NY AG Takes Over Cornell Rape Case 

0:00Every day, animals across the country face abuse and neglect. And every day, the ASPCA shows up to rescue animals in crisis. But they can't do it alone. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. Become a donor today to provide the care and shelter these animals urgently need. And for a limited time, the ASPCA will send you a free gift as a special thank you. Visit ASPCA.org slash need. This holiday, all plans, even unlimited, are just$15 a month. A holiday deal this good obviously deserves an enormously expensive holiday song, like All I Want. Right. Okay, we can afford that. You know what? Forget the music budget.

0:43We're going to stick with whatever's in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for a 12-month plan required,$15 per month equivalent, taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. Happening now, demands for accountability. The Cornell rape investigation is now in the hands of the state's attorney general. As new reporting reveals one of the men allegedly involved claimed that he was a victim of sexual misconduct. We'll talk with Jane Doe's attorney coming up.

1:20Pamela Brown: And there's more breaking news. September slowdown. Only 29 ,000 jobs added last month, falling far short of expectations. what it could mean for you, plus a captain's courage. Hear from the pilot who was attacked while fighting off his co-pilot in midair. Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in the Situation Room.

1:54This is CNN Breaking News.

1:56Pamela Brown: We begin this hour with breaking news. The New York State Attorney General Letitia James says her office has officially now opened a criminal investigation into the alleged 2024 gang rape at Cornell University. Governor Kathy Hochul announced last night Letitia James would be taking over a special prosecutor in the case. And just moments ago, Governor Hochul said she will not let this case be swept under the rug. When the Tompkins County District Attorney announced that he was reopening the case, he pointed to Jane Doe's statement and said it did not establish that a crime had occurred. But new reporting raises serious questions about the information his office relied upon when it made that decision.

2:44That's why I believe this case demands a special prosecutor who will provide a fresh and thorough review of all the facts, including the information that has recently come to light.

2:55Pamela Brown: All this comes as new details have indeed surfaced, including what Jane Doe told campus police at the time, raising more serious questions about the university's initial investigation. CNN has obtained images of a Snapchat group chat exchange during the alleged assault, and they show a picture of Jane Doe in a room at the fraternity house, a source close to the case tells CNN the conversation taking place on the app, which deletes messages, suggests other photos or videos might have been recovered had there been more of a thorough criminal investigation. And earlier this week, the New York Times obtained more than 1 ,000 documents detailing the university's investigation.

3:40Pamela Brown: The Times reports that according to those records, the men involved in the alleged gang rape denied any wrongdoing. Four reportedly acknowledged having sexual contact with the women, but said it had been consensual, while the others denied participating in sexual encounters. On campus, the fallout continues. Several students spoke up at a public hearing last night, severely criticizing Cornell's handling of the alleged assault. Here's what one student had to say. Survivors need to know that when they come forward with their story, somebody will listen and a broader institution will act upon it.

4:21Through this event, we have witnessed the complete opposite. We have seen a total lack of agency and accountability in especially the way our Title IX office handles sexual assault cases.

4:36Pamela Brown: CNN correspondent Gloria Gloria Pasbina was at this news conference with the New York governor and the attorney general. So, Gloria, what are the big takeaways from your perspective? Well, Wolf, the governor and the state attorney general not missing any words when speaking about this case. The governor calling it disturbing. And the state attorney general, Letitia James, is saying that this is now officially a criminal investigation. At the heart of all of this, according to the governor, is the fact that there has been so much conflicting information that's come out to the light in the past few days, including the fact that Jane Doe made statements to police in which she specifically said she believed she had been raped.

5:23We know that those statements appear to have been left out of a statement that was then condensed and provided to the district attorney, which was the basis of his reasoning for not pursuing criminal charges back in 2024. The governor is saying that she has lost faith in the fact that this district attorney, I should say, could conduct this criminal investigation in a way that will reveal the truth and answers that the public is demanding. Also significant development in the last few minutes, Wolf, Governor Hochul getting behind legislation in New York, which would close what advocates here refer to as the sexual assault loophole.

6:09This is a significant development because this law has been in the works in New York State for years, and they have been unable to pass it. So this expression of the support from the governor is significant. She's throwing her support, saying she wants to see this law change. And what the law would address would be the question of consent. That is going to be a central part of this investigation. Did Jane Doe consent? Was she able to provide consent? in this incident back in October 2024. Also significantly, Wolf, I asked the governor whether she believed that Cornell University president should resign at this stage.

6:51She said that she did not think she had enough information just yet, but she has spoken with the university president and told them that she wanted the university to hire an outside counsel to conduct an investigation into how they handle this. So she stopped short of saying that the president of the university should resign. Same for the district attorney. She also said she did not have information to call for that just yet. And also significantly, state attorney general Letitia James saying she's launching this investigation. But as of today, she has not yet directly spoken with the Tompkins district attorney, Matthew Van Houten, who is the one who made the original decision not to bring criminal charges.

7:36Wolf?

7:37Pamela Brown: Gloria, what else are we learning from that New York Times reporting about what the men involved said at the time? Well, we have been poring over some of these documents that we have been able to obtain so far. The New York Times has additional documents. And part of what we have been able to see is some of what the men said during this Title IX investigation. Remember, Title IX is supposed to be a confidential proceeding. But some of these documents have come out publicly, and you can see that there are varying versions from all of the students involved, different levels of involvement, different versions of what they say went on.

8:21They often contradict themselves. There are some of the students that have been accused that said to the Title IX investigators, you know, I was only in the room for a few minutes. I wish I had done something to stop what was going on. I didn't realize what was going on. And I think part of what both the governor and the attorney general discussed today is that there is clearly something wrong within that Title IX process. The governor also spoke about that, the fact that this has not been transparent. And part of that is because federal laws prohibit some of the information to be released to the public, privacy laws.

9:03But she said that the Title IX process in this specific case appeared to not have gone in the way that it is intended to go on.

9:15Pamela Brown: Indeed, lots of new information emerging. Gloria Pasbino, thank you very, very much, Pamela. All right, now we continue our coverage with a Situation Room special report. Jane Doe's attorney, Thomas Jufra, joins us live. Thomas, thank you for being here. You have been listening to that press conference with New York Governor Kathy Hochul and Attorney General Letitia James to discuss the appointment of a special prosecutor to your client's case. Tell me more about what your reaction is to what you heard there and also the fact that Governor wants to change that New York law that a lot of people say is a loophole.

9:50Well, I think it's been an incredibly positive development. I was completely disappointed by the district attorney's reaction following this case. I think he changed his story a lot of times. He tried to cover, save face. And frankly, I was planning on writing a letter to the governor myself today requesting that she appoint a special prosecutor. And she saved me having to do that. And I was thrilled that she did because she recognized clearly that something was going on up in Ithaca, New York, that was inappropriate, either with the university police, with the district attorney's office. And then she took the steps on her own.

10:35And that's to her credit. And I'm happy that she did that to remedy that. And she's looking out for the people of the state of New York. And that's wonderful. And I'm appreciative of Letitia James also getting involved because I think somebody outside of Tompkins County needs to be looking into this case. I mean, one of the things that struck me is there's not much in Tompkins County other than Cornell. And I think there was a lot of protection of the university and its reputation. And I don't like the word cover up, but it feels like a cover up was going on. You say you feel like there was a cover-up going on.

11:11From what we have gathered, the DA has said he did not receive information from the police department where your client, according to documents we've obtained, said she believed she was 100 % raped. What is your reaction to that? I was surprised. And the other problem with that was the Cornell police said, well, we did provide it to the district attorney. So the question is, who's telling the truth? Are the Cornell police lying or is the district attorney lying? Somebody is. Because in that statement, which I couldn't get because it was police investigation materials, she clearly said, I was 100 % raped.

11:52She clearly says she was hit and there was violence utilized. All that was sanitized out of the six-page police report. But in any event, I would have expected the full report, everything that happened, to go to the DA. And that either happened or it didn't happen. I don't know the answer to that, but it's very odd to me what went on. Very odd. I have many more questions for you, but I just first want to take a moment to pause. It's been quite a week. There has been so much attention on this case. How is your client doing right now? She's not doing well. She's under siege on social media where people are trying to identify her.

