Alluring and enticing

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1:48hello everyone and welcome to this week's edition of the spanish football podcast i'm phil kitchener ladies i'm joined by sid low hello sydney hi phil how are you i'm okay that's a nice little smile you're giving me at the start of the year well you've been away for a few days haven't you so i'm welcoming you back oh thank you with a slightly alluring enticing smile i I appreciate it.

2:08Phil Kitromilides:Thanks, Sid. I think that's the only time I've ever been referred to as a luring in my entire life. And enticing, much like Spain are looking right now, Sid. Oof. Hashtag a luring and enticing. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Spain looking really, really good. Spain looking really, really good. They are all but mathematically qualified for the World Cup unless they lose 7-0 to Turkey tomorrow, which isn't going to happen. They beat Georgia 4-0. Oh, it might. It's not going to happen, Sid. No, it's not. not going to happen it's not even there's no chance zero chance zero possibility that's going to happen uh spain looking ominously ominously good uh with this uh another big win against georgia and obviously perhaps i mean at the risk of you know going over old ground here spain looking good we know that we've said that they're a very good team but perhaps maybe the most eye-catching thing about this particular performance and this particular result was that it was done without seven, six slash seven players who are genuinely first choice in this starting XI, if they're fit.

3:12You know, we're talking about Lamin, Pedri, Rodri, Dani Carvajal, Nico Williams, and maybe... Robin Lenormand. And Robin Lenormand and then Dean Housen as well. Lots of players who would have started this game if they were fit. And it doesn't matter because this Spain team and this Spain squad is so good and has such a clear idea and everybody knows what they're supposed to do when they come in. On the radio, they were pretty euphoric and they were saying, we haven't just got one great team, we've got two great teams. Spain are a brilliant pair of teams. But it's kind of difficult to disagree with that.

3:51No, exactly.

3:52Phil Kitromilides:And let's go back through the various phases because I think this is quite interesting. And it's that each phase we've been sort of wrong. I mean, not entirely wrong, but sort of wrong. So you go into the European Championships and you think, yeah, Spain have got good players, but they haven't really got those players who are the very best in the world. And I remember being at Las Rothes before that European Championships and Álvaro Morata saying to us, what are you talking about? And basically the question being, you know, if you think about Ballon d 'Or winners, Spain don't really have them.

4:17Phil Kitromilides:And Morata said, well, Rodri should have already won it and still could. Lumin will win it one day. Nico Williams is good enough. Unai Simón is as good a goalkeeper as he is anywhere in the world. Don't tell me there's no Ballon d 'Or candidates. Anyway, then you get a European Championships in which they're brilliant, in which Nico and Lamine, who are the two people that Rodri had really talked about, are fantastic and are, if you like, that differential that made them, that kind of embodied the shift in style. The shift in style, the shift in generation, the speed, the directness, the technical quality, the one-on-one and so on.

4:48Phil Kitromilides:And then you get Rodri wins the Ballon d 'Or. Then you get into a situation, yeah, but what about the strength in depth and what about the centre forward? Because we're still not sure and we're not sure when it's Morata and we're not sure when Morata's not there. Anoy Othavol keeps on providing goals and keeps on providing goals. I think he's up to 20 or 21 now. 21 it is with the national team. And he's continuously doing it. And then let's take you to what me and Al were talking about in the podcast on Friday. And we were talking about the one doubt we had was not so much the absences, because we talked about the strength and depth, you know, the quality of the various options at central defence, the quality of the various options across the midfield.

5:24Phil Kitromilides:You know, Fabian doesn't always have to play. Gavi's still got to come back. Pedri's there. Mikko Marino and so on, right? But then we were saying, yeah, but the one thing we weren't sure about was what happens when neither Niko or Lamine are there? And I said something on Friday's podcast, which was, I think you can have inverted winners. But it does change the nature and the shape and the feel of the team. And I think I said words to this effect, more or less, something along the lines of, I feel like you could have one of them as inverted. But I think it would be a problem to have two of them as inverted.

5:54Phil Kitromilides:You want one of Lamine or Niko there at least. Preferably, of course, you want both. We want one of them at least. And of course, we're talking about this in the context of both of them suffering from bulbalgia at the moment and having those difficulties in fitness. And we're thinking, you know, I'm not entirely sure that this inverted winger thing that we talked about so many times over the last five or six years, Spain having lots of neat and tidy players in wide positions, but it sort of lacked a little bit of cutting edge. It lacked a bit of excitement. It lacked a little bit of directness.

