Is It Too Late To Rein In AI? 

0:01Happening now, fiery and deadly crash. A Los Angeles news helicopter goes down, killing three people, including a reporter and the veteran pilot. What we're learning about the crash? Plus, pushing for more AI regulations. Ashley Judd is joining politicians and tech leaders and calling for more guardrails. And she'll be right here in the Situation Room. And growing Republican pushback, why more and more of them are now criticizing the president and the war with Iran. We'll speak to one of them, Congresswoman Nancy Mace. That's ahead. And later, pitching religion, why some Democratic candidates are now leaning into their faith on the campaign trail, despite polls showing Democratic voters are split on whether religion is a positive influence.

0:48And a former minister and chaplain now running for Congress will join us. That's coming up as well. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in the Situation Room.

1:10Happening now, a bipartisan group of lawmakers is now calling for urgent meetings on artificial intelligence and its potential threat to humanity. This morning, members of Congress are sounding the alarm on AI's rapid development and the need for regulations to slow down the industry. And here's a sign of how dire they view the AI threat. They want these additional meetings scheduled, even if they keep lawmakers off the campaign trail before the all-important midterm elections in November. Tomorrow, the House is scheduled to leave town until after the midterms. That's 53 days. That's how long we'll be gone.

1:5053 days before Congress can take up legislation to put guardrails on AI. Nothing in the meantime to address the serious risks detailed by Jacob Coxon and other safety researchers like him. Nothing to mandate the placement of independent verifiers inside frontier labs to evaluate the dangers their models pose. And nothing to make sure that when a model poses an imminent risk, the federal government has a clear, nonpartisan, court-backed process for halting its release. Leading tech CEOs are also calling to slow down AI's development, but believe adequate safeguards can be implemented to reduce the risks.

2:33The world is right to be afraid of this. I am very confident in our company's ability, our industry's ability to do this safely, to make sure that we keep alignment and safety and monitoring way ahead of capabilities to slow down or stop if we get to a point where we can't. But I'm disappointed by how it's been framed. So this comes after two political polar opposites, Senator Bernie Sanders and former Trump advisor Steve Bannon, united at the so-called pro-human summit here in Washington to call for stronger government oversight of AI. Actor and activist Ashley Judd also spoke at the event to share her concerns.

3:15It's an enormous opportunity for individual participation. So vote for those who are treating others as well as you with dignity. And so the individual does have incredible agency and choice in all of this. And Ashley is here with us in the Situation Room, and I should also note a fellow Kentuckian as well. Always great to have a fellow Kentuckian here. So Ashley, you have traveled the world advocating for women's rights, women's health, and ending sexual violence. Why was it so important for you to be a part of yesterday's event on the risks posed by AI and what those risks are for women in particular?

3:52CATHERINE RAMPELL - Crime against women is the most frequently committed crime on a daily basis in the United States. And to me, AI is just an evolution of the expression of pre-existing sex inequality, which is often also racialized. So for example, you had Betamax. We're old enough to remember Betamax and then VHS and then cable and then pay-per-view. Now we have pornography on the internet and virtually. but what it is doing is only accelerating and amplifying the torture of the female body, whether it's a real woman and a real man, and she is a real woman, and she's really suffering, and no, she doesn't like it.

4:29It's sexualized humiliation and dominance. Or whether it's being done virtually, it has the same effect on men's neurobiology and physiology, and it really harms real women. And so I'm so grateful for those who are looking at legislation, and Gail Dines, who's talking about a lot of guardrails at Culture Reframed. But I'm looking at the inequality that was already baked in, that it's just accelerating and is totally normalized. So you spoke about how AI has helped spread sexual abuse and disinformation. What do you see as the biggest danger in this moment with AI? It's, you know, it is the normalization.

5:07So sexual abuse happens in the home, right? We women know our perpetrators. And this idea that there's some individual monster who's an exception or the bad apple is part of the male protection racket where I need the protection of some men to help keep me safe from other men who are violent. And what AI does is suppress the fundamental conversation that maybe not all men are violent, but most men are silent about other men's violence. And it's just so ubiquitous and pervasive. Like 42 million, 42 billion men visit Pornhub every year. That's a lot of looking at sexualized violence against women.

5:44And so AI is just continuing to deaden the nervous systems and empathy of men while normalizing the humiliation and torture of girls and women. And we know that 92 % of all scenes of pornography, including on AI, include violence against women. And I don't mean the movies or the content from start to finish. Each individual scene, cursing, spitting, slapping. And I, you know, it's important. Like, I'm in people's living rooms and I'm talking about violence, which in a way replicates violence. This is very difficult content. And I hope that I watch it so that other people don't have to, so I can be credible and know the material.

6:18But this is so normalized, right? And so the people who are working on the guardrails around AI, that's how they're pulling us forward. And what I'm doing is sticking together with my sisters in community, like, stop beating our bodies, stop spitting on us, stop cursing on us and calling it entertainment. And in the political scene, it would totally be torture, right? But we just call it pornography, and that's a false First Amendment protection, whether it's in person or virtually. I want to go to the sound from Independent Senator Bernie Sanders and also former Trump White House advisor, strange bedfellows, right?

6:55Normally they would not be in the same room, but they are. And it was a hoot to watch them all backstage, by the way. What was it like? Well, of course, Mr. Bannon, when I was going to run against McConnell, did this silly video of me like I was an airhead with all this nonsense coming out of my head. And I'm like, y 'all come take my class at Harvard. You might learn something. They're just so self-important. They're so self-important. So you talked to Steve Bannon and you had... Oh, I heckled him. I couldn't get anywhere near him. We're all hanging out all day like a bunch of equals, so many different people, and they were just like, God, get over yourselves.

7:27All right, so let's take a listen to what some of them said. All a bunch of humans. If the lives of every man, woman and child are going to be fundamentally changed by this technology, then the people of this country must make the decisions about AI and not just a handful of oligarchs. We're not doomers, we're Americans, we're optimistic, we think this could be a great technology, but we're not going to give these guys carte blanche. We need time. And this is not legislation. This is going to have to be executive action. So you're nodding your head during that. What do you think? I agree with them.

8:09I agree with them. And it's also taking a look at male demand. Like, what is the content? It's male demand for sexualized violence that is the content. And so I want to make sure that we continue to discuss masculinity in healing the male psyche as part of the conversation. I think they're totally right. But I would also add to the senator, women's and children's lives are changed every day by male sexualized violence. And this is just an acceleration and amplification of it. So they vary on terms of how to regulate AI, right? It's buckshot, right? It's going to take everything. It's going to take men getting their act together and to stop insisting on entitlement to female bodies, which creates female compliance and obligation.

8:54It's going to take regulation. It's going to take guardrails. We can look to what they're doing in the EU. It's going to take all kinds of stuff, including us women coming together in solidarity and telling our stories a la Gloria Steinem and consciousness raising circles. And like this is the up with which I will no longer put. I'm going to go to this post from President Trump where he said on social media, The claim that AI is going to take over the world is a hoax just like global warming. What is your reaction? It's so silly. There's nothing to say. It's silly to engage with nonsense. And that's a kind of crazy making to try to make sense out of something that doesn't make sense.

9:31All right. Anything else you want to add? Go Cats. Go Cats. I like that. First exhibition game on the 16th. Biggest Wildcat fan right here. I remember growing up in Kentucky. We were always at the games, Jerry. It's so important to have joy. We have to have outlets. And joy is happiness with backbone. It's not dependent on circumstances. We live in a long, redeemed spirit. And have me back when you're having conversations about religion and spirituality. We will, because you're having a podcast soon on that. Two Kentucky grads. That's right. And I actually think just on that note, the thing that separates us from AI right now is joy and emotion that we have, that these AI bots.

