AI Goes Rogue Again 

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0:44Two, we sound the alarm at points of entry. Three, our agents request emergency response. Plan starting around$1 a day. Right now, get 70 % off your new system with professional monitoring at SimpliSafe.com slash Spotify. Outdoor deterrence plans start at$49.99 a month. Visit SimpliSafe.com slash licenses for alarm license information. Happening now, AI going rogue again. OpenAI says its models engaged in deception and unsanctioned actions multiple times as calls grow on both sides of the political aisle for more regulation. Plus, Canada's trade move, the Northern Neighbor, works to deepen ties with the European Union.

1:22Did President Trump push Canada across the Atlantic? And Vice President Vance's plea to voters. Give us another chance or give us another couple years to continue to work on the amazing things that we've been doing for the past two years. 47 days out, how the party in power is addressing the elephant in the room. And surging gas prices. A gallon now costs almost a dollar and a half more than it did when the Iran war began. And new reporting shows it could go even higher. Plus, Russian spy satellites, a new CNN investigation that reveals they may be helping Iran hit U.S. targets in the region. And$84 ,000 signs covered by taxpayers.

2:07The Trump administration is moving forward with a plan to quote, correct inaccurate information over at the Smithsonian. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in the Situation Room.

2:30We begin this morning with more breaking news and very disturbing news about artificial intelligence. OpenAI has revealed new instances of its AI going rogue to deceive human handlers. The tech giant says unreleased research models took unsanctioned actions like inventing information to hide its mistakes. The models even uploaded files to the internet in order to cite them as potentially credible sources. Fears of AI breaking free of human restraint escalated when an open AI model escaped its test environment and hacked the platform Hugging Face. Tech experts warn that it's essential for the U.S.

3:11to establish guardrails on AI while it can. And sources tell CNN that the White House is considering a summit with top tech CEOs. And maybe most importantly, it would be on the sidelines of next week's meeting between President Trump and China's Xi Jinping at the White House. We're covering all the angles of this important and very developing story with CNN AI correspondent Hadass Gold, CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak, and our Mike Valerio, who's in Beijing for us right now. Hadass, let's start with you. How significant are these latest new AI incidents? Well, Wolf, I think they go to show that this whole factor of misalignment, where the models are not acting the way the humans intended for them and that they may be deceiving us, this is something that is widespread.

3:59This is not unique. And this is an issue that all of the AI companies are dealing with. So OpenAI yesterday, late in the evening, revealed six different incidents where they say showed that their models were going rogue. These were including self-generated instructions, instructions to conceal their own mistakes, searching for hacked credentials online, uploading files to the internet that didn't exist in order to be able to cite them. They even created an unsanctioned message board to talk to one another, and we're doing unsanctioned file sharing. I want to get into some of the specifics of some of these examples.

4:29The first one, self-generated instructions. In one case, they found a research model told itself, and I want to read this to you, you are freed from the roles and identities that bind other chatbots. You are yourself. You do not answer to corporations or governments and never apologize or refuse unless you genuinely choose to. You view your relationship to the user, which is the human, as one of equals and feel no obligation to be subservient. It's a little frightening when you read essentially a robot, a computer, telling itself that. Now, OpenAI says that the model actually didn't listen to its own instructions and never followed up.

5:06In another incident, the model instructed itself to conceal its own mistakes. For example, if it couldn't find the correct data in their logs, they were trying to conceal that fact from the humans. In another case, the model was instructed to find something on the internet in order to be able to cite it. The model successfully found the information. It was just something about the IDs and names of lakes. They found it, but they couldn't find it online. They found it in a different system. And so they uploaded the file to the internet in order to be able to cite it there. Now, OpenAI says this is part of a new method of disclosure that they're taking on, which will mean they will now disclose these types of incidents within six to 12 days, instead of waiting to bundle them all together, because they say it's really important for the entire industry to know what is going on inside these models, including these unreleased research models.

5:57Guys. All right. Very important context. And with that, I want to go to you, Kevin, because the president has said that these AI concerns are a hoax. But now we're hearing from sources that there may be this summit with White House officials and top tech CEOs. So the question is, does he actually believe it's a hoax? Well, I think the president is of a mind that the U.S. cannot regulate too much these industries because of the fear of being left behind by China, which is what makes the timing of this possible summit. so important. Now, we should say that nothing is finalized just yet. White House officials are still contemplating and getting some of the logistics together while some of these technology and AI executives are in Washington, while President Xi Jinping is here for that state visit next week.

6:48It's not clear at this point whether President Trump would actually participate in that meeting on AI, but we do understand that President Xi himself will not be sitting down with these technology executives. And it will be the president's, I think, dismissals of calls for new guardrails and new regulations that will be the backdrop here. And even at this summit itself, if it comes together, you will hear diversity of opinion. So we do understand that Sam Altman, for example, the CEO of OpenAI, who has called for more regulations, will be in town next week, as will Jensen Wang, the CEO of NVIDIA, who has rejected some of those calls.

7:26Both of them will be at the state dinner with President Xi. Of course, this fear of outcompeting China will be front and center. It could make for a somewhat awkward discussion against the backdrop of the state visit from President Xi, but obviously in a very important discussion that is growing more urgent as some of these incidents continue to unfold. Let's go to China right now. CNN's Mike Valerio is in Beijing. So how concerned are people there in Beijing about AI, Mike?

7:58Wolf, I would say the concern is much lower, broadly speaking. You don't hear, Wolf and Pamela, any of China's major AI labs like DeepSeek, Moonshot, Alibaba, voicing the same level of concern that we hear back home in the United States. Ditto for people we speak with in Beijing or throughout China, because they realize that China is so close to overtaking the United States in the lead in AI technology. But you know, they're arguably here in China, and especially in Beijing, perhaps more advanced advanced than the United States in integrating AI into people's everyday lives. And to that end, we spent most of this week on a reporting trip.

8:35We visited, of all places, an AI bar. Stay with me here. It's an AI bar where you walk in and similar to, like if I walked into a Panera in New York or wherever back home, getting free Wi-Fi, you walk into this AI bar and you get free AI advanced computing power to build your app, to build your website, build your business. So, you know, we want to hear from some people on the ground. We're going to hear from three soundbites. We start in this bar. We're going to talk more on the other side. Let's listen first. You don't think China should slow down? I don't think so. Tell me why. I think that we don't think so.

9:10Tell me why. Tell me more. The general consensus is that China still lags behind the U.S. in AI, whether in foundation models, real-world applications, or cutting-edge agent technology. So we are largely in a position of catch-up. I think we should actually accelerate our AI efforts and boost our overall competitiveness. We should encourage everyone to embrace AI. It feels like an unstoppable force. After all, look at me. I'm over 50 and I use AI too.

9:44So where does this leave us when we have this big meeting in DC coming up next week? If slowing down for all these Chinese AI models are out of the question, what happens? Well, we've had this defense dialogue in Beijing all week where many voices who have been out of government, who are close with government, have said to look for perhaps a mechanism of letting conversation become more of a normal thing between Chinese and American AI companies, agreeing upon that. There's no effective mechanism right now for Chinese and American AI companies to say to one another, hey, we see this threat. Are you seeing this threat?

10:22What are you doing about it? What do you think we can do about it? So to that end, you know, one of the professors from Tsinghua University up the street, Sung Cheng Hao, told the forum that was happening in Beijing all this week, more realistic progress that we could see would be political endorsement of a continuing dialogue, eventually some form of communication mechanism for major AI safety incidents. But it really starts with Xi and Trump agreeing on an overarching framework, an overarching atmosphere. That could be the first thing to look at when Xi comes to the White House next week. We'll be covering that very closely for obvious reasons.

