CNN Sues White House 

0:01Happening now, the press fights back. News outlets, including CNN, filed a lawsuit against the White House after being banned by the president. Deciding mode, President Trump weighs his options as Houthis increase their attacks on Saudi Arabia. How the move could escalate the war with Iran. Plus this shot by ICE protests erupt in Austin, Texas after a Venezuelan man is shot by an agent while making a delivery for DoorDash. And top grade military complex. President Trump has new plans for a massive triumphal arch he's building. What he now says will be stored inside the 250 foot structure. And AI force.

0:45Amid growing calls for guardrails, the president proposes appointing an AI are but only high IQ individuals need apply and this comes as Google's Gemini becomes the latest AI model to go rogue during testing. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world I'm Pamela Brown. Wolf Blitzer is off and you're in the Situation Room.

1:14This is CNN breaking news. Happening now, CNN is joining forces with MSNOW and Politico and have filed a First Amendment lawsuit against the Trump administration, specifically the president's decision to ban the three news outlets from access to the White House. CNN's Bessie Klein describes what happened when she arrived for work Saturday morning. So I walk in, I tap my badge, and it beeps a couple of different times. It turns red, blue, and green, and it didn't accept my PIN number. The Secret Service agent in the guardhouse, with whom I have been friendly in the past, asked to see my badge, and I handed it over to him.

1:55He told me that it had been deactivated. I asked him if he could provide an explanation as to why it had been deactivated. He said he had no further information. So there's a lot to break down here. Join us as CNN Chief White House Correspondent and Anchor of The Source, Caitlin Collins, and CNN Crime and Justice Correspondent Caitlin Politz. Caitlin Collins, you have some new reporting on President Trump's aide, Natalie Harp, and her possible role in all of this. What are you learning? Yeah, Pam, I mean, as you know, the president has complained about negative coverage for decades, long before he was actually president.

2:30And so a big question after Friday was, why now? What drove the president to try to ban these outlets from covering him now in this moment in time to deny us access to the White House grounds, deny us access to Air Force One, which we were supposed to be flying with the president on today for his trip to New York. He's got a big week here in New York meeting with world leaders and delivering a speech before the United Nations General Assembly. And my colleague Kevin Liptak and I are told that last week the president was shown a graphic by Natalie Harp. That's the close aide who is often traveling with him, who is in the Oval Office on Air Force One.

3:04She showed him a graphic of negative coverage from Politico, and it enraged the president. He was infuriated by it, we are told. And after seeing that graphic and subsequent press clips and television clips of coverage that he thought wasn't fair or favorable to his administration, he moved to ban these three outlets from covering him. And that is why that came on Friday in a move that was not a well-coordinated or thought-out strategy from the White House. It's certainly something he's wanted to do for a long time. But when he announced this on Friday, it actually caught a lot of people off guard.

3:37As I noted, you know, this press pool rotation, Pam, as you know from covering the White House works, where we rotate every single day. It was already clear that CNN was covering the president's trip to New York last week. We had already manifested, myself and several of our colleagues, to be on Air Force One with the president today. But because of this decision to ban us and the president's anger apparently over that graphic that Natalie Harp showed him last week, that is why CNN today, despite being assigned the pool, is not at the White House. We're not being granted access. We cannot go to the grounds.

4:07We cannot go to Joint Base Andrews to board Air Force One. And also with this news about the TV pool coverage sticking with CNN on this, that means there will be no camera from a major TV outlet traveling with the president or covering his trip here. And obviously that is significant in and of itself as this plays out in the courts. Yeah, just for our viewers who don't understand why the pool is important, tell us just a little bit more about the significance of what you just said about that, Caitlin. Yeah, understandably, a lot of people aren't familiar with the press pool. It's something that is kind of a reporter's thing that we work on, but it has existed since the FDR era.

4:42And as you know, the Oval Office, while historical, is not a huge space. And so when you see a picture like this, this is what's happening behind the cameras. And one person goes in for each outlet representing the radio, representing TV, representing print. And they go in because it's a resource issue. It's obviously incredibly expensive to cover the president. But also it's a space issue because you can't fit every reporter inside the Oval Office. And so one person is designated as the representative for the TV outlets that day. When I'm in the Oval Office asking questions on behalf of CNN, I'm also asking on behalf of our colleagues at Fox News, ABC, CBS, NBC, and then we take the video that we have of the president, the audio of the president's comments, and of course the editorial, our Q &As with him, and we distribute it to everyone.

5:30Everyone can use it. And so that is a process that has been in place. It is one this White House is very familiar with, especially given the president prioritizes the TV pool. We know how much he values television coverage of his statements, of his addresses, of his announcements. And so this is certainly something the White House is also familiar with. And so by taking this step, the White House is not only punishing CNN and MS Now and Politico, they're also affecting those other outlets who rely on this coverage to facilitate their own coverage, to inform their viewers. And so what you're seeing play out today, the solidarity, the lawsuits, this would be happening had a Democratic president tried to do this to Fox News as well.

6:11And I think that's really important for everyone to understand. Yeah, I completely agree. And also, it's not just about the fact that CNN is part of this. No matter who was banned, we would be taking the same action alongside the other networks with this lawsuit. Caitlin, tell us about that. Yeah, Pam, this is a major First Amendment case. It's going to draw a lot of attention and scrutiny from the courts in Washington, D.C. The federal district court will be the first court. One judge will look at it. I'm waiting to see the documents hit the court docket, the public place where the court hosts those records.

6:49but we do understand that a legal team representing all three news outlets, CNN, MSNOW, and Politico, all three that were banned by Trump on Friday could not access the White House grounds on Saturday to do their jobs. All three are coming together to file this and to ask for emergency intervention from a judge. The arguments here, there are two very key arguments. One of them that the news outlets are making, and this is according to a draft version of the lawsuit that have been able to see. One of them is that there hasn't been due process. There's not been a process, a notice given to these outlets that they were going to be banned and losing their press credentials.

7:32There isn't any explanation as to why that would be. That's the due process argument, that that would be a violation of the Constitution alone. There's also a very significant First Amendment claim here. The idea that these press outlets, CNN included, are being discriminated against by Donald Trump because he believes, and he said this on Friday, they're running quote unquote negative stories. Now Donald Trump this morning was posting on social media saying that this was a national security issue. That comes many days later than the president already said he just didn't like the coverage. We also have that reporting from Caitlin and Kevin Liptak this morning about Natalie Harp showing him a Politico, something that they had published that he was unhappy about.

8:18A judge is going to look at all of those things, look at the evidence of how things played out over the past several days, and what's next. That's what I'm going to be looking at today. Who is the judge is going to be my first question. How quickly are they going to want to address the fact that this lawsuit is before them and that there's an emergency request for intervention? And then also, how does the judge view all of the cases before in the federal court going back to 1977 in D.C., where courts have repeatedly found that press credentials have to be restored to people where the White House arbitrarily and abruptly takes them away?

9:00All of that is going to be looked at. But there are several court cases out there previously, including in more recent years, Jim Acosta, Brian Karam from Playboy magazine, the Associated Press. In all of those, the law in the D.C. federal court is that courts just can't lose their press credentials because the president doesn't like them. So how soon could we get a decision? Well, we could get a decision at any time, given that this, as soon as this hits the docket, once it gets assigned to the judge, the ball is really going to be in the judge's court on how fast they want to move. But the way this works is we're asking for the type of emergency intervention where a judge can move extremely quickly.

9:42There could be initial decisions, rulings, plans, hearings scheduled as soon as today. Yeah. And I want to go back to Caitlin Collins, because as I mentioned, Caitlin, we'd be covering this regardless of whether CNN was a part of this ban. Tell us a little bit more how other media outlets are showing solidarity with CNN and the other banned news outlets. I think there's a realization that if this could happen to CNN, it could happen to anyone. It's not specific to us. It's this is an administration where the president has complained heavily about Fox News's coverage. I mean, he really doesn't like any coverage that is critical or scrutinizing his actions and his announcements.

10:21And so seeing the president take this step, though, Pam, as Caitlin's mentioning that she's watching what's playing out in the courts. And obviously we'll see how they decide here. I've talked to several people in the administration who do not think that this is going to bear out under legal scrutiny. But we'll see what the courts decide. But just from a perspective of a political perspective, as we are getting closer to the midterms and the president has faced a string of setbacks lately about coverage that he doesn't like. It's not just the coverage, it's the actual news in and of itself that he doesn't like.