12:34Some false court postings attempting to identify her and other women were posted. Various women have been identified as Jane Doe incorrectly. That's been really difficult. And she's gone through a lot. And I've been very disappointed about how I see people, some people, the minority, clearly, to identify her, shame her, and things like that. But the one thing that's come out of this that I feel has been very positive is the overwhelming support. I think I've received, at this point, three to 500 emails of support for Jane Doe. And I'm collecting them for her. And I'm sending them to her and that's been the real positive the overwhelming support of people all over the world and i've gotten emails from people in south america i've gotten people emails from people in europe have really helped to know that she's not alone because throughout this process she felt like she was alone well that's a common feeling and in fact later on in the show we have someone who works for rain which is the network to help sexual assault survivors and they say they have seen a huge increase in calls this week from others who believe that they were sexually assaulted in the wake of your civil suit.

13:52Going back to this case, have you heard anything about a grand jury being convened? What's the latest on that? Well, I heard from the district attorney in Tompkins County shortly after the lawsuit was filed saying he wanted Jane Doe to testify before a grand jury in the month of october and i paused when i heard that because look i'm an experienced trial lawyer i've tried well over 150 cases in my life i couldn't prepare a case in a month and do a good job in presenting it so that raised the question in my mind and then after i had this conversation with well email this was to cooperate he goes out and files his his press release basically throwing my client under the bus so i had a real issue with this district attorney You say he was throwing your client under the bus because he framed it as everything was consensual, correct?

14:44Is that what you mean by that? Okay. That's exactly what I mean by that. Would your client be willing to go in front of a grand jury to testify? I'm sorry? Would your client be willing to go in front of a grand jury to testify? My client absolutely wants justice in this case, both civilly and criminally. She will work with Letitia James, do whatever Letitia James needs from her to cooperate with her investigators. She wants justice, and she's happy that somebody who shares that desire is now involved in the prosecution. The New York Times is reporting that according to documents from the university's initial Title IX investigation, the men involved denied any wrongdoing.

15:25Four of the men reportedly acknowledged having sexual contact with their client, but said the interactions were consensual, while others denied participating in any sexual encounters. Lawyers for two of the men have since issued statements denying any wrongdoing. I want to give you an opportunity to respond to that. Well, I've handled these cases for 30 years, and I've handled cases against Harvey Weinstein. I've handled cases against Sean Combs. I've handled cases against Dr. Hayden. I've handled at least 25 cases against Darius Padu. None of those guys have ever said, I raped somebody. I did something inappropriate.

16:02I've handled hundreds of these cases. There's one of two responses. A, didn't happen, or B, it was consensual. That's the way it always is. It's never C, I raped somebody. So this is par for the course. What I've heard throughout my career, I would expect nothing different. In documents we obtained, Jane Doe told police that she did engage in consensual sexual activity in the beginning of the night and then it evolved into non-consensual sexual activity. At what point in the evening did it cross into non-consensual for her? I don't think it was ever consensual. She showed up at the Kai Firehouse heavily intoxicated.

16:42There was testimony not just from the people involved in the assault, but there was a lot of testimony from people who were around that time, saw her that day, and And by all accounts, she was completely, completely intoxicated. She couldn't consent to anything. So I don't think she ever consented and was incapable of consenting because of the level of intoxication and the fact that she was plied with drugs, she couldn't consent to anything. So, but just to be clear, because in the police documents that we obtained, she did say that she was pretty okay with the initial threesome that she had. She had a crush on one of the men and wanted to date him.

17:23When she went into the fraternity house, she had been drinking. I believe she said she was a 5-6 out of 10. And then there was drug use after that. So what would you say to the defendant's lawyers who may argue that how would their client have known when that line was crossed into non-consensual? How do you respond to that? I think the testimony from people who were not Jane Doe, who were there at that time, said she was much more than a six. And a six is pretty intoxicated in my view of the world. Testimony was she was slurring her words even before she got to the Chi-Fi house, that she was stumbling around.

18:04I think most people, particularly a bunch of college kids, a bunch of frat boys, know when somebody's intoxicated. You can tell if somebody's drunk by the manner in which they speak, the manner in which they present themselves. For them to claim, oh, well, there's some bright line. look, I've been on this planet for half a decade. I can know if somebody's intoxicated. I know you're familiar with New York law. It's very specific. This is what the governor said she wants to change. But it says that sexual abuse can be charged when, quote, the other person is incapable of consent by reason of being physically helpless.

18:37Did your client feel physically helpless the entire night? Or was there a certain point where that changed into physical helplessness? Just help us better understand your view of this. Well, the problem with laws are they're not very clear. Logically, you would think if somebody is heavily intoxicated on drugs and you rape them, it's a rape because they can't consent. But be that as it may, I think that there was testimony that she couldn't escape. I believe one of the things she said is she felt like she was surrounded by a pack of lions and they kept grabbing her and doing things to her. I mean, that's being trapped.

19:19That's physically helpless. You have five grown men and one woman and surrounded and forcing themselves on her. That's physically helpless in my mind. In that same reporting from The Times I mentioned, I want to get an opportunity for you to respond to this. One of the men accused told the Title IX investigators that he was a, quote, victim of sexual misconduct because your client gave him oral sex when he was too incapacitated to consent. what do you say to that that that one of the defendants in your suit is saying he was actually the victim in this scenario i think it's ridiculous is what i think um it's he's okay he'll be the first person in the planet to to make that claim that some woman forced himself on well i shouldn't say that because it does happen but it's just under the circumstances it's so self-serving that he is saying that, it's just ludicrous.

20:16I don't credit it at all. And then he's there with his five fraternity brothers having oral sex and all these other people are doing various things. And, oh, he was not consenting. It's absurd. CNN has obtained images of a group chat from that night that included a photo of your client at the fraternity house the night of the alleged assault. Can you shed any more light on any of the photos taken of your client or videos that night? And what else might have been in that chat? Well, what I can tell you is this. That Snapchat went out to, I believe there's over 50 members of this fraternity. It was leaked to Ms.

20:56Doe. And from what I understand, there are multiple comments. We only have the two pages. But one thing we do know is there was a photograph taken that appears to have been taken in the Chi-Fi house. That leads me to believe there were other photographs available. That leads me also to believe that there are videos available. Are they available today? No, because I think that due to the lack of investigation, anything like that is long gone into the atmosphere and we'll never see it. And that was the problem with the lack of investigation. If they had gone in, grabbed these phones, pulled the data, they could have found stuff.

21:32They could have found evidence. That's doing an investigation. Now that evidence is stale. Have you been in contact with Snapchat to try to get more evidence? Well, I have not. That's very difficult to get. It's difficult to get phone records. It's difficult to get records of texts. It's very challenging how that works. So I'm hoping that with Leticia James investigation, she'll be able to get it because she'll have a lot more authority than Tom Chifford, the lawyer in New York City. I want to give you an opportunity to respond to sort of the timeline here that's been laid out publicly. There was a few weeks after the alleged assaults happened that she went to police.

22:16In the interim, our understanding is from our reporting is that she had expressed interest in going back to that fraternity for a party and she was told not to go. and she also went to a health care provider and told them that she contracted a UTI in a traumatic way. Can you share more about this experience and just shed more light on that timeline and what was her evolution of understanding of what she believed was sexual assault? Well, I think what your next witness, your next guest could probably explain it better than I can, But first thing with anybody who's an abuse survivor is denial. Nobody wants to be labeled with the idea of they were a victim of a sexual assault.

22:59It's just not the way the human mind works. Now, that's phase one. And she was in denial about it. And then phase two, she shamed. How did I let this happen to me? And then what she started to do is to record the messages with one of these guys to try to get information. And she did get information because he apologized to her, said that things got out of hand. And then in the interim, she's trying to get help from somebody who's outside of this group of college students. And she goes to the Cornell Health. And this is failure one post assault. She complains that she got a UTI from a traumatic event.