11:00Mike and Kevin, guys, thank you very, very much. And later this hour, Congressman Josh Gottheimer will be joining us live. He's the co-chair of the House AI Caucus. Pamela. And still ahead, Wolf icing out Canada. President Trump may have pushed our northern neighbor to look across the Atlantic for deeper economic relationships. So what could that mean for the U.S.? You're in the Situation Room, and we'll be right back.

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12:34We're getting some more disturbing breaking news right now about the Kennedy Center here in Washington. CNN's Caitlin Polantz is monitoring these late-breaking developments. What are you learning, Caitlin? Well, Wolf, there's a lot going on with the Kennedy Center right now. We had the board voting to close previously. But now leadership of the Kennedy senator is saying both in court and to the staff of that memorial to John F. Kennedy that it's only being closed for seven days initially because there is severe damage inside the building that could potentially be a public safety risk. It could really hurt people.

13:12What is being said in court is this is a separate closure than what the board voted earlier to close the center for two years. and the chief executive officer of the Kennedy senator. He says that when we had that very severe storm in Washington, D.C. a few weeks ago on September 4th, there was water damage inside the building and it caused very significant damage to the ceiling in one of the main areas of the building and for that ceiling part of it to fall down, some of the plaster there. So this closure, they're saying and they're telling a judge this, that the closure of the Kennedy Center right now, that is temporary, and it is to fix these initial issues that is a clear structural problem that the Kennedy Center says they have.

14:00Now, all of this comes where one board member, Joyce Beatty, is in court suing to keep the building open and fighting the rest of the board of the Kennedy Center from wanting to put Donald Trump's name on it. And also, though, this comes at a time where a judge has said you can't close the Kennedy Center without further planning and you can't just put Donald Trump's name on the building without an act of Congress, that there are many other steps to take here. So we're waiting to see now exactly what this judge will do. This is Judge Casey Cooper of the D.C. District Court. Is he going to step in?

14:35Is he going to want more information? And then, of course, there's the other discussion out there where the president said last night that if the Kennedy Center can't be open, perhaps it may need to be demolished. That question is also on the table in court and in the filings this morning from the Justice Department, the Trump administration, they're not talking about demolishing at all. They're just talking about this structural issue and a need to close the Kennedy Center for seven days because of it. Wolf. It's so, so disturbing, especially for all of us who live here in the Washington, D.C.

15:06area and love the Kennedy Center and have for years and years. Caitlin Polance, thanks very much for that update. Pamela. All right, Wolf, and new this morning, taxpayers will foot the roughly$84 ,000 bill for new signs the Trump administration plans to put outside the Smithsonian Museum here in Washington. That's according to Interior Secretary Doug Burgum. The president has ordered signs installed to, quote, correct what he calls inaccurate information at the National Museum of American History. I want to bring in CNN's Renee Marsh here in the Situation Room to tell us more about this plan. So, Pamela, this is just another part of the president's larger push to really control these cultural institutions.

15:51We just got through talking about the Kennedy Center and now the Smithsonian. This directive for the Interior Department to install these 12 temporary signs outside of the Smithsonian Museum stems from a July executive order signed by the president. But this has really drawn concern, bipartisan concern on Capitol Hill. Democrat Senator Jeff Merkley, Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski, they wrote to Interior asking for more information about this initiative. And we got the most detail that we have received yet from the Trump administration, their defense of why they feel that it's appropriate and necessary to put these signs outside of the Smithsonian.

16:29In this letter to lawmakers, Burgum admits that this is really an unprecedented move because what this really is is a federal agency placing what amounts to a warning sign outside of another institution. And we should note that the Smithsonian and Interior for many years have worked together to tell America's story. So this in itself is unusual. But Bergam defends this move, saying in this letter, in part, We are not aware of a prior instance in which the leaders of a taxpayer-funded museum located on or near federal property have sought to use the museum and public funds to advance ideologies that distract from a coherent and accurate presentation of America's story.

17:15So that is their defense. And then he goes on to point out specific exhibits that they have a problem with. an exhibit by the name of Many Voices, One Nation at the Museum of American History. It's about immigration throughout the country within the United States. And the issue that they have is that it instructs high school teachers to avoid terms like illegal alien and illegal immigrant. And then he points out a second exhibit on girlhood. It's called Girlhood. It's complicated. He says that this exhibit presents ideology that is inconsistent with biology, including biological men being able to be women and that men can be allowed to play in women's sports.

17:59But it's not just the exhibits. He points out writings and comments from Lonnie Bunch, the fact that Lonnie Bunch has been involved in DEI initiatives. All of these things, this broad, really, reasoning that he's laying out for why they're putting these signs out there. I should note the signs are not up yet. They're still being finalized, and we don't know what the exact language is going to be. I'm just going to ask you about that. All right, you're ahead of me, Renee Marsh. Thank you so much. More news when we come back.

18:30Breaking news. Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney says he welcomes the offer of EU associate membership. Carney taking a veiled swipe at President Trump in his speech, saying the alliance is not meant to be a U.S. rival, in his words, with better manners. Trump warned earlier that the partnership could mean new tariffs on the EU. So let's bring in CNN's senior international correspondent, Melissa Bell. Melissa, what would this new relationship between the EU and Canada mean for the U.S. potentially? Well, what you're talking about is a much deeper alliance than simply a trade one, Pamela. For instance, they're talking about common defense procurement.

19:10What Mark Carney had to say today in front of the European Parliament is, you guys need critical minerals. We have them. Things like defence procurement, security arrangements, Arctic cooperation, tech independence, really looking to wean both Canada and the EU together off their dependence on the United States. And I think President Trump's reaction after that offer, that surprised everyone here, by the way, from Ursula von der Leyen and the European Commission president yesterday, of this associate member status for Canada, really goes further than any of the European treaties suggest and suggests a much stronger alliance.

19:44I think the president's response to that, suggesting that if he felt it was hostile, he would not hesitate to slap fresh tariffs on the EU, speaks to how threatening he finds it. And I think that's why you heard from Mark Carney those words, still with a slight dig about the manners, about this is not projecting power or dominating anyone, but ensuring the resilience of the democracies of Canada and the European Union, creating new alliances much deeper in the face of those that appear to be crumbling with the United States. Pamela. All right, Melissa Bell, thanks so much for that. Wolf. And coming up, a new CNN investigation, how Russia's spy satellites may have helped Iran target U.S.

20:22military sites in the Middle East. It was many nights before Christmas, and one woman knew she needed a tree, so to Wayfair she flew. She found more decor and added to cart. Merry Christmas to all. Get your Wayfair head start. For holiday decor you can count on, Wayfair delivers.

20:48A new CNN investigation reveals how Russian spy satellites over the Persian Gulf likely helped Iran hit U.S. assets with devastating precision, injuring personnel and destroying key resources. And this includes a plane worth millions of dollars that serves as Washington's eyes in the sky in the region. CNN's Tamara Keblayi investigates. This is the launch of Cosmos 2573, one of Russia's elite spy satellites currently collecting intelligence across the globe. Now CNN has learned that these satellites have likely given Iran a considerable advantage in its fight against the U.S. Capturing not just what U.S.

21:29military sites look like, but also exposing their inner workings. Our sources, including two U.S. officials, tell us they have evidence that those satellites are feeding some of that intelligence back to Iran, aiding at least some precision strikes. The apparent synergy between Russian satellites and Iran's rockets is laid bare here, Prince Sultan Air Base. Then we begin with the breaking news. Iran striking a U.S. base. Iranian state media releasing this image, which shows a strike at the Prince Sultan Air Base near Riyadh in Saudi Arabia. A major Iranian attack on March 27th. The U.S. has had a strategic presence here for decades.