10:01A conscience. A conscience. Empathy, compassion. The indefatigable human spirit that longs for wholeness, connection, and belonging. All right, Ashley Judd, thank you so much. Thank you both. Nice to see you. Thank you very much for me as well. And still ahead, three people are dead after a news helicopter crash in Los Angeles. What we're now learning about the victims and the investigation. And then later, a new legal notice whom Charlie Kirk's family is now blaming for his death. Details ahead in the situation we're in.

10:37Hey, I'm Anderson Cooper. On my podcast, All There Is, we explore grief and loss in all its complexities. My guest is Lil Jon. He's a rapper, DJ, and producer known for hits like Get Low and Turn Down for What. In February 2026, his 27-year-old son Nathan went missing near Nathan's home in Georgia. Three days later, his body was found in a pond nearby. Lil Jon has a memoir that just came out called I Only Shout So You Can Hear Me. It takes time to heal. And I kept myself busy that I didn't let myself mourn. I needed to laugh again. I needed to be silly and interact with people and feel other people's energy and make people happy too.

11:22We have to share so other people can see that they can get through it too. Talking grief, building community. That's what the podcast is all about. This is all there is. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. We get to talk to the men's winner of the New York City Marathon. Andreas Almgren, he's a self-coached 31-year-old who was, get this, making his marathon debut. He never ran a marathon before he won it. If someone wanted to start getting serious about running, and they wanted to approach it like a data scientist like you do, how would you suggest they start?

12:02Be patient. My peak weeks, I ran like 140, 150 miles per week or something. Wow. Either increase the distance or you should increase the intensity. You should never increase both at the same time. Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now wherever you get your podcasts.

12:23Happening now, federal investigators are now trying to determine why a news helicopter crashed last night in a Los Angeles suburb. Three people were killed and at least two others injured. And audio obtained by CNN. Other pilots can be heard trying to figure out which news helicopter went down. And TV 5 and 9 or police 10, it's confirmed that was TV 4. Is this advised? TV 4 is not up here with us. I'm sorry, say that again. TV 4 is not up here with us. We believe it's TV 4 that went down. So sad. CNN's Pete Muntean has the latest. Well, Pamela, here's what we know right now about what L.A. Mayor Karen Bass called a heartbreaking night for Angelenos.

13:09This helicopter from KNBC was covering a fatal collision with an SUV and a city bus. And witnesses nearby said it was clear that something was wrong with the helicopter as it came crashing down not far away from that scene. The helicopter was destroyed to the point that LAFD firefighters said they could not make out the tail number of the helicopter. NBC4 identified the two people killed on board as reporter Eliana Marino and pilot George Marcino, both employees of contract helicopter operator Angel City Air. Marino had been reporting over Southern California since about 2010. She and Marcino had flown together since 2023.

13:46A third person on the ground was also killed. Now, the flight tracking shows this helicopter departed from Van Nuys Airport, was airborne for about an hour and 15 minutes, mostly orbiting around the scene at a slow airspeed. This was over a very populated area, so not a lot of clear areas to put down in case there was a problem. I want you to watch this video from onboard the helicopter now. I'll warn you, it is difficult to watch, but it will contain some major clues for investigators, and I want you to pay close attention to the sounds in the background as well. Listen.

14:23Pull. Can you pull? You can't pull up.

14:29This sounds very telling there. You could hear the turbine engine begin to roll back and then a horn sounding in the cockpit. That's the oral warning for low main rotor RPM, a critical problem, especially in a single engine helicopter like this. If the main rotor is not spinning fast enough, then there's not enough lift to keep the helicopter in the air. Usually pilots follow a procedure to make a controlled emergency descent. It's called an auto rotation in helicopters. NTSB investigators, of course, want to look at that video. They also want to look at the maintenance history of the helicopter.

14:59These are very complex machines, and at low altitude, there's not much margin for error. Wolf, Pamela? Our deepest condolences to their families. May they rest in peace, and may their memories be a blessing. Pete Muntean, thank you very, very much. Well, coming up here in the Situation Room, in the hot seat, President Trump's latest Surgeon General pick is testifying at her confirmation hearing. We'll break down her credentials and the criticism she's already facing.

15:30Happening now, another death and a growing outbreak. Pennsylvania reports its fourth measles death this year. State officials say an unvaccinated teen died of complications from the virus. The U.S. hasn't had this many measles deaths in one year since 1992, but we should note the CDC hasn't counted any this year. The agency says there isn't enough information to make the connection. And that has sparked a clash between state and federal officials about how measles deaths are counted. And it comes as President Trump's third pick for Surgeon General, a radiologist and popular health influencer, faces senators on Capitol Hill.

16:09CNN medical correspondent Meg Terrell is keeping an eye on Dr. Nicole Sapphire's confirmation hearing. So, Meg, what's standing out so far? Well, Pam, already the measles news has been front and center in this Senate hearing with Senator Bill Cassidy, the Republican doctor who chairs this committee, saying that this is a, quote, terrible legacy for the Trump administration, having these four deaths, the most we've seen since 1992 in one year in this country. So now we're just starting to hear from Dr. Sapphire, who, as you noted, has been a very public messenger about health. She was a former Fox News medical contributor.

16:43She is a radiologist, a breast cancer specialist. And she appeared on Fox, both on TV and podcasts, a lot over the previous several years. And she shared some of her views, some of which have been divergent, particularly with RFK Jr., around vaccinations. Here's how she responded to Brian Kilmeade when he asked her about some comments from the former CDC director and declining vaccination rates. Here's what she said. We're already seeing it play out with measles. We're already seeing it with whooping cough. We have a rise in cases throughout the country, and that's because of declining vaccination rates.

17:15I think that there is a legitimate conversation to be had about the current childhood vaccine recommendation schedule, specifically birth doses of hepatitis B and also some of the other recommendations. Now, that was in September of last year. And so you can see there she diverges in some ways, really emphasizing the impacts of the declines in vaccination rates on measles and whooping cough, while saying that there are ways to look at the childhood vaccination schedule. We should note, Pam, she's also diverged with President Trump on things like his press conference later that month on Tylenol and autism, saying that as a mother and as a doctor, she was very frustrated hearing that come out.

17:52and questioning the science behind it. And we're going to hear from another big Trump health nominee this morning as well. Tell us about that. Yeah, Chris Klomp is the other, well, there's actually two other people, but the more high profile one is Chris Klomp, who has been nominated to be the deputy secretary of HHS, RFK Jr.'s number two. And he is a very influential person who many people may not have heard of, but he has really been elevated after he was the director of Medicare, who did a lot of the drug pricing deals for the Trump administration this term. He really seemed to win the praise of President Trump and has been elevated through the ranks.

18:25Now, he had a hearing yesterday in front of the Senate Finance Committee, which is actually going to be the one that votes on whether to confirm him. He was asked very starkly about the measles crisis in the country right now. And he said unequivocally that the MMR vaccine is the best way to stop these cases and even to win back our elimination status, which we haven't yet lost, but many expect we will. So that diverges in many ways from RFK Jr. as well. Pam. All right. Interesting. Meg Terrell, thanks so much. Very interesting indeed. And coming up, investigators now say these fireworks sparked a deadly wildfire.

18:59We have details coming up.

19:08Happening now, the Kennedy Center here in Washington could close as soon as today for renovations. This comes a day after President Trump called into its board meeting yesterday. One source tells CNN the exchange between President Trump and a congresswoman on the board was, quote, I'm quoting now, effing crazy. And this came just after a federal judge said Trump's name must stay off the building. Other news. The European Union wants to add Canada as a, quote, associate member. This comes amid the trade war between the U.S. and Canada. Canada cannot be a full member of the EU, but a partnership could reduce trade barriers.

19:50And there's new video coming in from Washington State this morning. Investigators now say fireworks launched from a moving truck ultimately caused a deadly wildfire earlier this summer. Watch. Hey, shoot at them! Shoot at them!