23:34Now, you don't get UTIs from traumatic event. She was going for STD testing. Now, that person who she met with at Cornell Health, instead of doing what's normally done, which is send her to get a rape kit which they could not do at Cornell Health and remember this two days after the assault there was still DNA available to be found do a physical exam document the injuries based on her testimony in the title nine there were physical injuries they could have been documented they should have been documented and three they should have sent her to how to speak with somebody who knows how to speak to people who've been victims of sexual assault to document what happened.

24:09That should have been done. None of it was done. All that was done at Cornell Health was they said, you should go talk to somebody. That's it. That was failure one. And then following this, she came into the realization that, look, I was raped. I know I was raped and I have to own it, accept it. And then she cooperated with the police. All right. And before we go, I just want to read what Cornell University said in its most recent statement. And it said that we will continue to examine and strengthen our policies to ensure we are doing all we can to foster a culture where sexual misconduct is never tolerated.

24:45Those who come forward are supported and individuals found responsible through our processes are held accountable. Very quickly, Thomas, I just want to get your response to that. Are you satisfied with how the university is responding now in this moment? What's your reaction? Well, I think they have to respond in a manner now because they've gotten such bad press about this and now they're taking steps but the interesting thing that i've had is i've had a lot of interaction and people have reached out to me where they've been victims of sexual assault and several at cornell university so i don't know what's going on with the culture up there i think it needs to be looked at i think that if they're going to be serious about it uh they should i mean there's a statistic out there a report that 30 percent of all cornell undergrads have been subjected to unwanted sexual conduct i mean that is a shocking number for me where i went to school i would have been shocked if it was anywhere near that so i think there's a problem up in ithaca i think there's a lot of problems up in ithaca and maybe this will shed some light on it and it can be a better place look cornell university is an excellent institution but the people who are involved in this crime were not excellent people and the people who are handling it didn't handle it properly.

26:03But that doesn't take away that it's a good school. I have family members who went there, but it can be improved. We can always improve. And hopefully this will make us some difference so this doesn't happen to another woman at any university. All right. Thank you so much, Thomas Jufra, for all of your time. And I'm really sorry your client is going through so much with harassment online. That's just completely uncalled for. Thank you. It's horrible. It's really horrible. Thank you. Well, if you or anyone you know is struggling after a sexual assault, the National Sexual Assault Hotline is available 24-7 to help.

26:38The number is 1-800-656-HOPE. There are also resources at rain.org. Wolf?

26:45Pamela Brown: And still ahead, a CNN exclusive, never-before-seen video of Luigi Mangione's arrest. You'll see it here. Stand by. And if there's more breaking news, the latest jobs report falls far short of expectations as unemployment in the United States rises, what this means for the economy as a whole. Lots going on. You're in the Situation Room.

27:16At Farmers, we go out of our way to keep you in the know. Like by singing, everything for emphasis. That, and by providing you with coverage on a page, and easy to understand language. So you know what's covered and what's not. No confusing legalese that no one gets. And full transparency. We do have to put a disclaimer at the end of this ad though. Just being honest. That's what you get when You have farmers. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Learn more at Farmers.com. Underwritten by farmers, truck or fire insurance, exchanges or affiliate. Products not available in every state. I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast.

27:49You may have noticed gambling doesn't require a casino anymore. You can just open up your phone. It's designed to keep us coming back or maybe never even leaving in the first place. We're going to talk to Dr. Timothy Fong, co-director of UCLA's gambling studies program. You're going to learn what your brain is really chasing when you place a bet, and also importantly, how to keep the game from playing you. Gambling addiction, gambling disorder is the hidden addiction. You can't smell it. You can't taste it. You can't see it. You can't have a urine drug test. Who are we talking about here, Professor?

28:21Who's the most likely demographic to be affected by this?

28:24Pamela Brown: Literally any single human on Earth. Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now wherever you get your podcasts. Breaking news. The job market here in the United States appears to be cooling off, with new data showing only 29 ,000 positions added in September. And that's short of the 90 ,000 that economists expected. And far below the 133 ,000 jobs added in August. And with barely a month before the midterm elections, the unemployment rate inched up to 4.2%. CNN Business senior reporter David Goldman is joining us right now. So what are these numbers, David, tell us about who's hiring and who's not?

29:06Yeah, well, this is an okay number. We shouldn't make too much out of it. 44 ,000 is around where we've been on average. So, you know, it's a little bit less than that, not too much. Now, we did lose 60 ,000 jobs that we thought we had created over the last two months. Turns out we didn't. And so that is pretty disappointing, Wolf. But 4.2 % unemployment, that could actually mean something positive for the economy. It means people are entering the labor force. And there is some evidence that we have that there is some growth, particularly in sectors that are affected by AI, right? All those data centers mean more construction jobs, more trades, more manufacturing.

29:48And this is something that we've seen that's fairly positive. Now, it does have some downsides, AI, too. It's been really rocking the financial world and particularly insurance. We've lost 90 ,000 insurance jobs over the course of the last year because of automation, because of AI. This is something I really want to highlight. 7 % is the new unemployment rate for black Americans. That jump that we saw from 6 % to 7 % was the highest we saw since COVID. If you erase COVID, and we all wish we could, it would have been the highest since 2012. So this is something that could potentially be a canary in the coal mine.

30:29And another thing to focus on is what is going on with our paychecks. 3 % growth, that is far less than 3.4%. Wolf, inflation is eating our paychecks.

30:41Pamela Brown: All right, David Goldman reporting for us. Thank you very, very much, Pamela. All right, Wolf, coming up, we're hearing from the hero, Fly Dubai Captain, for the first time as new video shows the moments passengers took action to save him and everyone on that flight. I was doing this for my life, but at the same time, I knew that I cannot let everybody else die.

31:16Pamela Brown: Happening now, we're learning more and more about the terrifying moments aboard that Fly Dubai flight and the courage that brought the plane in for a safe emergency landing. Here is the celebrated landing just minutes after passengers stormed the cockpit to rescue the flight and the captain who allegedly was attacked by his co-pilot. Go out! Go out! Take him out!

31:57Pamela Brown: Passengers pull the co-pilot out of the cockpit and restrain him and give medical aid to the severely wounded captain. That rescue was only possible because he somehow managed to unlock the cockpit door. That captain from India described the ordeal to Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Listen. Sir, I've been flying planes for the last 17 years, and I've been a captain for the last 11 years. And even if I shut my eyes, I know what is happening in the plane. And when I was on the ground, I realized that the aircraft was falling down. And I knew in that moment, one last push, Smeet. Just do it. The door is right there.

32:36And even at that time, he was beating me up. And then I just opened it, sir. And then everybody came. And everybody else also played an equal role in this. I was telling, sir, that I was doing this for my life.

32:48Pamela Brown: But at the same time, I knew that I cannot let everybody else die. CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nick Robertson is over at Ben-Gurion Airport, just outside Tel Aviv in Israel. Nick, it's just remarkable how the courage of that captain and the passengers who actually got involved saved so many people. Yeah, could any of us ever imagine being in that situation where you are aware of what's happening around you, but you're so weak because you've been attacked, you just don't, not even sure if you can move, yet summoning, summoning up the courage, the will, the struggle to get that door open, knowing as well as he says there, it's not just about his life that's on the line, but everyone on board the plane.

33:36He has enough knowledge of what's happening, fills the plane in that dive, has to find a way to help. And of course, him unlocking the door does break, you know, break the ability of what we've heard from the prime minister here, Benjamin Netanyahu, saying that this co-pilot, the other pilot on board, actually wanted to crash the plane with everyone on board of it. He said there was jihadist trained. That's what Prime Minister Netanyahu says, that he wanted a sort of a 9-11 type event. Not clear if Prime Minister Netanyahu means that the other pilot, the attacker, had a target in mind to fly into in Israel, but very clear that he wanted to crash that plane and bring everyone down.

34:22And here you have this pilot. Now we actually get to hear his words, just how weak he was. And that we know as well from the dentist who treated him when he was pulled out of that melee, pulled out of the cockpit. He had bled out so much, being attacked by an axe, apparently, that his blood pressure was dropping. He was close to dying. So this is why people are calling him a hero. He said that this was his dream job. I think And people had described the pilot as a jovial man, a family man, a father with two young children.

