AI Agents Are Here. Travel Isn't Ready.

0:00Music

0:23Seth Borko: The number of the week is one. That is the number of coffees that Seth Borko has had delivered to me in our Bet the Coffee session. And I will say, completely arranged and delivered entirely by our instinct agents. But it wasn't without work, I should say, by Seth and me, which was kind of interesting. The other thing was I had this like grand plan that I wanted the coffee to be delivered today. We're recording this at 930 in the morning. I wanted it to be delivered between like 935 and 10 o 'clock. So like, you know, the door would buzz while we're on the air. Very dramatically go and get the coffee.

1:14Seth Borko: But it arrived about 15 minutes ago. So here it is. It is still hot. It is a latte and it is delicious. Thank you, Seth.

1:22Sarah Kopit: Cheers to you, Sarah. You earned it. You won the bet fair and square, and I'm glad my AI agent could have it delivered to you.

1:28Seth Borko: So what was it like on your end for this? So our agents connected, and then I told it that I wanted a coffee, and we'll make it a latte because, you know, fancy. And we'll make it a latte. But I was very specific about when I wanted it delivered. That was my thing. And that tripped it up a bit.

1:52Sarah Kopit: There was a lot of trip ups. So this is we I think this simple coffee bet is actually a great experiment about what the future of agentic commerce holds, not just for podcast co hosts who owe each other coffees. But I think it's broadly applicable actually to the travel industry, the pitfalls and challenges of actually executing an agentic commerce transaction. We're we're kind of big, actually. So. All right. So let's start. The first thing we started with was I owed you a coffee. So I texted my instinct and I said, hey, I owe Sarah a coffee. Let's figure it out. Let's pay her. And I was worried about it overspending on my behalf.

2:35Sarah Kopit: So I said, let's cap it at$10. I don't want you to spend more than$10. The latte in New York City came in at more than that. It's a tiny one, too. Sarah, very kind. Sarah, it said Sarah's mess. So it's I don't know if Sarah's message, it gave you your message back. Sarah told her agent, no, it's OK. You can spend more than 12 bucks. Seth will cover the rest. And instinct wrote back to me and said, sounds like you're getting the. What did it say? It said, let me get to the exact quote. It actually took a while. It said her words, Seth gets the extra two.

3:17Seth Borko: because it was twelve dollars not yeah yeah so how would you like to sell yeah we wound up we

3:22Sarah Kopit: wound up upgrading did you get the the crookie that i included in your uh your order but i didn't

3:27Seth Borko: even look at it hold on this is gonna be my chance to like dramatically go and get my and get and get the the things okay so once sarah once i was using ai i said

3:43Sarah Kopit: Sarah deserves a sweet treat. She's such a great co-host. What is it? So it looks like a croissant with two cookies or cookie dough on here. Is it good?

4:01Seth Borko: It is very sweet.

4:05Sarah Kopit: I told the agent to just buy you whatever the best reviewed pastry was. I didn't pick that out. I just said Sarah deserves a sweet treat. Get her whatever the best reviewed pastry at the shop is. Okay.

4:18Seth Borko: All right.

4:18Sarah Kopit: Is the cookie a good choice?

4:20Seth Borko: It is a good choice. I'm going to eat it during the podcast. Thank you very much. So then you picked the, let's talk, you tell a story.

4:28Sarah Kopit: I said, I want to buy Sarah a latte. It connected our instincts. Your instinct said, I want to give you a coffee. Oh, shoot. Someone is at my door. One second, please. I didn't get him a coffee. I'll just sit here and eat my crookie. That was a delivery order, but it was the wrong address. I thought that maybe you had gotten me something, Sarah, or even our producer, Will, who now has my instinct. I thought he might have ordered me a treat so that it felt a little more equal. But I guess, nah.

5:00Seth Borko: No.

5:03Seth Borko: Now I feel guilty. So sorry, Seth.

5:06Sarah Kopit: So sorry.

5:07Seth Borko: There he is. Will, the man, the myth, the legend.