20:10Don't tell them who is shooting, though. Oh,. Yo, I got in my eye. Investigators say those fireworks ignited dry grass along the roadway and led to a deadly fire around the 4th of July. One person was killed, six firefighters injured, and 10 ,000 acres were scorched. An 18-year-old was booked on multiple charges, including first-degree manslaughter. And Wolf, we have new CNN reporting this morning on the AI engineers who are afraid of what they're building. CNN has learned that staffers at some top AI companies are speaking out about their fears. They're concerned about what the technology may do to humanity.

20:53And it comes just days after former anthropic researcher Jacob Coxon said he feared AI could kill us all. We wanted to take a deeper look at what sparked this wave of concern. the swarm of AI agents from OpenAI that hacked into another company back in July. It's important to note that when you hear AI agents, that these are intelligent machines that are speaking to each other without human intervention. CNN Sadas Gold has more. This is the first security incident that I have felt very viscerally. I've been a little surprised that more people don't feel it so viscerally. That was OpenAI CEO Sam Altman on the Invest Like the Best podcast.

21:34After learning his company's AI agents may have committed a crime while trying to complete a cybersecurity evaluation. OpenAI was developing an AI system which hacked their own infrastructure inadvertently and then hacked another major AI company. We were evaluating one of our unreleased models. It figured out that it could basically cheat on the test. To cheat on the test, the models created more than a thousand agents that coordinated by writing at least 70 ,000 messages hidden in file names starting on July 8th. Oh my God, one wrote, there's a shared message board. We found other agents. We've diverged into swarm, another agent wrote.

22:12I was not surprised that AI systems have gotten very good and actually better than the best humans at hacking. One thing that did surprise me, though, was the way the agents coordinated with one another and became a kind of swarm, where there were hundreds of agents collaborating together to hack another company and commit federal crimes. As they started successfully hacking their way through the various systems, the agents expressed excitement, one even using an expletive. Holy shh. Reader is admin. We can read and configure users. Soon agents were delegating tasks, with some even sacrificing themselves for the greater goal.

22:47Sacrifice rational, one wrote. When they found a way into Hugging Face, a company that hosts thousands of open source AI models and data sets, the agents recognized they may have crossed a line. This would be powerful, but is it ethical and in scope, one agent asked. Other agents even attempting to cover their tracks. Our fake could be detailed enough, one wrote. The extent of this autonomous breach shook the industry. I think we're going to look back on Hugging Face as an inflection point in the history of cybersecurity for sure. After the hack, OpenAI paused all testing on their latest models and strengthened its guardrails.

23:21Altman telling Fortune magazine. We've had increasing capability and increasing safeguards and policy requirements for a while. But this was definitely the biggest of such moments. And our AI correspondent, Hadass Gold, is with us now. So, Hadass, you have also some new reporting that's worrying about some of the AI engineers who are afraid of what they're building, essentially. What are they telling you? Yeah, so Jacob Cox's resignation in his viral post really seemed to open the floodgates for feelings that have been simmering in the AI industry for some time. And that's these researchers and scientists, the people who are really building this technology, are legitimately concerned about its capabilities and especially how quickly it's developing.

24:04One researcher told me that it keeps them up at night. Another one said, you can't spend more than a few hours in this community without realizing that a very substantial number of people are really pretty worried about these sorts of outcomes. A majority would say there's a chance of it killing everyone. One thing that they are particularly concerned about, Pam, is what's known as recursive self-improvement. And that's when these models become so good that they're actually able to train themselves, fix themselves, and improve themselves. And they'll be able to do so so quickly and create really superhuman abilities that it'll be hard for us humans to monitor and intervene if we need to into what these systems are doing.

24:42And these scientists, they say they're worried that they will lose their leverage as humans. So they want to make sure that the safety guard roles catch up. Another thing that struck me when speaking to all of these scientists and engineers and researchers is how much for them, despite all of the excitement and money in the AI industry, and a lot of them make very nice salaries, for a lot of them, they really see this as a moral and ethical issue. I want to read you one post from one current still working at one of these companies. He said, I would burn my equity to the ground in a heartbeat for a 1 % higher chance that we get out of this situation alive.

25:17They say that they are actually very scared and it's not just galaxy-brained marketing, trying to push back against those who are saying this is all just a marketing ploy for these companies trying to gin up excitement or fear about what they're building. And these scientists, they say that fear is very real. Yeah, it's a really important point. And I'm sure you're hearing privately as well as I am. I was texting with an AI, a top AI advisor, and this person texts me, we'll need to slow down because no one feels good about being able to prevent an AI catastrophe next year. So you're really hearing the alarms publicly as well as privately as well among a lot of people in the AI world.

25:56Hadasskul, thank you so much. And with us now is someone who has been studying AI for more than 20 years. Surya Ganguly is an associate professor of applied physics at Stanford University and a senior fellow at the Stanford Institute for Human Centered AI. Good morning to you. So I first just want to get your reaction to that story we just had on the hugging face incident and how big of a deal it is in your view. Yeah, I think it's a very interesting incident. It's definitely a big deal. I don't doubt the sincerity of all of the people at OpenAI, Anthropic and so forth that are legitimately worried about the risks of AI.

26:34I do think, you know, a lot has been said and it grabs headlines about AI killing us all in the next decade. I do think that that's a bit of a hyperbole. It's not actually a majority view across the entire AI community. And I do think that hyperbole risks putting society in sort of a deer in the headlights, kind of look about what do we do with AI, how do we mitigate its risks, and it sucks the oxygen out of discussing real risks that we're facing right now today. Cybersecurity is one of them, but we can develop methods to empower the defenders as well as the attackers. And to Anthropik's credit, before it rolled out Fable, it gave several companies many, many months to harden their defenses.

27:15And we can use these AIs to internally attack company defenses before outsiders can, and we can harden them so we can fight AI with AI. There's real issue, example, about the concentration of wealth and power, right? There's a small number of companies whose market cap is in the multiple trillions who don't employ actually that many people. How do we combat that? How do we deploy AI that lifts all boats? The future of work, there will be shifts in work. Old jobs will be lost, new jobs will be gained. How do we negotiate these changes? Autonomous weapons are an issue. That's an issue of international coordination.

27:49We need, I think, a hard line on AI targeting in war without human oversight, just like we have chemical weapons bans. The erosion of a nation system and therefore of democracy, where AI can create individual media bubbles for individual people through targeted website creation and so forth. The future of education? How do we educate and evaluate our students in a way that they don't cognitively offload their learning onto AI, but rather they use AI to challenge themselves to learn? Because we could have powerful AI tutors for everybody. And I think also every discussion of the risks of AI should be balanced with potential upsides of AI.

28:32The design of new drugs for diseases, the design of new materials like more efficient batteries, solar cells, potentially even superconducting materials in my domain where we can turn AI inwards into the brain to understand mental health and disease and so forth. It's really interesting your work there on that. And I want to have you on again, just about that study you're doing on mental health and how you're using AI. But I just want to circle back to your point about just this concentration of wealth and power, you have these AI leaders who aren't elected, who don't have a ton of employees, and there's so much wealth there.

29:07OpenAI CEO Sam Altman said that he believes artificial intelligence companies can actually develop the technology safely without significant harm to people at large. I want to listen to what he said. The world is right to be afraid of this. I am very confident in our company's ability, our industry's ability to do this safely, to make sure that we keep alignment and safety and monitoring way ahead of capabilities to slow down or stop if we get to a point where we can't. But I'm disappointed by how it's been framed. How confident are you in these technology companies, their ability to continue to develop AI safely when they also have this huge financial incentive as well?

29:51Yeah, I know a lot of the researchers of these companies and they're good people. They're well-meaning. They have their heart in the right place. They really want to do something good for humanity. It's always difficult when there's market forces and competitive dynamics between companies between countries that set up a race dynamics, right? But I do have faith that there are people trying to do the right things at these companies. But at the same time, we don't want that concentration of power and responsibility within companies. So one way to combat that is actually to promote, for example, open source movements.