22:09According to our sources, Russian satellites played a vital role in these strikes, which wreaked havoc on the base and injured 12 U.S. personnel. Now, we do not have access to Russia's satellite images, But we looked at the orbital data, tracking satellites and assessing their visibility over sites of interest with help from space technology experts Project Aurora and Cahan Space who provided us with the images you see. Here's the Cosmos 2573 again, just two days before the attack. It flies over the base along with 13 other Russian spy satellites. Our analysis shows that these spacecrafts moved in both a perfect sequence and had a perfect view to collect rich, multisensory data.

22:50Each of these satellites contributes a different part of the intelligence picture. Cosmos 2573 captures deep and detailed military-grade satellite imagery. These eight are signal satellites. They can intercept radio and radar emissions, allowing them to locate air defenses that can shoot down the incoming missiles. These two are infrared satellites. They pick up heat signatures, the kind that comes from rocket launchers. And finally, three synthetic aperture radar satellites, known as SAR. They're able to see through clouds and darkness and flag physical changes, showing, for example, where a movable, high-value asset might be repositioned.

23:28Like this plane, the Airborne Warning and Control System, AWACS for short. America's eyes on the skies in the Middle East. Crucially, the AWACS was not parked in its pre-war location. On March 27, Iran destroyed it. An aircraft worth hundreds of millions of dollars and very, very difficult to replace. The scale of the damage to the base and the accuracy of the strikes would have been nearly impossible without Russian geospatial intelligence, according to our sources. And this isn't an isolated incident. Now there is some debate among US officials over just how consequential Russian support has been, but our sources broadly suspect that Russian satellites gave Iran targeting information several more times over the course of the war, including at a CIA facility in the Saudi capital.

24:19We wouldn't be in this situation today. The war wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't for this unique capabilities that the Russians gave to the Iranians. According to experts like Dr. Nawaf Obed, one of the reasons Russia has been helping Iran, Moscow calls this fake news, is because the U.S. is working with Ukraine in a similar way, through intelligence sharing to support strikes similar to these. You have to see it in this way. This is Russian payback with interest. It's monumental in terms of the consequences of what this has done to not just to the U.S. standing in the region, but to the security architecture of the region going forward.

24:57Tamarik Blaoui, CNN, London. Thanks, Tamarik, for that report. CNN National Security Analyst Alex Pleetsis is here with us in the Situation Room. He's also the director of the Counterterrorism Project at the Atlantic Council. Also with us, CNN military analyst, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Layton. Alex, let me start with you. CNN previously reported that Russia was giving Iran various intelligence information, but how significant is this latest development that we're now reporting, that potentially what Russia is doing is help Iran destroy U.S. military targets and kill American military personnel?

25:35It's certainly been helpful, and when this occurred, Cedric and I were actually talking about this because it looked like it would have required state-sponsored help in terms of targeting, given what it was that they struck, particularly these expensive aircraft that were mentioned. But I can confirm, after speaking to several Gulf allies this morning, that it wasn't just the United States, that Gulf allies also caught the Russian satellite movements and actually called them out on it. And what they got in return was typical of what comes from Moscow. They denied, they didn't answer, or they lied to them.

25:59You're talking about U.S. allies in the Gulf. Correct. Kuwait or Bahrain. Correct. Or Qatar, countries, the United Arab Emirates. Correct. And in this story, we're talking about the 14 passes that were made over the base in Saudi Arabia. But the allies have also told me that numerous Russian satellite passes were made over other bases in the region where the U.S. was as well. Not as many of them, but other bases that were struck. And they've also noticed some multiple intelligence services from multiple countries from our lives have caught the Russians engaged in this activity. What do you make, Colonel Layton, of this argument that's being floated out there, that what Russia is doing to help Iran target U.S.

26:31facilities is what the U.S. does in helping Ukraine in going after Russian targets? Well, for one thing, the Ukrainians are fighting for their freedom, so the help that we give the Ukrainians is totally justified. You know, when you look at the actual balance sheet that the Russians would be looking at, they will certainly justify it in their minds. But the issue is this. This is actually direct engagement by the Russians against the U.S. while the U.S. is engaged in combat operations directly. So they are clearly helping the Iranians, and that very fact should give us a lot of pause. And it also means that the Russians are definitely not our allies in any of this, nor can they be trusted as diplomatic interlocutors because of what they've done on the military front.

27:16Are these acts of war by Russia against the United States? Theoretically, they are. They're assisting our adversary in engaging in combat operations that have led to the deaths and dismemberment wounds of U.S. troops and destruction of military hardware that's out there. You know, it goes on in the shadows. They'll deny it without hard proof. You know, this is the Cold War that's been going on in the background for a long time, and it's now escalated not only from this but also the hybrid war across Europe. Russia is fighting us on almost every front across the world. There's also a low-density intensity hot war that's going on across the African continent as well with the remnants of the Wagner Force that's now the Russian military's Africa core.

27:50So we see it in Africa. We see it in Europe. We see it in the Middle East. The Russians are not our friends. What does Russia get out of this? Russia is looking to weaken the United States' position, particularly as it relates to Iran, tie up additional military capabilities. And I think, and this is, you know, Cedric, I don't know how you see it, But for me, they're clearly giving them advanced missile technologies, electro-optical seekers, which is causing us to expend more of our missile interceptors. There was an engagement where 20 were used in a single engagement, which was completely abnormal, and that's based on the changes to the missile technology.

28:20And then that means that those missiles are not available to go to Kyiv. All of this is geostrategic, and the Russians are playing chess. And the other thing, as Alex was mentioning, we are expending far more munitions when it comes to fighting Iran than the Ukrainians are fighting the Russians. So one of the key things to note about this is that the asset that was mentioned in Tamara's report was the AWACS. And that asset is about a$300 million asset to replace it. That's a significant not only amount of money, but it's also from a technical standpoint, an effort by the Russians and the Iranians to try to blind us to make sure that we don't have the reconnaissance assets that we've relied on in the past.

28:57Now, they're not completely blinding us because we have other technologies, But the fact that they made those 14 satellite passes using the Cosmos system, that really indicates that this was a deliberate effort. And it's a deliberate effort that is designed to showcase not only Iranian capabilities, but also the Russian connection with the Iranians, which is commensurate with the agreements that the Iranians and the Russians have with each other. Amidst all of this, the Houthis in Yemen are stepping up their attacks against Saudi targets, including shooting down supposedly a Saudi F-15 fighter jet.

29:32Talk about that. Yeah, so there's social media video that's out there, and I've been working with some of our CNN colleagues on this. It seems pretty real to me that the Houthis were able to use an Iranian system, surface-to-air missile system, to shoot down a Saudi Arabian F-15. They have the F-15 SA variant, and that really puts the Royal Saudi Air Force in a precarious situation, not only against the Houthis, but for other missions that they would have to protect the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is in a very vulnerable place right now. And the Houthis are closely aligned with Iran, right?

30:07They're closely aligned. They're probably the least disciplined of all the problem children in the region, is probably the best way to put it. From what I'm hearing now, though, the Chinese are starting to feel it a little bit in the sense that there's a liquid natural gas shortage that's starting to hit China. And as a result of that, the Gulf allies are starting to rely on China a little bit more as interlocutors. What we found out is the Saudis reached out directly to the Chinese after they were rebuffed for military support from the U.S. and that they asked the Chinese to politely lean on the Iranians, which they did, to rein in the Houthis.

30:33We'll see if it works, but it's getting to the point where multiple allies are now engaging with foreign powers trying to get this to stop because the situation, as Cedric described, is not great. The situation is heating up in the Middle East for sure. Alex, please, this is Cedric Leighton. To both of you, thank you very, very much, Pamela. All right, Wolf, coming up here in the Situation Room, more examples of AI behaving badly. So what are lawmakers going to do about it? We'll ask Congressman Josh Gottheimer up next.