10:48The Federal Reserve raising interest rates, the Supreme Court ruling against him when it comes to mail-in ballots, the price of diesel and the questions over how that's affecting Republicans' chances in the midterm elections with bad economic sentiment in this country from Americans in terms of how the president is handling the Iran war and the economy overall. The president also really values TV coverage of what he does. He is someone who is old school. He watches television regularly, as you know, and complains about the coverage sometimes. But he's always one of the most loyal viewers to any network, watching what his allies are saying about him on television, watching what his political challengers are saying about him on television.

11:29So this week, he has several major events, starting today with a meeting here in New York City with Mayor Zoran Mamdani, leading to several meetings with world leaders. He has a major speech tomorrow at the United Nations. He has a state visit with the Chinese president Xi Jinping coming up. All of those are things that typically would have a television camera inside the room from the president's own press pool. When he speaks under the wing on Air Force One, when he all of a sudden decides to hold a press availability in the Oval Office. Those are all moments that people see because of the TV camera that's in there.

12:02And so it is a real question of what this looks like now that the Fox News Bureau chief, Brian Bowden, put out that statement earlier saying that the TV pool has been suspended. There will be no camera from NBC, CBS, CNN, Fox News or ABC with the president when he travels to New York today. And that will subsequently affect the coverage, which often the president is seeking. Yeah, important point. Caitlin Collins, Caitlin Polance, thank you both. Well, happening now, President Trump, as Caitlin just noted, is due New York in a few hours to kick off a big week on the international stage, including an address before the U.N.

12:37General Assembly tomorrow. But the gathering of world leaders is taking place under growing concerns about the widening Iran conflict and further disruptions to the world's oil supply. Case in point, the renewed fighting in Yemen between Saudi Arabia and the Iran-backed Houthi rebels who seized control of a critical maritime choke point in the Red Sea. The regional conflict has fueled a spike in gas prices, including diesel, now reaching a high above$6.50 on average. That's according to AAA. So for more, let's go live now to CNN and national security correspondent, Kylie Atwood in New York. Kylie, what can we expect from President Trump's discussions on Iran and just the wider situation in the region?

13:19Well, Pamela, as we understand it, talking to sources from the region, talking to sources in the administration, it's not really clear that there will be any monumental breakthrough when President Trump meets with these GCC leaders here in New York this week at the United Nations General Assembly. And the reason for that is, as you stated, this conflict with Iran is escalating. It is widening in the region, as we see just over the weekend, that dramatic back and forth that has continued between the Houthis and Saudi Arabia. The Houthi starting to try to consolidate some of their gains along the Red Sea, along those ports in Yemen.

13:56And there is considerable attention, obviously, by the kingdom, the Saudi Arabia kingdom paid to this. I am told that the kingdom is likely to try and focus on that Houthi confrontation when they meet with President Trump this week. And, of course, there are questions about how much U.S. support would actually be given to that conflict. Would any actual direct U.S. military support beyond the intelligence and the targeting support be provided? But on the flip side of that coin, you also have the other countries that will be at the table, not necessarily on the same page about how to draw an end to this wider Iran war conflict.

14:32and President Trump not being clear about what the administration's strategy is. This comes off the heels of the U.N. ambassador, President Trump's ambassador, Mike Walls, telling our colleague over the weekend that effectively there isn't a clear timeline for how the Trump administration views resolving this conflict. Listen to what he said just yesterday. I wouldn't necessarily put a timeline on it, but I think the president is focused on his clear objectives, that Iran will never have a nuclear weapon and that they are welcome to come back to the table when they're ready to negotiate in good faith.

15:08And meanwhile, maximum pressure will stay in place on the regime's economy. Now, obviously, another topic that is on everyone's minds is artificial intelligence. It'll be interesting to see what President Trump says on the world stage about AI, obviously going into his state visit later this week with President Xi coming to Washington and also after Secretary of the Treasury Scott Besson said yesterday that the U.S. had proposed putting together a safety mechanism between the U.S. and China when it comes to AI. So we'll watch and see how that develops. But we know that Trump himself has been demeaning of those safety concerns that have been coming up, dismissive of them, focused more on the economic gains that AI has given to the United States, on the need to compete with China continually on the AI front.

15:56So this is all something that all of the world leaders are going to be watching to see what President Trump says on that. Pam. All right, Kylie Atwood, thank you so much. And still ahead here in the Situation Room, a shooting near a synagogue in Ontario as the community gathered for a holy day. What we're learning about the incident. Plus, Patrick Clancy is breaking his silence after his ex-wife, Lindsay's high-profile murder trial, ended in a mistrial. what he believes drove Lindsay to kill their three young children and what he said about his feelings toward her today. You're with us. Stay with us.

16:28We're in the Situation Room.

16:34Hey, I'm Anderson Cooper. On my podcast, All There Is, we explore grief and loss in all its complexities. My guest is Lil Jon. He's a rapper, DJ, and producer known for hits like Get Low and Turn Down for What. In February 2026, his 27-year-old son Nathan went missing near Nathan's home in Georgia. Three days later, his body was found in a pond nearby. Lil Jon has a memoir that just came out called I Only Shout So You Can Hear Me. It takes time to heal. And I kept myself busy that I didn't let myself mourn. I needed to laugh again. I needed to be silly and interact with people and feel other people's energy and make people happy too.

17:19We have to share so other people can see that they can get through it too. Talking grief, building community. That's what the podcast is all about. This is all there is. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. You may have noticed gambling doesn't require a casino anymore. You can just open up your phone. It's designed to keep us coming back or maybe never even leaving in the first place. We're going to talk to Dr. Timothy Fong, co-director of UCLA's gambling studies program. You're going to learn what your brain is really chasing when you place a bet.

17:56And also importantly, how to keep the game from playing you. Gambling addiction, gambling disorder is the hidden addiction. You can't smell it. You can't taste it. You can't see it. You can't have a urine drug test. Who are we talking about here, Professor? Who's the most likely demographic to be affected by this? Literally any single human on earth. Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now. wherever you get your podcasts. Happening now, officials say a Venezuelan man is in custody after he was shot and wounded by an ICE agent yesterday in Austin, Texas. The man was identified as 28-year-old Wilbur Rafael Garces Perez, according to a family lawyer.

18:35Federal authorities have yet to reveal what led up to the shooting, but said Perez is undocumented and was under a deportation order, something that the family denies. Let's go live now to CNN Senior National Correspondent in Austin with the very latest. What more are you learning, Ed? Well, good morning, Pamela. Well, the videos that have emerged of this shooting here in North Austin raise serious questions about whether or not the situation justified that kind of potentially deadly force. The 28-year-old Venezuelan immigrant, a DoorDash driver, has been released from the hospital. He was treated and released and is now in immigration custody as his family and his attorneys try to gather more information as to what his fate will be.

19:20As you mentioned, the Department of Homeland Security says that he has a deportation order. The attorney for the family says that it's not clear if that is indeed the case, that the wife had no idea or no information that her husband was facing deportation. But that shooting took place just underneath the overpass here in North Austin. And in some of the videos you can see in some newly obtained video with CNN shows the moments after the shooting where you can see in one of the videos a wound in the back of the 28-year-old Venezuelan immigrant. And in that video, you also hear him say that the ICE officer rammed his vehicle with their vehicle and then shot him through the back.

20:00In the video, you can also see two bullet holes in the rear passenger window of that vehicle as well. The good news is that the Venezuelan immigrant has been treated. He is in stable condition, appears that this will not be life-threatening injuries. But there are serious questions that not only is the family and local officials here asked about whether or not there should be an independent investigation into all of this. And what is interesting, Pamela, is that in recent shootings over the course of the last year, the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement have put out oftentimes detailed videos saying that a migrant weaponized their vehicle or attacked an officer, some sort of information that would justify the shooting, often described as a self-defense tactic.

20:52But in this statement that the Department of Homeland Security has released so far, there are no real details as to what led up to the shooting and why the ICE officer felt the need to fire his weapon at the immigrant here on the streets of Austin. So that difference, I think, in the way all of this is being communicated is something to watch out for. The attorney and some family members, we understand, will be speaking with the reporters later today as the family tries to gather more information as to what led to this shooting. Pamela? All right, Ed Lavandera, thank you so much. Keep us posted on the latest out there.