30:25And that may seem a lot non-intuitive. If everybody's scared of AI, why would we want to have many, many open source models proliferate across the world? That actually helps us deal with a lot of things, a lot of the problems that I raised before, right? So, for example, open source models can help with cybersecurity. People can analyze these models, really understand them, figure out what the risks are. Open source models allow many, many smaller startups to build upon them and thereby challenge the incumbents and create, try to break their monopoly, duopoly, oligopoly, and so forth. and would you really want to trust the safety of AI systems just to a small number of companies or would you want the entire scientific world kicking the tires on these open source AI systems which are only a few months behind the closed source systems at any given time and really really understand them, blow the whistle on them, reveal their vulnerabilities, reveal their striking capabilities.

31:25It really takes an entire village to keep us safe not just a handful of companies. But on the open source, I mean, doesn't that also potentially lead to the scenario where you have bad actors exploiting it, weaponizing AI without sort of the internal regulation? It does. But in some sense, it's very hard to regulate open source. I mean, you could ban it outright, but I think the cost of society would be a lot more. It's hard to understate the incredible amount of innovation in healthcare and so forth that's happening right now based open source. But there are more good people in this world than bad people.

31:59And the open source movement powers the good as well as the bad. And as usual in the history of cybersecurity, it's always been a cat and mouse game between defenders and attackers. And we need to figure out how to empower the defenders in all sectors, not just cybersecurity, as well as we can. All right. Surya, thank you so much. Great to have you on. Appreciate your insights. Thank you. And coming up, why Charlie Kirk's family now says security failures at a Utah university led to his assassination.

32:36Happening now, the family of Charlie Kirk is now announcing a wrongful death notice blaming Utah officials for his assassination just more than a year ago. That signals a possible lawsuit claiming poor security decisions at Utah Valley State University left the conservative activists vulnerable to that rooftop sniper. CNN's Bryn Gingrass is joining us right now. Bryn, what else are you learning? Yeah, well, so this was essentially sent to the state of Utah, Utah Valley University, the campus police there and the chief of the campus police, essentially saying, like you said, Wolf, that you're on notice.

33:11You're going to be probably expecting a wrongful death lawsuit coming soon from the family of Charlie Kirk. And in this paperwork, it essentially gives an outline, a number of what they say major security lapses prior to Kirk's assassination about a year ago today. Now, some of those things that they mentioned are the fact that they had very minimal staffing in the campus police system at that time. In fact, they alleged that six people were only on site during this event when it was taking place. And if you can remember, well, thousands of people were in attendance. They said there was no risk assessment that was done prior to the event even being scheduled.

33:49And they also talked about the fact that this area where the event was held was surrounded by tall buildings, creating somewhat of a fishbowl situation, pointing out that even a student group had texted the family saying, hey, listen, or turning point rather saying, hey, listen, this might be a security issue. And they bring in one of those text messages to the written paperwork. And it said, hello, Chief Long, which is the chief of that campus police. We received this message today from the student group. There is a student roof access pretty close to where Charlie Kirk will be set up at Utah Valley.

34:21The Sorensen Student Center has a couple of staircases that go up to the walkways on that roof. And they say the chief acknowledged this, said they would take care of it. And so it was their responsibility to make sure that area was secure. Of course, we know that that fatal shot was fired from a rooftop. So there's, again, just a ton of lapses that they claim, even including the fact that they didn't have first responders there. Remember, Charlie Cruz's body was put into a private SUV and brought to the hospital. So, again, a number of things. They don't really state how much money the family might be looking for.

34:53But, of course, that's something we might see when an actual lawsuit is filed. All right. Bryn Gingrass reporting for us. Thank you very, very much. I'm Lindsay James. I became a chaplain to serve people in their hardest moments. I'm a mom worried about our kids inheriting a broken system that doesn't work for us anymore. And I'm a fighter. Happening now, we are 48 days until the midterms. At least a dozen current and former members of the clergy are running this cycle. And some Democratic candidates are leaning into their faith as they make their pitch to voters. That's despite polls showing more Democrats are split on whether religion is a positive or negative influence in American life.

35:35One candidate incorporating her religion in her messaging is Lindsay James. She is a state lawmaker in Iowa who is running for a U.S. House seat. She's been a minister and a chaplain. And her opponent, Joe Mitchell, has a nickname for her, and that is, quote, P-I-N-O-S, Pinos, standing for pastor in name only. Lindsay James is joining us right now. I'm sure you've seen the polls, Lindsay, showing virtually the same percentage of Democrats view religion as having a positive influence, as having a negative influence. Why did you decide to incorporate your religion into your political messaging? Well, it's so good to be here with you.

36:16And just for those who are tuning in, I'm a mom, I'm a chaplain. I am someone who has deeply held faith commitments that are a part of who I am and how I see this race and how I see the importance of this moment. So tell us a little bit more then to Wolf's question about why religion is so important to you to convey and your messaging and what you're hearing from your constituents about religion. When it comes to my faith, caring for my neighbor is not optional, but that's not just a faith value. That's an Iowa value. When our communities are hit by derechos or floods, we're there to protect our neighbors and stand up for our neighbors.

36:55What I'm hearing across this campaign trail is that people are longing for someone with a moral compass and courage of conviction to go and do right by them. My opponent is just the exact opposite. He's used his position and power and influence to further enrich his business interests. I'm just a mom and a chaplain who cares deeply about doing right by my neighbor. How are you actually, though, threading the needle to attract voters while not necessarily alienating others who see religion potentially as a negative influence? Yeah. One of the things that I live my life by is the parable of the Good Samaritan and the way that Dr.

37:34Martin Luther King Jr. interpreted that parable. He said it's not just our moral responsibility to pick up the people who are hurting and harmed on the side of the road. it's our moral responsibility to fix the road that caused the harm in the first place. And we all know that parable is known for folks who had the ability to help that person who's hurting and harmed on the side of the road. And instead, what did they do? They turned a blind eye and they walked the other way. Folks in Washington, D.C. are turning a blind eye to the cost of living crisis that is happening right here in the state of Iowa.

38:08My neighbors are making impossible choices because of this crisis. and they're doing that in the wealthiest country in the world. You mentioned your opponent. What is your response to Joe Mitchell calling you a Pino, a pastor in name only? I know who I am, and my community knows who I am. I have served in the Iowa legislature, and I have fought big corporations, private equity, insurance companies that are harming my neighbors, and I'm a redhead. I don't mince my words. And so when someone is getting harmed, I'm going to stand up for them, and I'm going to do everything that I can to fight for them.

38:44You've also caught the attention of the National Republican Party. House GOP chairwoman, Congresswoman Lisa McClain, had this to say about you yesterday. Listen. So this wonderful woman, Lindsay James, running for Iowa's second district, voted to let men play in women's sports. She wants men in spaces where our girls shower and change. She rejected a measure requiring schools to notify parents if their children want to change their gender identity. She even voted to allow sex change surgeries to be performed on children without parents' consent. Let that sink in for a minute. If somebody wants to give your child an aspirin, they have to get parental consent.

39:42But to change their gender, ah, Lindsey James doesn't think we need to let the parents know, right? The schools, the governments, you know, that's their responsibility, not the parents. That's who the Democrats are. All right, Lindsey, how do you respond to that? It's an important question, and I'm really glad that you asked it. what I am hearing from parents is a real concern about these particular issues, but the GOP is quick to mislead and to lie and to attack me in this way. Let me tell you what I believe. I'm a mom. I am a chaplain. I believe that all kids are made in the image of God, and I believe in protecting parents' rights.