5:10Sarah Kopit: there he is he thought will had had ordered me something to to make up for it was just it was the wrong address sad so sad new york city living i'm curious did your agent yeah so what human because i was thinking about this i was like okay the agents can do as much as you give them but what human provided the service like what who did they go through grubhub uber eats so what was it okay continues that's my that's my main question i'll hop back behind the behind the scenes but okay yeah yeah so basically i said i didn't care where the coffee was from i just wanted did you really small latte yeah i said i just want a small latte

5:53Seth Borko: and i my big thing was like i want it delivered between 9 35 and 10 o 'clock like that was my big like that was my big request that's so interesting because my agent told me that you would request

6:08Sarah Kopit: a coffee from a specific restaurant it said you wanted a specific coffee shop and it said oh sarah wants a latte from i think it was diamico coffee well i should say i should say it it told

6:26Seth Borko: me it gave me a list of coffee shops and it said but and it had included in there a dunkin donuts and it's far away from me the dunkin donuts is far away so i was like any of those are fine just not dunkin donuts because i don't want it to be cold when it gets here so okay so it comes to

6:49Sarah Kopit: me it picked one and it said d 'amico it said it's available on grubhub need your help logging into grubhub and we then spent 30 minutes plus trying to log into grubhub into ubereats into doordash and it was just not possible so it was hard i got blocked every it was very hard i was um this is why will's question is a great one i gave it my lot my grubhub username and login which my wife doesn't improve of, but I did anyways. And Grubhub blocked it. It said, prove you're human. And Instinct said, I can't I can't pass this test. It has a blocker. And it failed. And it said, I'm sorry, I can't order from the coffee shop that Sarah wants because it's only available on Grubhub and I can't get into Grubhub.

7:42Seth Borko: Interesting. Yeah, I didn't. It could have been from the deli just i would have preferred it was from the deli right down the street because

7:49Sarah Kopit: it would have been even hotter so i told it to go rogue and i not go right telling the idea to go rogue is maybe not the right use of of a of verbiage but i said all right we'll have to go to a coffee shop that does direct delivery direct order and i think this is where it gets really relevant for the travel industry because it found me a coffee shop that would accept a guest order on a direct delivery service. And that was the only coffee shop that Instinct was able to work with. It had to be able to place the order directly as a guest. Once it was asked to log into the third-party platform, the whole thing broke down and the whole thing crashed.

8:31Seth Borko: I had no idea. And it's funny, I have actually no idea where this is from. Like, I just looked in the bag. Brooklyn Bread. Oh, yeah. Okay. They're not too far away. Yeah.

8:43Sarah Kopit: So I think it's got a huge lesson for like Expedia versus United because I have since, inspired by you, Sarah, I've since booked tickets at Amtrak and Amtrak lets you book as a guest. And I've since booked a ticket on United Airlines. But United Airlines also lets you book as a guest. As a guest.

9:02Seth Borko: So it's going to be really interesting. I guess what this like very not scientific crude experiment shows us is that if companies want to stop agents for whatever reason, they absolutely can. That will be easy for them to do.

9:23Sarah Kopit: Yeah.

9:24Seth Borko: And I think I mean, I mean, if the tradeoffs are are better.

9:27Sarah Kopit: But I think some of them are just I think some of them don't even realize they're blocking agents. Like we actually did a story about Sean did a story, I think about Hilton. I think a research analyst tried to book hotels, different hotels with different agents. And then the research analyst said Hilton was blocked. And then Hilton said, what are you talking? We don't block anything. But just because you don't, your IT team doesn't doesn't go in and say, you know, you could with Google, there's something called a robots.txt file, basically a file where you can tell Google, please don't visit my website.

9:58Sarah Kopit: I think what I didn't actually read the story that closely. So hopefully I'm getting it right. But I think there's a lesson here, which is that just because you don't go in and explicitly turn off AI agents, just because you don't your IT team doesn't go in and switch the button that says no AI agents, please. They might even have the button that says yes, AI agents, please. if your workflow and your checkout flow is not designed with you know just like we talk about ux you have to design your checkout flow and it takes years of optimization to get a good checkout flow for a human if your checkout flow is not optimized for an agent you um you will not get the bookings and i guess it all depends on loyalty you know in the case of diamaco coffee i got i didn't care where the coffee came from and if you don't care where the flight comes from or you don't care where the hotel comes from, and your instinct gets confused, or your muse or your whatever agent gets confused, I just tell them, forget it.

10:50Sarah Kopit: Forget it. This one latte is not that different from another. Just find a different shop. And what's doubly ironic is Grubhub is the more expensive platform, just like Expedia and Book in Charges of Commission. What's doubly ironic is that the direct platform was easier to use than the third-party platform. I think that that is a huge, huge deal because the reason why you pay Expedia and Booking a 15 % commission is because they get eyeballs. And we talk so much about AI visibility, but who cares how visible you are if the agent can't access them? It's meeting all the visibility in the world is meaningless.

11:32Yeah.