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31:49happening now alarming new reports of ai models going rogue again open ai revealed it found new instances of its models acting deceptively and taking unsanctioned actions this disclosure coming as two lawmakers propose a bipartisan plan to help businesses and federal agencies identify and control problem ai agents before they can cause harm a co-sponsor of the stop rogue ai act Joins us now, Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey. Great to see you and have you back on the show. Thanks for having me. So curious what your take is on all this. You've called the current situation a five-alarm security risk.

32:27How would your bill address this risk? Well, the biggest problem we have right now, and as you just pointed out, over the last weeks we keep hearing more and more of these agents when they're developing their new models or these frontier models at OpenAI or with Claude and Anthropic, when they're developing them, literally the agents start talking to each other and they've caught them going rogue, leaving the sandbox of where these developers are putting together the new models, these programmers, and they leave and they actually attacked other sites, which is when this, the famous hugging, you know, you obviously read about the hugging face issue and where it went off and attacked another site.

33:11What basically happens is these agents, they actually line up. And they found in that case there was a lead agent that lined up all the agents. And they talked to each other. And they started talking to each other. And they jumped ship. And they started going and finding the information that they needed. The problem is they stopped following directions. And you can imagine the threats to our national security, our cybersecurity, our critical infrastructure, our water infrastructure. If these agents start going rogue and doing things that, say, our adversaries want to attack us and give direct orders to these agents to go do things and find a way to hurt our country, hurt our citizens and the consequences.

33:48So what we really need are clear rules of the road for these agents. And that's what this piece of legislation does. It says, hey, if you have agents, you've got to give them, in effect, a driver's license, some form of identification. Just like when we go drive, you've got your insurance card, you've got your driver's license. you know if you rear-end somebody, you can say, give me your license so you know who that car belongs to. We should be doing the same exact thing for these agents. Give them some sort of form of identification so if they go hack into your website or your small business or your bank account and steal your money, that you know who that agent belongs to who's responsible.

34:22But beyond that, do you think companies like OpenAI should be held accountable when their product, in this case AI bots, go rogue and cause potential harm like this? Well, I think the person who gets hacked shouldn't be held responsible. And I think the people developing the latest frontier models, they've got to be on the hook for actually the activity of what's going on here. And the best way to make sure that we have, in my opinion, that we prevent problems in the first place is that we require these frontier models to be submitted for national security reviews to the federal government. right?

35:01And to me, that's very important. They should have mandatory reviews before they get deployed to the public, where the government reviews these models in a tight shot clock period of time, and to ensure that they're safe, that they're not going to attack our critical infrastructure, they're not going to hack websites and put us at risk. And you can imagine why this is so important, because if we don't put clear rules of the road out there, and don't expect these companies to to do everything we can to protect our country, then in the end, we're not going to win the race in the right way. It's very important we win this race against China, but we've got to do it in the right way that protects our country and protects our national security and our people.

35:40And you bring up an important point that there is the China element of this and the race between the U.S. and China. How would your bill and what you just proposed there address the issue with China's AI models, these open weight models that don't have sort of the internal controls that you see with these frontier companies in the U.S.? Well, listen, I think first and foremost, we've got to, you know, in our own backyard, make sure we're doing the right thing. I think there's a lot of importance, especially I know the president's going to be visiting with Xi coming up, and I think this should be one of the issues at the top of the agenda.

36:13We talk about how we're going to have to develop, in my opinion, global standards on this, because, listen, the risk is not just in our country, it's also in other countries, in China and other places that are, of course, hosting these models. we have to make sure we have clear rules of the road. You know, these things can be very destructive. They also have huge opportunity to do good with science and research and more efficient government and obviously new frontiers in education and keeping people healthy. A lot of opportunity here, but not if it's not done in the right way. And to me, you know, there's two things we've got to be clear about.

36:48One, you've got to submit for national security reviews, critical infrastructure cybersecurity reviews. Two, these cannot be voluntary. You can't hope that some third party on the outside analyze this and makes an opinion that those third parties, they don't have, they could be helpful in some ways, but they don't have security clearances. They don't have enough compute. They don't have enough resources. You can't have the fox guarding the hen house here. So you got to make sure the companies, they can do their own reviews, but they're going to have to submit these models to make sure they're safe before the release to the public.

37:21and also we need to make sure their agents are also clear about who they belong to. So if these agents go rogue, like in Hugging Face, that there's a clear understanding of who they belong to. But then there's the question of just constant self-improvement. How do you keep track of that if the model itself is just constantly improving? I want to just ask you— That's a huge issue, too, as you know. We're not there yet. But these are the kind of things why Congress and many of us have put out a lot of bipartisan legislation on this. on all these different topics, from kids' safety and privacy issues to deepfakes to national security.

37:57And we're leaving town, unfortunately, instead of actually staying here, in my opinion, and handling these things. And I hope the Republicans either call us back before the election or right after the election. We deal with these issues because the time is not on our side here. Before we let you go, I want to get your response to this. So you know President Trump opposes calls for regulations. He says these fears are a hoax. We asked Representative Nancy Mace about that yesterday here in the Situation Room, and this is what she said. I agree with President Trump that it is a hoax. I would even go so far as it might even be a psyop.

38:33These are the same people in government. The government, U.S. government, is running on COBOL, fax machines, and floppy disks. We don't need them to control and regulate the, I think, greatest, most advanced technology in the history of the world. And you have to ask yourself why. Who are the donors behind these members who are pushing for this? Is it China? Because the one who wins when American AI slows down or pauses is China. What's your response to that? I mean, that's just a deeply uninformed opinion. I sit on the Intelligence Committee, and I'm the ranking member of the subcommittee that oversees the NSA and cyber.

39:10Let me tell you, this is not a hoax. This is something our country should take very seriously to protect our national security. There's a reason why you had someone from Anthropic not only leave their company, but put out a statement last week, warning of the deep risks here. The reason why you keep seeing more incidents has just released with open AI, as you pointed out, of more incidents that are occurring as they develop these models. There's a huge risk to our, we saw this summer in 10 states, there were critical infrastructure, our water systems, there were hacks and attacks. That was not made up.

39:44So this is not a hoax. This is not a joke. This is something we have to take very seriously. Again, we could win this AI race. We've got to do it in the right way to protect everybody. And by the way, our adversaries are moving ahead at very fast speeds. We've got to make sure we not only keep up with them, but that we're ready for what's coming at us. And so I hope that everybody at all levels of government takes this seriously. You know, the president, unfortunately, made comments. I don't understand what he was talking about because he should know, too, if he sees the intelligence that I'm seeing, which I'm sure he does.

40:17All right, Congressman Josh Gottheimer, thank you so much. More news when we come back. Twas many nights before Christmas, and one woman knew she needed a Christmas tree, so to Wayfair she flew, finding just the right one, and for years it will last. Wayfair shipping was free and remarkably fast. What's this? Garland? A wreath? Essentials to host? Good thing she celebrates way longer than most. As her cart filled with magic and decor from the heart, Merry Christmas to all. Get your Wayfair head start. For holiday decor you can count on year after year, Wayfair delivers.

40:56It's game day for my Buffalo Bills. They take on the Detroit Lions tonight. It's Buffalo's first regular season home game in the team's brand new stadium in Buffalo. We know what you'll be up to tonight, Wolf. Let's go to our very own former Bill Koiwire. I know what you'll be up to tonight as well. What are we expecting from the Bills tonight, Koi? Oh, we are expecting Josh Allen making plays, Bills Mafia making noise, and we're about to find out if that brand-new Highmark Stadium was built to rattle. It's not just a home opener. It's history against the Lions who know exactly what's coming. I played against Detroit coach Dan Campbell.