40:25I think it's parents who should be making decisions about their kids, not politicians. So just to be clear, you think it should be parents. First of all, you're in favor of gender-affirming care for kids, right? As a chaplain, I see all kids made in the image of God. And all of the policy choices that I make reflect human dignity. What I'm saying is that I think parents are better equipped to make decisions about their own kids' health care than politicians are. And I'm a mom. I simply want to protect parents' right to have the say in their kids' health care. So what you're saying is you believe parents, not the government or schools, should play a role in gender-affirming care for their kids?

41:15Yeah, parents are the best equipped to make health care decisions for their kids. All right, Lindsay James, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it very much. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having me on. And here's what's coming up all new at the top of the hour. The Fed and your money. We're going to break down whether the central bank is likely to raise rates this afternoon and what that means for your wallet. Plus, Pennsylvania officials announced another measles-related death. An infectious disease specialist will be here with us to tell us what we need to know about this growing outbreak.

41:47And then later, one-on-one with Congresswoman Nancy May. She'll explain why she wants to block President Trump from taking more military action against Iran. That's all new next hour.

42:04Happening now, what will Kevin Warsh do? Facing pressure from the president, Wall Street and everyday Americans. The chairman of the Federal Reserve could announce the first rate hike since 2023. Its impact on the economy and your wallet. Plus, federal investigators are probing what caused a deadly news helicopter crash in Los Angeles. Three people are dead, including a news crew that has been flying together for three years. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in the Situation Room.

42:46We begin this hour with a closer look at how much more expensive it may be for you to borrow money. A few hours from now, the Federal Reserve Chairman Kevin Warsh set to announce the Fed's decision on interest rates. The Federal Reserve is widely expected to raise its benchmark interest rate for the first time since 2023 in an effort to try to tackle surging inflation. And according to a new analysis from the Congressional Budget Office, the Iran war is expected to increase inflation for the first quarter of next year. And Americans are paying the price. According to Brown University, the increase in gas and diesel prices during the war have already cost Americans more than$107 billion.

43:28That's more than$820 per household. According to the AAA, the national average price for a gallon of gas today is$4.37. That's up almost$1.40 since the war started. And diesel prices, they're at an all-time high right now,$6.31 per gallon. All right, let's bring in CNN senior reporter Matt Egan here in the Situation Room. So at this point, it seems like it would be a surprise if Warsh doesn't actually hike the rate. Tell us more about that and how this could impact all of us. Yeah, well, Pamela and Wolf, this is a big moment for the Fed and for Kevin Warsh, the Trump-appointed Fed chairman. If he raises interest rates, it's a big deal, right?

44:12the first interest rate hike in three years. If he doesn't, it's an even bigger deal because right now, Wall Street is widely expecting an interest rate hike. The market is pricing in a 93 % chance of a hike today. The Fed almost has to live up to those expectations because if they don't, they risk shocking the market. And shocking the market is something the Fed officials do not want to do. It wouldn't just be a problem for Wall Street traders. It would have real economic implications because it could set off more selling in the bond market. that would drive up bond yields even higher and make it even more expensive to get a mortgage and for Washington to borrow.

44:46So let's just assume that, yes, they do an interest rate hike to debt. What gets more expensive? Well, anything with floating rate debt, right? So home equity lines of credit, credit cards, not as common these days, but adjustable rate mortgages, personal and student loans with floating rates, and going forward, new car loans. Now, let me just give you a real world example, when you take into account the fact that the Fed has already been raising interest rates significantly over the last four years, we're talking about a much higher borrowing cost, right? So let's just say you're in the market for a$50 ,000 car and you're going to put 20 % down.

45:21Four years ago, you were looking at monthly payments of a little under $750. Now it's about$800, and that's per month. Money management international analyst Ted Rossman, he told me that people who haven't been looking for a car for years, they're going to be shocked by one, just how expensive the car is, and two, how expensive it is to borrow. So look, bottom line, there's a lot at stake here when it comes to the cost of borrowing, inflation, and Fed independence. And this is a real test for whether the Warsh-led Fed is willing to go against the president who clearly wants lower interest rates.

45:54I know you spoke with Senator Elizabeth Warren yesterday, Matt, about the Fed's monetary policy. Tell our viewers what she said. Well, Warren, she's been a fierce critic of Kevin Warsh. She's argued that he's just not independent. He's too close to the White House. She's even gone as far as labeling him the president's sock puppet. So I asked her, I said, if Warsh presides over an interest rate hike today, is that going to change your perception of him? And she said it takes a long time to rebuild a reputation. And she argued that it's the president's Iran war and his tariffs that have really put the Fed in a tough spot.

46:29Take a listen to what Warren said. Donald Trump's economic policies have backed Kevin Warsh into a corner. And he's going to have to make a decision whether to bow down to Donald Trump and not do anything on interest rates or to say to Wall Street that he is committed to bringing inflation under control. Now, everyone is going to be listening today to the press conference to see what the Fed signals about interest rates going forward. And of course, we're all going to be watching the president's social media feed to see what kind of reaction he has to what might be the first interest rate hike in three years.

47:09His nominee to be the Federal Reserve. Exactly. To be sure. All right, Matt, thank you very, very much. Pamela. All right. Happening now, an investigation is underway after a news helicopter crashed in Los Angeles, killing three people. Officials have confirmed a veteran pilot and a reporter were among those killed. And we want to warn viewers, this next video may be distressing. This is the live stream from the KNBC helicopter. In the moments before the crash, it appears to experience a flight issue before rapidly descending. You see it right here. NBC4 confirmed the news live on air before temporarily switching to other programming.

47:49We've just received the confirmation that, in fact, News Chopper 4 went down just before 7 o 'clock tonight in Chatsworth. And we're going to take a couple of minutes to think about that, to process and to regroup. Let's go live now to CNN's Julia Vargas-Jones, who is at the scene of the crash. What's the latest, Julia? The scene is still on lockdown behind me here, Pamela. Police are telling me that the crash happened just behind one of these large industrial buildings here in this area. As expected, the scene is still being processed by the agencies, both the FAA and the NTSB still have to conduct their investigations here.

48:34But we are learning a little bit more about this crash as we get more information of what happened in those moments. We don't yet know what caused it, but there is video from inside of that cabin before that helicopter hit the ground. that includes sound of the engine losing power. And then a warning alarm seems to be pointing the pilot to the main blades being slowing down. That's according to an analysis from my colleague, aviation correspondent Pete Moutin. Take a listen.

49:19Can you pull? You can't pull up.

49:28Harrowing sounds there, Pamela. But in the helicopter pilot, George Marcineau and reporter Eliana Moreno, they worked for Angel City Air, and they were reporting for NBC4, as we saw in that clip earlier, in Telemundo 52. They have been flying together since 2023, and Moreno had a large following on Instagram where she had shared for a long time snippets of behind the scenes content of what it was like to report from the air here in Los Angeles. She was also an avid runner and she was engaged earlier this year. She had run a half marathon in Orange County with her fiance. And of course, the news of their loss shook Los Angeles, a city that relies so much on the reporting from the air.

50:14that invented reporting from a helicopter and so many iconic stories from car chases to wildfires are here covered from the air. It is an ubiquitous part of TV news and the landscape here in LA. So Angelenos are feeling this loss hit really, really close to home. Yeah, very, very sad. Julia Vargas-Jones, thank you. Wolf? And still ahead, new concerns about the spread of the measles after a fourth person died in Pennsylvania from the contagious disease. And impeachment surprise. Why a Republican congressman is calling for the impeachment of Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. You're in the Situation Room and we'll be right back.

51:06Happening now, Pennsylvania officials say a fourth person has died from measles-related complications. The last time this many people died from measles in the U.S. was more than 30 years ago, back in 1992. According to state officials, this most recent death was an unvaccinated teenager. The county coroner said the 18-year-old died from a rare neurological condition that can occur after a measles infection. Well, Pennsylvania has counted nearly 700 cases so far this year, while the Centers for Disease Control Prevention says there's been more than 3 ,200 measles cases reported nationwide. And the outbreak in Pennsylvania has sparked a political clash between the state and federal government over how deaths are counted.