11:33Seth Borko: Yeah. Wow. All right. I have another trip to book to Dallas. I was going to use instinct. And, you know, it's interesting. Like this one is kind of a quick trip that I kind of just don't feel like doing experiments anymore. I think I'm just like I'm kind of tired of it. Like I'm just going to book it myself because it's easier. Like I am kind of like for for those type of things. I am kind of like in that space right now with with my agent.

12:03Sarah Kopit: i've been using it a lot as a mental unblocker like a trip that i just and i know i mean no offense to the business trip i'm taking tomorrow but a trip that i'm just not excited about or a trip where i'm overwhelmed which is particularly true of business trips where i'm just overwhelmed it's been really helpful uh when i'm excited about so like i'm doing one speaking engagement and i'm flying down to dc day in day out i love dc i went to school there i think i'm really excited about the speaking engagement it's not an insult to the speakers but i just wasn't we had global forum i was at the data and i said when i was in london i was on vacation i just couldn't think about it and having the agent do it was great i've got another speaking engagement where they're going to put us up in a resort in new mexico which i'm quite excited about and there i was like oh okay let me look at the flights and the arrival times and the this and the that and let me tell you another thing sarah i i was just at the skiff data summit in Europe and I told the story of booking this agent to purchase this flight to DC that I'm taking flying tomorrow and someone came up to me afterwards and said but Seth you're uh correctly uh a united uh loyalty member I have united gold they give you better rates you get discounts on award redemptions you get better rates if you're a Hilton honors member you get cheaper rates.

13:24Sarah Kopit: If you are, you know, there's all these discounts that you get when you are a logged in user. And as we just saw, Instinct does not do a really good job of logging into some of these sites. And so he said, I think you overpaid. And you know what? I think he's right. I think I did overpay. I did not get my United loyalty price in. I did not get my Marriott loyalty price in. I got lowest common denominator available to Joe Schmoe public pricing.

13:56Seth Borko: You can't, but surely you could have told Instinct. You could have given them all of your numbers and told them as part of the transaction to make sure that they use it, right? Or I don't know. I'm not that advanced in my instinct. Well, maybe I could have.

14:13Sarah Kopit: I actually haven't tried. Maybe I could have. But one, I was worried about getting banned from United Airlines frequent flyer for accessing my account with a bot. And two, when I tried to log into my actual Seamless account and I gave it my Seamless login information, Seamless blocked it.

14:30Seth Borko: Ooh, that's dangerous. You talk about something that New Yorkers are afraid of. We're not afraid of much. Rats in the subway. Even like, you know, criminals. I don't know. Like, strange people. None of it. seamless blockage absolutely losing access to my seamless account would have been devastated i

14:54Sarah Kopit: agree but but seamless block so seamless made it difficult to log in i believe that hilton marriott and united would all probably i can't say this for sure but i believe many brands would make it difficult to log in this is instinct accessing the web with my password information and login on my behalf. It's not elegant. It's not fast. And it gets blocked a lot. And therefore, a lot of the preferential, they call them closed user group rates, are maybe not available to agents, at least not yet. And this is the next frontier of the fight. Right now, we're in the fight of AI visibility. The next one will be access to agents for commerce, I think.

15:38Yeah, it is interesting.

15:39Seth Borko: I mean, we talk about agents so much, and you and I we we love our agents we we've enjoyed our little experiments but when i go out there in the world outside of like this life i do have another one right uh very few people even know what i'm talking about when i when i bring up agents um and they're like what do you what do you mean and then i explain it to them and they still don't know like it's not and they still don't know so I think there is a ways, but all businesses, especially the tech, anyone who runs a website for a commercial entity here in the year of our Lord, October 13th, 2026, should know.

16:31Sarah Kopit: What an agent is.

16:33Seth Borko: Yeah, or needs to know, not should know, needs to know what an agent is.

16:38Sarah Kopit: your friends at strawberry hotels were talking about the data and ai summit about how oh yeah what they say were they wearing togas they were home but they said i mean they said they're basically trying to rebuild their entire they're ripping out a lot of their checkout structure and

16:54Seth Borko: rebuilding it yeah um which i think is so tell me tell me about data and ai tell me all about it give me the highlights i wasn't there it was very weird not to be there it was great i really enjoyed

17:05Sarah Kopit: it if you were there thank you for coming you you saw and heard unfortunately a lot of me i met a couple of big fans so if you were at the dad and aunt summer and you said hi thank you you know who you are thank you for saying hi um i really enjoyed it i think i had um i had to do the closing verdict that's the new thing you know you know this era we're doing this thing now where like we want to do a verdict and summarize at the end so i i made a bunch of notes i had claude write them up into a summary. I took notes the other day. I figured it to Claude. Let me give you some of the summaries, some of the learnings.