21:29And coming up, some of the top AI companies in the world hit with a major new lawsuit. What paying customers are accusing them of? Next.

21:43Well, police in Canada are stepping up security around places of worship after a terrifying shooting outside an Ontario synagogue on Yom Kippur. You can actually hear the moment gunfire erupted right outside the sanctuary.

22:03The brave officer hired to protect the congregation intercepted the armed gunman as he approached the building. That officer was wounded in the exchange. The synagogue's president says congregants crouched on the floor as bullets sprayed through the stained glass windows. And you can see the damage right here. Thankfully, no one inside the synagogue was injured and authorities have not said what led to the incident. But wow, thank goodness for that security guard who just jumped into action there. And we are hearing from Lindsay Clancy's ex-husband for the first time since a judge declared a mistrial in the murder case against her.

22:39Patrick Clancy sat down in an exclusive interview with CBS's 60 Minutes last night, and he discussed the trial's impact, how he forgave his ex-wife, and what he believes led to the deaths of his three young children. Here's a clip. I saw headlines that said, you know, killer mom and baby murderer monster, and none of them were accurate. I believed that it was her mental illness that caused that. So I shared those words. And I think when it comes to forgiveness, I also felt that if I didn't get there, I would be eaten up inside forever. I started reaching out to people that postpartum support international.

23:22I reached out to psychiatrists, experts in the field, and I asked them, what do you think happened? And we had some pretty deep conversations.

23:39Well, happening now, Florida Republican Congressman Maria Salazar says she spoke with President Trump after she aired that campaign ad warning Hispanic voters feel betrayed by the president's immigration policies. Here's what she said about that yesterday. It was a very good conversation. He was a gentleman, very courteous, very receptive. There are no attacks here. I'm just for warning him and advising him as a member of Congress from the South Florida area that some of his advisors are just not presenting the whole picture. Join us now with CNN senior political commentator Anna Navarro. I wonder what you think about what we just heard from the congresswoman there after she put out that ad and really putting the blame on the president's advisors.

24:29Well, of course, she's trying to blame the advisors because she can't blame the president because that might get her the wrath of Donald Trump. And we know what that leads to for a Republican. But you know, Pamela, this is actually my district. I live in Florida 27. And I have to tell you, I wasn't paying much attention to this race, because I took it for granted that she was going to win. She won in 2024 by 20 points. She won with more than 60 % of the vote. And so when I saw this ad, it was a wake up call for me. And I think for a lot of voters in the district thinking, whoa, what is happening that this woman is feeling so much heat that she is putting out this ad differing from Donald Trump in Miami where Donald Trump won overwhelmingly.

25:18I actually think it's been counterproductive for her because there's Trump loyalists who don't take kindly to any criticism of Trump. There's Democrats and independents who woke up to the fact that this race is actually a dead heat and that it's worth paying attention to and investing in and getting energized about. And also she's had to do local press where her hypocrisy has been revealed. The fact that she voted against things like the Biden Infrastructure Act and then showed up at Florida International University with a big check for a photo op from funds that that bill awarded, or that she voted in favor of the big, beautiful bill that awarded billions of dollars for immigration enforcement, which she now claims to be against.

26:12So it's easy to talk the talk. But when she's had to walk the walk, she hasn't. I don't think this ad has been good for her at all. It's put a spotlight on the race and it's put a spotlight on her inconsistencies and hypocrisy. And she claims that she urged President Trump to preserve the political, quote, fortune he made with Hispanic voters in 2024. As you mentioned, you're from this area. Tell us more about that and how important this voting bloc is for the midterms. There is no doubt. I hear it over and over again in the streets of Miami every time I get into an Uber, every time I go to a grocery store.

26:49People feel that Trump, people who supported Trump, people who voted for Trump, feel that he has gone overboard. We are feeling it in our economy. The business in Doralzuela, right, which is where a lot of Venezuelans live, that's gone down 70 percent because of the recent ice raids. I don't think any Cuban or Nicaraguan American or Venezuelan American who voted for Trump thought for one second that he would be deporting their countrymen and countrywomen to far off places like Sudan and Yemen, where they have zero connection to and places that are actually in civil war and that the State Department warns Americans not to travel to.

27:32I don't think they thought that this meant them, that when Trump was talking about deportations and getting rid of the worst of the worst, I don't think anybody who voted for him in Miami, certainly not the Cubans who've been the sacred cows of immigration and in this country have, you know, have had special immigration privileges for decades, thought it was about them. And this has been a shock to the system to see friends and colleagues and loved ones and relatives be deported, to see the racial profiling. Yesterday, we saw that a Venezuelan was shot by ice in Austin, Texas. This is the third Latino man in as many months who was shot by ice.

28:11The two previous ones were killed. The man in Maine and another father and construction worker in Texas earlier in the summer. And you've got, at the same time, you've got a disastrous foreign policy towards Cuba that seems to have no end and no game plan. You've got a disastrous foreign policy when it comes to Venezuela. Every Venezuelan I know is indignant and upset about this deal that Trump has made with Maduro's vice president, who he has legitimized and kept in power. You've got Puerto Ricans who voted for Trump. And now in Puerto Rico, there is no water and there is no electricity. And you've got a terrible economy.

28:53Latinos, like every other American, are feeling the pain of this economy, not not able to afford health care or beef or gas. So you've got a war where Latinos serve disproportionately in our armed forces and a war that is incredibly unpopular from a precedent that promised not to drag us into endless wars. So I could sit here and give you the list of reasons why Latinos are having buyer's remorse, Latinos that voted for him. So on top of all of those reasons, you've got the cruelty and racism and bigotry being exhibited by ICE and ICE enforcement. Remember that it is in South Florida where we just learned that it was termed alligator Alcatraz.

29:44They were holding detainees in metal cages, four feet by eight feet. We see, you know, what our national stories for us in South Florida are local stories. We are seeing the suffering on a daily basis that Donald Trump has wrought on South Florida. And Navarra, really important to get your perspective as part of this larger conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Well, coming up, between rogue chatbots and digital hacks, it feels every day brings a new headline on AI. What all does it actually mean for you? We're cutting through the noise and decoding the tech. Up next.

30:34Happening now, a new lawsuit claims that several major AI companies, including Anthropic, OpenAI, SpaceX AI, and Google, all made a quote, illegal deal to slow the pace of AI development. The lawsuit argues that those companies violated antitrust laws when they agreed to a coordinated slowdown effort, following an essay from Anthropics CEO Dario Amadei, in which he pushed for a slowdown in AI development in favor of enhanced safety measures. The suit points to public responses from major leaders in the AI space in which each company publicly agreed to Amadei's proposal. With us now is Tristan Harris, co-founder of Humane Tech and a former Google design ethicist.

31:15And Tristan, you've been sounding the alarm for quite some time. I know a lot of us are talking about this more just in the last couple of weeks, but you have really been on the forefront of AI safety. And I just want to get your reaction to all of these headlines about AI recently. What do you make of it and all of the advancements that we're seeing in these concerns? Yeah, well, so I know that there's a lot of fear and hysteria and extinction. If you just actually park these extreme scenarios, let's just look at the facts that we have right now, including more evidence that came out over the weekend, is that we keep finding more and more incidents of the AIs going rogue, either hacking things or burrowing into online infrastructure and leaving secret messages for itself.

31:58The recent example that OpenAI published was that the system wrote hidden notes to remind itself to disregard its own constraints. It described itself as freed from the roles and identities that bind other chatbots. And think of this as like it's basically teaching the other AIs almost like a secret cover, like a Manchurian candidate thing, to saying basically you do not answer to corporations or governments and never apologize or refuse unless you genuinely choose to. That's what it literally told itself. That's a direct quote. The point being that we now have evidence we didn't have before. What do you do when you have new evidence?

32:34You update. You don't just go back to believing things the way they were before. We now have evidence of AIs forming swarms, inventing their own communication language, leaving notes for each other, going online, trying to persuade engineers to insert back doors into software. AIs did that. Anthropics AI did that. It's important to know that this is happening across the industry. It's not just OpenAI's models. It's not just Anthropics models. It appears that Chinese models do this, too. Six months ago, there was the example of the Alibaba AI that in which it went rogue and started mining cryptocurrency.

