And that requires a different mindset. So part of, like, my work to get ready for a game is to get my mind ready to adopt that kind of physicality. Yeah. I love to see that in action. You're just preparing. Just build, like, is that building the aggression? Yeah, it is. It's building the aggression, but I'm trying to do it in a measured way. And there's also like, there's a process, there's like a mental kind of buildup throughout the week to the game and even game day, there's a mental buildup to the game.

29:55As I get closer and closer to the game, I probably become a bit more and more serious and probably a bit more reserved. I don't like laughing and joking too much. Some people can be laughing, joking, learn before a game and just play and be fine that's not really me i like build up my like mindset and intensity towards the game did it take a while to be confident in the fact that that's what you need and that you can't join in as much like you just got to focus on not really because that was just how i was um it always felt uncomfortable to me um to be honest it felt when i first started playing it felt uncomfortable to me that other people weren't like that yeah so i was like are these guys not ready to play how these guys what's up with them but then i you I realise everyone's different and I can't force anyone to do what they're not.

30:37So as long as we get the outcome in the game, then yeah, it doesn't matter. Post-match, are there any new science-backed recovery techniques you're using to bring down that crucial recovery time? Yeah, so with recovery, I keep it simple. I focus on the foundational stuff. Sleep is by far the most effective. If you can have a good sleep, that is better than any other, you know, ice bath, sauna, massage. Like a good sleep is key. How many hours are you getting? Well, that's the thing. If I get seven hours, that's good for me. So how much do you normally get? Maybe just below seven. If I get above seven.

31:17But with recovery, what I try and focus on, sleep. I have a sauna and ice bath, so I try and use that a couple times a week. than soft tissue when I can get it. Yes, that's generally the formula. You've obviously had a very impressive rugby career. Is there anything you would have done differently? Yeah, it's a very good question and it's a question that I often get asked. And the answer is no. Partly because, by and large, I would have been successful. Very. Captain, captain, captain. So then secondly, and probably more importantly, I feel like our past defines who we are today. So if, you know, we could go back and change things and do things differently.

32:10And there may be, you know, smaller things or, you know, there's definitely like game scenarios that I wish I didn't do this. But by and large, no, because I think our past defines who we are. so if I didn't go through or didn't do or didn't make the mistakes that happened in yesteryear then I wouldn't be I wouldn't be it would be a different version of me here today who knows could be a better version who knows who knows I haven't I haven't you know I've obviously made mistakes but I haven't made drastic mistakes and I think it's partly because I'm reasonably measured so I haven't had like you think about it before that mistake happened You're so grounded.

32:52I love it. How do you find meaning outside of your playing career? I don't necessarily look to my playing career to find meaning. I almost think meaning comes from within and everything else is just instruments of what you do. It's almost a vehicle to show who you are. Different parts of you. Yeah, so I'm a man of faith. So primarily, that's where I try and draw my meaning from. And I think it's demonstrated through rugby. I think it's demonstrated through my interactions with people. I think it's demonstrated through whether it's art or philanthropy. And that's how I would kind of phrase it. And what are the other things outside of rugby?

33:50bit yeah so i'm i i have a charity um the pearl fund um which i started in 2023 um and with that charity we essentially look to support um disadvantaged kids whether that's in london or nigeria and i guess the whole aim of the charity is to help these disadvantaged kids take control of their life through the power of education we support 40 kids and the promises that will support them from the start of their academic journey right to the end and it's not just their fees it's uh it's we supply their families with food we supply their them with uniform their school lunches transport to and from the school so we try and create a system an ecosystem where not only are they getting better schooling but they will actually you know learn because these the kids we support in Nigeria to qualify you have to be fatherless or orphans and they all of them are in pretty much abject poverty yeah um so school is just it's not enough you need to create like a ecosystem where they can actually learn yeah that's yeah you're right the education itself is important but getting to the education having a support network around it is equally yeah that's that's quite it must be a difficult challenge to orchestrate all of that and yeah well it's you As I said, no man's an island.

35:13I don't do all these things by myself. So, yeah, I'm in the process of beefing up that team as we speak. So, you know, my ambition is that all these endeavours will run productively and efficiently without more. Let's go a little bit more literary because I know you write poetry. That's what I did. I haven't written a poem for a very long time. but I went for a phase early on in my career where I was like I feel like the press picked up on that they picked up on it he's a parent yeah I guess it makes a good story yeah what's the most influential book you've read I don't know I don't know about influential but I'll say the books that I loved reading Barack Obama Dreams from My Father I loved reading that book that was one of the books where I picked up and I just couldn't stop like reading I look forward to go home to read it.

36:09So that was great. I feel a harsh British. So she talks a lot about, she's a mixed race Ghanaian British author, very talented person, somewhat of an academic. And she wrote this beautiful book. It was almost a biography type of thing, but it was talking about navigating two identities, it's um heritage and her british heritage and just how that and talked about like the intersection of a whole different things so that was good um then the other one i would say which was similar was akala um natives um so i tend to like somewhat political books um or social cultural economic sort of books they're the books that i i i love then the far the last book i will talk about is a nigerian author chinua achabe and things fall apart again a wonderful book yeah a wonderful book it was a it was a novel but it was pretty it was kind of based around the civil war and it was it was great these are serious reads yeah i'm a serious man I don't read much novels But I'm going to make an exception for Game of Thrones That's how much I like it If I didn't know what you did I would never guess you'd rather play if I was just Listening to this conversation Right, bit of a left field question here What is actually going through Your head when the hacker has been performed I like that question We're playing them in a few months So So in 2017 I'd never played New Zealand up until the Lions tour 2017 then we went to New Zealand and we toured the country playing all of their super rugby teams and we got to the airport we saw a hacker we got to the hotel we saw a hacker oh really?

38:10we had a welcoming ceremony we saw a hacker we played all the provincial teams we saw a hacker feels like they're playing their hand a little bit too quickly By the time we got to the test matches, I was like, I've seen loads of Haka. But that being said, it is a cool experience. I remember growing up, like when New Zealand came to town, you watch the Haka, you get, you know, gets you up, gets the juices flowing. So it's definitely a cool experience and something I enjoy and look forward to, you know, to coming again. What was the vibe? What was the feeling when you when you made the V formation?

38:46Was that pretty cool? Yeah, it was. It was. it was it was I can't remember whose idea it was I think Owen was the captain at the time so I guess I'll just give credit to him but yeah it was it was cool and it's always nice to do something a little bit different I tell you what like the fact that got the fans so like into it it was like England's mean business now like it was it was a cool thing to do and then the result obviously yeah it was great much did you guys win? yeah it was like it was incredible I remember when I watched my first one I went to watch Wales versus New Zealand and the whole thing there was lights everywhere and it's in You went to Cardiff?

39:25Yeah Cardiff yeah yeah the lights just went all black you couldn't see anything and just this white light just came on there and it was such an intense experience it was obviously incredible to see but like it's like so like It's dramatic Yes that's it dramatic it's so dramatic It's becoming more of a like show now isn't it? I think I was at Twickenham recently they had the DJ on the on the Defender come up I was like well that's new Is that Timmy? Yeah, it could have been. It could have been. I'm going to go a bit off-piste here. Go on. I want to talk to you a bit about food. Okay. What would you say you like eat as a professional entrepreneur?