17:39Sarah Kopit: Verdict, the closing verdict from Data and AI Summit. As if you were there in person, you get to hear it on the podcast. One, agents are arriving fast. Actually, my presentation said the agents are here and almost no one is ready. That was what I called my presentation. And this experience with the agents are here, I want to buy you a coffee, and I can't do it on Grubhub. I can't do it on Seamless. I can't do it on DoorDash. I can't do on uber eats that is agents are here and no one is ready yeah agents are even faster than the proof trust not technology decides who wins i think it's fair trust is a big thing but the technology is there takeaway one get found or get skipped we had a speaker talk about how independent hotels are eight times less likely to be known to ai so brands are being discovered more frequently but once an independent hotel is discovered by AI, once for whatever reason it's in the algorithm, they're just as likely to be chosen.

18:34Sarah Kopit: I thought that was a really interesting insight that it's harder for the independents to get into the algorithm, but once they're in the algorithm, they compete just as well as any brand, at least for now. Algorithms are fickle things. Richard Clark, the securities analyst from Bernstein that we are big fans of here at SCIF, said that the exponential curve of AI traffic is growing, but it's still very small. I think we actually wrote a story about it today i'm writing that up less than one percent of traffic but he says that the exponential is there we had joe pedigrew of l &r hotels say that ui takes a back seat and everyone gets a personal assistant which i agree with that's sort of the challenge we came into this bet so the second point was the interface is disappearing that's the whole point of this bet that we used agents to buy coffees and the interfaces and the uis are designed for humans not for agents brian batiste at skyscanner said chat alone won't cut it because travel is too emotional a purchase for a simple interface.

19:29Sarah Kopit: Probably true. Trust is the unlock and we've solved it before. MasterCard talked about how really what a credit card network is, is just a trust network. So we've solved trust before. It's just going to be a different version of trust. I like this one, start narrow and contain the damage. We had a guy from IAG say that he often asks when with an AI pilot, if it fails, what's the blast radius? And that was my favorite single quote from the conference. What's the blast radius when this thing blows up? Interesting use of words for an airline, but I liked it. It gets the point across. No clear AI winner yet.

20:11Sarah Kopit: That's what Richard Bernstein says. The market isn't treating a single consumer company as an AI winner. So far, oh, you know, I like this metaphor of the people who got rich

20:23Seth Borko: during the gold rush sold pickaxes yeah yeah yeah yes i love that one too it's one of my favorites

20:29Sarah Kopit: what richard clark said was we've got a lot of pickaxe sellers today like we've got the pickaxe sellers before we have the actual miners and settlers themselves which i think is interesting we've got a lot of people positioning themselves to sell pickaxes not a lot of people actually mine for gold yeah so and then um yeah guardrails as the accelerator talking about the roles of compliance and guardrails and building trust to help you. So those are my takeaways from Dania. I really enjoyed it. It was a really nice conference and it was a lot of fun.

21:01Seth Borko: And just to, I mean, I'm leaving in just a few hours for Dublin. For a transatlantic summit, which it will be on Thursday, this Thursday. So by the time you guys are listening to this, I think we will have already had it. I'll be in the air coming home. But yeah, we're doing, we're, we're doing all sorts of events. at Skift. So, you know, if you want to come and see us, either Seth or I or the whole crew, you know, hit up skift.com and take a look at all of our offerings because we do them, we do them a lot. We have many in New York City this fall still. So,

21:36Sarah Kopit: if you're around, It's not too late. We have a commerce summer in New York City that I'm particularly excited about where we're going to talk about literally everything. If you like this podcast, basically, if you enjoyed this podcast episode where we strictly speak about commerce and transactions. And if you're like, this is relevant to me, then you should come see Sarah and myself in New York City in November. We're doing a commerce summer on this exact topic. Yes. And then we have our aviation summit as well.

22:05Seth Borko: So anyway, airplanes, commerce, the whole thing. Speaking of airplanes and airports, the other big news, tragically this week, is what is going on in Saudi Arabia. I don't know why I kind of can't believe it. I suppose you kind of always say this, but when it's like, I was just there. I was just there, like in that airport, you know? And it's a very strange thing now. And our Airlines editor, Gordon Smith, wrote about this. how, you know, I think we're kind of used to or are accustomed to airplanes, sadly, being used in wars. Not so much airports as targets because civilian airports.