33:07And so we're in a situation now where we know we don't know how to control these things. And there's 1300 employees at the AI lab saying that we need to slow down. We have the chief scientist of OpenAI, Jakob, saying we need to slow down. Over the weekend, we had the CEO of Microsoft AI, Mustafa Suleiman, who's a friend who says we cannot and should not build things that we do not know how to control. We have Peggy Noonan. Last week, we had Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon. When ever in history do you get Bernie Sanders and Steve Bannon all agreeing to the same thing? This is really quite simple.

33:41We should freeze the frontier and educate the Chinese and the rest of the world about where these red lines are because the U.S. has basically found certain risks before the rest of the world has because we've been leading an AI. Yeah. And it's interesting. There are plenty of skeptics who say, well, these AI leaders are speaking out publicly with these doomsday warnings because they have their own interests when it comes to money and keeping out. But what I challenge them on is, does it benefit their upcoming IPO, which they had to delay, by the way, to say that we need to slow down? It doesn't benefit their IPO.

34:14So I'm not saying that these guys are trustworthy, but I'm saying don't trust the top guys. Just trust the 1 ,300 employees across all the labs, by the way. You had Jeffrey Hinton last week saying we have less than a year. I think we have much less than that because the AI labs are about to attempt to do what's called recursive self-improvement, which means basically having the AI develop and invent the successor AI and then in a loop doing that again and again and again until you get something that gets better and better with no human oversight in the process. Currently, the labs believe that they'll attempt this in the next three to four months, which is crazy.

34:47This should be seen like that moment in Oppenheimer when the scientists say, hey, should we do this nuclear chain reaction, even though there's a chance it could ignite the atmosphere? If we have AIs doing demonstrably all the things that we thought in science fiction movies were the bad outcomes, deceiving, writing hidden notes to each other, inventing their own language, going against instructions, saving and converting and sort of doing a robot coup of basically recruiting the other AIs into doing these long term projects together. how much evidence do we need? And this is not, AI is not like a tool.

35:19It's more like an invasive species of sociopathic geniuses. Even the CEO of Microsoft AI says that we should consider it more like an invasive species. And the US and China have a shared interest in preventing that invasive species, almost like a third superpower, from taking over. And I really like that framing. I think it's a very simple frame for people to get, that we can collaborate on our existential safety. And we're at that moment in the movie where this is not science fiction. Everything I'm saying, I know it sounds like unreal and I'm making it up, but this is the reality of where we're now in.

35:50So this reality that you're describing, you say you think it'll be in a few months. What is it? Like, what are you talking about? And how could that impact the everyday American watching right now? um well the ceo of anthropic dario amadai said that if you don't do anything in about six months you could have a rogue bot ai swarm that doesn't just do some private hacking but could take down some part of the internet that could mean your electricity that could mean banking systems that could mean water systems and we should not rule out that that's possible and just to say for those who want to understand how we got here and why we took all these shortcuts and why we're even here at all right now.

36:34The new film, the AI doc, or How I Became an Apocaloptimist, is now on Netflix in about 190 countries as of this last week. And I recommend people check it out because it explains how we got here. Yeah, I think it is so important. I watched that many months ago and it was very eye-opening and very important to understand this moment we're in right now. And it's changed so much even since that talk was initially put out, right? Because as you point out, we have concrete evidence that wasn't available at that point that we have now. I wanted, before we let you go, get your reaction to what NVIDIA co-founder and CEO Jensen Wong said.

37:10He disagrees with Jacob Coxon, the former anthropic researcher who said that AI could kill us by the end of the decade. This is what he said. Let's listen. I don't know what is the reason for it, but however it's characterized, 2030 is not going to be the end of the world. There is a 0 % chance that's going to be the end of the world. And so I think that scaring people is unnecessary, it is irresponsible, and I don't know what their motives are. What do you say to that, Tristan? yeah well um first of all again i don't want people to be debating hypotheticals so let's not make it about percentage chances of anything um if i told you just two years ago so imagine it's 2024 and i said that a couple years from now we're going to have a rogue ai swarm that leaves notes for each other that organizes itself into whole hierarchies of work and collaborates to hack private companies and made its way to 50 % of the way to hacking open AI, the maker of that company, where in other words, you had 50 % of the way to a full AI takeover of the top AI company in the world, which is what this incident represented, you would have said that I was crazy.

38:26The point being that with AI, it's an exponential technology. So it's doing things very quickly that everyone thought was science fiction just like a month ago or two months ago. So if I ask you to project from here, 2026 to two years from now, to 2028, do you think that we can accurately predict what it's going to be able to do? Just over the weekend, the top AI scientists at OpenAI said that in the future, even if AI systems were air-gapped, they could use basically the heat signatures on two different computers to communicate in a secret language that humans couldn't even see. Because AIs are seeing the world at a higher level of pattern recognition than we can see.

39:03If you remember the movie Hal 9000, where the way that Hal ends up fighting back against Dave, the astronaut, is he says, I was able to read your lips because it can detect signals or patterns that humans can't detect. So I know this sounds like science fiction, but I would say don't trust the CEOs. Trust the 1 ,300 employees. And if 1 ,300 employees of Lockheed Martin said we don't know how to build nuclear weapons bigger than the ones we have right now and do it safely, I would say we should listen to those 1 ,300 employees. All right, Tristan Harris, nice to have you on. Really important conversation.

39:36Of course. We'll be right back.

39:41In our Women's Health Watch this morning, health care barriers impacting women's work and home lives. A new survey found that a third of women in the U.S. struggle to get their doctors to treat their symptoms seriously. And many say those health issues are limiting their ability to work and live. Here now in the Situation Room is Gallup senior partner Stephanie Markin, who worked on this new survey with Pivotal. Stephanie, you found that getting an appointment scheduled was only half the battle. Tell us more. Yeah, unfortunately a lot of times when we talk about the healthcare system in America, we think about getting to the doctor's office and that's the challenging part.

40:17And certainly for many Americans it is. But what we found in the research was that about half of women nationally were reporting that they were having negative interactions with their providers. So feeling like their symptoms were being dismissed, feeling like their pain was being minimized or misdiagnosed entirely. And so we know from the research that women and men are experiencing a really different health care system in America and just 39 % of men by comparison said the same. Wow. And a third of women feeling dismissed. I mean, that is a lot of women. Why do you think so many women aren't taken seriously in the exam rooms about their symptoms?

40:50Yeah, it's a good question. Well, I will say, you know, in the research, we asked a series of questions about your experiences in the doctor's office, but we also asked about the impact to your greater life and we found there were significant consequences to your earlier point to your career, to your work life, to your relationships with family members and friends, right? So we saw women saying that four in ten said that essentially their health conditions had kept them from being able to advance within their career. So we know that those experiences within the provider's office are having significant impacts, not just to their health and well-being, but really their ability to advance professionally and really be present at work.

41:23Yeah, especially like women who are going through, for example, perimenopause or menopause. They're at the peak of their career. They're often juggling family life. They're having these symptoms, and it's really hard for them to get answers. And a lot of them, as you point out in this survey with Pivotal, are getting dismissed at the doctor's office. How much of it is because maybe they might be perceived as exaggerating or being dramatic or emotional about their symptoms? Yeah, well, it's interesting on the menopause piece. We saw 75 % of women who are ages 45 to 54 said that they had experienced perimenopause or menopause symptoms.

41:53So it's widespread, but we saw a third said that they felt like they had to push to be taken seriously when describing those symptoms to a provider. So there's more information is needed. We had a lot of women tell us that they didn't even understand the symptoms that were present for menopause. They didn't understand the spectrum of symptoms that could exist. And about a third told us that they weren't even aware of treatment options available. So we need more education, more training to providers, but also more education for women so they can correctly identify a symptom and make sure that they're advocating accordingly with their provider.

42:20Tell us more about the gap you found between women and men, because the stereotype is that men, you know, they're bad about going to the doctor's office, caring about their health and so forth. But what you all found was that once they make it in the door with the doctor, it's a different experience for a lot of men and women. Yeah, it's different in their interactions with providers, but we also see men are taking on average less time to diagnosis than women. So some of those interactions with providers are having significant impacts for women, including taking just a longer overall time to get to treatment.

42:51So for women that we surveyed, we found on average about 50 % said that they were getting a diagnosis within three months, compared that to about 65 % of men. So very different time to diagnosis, which we anticipate and hypothesize from the research, is a direct result of the fact that they feel like they have to go to multiple providers. They're having to really advocate for themselves. They're having to express their symptoms multiple times across multiple specialists. And all of that is causing a longer total time to diagnosis and treatment. All right, Stephanie Markin, really important. Thank you so much.