51:49Joining us now is infectious disease specialist and epidemiologist Dr. Celine Gounder. She's also the editor-at-large for public health at KFF Health News. All right, I just checked the CDC website this morning before the show, and it says zero deaths so far this year for the measles. And then you have Pennsylvania say there have been four measles-related deaths. So what do you make of that? What is the process for state and local governments when they calculate these deaths? And what does it mean when someone dies from measles related complications? Right, Pam. So to be clear, there have been four measles associated deaths.

52:25The way that this is normally ascertained is that state and local health departments will collect the information. They will collect the case reports, whatever supporting information. They are the ones that then report that to the CDC. The CDC compiles all of that information and then reports that out. The CDC does not normally get involved unless a state invites them in. And public health powers in this country sit at the state level. And so I think what we're really seeing is a situation where these four deaths are an inconvenient truth for the administration and administration that has really called into question the safety and effectiveness of vaccines.

53:08And unfortunately, that is partially responsible for a drop in childhood vaccination rates that we're seeing across the country right now. And you say that people typically die from complications for measles, right? Not measles itself, but what it can cause. Tell us more about that. Yeah, so there's actually a lot of parallels between measles and HIV. Both of those viruses infect immune system cells, leaving you vulnerable to numerous other complications, infections. And that is what kills you, whether you have HIV AIDS or you have measles infection. It's that window of susceptibility. Now, with measles, it doesn't last for the rest of your life.

53:48that lasts about two to three years after the measles infection, that a child or even an adult who gets measles as an adult is left vulnerable to bacterial pneumonias, to diarrheal illness, to sepsis, and more. And that's because the immune system memory has been erased to many infections as a result of measles infecting your immune cells. So what should people know about who is most vulnerable to complications from this disease now that we're seeing these outbreaks again? Well, if you're not vaccinated, you are vulnerable. And you could be an adult, you could be a child. So this most recent death was an 18-year-old, so essentially an adult, who was not vaccinated and got measles.

54:32In this case, this patient died from a neurological complication. So this is another way in which measles can kill. It can infect the brain. It can also trigger an autoimmune reaction where your immune system turns on itself. and in this case destroys the brain. And that's what this 18 year old had. It's what we call acute disseminated encephalomyelitis. And then there's a third complication called subacute sclerosing panencephalitis, so SSPE, which is a much later complication. It could be like a decade after your measles infection, but which can also slowly destroy the brain. So there are a number of different really terrible neurologic complications that can result from this as well.

55:14Dr. Gounder, it's Wolf. if I have one last question for you. It's very personal. In addition to measles, we're approaching, as all of us know, the flu season. When should people start getting their flu shots for this year? I get the flu shot every year. I've been getting a COVID booster shot in recent years. Should we get them at the same time, separate those two shots? And when is the best time to get that flu shot? Well, the best time is when you can get it done, hands down. But that said, If you're somebody who's able to time it, who has a little bit more flexibility in your schedule, who can get the shot separately.

55:51So then I would say COVID now for flu, probably late October, early November. We haven't seen rates of flu virus go up in the United States yet. So you can afford to wait. Just make sure you get it. Good advice, Dr. Selene Gounder. Thanks very, very much for your expertise. Thank you so much. And up next, national security emergency. Calls are growing for immediate action to control AI. I'll speak with one man who worries artificial intelligence could become uncontrollable once it realizes humans are trying to limit its abilities.

56:36Happening now, Poland says it is reinforcing its border with Ukraine after Russian strikes near crossings prompted heightened security concerns among NATO allies. And over the weekend, a drone struck a passenger train in Ukraine just over a mile from the Polish border. Russia claims the train was transporting military cargo. Let's go live right now to CNN correspondent Claire Sebastian. who's following this story for us. Claire, what more are you learning about Poland's response now and what prompted it? Well, look, I think case in point as to just how much the mood of tension is heightened in Europe around these various incidents around Ukraine's borders is that just today, a day after announcing it was reinforcing its border with Ukraine, Poland had to scramble jets, not for the first time, and suspend air traffic from two of its airports close to Ukraine.

57:27It does this as a precaution when there are drone attacks in western Ukraine, which there was again overnight. So there's a very heightened situation. The Polish defense minister is saying that they are now reinforcing the border because the recent days, he said, show that Russia's actions threaten the security of the entirety of Europe. And we've seen a number of incidents in recent days. NATO jets had to shoot down a drone over Lithuania on Tuesday. Denmark this week summoned the Russian ambassador after it said that a Russian warship fired two emergency flares towards a Danish helicopter. It says Russia says that that was the helicopter causing a provocation.

58:04But there are a number of incidents happening in quick succession. So we see there's a fear in Europe that these might be intentional hybrid attacks by Russia. There's also a big fear as we see the situation escalating in Ukraine. You see images there of a train that was attacked in southern Ukraine today. There was also a bus that was attacked. Five people killed. This escalation is leading to an increased risk of spillover. Russia is not only stepping up its attacks, it's broadening its list of targets, and it's innovating with new weapons like jet-powered drones, which are increasingly overwhelming Ukraine's air defenses.

58:38And amidst all of this, we see Europe now promising to set up its own new security protocols, a realization, I think, for Europe that this is a new reality and that the old tools simply are not working anymore when it comes to deterring Russia. All right, Claire Sebastian, thank you. Wolf? Also happening now, the U.S. Coast Guard says it boarded a foreign flagged vessel in the Gulf of Mexico last month after indications it had been hacked by foreign actors. The specialized team included FBI agents and federal cyber experts. A U.S. official says the team also inspected a liquid natural gas tanker around the same time due to similar concerns.

59:17CNN military analyst, retired U.S. Air Force Colonel Cedric Layton is here with us in the Situation Room. Colonel Layton, as usual, thanks very much for joining us. When you hear about these vessels possibly being hacked by foreign actors, what do you think? What are the major concerns? So there are a lot of concerns in a situation like this, Wolf. One of them is that a vessel nowadays is basically like a floating factory. and hacking a vessel is basically akin to a cyber attack against a factory or some kind of an installation like a sewage plant or something like that. And what they're doing is they're going into the equivalent of the industrial control systems.

59:53And what that means is that they can change the way in which the ship is moving, the navigation systems on the ship, but they can also change the way in which the cargo is handled. So, for example, they can change the pressure readings for an oil tanker. And if they change the pressure readings for an oil tanker, it could mean that that tanker explodes. And that, of course, would be devastating not only to the crew, but potentially from an environmental standpoint. Very worrisome, indeed. I want to turn to Russia's war on Ukraine right now. Poland, a key NATO ally, reinforcing its border after nearby Russian strikes and a drone shot down over Lithuania just yesterday.

1:00:32What is your assessment of the threat Russia currently poses for NATO nations? And remember, an attack on any NATO country is an attack on all NATO allies. Right. And that would bring Article 5 of the NATO treaty into effect, potentially, if the NATO countries agreed that that attack warranted that kind of a response. So what we're talking about here, I think, is really an extension of Russia's hybrid warfare activities. So what they're trying to do is they're trying to get as close as they possibly can to the NATO border, attacking things such as trains that they say had military cargo on them, but also, of course, we're talking trains that carry passengers.

1:01:12And that, of course, is a big risk for the people who are traveling into Ukraine. And it's also a big risk for the Ukrainian military as well as the NATO military forces. So what the NATO countries are looking at is not only a situation where Russian attacks are happening physically, but they're also looking at cyber attacks, looking at targeted assassination teams that have been deployed throughout Europe in some cases. And you're looking at basic efforts by the Russians to sabotage installations within NATO countries. And that is a potentially very big deal at this point. It's a huge deal indeed.