34:54Pamela Brown: Prior to this, now they're going to describe him as a hero. And we've heard that from officials of all countries, Wolf. A true hero indeed. Our Nick Robertson over at Ben Gurion Airport. Quick question, Nick. The Israelis who were on that flight to Tel Aviv, where you are right now to Ben Gurion Airport, they had that emergency landing in Saudi Arabia. Have they reached Israel yet? Yeah, they've reached. Most people have sort of been able to get home, reunite with their families, recount what happened, relive, unfortunately, the trauma, but also reconnect with their loved ones and have the whole families get some relief from from from that terrible, terrible trauma.

35:36All right.

35:36Pamela Brown: Nick Robertson reporting. Thank you very, very much. All right. Well, coming up a CNN exclusive. the moments after a notorious fugitive was found. Newly unsealed body cam video of Luigi Mangione's arrest.

35:55Now to a CNN exclusive. CNN has newly unsealed body camera footage of Luigi Mangione's arrest inside a Pennsylvania McDonald's. And it came just days after he shot and killed UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in New York City. The video also shows the moment an officer found a gun linked to the crime scene. Mangione pleaded guilty in August of federal charges in the killing. CNN correspondent Kara Scannell takes us through the footage.

36:32Newly unsealed police body cam footage first seen on CNN shows the moments Altoona, Pennsylvania police officers handcuffed Luigi Mangione and took him into custody, ending a five-day manhunt. Keep your hands on the wall. Left hand first and your right hand back.

36:56A New York state judge unsealed the footage at the request of CNN after Mangione pleaded guilty to federal stalking charges and admitted to fatally shooting UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. The videos were played during a suppression hearing last December, but have not been publicly released until now. Officers responded to a 911 call on December 9, 2024, that the suspected New York City CEO shooter may be in a McDonald's restaurant.

37:23Pamela Brown: How you doing? Can you put your mask down real quick for me? Yeah, sure. Appreciate it. Thank you. The officers immediately thought it was him. I told you, man. The best shooter checked in to also fake. Officers confront Mangione about a fake driver's license bearing the name Mark Rosario. Is that your name, Mark Rosario? Rosario? No, sir. What's your real name?

37:51Luigi. Luigi? You have your notebook here? I'll write it down. Give him the date of birth then, too.

37:59Pamela Brown: How does my phone call you? L-U-I-G-I. L-U-I. G.I. Mangione? M-A-N? G.I. M-A-N? Why are you? I clearly shouldn't have. A search reveals a gun magazine. Hey, looky. It's him, dude. It's him. 100%. About 10 minutes later, Mangione is taken to the police station. Mangiani is asked to remove layers of clothing so he can be searched more thoroughly, while another officer unzips his backpack and finds a gun that authorities later link to the crime scene. There's a backscarf. There's a weapon. So, you want me to clear it? Let's just clear it. Clear it? Yes.

39:03There's another magazine that was hidden in this underwear.

39:12Silence, sir. She also finds Mangione's handwritten notes. Looks like a journal. I would. while a different officer ticks off the evidence, including a checklist. He has a handgun, a compressor, his cell phone is in a Faraday bag. He has a checklist for today. Tomorrow he's supposed to do an intel check-in and a survival kit. These videos were critical to the defense's argument to try to get some of this key evidence, including the gun and the diary, thrown out. The New York state judge, though, had a rule to allow that in. Manjuni then ultimately pleaded guilty to federal stalking charges. The question of what happens with the state case is still up for debate.

39:56A judge is expected to make a decision on that later this year. Back to you guys. All right, Kara Scannell, thank you so much. Wolf?

40:04Pamela Brown: And here's what's coming up all new right at the top of the hour. The attorney for the Tennessee inmate who survived two lethal injections is now calling on the governor to commute her death sentence. The latest on Krista Pike's condition. that's all new in the next hour.

40:48per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms.

40:56Pamela Brown: Happening now, a new report showing slower than expected job growth in September. It's a critical look at the U.S. economy just 32 days before the midterm elections, and it's the last jobs report before the November 3rd election day. This news comes as the president is heading to Alabama later today after stops in Texas and Oklahoma, where he made this plea to voters. Listen. When I'm not on the ballot, people don't go and vote so much. Pretend I'm running, please. Just pretend. Because I am on the ballot. And if we don't win, they'll end up impeaching me. A quick note to our viewers, you can follow real-time early voting numbers at the bottom of your screen, along with business data, as we get closer and closer to Election Day.

41:43Pamela Brown: Joining us now here in the Situation Room is CNN Washington Bureau Chief and CNN Political Director David Chalian. David, how do Republicans craft their message given these latest jobs numbers? Well, it depends on which Republicans because the president has sort of been, when he talks about the economy, just talks it up in this rosy picture in a way that voters are not actually experiencing it. By the way, we saw that kind of thing happen in the Biden administration, too, where you're talking about certain statistics, but it's not you're not tapping into the experience that people are feeling every day.

42:16But Republican candidates on the ballot are trying to point to some of the things they've done legislatively in this in this session, in this term, to address some of those needs, like passing in the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, the no tax on tips, no tax on overtime. But it just gets overwhelmed a lot by the president being a little dissonant. And instead of touting accomplishments, more just saying the economy is great, it's the best ever, and you should be so happy.

42:42Pamela Brown: What do you make of President Trump's message in Oklahoma? Oklahoma last night, vote so I won't be impeached. Yeah, this is something he's been talking about for the better part of this midterm year, Wolf. He is using that as a way to motivate and energize Republican voters, that they would want to come out of the woodwork to prevent him from experiencing a third impeachment as president. And he sees that as a tool to try to do that. Because one of the things we see consistently in the polls is that the energy and enthusiasm is really on the Democratic side. They are the most motivated voters out there.

43:14They can't wait to get to the polls and cast their ballot. Republicans, a little less so. And I think when you hear Donald Trump say something like, you've got to make sure I don't get impeached again, that is aimed at trying to gin up some of enthusiasm on the Republican side.

43:26Pamela Brown: As you know, President Trump recently commented on how the midterm elections affect the party in power. Listen to this. For whatever reason, I don't understand it. Nobody does. Nobody's been able to explain it. Whoever wins the presidency, Republican or Democrat, automatically does poorly in the midterms. I don't know why you know that, but we shouldn't. So what is the data telling us right now, David, about how why this administration is facing an uphill climb? And is it strictly tied to President Trump's low approval numbers? And they're pretty low. Yeah, they are. We should say Donald Trump is right about what history shows us.

44:07I mean, if you look in modern American political history, only two midterm elections, 1998 and 2002, did the president, the incumbent party that had the White House actually gain seats. Right. Usually there is a backlash against the incumbent president's party in these midterms. To your point, I don't think it's strictly about Donald Trump's low approval ratings, though I think that is an enormous factor in this. I think it is also about the economic pessimism that Americans are feeling right now and the sense what you hear from voters over and over again in focus groups, talking to sources who run these campaigns.

44:40There's just a wide swath of voters out there who believe the folks in charge in Washington are not getting it. they seem to be able to take care of themselves or an elite class, but they're not understanding the economic existence that they are dealing with on the ground in their daily lives. And that disconnect, I mean, that's not just a partisan thing. Well, if that can have an impact against incumbents in both parties, this whole notion of just like you guys in charge and the Republicans are in charge, so we will suffer more on their

45:08Pamela Brown: side, don't get what I'm going through in my life. They're in charge of the House, the Senate and the White House. Exactly. At least for now. Yeah. David Chelyan, thank you. Sure. Very, very much. Pamela. Actually, before I go to Pamela, I want to take a moment to congratulate Pamela Brown, my co-anchor, my very good friend, on a very exciting streaming series that's about to debut on CNN.com. And it's called Body Language by CNN and spotlights very important women's health issues and experiences. Watch this preview. My body was telling me something. Something is not right. I couldn't get out of bed.