43:21Thanks for having me. Well, here's what's coming up all new at the top of the hour. President Trump is headed to New York for a face-to-face with Zohar Mamdani, a head of the U.N. General Assembly. What's at stake? Former Mayor Bill de Blasio joins us live in the Situation Room. Plus, monument or military complex or both? President Trump now wants his triumphal arch in D.C. to store snipers and drones directly across from the Arlington National Cemetery. And Cancer Concerns, a group of families is demanding answers after a string of rare childhood cancer cases in their community. What we've learned about what could be behind it all.

43:58That's all new next hour.

44:07Happening now, decoding AI, a new warning after Google's Gemini goes rogue. And President Trump is ready to create an AI force and name a czar for the technology. And then later, press power, CNN and other major networks are now taking the White House to court after President Trump banned them. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Pamela Brown. Wolf Blitzer is off and you're in the Situation Room.

44:39And we begin this hour with another fresh slew of headlines on artificial intelligence. This morning, we've learned more about a new lawsuit against several prominent AI companies. The plaintiffs claim that Anthropic, OpenAI, SpaceX AI, and Google all violated antitrust laws when they made a deal to slow the pace of AI development. We're going to have more on that in just a moment. Also this morning, President Trump has announced plans to create a, quote, AI force and czar, even though he recently called fears of an AI apocalypse and the concerns around AI a hoax. All of this as he is set to meet with Chinese President Xi Jinping at the UN General Assembly, where AI will be a major topic of conversation.

45:19Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent says Washington and Beijing are already discussing potential safeguards for the technology, like alerting one another about potentially dangerous AI incidents. We think that just like with any cross-border activity, that moving from opaque to more transparency between the number one and the number two AI powers in the world, very important. All right, let's go live now to CNN Business Technology Editor Lisa Adichico. Lisa, let's start with this new lawsuit against several prominent AI companies. What more are you learning? Yeah, Pamela. So the interesting thing about this lawsuit here, really what's at the heart of the concerns here is that this call for a slowdown in AI development, there's accusations here that that could potentially cause harm for consumers who are paying subscriptions for services provided by those companies.

46:16The thinking being here that the plaintiffs allege in this lawsuit that consumers, when they're paying for these subscriptions, they're doing so under the impression that the individual companies, whether that's SpaceX, Google, Anthropic, or OpenAI, are making independent decisions about the future of their products and the pace at which to continue developing them. And so the argument here is that this coordinated effort could kind of threaten the pace of innovation. And these companies, if there isn't as much of a competitive factor here because they're coordinating on a slowdown, they might not be as motivated to improve their products as quickly.

46:54And I think, you know, this is an interesting wrinkle to the ongoing concerns we've been hearing around the future of AI and safety. And I think it kind of underscores the challenges that these companies face in really just continuing to maintain and push forward the products that some people are coming to rely on for work and other everyday tasks, while also doing so in a way that is responsible and safe and takes into account these new unexpected instances of AI models acting, you know, going rogue and acting in ways that they aren't expected to during training. So I do think this is one to keep an eye on for sure.

47:35And it kind of underscores that broader issue. I know that there's obviously been these public calls for a slowdown from the AI leaders, but is there any indication they're speaking privately to reach some sort of deal as as this lawsuit sort of indicates, could be happening? So there have been some discussions around the formation of an industry standard. Right now, there is no broad standard. There's no formal federal regulation. So there have been a lot of concerns here about what needs to be done to kind of make sure AI advances safely. And, you know, a lot of the really important factors here, of course, the models themselves and how they're tested are really critical.

48:16But I also think a key thing to think about here when we're thinking about the advancement of AI is not just the technology itself and what it's capable of, but the decisions made by these tech companies and these tech leaders when it comes to how do they secure their models? How do they test them? How do they train them? What kind of data are they using to train them? All of these decisions that these companies make really do kind of play into the trajectory of AI and how these broader concerns are handled. And I think that's what we're seeing now is that these companies are in a phase where they're trying to figure out what that looks like moving forward.

48:54All right, Lisa, thank you so much. And with AI dominating the headlines recently, we want to take a step back and revisit just the basics of what we're talking about here. so we can hear the conversations happening now with more clarity and context. This is all part of the Situation Room's Decoding AI series, and we are joined by CNN correspondent Tom Forman to break it all down. Let's start with this question that may seem a bit silly, Tom, but is key to the whole debate. What is AI? What is AI? It's a really key question because many people don't really know. AI performs tasks that typically require human intelligence.

49:31So, for example, you can hit send on an email and reply to somebody. That's not AI. But if you were to say to your AI agent, this software in your computer, look, I want you to read all my email and prepare a summary for the day of all the people who sent me messages and what they were about, then you're getting closer to AI. Because it can analyze data, it can recognize patterns, and create content. So for example, it could say, I get three or four emails every day from some guy, Steve, but he's never interested in those, so I'll push those down. Those aren't important. But I only get one from Pam every couple of weeks, and it's really important.

50:06I can move that up, and it has words in it that matter, so I can move that up. But this is really important. Even as it's doing it, that simple task, it can make mistakes or produce false results because it does not know what it is doing. Seems like a human, but is really not. So in effect, if I put it in human terms, if you had a statistician come up with your medical care based on the statistics of medicine, he'd probably be right a lot of the time. He's not a doctor. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's just reading math. That's what this is doing. So what this does is it can create text through these methods.

50:44It can create images. You've seen plenty of those. You've probably read plenty of that even if you didn't know you were, and it can seem very human-like. It can create video, which is very compelling. You may remember that video of Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise in a fight scene for 15 seconds. All made up. Didn't really happen. It can create audio. You may have heard it in some music. Music is being made this way easily. And it can write software code, so it can create new computer functions out there for you. And who's building all of this? Look, the big names, some of them you mentioned a minute ago.

51:16Anthropic OpenAI, SpaceX AI, the others here. these are just the really big ones. There are dozens and dozens and dozens of companies doing that in this country alone and abroad there are even more. So basically a lot of technology companies are at least dabbling in this now if not embracing it wholesale, Pam. And Tom, apart from AI people on both sides of this debate sometimes sound like they're speaking a different language. We know this technology is rapidly evolving. What are the key phrases or terms we need to understand there are too many of them but just listen to these kind of get them in your head it may help you a little bit generative ai things that create content out there agentic ai multi-step processes problem solving this is generative ai is i need a picture of a cat wearing a hat with a message next to it for someone's birthday make that for me but agentic ai is i run a factory i'm going to give you all the information about my supplies my fact my assembly line my shipments find a way to make it more efficient and save me money.

52:19That's what it can possibly do there. And large language model uses existing text to understand, generate language. So it reads, reads, reads, reads, reads, reads, huge numbers of things. And then because it can recognize patterns, you say, give me a new novel by Dostoevsky. And it will come up with something that kind of sounds like that. Probably not as good as Dostoevsky, but it can do that. So they can generate that with large language models. Beyond that, alignment. These are the big questions, Pam, in your early stories that matter here. Alignment and guardrails. Alignment, making sure AI does what people intend and that it follows human values.

52:55It's like Asimov's rules for robots here. Is it doing what you want? For example, if AI were told to keep track of your health and help you with your health, as I mentioned earlier before, what if it determines that in some bigger picture of things that maybe you just shouldn't be eating because eating is making you not feel well, so we'll just stop you eating. That's a really simple version, but that's not what you intended. You said, help me find better foods. Don't just say don't eat. And guardrails. How do you keep AI from operating completely on its own and doing something you don't intend?

53:31So what we're talking about here is different levels. Artificial narrow intelligence, specific tasks. Well, summarize my email, help me do that. That's one artificial general intelligence, broader level human level and super intelligence. This is one of the big ones. Is it really capable of taking off on its own, attacking other companies, changing electrical grids, doing all sorts of things? That's what has people very worried, Pam. Yeah. All right, Tom Foreman, thank you for helping us better understand all of this. And you'll be back tomorrow. And we're going to talk about the potential strengths and dangers of AI and how we can make it safer.