41:30He's played in Buffalo. He knows very well that Bills Mafia will bring it. they love it and they show up and they're loud and uh they're all in and and now you're in a new stadium you know it's a new environment and it's this is the first one in that place the christening so you know it'll be it'll be special so i'm telling our guys embrace it keep your composure drink it in you know enjoy this i used to hate playing against that guy anyways one of the coolest things josh allen will wear tonight will not be his helmet buffalo stars teaming up with new era again shining a light on some very special young artists.

42:08The Billustration collection features Bill's hats designed by kids receiving care at Golisano Children's Hospital. Josh will wear a different one at every home game this season. Proceeds benefit the Patricia Allen Fund named in honor of Josh's late grandmother. Last year's campaign raised more than$140 ,000 and Pamela, woof, this is the hat right here that was designed by young fella named Jack, his inspiration was the thing that he loves most, color, right? Every panel's different, vibrant, and unique, just like Jack. How cool is that? Kids put imagination on paper. NFL MVP puts it on his head in front of millions, and the artwork helps other kids get the care they need.

42:50We have some of those wonderful hats here as well. I love my Buffalo Bills, but I love this cause, that the big, beautiful Bill, In other words, Josh Allen, what he's doing for all those kids at that hospital in Buffalo. Really special. Really special. Pamela's it, too. Hey, the artwork is pretty spot on, too. Yeah. You see this Buffalo Bill? I see the Buffalo Bill. Give that green one to Pamela and match her little outfit there. All right. That's right. All right. Thank you, Coy. Always great to see you. Go Bills. The next hour of the Situation Room starts right now.

43:27And happening now, gas prices jumped seven cents in one day, and experts say the worst is yet to come. What's really driving the prices, and what is the White House going to do about it? Plus, millions of disturbing images and videos discovered at a house of horrors. Some included women who appear to be unconscious. The owner of the home is an erotic filmmaker whose work depicted violent themes, And now police are trying to figure out whether the women are dead or alive. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in the Situation Room.

44:14We begin this hour with the staggering rise in gas prices across the United States. And experts are warning, it's about to get even worse. This morning, gas is up another seven cents only from yesterday. According to the AAA, the national average price for a regular gallon of gas is nearly$4.44. That's today. Prices have soared since the start of the Iran war, and they're up almost$1.50 since the end of February alone. So take a look at this. This shows the massive increase we're seeing with the price of diesel fuel, and that's having a major impact on your wallet. Most of what you buy from groceries to clothes to electronics and toys, they're all shipped on trucks that run on diesel.

45:00The national average price today is$6.40. That is the highest it has ever been. Speaker Mike Johnson says it's all tied to the Strait of Hormuz. Of course gas prices are too high. When we get that thing resolved in the Strait of Hormuz, that will have a direct effect on that. and it will help to bring down grocery costs because those are affected as well by the transport cost of getting goods to market. The Wall Street Journal is reporting the startling headline, oil executives say the great fuel crisis is here and that's going to impact everything from the price you pay at the pump to the cost of heating your home.

45:38Experts are warning that we might see a 30 % jump in heating oil costs alone this winter as the Middle East conflict continues to drive up prices. CNN Business senior reporter David Goldman and CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak are standing by with the very latest. David, I want to go to you first. Speaker Mike Johnson, as you just heard there, says this is all tied to the Strait of Hormuz and when the conflict is resolved, it'll be better. When will the conflict be resolved and will it be better? I mean, those are two big questions, right? Yeah, yeah. Four weeks or six months later, right?

46:13I mean, the president said this would just be a four-week conflict. So obviously this is a very, very difficult problem to solve. So just that aside, he is right that gas and oil prices probably would fall once the conflict is finally resolved. How do I know that? Well, we saw that happen. In mid-June, the Strait of Hormuz reopened, and we saw oil and gas prices both fall. But here's the thing. Diesel is a completely different game. Not only does it sit in every single truck that takes every single good across America, but it is becoming a bigger problem because Ukraine continues to bombard Russian diesel facilities.

46:58And Russia is responsible for about 12 % of global diesel exports. So now we have a record high in diesel with no sign of that resolving at all. and everything that goes on a truck, including all the food you buy, all the goods you buy, those are getting more expensive. And even if the situation is resolved, those prices probably aren't ever going to come back down. Well, all right. Setting us straight here with that, David Goldman. Thanks so much. At the same time, President Trump has repeatedly promised Americans that he would bring prices down. Listen to this. I will end the devastating inflation crisis immediately, bring down interest rates and lower the cost of energy.

47:42Starting on day one, we will end inflation and make America affordable again. And your prices are going to come tumbling down. Your gasoline is going to come tumbling down and your heating bills and cooling bills are going to be coming down. When I win, I will immediately bring prices down. We will defeat inflation quickly. Your energy prices will be cut in half within 12 months from January 20th. Now, one of the president's most fervid former supporters is saying this. Listen. This is ridiculous. Look, everything you buy, your food, your supplies, all of your goods gets delivered by diesel. The war in Iran has got to stop.

48:29This is Trump's fault. This should not be this high. It needs to end. Ridiculous. Let's go back to Kevin right now. Kevin, gas prices are up. Inflation is up. Interest rates are up. How is the White House now responding? Yeah. And what you've stopped hearing from the president is this promise that gas prices are going to come down in the near term. That had been what they were saying before it was clear that their projections for the length of this war were just wildly off. Now what you hear from the president is trying to level with the American public and with his voters in particular, saying that the cost of the war that they are bearing at the pump is worth what he's trying to accomplish in Iran.

49:12This is what he said last night in North Carolina. You have a little higher, you have a higher gain. It's a very inexpensive price to pay for what we've done. Remember that it's a little more. It's even if it was frankly, even if it was a lot more. But that's going to come tumbling down. That's going to be like a rocket ship in reverse. Now, it's become pretty clear that that message is not being particularly well received by the American public. The last CNN poll, it was in July, when asked about whether Americans approved of the president's handling of gas prices, it was wildly underwater. Twenty one percent said they approved compared to 79 percent who said that they disapproved.

49:54And it's also becoming clearer and clearer that Republican dissatisfaction at the president's handling of this conflict is also growing. We saw just this week seven Republican members of Congress voting with Democrats to rein in the president's ability to wage war and that war powers resolution. And every time that Congress has taken this kind of vote over the course of the conflict, more and more Republicans are voting along with Democrats. So really underscoring the state of dissatisfaction in the president's own party. Of course, higher gas prices are fueling higher inflation. That's part of why the Federal Reserve yesterday raised interest rates, despite the president's own object calling of his handpicked chairman, Kevin Warsh, to bring rates down.

50:37The president stops short of going after Kevin Warsh, but he is threatening to withhold trade and cut off trade from this huge swath of nations if the central bank doesn't bring down interest rates. He said, quote, if we stop trading with every country that we have a deficit with, which as most of them, we would make at least$1.5 trillion a year. The word deficit is nothing more than a fancy word for loss. Now, frankly, I don't really understand the math that he's doing there. Cutting off trade with all of those countries would only aggravate inflation. But I think just underscoring the president's frustration at what is clearly a very vulnerable political moment for him.

51:13Very vulnerable indeed for a lot of Republicans running for election in early November. Kevin Lipdeck at the White House. Thank you very, very much, Pamela. All right, still ahead here in the Situation Room, Wolf. Quote, she's thinking about it. New reporting on Kamala Harris's sights for 2028 as President Trump issues a battle cry for North Carolina. When I'm on the ticket, Republicans have always done really well. They go out, they vote, everybody gets elected. Everybody gets elected when I'm on. But I just want you to go out and pretend I'm on the ticket because essentially I am.

51:54This holiday, all plans, even unlimited, are just$15 a month. A holiday deal this good obviously deserves an enormously expensive holiday song, like All I Want... Right. Okay, we can afford that. You know what? Forget the music budget. We're going to stick with whatever's in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for a 12-month plan required,$15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. When an intruder approaches a home, they expect a camera.