45:42My pain level is on a 10. I would go to a doctor and I would hear. You're just anxious. Piss in your head. You're just a hypochondria. And who would lie about that? It was hard to be taken seriously. Nobody had real answers for me. And I was afraid to talk to anyone about it. I didn't even know how to talk to my husband about it. I didn't know how to talk to my friends about it. I felt embarrassed. I was ashamed to need help. And I can't imagine how many other women are out there feeling the exact same way that I did. And that's why I want to do this. I'm Pamela Brown, and this is Body Language by CNN.

46:13Pamela Brown: So Pamela, this is obviously very, very personal for you. I'm very proud of you. This is so important, not only to women, but to men as well. It is. That's an important point. And Wolf, you know, on this show, we've been doing the Women's Health Watch. We cover a lot of stories around women's health. So this is really an extension of that. And I want women and men to walk away feeling empowered that they have information about topics that have historically been taboo around women's health that we didn't talk about. And so we're really hoping to demystify these issues and have these really honest, open, candid conversations that we did.

46:50And, you know, it's really important to me that women feel like they see themselves in these other women we interviewed and that they feel seen, heard, and validated because so often, as we've discussed, Wolf, on this show, women feel dismissed when they have issues and they go to the doctor and they seek help. I know I have personally. I talk about it very openly in this series, and I'm just so excited for the launch.

47:12Pamela Brown: I'm excited too because every time you do one of these excellent, very excellent reports, I learn something important. If you have a mother or grandmother, you have a wife or a daughter, and you're a man, you want to learn about this because it is so, so important. I've already told my husband, get ready. You have to watch all these episodes so you can learn what it goes through. And I want to watch them all too. All right, stand by. The first four episodes of Body Language by CNN will premiere next Thursday, October 8th exclusively for our all access subscribers. And just a quick follow up on that.

47:44It will be free. The first drop will be free for everyone.

47:46Pamela Brown: Free is good. Yeah, free is good. And the next hour of the Situation Room starts right now. Happening now, breaking news, deeply disturbed. New York Governor Kathy Hochul is sharply criticizing Cornell's handling of an alleged gang rape on campus as the state opens an official criminal investigation into what happened. Plus, New information from Jane Doe's attorney. I just spoke with him last hour. Hear why he believes his client never consented to anything that night. And legal limbo. What's next for the Tennessee woman who's been on death row for 30 years after she survived her own execution?

48:26Pamela Brown: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer with Pamela Brown, and you're in the Situation Room. CNN Breaking News. And we begin this hour with the breaking news. The 2024 alleged gang rape at a fraternity house over at Cornell University on the campus is now, quote, an active criminal investigation being overseen by the New York State Attorney General's office. New York Governor Kathy Hochul tapped the State Attorney General Letitia James to serve as a special prosecutor in the case last night, saying she had lost faith in the county prosecutor's ability to, quote, fairly oversee the investigation.

49:08Pamela Brown: Just a short while ago, Governor Huckel told reporters that Jane Doe was failed by people and institutions responsible for protecting her, quote, at every turn. And last hour, I spoke with Jane Doe's attorney, and I asked him about documents we obtained in which Jane Doe told police that she did engage in consensual sexual activity at the beginning of night, but then it evolved into non-consensual sexual activity. Here's part of our conversation. In documents we obtained, Jane Doe told police that she did engage in consensual sexual activity in the beginning of the night, and then it evolved into non-consensual sexual activity.

49:48At what point in the evening did it cross into non-consensual for her? I don't think it was ever consensual. She showed up at the Chi-Fi house heavily intoxicated. there was testimony not just from the people involved in the assault, but there was a lot of testimony from people who were around that time, saw her that day, and by all accounts, she was completely, completely intoxicated. She couldn't consent to anything. So I don't think she ever consented and was incapable of consenting because of the level of intoxication and the fact that she was plied with drugs, she couldn't consent to anything.

50:29Joining us now is CNN correspondent Gloria Pazmino, who was at the news conference with the governor and state attorney general. Gloria, what else did the governor say about all of this? Well, she was very clear that over the past few days, as a result of what has emerged publicly, that she did not believe the Tompkins County District Attorney could possibly carry out this investigation. And she said that she had lost faith in his ability to do that. And that was the reason why she signed this executive order appointing the state attorney general Leticia James to take over as special prosecutor in the investigation.

51:06The governor also made it clear she believes that something simply is not right here. She says that there's a lot of confusion between what Jane Doe told police investigators, the information that was eventually handed to the district attorney, the reasoning behind the district attorney's decision not to bring charges back when the incident took place in 2024. And so there's a real effort now that we are seeing this public outcry, you know, this demand for accountability and scrutiny over the district attorney's office, but also over Cornell University and how they handle this situation. The governor calling for transparency, saying that people need answers and also saying that victims should feel that if they go to the police to report a crime, especially a sex crime, that they are going to at least get not only spoken to, but get an investigation, which we have learned in the past few days that the district attorney apparently didn't even speak directly to Jane Doe when she reported this to Cornell police.

52:12Also significantly, Pam, and I think the interview you just did with Jane Doe's attorney is so important because he talked about this concept of consent, right? Jane Doe's ability to consent, whether she could have consented, considering that when she showed up at Chi-Fi's fraternity house that night, she was already intoxicated. That has been the topic of much debate here in New York for years. And they have tried to change the law when it comes to sexual assault statutes and what you need to prove in order to prosecute. And this question around how do you determine consent and can someone who has become willingly intoxicated provide consent?

53:00The governor is saying today that she is getting behind an effort to change that law that is significant. And we just got a statement from Cornell University also supporting the change in law. They said, quote, we fully support the appointment of a special prosecutor and efforts to change New York state's rape law and are committed to an independent external review of all aspects of how Cornell has handled this case. The legislative session will not begin until the new year, Pam. But it's clear that at least for now, there appears to be some momentum, certainly at least from the executive, Governor Kathy Hochul, to change that law.

53:39Pam? All right, Gloria Pasmino, thank you so much. And if you or anyone you know is struggling after a sexual assault, the National Sexual Assault Hotline is available 24-7 to help. The number is 1-800-656-HOPE. And there are also resources at rainwithtwoends.org.

53:55Pamela Brown: Also happening now, attorneys for Krista Pike, the Tennessee woman who was sentenced to death and survived two lethal injections, is in critical condition this morning and receiving life-saving medical care. Her attorneys are now calling for the Tennessee Governor, Bill Lee, to commute her sentence, saying she had endured punishment, quote, greater than any other person in the history of the American death penalty, end quote. Let's go live right now to CNN, senior national correspondent, Ryan Young. Ryan, there are so many questions about what happened and what went wrong. What are you learning this morning?

54:30Pamela Brown: Yeah, so many questions about this case, Wolf, and we're still asking those questions, trying to see if we can get anyone in the government to step forward with what happens next. We know all the executions for the state have now been pushed past this year. And of course, they're going to do a total review of how we ended up here. But for Krista Pike and her attorneys, they were warning about this days before this execution even took place. They were even saying the fact that she had small veins would play a role in this. At one point, she was even telling the doctors in the room where to put the needle in her shoulder.

54:59This went on for quite some time. And that second dose was administered 40 minutes after the first one, so you can understand why the people in the room who were witnessing this thought this was astonishing. Let's take a listen to her lawyers talking about the pain their client went through. After having endured solitary confinement for more than 20 years and a full attempt to kill her by lethal injection, Krista has endured punishment greater than any other person in the history of the American death penalty. It's such an unknown. What was conscious? What will be remembered? What damage may have occurred to her brain from oxygen deprivation?

55:40We may never know what all she was suffering through, either because she can't remember it, she can't tell it, or it overwhelms her in such a way that, you know, sometimes pain and suffering affects people that way. That really was her biggest fear. It was not a fear of dying. It was a fear of a prolonged, painful, traumatic death. And that's what happened minus the death. Yeah, Wolf, once again, we continue to push to figure out what happens next in terms of what's going on with the state. But this is not the first time they've had issues. We're also checking on her condition. Once again, so many questions about how this moved forward.