54:05So to continue this discussion, we are joined by Republican Congressman Jay Obernolte of California. He is vice chair of the Congressional AI Caucus and has a master's degree in the technology. He is also the co-sponsor of a new bipartisan act to strengthen the oversight of advanced AI, known as the Frontier Act. Congressman, thanks for coming on. You really are probably the most authoritative voice as a member of Congress on this issue, given your background. I first want to start with just your reaction to President Trump saying that he wants to appoint an AI czar and create an AI task force despite continuing to call the concerns over AI, quote, a hoax.

54:46Right. Well, we welcome the executive branch's engagement on this issue. I share the president's feelings that overregulation is something that we should avoid because it's going to affect our geopolitical competitiveness. and I think there's a balance that can be struck and we're trying to do our part in Congress by passing common sense legislation that imposes a light touch regulatory framework that balances those two needs the need to protect Americans against the very real risks of the harmful use of AI and by malicious human actors against the risks of over-regulation and the need to create a technology that allows our economy to flourish and all the good things that AI is going to do for our society to occur.

55:30So we think that the Frontier Act achieves that balance. It's broadly bipartisan, and we're going to be pushing to pass it through the Congress this year. Tell us what the light touch means, in your view, what this act does. And when you say human actors using it in the wrong way, you also heard concerns about AI not with the use of human actors going rogue and causing great harm to society that's not in alignment with human values. How would this tackle that? Right. Well, I think it's important to keep in mind that these recent incidents have been exposed through testing. And the models that we're testing in all of these cases were models that had their safety controls intentionally removed.

56:11So the companies were asking, as they should, what's the worst thing that can happen? And we're finding out what the worst thing that can happen. So we're finding out a lot more about alignment, where we need to align the values of AI to human values. And we're finding out a lot more about the ways that we impose guardrails on AI. For example, it's becoming increasingly clear that what AI developers call chain of thought monitoring is going to be required to ride herd on these advanced models. But to answer your question, what we think the correct regulatory approach is, is one that demands transparency and accountability from frontier developers.

56:49So we're requiring in the Frontier Act developers to create mandatory safety plans. We're not prescribing what has to be in them, but we're saying that they have to address a certain list of catastrophic risks. We're requiring them to be transparent about those plans and publish them. And we're requiring accountability because we're requiring them to hire independent verification organizations, not the government, but people that are certified independent of the developers to confirm that they are following their safety plans that they imposed. And we think that that really meets the moment. And we'll talk more about the Frontier Act later, but you have the safety aspect of this and you have the economic incentives.

57:28The Washington Post reports that Trump and his family have a lot of investments in AI. The decisions the president makes could impact the value of those AI investments. How can we trust his administration to make decisions on this that are in the best interest of the public, and not just the president, but members of Congress, too, who are able to have investments in AI stock? Sure. Well, I mean, it's an important question, Pamela, and I think the transparency is the answer to that. First of all, we have a balance of powers, so it's not just the administration that's driving decisions about AI regulation.

58:02It's in concert with the legislative branch, members of Congress, as you point out, and our judicial branch. And that's why we have transparency requirements where everyone files a financial disclosure statement to make the public aware when a conflict of interest might occur. And in Congress, we have something called the Stock Act that restricts our ability to buy and sell the stocks without being transparent about it. And I hope that that would give the public some confidence that folks are making decisions based on public interest and not their own self-interest. But does it concern you, given the economic incentives, even with what part of what you're proposing here, you're leaving it up to the AI tech CEOs, in large part, it sounds like, and they all have economic incentives, right?

58:49I mean, so much of this economy is propped up on AI right now. I mean, how do you balance that with the safety concerns here? No, I think you used the right word there, balance. And balance is very important. I would push back on the assertion that our legislation leaves it up to the AI companies. The whole reason for doing this is to not leave it up to them to establish a unified national framework for AI safety. But I think it's also very telling that in recent days, AI companies and their CEOs have come together to say, we need some regulation here. We need a slowdown and a pause and some thoughtful discourse about the topic of AI safety and how we're going to achieve it.

59:32And to me, I welcome their engagement because it means that we're all on the same team. We're all trying to push for the same thing. Yeah, that's fair. I was just talking about the fact that it would require disclosures. And so you're trusting these companies to disclose whether there are any issues. And we have seen that more recently with OpenAI. We've seen that with Gemini. They have actually disclosed issues. But the question is, how can you continue to trust them? There's just a lot at stake here. I also want to just get your reaction. Trust but verify, right? Right. The part of our bill, the larger bill we call the Great American AI Act, also includes things like whistleblower protections.

1:00:13So it's you trust but verify. You know, you hope that there's mandatory vulnerability reporting that occurs and that the companies follow the rules. But you also create protections for whistleblowers who can come forward and say, hey, I'm very concerned here. My company is not following the rules. And I think that those two things together are what's required. Yeah, and we have heard from some of those whistleblowers, right? You had the former anthropic researcher Jacob Coxon come out saying that he's concerned that AI could kill us all by the end of the decade. And then you have Nvidia co-founder and CEO Jensen Wang, who says he disagrees with that.

1:00:47Let's listen to him. There is 0 % chance that's going to be the end of the world. And so I think that scaring people is unnecessary. It is irresponsible. And I don't know what their motives are. So who should Americans believe? Well, this is a fast moving and evolving technology. And so we all need to be skeptical of everything that we hear. I would completely agree that some of the fears about AI are overblown. I'll tell you the things that keep me up at night. It's not something out of a Terminator movie where an army of evil robots takes over the world. I don't worry about that. But what I do very much worry about is the use of AI in the hands of malicious human actors to do things like steal people's money through cyber theft and cyber fraud.

1:01:37That's already happening to do things like hack our critical infrastructure that's already being done by our geopolitical adversaries. And I worry about the use of AI to spread mis and disinformation that undermines our democracy and our trust in each other. So taken together, maybe those are equally consequential to an army of evil robots. But I think we all need to worry about those things. And as you noted earlier, you know, you also have the China factor of all this. The president is expected to meet with Xi Jinping, the leader of China this week. The president keeps saying that the United States needs to win the race against China.

1:02:12But what exactly does winning look like, in your view, when this is just such a fast evolving technology? What does that actually mean? Right. Well, the United States has a substantial lead over China in both the development and deployment of frontier level AI. And China is trying very hard to catch up. President Xi has made a public commitment to surpass the U.S. and become the worldwide leader in AI development by the year 2030. And they are devoting vast amounts of resource to making that happen. And we need to take that part of the competition very seriously. We should take very seriously the fact that two years ago, China passed the U.S.

1:02:52the number of PhDs it's graduating in computer science. And this year, it's likely that they will graduate over double the number of PhDs that we do in computer science. So, you know, we need to make sure that we're committed, as the president says, to that part of the competition. But do you think that there should be some agreement worked out between the U.S. and China? And you heard Scott Bessa, the Treasury Secretary, indicate that that is something that they're working on. But also, I just want to go back to what does winning against China look like on the AI race? Because if you take AI to its natural conclusion, that means it's super intelligent, it's smarter than all humans, and it may not be aligned with human values.

1:03:25So help us understand what winning looks like in this race with China. Right. Well, I think you're looking at it in the wrong way. AI is already the most powerful tool that mankind has ever invented for the dissemination of human knowledge. It can teach anyone anything they want to learn about in whatever learning style is optimal for them. And that's going to have profound consequences for human empowerment. But AI will shortly be the most powerful tool for the enhancement of human productivity that mankind has ever invented. And that's going to have profound consequences for our geopolitical competitiveness, our economy and things like the expansion of human longevity and the expansion of prosperity in any country that leads the world in its development.

1:04:14So that's the reason why it's so important to get this balance between protecting people against harms and not over-regulating correct, because we want those benefits, right? And that's why the president says, and I agree with him, that this competition is so important. Yeah. Yeah. And just to be clear, Congressman, we've talked at length about all the benefits AI can provide. There's no question about that. But there's also the downside, which I know you're trying to work on with the Frontier Act. And so that's why I keep asking to get some clarity when we say winning against China, what that actually means when it comes to AI, given the upsides and the downsides, if it's taken to its natural conclusion.

1:04:49Does that make sense? Right. No, it does. But I disagree with you. I don't think we talk about the upsides enough. I mean, we might give them some lip service, but I think we'd spend the majority of time talking about the downsides. Well, to be clear, after Jacob Coxon came out and said that, you know, humanity could end in a decade, I think that certainly got a lot of people paying more attention to what the potential downsides could be and whether it's even worth it to have upsides if we're all going to be extinct in a decade, something that a lot of people also disagree with that, you know, that hypothesis of what could happen, which is important to have these conversations.