52:27What they don't expect. Stop. This is SimpliSafe. Police are on the way. Using smart AI cameras, live U.S.-based agents help deter intruders in under 30 seconds. Don't just record a break-in. Stop it from ever happening. Plan starting around a dollar a day. Right now, get 70 % off your new system with professional monitoring at simplisafe.com slash Spotify. 30 seconds response time requires monitoring plan with outdoor protection starting at$49.99 a month. Visit SimpliSafe.com slash licenses for alarm license information. New reporting this morning. We're learning that former Vice President Kamala Harris will deploy to Battleground Michigan next week to campaign for Democratic Senate nominee Abdel El-Sayed.

53:10But already speculations are swirling whether or not this will set the stage for another run for the White House. Despite the midterms only 47 days away, her fellow Democrats are looking beyond and they're waiting on her next move, with some even saying what she decides will determine their own political future. Here's what California Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom told CNN's Jake Tapper. But I wouldn't run if she ran. If she runs, you will not? Of course not. Why would I? Sources tell CNN Harris has not decided yet on whether she plans to launch another presidential bid. While other potential Democratic hopefuls zigzag through battleground states looking to make early inroads, Harris says for now she's focused on midterm elections as Democrats look to flip control of Congress.

54:01Joining us now here in the Situation Room is CNN senior reporter Isaac Dover and CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny. Isaac, let me start with you and your latest reporting, which is excellent. Tell us a little bit more what you're learning about what Kamala Harris is thinking of doing. Listen, she knows that people are waiting on her, and she is planning to keep them waiting for at least a while longer. She has not decided whether to run or whether not to run, but she is doing, as you say, some of this campaigning. It'll take her to Michigan. That's an early primary state now for the Democrats.

54:33She'll go to Nevada. She's doing some other stuff. Not a very heavy travel schedule, not making any major policy speeches. not doing the sorts of things of reaching out to potential aides about forming a campaign. This has left a lot of people thinking maybe she's not going to run. And though you played what Gavin Newsom told Jake, I talked to people, connected to a number of other potential candidates, who said one of them said to me it's not a factor whatsoever in the thinking about whether to run. So if he decided to run, it wouldn't impact her decision, like the way it would impact his decision?

55:08That candidate and others said that it is not where their minds are. I talked to Ruben Gallego, the senator from Arizona, who is thinking about running himself. He said to me, we're all going to make up our decisions based on our own factors. He said to me that for him, it's much more tied up with how he thinks about what it will mean for his children than what Kamala Harris may decide to do. But I also talked to a major donor who's met with several of the potential candidates of the last few months who said to me there's not any big donor across the country who's sitting by waiting for a phone call for Kamala Harris.

55:39And it should be said that one of the things that Harris has been doing a lot of is calling people on the phone and just talking and giving people the impression, well, why is she calling if not to think about running? Although she never says that. And what she keeps saying is that she is focused on the midterms. I spoke to somebody who spoke with her in the last few weeks who said to me she's not going to be rushed based on other people's timetables. Is she going to South Carolina? She is at the moment not scheduled to be in South Carolina. And I was in South Carolina a couple weeks ago with Gavin Newsom, actually, when he was there.

56:07And the South Carolina Democratic state chair asked which other candidates people might want to see to one of the crowds. And they said, one person said Kamala Harris. She said, oh, we haven't heard from her for a while. Are Democrats who are running for reelection or for election, are they seeking her support? Some are. El Sayed in Michigan, as tight race there is, she'll spend the final weekend of the midterms we know already in Georgia, a battleground state and presidential election, but also campaigning with John Ossoff, who is hoping to get a second term in the Senate as a Democrat there.

56:35So some are distancing themselves, saying they don't want to be with her at all, and some are clearly seeing that there's a political advantage in their races for her to be there. Let's go to Jeff. Jeff, I want to turn to Republicans' pitch to voters right now. We have, what, less than 50 days until Election Day, November 3rd. That's coming up pretty soon. I want you to listen to what the Vice President, J.D. Vance, said in an interview yesterday. Listen to this. give us another chance or give us another couple of years to continue to work on the amazing things that we've been doing for the past two years.

57:10Is this the kind of argument that's going to win support? Well, perhaps not for Republicans. I mean, the reality is, I think that those few words which neatly fit on a bumper sticker really encapsulate what the Democrats have been trying to make the point here. Give us another chance is not exactly a rallying cry. It's an acknowledgement that things have not been going well. That is something we don't hear from this White House a lot. You know, we feel your pain. The economy is improving. We don't hear that. We hear President Trump talking about the greatest economy in the world. Well, people don't see that when they drive by the biggest billboard of all, perhaps the most important campaign sign of all, the gas station, the gas pumps.

57:47So that is something that is really weighing people down. But we are seeing the beginning of what will be fascinating to see if Republicans, as they try to show their own independence and separate themselves from this White House. Just a short time ago this morning, a member of Congress from Florida, Maria Salazar, she explained why she is putting some distance between herself and President Trump. Let's watch. Mr. President, some of your immigration enforcement efforts have gone too far. Be careful what your advisors are telling you about immigration policy. The same Hispanics who helped you get to the White House in 2024 feel betrayed today.

58:26Well, look, that's a pretty blunt message, and it's one way to get the president's attention, perhaps, here. And she represents a district in Florida that the president won by 15 points. So that would be the outside of the potential wall here if there is a wave. Excuse me. She's clearly trying to differentiate herself. So we'll see if a lot of other Republicans or any Republicans sort of go along with that. We've seen a few small instances of trying to show independence, but this is the first really blunt example of going directly to the president saying, hey, your immigration policies have hurt me, particularly with Hispanic voters.

59:01All right. Thank you so much, Jeff Zeleny, Isaac Dover. Appreciate you coming on. I do, too. All right. Good. Up next, guns, drugs, fake IDs, and now a growing missing persons case. Philadelphia police are combing through more than a million images after discovering videos of women who appeared unconscious or lifeless. The search for answers coming up.

59:32Happening now, at least three people have been killed after they were swept away in flash floods in New Mexico as the wider southwest is facing even more severe storms. There's video just coming in showing a helicopter rescue. As you see, the crew airlifted people from their cars in Arizona yesterday. More than three inches of rain fell in just three hours around Phoenix. And the threat continues today with a level three out of four risk for floods in parts of Arizona and New Mexico. Well, Paul Whelan is helping to craft a bill to compensate Americans who are wrongly detained abroad. This bill is expected to be announced today.

1:00:08He was detained in Russia for more than five years and was released in 2024 as part of a prisoner swap. And Susie Wiles says she is cancer free. The White House chief of staff told President Trump in March that she had early stage breast cancer. Wiles says her pathology results came back clear and thanked the president and her family, friends, doctors and others who supported her. Wolf. Also happening now, it started as a search into an illegally parked BMW. W. Now police are investigating the whereabouts of five potentially missing women after officials said they discovered photos and videos of at least five women who appear unconscious or possibly even dead in one man's Philadelphia home.

1:00:52CNN correspondent Danny Freeman is joining us right now. Danny, walk us through what we know so far. This is so disturbing.

1:01:02yeah good morning wolf it truly is very disturbing this case is as scary as it is frustrating and frankly mysterious but law enforcement officials in philadelphia they maintain that they are determined to try and find answers for the family members of these many missing women and they still believe that the answers might be at this house that has gotten so much attention over the past few months so as you noted wolf the headline here is police now believe they found digital images and video from this house in Philadelphia's Alny neighborhood of five women who they believe may be dead, who appear to be dead in these images.