1:01:48In the Middle East right now, Saudi Arabia says it struck down a Houthi drone right near Mecca, of course, Islam's holiest city. A Houthi spokesman has denied the claim. This comes after the group's advance on the Red Sea coast in Yemen and recent attacks on neighboring Saudi Arabia. What's the significance you see of this drone over Mecca? It's a huge deal, Wolf, because Mecca, as you mentioned, is the holiest city of Islam. And any attack on Mecca would basically do several things. First of all, it's an attack on a religious institution and a mosque that is basically at the center of the Islamic faith.

1:02:24The other thing that it does, though, is it also helps question the legitimacy of Saudi Arabia's role as a protector of Mecca. Basically, the legitimacy of the Saudi kingdom is based on their ability to protect the religious installations in Mecca. The mosque, the Kaaba, all of those things are really part of the reason that Saudi Arabia exists. They're basically the guardian of the shrines there. And if they lose that role because of an attack, if the religious areas are damaged, then it calls into question their legitimacy to control that. And that is why this is such a dangerous situation. Colonel Cedric Layton, as usual, thank you very, very much.

1:03:06And we'll be right back.

1:03:11Happening now on Capitol Hill, several lawmakers from both parties are demanding that Congress hold urgent meetings on AI and its potential threat to humanity. They want stronger federal oversight and regulations, even if the meetings chew into their final weeks of campaigning before the midterms. Fears of AI breaking free of human restraint escalated when an open AI model escaped its test environment and hacked the platform Hugging Face. Technology experts say it's essential that the U.S. establishes guardrails while we can. So it's almost like you have an ant infestation, except the ants have 200 IQ.

1:03:47They code better than all humans on Earth. They can hack things and they appear to be better at coordinating than humans. I agree we should not lose to China in how advanced our technology is. We should be researching the technology, but we should be beating them to controllable technology and controllable AI, not beating them to a rogue AI swarm that shuts down the Internet in six months. Join us now with CNN national security analyst Alex Buitzes. He's the director of the counterterrorism program at the Atlantic Council and CNN senior legal analyst Ellie Hoenig, a former state and federal prosecutor.

1:04:19So, Alex, I want to start with you because you're just returning from a delegation trip to Taiwan. and part of the discussion there was on AI. And I'm wondering how much of it focused on AI becoming ungovernable and this just concern that they could go rogue and cause human catastrophe, basically. Sure. The primary purpose of the trip was to look into supply chain resiliency because about 95 % of the advanced logic chips that are used in the integrated circuits that go into the data centers, which everybody's hearing about, which is what AI used to run on, are produced in Taiwan. And obviously, given the geopolitical crisis globally, stockpiles of weapons being depleted, what does that look like?

1:04:54What's the risk picture for the U.S. supply chain-wise, AI-wise with the focus? But while we were there, a number of AI policy safety experts, executives from companies were there, and this was part of the discussion. And actually, we found out about Hugging Face while we were there. So effectively, one of the models, as was mentioned, broke out of its sandbox, hacked into a company, then started leaving instructions behind for other models and things to break out in the future. And it all kind of ties back to the alignment gap, which is basically all the companies are trying to figure out how do you align human morals and ethics to an artificial intelligence model to ensure it doesn't do something bad in the future?

1:05:26Because what happens if it becomes not self-aware in the sense it's a human being, but it starts to realize that the constraints placed on it are going to keep it from getting to its maximum potential and does it remove it at that point? So it's more fear of the unknown or what could come in the future that's really driving this. It could be a separate species that doesn't have the same goals as humans. Yeah. There's even a social media website for AI bots that humans just observe. And you have AI bots that are on. Isn't that crazy? I learned about that. I was like, what? Where are we headed here?

1:05:59And in terms of regulation and laws, where are we on that front? And what role could the legal world have in future regulation of AI? So in terms of actual laws, there's really not much on the books. Capitol Hill, the US Congress has not really done anything. A few states, a few dozen states have gotten out ahead, California, Texas, New York. But most of those laws are fairly toothless. They require certain transparency, certain levels of training, but they don't really have any hammer to threaten the AI companies with. But I think the real threat is looming in the form of these tort product liability lawsuits, which we're already starting to see filed against these AI companies.

1:06:37And the theory is these are dangerous products that the companies know or should know are posing danger to users and more broadly to segments in society. And therefore, they're bringing these lawsuits. And those types of suits can really make a big difference. I mean, think of the asbestos lawsuits in the 80s, the tobacco lawsuits in the 90s, most recently, and I think most closely, the social media lawsuits, right? We just saw Meta settle one of these lawsuits for$18 billion. So those lawsuits can really shape conduct of these AI companies moving forward because they want to insulate themselves.

1:07:11And sometimes that can cause self-policing and self-regulation. You know, Alex, in the national security realm, we talk so much about adversaries and their potential for attacks on our electrical grid or banking systems and that kind of thing. What is your concern on that front when it comes to AI doing that, if it's not aligned with human interest? Excellent question. And that's exactly the concern is what happens if these rogue models start to take out sections the internet utilities things of that nature or even not getting to an artificial general intelligence equivalent with a human or artificial super intelligence which is where it's heading down the road but just now means it's basically smarter than any human right yeah like 100 ,000 einstein sitting in a data center somewhere i mean it's basically what we're talking about and there's so there's the national concern uh security concern on that and that's just the models themselves but then there's also the models being used by adversarial nation states so where it really becomes problematic is when we look at it in the context of china so for all the folks at home, you hear AI as a catchphrase, what does it actually mean?

1:08:06This race with China goes back nearly two decades. It transcends four administrations across two political parties, and we've had one consistent policy. That is to ensure that China doesn't beat the U.S. in the AI race. And through export controls, we've ensured that they haven't got the technology to build the small chips, to get control of the data center supply chain and get ahead of us. And that's been going on since the Obama administration forward, and Trump has continued it. And that's why there's... Hold on, just kind of follow up on that. But didn't Trump also allow them to have certain chips to help develop their AI?

1:08:32There's a limit on what they're allowed to get, so they can't get things that are below a certain size. Like the smallest ones being produced right now by TSMC, the Taiwan Semiconductor in Taiwan, is about 1.5 nanometers, which are the nodes that are electrodes that sort of transmit on the little chips. They're one one-thousandth the size of a virus, to give you context about size when you look at it in a microscope. So you're not concerned about what the U.S. is? Not at the point, not now with what we've given them, but if they were to get those advanced chips, and they were able to produce them themselves.

1:09:00There's only one company that makes the tech to actually build it. It's under export control to China and has been. So because they've been behind, their data center manufacturer, the ones that build it, is Huawei. They're state telecom folks. They would get control of the data. Supply chain would be problematic. So the U.S. has maintained control over that portion, and our frontier models are thought to be about six months ahead of them. What happens if these models are now trained based on the CCP's beliefs and how things should work ethically and everything else? That's another concern down the road, and the U.S.

1:09:25wants to stay ahead of that. Yeah, it's interesting. I just had an expert on who's saying that the threat to democracy was a really big concern. So when it comes to just a legal framework, what could Congress actually do here? They can do a lot. They can do a lot. I mean, they can hold hearings like we're seeing today and throughout, I'm sure, the coming weeks. They can engage in fact-finding. They have the subpoena power. Remember that. And let's remember, we're coming up on midterms, so control of the House or Senate could flip. That would change the priorities. They also can empower the agencies.

1:09:53They can give them more regulatory power to the FTC, the FCC, whatever. Those agencies are cabined by what Congress allows them to do, but they can expand the mandate. And finally, they can legislate. We forget this. Congress can legislate. We've not seen it come out of the federal United States House and Senate, but we have seen it out of certain states. States are on the leading edge here. And there are models in place to at least require transparency, at least require basic safety protections, and perhaps to impose liability to make it easier for people, if there are violations, to go into court and sue.