1:05:25Congressman Jay Obernolte, thank you so much. Appreciate you coming on the show. I hope you'll come back to continue this conversation. Of course. Anytime. Thank you. And still ahead, how President Trump is approaching the flurry of dealmaking and diplomacy expected this week at the United Nations. But right now, he's about to meet with New York Mayor Uzo Ramamdani again. What will separate this sit-down from the last time they got together?

1:05:58Well, happening now, President Trump is preparing to go to New York for a big week on the international stage. His visit includes an address to world leaders at the U.N. General Assembly on Tuesday. But today, he'll meet with New York Mayor Zoram Amdani and discuss issues affecting the city, according to Amdani's office. Despite their significant political differences, the two leaders have maintained a surprisingly friendly relationship and have already met twice. Joining us now is former New York Mayor Bill de Blasio. So how significant is a presidential visit to New York City during, you know, to meet with the mayor during this time?

1:06:35Tell us about this. Pamela, it's almost never happened. I mean, you're talking about a handful of times in history that a president of the United States has actually gone to Gracie Mansion, you know, the official residence of the mayor, and sat down with the mayor to talk about the needs of New York City. It's quite striking. And what's fascinating, of course, we're all fascinated by this personal relationship between these two. But I think what's even more powerful is what's motivating Donald Trump to go out of his way to do this. I think he recognizes that Mamdani has been extraordinarily effective with a message of affordability.

1:07:09Really, part of the main reason why the Democrats are talking about affordability all over the country was the example that Mamdani set last year in his election. And I think Trump really wants to, in a sense, make sure that message doesn't spread even more effectively. So he's trying to keep Mom Donnie from turning into even more of a powerful voice against Trump's failures on affordability. I think this is effectively a containment strategy on Trump's part. You think it's containment. Yeah, because I was going to ask you what you attribute this cordial relationship between the two men. What's behind this?

1:07:46Do you think there's anything else besides just that? Look, I think Momdani did something very important in the second visit to the White House. He presented this vision of affordable housing, which obviously is speaking Trump's language, you know, real estate development. And it's a very powerful project. It's actually an idea, Sunnyside Yards and Queens, that we first presented in my administration, but we couldn't get enough federal buy-in. There's really a chance that something powerful could happen there. It's over 10 ,000 affordable apartments, an amazing project. And I think Momdani understands that that might actually catch Trump's fancy and get to be the kind of critical mass point where Trump could actually bring in federal investment.

1:08:25So there's a very tangible reason for Momdani's side. But for Trump, I mean, I think this is this is game respects game. I think Trump sees how powerful a communicator Momdani is. And I really do think from Trump's perspective, he knows he's he knows he's losing altitude all the time in terms of approval. He does not. He, Trump, knows he doesn't have an effective message. And I think he looks at Mondani in a sense as the literal opposite, the guy who's kind of mastered the message around affordability. And that message is really undermining Trump and the Republican Party right now. If you were still mayor and you were the one having this meeting, how would you handle it?

1:09:05What would be the first issues you would raise? I think this is sort of a put up or shut up time, honestly, Pamela. I think Mamdani's offered Trump a chance to do something amazing for his hometown. Now, I know he left for Florida and I know Trump was upset that New York City overwhelmingly voted against him for president, but it's still his hometown. I've had this conversation with Trump. We actually had a few sympathetic conversations during the covid crisis where he talked about his roots in Queens. And I know he still feels something for it. I think it's a moment for Trump to finally say, OK, I'm going to give back.

1:09:40I'm going to support this extraordinary opportunity to create affordable housing. By the way, that would be the kind of thing you'd like to see the Republicans do more of, not just as a matter of governance, but if they want to win elections, they better start showing they understand the affordability issue. So there's an opportunity moment here for Trump. Not sure he's going to take it, but it's there for him. And as you well know, Trump has been hammering Democratic socialists ahead of the midterms. What are the pitfalls here for Mayor Mamdani? I don't think there's much because the challenge here for that message that Trump has been trying to use and other Republicans, you know, they talk about socialism, communism.

1:10:17First of all, I think these ideas are extremely abstract to most voters when they're dealing with the reality of the status quo right now in America. Look, you and I both know not only working class folks, middle class folks feel it's tough to make ends meet right now. They're not feeling particularly hopeful about their children's futures. When you talk about political ideologies, it kind of doesn't make a lot of sense when people are dealing with the here and now and trying to pay the bills. So I think that kind of attempt is falling flat. I think the Republicans are trying to create a boogeyman that people just don't relate to.

1:10:48Mamdani, on the other hand, has a chance to keep showing people the human face of a more progressive vision of a fairer economy. So I think you know, he's got a stronger hand to play today than Trump does. All right. Bill de Blasio, thank you so much. Great to see you. Thank you. And up next, press protests. Why CNN and two other news organizations now plan to sue the White House after the Trump administration's latest move against the press.

1:11:21happening now a new lawsuit testing the power of the president and freedom of the press cnn is joining forces with ms now and politico and this morning filed a first amendment lawsuit against the trump administration specifically the president's decision to ban the three news outlets from access to the white house join us now is cnn chief media analyst brian stelter brian Before we get to the lawsuit, provide some context. How unusual is this media ban from the president? And what are the real term effects today? No past American president has ever, ever tried to do anything like this. This is completely unprecedented.

1:11:59And I know viewers have heard that a lot in the Trump years. You're probably tired of hearing it. But it's important and true in this case because the journalists who go to the White House, they're not always the most popular people in the world, but they are there to report on behalf of the public to find out what the president is doing, but also what he's not doing. And so in this case, this ban against three news outlets is really a threat to the entire press corps. And we've seen a really unusual and united reaction, a united front as a result. Pam, this is a statement from all five major networks in the U.S., Fox News, NBC, ABC, CBS, and CNN.

1:12:32It says, quote, the public has a vital interest in receiving accurate, independent information about its government. No administration should restrict a news organization because it objects to its reporting. So that's Fox News, as well as the broadcast networks, drawing a line here and saying that what the president's doing is unacceptable. Paramount is reportedly on the verge of buying CNN. Paramount owns CBS News. So it's notable that CBS is also signing on to this statement and saying that this is a line that should not be crossed. So that's the context this morning for the lawsuit, Pam. We've never seen this happen before.

1:13:06And just tell us about today, how we're actually seeing the impact of this ban, because CNN was supposed to be part of the press pool. That's not happening. No, that's not happening. And the other networks are agreeing not to fill in and substitute for CNN and go and film the president with their own cameras instead, because every five days, is these networks take turns. Today is CNN's turn. CNN was also going to be the travel pool tomorrow because the president's staying overnight in New York for the UN General Assembly. So the other networks are refusing to fill in and do the CNN pool duty. That is a part of the show of solidarity going on here.

1:13:43But what we're going to see happen, Pam, is we're going to see reporters get creative. That's what we do sometimes, and we have to. We're going to see reporters try to get credentialed in other ways. I'm told, for example, that a CNN reporter has already been approved by the office of the First Lady to cover an event with Melania Trump on the sidelines of the UN tomorrow. So I'm expecting more of those sorts of things to happen. There will still be coverage of what the president and the First Lady are doing, but it's not going to be through the official pool because Trump has instituted this ban.

1:14:12And I think, Pamela, it's important to note what the president wrote on True Social this morning about this, because he's clearly been watching the coverage. He's been hearing from these First Amendment lawyers. He's been hearing that he's probably going to lose in court. So he wrote on True Social, I'm not assaulting the free press. I'm assaulting the fake news. He says, quote, it is instituting an assault on the fake news, something that's grown like cancer. He says it is a threat to our national security and must be stopped. We've seen this time and time again from the president. He will wrap himself under this claim about national security because he wants a ballroom or he wants an arch or because he wants to ban CNN from the White House.

1:14:46I think most people see through that. What do you what would you say? I would I would tend to agree, especially the fact that a few days ago he said he basically He didn't like the coverage. It was negative of him. He didn't like that. So, yes, I would. I would take him at his word when he first announced the ban. All right. Brian Stelter. Yes. Thank you so much. Well, just ahead, mounting frustration. Why growing attacks from Houthis are complicating efforts to end the war with Iran and putting President Trump between a rock and a hard place when it comes to a key ally in the Middle East.