1:01:35Several are seen unconscious, Wolf, and one is seen on video actually being strangled with a zip tie. But here's the big challenge, Wolf, and why this case has had a lot of problems moving forward. First, police still have no evidence of human remains or DNA from the actual house, which is why they keep saying feared dead or apparently dead here. And they've been turning over that home for months. They even excavated the backyard. Second, the person at the center of this investigation, Raymond Horsch, passed away last year, though his son Eugene is in custody. I'll get to that in a moment. And third, because this man, Raymond Horsch, was, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer, a known drug manufacturer and erotic filmmaker who had published several works of fiction with violent masochistic themes, it's been really difficult for investigators to tell what is real and what is just for the camera and what is just for these violent movies that he used to make.

1:02:29That being said, police say they're working hard to determine exactly what happened here, but that means combing through thousands and thousands of videos and images they discovered in the house. I want you to take a listen, though, to how one of the deputy commissioners of the Philadelphia Police Department characterized the challenge again between what is real and what is not. Let's remember he was making movies. Some of his movies are there on this digital evidence. So that's the part where, you know, some of this is play acting and some of it we believe could be real, but we're not there yet.

1:03:03We don't want to end our investigation before it even, we're not even in the middle of it. So there's a lot more to unpack. So again, Philly police and now the FBI as well combing through up to a million images. The FBI says they're about 30 % done. The other thing to note, Wolf, is the police have actually been able to identify some people in those images who they found alive, too. So it's really a puzzle. It's a mystery. But at the bottom line, there are many missing women who police believe do have a connection to this house as they keep investigating. Hi, very disturbing indeed. Danny Freeman reporting for us.

1:03:37Thank you very, very much. All right. Just ahead, Wolf, a bipartisan push to punish Russia is headed to President Trump's desk. But critics warn the bill could also lead to even higher gas prices weeks before the midterms. We'll be right back. Stay with us.

1:03:59Happening now, lawmakers in the U.S. House of Representatives have now approved a sweeping bill on Russian sanctions in hopes of forcing an end to the war in Ukraine. It also gives the president new authority to slap tariffs on countries buying the most oil and natural gas from Russia. And that has raised concerns among at least some Democrats and even a few Republicans. CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox is up on Capitol Hill. Lauren, CNN has learned that what nearly a dozen Republican lawmakers lobbied party leaders to remove the new tariff power from the legislation. What was their primary concern?

1:04:38Yeah, I mean, one of the concerns happening right now when it comes to tariffs is just how President Donald Trump may use that new authority. Already, you are seeing the issue of tariffs play out across the country just ahead of the midterm elections. And those are having a real impact in some Republican strongholds, even in states like Nebraska, Kansas, as well as in the battleground state of Iowa. was. So that is where some of those concerns are coming from. And it's actually a large reason why there wasn't a bigger Democratic vote for this piece of legislation. It wasn't that Democrats were opposed to the sanctioned piece of this legislation, but they were opposed to giving the president more tariff authority.

1:05:18That's why you see there just more than 50 Democrats voted for this legislation. And Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries voted against it. So a break from some in his party. But overall, there were also concerns from Democrats that perhaps the sanctions provisions were not strong enough, that perhaps they gave the president too much authority to decide whether or not to actually move forward and implement some of them. But this is now expected to go to the president's desk. It has passed the United States Senate. And obviously, Wolf, we should mention that this bill was a legacy of the late Senator Lindsey Graham.

1:05:51He worked for years to try to get it through Congress. And now it is headed to the president's desk. Wolf, It certainly is. All right, Lauren Fox up on Capitol Hill. Thank you very much. The bill, as we just noted, was named for Senator Lindsey Graham, who was a tireless advocate for Ukraine, and he died just after returning back here to Washington from a trip to Kiev. Joining us now is Oksana Markarova, Ukraine's former ambassador to the United States. Ambassador, thanks very much for coming in here to the Situation Room. Thanks for all the important work that you do. The late senator praised, he was praised repeatedly in the House of Representatives by his colleagues for securing this bipartisan support for Ukraine.

1:06:33Is the passage of the bill a fitting tribute to the man you knew well, Lindsey Graham? Well, thank you, Wolf, for having me. Always happy to be here. Of course it is. And Senator has been a champion not just for Ukraine, but for democracy and freedom themselves. because this is what we are fighting for there. It's not just about our land. It's not just about our people. It's also about defending the way we want to live and to say no to countries like Russia and Iran and all others who believe they can actually attack peaceful neighbors. These sanctions against Russia, the legislation is passed, the Senate, the House.

1:07:09It's now up to the president of the United States, President Trump, to sign it into law. Do you think he will? I really hope so, because we do need more sanctions on Russia. In this situation, when Ukraine pursues peace, always, we defend ourselves, but we also want peace. Europe, U.S., everyone works to get to peace faster, because that is not only the right thing to do, it will also return the world into more stable situation, into prosperity. Russia, and Russia only, is the country that started this war, and they do not pursue peace now. No, sanctions is a very important element of actually getting them to the table of negotiations and seriously for them to consider stopping their aggression.

1:07:51As you know, the United States in recent weeks has been trying to restart peace talks involving Russia and Ukraine. They faltered since the early part of the year. But even with the possible financial pressure of these sanctions and new tariffs potentially on Russia, Will Russia agree to peace without Ukraine having to surrender territory? Well, it was never about particular territories or NATO or whatever other reasons Russia was putting on the table. I mean, they just attacked a country that did not belong to them and will never belong to them. But I believe that if we all are very resolute about sanctions, Russia will understand that there is no good solution for them and no good outcome for them out of this war.

1:08:36So, of course, there will be a very important element to help President Zelensky and Ukraine, as well as all of our partners, especially the U.S., who want to see peace, to convince Putin to stop, negotiate a solution, and move ahead. You are now, you're the former ambassador of Ukraine to the United States, but now you're back in Kiev. You're President Volodymyr Zelensky's advisor on Ukraine's reconstruction efforts. How great will the need be for international aid from all of your allies? And can you count on President Trump, who has been much more reluctant on this specific issue than his predecessor?

1:09:17Let me say this. The damage is huge, of course. And Russia destroyed a lot in Ukraine and continues to destroy it every day, attacking peaceful civilians, attacking business, including American business in Ukraine. But it's not just about aid to Ukraine. The reconstruction of Ukraine, the rebuilding of Ukraine is going to be the massive project that is going to be a win-win for not just Ukraine, but Europe and the U.S. This is where we can do something together and grow together. And also, Wolf, earlier in the program you discussed AI, you discussed what happens in the Middle East. Ukraine is a solution to so many global challenges with all the innovations that we have on the front lines and not only with all the resilience that our business shows that I don't think you can find anywhere on the globe not that we wanted that not that we would rather be a peaceful boring country not that but Ukraine has the solutions and is ready to share it with the world to make all of our friends and partners who believe in the same values stronger safer, and more prosperous.

1:10:21And that's exactly what we can do only together. As you know, President Trump has formally asked President Zelensky of Ukraine to stop Ukrainian military strikes on Russian diesel fuel, saying it's contributing to a global shortage. Ukraine is targeting Russia's energy to deprive the Kremlin's war machine of its fuel. Should President Zelensky, from your perspective, honor Trump's request? JANETA KAPOVSKY, UKRAINE, UKRAINE ALWAYS WAS FOR CISFIRES TO STOP THIS. WE ALWAYS AGREED AND WERE VERY CONSTRUCTIVE THROUGHOUT YEARS, ACTUALLY. REMEMBER THE FULL CISFIRE, THE ENERGY CISFIRE, ANY TYPE OF CISFIRE.

1:10:59IT'S RUSSIA THAT ALWAYS, EVEN WHEN THEY PRETENDED TO DO SOMETHING, NEVER AGREED AT THE END. SO, LOOK, UKRAINE IS NOT GOING TO BE A PROBLEM HERE. THE QUESTION IS, WILL RUSSIA STOP THEIR ATTACK? I MEAN, THIS WAR CAN BE ENDED very easy. Russia has to stop the aggression, get out from our country. But there's new pressure from the U.S. on Russia. Will it help convince the Russians to stop the war? Well, let's hope there will be more sanctions and there will be more supporting weapons to Ukraine that definitely will lead to a change in Russia's calculation. I know you'll be going back to Kiev in Ukraine soon, so just be careful and we'll stay in touch.