56:17Pamela Brown: What a horrible story. Ryan Young reporting for us. Ryan, thank you very, very much. Pamela. All right, Wolf, breaking news. Just into CNN. Sources tell us President Trump is expected to name Jay Clayton as his czar of AI. Clayton is already the director of national intelligence. So let's go live now to CNN White House correspondent Elena Train. What more can you tell us about Jay Clayton in this appointment? Yeah, look, we're told that the president is expected to name Jay Clayton, as you mentioned, Pamela, as the White House's new AI czar, and that this announcement could come as early as today.

56:48Now, it's been known that the president has said he wanted to set up a new AI force and name a new czar to kind of oversee the administration's posture when it comes to artificial intelligence. Now, Clayton is currently the director of national intelligence. Before that, he was the top federal prosecutor in Manhattan and also served as the head of the Securities and Exchange Commission during the president's first term for the majority, I should say, of the president's first term. But all of this comes as we know that a lot of leaders in the AI space, tech CEOs as well, have been ringing the alarm bells about the potential risks that AI poses and also the guardrails that they believe need to be put in place in order to prevent such dangers from seeping into society.

57:33The president did invite many of these leaders to the White House for a meeting here on Tuesday, and they did ultimately sign what they're calling a commitment to self-policing their company's AI policies and models. I should note, we previously heard Jay Clayton, when he was going through his confirmation hearing, say that he believes that AI is a, quote, game changer and not only an opportunity, but a threat. Clayton said when something's both an opportunity and a threat, you better get your arms around it. Trump has now been kind of teasing this announcement of Clayton for some time now. He's saying that he would be making his decision soon, but that he believed that his candidate was an excellent candidate to lead the AI industry and be the White House's AI czar.

58:17I should say a White House official had told CNN that any personnel announcement will be announced directly by the president. Any reporting until then is baseless speculation. So we'll be standing by waiting to see when exactly this announcement will be made, Pamela. All right, Elena Train, thank you so much. Wolf.

58:33Pamela Brown: And still coming up, chaos in the cockpit. Stunning new video captures the moment passengers on the fly Dubai plane broke into the cockpit after the co-pilot attacked the pilot. And now we're hearing more from the heroic pilot who fought off the attacker. And then I just opened it, sir, and then everybody came. And everybody else also played an equal role in us. I was telling sir that I was doing this for my life, but at the same time, I knew that I cannot let everybody else die.

59:41When it comes to my policy, Farmers gives it to me straight, so there's no surprises. It's your coverage. You should never be confused. You hear that? An insurance provider with a conscience. We're a choir, but yes, we have that too. Straightforward coverage. you can literally understand. That's what you get when... You have farmers. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Learn more at Farmers.com. Underwritten by Farmers Truck or Fire Insurance Exchanges or Affiliate. Products not available in every state. Happening now, investigators have not yet identified. The Omani co-pilot accused of attacking his captain in the cockpit and nearly crashing the fly Dubai plane with more than 170 people on board.

1:00:25Pamela Brown: Go out. Go out. They can leave them home.

1:00:43Passengers pulled the co-pilot out of the cockpit and then restrained him and give medical aid to the severely wounded captain.

1:00:49Pamela Brown: That rescue was only possible because he somehow managed to unlock the cockpit door. That captain from India described the ordeal to his country's prime minister. Listen. And then I just opened it, sir, and then everybody came. And everybody else also played an equal role in this. I was telling, sir, that I was doing this for my life. But at the same time, I knew that I cannot let everybody else die. I want to bring in retired U.S. Army General Wesley Clark, a former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO. General, thanks so much for joining us. The United Arab Emirates, where the Israel-bound flight originated, has launched a full-scale terror investigation right now.

1:01:32Pamela Brown: The Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, already says the suspect, an Omani national, had undergone what he calls Islamist radical indoctrination. General, tensions are very high in the Middle East already, and the Iran war obviously is still going on. What could all this mean to the region if this is determined to be a terror attack? It will mean a resurgence of violence in the region because there'll have to be a response. It also means a real tightening of the counterintelligence operation inside the Emirates, and especially with respect to any airline flights and pilot training. And it will have repercussions on Oman as well if this man came from Oman.

1:02:17But I think it could be a trigger for a renewed set of strikes on Iran if it's traced back to Iran.

1:02:27Pamela Brown: Without offering details, President Trump already says the pilot could have ties to Tehran. And he says the U.S. would hit Iran, in his words, very hard if investigators find that Iran was involved in trying to down this Israel-bound flight. Most of the passengers were Israelis coming back to Israel from Dubai. What could that U.S. retaliation look like? I think it certainly would be strikes on any intelligence facilities, any renewed construction of air defense and radars and typical military targets, and maybe some other associated intelligence activities that have subsequently, to the stop of the air campaign, been identified.

1:03:16But the region's on a knife edge right now, Wolf. I mean, we don't know, nobody knows whether and how effectively we're getting oil out. Some people say 15 million barrels a day. That's what the Wall Street Journal says. Some people say, no, no, no, that's an exaggeration. It's not nearly that much. And that's being put out in an effort to pressure the government of Tehran. People say the government of Tehran may preempt and therefore strike. This would count, if it's traced to Tehran, as a preemption. And the president would respond. On the other hand, if it continues as it is, maybe this rule, as the president said, gets settled after the midterm elections.

1:03:59So I'm talking to people in the region, and they're very concerned. But I think the prevailing opinion is this is not going to continue until the midterm elections, that there will be a renewed set of strikes. They could be directed against civilian infrastructure. They will certainly be directed against any resumption of Iranian capabilities or rebuilding of Iranian capabilities along the Strait of Hormuz. So I think that we do have to expect 60, 40, 70, 30 renewed violence in the next three or four weeks in the region.

1:04:42Pamela Brown: Yeah, this is an extremely sensitive moment right now. I also want to ask you about the U.S. aircraft carrier, the USS Theodore Roosevelt. It left this week for the Middle East with about 10 ,000 sailors and Marines, is expected to relieve the USS Washington. that Roosevelt will join the carrier USS George H.W. Bush in the region. Do you see any de-escalation at all of U.S. military readiness in this current war with Iran? I don't see that. In fact, I see this as a buildup. And it is a measure intended to provide coercive pressure onto the Iranian government. They can see it coming and they can see the buildup.

1:05:24And obviously, their partners, Russia and China, are watching this and tracking the carrier and digesting the lessons from previous Iranian attempts to strike the carrier or other U.S. naval assets out there. There's a lot of going on behind the scenes, Wolf, in terms of learning lessons from this. They're watching very closely U.S. naval operations. They're looking at all of the electronic signatures. They're looking at the flight patterns. They're looking at the defensive measures. You can be sure that there's a lot of schooling going on based on what's happened thus far. So this may look like a period of calm, like a duck smoothly sailing over the water.

1:06:09But underneath, the web feeder paddling furiously on the other side as well as on ours.

1:06:16Pamela Brown: Yeah, the calm before the storm indeed. The former NATO Supreme Allied Commander General Wesley Clark, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you, Wolf. Pamela. All right, Wolf, just ahead, a national moment. The group that runs the National Sex Assault Hotline says it has seen a massive spike in calls as an alleged gang rape at Cornell pushes more and more people to share their own stories.

1:06:45At Farmers, we go out of our way to keep you in the know. Like by singing, everything for emphasis. That, and by providing you with coverage on a page, an easy-to-understand language, so you know what's covered and what's not. No confusing legalese that no one gets. In full transparency, we do have to put a disclaimer at the end of this ad, though. Just being honest, that's what you get when... You have farmers. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Learn more at Farmers.com. Underwritten by Farmers Truck or Fire Insurance Exchanges or Affiliate. Products not available in every state. Well, happening now, the alleged 2024 gang rape on Cornell's campus has sparked a nationwide conversation about how sexual assault cases are handled as more details come out about what happened in the days following the alleged incident.

1:07:29And more questions are being raised about how the university handled its initial investigation under the accusations. Women have taken to social media to share their own experiences with sexual assault and the aftermath. if it weren't for my faith in the lord i don't know how i would even be able to get up and walk and go about my life each day healing is not linear and i'm you know still healing every single day and making sense of what happened i provided his confession to both incidents and they did nothing. Despite him confessing, the prosecutor declined to prosecute. Now to Ms. Jane Doe, other survivors out there, anyone who's currently going through it, please reach out to somebody.