6:19Phil Kitromilides:You know, you'd have Dani Olmo coming in. You'd have people like Carlos Soler coming in. And we're saying, where are the other wingers? because we talked about the two Bryans, Taragotha and Gil, and we thought, yeah, it's not really the same, is it? In fact, it's not at all the same. Anyway, so they go into this weekend's games with Ferran Torres in one nominally wide position, coming in on what I was calling on Friday the David Villa run. And on the other side, Alex Baena, who we said can sort of play there and has been doing a little bit for Atletico Madrid, but we're not sure if we like him there.

6:46Phil Kitromilides:And they were brilliant. So even that one doubt we had as recently as three days ago has kind of gone. Now, I'm going to hold up my hands here and say, let's all just calm down a weansy bit, because it was gone against a not very good team. And that would be my one thing here is to say, all right, but it's not against a really good team. Well, no, it's not against a really good team. You don't tend to come up against really, really good teams at World Cup qualifying that much anyway. No, of course you don't. That's a reality. And this helps to explain why Spain have scored, what is it, 20 odd goals and not conceded any.

7:21Phil Kitromilides:England are in a similar position. I think it's 19 for Spain and 20 for England, and they both haven't conceded. I was trying. I was going, right, that run of games. I've got the list here, so I'm going to go through it for you because it made me laugh a little bit this morning. I was trying to find the, you know, I was trying to be the Grinch. I was trying to say, oh, it's not up to much, is it? You know, Spain's amazing record of ever since March 2023 when they lost to Scotland in Glasgow, and they haven't been beaten since, and it's 30 games unbeaten. Isn't this amazing? and the all-time record is Italy with 31 and fantastic.

7:54Phil Kitromilides:Now, first of all, I'm sorry, I'm not having this unbeaten thing. I know statistically it's unbeaten, but they lost the Nations League final on penalties. But, you know, all right, OK, I'll swallow that. And I thought, they haven't really played really good teams, have they? And then I went through the list. And, of course, in the Euros, they beat Italy, Germany, England, France and Croatia. So those are quite good teams. But, I mean, it is true that in this run, they've also got a 5-4 win against the French, which was amazing because they were four mil up and it should never have been that close.

8:22Phil Kitromilides:And then it's true that the only, I would say the only other two teams they've played that are really strong are the Netherlands twice and Portugal. And they drew all of those, two, two, twos and a three, three. So maybe let's calm down, but let's not because no one's playing as well as they are. They are brilliant. I think that's the thing at the moment, you know, certainly in Europe, nobody's playing as well as a Spain. And again, let's highlight the fact that this result was done without a number of very, very important players who in theory should be missed and in practice absolutely weren't.

8:52I want to just ask you something, Sid, about one of those important players and perhaps an even more important player now. Rodri's not there, but Martin Subimendi is there. Is Martin Subimendi now first choice for Spain ahead of Rod?

9:07Phil Kitromilides:When you said at the start of the podcast, whatever it was, four or five minutes ago, that there were six or seven starters that weren't playing, my mind was already going, I'm not sure Rodri's a starter anymore. Now, obviously, look, that's a ridiculous thing to say about a Ballon d 'Or winner. And a lot will depend on how he plays between now and the spring and what kind of shape he's in in the spring. And who knows, maybe having not played as regular as he should at this stage of the season, while he starts to get that full fitness back, might mean that in the spring he's in better shape than Fulby Mendy.

9:35Phil Kitromilides:You know, touch wood, nothing happens to Fulby Mendy. Touch wood, there's not an injury and there's not even any fatigue. But there's a reasonable chance of some fatigue. But I think his performance level, Fulby Mendy, is so high that at the risk of saying something stupid, but you don't miss Rodri at the moment. That's true. You really don't. And I think, I do think they will and do miss Laminya Marle and Nico Williams when he's at his best form. And Nico actually hasn't been at his best form yet this season, apart from that brilliant goal against Real Oviedo. You know, he had to choose then, didn't he?

10:05Phil Kitromilides:But, little so-and-so. But I do think they will miss those two. But I actually think that at the moment, they won't miss Rodri. Or they don't miss Rodri. That's not quite the same thing. They genuinely don't. And Martin Thuby Mendy is sort of quietly carving out a space for himself. Not just in this team, but I think in many people's maybe sort of Elite 11 across Europe. Is this history repeating itself? Rodri would have played for Spain far, far earlier had it not been for the quality of Sergio Walsquets. And would Thuby Mendy, maybe this opportunity would have come sooner had it not been for having a player as good as Rodri ahead of him.

10:45Phil Kitromilides:And actually, perhaps the quality of the player ahead of him sort of didn't allow us to see this because players, however good they are, need to be on the pitch, need to be given that opportunity. And I think, I mean, I've always thought Fulby Mendy's a great player, but I will admit that he's turned out to be even better than I thought he would be. You're going to Spain against Turkey tomorrow? I am because, you know, it's not done yet. They could still lose 7-0 and not go through. I actually had an email from my editor today in the paper and he said, I know you're going. and we were thinking this would be a match report, but maybe don't worry about it.