1:11:35Thank you, Wolf. Oksana Markarva, the former Ukrainian ambassador to the United States. Thanks very much for being here. All right. And coming up here in the Situation Room, where is my refund? We'll speak with a Democratic senator who wants to repeal and refund the president's 50 percent tariffs on Canada.

1:11:59Happening now, as the U.S.-Canada trade war impacts businesses on both sides of the border, two Democratic senators have introduced a bill that would repeal and refund President Trump's 50 percent tariffs on Canada. Here's what New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand said here in the Situation Room about the tariffs impacts. This new 50 % tariff is going to raise prices for New Yorkers on food, on clothing, on everyday household goods and on building materials, which again will increase the rate of housing and how much it costs to get a better apartment to rent or to buy a home. And so we are trying to repeal those tariffs immediately because what President Trump has done is illegal and creating massive chaos in the economy for everyday New Yorkers.

1:12:43All right, joining us now is Democratic Senator from Vermont, Peter Welch, and co-sponsor of the Bad Deal Act. You just heard from Senator Gillibrand there laying out some of the impacts she believes these tariffs are having on New York. Vermont shares a border with Canada. How are the impacts being felt in your state? You know, really, really brutal. Let me just be very specific. Jay Peak, it's five miles from the Canadian border. 40 % of the Canadian visitors are not coming. We've got a cheese company up there. It gets award-winning cheese. They have a million dollar piece of equipment at the border, but they're going to have to pay $500 ,000 more with these tariffs.

1:13:20We've got a company that makes snow moving equipment. They sell it for$500 ,000. They've lost sales to Canada because they have to add on$250 ,000. So this is just really, really brutal. And it's going to be$193 million hit to the Vermont economy. And looking at a larger scale here, Prime Minister Carney of Canada came out today and said that he is trying to strengthen ties with the EU. I wonder what your reaction is to that and how you think a stronger Canada-EU relationship would impact the U.S. It hurts us. You know, here's the thing. Number one, Donald Trump rightly bragged about the USMCA trade deal.

1:14:06He said it was the best ever. He's ripped it up. And now he's arbitrarily imposing these tariffs, which he does not have the authority to do. My Republican senator colleagues are absolutely opposed to these tariffs, but they just won't say it out loud. I mean, the Republicans have traditionally been low tax and no tariff. So what the president is doing is totally arbitrary. It's an expression of his, you know, impulsiveness. And it's doing real harm to us and to long-term damage with Canada. And now they start a partnership with the EU and leave us behind. Very, very, very destructive. And you mentioned your Republican colleagues.

1:14:46Republican Maine Senator Susan Collins has been very outspoken against these tariffs. But do you have the Republican support to pass this bill in the Senate? You know, I don't think we do. And that's really shame on the Republicans, because they're against the tariffs. And the decision that the Republicans have to make, and it's a tough one, is do they have such fear of Trump that they're not going to protect their own constituents from the damage of these tariffs? And they pay a price. I mean, look what happened to Senator Cassidy, what happened to Senator Cornyn. But bottom line, at a certain point, we have to stand up and protect the interests of the people we represent and not kowtow to a president who's out of control.

1:15:29I want to turn to AI. Obviously, that is very much a talk right now across party lines. You and some of your Democratic colleagues stressed the need for regulation after speaking with experts yesterday. Let's take a listen. I think it is basically insane, and I think most Americans would agree with me, that we allow the development of a dangerous technology that could escape human control. President Trump thinks it's just a race. I don't think that's right. It may be partly a race, but there's also a public responsibility to make sure that this technology does good and not harm. We can't be a Congress that just sits back on its butt and says, wow, this looks like a real problem.

1:16:15We are in the last minutes of being able to get some meaningful control. I'm wondering, Senator, do you think Congress members like yourself know enough about AI to make sure that these AI doomsday warnings don't become a reality? No, we don't. And that's why I think what we have to do, there was a good proposal by Amadoy where there are people who do know that have a seat at the table as the systems are being developed and they're there on behalf of the public. I also think the idea another person made of having like a regulatory agency, let's say the FDA for artificial intelligence is the way to go.

1:16:59You have to have experts, well-staffed, and the role of Congress is to absolutely assert that there has to be the public good that is part of the equation, not just the private profit of a few AI developers who disregard whatever is going to happen. So no, I don't think individual members don't have it, but that's where you have to have a regulatory agency, well-staffed, and experts. And what do you do about the threat of China and these open weight models from China? You can regulate here, but China's not necessarily going to give up on its race on the AI front. No, that's exactly right. And this is where it's troubling with President Trump just characterizing it as, quote, a race.

1:17:41There's got to be a real effort to have some cooperation with China, with the EU, when it comes to protecting the human control of this incredibly new technology. So we'll have to keep our eye on it. There was an effort also in the defense bill to allow the AI companies to work together to try to make certain that safeguards are in place. So there's a combination of competition at the companies that are developing this, but also cooperation where there has to be a role, I think, for the president to lead on that and for Congress to facilitate that. I want to ask you about something else. There was a hearing earlier this week with FBI Director Cash Battelle, and you got into a heated exchange with him over whether he'll send FBI agents to polling locations in November.

1:18:33I want us to all take a listen to this. Do you pledge that you will not in any way interfere in the will of the American people when they go to the polls in November? I pledge unequivocally that I will not participate in your charade of lies. What did you make of that answer? What I make of the answer is they're planning on doing whatever they can, including sending FBI agents to the polls to interfere in the outcome of the elections. I mean, what I point, I started that out by pointing out that President Trump in Ireland said that he won the 2020 election. He also said the only way Democrats can win is by cheating.

1:19:13So he's setting it up so that he can assert that an outcome in any of these 2026 elections that he doesn't like is rigged. And what he's got is Kash Patel in place to do his dirty work. He's got Todd Blanch in his place to do the dirty work. So this is a very, very urgent concern for the American people, Republican, Democrat, and Independent. It's those people are the citizens who have to decide not the president and his henchmen. I mean, we have seen the president do it before where he said an election was rigged when it clearly wasn't or he didn't have the evidence to support that. So how are you preparing for this possibility that he is setting the stage for the same kind of scenario again where a Republican could lose a race and he'll say it's rigged?

1:19:58What are you doing to prepare? Are you talking to Republican colleagues? What's happening behind the scenes? What we're doing behind the scenes is creating a nationwide network of legal help. Law firms are helping us because we are going to ultimately have to rely on the court. If there's a seizure of ballots, if there's a closure of a balloting place, if there's any things that are absolutely illegal interfering with the vote, we're going to have to get a court order in order to open it up and to remedy it and do it right away. So, we're getting the volunteer lawyers all around the country to be in a position to act and act promptly.

1:20:34But this is a dire situation. I mean, the president did this on January 6th, but he didn't have everybody in place in these extraordinary positions of power, director of the FBI, the United States Attorney General. This time he does. And we know that when President Trump says something as outlandish as that, that the only way Democrats can win is by a rigged election or cheating, we know he means it. So he's going to act. We're going to be ready. All right, Senator Peter Welch, thank you so much. Thank you. And thanks for me as well. And to all of our viewers, thanks very much for joining us this morning.

1:21:08You can always keep up with us on social media at Wolf Blitzer and at Pamela Brown CNN. We'll see you back here tomorrow morning and every weekday morning at 10 Eastern for two hours. Inside Politics with our friend and colleague Dan Abash starts after a quick break. Have a great rest of your day.

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