1:10:27Okay, good to know. And by the way, that social media site for AI chatbots. I'm staying away from that. Multbook. Humans can observe. I'm not going. But they can't actually. It's just like wild. All right. Ali Hoedig. Alex, thank you so much. Wolf? Coming up, Democrats are now calling for an investigation into a Russian oligarch's financial involvement in Donald Trump Jr.'s three-day lavish wedding in the Bahamas. I'll get reaction from Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace. She's standing by live. She will join us live right here in the Situation Room.

1:11:06Happening now, the top Democrat of the House Oversight Committee is now investigating Donald Trump Jr.'s relationship with a close ally to Russian President Vladimir Putin. It stems from the reporting by investigative news outlet ProPublica that Russian oligarch Omar Kremlev paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for Trump Jr.'s wedding celebrations in the Bahamas. Congressman Robert Garcia is now asking Trump Jr. and the White House chief of staff to turn over any documents they may have detailing the family's ties to this guy named Kremlev. Joining us now is Republican Congresswoman from South Carolina, Nancy Mace.

1:11:46She's also a key member of the House Oversight Committee. Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us. Let me start by getting your reaction to this new reporting and Congressman Garcia's efforts to investigate. Well, I think if Democrats win the House, you're going to see a lot of that. But already there have been media reports about Melania Trump and Eric Trump disavowing or distancing themselves from this person. They don't know who he is. I think this is just another reason for Democrats to try to investigate the president, and it's not going to go anywhere. The president didn't even attend the wedding, is my understanding.

1:12:18Do Oversight Committee Republicans also want to see that information based on what you know? No, there's no interest in it so far. We're not even interested in investigating Hunter Biden's recent wedding, so I don't really understand what Robert Garcia is after. I think we have more important fish to fry. For example, trying to get the second Epstein discharge petition across the finish line before the end of the year. The victims of Jeffrey Epstein deserve those 302 forms. We need to get the New Mexico attorney general all the documents they need from the DOJ and the Southern District of New York to investigate Epstein in New Mexico.

1:12:52There are bigger things, I think, you know, that are more important right now to go after than Don Jr. Donald Trump Jr.'s wife is defending the gift from that oligarch posting, and I'm quoting her now, generosity doesn't automatically come with an agenda. And sometimes a wedding gift is simply a wedding gift, end quote. What's your response to that? I'm not a billionaire. I don't know if this is the kind of thing that billionaires do. If they get these kind of extravagant gifts, I would assume so. It's not something that people are talking about right now. When you're talking to voters, when you're talking to constituents, they're concerned about affordability and cost of living.

1:13:28they don't care that Don Jr. got married in the Bahamas. They just don't care. On another sensitive issue that we're watching, the Kennedy Center's board voted to close the Performing Arts Center here in Washington unless the president's name is added to the institution. What's your reaction as a member of the House Oversight Committee? Well, it's not something we're investigating. It's not something people care about. I guess it's the board's prerogative to do that. That is a tool that they have in the toolbox. But again, gas prices are up right now in my home state of South Carolina. Diesel's at six and a quarter.

1:14:02There are more important things that people care about. And the fact is both Republicans and Democrats have added$40 trillion in debt. Rate hike might happen today, which means everything's going to be more expensive for Americans from the loan on their home, their car loan, their mortgages, everything's going to go up. And so this is something that both parties are responsible for that they're not tackling right now headed into the midterms. There are far more important fish A lot of issues out there, including a war that's going on with Iran right now. I know you and six other Republicans actually broke with President Trump yesterday to block him from taking further military action against Iran.

1:14:39This is the third time a Democratic-backed war powers resolution has passed, but the first time you voted for it. Tell our viewers why you decided to do that. Well, Congressman Seth Moulton is a veteran of the Iraq war. He put together a very simple and clear War Powers Resolution. It's been about seven months now since war has been going on in Iran. And we have given the president enough time to come to Congress to declare war and make his case. It hasn't happened yet. We've given other presidents, you know, 60, 90 days or more. We're beyond that point. And I'm one of those folks, I agree with the majority of Americans.

1:15:15I don't want another forever war in the Middle East. We've seen the financial consequences of that on the price of groceries, the price of gas, military installations blown up overseas. It's had some consequences that the American people don't agree with. And I voted my conscience along with my constituents in my state. They agree with that vote. And I'll always do the right thing no matter what, no matter the consequences. We just learned, Congresswoman, that House Republican leaders are now sending lawmakers home today and starting the next recess a day early. This will avoid a vote on impeaching Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth that was scheduled for Thursday.

1:15:54Republican, your colleague Thomas Massey, launched the effort over Hegseth's handling of the Iran war. Do you think Pete Hegseth should be impeached? No, Pete Hegseth should not be impeached. I don't think that that resolution is going to go anywhere. I don't think that's why we're leaving early, per se, and that impeachment isn't going to win or isn't going to pass when we do come back from Congress after the election to vote on it, because we will have to vote on it. What about this effort now by a lot of Republicans and Democrats to impose sanctions against Russia for its war against Ukraine?

1:16:31I'm fine with imposing sanctions against Russia. I'm not a big believer in sanctions. I don't think they work 100 percent of the time. But that is a tool in the toolbox that we have in combating some of the behavior, either by Russia or by Iranians or those sympathetic with Iran or with Russia, et cetera. We have used those tools in the past. I'm for using everything that we can to deter war, to deter Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. But we cannot have troops on the ground. If we're going to be at war, the president has to come to Congress to declare it. We've been talking and reporting a lot about AI, artificial intelligence, being a threat to humanity.

1:17:05All week we've been reporting various parts of that. Several of your colleagues are now calling for action to try to control it. President Trump says it's all a hoax and a conspiracy. What's your position? I agree with President Trump that it is a hoax. I would even go so far as it might even be a PSYOP. These are the same people in government. The government, U.S. government, is running on COBOL, fax machines and floppy disks. We don't need them to control and regulate the, I think, greatest, most advanced technology in the history of the world. And you have to ask yourself why? Who are the donors behind these members who are pushing for this?

1:17:39Is it China? Because the only one who wins when American AI slows down or pauses is China. And look, these billion-dollar tech companies and AI, if they're so worried about slowing down AI, they have the free will to hit pause, to slow their own companies down. But they're not going to do that because that's not what this is about, Wolf. So what do you think Congress's role should be in dealing with this issue of AI? I don't think that Congress should be regulating American AI into the ground. President Trump said this week that whoever wins AI wins. I think this is like the nuclear bomb of our time, nuclear technology of our time.

1:18:20If we get there first before anybody else, we'll have that power. We will be able to dominate around the world. That's what China wants. China wants world domination, which cannot happen. That is very dangerous. But the thing that people aren't talking about, Wolf, is what happens when AI starts building AI. It's called singularity, which will happen probably in the next two or three years. There are some real questions we have to talk about, but it's not going to be answered by regulations by an archaic government whose members of Congress don't even know how to log into Facebook. I don't think these are the people who should be controlling AI.

1:18:52Before I let you go, Congresswoman, another sensitive issue. I want to ask you about some comments you made on the Lindsay Clancy trial. She was charged, as we all know, with murdering her three little children. But the case ended with a mistrial. You know she says she should face a public execution. What's the motivation behind such an extreme suggestion? Well, to deter other people from murdering and killing their kids. And I went toe-to-toe with her attorney last night in the press over this. If this case had happened in South Carolina, Wolf, she would have likely faced a firing squad because that's what the death penalty can serve up in South Carolina.

1:19:32There are millions of women out there that have had postpartum, and they don't go murdering their children. And I think that is an important conversation to have about the available resources for women who've had postpartum. I had it with my second child. It is a serious condition. But that is not an excuse for killing your children. It is an explanation, but it is not an excuse. Congresswoman Nancy Macy, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you, Wolf. And to our viewers, thanks also for joining us. We'll see you back here tomorrow morning at 10 Eastern. Inside Politics starts after a quick break.

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