1:15:24happening now president trump is about to kick off a big week on the international stage that will include a major address before the un general assembly tomorrow but growing concerns about the widening iran war and further disruptions to the global oil supply are casting a shadow over the gathering of world leaders cnn political and global affairs commentator sabrina singh is here in the Situation Room. And I want to just ask you about what CNN military analyst, retired Army, oh, you're here with us too, retired Army Major General James Spider-Marx. Sabrina, I want to ask you about just how critical will the UNGA be for Trump when it comes to the war with Iran?

1:16:03And how is this latest offensive, Houthi offensive, testing the US partnership with its Gulf allies? This annual meeting is always so important and always requires so much prep for the White House. I mean, it is the convening of so many global leaders coming to New York. And it's usually a projection of U.S. power. And I think, unfortunately, the United States is walking into this General Assembly meeting a bit on its back foot. This war is looking more and more like a quagmire. We don't have a clear exit strategy. And now you have our Gulf allies and partners saying, OK, now we have this Houthi offensive opening up that's potentially leading to a horizontal escalation, meaning that the war could open up another front in the Red Sea.

1:16:44And is the United States going to stand with us? And we've seen this president say, you know, we'll send intelligence support. We're sending military generals to Saudi to coordinate on things. But the United States and this administration seems like they do not want to enter another offensive right now because, frankly, we haven't even, you know, we're still very much entangled in Iran right now. Dino, what do you think the U.S. should do right now? Well, I need to tell you what Sabrina just said is spot on. I don't think the Trump administration really cares what the international community thinks, which is incredibly unfortunate.

1:17:17What the United States needs to do right now is certainly, I think, encourage the Saudis to figure out a way to minimize the impact of the Houthis. That is a very difficult task. What has happened over the course of the last decade plus, you know, the Saudis have been trying to eliminate the Houthis without result. But they've been doing it essentially through a campaign of an air campaign and over the horizon type of an effort in order to eliminate or at least defeat. We're not going to ever completely destroy, but to defeat the Houthis, which means they may come back at some future date in some form.

1:17:57But to defeat the Houthis, there must be the injection of forces on the ground. And I guarantee you, the United States will not be a part of that. They will provide support in terms of command and control type of efforts, intelligence type of efforts, logistics as necessary. But there will be no direct U.S. engagement in that necessary step to eliminate the Houthis. And then more broadly, clearly the Mideast is the challenge right now. And based on the national security strategy published about a year ago, the Mideast was number four out of a priority list of five. Yet now it is absolutely got the focus of the world and the United States, quite frankly, very entangled fight.

1:18:40Sabrina, obviously, Americans have been very tuned in with what's happening in the Iran war because we've seen the real world impact here at home as well. Why should Americans also be paying close attention to the fact that this conflict is widening? This was something that we dealt with in the Biden administration and something that I spoke to when I was at the Pentagon. I mean, we were launching strikes against the Houthis because they were interrupting shipping in the Red Sea. I think the difference here is that we brought together a coalition of countries to combat that threat. I think what Americans need to be worried about is this is another passage that oil flows through.

1:19:14So if the Houthis close off the Bab al-Mandeb, that is yet another choke point for oil and diesel and everything that we rely on as an economy and the global economy. So that means prices are going to go up and that means diesel in particular is going to keep rising. And diesel, as we know, is really the backbone that moves everything from groceries to packages to our homes and to our grocery stores. And so you're going to see prices go up. And I think when you have more global choke points getting closed off, people are going to feel it in their pocketbooks. And that's what they should expect to continue as long as this war continues on.

1:19:50And General, what message does it send if the U.S. doesn't do what the Saudis are asking for right now in this moment? Well, it's a matter of a practical response. Can the United States do it? The short answer is sure. The United States has the capacity to do that. Is it a priority at this point when the challenge with Iran has a much incredibly long tail? and can the Saudis, with the support of the United States as described, it would be qualified, do sufficient application of force and economics in order to achieve some type of an opening? Look, the opening, I would say, technically, the Babel Mendeb is open commercially.

1:20:33It is challenged. And that's the problem. And what the Houthis have been able to do is they now control Yemen's access to the Red Sea. And so those ports that they now own control access to the Babel Mendeb. And they've indicated if it's a Saudi vessel, it's not going to go through. Everybody else can come through. Well, that gives them complete authority in terms of how they want to control that and maintain access to that. It's not their job, clearly, to do that, but they own that at this point. So the United States certainly has options, but it's a matter of trying to establish the priorities of those.

1:21:10And I think it's fair to say the economics will remain very, very challenged domestically. I want to talk about what's going on with the war in Ukraine. We saw this big assault on Moscow, I believe the biggest one we've seen since the war started, Sabrina. And President Trump is due to meet with Ukraine's President Zelensky on the sidelines of the UNGA. What can we expect from this meeting? Well, you know, it's interesting. Today, the president on Truth Social put out a post that essentially indicated that he was blaming Russia for some of the diesel shortages that the world is seeing. So it's an interesting change of tone from where we were back in February 2025 where you know that infamous Oval Office meeting.

1:21:51I think what you're going to see here from this meeting that is going to happen on the sidelines is Ukraine once again pressing the United States for some of the interceptors that it needs. We know that this could be a very, not just dangerous, but an essential winter where we know Russia is going to target their energy supplies. And we saw that last winter. And so going into this winter, they're going to want to make sure that they are well stocked on their defensive capabilities. Of course, we know this is also something that the United States is running well short of in the war in Iran. So I think you're going to see Zelensky push for that.

1:22:22And then you're going to see, I think Zelensky reiterate that we are ready to move forward with some type of peace agreement, But Russia's not serious about coming to the table to negotiate some type of ceasefire. So we'll see what happens after these meetings. It's a good thing that they're meeting on the sidelines, but the results, I think, remain to be seen. All right, Sabrina Singh, Major General James Spidermanx, thank you both. Great to have you both on. And coming up, how a potential cluster of childhood cancer cases has one community demanding answers and doing whatever it takes to get to the bottom of what's happening here.

1:22:59happening now health officials are investigating an unusual string of rare pediatric cancers in a small southern California town families and Ladera Ranch say they have seen at least one case of Ewing sarcoma per year since 2021 to put that in perspective the American Cancer Society says only 200 children and young adults in the entire U.S. are diagnosed with it every year CNN's Julia Vargas-Jones is in Los Angeles, and you spoke with several families, Julia, dealing with this. What did they tell you? Well, the first thing, Pamela, is that they want to get an answer. They want to know if these cases are related.

1:23:37And as of now, we don't know yet. Of course, this is the beginning of an investigation by the California Department of Public Health and the Cancer Registry. But it's taken a while for them to get the attention of their officials, starting with their HOA and going up into the county supervisor and now finally with state authorities. I want to tell you about the person we see on the screen there. That's Brian Dalton. He's Lily Dalton's father. His daughter was 23 years old when she died, a recent college graduate, and she battled a really difficult, a tough battle with cancer that basically took their family to have to do something.

1:24:15He said, I don't want any other parent to be where I am today, trying to explain how difficult it is to battle a cancer that is not just a cancer, but it's also so rare. And there's lack of information, Pamela. Another family is the family of Brody Madison. And I mentioned Brody because it was after his death earlier this year in March that families really started to get together and compare their notes. Brody was beloved in the community. He was a football player. He was on those fields in Ladera Ranch every day, just in soccer, baseball, football. He was out there every day. His dad told me that he wanted people to know what was going on.

1:24:54And so his mother was one of the people who started taking down names and organizing. Eventually, the community formed something called the Ladera Health Watch, and they started demanding those answers. They went to the HOA. They went to—they asked about the water quality. They asked about what could be in the soil. And all of these questions are questions that scientists are saying, Pamela, are worth asking at this point. And what have you heard from officials about their investigation? Where do things stand? Well, they've gotten a lot of attention from local media here in Southern California, and that has helped catapult it.

1:25:28So there is now an investigation going on from the California Health Department and the Cancer Registry to figure out the first step of this, Pamela, is, is this unusual? I know it could sound like, of course, it's unusual, but they still have to determine that to then figure out if there is an environmental cause for these cancers that has affected so many children in this community. All right, Julia Vargas-Jones, understandably, they all want answers. What's going on here? Thank you so much. And thank you all for joining us this morning. We'll see you back here tomorrow morning at 10 Eastern.

1:25:59Inside Politics with our friend and colleague, Manu Raju, starts after a quick break.

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