1:08:17I still have people that don't believe me and my abusers in prison. All of this, a stark reminder that the allegations at the center of all of this are not an isolated incident. Joining us here in the Situation Room is Megan Cutter, the chief of victim services at the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network, known as RAINN. So our understanding is since Jane Doe's civil suit was filed, you all have seen a huge increase in the volume of calls just this past week. Tell us about that. Yeah, we've received more than 80 % increase in calls to the national sexual assault. So it's been really intense.

1:08:54And I think some of it is we're hearing from survivors who are realizing and understanding for the first time that maybe their experience is considered rape or considered sexual assault. They're hearing Jane Doe's story and we've also got folks who have are further along in their healing journey but all of this coverage is making them kind of consider their own experience and they're experiencing you know shame or self-blame and there's a lot of kind of challenge around that as well so we want to be here to support folks in whatever moment that they reach the hotline at. And those that are calling can you give us any kind of better understanding of are these women who are in college after college?

1:09:31Lots of women who are in college now or who are recent graduates. I think part of what is, you know, so stark with this story is so many of us can picture ourselves in a similar situation to Jane Doe or our friends or our kids. And so people are really seeing themselves in this story in a way that maybe with a higher profile, you know, coverage or individuals who have more sort of positions of power, they don't see themselves in those stories in the same way. Whereas with this, it feels really connected to the experiences of lots of women. I wonder what you think about this announcement this morning from the New York governor that she supports closing this so-called loophole in the state sexual assault law, which excludes victims who willfully become intoxicated.

1:10:14Cornell University is also expressing support for this change. How big of an impact do you think this could have if it's changed? I think this would be so significant. This is something that RAINN is in support of as well and we're working with legislators in New York. For when we think about consent, we think about a mutual agreement between people that is achieved through someone's own voluntary choice and if someone is intoxicated, asleep, under some kind of duress or pressure or manipulation, they can't freely give consent. And so it's a real concern to have that loophole and we would like to see it closed.

1:10:50Can you just give us the broader view, like how many states have a loophole similar to that? Because I know it's a real patchwork, right? Yeah, you know, laws are really different across states and people, you know, are experiencing all kinds of different things. And it's a real surprise, at least for me, even having been in this field for so long, where you would think that laws would be in support of survivors and their needs and what they've gone through. But unfortunately, there are lots of situations like this where laws seem to favor the perpetrator or they make it more difficult for the victim to come forward and to speak out.

1:11:25Let's talk a little bit more about consent. I interviewed Jane Doe's lawyer earlier today, and I brought up what was in the initial police documents that she said at the beginning of the night she consented to sexual activity. And then as the night went on, it evolved into non-consensual sexual activity. And this is how he responded to that. Let's listen. With anybody who's an abuse survivor, it's denial. Nobody wants to be labeled with the idea of they were a victim of a sexual assault. It's just not the way the human mind works. Now, that's phase one, and she was in denial about it. And then phase two, she's shamed.

1:12:02How did I let this happen to me? And then what she started to do is to record the messages with one of these guys to try to get information. And she did get information because he apologized to her, said that things got out of hand. And then in the interim, she's trying to get help from somebody who's outside of this group of college students. And she goes to the Cornell Health. And this is failure one. And he says that in his view, she didn't consent to anything because when she walked into the house, she had been drinking earlier in the night. So tell us more about that evolution from shame to acceptance.

1:12:38This is really very common for survivors of sexual violence and for survivors of lots of forms of trauma. You know, in those initial moments, hours, days after an assault, survivors are trying to kind of take their own experience and understand how to describe it, conceptualize what happened. And that can go through many, many different phases. And the way that trauma impacts our brains can make it difficult to recall how things happened or the order in which they happened. And that's all really normal. Then we've also got this situation at a college, at a university, where someone is maybe considered some of these perpetrators her friends, her peers.

1:13:18And so also trying to reconcile the experience of all of this harm done with someone who you thought was your friend. And so that can bring a lot of really complicated emotions and a lot of shame and self-blame that at the National Sexual Assault Hotline and at RAINN, we really work to help folks kind of move through that to deciding, you know, what is it that how would they want to name their own experience? What kind of support do they need? And we're seeing this a lot, you know, every day on the hotline, but particularly this week, people coming forward and saying, this happened, my friend did this to me, I thought he was my friend.

1:13:51Now I'm wondering more about, you know, I didn't consent the whole time or I didn't feel I could say no. And it's really layered and complicated and can also be very different for each individual and each situation. Yeah, and we should note the defendants in this case all deny any wrongdoing with sexual assault. But just broadly speaking, how often is it that a rape happens with someone that you know? So for college students in particular, 60 % of sexual assaults that women report that are of that college age are actually perpetrated by someone they know. So it's very common. And it's often a situation where the person maybe enters into a party or a date and they're consenting to that initial engagement or conversation or even sexual activity.

1:14:41And as things start to change, they absolutely have the right to speak up and to say, no, I'm not OK with this next activity or this next action. And also, if they cannot speak up, if they are too intoxicated, if they are not awake, then that's not consent. And we need to be very clear on that. Really quickly on that point, how common is that scenario where it starts off consensual and then becomes non-consensual in the survivors view? This is something we hear about all the time on the National Sexual Assault Hotline, where they had agreed to one type of activity or they agreed to one set of circumstances.

1:15:16and at every sort of juncture in some kind of sexual engagement with another person, we should be talking to our partners and saying, hey, is this okay? Is this all right? Consent should be freely given, and we should continuously be checking in to make sure that everyone is on the same page, and if they're not. But if both parties are drinking, how realistic is that? You know, I think that that's part of why we have to have these conversations to prepare people ahead of an environment where there's lots of alcohol or drugs or lots of the things that we see on a college campus. I think we've got to get people the knowledge and the information in advance to know how to have those conversations and also to know how to identify when this situation is not consensual anymore.

1:16:04All right, Megan Cutter, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. And just a note to everyone, as we've been saying, the National Sexual Assault Hotline is available 24-7 to help. The number is 1-800-656-HOPE. And there are also resources at rainwith2ends.org. More news when we come back. This holiday, all plans, even unlimited, are just$15 a month. A holiday deal this good obviously deserves an enormously expensive holiday song, like All I Want. Right. Okay, we can't afford that. You know what? Forget the music budget. We're going to stick with whatever's in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

1:16:39Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for 12-month plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. When it comes to my policy, Farmers gives it to me straight, so there's no surprises. It's your coverage. You should never be confused. You hear that? An insurance provider with a conscience. We're a choir, but yes, we have that too. Straightforward coverage you can literally understand. That's what you get when you have farmers. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.

1:17:15Learn more at Farmers.com. Underwritten by Farmers Truck or Fire Insurance Exchanges or Affiliate. Products not available in every state.

1:17:22Pamela Brown: New this morning, the New York Governor Kathy Hochul said the State Attorney General Letitia James will be taking over a special prosecutor in the case alleging sexual assault at Cornell University back in 2024. The incident sparked outrage and demands for accountability, bringing sexual assault on college campuses back into the spotlight. Joining us now is CNN political commentator Michael Smirkanish. He's the host of CNN Smirkanish, also of the Michael Smirkanish program on Sirius XM. Michael, thanks so much for joining us. First of all, what are you hearing from your listeners? And there are so many out there about how this Cornell University investigation is being handled.

1:18:05Pamela Brown: First, universal disgust with the conduct, the horrid conduct, the Snapchat reference in particular. People are just, their stomachs are turned over what went on here. Having said that, whether any of this is able to be criminally prosecuted and at this stage, I have my doubts and I think so too to a lot of people who are following this case very carefully. You know, two things can be true at the same time, that it was mishandled initially, but that the case was fatally flawed, fatally flawed by inconsistencies in her account and by the peculiarities of New York law, making it very difficult for an intoxicated person to say that they didn't consent.