11:16Phil Kitromilides:He said, maybe give the desk a shout if they're losing 7-0. And I said, look, I'll tell you what, let's play safe. I'll give them a shout if they're losing 5-0. Yes. I'll tell you early. I'll let you know. Yeah, so you're not expecting a busy night tomorrow. I'm not expecting to be giving anyone a shout, putting it that way. No. Okay. We'll see. We'll see what kind of team Luis de la Fuente feels tomorrow. Because, okay, they are technically through. but if you think about it, he really doesn't have that many games to prepare for the World Cup, does he? So this is important for him, even though Spade are all but mathematically qualified, he needs to use this game to continue the preparation.

11:53Phil Kitromilides:In March, they will have, probably they will have two games. At the moment, they know they've got one, which is the finalissimo against Argentina, which we don't know for sure. We don't know for sure yet, but we think it'll be played at Lucelle in Doha, in Qatar, which is where the World Cup final was played, which is a disappointment for me, of course, because it means almost certainly they won't be going, which is a pity. And then they will probably try and get another fixture for them. And I don't know what they'll go for. I don't know what they will think. That will be the last squad get-together before he names the squad.

12:21Phil Kitromilides:Now, they will be probably friendlies before the World Cup. I don't know what they'll choose. But by that point, their squad will have been named, I think. So that will be the last get-together. Intriguing stuff. All right, so Spain taking on Turkey tomorrow in Bayer Lid. and of course Sydney will be there to see. No, no, in Seville. In Seville. Oh, it's in Seville, sorry. It would be even easier. Yeah, yeah. It was Vydeleaf last time. I was in Vydeleaf against Bulgaria, I think. Yes, absolutely right. In Seville. Well, you know, it's a lovely, lovely city. Oh, it's a nice place to go, yeah. Yeah, good time of year to head down there as well.

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14:19New summer arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Get ready to save big with up to 60 % off brands like Rag & Bone, Levi's, Adidas, and Free People. join the naughty club to unlock exclusive discounts shop new arrivals first and more plus buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free great brands great prices that's why you rack okay if you if you haven't already joined us at patreon.com forward slash tssp why not it's just four euro 75 a month you get the monday and friday podcast advert free you get a q a podcast and a bonus podcast every week. And you get the TSFP diary every week as well if you're in that tier.

15:03The newsletter, the Discord. Oh, there's so much. There's so much going on, guys. And also, why not give the gift of TSFP at Christmas? Ah, yes. For that football fan in your life that thinks that they know a lot about Spanish football or wants to know more about European football, give the gift of TSFP at Christmas. Patreon.com forward slash cheers. that I mean that's just occurred to me now to say that we haven't had a sort of I like it no no

15:30Phil Kitromilides:festive marketing campaign exactly tearing open the rapper and seeing you we're just seeing a piece of paper saying patreon.com forward slash tsmp that's it anyway um just some thought we should do little action figures kitro action figures that'd be amazing yeah yeah yeah I'm up for it our merchandising hasn't gone amazingly in the past so maybe we need to up that yeah we've Yeah, we haven't been very good at that, have we? At all, no. All right, let's do some other stuff this week. Obviously, no La Liga. It's the international break, but there are still plenty of storylines for us to discuss.

16:06Not least, Sydney, finally, the return of Barcelona to the camp now. It's happening.

16:12Phil Kitromilides:Yep. Just a week after Messi went back, the rest of the players will go back too. That's the first line of your piece, isn't it? Yes. It's not because it's a news piece, but it's not because it's a news piece. I mean, if it was sort of a broader piece about the whole story, I mean, I think it might well be the way that I hang it when I actually do go back at the weekend. It is, however, the payoff piece. Leonel sneaked in this Sunday. 45 ,000 fans will be able to follow him. But anyway, there we go. It's quite exciting, actually, I must say. I mean, for all, I'm sort of a little bit, I feel almost slightly bad by the fact that so much of this story has been dominated.

16:52Phil Kitromilides:and I think rightly so, so I shouldn't feel too bad, by kind of missed deadlines and it's sort of not working out the way they wanted and, you know, they say they're going to be there and they're not and then they say again they're going to be there and they're not and they say again they're going to be there and they're not and they say that for every day that it's late, the company building the stadium will give them a million euros, which everyone's gone very quiet about ever since because if that really was true, they'd have made a fortune over this being late and it would be perfectly fine and they'd be able to go and buy, you know, Haaland or whatever.