23:00Sarah Kopit: It's a great point.

23:01Seth Borko: So now we've got not only the air. So now we've got the airplanes, which are in the sky. You've got the airports on the land and the airspace directly above it. All three of those things now are being weaponized or targeted by groups and it's causing chaos, quite frankly, for all of us trying to get anywhere. it's it's super scary i mean first i guess you're talking about the airplanes being weaponized you're

23:35Sarah Kopit: talking about the fly dubai uh attempted i mean terrorist attack wasn't attempted it was a terrorist attack it was just wasn't as successful as it could have been which is super scary and it brings attention to the idea of the pilots which i don't know if you saw there was a wall street journal article that did an interesting chart about how there's been a number of incidents now in the last decade where the pilot is the um killer i mean there's no better word for it than killer is the killer um which is freaky and then airspace closures we've talked about this on this podcast before airspace is infrastructure airspace is not this thing that we is just this god-given right that we get to use wherever we want to go.

24:22Sarah Kopit: It is actually geopolitical. It is actually a big deal. And the closures of first Russia, then Iran, and now Saudi Arabia means that pretty much the entire European-Asian flight corridor now goes through the Caucasus, through Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan. And it's physically limited. There's only so many planes you can put in that kind of airspace. And what happens? I mean, it's on the border with Russia. What happens if Russia has invaded Georgia before? What happens if... And then, of course, airports, which is perhaps the scariest because they are such... Yeah, I mean, I've never been to Riyadh.

25:03Sarah Kopit: You were there. The attack on Riyadh is... I mean, it's an attack on an airport. It's also an attack on a capital city, which is a little freaky.

25:13Seth Borko: And one that I think one would think is very protected. Yeah. Yeah. That's just, you know, like just I would. That's why I say like I was shocked.

25:29Sarah Kopit: The other piece about it is that it's not. I think we can say don't clip this out of context, but I want to say we can get behind terrorism. But like we can understand it. It's sporadic. It's sporadic. It's random. It's infrequent. This is a sustained campaign by a state actor who has conducted multiple attacks with conventional weapons on an airport over the course of several days. Right. This isn't the one on Saturday that was fatal. Wasn't the first attack on Riyadh and the Houthis has said there will be more. So it's not like it's like.

26:05Seth Borko: And there was more like even the next day. You know, so. So the big attack was on Saturday. It was on Sunday, too.

26:14Sarah Kopit: It's freaky. I mean, what do you think? Does this derail Saudi's tourism goals? That's the big question.

26:23Seth Borko: Yeah, look, I don't think that it derails Saudi's tourism goals in a vacuum. I think that the instability in the region just more broadly makes it a lot more difficult for their tourism goals right now. You know, perhaps regionally not as much, but certainly all of those people that Saudi was hoping, certainly the folks from Ohio that Saudi was hoping would come to their luxury resorts or even from New York or California, like pick your, you know, that visitor. That visitor, I think you'll be hard-pressed to get them there in the near term. But as we know, you know, conflicts do end. Administrations do change.

27:27Sarah Kopit: And memories are short. And memories are short. Not everyone reads the news as much as we do. You know what I mean?

27:34Seth Borko: Bless you. Bless you all. congratulations for figuring out a way that that happens in your life i i i always say

27:44Sarah Kopit: you've heard me say this multiple times sarah listeners will hear but i always say it's the um the call your mom test what's your mom gonna say and when it was just in the headlines and your mom is thinking about it she's gonna be upset and say how could you do this once you start once you know for her friends and her mahjong group start going or their kids start going um it it becomes commonplace and i feel like dubai has that benefit that there's a lot of business that comes back to dubai and you start to hear from people in dubai and they say oh it's it's abu dhabi or just the uae in general oh it's it's safe it's fine it's business as usual but saudi is an unknown and it doesn't have that business community in the same way and it has a reputation and it will be an interesting case study.

28:37Seth Borko: And it's a shame because I, my time in, I just loved my time in Saudi Arabia, like as a, because I did tootle around a bit outside of work and it was, it was just so lovely. The people there are so lovely, you know, like it was just, I had, I had, I had such a good time in Saudi, brought home lots of stuff, like, you know, yeah a bias for everyone i it was great i think part of the joy of going to an undiscovered

29:06Sarah Kopit: destination is that yeah you know this is the flip side like there is a lot of joy that comes from an undiscovered destination which we argue saudi is um yeah definitely but yeah the pitch is the barrier to entry is harder so there is a you know it's hard to take an undiscovered destination and make it a mass market destination. You need the Williamsburg, Brooklyn, the people to move to the gentrifiers, so to speak. You need the hipsters to come in first and make it acceptable for everyone else. It'll be interesting. I'm also rooting for Saudi tourism. I'm interested to go. And I know, you know, they've built a lot of infrastructure.