1:18:47Pamela Brown: So horrible case, disgusting facts, but legally, that's a separate question. On another sensitive issue, we just got the new jobs numbers for the month of September, Michael. The U.S. added jobs, but the number was far below expectations. This is the last jobs report before the midterm elections on November 3rd. How will this have an impact, you think, on voters? I think it's just more of the narrative that is the context in which the midterm election is being waged. The administration needed better. Republicans needed better. They needed some level of a game changer, and they didn't get it. And what I remind people, Wolf, is that we're now less than five weeks away, I say, from the conclusion.

1:19:32Pamela Brown: I no longer say, oh, Election Day is coming in November, because a lot of people are already voting, and by this weekend, even more people will be voting and next week. So it's like game on already, not what's going to happen in a month. As far as the elections are concerned, is it still, as James Carville used to say, the economy's stupid? I think that it's the economy and it's just a lot of other factors that are driving the economy. I can't separate the situation, the unresolved situation in Iran from the economy because I think it's had a direct impact on gas prices. And, you know, those gas prices, we can have our debates about different aspects of the economy.

1:20:13Pamela Brown: What does the jobs number even mean? I don't know. I'll tell you what I know, Wolf. I know that driving to my studio here today, I passed three gas stations and all of them had the price of gas posted. It's like a constant reminder. That's the one most important factor, I think, of the economy today. I think that's a good point. There's a proposal out there on the California November ballot that would impose a one time five percent wealth tax on the richest Californians whose net worth exceeds one billion dollars. This measure, known as Proposition 40, would also require for most of this tax revenue to be spent on health care.

1:20:51Pamela Brown: How are your listeners, first of all, reacting to extra taxes for billionaires? I'm so glad you asked, because I think it was two days ago, Gabriel Zuckman was a guest on my radio program on Sirius XM. He's the one who's written this book. It's more like a pamphlet, but getting a lot of attention. It's time to tax billionaires. And he came and he made the case to my radio audience and said, look, they don't pay income taxes the way everyone else does. And generational wealth can get passed on with very little tax consequence. There's much more to it. But we then had a poll question, unscientific.

1:21:26Pamela Brown: But we asked, should billionaires be taxed based on wealth, not income? It carried the day. More than a majority said yes. Interesting. All right, Michael Spurkanish, as usual. Thanks very much. And Michael's live every Saturday morning, 9 a.m. Eastern, right here on CNN. I recommend it highly. All right, Wolf, coming up, we're going to talk about parental estrangement. We're going to talk with two mothers who now no longer have ties with their children. And we want to better understand why this trend is happening. We'll discuss after this break.

1:22:04A growing trend is emerging that could shift the nature of family dynamics in our country. More and more millennial and Gen Z adults are becoming estranged, having minimal contact or no contact with their parents. While specific numbers are hard to come by, data from a Cornell researcher published in 2020 shows that at least 10 % of U.S. adults have cut ties with a parent or child. And according to the Wall Street Journal, many experts believe estrangements between adult children and their parents are becoming an epidemic, much like divorce from the 1970s. Here to help us understand this trend are Laura Wellington, known on social media as Doormat Mom and licensed clinical social worker Kate Smiley.

1:22:45Both are parents estranged from their children. Thank you for coming on to talk about this. Laura, I want to start with you. What led to your daughter's decision of going no contact with you? Tell us about what happened. Well, that's that's a question for me, too, I guess. It ended up being a situation over her wedding where she decided quite out of the blue that I was not allowed to go to her wedding. And when she told me I had no idea why she came to that decision. it like I said it just came right out of the blue so from that point on one or two moments afterwards with us engaging it ended up being where we ended up estranged.

1:23:38So you no longer talk at all? No we haven't spoken in two years in two years. And we're going to circle back to that in just a moment but Kate to bring you in and you're interesting because you are an estranged parent, and you're also a therapist. So help us understand why someone would cut ties with a family member. Is this a generational disconnect? What is the end goal here? What's going on in your view? I think there is a generational disconnect. There's a real issue kind of teasing apart discomfort versus threat. And I think we've gotten to a point in our world right now where it's more like therapeutic individualism, where we're getting away from the family system approach and we're looking more at the individual.

1:24:40and I am a trauma therapist and I have clients that have major trauma that can't even sit through EMDR and I see it but I also think we really have to be careful as therapists not to start pathologizing parental flaws or the system you know I hear a lot about the narcissistic parent or it's unsafe or it's traumatic because I also think it takes away from the people that are really going through this trauma. I work with all different types of people and coming from a parent that's going through this, this type of loss, this type of grief is overwhelming. And I really want to have a voice for all the mamas, papas, grandparents who are going through that's struggling every day to get out of bed.

1:25:43It's wreaking havoc on our nervous system every day. It must feel like grief. I mean, and essentially you've lost your child, right? Having no contact with them at all. Laura, you decided to go public with your daughter's estrangement. What has the reaction been from people in your personal community to that? It's been enormous. I have millions of parents that contact me, are in contact with me every day who have gone through this. And I think it's just more than focused on, I think there's a perfect storm happening. I think that we live in a society where disagreement is punished. I think we have therapy culture that is truly, truly becoming the gods of our society and therapy language becoming their language.

1:26:36I think we have a very me-centric generations right now where the me trumps the we. You can't keep a society going if we doesn't come first. I think, you know, terms like abuse and neglect are ever-changing and ever-inclusive. You know, and I think that social media applauds all that. And they get to, you know, they get to have a whole new family through social media, all living in the same bubble. And I think that's all happening. And so it's not just one thing. It's a perfect storm. So, Kate, back to you on that note. I'm wondering after this happened to you what kind of sort of introspection you did just to better understand, you know, how did this happen?

1:27:28And in a situation like this, when a parent disagrees with their child and their decision in this estrangement, is there any chance of reconciliation? What would that look like? That is, oh, Pamela. Woo! Yeah, loaded questions. We've got to run soon. I'm so sorry. No, it's okay. You know, it's problematic. I am very, my case is unique as I'm a widow. I lost my darling, beautiful husband nine years ago, which was kind of the fracture point for, you know, losing my children. And I want to make this very clear. This is what we call ambiguous grief, meaning that the person is still around, unlike my husband, where I had formal closure on it.

1:28:24My two beautiful daughters are still around, yet they're choosing not to connect with me. And so we as parents, it's like losing your children in a grocery store and you're running around, running around, panic, panic, panic, trying to find them. Once you find them, it's like, but we live with that every single day. And ultimately, we as parents are working so hard to learn where did we go wrong? You know, what can we do? And the big issue, the biggest issue is that even if we do reconcile, it's never going to be the same. It's going to be this new normal. And that scares a lot of parents. It's like, am I going to be walking on eggshells?

1:29:15What if I say something wrong and I lose them again? And it's all the losses, those little losses. We have the moments of time and the most specific moments that really kill me and a lot of parents is the everyday connection. I was so close with my girls. And it's texting each other, sending funny memes to each other, connecting. It's the everyday chats, yeah. And we don't have that. That everyday chats, it's a killer. All right. Kate and Laura, thank you both for coming on. Really important discussion here. Thank you so much. Thank you, Pamela.

1:29:52Pamela Brown: Very important discussion indeed. Good work. Thanks very much to our viewers for joining us. We'll see you back here Monday morning, 10 a.m. Eastern, Inside Politics with Dana Bash starts after a quick break.

1:30:10This holiday, all plans, even unlimited, are just$15 a month. A holiday deal this good obviously deserves an enormously expensive holiday song, like All I Want. Right. Okay, we can't afford that. You know what? Forget the music budget. We're going to stick with whatever's in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for a 12-month plan required, $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms. At Farmers, we go out of our way to keep you in the know.

1:30:44Like by singing everything for emphasis. That and by providing you with coverage on a page. An easy to understand language. So you know what's covered and what's not. No confusing legalese that no one gets. In full transparency, we do have to put a disclaimer at the end of this ad though. Just being honest. That's what you get when you have farmers. Learn more at farmers.com underwritten by farmers truck or fire insurance exchanges or affiliate products not available in every state.