17:19Phil Kitromilides:But there is a bit of it that thinks, yeah, I mean, that's kind of construction we all knew that construction was never going to get done in time it just sort of dozens and now for all of that sort of slightly cynical and and sort of you know slightly let's all laugh at this kind of attitude we've had including me and i you know i'm as guilty as most well not as guilty as most but i'm guilty like lots of people i think now i'm actually quite excited um i i have one doubt okay the footage and i want to see this obviously on on the weekend but it won't give me a definitive answer. The footage of the stadium when they did the open training session, what was it, 10 days ago now?

17:57Phil Kitromilides:It looked just like the old Camp Nou. I kind of thought, wow, you know, they've done a modern, better version of it. It still looks the same, that beautiful Barcelona blue sky, the steep stands, the kind of very sheer, the colours and everything. This looks like the Camp Nou should look. And then I thought, ah, but once the roof's on, now I'm not knocking having a roof, by the way. A roof is a good thing in a football stadium. but it is true that it might lose some of that character. So I'd like to see what it's finally finished with the roof on. I think it will mean that as a stadium, it's better.

18:25Phil Kitromilides:But as in terms of kind of maintaining that Camp Nou feel, it probably won't be quite the same. Well, it's not necessarily about maintaining the Camp Nou feel. No, it's not. Of course it's not. And I'm old fashioned. But, you know, for example, I see the Bernabeu. And for what it's worth, I think the Bernabeu is an absolute eyesore on the outside. I think it's a horrendously ugly stadium. But inside, it's completely brilliant. I mean that's you know everyone's got their taste you know yeah that's true there's no counting some of us just have better taste yeah well exactly listen sort of along the same no but just leaving aesthetics to one side sort of going along the same kind of um path that you were going down I think I mean Jean Laporte is many things right but to have undertaken this at this time and to have sort of got it over the line it's an incredible thing that he's done it's unbelievable i sort of take my hat off to him having also you know yeah no no absolutely where they've missed all these deadlines but really it's an unbelievable undertaking no and i would like to point out at this stage that in our serious moments over the last few years whenever we've talked in depth about barcelona's financial difficulties whenever we've talked about the levers whenever we've talked about the mechanics of building a squad we've always talked about how for all the bluster that Laporta does and he does a lot of it right he's he's he's a character he's ballsy he's I don't know if balls is the right word anymore but you know I mean he's kind of does that thing of chest out and kind of goes for it I think we've always talked about how the the whole thing of the palancas for example and the cost of this is enormous and obviously we won't know the full cost of all of the things that are happening until time passes and we see whether it worked out and we see whether or not that there are problems going down the track and and certainly you know there are elements of huge elements of Barcelona's finances that still concern and still you sort of wonder about but but I think we've always said that the the Palankas thing the thing about the Leavers was about trying to maintain a strong squad and trying to maintain a competitive team and knowing that actually there isn't a financial advantage in selling your best players because what you might gain in terms of savings on salaries and not spending money on transfers, you're probably losing somewhere else.

20:38Phil Kitromilides:And in a way, what he was saying is the whole point of the Plankers was, let's sell assets that aren't the assets that would actually destroy us by losing them. There's plenty of examples of teams that have sold their assets being their players, and it hasn't helped them in the slightest. That's true. That's true. That's true. I'm looking forward to it. I'm commentating the game this weekend, so it should be quite a huge occasion. just have a look at some of the prices for the tickets for the game are they very high high yeah very high they're very very very very very high um as you would expect uh i presume you'll be going to this uh i certainly have applied to go to this so let's hope let's hope that the uh that the press box is finished it'd be quite funny wouldn't it if they emailed back and said this will teach you for laughing at us over the years actually you know we've we've been able to open two-thirds of the stadium and only two-thirds of the press box and you're not getting in sunshine Yes, sorry Annoying loudmouth Englishman This weekend There was the NFL game at the Bernabeu The Washington What are they called?

21:44Commanders, aren't they? Commanders The Dolphins are still the Dolphins The Dolphins are still the Dolphins Anyway, the actual game itself And the scoreline is Lo de menos the Dolphins won in overtime but obviously this is kind of seeing the old question of her playing a game from a league in a different country resurface Javier Tebas using the opportunity to take to social media to say look look yes see what's happening you know they're playing a game in foreign soil we should be doing this and also criticizing Real Madrid

22:28Phil Kitromilides:Yeah, I mean, for what it's worth, I'll criticise Real Madrid because his point is that, you know, you hosted this, they give you loads of money, you're delighted about it, yet you're the ones banging on about competition integrity and so on and so forth. Now, I can see the argument on a superficial level that is being used here and I can understand it on a superficial level. Yeah, look, you were against it and now you're welcoming it. But I think actually it's really massively flawed as an argument. Because first of all, it implies that somehow it's the Spanish clubs, Spanish fans, Spanish media, everyone who was against going to Miami, which by the way, wasn't everyone.

23:01And in particular, Real Madrid, who have somehow made this happen.