29:48Sarah Kopit: Like, I think they've done the groundwork, the legwork there. So it'll be interesting to see what happens.

29:52Seth Borko: All right. so my coffee is is almost almost over it is almost out perhaps i should have gotten a large that would have totally busted seth's budget do you have any winners and losers this week

30:07Sarah Kopit: my loser is um my loser is is doordash and grubhub which was unable to accept my agentic order and I wanted to give them money and their their client their client restaurant partner lost out that's an easy loser with a lesson for the industry my loser this week as well was um I can't I don't think I've talked about this on

30:38Seth Borko: this particular this particular trip on this particular podcast but oh my gosh do I miss Spirit Airlines and do I miss a calm Strait of Hormuz because I am flying back to Michigan on November 7th to watch the University of Michigan beat Michigan State.

30:55Sarah Kopit: Go blue. And, you know, I

30:59Seth Borko: mean, it's not that far. I mean, what is it? October 13th. This was like two weeks ago. I went to go and buy my ticket. So, you know, it's not like the day before. Tickets were like between $700 and$1 ,200. This is from New York to Detroit, Michigan on a non-holiday weekend. So I was going to bring my daughter, but I'm like, forget you. So now only I'm going. And I burned 62 ,000 points miles to go. I was like, I can't actually part with that cash. Maybe I'll drive or something crazy like that. It was just too much money to pay for that ticket. So I burned 62 ,000 miles. I can't believe I did that.

31:48Seth Borko: But I did. So I'm going. So anyway, my loser is just like everyone involved in this, including me.

31:53Sarah Kopit: Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I looked at a flight one way, Palm Beach to New York. That was fifteen hundred dollars one way.

32:04Seth Borko: So this is really interesting. So, you know, we've been talking about, I know we've kind of gone off on a tangent now, only losers this week, no winners. We've been talking a lot about luxury and luxury, luxury, luxury, premium, premium, premium, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think that that continues. But now we are at a very interesting point where people like me and people like you start getting really irritated and thinking about not going places because of how much they cost.

32:37Sarah Kopit: That's right. That's right. Like we may have come to that point where like, and so I, and I kind of think like for, like for Seth and I, when, when, when you and I are sitting here feeling that, like there's probably going to be a problem. There is a level of luxury.

32:55Seth Borko: With the price of things.

32:56Sarah Kopit: There is a level of luxury that is just disconnected from prices. I always think of the great joke in Arrested Development where the matriarch of the family says, it's just a banana. What could it cost? Like$10? and you're just totally disconnected from the price. But the reality is most premium and premium leisure, it's not the 1 % because they fly private anyways. It is the top 20 % that has been feeling rich, feeling wealthy, by the way, is rich, especially in America on a global standard. I just point out that the GDP per capita of like Mississippi is actually greater than the GDP per capita of the UK.

33:33Sarah Kopit: Like this is a rich country. People are feeling rich. they're feeling wealthy and stock markets like going gangbusters you're looking at your 401k you're feeling good yeah but you're still connected to the price of things and um just because you're feeling rich doesn't mean that you're a chump doesn't mean that you're a sucker and there's a point you say could i afford um a flight to michigan to see my favorite team crush their arch rival, which they no doubt will, but is it worth it? And am I just, am I a sucker? And just because you're rich, even if you're rich, you don't want to feel like a sucker.

34:12Sarah Kopit: And I worry that we're crossed into sucker territory. Yeah. Yeah.

34:18Seth Borko: So we will leave you with that. A positive note. Travel industry.

34:22Sarah Kopit: We started with AI optimism. We ended with terrorism, war, and inflation. Oops.

34:29Seth Borko: And feeling like a sucker. Yeah. All right. So, yeah. So, come and see us at all of our events. You know, I will say, Seth and I, when all of you come up to us at the events and tell us how much you like the podcast or that you listen to it, it literally like we go away like we walk away and we talk about you and be like, oh my God, I can't believe I listen to the podcast. We do that. We get so excited. so we love meeting all of you so come and see us and sarah has such a good time in dublin i'm really excited for you thank you yeah me too i can't wait it's gonna be great all right all right until next week everybody see you all bye